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RobertoOrtiz
02-21-2007, 12:11 AM
The topic for the next mini challenge will be :
"Movie Stars"

More details soon.

-R

RobertoOrtiz
02-26-2007, 10:29 PM
To keep the momentum of the previous challenge, we will be posting the rules soon.


-R

robo3687
02-27-2007, 01:01 AM
sounds interesting roberto....

depending on the rules of this one i may have a go....and i hope there'll be no interruptions this time around to stop me from completing it.....

Pinoy McGee
02-28-2007, 07:30 PM
Dibs on Ron Jeremy :)

RobertoOrtiz
02-28-2007, 07:44 PM
Ok here are some preview of the rules:




The list of movies stars will be piscked from a list of
Movie stars from all eras (from the 20s to the present.
As in the previous challenge people will be able to do
Busts, Full Figures or Dioramas.
People Will be encouraged to do represenrtation of movie stars in their most famous roles…
Here are some examples from the listed celebrities:

Harrison Ford as Han Solo
Keanau Reeves as Neo
Clint Eastwood as the Man with no Name
John Wayne as a Cowboy
Bela Lugosi as Dracula
Boris Karloff as the Frankenstein Monster

A special cathegory will be established for caricatures (I am thinking of the work of Al Hirschfeld on this one).
-R

Rod Seffen
02-28-2007, 08:24 PM
I dunno, I think you really should keep it to modeling, rather than giving the diorama option. This is a hardcore modeling subforum after all. A diorama involves about 10% modeling.
I think grey-shaded models of famous faces should be able to stand in their own with no textures at all. That's a real modeling challenge.
Once you start adding in textures, shaders, putting them in a scene, dramatic lighting, etc, you can barely see the actual modeling any more.
Either that, or change the name of the sub-form to 'general CG challenge' or something, because it's really no longer a hardcore modeling challenge.

RobertoOrtiz
02-28-2007, 08:27 PM
Good points...
Ill keep them in mind as I write the rules.

-R

Puzzle3d
03-01-2007, 08:13 AM
I agree with Oddity on this one. A modeling challenge and a scene challenge are two different challenges. I'll still just be watching the show for this one(my skills just aint up to snuff yet).
The theme of "Movie Star" sounds like a good one. We'll get to see all kinds of models...Daffy Duck is a movie star....Aslan is a movie star, Clint Eastwood is a movie star....you get the idea. Wonder what that limits will be.
Good Luck and Good Skill to all and have fun creating.
Chris(Puzzle)Provine
aka Maullus
aka Taproot2

Keithtron
03-04-2007, 07:40 AM
Yeah, I'd have to agree with Oddity as well.

Maybe I'll get in on this as my first challenge. Time-permitting of course.

Diabolos
03-05-2007, 08:53 AM
I want to try NEO, I have this cool polystone statue with my collectors editon matrix dvd set, that would make a good reference for me - if that is allowed of course.


D,

SergioSantos
03-06-2007, 05:28 PM
I know which one I want to do...

Clancy Brown as "Kurgan", yeah!!!

lmancg
03-06-2007, 06:43 PM
I had fun and learned a lot from the last challenge. I like the Al Hirschfeld caricature idea. Hopefully I'll have time for this challenge. Can't wait for the rules!

SergioSantos
03-06-2007, 07:46 PM
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/placed/101405kurgan_02.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/tedhrtedhr/kurgan.jpg


Can we do different versions???
because both are so cool!!!

Dann-O
03-07-2007, 03:49 AM
I actually like the idea of polygon limits too. It makes it so those of us without ubersystems can compete on a level playing field. Brings to mind the celebrity head challenge at Subdivision modeling there was a limit of 8K polygons for a head. The rules for that could be a good model for the next challnege. Just my two cents.

Diabolos
03-07-2007, 07:17 AM
Nice choice Sergio! Next to Conan, one of my all time favorite movie characters.


D,

Wrench
03-07-2007, 12:01 PM
Any approximation on when we could see the rules and a starting date? This looks like its gonna be another interesting one.

BTW I have to agree with oDDity's comment about these modelling challenges, he makes a very valid point.

RobertoOrtiz
03-07-2007, 02:03 PM
Any approximation on when we could see the rules and a starting date? This looks like its gonna be another interesting one.

BTW I have to agree with oDDity's comment about these modelling challenges, he makes a very valid point.

We start the week after the results thread for the current mini challenge.
And oDDity's has a hell of a good point.
I am compiling the list based a lot on the suggestions on this thread, so keep em coming.
-R

SergioSantos
03-07-2007, 10:00 PM
The celebrity is in our choice or do we have a list?

RobertoOrtiz
03-08-2007, 01:13 AM
I'll post the list...

but relax

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/placed/101405kurgan_02.jpg

He will be on the list.

-R

SergioSantos
03-08-2007, 03:40 AM
I'll post the list...

but relax

He will be on the list.

-R

Excellent... (quoting Mr. Burns)

SinisterUrge
03-08-2007, 03:40 AM
I hope the predator and xenomorph will be included. Its too easy just making human characters

RobertoOrtiz
03-08-2007, 04:14 AM
I hope the predator and xenomorph will be included. Its too easy just making human characters

well for this challenge they will be out, but I do promise I will have them in a future challenge.

-R

Rod Seffen
03-08-2007, 08:21 AM
I hope the predator and xenomorph will be included. Its too easy just making human characters

Well, that depends how well you make them.
I haven't seen too many really good likenesses of people in 3d.
In a way it's easier to do those outrageous alien and monster types, since they're so generic and different, that getting a likeness is not even an issue, you just have to get it in the ballpark.
With an individual human, it has to be pretty damn accurate and subtle to succeed.
Doing 'an alien' can be harder than doing 'a human', but when you get down to the subtleties of an individual human, the difficulty starts, but that's rarely an issue with an alien, it's just 'an alien'.

AndreKling
03-08-2007, 08:38 AM
I think that the artist should be able to choose their own favourite artist, if he post the reference images for the real actor.. i dont get why should we be restricted to a specfic list.
If not, at least leave the role of the actor to the artist decision, for example Harrison Ford, he has alot of famous roles, and i dont see why everybody has to do the same one.
Andre

Rod Seffen
03-08-2007, 09:32 AM
This is where the diorama option make a difference. Doing Harrison Ford in Star Wars, or Bladerunner, or Indiana Jones makes a dig difference for a diorama, but for just a grey shaded bust of the man, it doesn't make much difference which role you choose.
However, I think doing a diorama is really going too far for a fun model challenges such as these, it's too much work for a start, and people only have some spare time to put into this.
You have to decide whether this challenge should be to model a good likeness of Harrison Ford, or model the set of Star Wars.

AndreKling
03-08-2007, 10:08 AM
Not quite, for example harrison ford, when he did blade runner, or star wars he was much younger than he was when he did the fugitive. It makes for a huge difference on facial feature the age of the person.. not only the age, but also hair, fat and so far.
Andre

SinisterUrge
03-08-2007, 10:22 AM
All you need really for this is a premade model of a male head and body which all professionals have in there library. This gives them a hugh advantage, that's why I want aliens and cartoon characters to be included in the list.

SergioSantos
03-08-2007, 01:43 PM
Suggestions:

movies:

Madmax
Highlander
The princess bride
Labyrinth
Legend
Interview with the vampire
Lord of the rings
Back to the future
The Goonies
Ben-Hur
Excalibur
Bettle Juice
Edward scissorhands
Planet of Apes
Raging Bull
V
BeastMaster
Ladyhawk
.
.
.

this is almost neverending



actors:

Ian McKellen
Johnny Dept
Tom Cruise
Brad Pitt
Kirsten Dunst
David Bowie
Robert De Niro
Sean Penn
Al Pacino
Sylvester Stallone
Vin Diesel
Kurt Russell
.
.
.

This list can be so huge...

RobertoOrtiz
03-08-2007, 02:43 PM
All you need really for this is a premade model of a male head and body which all professionals have in there library. This gives them a hugh advantage, that's why I want aliens and cartoon characters to be included in the list.

Ok you have a point, Ill think about it.

To avoid premade and parametric models on this mini-challenge we will be more strict about posting WIP. People will have to start from scratch, and they will have to post their progress in every stage of the sculting process.
If they dont they will not get into the voting thread.

oDDity said it best:
Well, that depends how well you make them.
I haven't seen too many really good likenesses of people in 3d.
In a way it's easier to do those outrageous alien and monster types, since they're so generic and different, that getting a likeness is not even an issue, you just have to get it in the ballpark.
With an individual human, it has to be pretty damn accurate and subtle to succeed.
Doing 'an alien' can be harder than doing 'a human', but when you get down to the subtleties of an individual human, the difficulty starts, but that's rarely an issue with an alien, it's just 'an alien'.

AndreKling
03-08-2007, 03:08 PM
I dont think that someone using a pre made model as the base mesh has that a big of an advantage... sure it cuts a few hours of work, but what really matters is the final image, and if the artist used a box, a sphere or a basic shape to start with doesnt really matters.
I have to say that beign this a modelling challenge, if the artsit used a basic face to start with and changed the entire model to achieve the likeness needed for the challenge, doensnt really matters... for the skill is in the process of making face ¨A¨ looks like face ¨B¨.

For a training perspective, i do believe that everybody should do the entire model, and since this comps are just to make us better artists, it should be on the artist decision to use or not a pre made model.


Just my opinion
Andre

John-S
03-08-2007, 05:27 PM
I don't want to sound arguementative here and I realize I don't have much a place to talk since I've never entered a challenge here yet (not fast or good enough...maybe if I had ZBrush or mudbox...LOL) but I think using your own base mesh should never be allowed.

This is a HARDCORE MODELING CHALLENGE that already seems like a hardcore texturing challenge... if you allow premade models then whats to stop the Poser users coming in with thier Poser models claiming they are a 3D Artist waiting for the Hardcore Modeling session.

IMO this challenge should be about Hardcore Modeling. Not painting, textures and backgrounds. Thats all bonus stuff it seems unless they changed the name to Hardcore 3D Challenges or something....

Personally I would enter even at my own skill level if the voting came down to hardcore modeling from scratch (since I don't think its hardcore otherwise...), Best Topology, Most Detailed Model, etc. WITH A POLYLIMIT and No texture maps etc. ZBrush and Mud can be used but only for concept. After that the model needs to be re-worked for topology in another app. This way its true... Hardcore Modeling. (not that using your own premade models in day to day life is bad or anything...)

Just My Cents : )

(don't get me wrong. The challenge is odviously excellent as is... Look at all the awesome entrees we have gotten here over time. Its been alot of fun to watch thats for sure!)

Cough, Cough... Screensaver... Cough. Sorry, its kind of breezy in here : )

Rod Seffen
03-08-2007, 05:42 PM
All you need really for this is a premade model of a male head and body which all professionals have in there library. This gives them a hugh advantage, that's why I want aliens and cartoon characters to be included in the list.
Well, it's obvious you don't know much about the process.
Making a low resolution generic head template is the work of an hour for a professional anyway, but working that up into a high res model or sculpt of an individual is where all the actual skill and effort lies.
I'd be quite happy for Roberto to supply a low res generic head mesh which everyone has to start from, if you think that's fairer, but it won't make it any easier for novices, because if you have trouble just making a low res generic head mesh for yourself, then you'll have no chance of doing a good job on a high res portrait mesh anyway.

John-S
03-08-2007, 05:48 PM
a decent low-res model is a matter of several days work for me : (

AndreKling
03-08-2007, 06:18 PM
About the poser thing, well if the person using it can modify the poser model in order to look like robert deniro or any other of the actors list, for sure he is an artist and should be very welcomed in here.
Stating a polycount budget, well dont really see a reason, honestly. If this were a game enviroment for sure, but this is a modelling comp no reasons for limiting the artist. About topology, well today its becoming easier to retopologize a model.
To be quite honest, i dont even know y this should be a cg-only thread anyway, would be awesome to see some real sculptures in here.
Andre

John-S
03-08-2007, 07:00 PM
I don't know. To be honest it seems as though ZBrush and Mud have really changed things quite a bit. The only reason I stated to have a poly limit is not for games but to make it more fair to the people with slow computers and no ZBrush. Without textures or polylimit it is really tough for a person who models in Silo to go up against someone who is modeling in mudbox (detail wise). One is straite out sculpting and the other is poly for poly modeling. And although it is easier to retopolize a model, a poly limit and judging on use of topology makes this a little more balanced I would think for the Mudbox artist vs the Modo artist etc.
To be quite honest, i dont even know y this should be a cg-only thread anyway, would be awesome to see some real sculptures in here.
Well, its "CG Society" and a "Hardcore Modeling" Thread...

Call me biased but poser is a previz, animation, render and storyboard app to me. I have it on my computer and although it is hard to achieve photorealistic results etc, it's too barbie and ken to be in a hardcore modeling challenge on CG Society to me. Your using other peoples base models... how is that cool vs the people that are creating from scratch? Seems like the challenge is geared towards starting from scratch (at least by reading roberto's last post...)

AndreKling
03-08-2007, 08:08 PM
Yeah, english is not my main language, so i guessed that modelling was related to the craft of model something... being it made of clay, stone, or polygons.
The fact of this forum be called cgsociety doesnt mean that much, for if you go to any of the 2d subforums you will see alot of scanned drawings.

About the app-thing, i dont see a reason in limiting things, what really matters is the feedback you get and what you learn from this comps. I mean if the real cgsociety comps with sponsors doesnt care for this kind of concern, why should a comp that is just for learning pruposes be limiting?
And apps doesnt tell anything, if the artist is a monster in poser ( higly doubtfull ) y limit him to participate? Besides you can allways get a demo version of mud or zb, also i heard that blender now has a tool similar to zb.
Anyway, this is a robertos decision, we are just giving him different point of views that may help him to decide.
Andre

John-S
03-08-2007, 08:20 PM
agreed. Its good to hear everyones opinions I'm sure : )

Mudbox isn't on the mac and the ZBrush demo is too restrictive.

I downloaded Blender the other day and although I praise everyone who is working hard on it, the software just isn't for me. Maybe when they update the interface I'll try again...

SergioSantos
03-08-2007, 08:43 PM
guys... I think the trees don't let you see the forest...

I made a bear recently and the base mesh took me about one hour, modelling and UVs.
It was just a box with a couple of extrudes for legs, head, jaw, ears, paws and tail.
I sculpted from the muscles to the fur in a few hours and I also textured it in a few hours (well, it's just fur).


For my Talos entry I only expent around 15 hours. I think the base mesh took me around 1 hr as well.


If I could use a already model base mesh I would save 1 hr... well, it's not a big deal, I can expend one hour more in the challenge.


If you are a newbie you can learn from the rest, or maybe you are good but you see something that you didn't know.
I really don't think that premade models are going to make a better entry for anyone.

about the app...

use whatever you want, whatever makes you feel confortable.
max, maya, xsi...

"but I don't have ZBrush or Mudbox"... and what?
use silo, blender or whatever, but remember

application doesn't make the artist, the artist produce artwork with whatever he/she has in his/her hands.

don't worry about this things and have fun with the challenge, I did.

John-S
03-08-2007, 09:08 PM
A person using poser can come out with a mesh in a quarter of the time it takes someone to actually build a mesh.

A person using ZBrush or Mudbox can sculpt in details in a fraction of the time as it takes somebody who is modeling the topology split poly by split poly.

Am I wrong?

Yes, the app doesn't make the artist but it sure can provide a giant shortcut. Wouldn't it have been alot harder to achieve what all these entree's did without the use of ZBrush or Mudbox?
(don't get me wrong. I want ZBrush and Mudbox to stay in the compo for sure)

I just think it would be cool to stip away textures, shaders etc for one of the challenges and see what kind of crazy hardcore modeling of topology we can get while maintaining good topology. (meaning modeling details etc.)

Oh well, Excellent entry SergioSantos!
(if I haven't said it already. It was one of my favorites!)

SergioSantos
03-08-2007, 09:29 PM
of course there are faster ways, but

if one day a procedural model made with poser in 15 min is better than one model made by an artist in hours and hours then... say goodbye to the art dude

Thanks for the comment about my entry :thumbsup:

morphius-ms
03-09-2007, 05:25 AM
hey guys I have read all the entries and I want to give my 2-cents.

I have seen this arguement before in the modeling forum on CGsociety as well.

I think that building the base mesh is the best way for anyone (novice or not). For a few reasons. yes you can buy, or recieve, a base mesh but then you will spend alot of time "pixel pushing" or in our case verticies. if you build the base mesh yourself you can put the nose, the mouth, the major curves, the major creases and plan for the details as you create the base mesh yourself. The thing is is that if you don't practice making a base mesh or building peoples heads (or whatever you are going to be making) you are not gonna get any better at doing that. Which means that when you get into the industry and they don't want you to use some premade model and you have to make the base mesh then it will still take you a day, or 5 hours, or how everlong it took you before maybe even longer because you didn't practice it.

As for Poser I have mixed emotions about poser, I believe it has its uses like storyboarding, making basic models for animatics, and stuff like that. Just like Vue has its purposes, but I believe that, the basics is where it all lies, where you are going to be gaining skills. Though once you get into the details it becomes a whole different story.

John-S if you don't have Zbrush, or if you don't have Mud, or Maya, or 3ds Max, or anything like that. I believe it shouldn't matter, you should do the best that you can with what you have(I know Sergio said this before), but I would think that if you are looking for a job, the recruiter should think to him(or her)self and say "Wow look at what he/she did in ... (blender for example, or maya, or 3ds max) think of what he/she could do if they have Zbrush, or Mud, or ... see what I'm getting at.

These are my 2-cents. Though I really shouldn't say it because I haven't practiced recently but I am going to start as soon as I can.

Now as for the next challenge:

I think that making a representation of an actor or actress would be a great idea (don't know why I haven't thought of it before). but honestly (and this is all the way from the first few posts, and just what I think don't really put any stock into it) When I think of harrison ford, I think of indiana jones not han solo, though that's just me.

I'm not sure who I would do, maybe you could make a list of actors or actresses and then we could choose a role to create them in. Like for example you could list Tom Cruise and then we would pick like Lestat from interview with a vampire, or his character from the last samurai, or ...

or you could list Denzel Washington, and we would chose his characters like John Q, or his character from man on fire, or his character from training day, or ...

or you could make the challenge just one star(meaning only one actor or actress), and we would chose the character from his or her movie resume.

just my 2cents

Diabolos
03-09-2007, 07:23 AM
I do not understand the whole confusion here, normally these debates sprout up when there are prizes involved, but this is for fun and practice. It is fun for me a beginner to model and "compete" with the advanced/skilled (the rest of you), and I look forward to your comments and crits. I have never done a "lifelike" portrait before, and I am curious if I can even do it (you guys are so picky and want every exact wrinkle - which is perfect, that is how it should be), so I am excited to start. You can see my small online gallery here if you want: http://diabolosgermany.spaces.live.com/ see no portraits......

I personally:


would not like to have a base mesh, as I want to see if I can do this on my own and get your tips/help/crits from the beginning. (.obj's never work out for me anyway)
do not mind working from a list.
would like to see the actors in their "Costume/Garb" (who wants to see just Clancy Brown w/o hollywood magic)
would like to see a final clay, wire, and textured rendered model as requirements. Judging could be based off of the wire and clay.
am ready to get started.
wonder if Robert gets any sleep and a massive care package from CGSociety every month for his time and effort here.

D,

AndreKling
03-09-2007, 08:45 AM
What i think is that the point is not if the person uses a base mesh or not. the point is if the rules states that using it is not allowed. For sure that for most ppl building a base mesh is the best way to go ( for me is aswell ), but i dont think this should be mandatory and stated in the rules, for i believe that the base mesh is like 5% of the work, and start to restricting too much the rules may eventually scare more ppl to participate on this challenges.
Keep the rules simple, and lets have fun. after all this topics are voted by users like us, and if the artist decided by using a base mesh, you as a judge may think it has less value than a person who built it entirely from scrath ( or didnt use a sculpting package ), but leave the artist participate on the forum and learn with the process.
andre

grrinc
03-09-2007, 09:10 PM
Agreed with AndreKling. Allow the use of premade base meshes and sculpting apps, and let the voters decide if this is a good or bad thing.


Personally, I can get a base mesh up in and hour or so, so I would do it regardless, but I wouldn't hold it against any other participant should they choose to use a premade one. However, I would mark against sculpting. But this just me.

SergioSantos
03-09-2007, 09:38 PM
My opinion...

I don't care about premade models
I don't care about app

I sometimes use models that I've done before, but I use brushes that I've done before and I use alphas and scripts... I don't create EVERYTHING for the actual model and then throw away all to start again from scratch in the new model. For the same reason I don't redo my UI, but sometimes I change something if I think I can get some speed with that change.

premade assets are useful and if you are a newbie is a good time to start build your assets, and with assets I mean alphas, brushes, scripts, actions... even simple base meshes (which I find them as homemade primitives)

so...

make the rules, I don't care about these issues.

about topology...
I don't see the point to judge good topology, if somebody is not capable of make a good topology then his model will be a crap anyway, no reason to judge the topology, just if the model is good or not.


If I like the theme of the challenge and rules are reasonable then I'll join.

John-S
03-09-2007, 09:49 PM
I say, mudbox hurry up and make a mac version so I can buy it and join these challenges (no matter what the rules) with my new pipeline : )

(not that there is a make pretty button but when you see all these entrees it makes you jealous you don't have it...)

:cool:

Ps. If any base model pieces are ever provided please let it be the ear...LOL.

SantoAnderson
03-10-2007, 07:00 AM
I say if you're going to do a diorama, it should be entirely secondary. The official entry should just be a straight up grayscale lambert with a couple lights on it. Now if you're one of those picky dudes who works towards a goal of having it textured, lit, rendered, composited, framed, printed, etc... fine, maybe that goal will improve your final model.
I know there are times when I take a character that I've spent days building and texturing, I remove the custom mats and simply apply a gray phong and I find that there are lots of little details in the model that wouldn't exist had I not played around with the texturing, displacement maps, lighting, etc. They subliminally affect the model's geometry.
Maybe it's because when I apply that final texture map I do feel that sense of completion, whereas when I just build a character's geometry and forget the texturing I start feeling very picky. I feel like I still need to keep toying around with him because he isn't finished.
Secondary stuff shouldn't mean extra credit, a pretty good texture map can turn a crappy nurbish model into something believable. On the flip side, someone who's the absolute Picasso of modeling but has the lighting skills of a kindergartner, might do some crappy diorama piece which could reflect negatively on a purely awesome model.
The model should be for the competition, the dioramas should be for your portfolio.

Rod Seffen
03-10-2007, 10:06 AM
I say, mudbox hurry up and make a mac version so I can buy it and join these challenges (no matter what the rules) with my new pipeline : )

(not that there is a make pretty button but when you see all these entrees it makes you jealous you don't have it...)


There's no magic contained in mudbox. My entry for the first challenge 'The David' was done entirely with subdiv's in Lightwave.
Mudbox or zbrush do speed things up somewhat for organic modeling, but that's all, if you haven't got the knowledge to depict your subject using polygons, then you won't be able to sculpt it in mudbox either.

RobertoOrtiz
03-10-2007, 01:43 PM
Guys keep em coming.

Ill be posting the results thread this weekend.
To keep the momentum going I will post the new challenge pretty soon after that.

-R

John-S
03-10-2007, 04:57 PM
There's no magic contained in mudbox. My entry for the first challenge 'The David' was done entirely with subdiv's in Lightwave.
Mudbox or zbrush do speed things up somewhat for organic modeling, but that's all, if you haven't got the knowledge to depict your subject using polygons, then you won't be able to sculpt it in mudbox either.
Yes, I agree. I am just too slow at creating detailed meshes pushing polygons with no concept art. I am hoping that mudbox will help me to create a concept quicker and then retopolize with good topology etc. I was also thinking that by the time mudbox or zbrush 3 come out on the mac I will be a bit better and able to join the challenges. As it stands I'm just too slow with not enough free time to finish a model in the given time. If only I was faster...

As for challenges... your favorite comic adaptation would be cool some time : )

grrinc
03-10-2007, 07:01 PM
John-S me old buddy. I think you are underestimating your own skills my freind. Your bat model had some excellent modelling and topology stuff going on there. And dont forget that Maya is excellent if you want to retopo a model. I reckon you ought to give it a crack. If it is to be an actor or film character, then you will have tons of reference available.

See you on the other side !!

John-S
03-10-2007, 07:08 PM
Thanks for the kind words grrinc : )

Although I'm sure you would probably agree about my speed of completing things : (
(thats the main reason I'm not able to do the challenge)

willbrown
03-12-2007, 01:20 PM
Just to chime in on a few things.

I agree that we should start from scratch, Everytime I've sculpted a human figure or head from scratch. I've LEARNED a lot. That's the point to the exercise for me.

I've been a working-pro traditional and digital artist for over 38 years. I've painted hundreds of portraits. I consider myself the eternal novice. I always learn something new from each work that I do. Every face is different. It takes a LOT OF PRACTICE to achieve a likeness in paint, clay or 3D CG. Everybody participating in this challenge can learn and grow, and learn from each other.

I'm a very production minded worker, and I cannibalize everything, that's the beauty of digital. But the possibility of improving my skills makes this challenge worthwhile. Repitition and drill are the best ways to get good and fast at making art.

I think there should be no restriction on app. Poser models should not be allowed. I've seen some amazing things done with Poser. But this IS a modeling challenge, not a manipulate the morphs challenge.

As to polycount I disagree with restricting the polycount. I am not interested in producing a game mesh. I tend to base model at low resolution anyway in Silo, and do my subd work in ZBrush. I consider this a sculpting challenge also and restricting the use of tools like ZBrush, Mudbox or Modo will take the fun out of it for me.

I agree topology should not be a judging criteria. I've seen a lot of different thoughts regarding "best" topology. Who really can determine that? Who cares?

The model should be judged on the basis of whether it is an accurate likeness or not.

Dann-O
03-12-2007, 02:15 PM
One of the things about using an app like mudbox or Z brush it is great, but I know I will catch hell and be disqualified if I go make an old fasioned displacement map in photoshop to do the same thing. My computer is just not up to the task of the sculpting tools. When it is I might think different but right now just beyond the scope of what I can do.

jojo1975
03-12-2007, 06:41 PM
Agree with oddity... modelling challenge is not scene challenge. texture influence too much in my opinion

Ashford_Butler
03-12-2007, 10:47 PM
Sounds like a great idea, but I would like to know if people will use their own base mesh or use
scripts like face maker or a provided mesh?

RobertoOrtiz
03-12-2007, 11:00 PM
Ok I just want to make two things clear.

We will do all entries in this forum from scratch.
All 3D modelling apps can be used, as long it is not a parametric program
(Poser I am looking at thee)
We need ideas for Iconic HUMAN characters, so post your list.


-R

John-S
03-13-2007, 12:28 AM
Its hard to tell what your looking for. Probably way off but here is a variety (mostly more recent):

Rambo
Johnny Depp > Pirates or Scissorhands etc
Matrix Characters
Star Wars Characters > Evil Anakin etc
Indiana Jones
Xmen or Super Hero's
Al Pacino
Bruce Willis > lots of movies. I was kind of thinking the unbreakable character with the hood
Denzel, Sylvester or Will Smith in thier boxing roles
Edward Norton (nuff said)
Kate Winslet
Sir Sean Connery (King Arthur etc.)
Jack Nicholson (as good as it gets, batman etc)
Kierra Knightly (King Arthur, pirates etc)
Robin Williams (Mrs Doubtfire)
Cuba Gooding Jr.

Older acters:
Marilyn Monroe
Lucille Ball
Jackie Gleason
Audrey Hepburn
Fonzie
Howard Hughes (if he was an actor?)

I think you are looking for more action role types other then classic tv shows etc though. I'm not sure so I just started listing people off the top of my head. Where you looking for actors or characters? Are comics ok?

Rod Seffen
03-13-2007, 01:04 AM
Ok then Roberto, you'll have to have a strict policy on regular wip images then.
I mean wip images of the construction of the actual base mesh, but even that won't work, since I have my basic head templates I tweak, and I could simply hide some polys on them, take a screengrab as I unhide some of them and pretend I made it specially for this)
The only solution is to record a video of making the model from scratch to prove you didn't use a generic template for the base.
As said, I have no problem with people using a generic base mesh as a starting point, since it's common practice for professionals to do so (building a base mesh for a head is as boring for me as uv mapping used to be, I just want to get on with the real modeling) and it only constitutes about 5% of the work and skill needed to produce an accurate portrait anyway.
It's just mechanical auto pilot work for me.
Of course, for those who need the practice of building head base meshes, then by all means that's what you should be doing.

John-S
03-13-2007, 04:58 AM
Ok then Roberto, you'll have to have a strict policy on regular wip images then.
I mean wip images of the construction of the actual base mesh, but even that won't work, since I have my basic head templates I tweak, and I could simply hide some polys on them, take a screengrab as I unhide some of them and pretend I made it specially for this)
The only solution is to record a video of making the model from scratch to prove you didn't use a generic template for the base.
Recording a video might be a little much. There has to be a bit of trust that goes into these challenges...

morphius-ms
03-13-2007, 07:05 AM
Recording a video might be a little much. There has to be a bit of trust that goes into these challenges...

I agree building a video would be pushing a little over board...

As for what oddity said, I understand that building a template model may cut down some time. and that there are ways around the rules but then again wouldn't it show in the WIPs? I mean in one screen cap you have generic eyes, and then in the next the eyes are drastically different. or the nose is a generic size nose and then the nose would drastically change.

I think that stills would be enough of for these challenges.

PS if you guys want some good head building tutorials there are quite a few. From previous hardcore modeling challenges I remember it saying that using tutorials was allowed you just can't use a tutorial that features that model.

AndreKling
03-13-2007, 12:35 PM
As for what oddity said, I understand that building a template model may cut down some time. and that there are ways around the rules but then again wouldn't it show in the WIPs? I mean in one screen cap you have generic eyes, and then in the next the eyes are drastically different. or the nose is a generic size nose and then the nose would drastically change.

Not necessary, a modeller could build a basic shape in order to get the volume b4 start to get into details... honestly there is no way to know if someone used or not a starting mesh, you hv to trust in the artist ( same thing goes for shaders and so on ), but really this doesnt matter cuz we only vote on the final image, and in order to get into the final image, there is alot of work involved.
I really doubt that all the people that vote on the challenge will look throuh all the wip threads, they will do only based on the orthos and the final image.
Another thing is the final image, will be a restriction on how the final image should be displayed? for example all models must be showed in a 3/4 view, with 3 omnis light, or will a basic light and camera set up be given for us? the reason i ask is that light and camera angles can influence the votting as much as a texture can.

I really think that this contest should be more about having fun and learning than too much restrictions involved, if the artsit wants to give the model texture, i dont see why not let him do it.

Andre

RobertoOrtiz
03-13-2007, 12:45 PM
Recording a video might be a little much. There has to be a bit of trust that goes into these challenges...
Amen to that....

Anyway, the rules will come up sometime this week. So please keep posting your lists of Movie Icons.



-R

AndreKling
03-13-2007, 01:22 PM
Ben Hur
James Bond ( all versions )
Willian Wallace
Gladiator ( and the emperor )
Mad Max
Cat Woman ( from Batman returns )
Super Man
Rocky
the doctor form Back to the Future
Mr Miaguy
The Mariaty ( desperado )
any one from Pulp Fiction
Kill Bill ( uma turman )
Jack Nickolson ( the shining )

Star-Scream
03-13-2007, 03:47 PM
Jaws - Roy Scheider...Richard Dreyfuss

Poltergeist 1 and 2 - Craig T. Nelson...Heather O'Rourke...and the old guy of Poltergeist 2

GQ1
03-13-2007, 04:27 PM
These are my suggestion for the actor list.


Morgan Freeman

Humphrey Bogart

Peter Sellers

Yul Brynner

Yvonne De Carlo

Fred Gwynne

Omar Sharif

Charlton Heston

Vincent Price

Christopher Lee

Wesley Snipes

Robert Deniro

Ricardo Montalban

Aaliyah

Peter O'Toole

Alec Guinness

Anthony Quinn

José Ferrer

Brandon Lee

Charles Bronson

jojo1975
03-13-2007, 04:47 PM
Movie Icon

Harrison Ford (Han solo/Indiana Jones/ Deckard)
Johnny Depp
Mel Gibson (Mad Max !!)

Marylin

MisterE
03-13-2007, 05:09 PM
Here's my compiled list. Wow! Hopefully I didn't miss anyone, lol!

Asian actors:
Noriyuki "Pat" Morita,
Ken Watanabe,
Toshiro Mifune,
Takeshi Kitano,
Jackie Chan,
Brandon Lee (The Crow),
Zhan Ziyi

Veteran or Deceased actors:
Marlon Brando,
Walter Matheau,
Jack Lemmons,
Peter Cushing,
Boris Karloff,
Bela Lugosi,
Christopher Lee,
Ian Holm,
Ian McKellan


Comedies/Comedians:
Michael J. Fox,
Chevy Chase,
Dan Akroyd,
Robert DeNiro,
James Belushi,
John Belushi


Actors:
Tom Cruise,
Brad Pitt,
George Clooney,
Denzel Washington,
Tim Robbins,
Peter Weller (RoboCop),
Christopher Reeve,
Bill Murray,
Mel Gibson,
John Travolta,
Benicio Del Toro,
Michael Clarke Duncan,
Ving Rhames,
Clive Owen,
Michael Madsen,
Elijah Wood,
Samuel L. Jackson,
David Morse,
Gary Oldman,
Chris Rock,
Jackie Chan,
Billy Bob Thornton,
Ben Affleck,
Steve Buscemi,
Ewan McGregor,
Sean Bean,
Cilian Murphy (28 Days Later, Batman)

Actresses:
Cate Blanchet,
Dakota Fanning,
Jessica Alba,
Rosario Dawson,
Alicia Silverstone,
Brittany Murphy,
Uma Thurman,
Judi Dench,
Julia Roberts,
Cameron Diaz,
Drew Barrymore,
Whoopi Goldberg,
Halle Berry,
Natalie Portman,
Kirsten Dunst,
Sally Field,
Glenn Close,
Nicole Kidman,
Meryl Streep,
Sandra Bullock

Jaspar
03-13-2007, 05:15 PM
I'd imagine most of these have been mentioned but...

Jeff Bridges (The Dude)
Milla Jovovich
Gary Oldman
Eva Mendez (Mmmmmm)
Malcolm McDowell
Peter O'Toole
Orson Welles
Rutger Hauer
John Malkovich
Jackie Chan

AndreKling
03-13-2007, 06:23 PM
Bruce lee
The ghostbusters
Slot or any of the kids from goones
Tom Hanks ( Forest Gump )
Conan
gerard depardieu
norman bates (ms bates for a twist)

I dont know if the list should be only from actors and actress or we should suggest directors aswell, since they are quite famous like, Peter Jackson, Steven Spilberg, James Cameron, Quentin Tarantino...

SantoAnderson
03-13-2007, 09:41 PM
Is there really going to be an "official" list or wouldn't it just be sufficient for the entrant to post a topic saying, for instance, "I plan to model Tom Hanks as Forrest Gump." And then simply wait for approval?

Diabolos
03-14-2007, 07:40 AM
kristen kreuk

looks like the rest of you covered the majority of them - thats one heck of a list.

D,

cjewell
03-14-2007, 03:30 PM
The list looks good...Here's a couple:

Christopher Walken

Robert Luthgow

Kevin Spacey

Rutger Hauer

Timothy Olyphant

Ian McShane

Powers Booth

William Sanderson

Robin Williams

lmancg
03-14-2007, 06:09 PM
Wow, all the good ones have been mentioned already. How about these:
James Earl Jones
George Lucas
Patrick Stewart
William Shatner
Leo DiCaprio
Kurt Russell
Alec Baldwin
Terence Stamp
Lynda Carter
Margaret Hamilton (as the Wicked Witch of the West)
Judy Garland
Cassandra Peterson (as Elvira)
Salma Hayek
Scarlett Johansson
America Ferrera (sorry, the current issue of EW is on my desk)

The ones that have been mentioned already that I wouldn't mind repeating:
Bruce Lee
Marlon Brando
Christopher Walken
Christopher Lee
Christopher Reeve
Ian McKellen
Jack Nicholson
Steven Spielberg
Jackie Chan
Marilyn Monroe
Lucille Ball
Audrey Hepburn
Henry Winkler (Fonzie)
Tim Robbins
Morgan Freeman

I can go on and on but I'll stop for now.

willbrown
03-14-2007, 07:49 PM
Short list:


Sean Connery
Leonard Nimoy
Bill Shatner
Eli Wallach

Vivian Leigh
Clark Gable
Peter Lorre
Errol Flynn
Basil Rathbone

KrakenCMT
03-14-2007, 08:47 PM
What about my man Ron Perlman?! His mug is just beggin' for it!

Doch
03-14-2007, 08:49 PM
can wait to this challage to start .

I don't think using a base mesh or not using a base mesh is so critic here
a pro will do it in one hour and continue on . and for a novice it will be much more
easier to start with ,
so... I don't think there should be a ristriction on that .
and this challage suppose to be fun . so just lets have fun .

with all the superstar list , all we need now is a starting date to this challage and an End date .

Happy modeling folks !

morphius-ms
03-15-2007, 05:27 AM
I realize that this should be dropped, but I want to say something in response to what andrekling said.

Not necessary, a modeller could build a basic shape in order to get the volume b4 start to get into details... honestly there is no way to know if someone used or not a starting mesh, you hv to trust in the artist ( same thing goes for shaders and so on ), but really this doesnt matter cuz we only vote on the final image, and in order to get into the final image, there is alot of work involved.
I really doubt that all the people that vote on the challenge will look throuh all the wip threads, they will do only based on the orthos and the final image.
Another thing is the final image, will be a restriction on how the final image should be displayed? for example all models must be showed in a 3/4 view, with 3 omnis light, or will a basic light and camera set up be given for us? the reason i ask is that light and camera angles can influence the votting as much as a texture can.

I really think that this contest should be more about having fun and learning than too much restrictions involved, if the artsit wants to give the model texture, i dont see why not let him do it.

Andre

I understand what you are saying about the restrictions. But the fact of the matter is is that building a video of the modeling process makes this like prison, this is supposed to be a free challenge so I think that WIPs would be the best in this case... atleast with WIPs the person can get help when they need it, or critique about a certain section that they are working on before moving on.

About the texture thing. I believe that this forum is to focus on the modeling. So I believe that the voting should be on untextured models.

Now on to the comprimise. What do you say we have two different categories, and then the modeler that textured his/her model could enter both, and the one that only has time to model (or is not that good at texturing, or are just lazy) could only enter one. The two categories could be Model Textured, and Model Flat Shade.

This way the ones that want to texture theirs wouldn't be wasting their time texturing their models (though technically they wouldn't be wasting their time anyway) for this challenge. and the ones that really can't focus too much on texturing wouldn't be left behind.

What do you think of that?

Oh and the lighting I believe that camera angle shouldn't be restricted and lighting should only be dome light, to show off the model. but that is just me.

my 2 cents (if your counting I've put in 6 cents so far... lol.... that was a joke)

morphius-ms
03-15-2007, 05:45 AM
OOPS forgot my list:

I'm not sure if any of these as been said before. Oh and I didn't look up the spelling so if I misspell them sorry.

Matrix:
Keanau Reeves
Lawerence Fishburn

Asian Actors:
Jet Li
Chow Young Fat

Mel Brooks Films:
Gene Wilder
Mel Brooks
John Candy
Lord Helmet (can't remember the actors name)


Misc Actors:
Chris Farley
Johnny Depp (various roles)
Christina Ricci
Angelina Jolie
Veggo Mortenson

Batman Begins:
Christian Bale
Morgan Freeman
Micheal Cain
Gary Oldman


V for Vendetta
"V" (not necessarily an actor but the character would be a nice model)

Scarlett Johansson
Hugh Jackman
Edward Norton
Mel Gibbson
Danny Glover
Al Pacino
Nicholas Cage
John Travolta
James Bond (any of them)
Robert De Niro
Anthony Hopkins
Sean Connery

Underworld
Kate Beckinsale
Michael Sheen (this one would be challenging)
Bill Nighy (Viktor, or davvy jones from Pirates)

There are so many to choose from.

Diabolos
03-15-2007, 07:13 AM
Lord Helmet (can't remember the actors name)


:wise: how could you forget Rick Moranis

1976 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976): Second City TV [Fernsehserie]
1983 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983): Zwei Superflaschen räumen auf
1984 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984): The Wild Life
1984 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984): Straßen in Flammen (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra%C3%9Fen_in_Flammen)
1984 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984): Ghostbusters (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters) - Die Geisterjäger
1985 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985): Männer für jeden Job
1985 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985): Zum Teufel mit den Kohlen (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zum_Teufel_mit_den_Kohlen) (Brewster's Millions)
1986 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986): Club Paradise
1986 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986): Der kleine Horrorladen (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_kleine_Horrorladen_%281986%29)
1987 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987): Spaceballs (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceballs)
1989 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989): Liebling, ich habe die Kinder geschrumpft (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebling%2C_ich_habe_die_Kinder_geschrumpft_%28Film%29) (Honey, I Shrunk the Kids)
1989 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989): Eine Wahnsinnsfamilie (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eine_Wahnsinnsfamilie) (Parenthood)
1989 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989): Ghostbusters 2 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters_2)
1990 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990): L.A. Story (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.A._Story)
1990 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990): My Blue Heaven (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Blue_Heaven)
1992 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992): Liebling, jetzt haben wir ein Riesenbaby
1993 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993): Und ewig schleichen die Erben (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Und_ewig_schleichen_die_Erben)
1994 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994): Kleine Giganten (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleine_Giganten) (Little Giants)
1994 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994): Flintstones – Die Familie Feuerstein (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flintstones_%E2%80%93_Die_Familie_Feuerstein)
1996 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996): Big Bully – Mein liebster Feind
1997 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997): Liebling, jetzt haben wir uns geschrumpft (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebling%2C_jetzt_haben_wir_uns_geschrumpft) [Video]
2003 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003): Bärenbrüder (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A4renbr%C3%BCder)


just kidding - couldn't resist

D,

AndreKling
03-15-2007, 08:00 AM
Hey mopius i agree with you, there should be more than one category ( as the contest has already ), the only thing is that i think lighting and camera angles can be as much influencial as a texture on a model, so maybe the best way to vote on the modelling category would be a basic lighting settup ( a dome light for example ) and a turning table video ( after all we are talking about a 3d model that should look simillar to the subject in all angles, right?)

I think it would be nice to hv a thread for asking help and advice, its true that ppl has their wip thread, and alot of ppl gets good advice on their own thread, but alot of time someone ask for help in their wip thread and takes so long for someone to answer ( maybe not everybody looks through all the wips ), so perhaps if there was a help and suggestion thread things could go a litle fatser... and beyound that, maybe someone has the same questions as someon that might hv being helped already.

more ppl for the list

The governator,
charles chaplin
jerry lewis
marlon brando
clint east wood
james dean
nickolas cage

MrJames
03-15-2007, 08:27 AM
Just to add a few more British in the mix:

Sir Anthony Hopkins
Lord (Laurence) Olivier
Sir Sean Connery
Sir Alec Guinness
Sir Michael Caine
Richard Burton
Sir David Jason
Cary Grant
Sir John Mills
Sir Ian McKellen
Dame Judi Dench
Julie Walters
Dame Elizabeth Taylor
Dame Maggie Smith
Dame Julie Andrews
Dame Helen Mirren
Emma Thompson
Vanessa Redgrave
Joan Collins
Dame Thora Hird
Pat Butcher ;)

sorger
03-15-2007, 11:56 AM
some Chinese Movie Stars

Zhang ziyi
Chow Yun-fat
Michelle Yeoh
Gong Li
Jackie Chen
Jet Lee
Bruce Lee
Maggie Cheung

RobertoOrtiz
03-15-2007, 03:01 PM
Wow guys, great suggestions.
Ok ill post a preliminary list tonight.

Until then, keep em coming.

-R

Rod Seffen
03-15-2007, 03:03 PM
What exactly is the purpose of this huge list of hundreds of actors?
If you're going to have a list so huge, there's no point having one at all, it serves no purpose whatsoever.
Are you going to narrow this down to a list of 10 or so?

tweetytunes
03-15-2007, 03:44 PM
jay and silent bob :thumbsup: (kevin smith / jay mews)

RobertoOrtiz
03-15-2007, 03:52 PM
What exactly is the purpose of this huge list of hundreds of actors?
If you're going to have a list so huge, there's no point having one at all, it serves no purpose whatsoever.
Are you going to narrow this down to a list of 10 or so?

The list will have 50 people. I have picked people from most of the big eras of filmaking.(20's to today). And in some case I picked characters that had cool costumes/props.

Ill post it soon.

BTW great entry oddity on the last challenge.
-R

KrakenCMT
03-15-2007, 04:47 PM
I think if you go with a list of as much as 50, why not just let people do whatever actor they want? oDD's right. We don't need a huge list. I would say each artist should just pick a well known actor/actress and go with it.

It's like the Harryhausen challenge where it was already limited to what he has already created. By saying any well known actor/actress it already puts a limitation on it. Besides, I think you'll get a much more diverse collection of entries in the end. The list of hundreds that have already been posted shows that.

RobertoOrtiz
03-15-2007, 05:31 PM
Part of what makes the challenge work is a certain commonality,
and the cool thing is that it brings to the table entries people would not
usually pick. If not, people would be modeling the current hot star, and to be fair

I don’t think most of the current crop of actors are true movie icons.



And besides I have to think in terms what is good for the forum in the long term.
For better or for worst a list helps me providing more choices for future challenges.
If not people will get bored VERY quickly.



Anyway, I’ll post the list in a couple of hours. So keep posting your lists.



-R

morphius-ms
03-15-2007, 06:27 PM
Part of what makes the challenge work is a certain commonality,
and the cool thing is that it brings to the table entries people would not
usually pick. If not, people would be modeling the current hot star, and to be fair

I don’t think most of the current crop of actors are true movie icons.



And besides I have to think in terms what is good for the forum in the long term.
For better or for worst a list helps me providing more choices for future challenges.
If not people will get bored VERY quickly.



Anyway, I’ll post the list in a couple of hours. So keep posting your lists.



-R

I understand what you are saying roberto but I have to agree with KrakenCMT and Oddity, having such a huge list means that there could be such a difference in actors that there would be no point in having a list. If the attendance in this challenge would be low that means that each person could have a different actor.

Maybe a list of like 5 would be more suited, and then you could post more lists later. That way at least some of us would be working on the same model and we could give eachother pointers, or observations without having to look up references for that particular actor.

or even you could only have one actor, and then the modelers could pick the character.

[edit]Though now that I think about it only have a few choice actors or actresses means that if the modeler doesn't like that person then the modeler won't attend. Maybe you could add something in the rules that says that you have to post your references. That way if we are to give help in the WIPs then we wouldn't have to look for the references ourself[edit]

PS weren't we going to do an american president this time? like Abe Lincoln?


so maybe the best way to vote on the modelling category would be a basic lighting settup ( a dome light for example ) and a turning table video ( after all we are talking about a 3d model that should look simillar to the subject in all angles, right?)

I think that that is a tremendous idea, and one more thing the renders would be done if you wanted to add the turn table into your demo reel. I think that this would be a great idea.

Plus I have a link to a dome light mel script if anyone wants it, but it was pretty easy for me to find.

RobertoOrtiz
03-15-2007, 06:41 PM
I think that that is a tremendous idea, and one more thing the renders would be done if you wanted to add the turn table into your demo reel. I think that this would be a great idea.

Plus I have a link to a dome light mel script if anyone wants it, but it was pretty easy for me to find.

OK if I can get similar lighting scenes for
Max, Maya, Cinema 4d, Blender, Lightwave.
Ill post them.

-R
PS And about your other ideas, Ill take into consideration your suggestion.

morphius-ms
03-15-2007, 07:48 PM
OK if I can get similar lighting scenes for
Max, Maya, Cinema 4d, Blender, Lightwave.
Ill post them.

-R
PS And about your other ideas, Ill take into consideration your suggestion.

Well the dome light works in maya, and if I remember right max has a GI preset that is basically a dome light, I'm not sure about cinema 4d, blender, or lightwave. I'll look into it, see if I can't find anything.

KrakenCMT
03-15-2007, 07:58 PM
Lightwave has GI setups as well. Easily implemented, so no problem there. Don't know about the other though.

Diabolos
03-15-2007, 08:02 PM
aaawwww man you guys, I totally understand about taking the challenge seriously (that is why I come to this site) and all of the points being made are valid to some extent, but are also personal opinions, and I think Roberto is trying to reach a middle point that will be fair and fun for everyone. Think of it as a paid comission and Roberto is the client - sure the list is 50 but that one you choose is the comission and from that point on - the other 49 no longer exist and you were given that job. Maybe some are worried that their movie icon is not on the list, but this may be a chance to model something you normally would not have.

Also (I am assuming) clients do not provide base meshes or lighting rigs - maybe at the most a style guide on colors, desired lighting, and or any CI guidelines.

I realise that due to my skill level that my comments do not hold as much weight as some of the other members, but I just wanted to voice my opinion anyway.


D,

morphius-ms
03-15-2007, 08:28 PM
you make a good point diabolos, this is kind of like a commissioned art. and roberto is the client.

I appreciate roberto trying to make this fun for all of us. I guess what we are trying to do is make it better for us personally. as for what I said about the list I realize what I said would have side effects, but I think that it would be good to atleast have us post our references at the beginning of our WIP, that way if we ask for help the person helping wouldn't have to search for the references.

about the lighting and texturing. I guess that people against this (me included) means that we are lazy, or we don't know exactly how to create the tremendous textures. That is why I made my suggestion of two different sections. (not for the laziness but for the ignorance).

ultimately the decisions are up to roberto, I was just trying to make it fair, and pointing out that those on here believe that this forum was made for modeling only not texturing and lighting. but that's just me (by the way the texture and lighting arguement has been on here for atleast a few challenges)

fx81
03-15-2007, 09:12 PM
here is my 2 cents:

this is a hardcore modeling forum. so keep everything focused on modeling.

final presentation of the entries could be just grey shaded with no fancy lighiting/GI. good renders most of the time over shadows good modeling in public votes like these, so the final results turn out to be unfair at times.

if you want to do stuff other than modeling in this challenge to keep things interesting then change the name of the forum to "Hardcore Modeling, Texturing, Lighting, Rendering, Rigging ETC".

also, i suggest everyone model their base mesh.

BobbyB
03-15-2007, 11:42 PM
As a charater modeler myself i have neve sent a character to a client with out it being textured and a nicely lighted render done of it.

It is part of being a modeler and i think people should take the opertunity to learn how to present their work in the best possible way.

volchzick
03-15-2007, 11:48 PM
I have been watching this forum for some time.. I really want to be apart of the next challenge. When is the date to view the determined set of rules for the challenge?

SONIC-X
03-16-2007, 05:29 AM
This looks realy interesting.
Lets have the list and rules ,please.

My organic modelling suck and this will help a plenty to learn some tips from those who can.

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2007, 06:46 AM
Ok as promised, here is version 1.0 of the list.
This is NOT the final list:




Peter Venkman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Venkman)Ghost Busters (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087332/) (1984) Proton Pack
Ellen Ripley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Ripley)Aliens (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090605/) (1986) PowerLoader
Conan Conan the Barbarian (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082198/) (1982)
Mad Max Mad Max 2 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082694/) (1981)
Han Solo Star Wars (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/) (1977)
King Leonidas 300 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416449/) (2006)
John Rambo Rambo: First Blood Part II (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089880/) (1985)
Kurgan Highlander (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091203/) (1986)
Goblin King Labyrinth (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091369/) (1986)
Doc Brown Back to the Future (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088763/) (1985)
The Matrix (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/) (1999)
Sam Spade The Maltese Falcon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033870/) (1941)
Ben Hur Ben-Hur (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052618/) (1959)
Lee Enter the Dragon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070034/) (1973)
Maximus Decimus Meridius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximus_Decimus_Meridius)Gladiator (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0172495/) (2000)`
Insp. Jacques Clouseau The Pink Panther (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057413/) (1963)
Cleopatra Cleopatra (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056937/) (1963)
Snake Plissken Escape from New York (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082340/) (1981)
Kikuchiyo Shichinin no samurai (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047478/) (1954)
Blade Blade (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120611/) (1998)
Grand Moff Tarkin Star Wars (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/) (1977)
Dracula Dracula (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0021814/) (1931)
Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley Bride of Frankenstein (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0026138/) (1935)
Holly Golightly Breakfast at Tiffany's (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054698/) (1961)
The Bride Kill Bill: Vol. 1 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0266697/) (2003)
Apollo Creed Rocky (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075148/) (1976)
Alex de Large A Clockwork Orange (1971) (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu9quvPhFdkUACRZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE3ZWtvMjBiBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNzU1XzEwMQ--/SIG=11nifiefo/EXP=1174015534/**http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066921)
Ash Army of Darkness (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu9quvPhFdkUACRZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE3ZWtvMjBiBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNzU1XzEwMQ--/SIG=11nifiefo/EXP=1174015534/**http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066921) (1992)
Eric Draven The Crow (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109506/) (1994)
Dr. Frank-N-Furter The Rocky Horror Picture Show (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073629/) (1975)
Travis Bickle Taxi Driver (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075314/) (1976)
Don Vito Corleone The Godfather (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068646/) (1972)
Paul Usul Muad'Dib Atreides Dune (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087182/) (1984)
Cyrano de Bergerac Cyrano et d'Artagnan (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057988/) (1964)
James Bond Dr. No (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055928/) (1962)
Elizabeth I Elizabeth (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0127536/) (1998)
Gandalf the Grey (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120737/quotes)The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120737/) (2001)
The Girl The Seven Year Itch (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048605/) (1955)
Insp. Harry Callahan Dirty Harry (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066999/) (1971)
Tony Montana Scarface (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086250/) (1983)
'Joliet' Jake BluesThe Blues Brothers (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/) (1980))
King Arthur Excalibur (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082348/) (1981)
Pvt. Vasquez Aliens (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090605/) (1986)
Aragon The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120737/) (2001)
Rameses The Ten Commandments (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049833/) (1956)
John McClane Die Hard (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095016/) (1988)
Tony Manero Saturday Night Fever (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076666/) (1977)
Graf Orlok Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0013442/) (1922)
Jack Sparrow Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0325980/) (2003)
Gen. George S. Patton Jr. Patton (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066206/) (1970)
Lara Croft Lara Croft: Tomb Raider (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0146316/) (2001)
Khan Noonien Singh Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084726/) (1982)
Cary Grant
Charles Chaplin The Tramp (http://forums.cgsociety.org/title/tt0006177/) (1915)
John Wayne The Searchers (http://forums.cgsociety.org/title/tt0049730/) (1956)
Dr. Hannibal Lecter The Silence of the Lambs (http://forums.cgsociety.org/title/tt0102926/) (1991)

SantoAnderson
03-16-2007, 06:58 AM
Sweet! Let's get cracking.

Diabolos
03-16-2007, 08:02 AM
Sweet! Let's get cracking.

amen brother

SONIC-X
03-16-2007, 11:09 AM
Some nice one's.

Lets give it a try.

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2007, 12:31 PM
Ok give me 24 hours...

tweetytunes
03-16-2007, 12:43 PM
Pvt. Vasquez Aliens (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090605/) (1986)
very cool and unexpected choice. Good looking list- think I might give this a go

Diabolos
03-16-2007, 01:32 PM
I may be jumping the gun here, but I am also only thinking out loud, if I model Nigel Terry from excalibur, can I model the helm and coif from the movie as well? Oh I am having an inner battle on who I am going to choose - so many great ones - maybe Kergan - just kidding Sergio

Note: Now I recognized Nigel Terry from the movie Troy - I never forget a face.

D,

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2007, 02:48 PM
I may be jumping the gun here, but I am also only thinking out loud, if I model Nigel Terry from excalibur, can I model the helm and coif from the movie as well? Oh I am having an inner battle on who I am going to choose - so many great ones - maybe Kergan - just kidding Sergio

Note: Now I recognized Nigel Terry from the movie Troy - I never forget a face.

D,

The way I see it, it the character used it, you can model it.
Think of it as props. You dont have to model it, but, honestly, It helps to complement
your entry A LOT.

I mean imagine Dirty Harry without his Magnum gun,
or King Arthur without Excalibur.


More examples from the list,

Peter Venkman from Ghostbusters: Proton Pack(Image (http://thefirehouse.ghostbustersinternational.com/packback.jpg))
Pvt Vazquez Aliens : Machine Gun (Image (http://www.redplanettoys.com/cu_html/cu_pvt_vazquez.html))
Helen Ripley : Caterpillar P-5000 Powered Work Loader (Video (http://brl.ee.washington.edu/Research_Active/Exoskeleton/Video/Aliens_Loader_5000.mpg))


All these props are the icing on the cake, but if you wish to ONLY do busts, that is cool too.

I will also required people people to do Ortho rendering of the faces to see that the likeness work.

SergioSantos
03-16-2007, 03:06 PM
My Kurgan is ready to fight against any of your warriors!!!
he is just waiting for the rules of the contest...

hehehe, just kidding.

about the ortho renders... sometimes the character of the movie is really different from the real actor, so I think we should go for the role, instead to compare the likeness with the real actor.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

Rod Seffen
03-16-2007, 03:10 PM
Shouldn't you at least have a rule that you have to do a visible face?
No characters with helmets, masks etc obscuring their faces.
This should primarily be a contest to model a good likeness of a famous face.

Diabolos
03-16-2007, 03:58 PM
Shouldn't you at least have a rule that you have to do a visible face?
No characters with helmets, masks etc obscuring their faces.
This should primarily be a contest to model a good likeness of a famous face.

I figured that would be obvious. I was thinking of the cover from the excalibur dvd, as the visor is open, and the helm is quite wide and revealing. But may be a good point if someone chooses an actor with facial prostetics/masks.

D,

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2007, 04:01 PM
Shouldn't you at least have a rule that you have to do a visible face?
No characters with helmets, masks etc obscuring their faces.
This should primarily be a contest to model a good likeness of a famous face.

That is why there will be a the head ortho rule for all entries.
People WILL have to post closeups of the face of the character from
the front, side and back.

And if the character wears a helmet/ hat or mask (like the helmet King Leonidas wears on 300) the character has to be rendered without them.

-R

Diabolos
03-16-2007, 04:01 PM
All these props are the icing on the cake, but if you wish to ONLY do busts, that is cool too.


Are we doing the WHOLE body? I thought we were only doing a portrait?

D,

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2007, 04:05 PM
Are we doing the WHOLE body? I thought we were only doing a portrait?

D,

You can do either

Busts
Full Figures
And even Busts can have props, like Patches (Snake), Helmets(Leonidas), Scarves(Captain Jack) or Hats (Bogart). So if you do a bust, you need to provide TWO sets of orthos, one with props, one WITHOUT props.

Diabolos
03-16-2007, 04:30 PM
Thankfully there is the invention of DVD screen capture, as there are like no pictures of Nigel Terry.

D,

morphius-ms
03-16-2007, 04:34 PM
wow that's a good list... though I think you forgot one... Arnold Schwarzenegger from the Terminator movies... lol (j/k)

neway that is a tremendous list... though I am wondering how long will you give us for the characters or the busts, because I am currently working on another personal project so I won't be able to start right away but I really want to do this challenge, and I really don't want to put this project on hold I want to finish it.

can't wait to get started on this though.

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2007, 04:41 PM
I am leaning more to a month and two weeks. I REALLY want to encurage people to do multiple entries.


-R

morphius-ms
03-16-2007, 04:58 PM
cool.... that should be plenty of time... can't wait...

oh yeah I was wondering... are we going for photorealism or can we do stylizations of the characters? I am probably gonna go for photorealism rather than stylization (if it's allowed) but I want to keep my options open.

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2007, 06:21 PM
cool.... that should be plenty of time... can't wait...

oh yeah I was wondering... are we going for photorealism or can we do stylizations of the characters? I am probably gonna go for photorealism rather than stylization (if it's allowed) but I want to keep my options open.

You can do cartoon style entries in you wish.
BUT you need to specify you have picked this kind of entry.
-R

KrakenCMT
03-16-2007, 06:37 PM
Stylized entries will be much harder to do I think, since you still need to create a good likeness while creating something with a different look. But It will be fun to see some caricatures of some of these guys.

Doch
03-16-2007, 06:38 PM
We have the characters , now we need only some rules and an End date for this challenge .

gaiXyn
03-16-2007, 06:41 PM
oh yeah I was wondering... are we going for photorealism or can we do stylizations of the characters?

I would say no....Y?.....b/c as has been said manyTimes before, this is a HCMC....therefore, giving the option to add yourOwn style to the model would leave too much room for interpolation....and if it doesn't look right, you can always fallBack on the "well I'm adding my style to it"......to learn from this challenge/exercise....you want the model to look like the person as closely as possible...which is something hardCore.....if you want to add your style to it, you can do so after the challenge is over....I mean, it's your model, :) .....Or maybe Roberto is fixing to make a entry section for "toon Movie Stars" or something....then just forget what I said :D

on a sideNote....I don't think "we" ( talking about the modelers/artists ) should have too much say in the modeling choices....again, the way I see it, this forum is design to boost your skills, and hopefully get you ready for the real world of modeling for someone else....I mean I understand making it alil fun for everyone, but it should be pretty strict......but this is just MHO....:thumbsup:

ltr-

Diabolos
03-16-2007, 06:43 PM
I am leaning more to a month and two weeks. I REALLY want to encurage people to do multiple entries.


-R

whoa - lets not get carried away here. it will take me six weeks to attempt to finish something worthy of CGS.

D,

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2007, 06:59 PM
whoa - lets not get carried away here. it will take me six weeks to attempt to finish something worthy of CGS.

D,

Good, thats the attitude!
:)

-R

KrakenCMT
03-16-2007, 07:01 PM
I think if you only do busts, maybe multiple entries is possible to finish without hindering quality, but I doubt for full body models many will attempt it. I could be pleasently surprised and proven wrong though!

I'd want to do a full body model, and if time permits (very doubtful!) I also want to do a bust for some high res modeling madness! Maybe I'll take a day or two off work... :D

AndreKling
03-16-2007, 07:07 PM
on a sideNote....I don't think "we" ( talking about the modelers/artists ) shouldn't have too much say in the choices....again, the way I see it, this forum is design to boost your skills, and hopefully get you ready for the real world of modeling for someone else....I mean I understand making it alil fun for everyone, but it should be pretty strict......but this is just MHO....

Hey binder, i kinda disagree with you there, i think us as artist should hv a saying regarding the contest, after all its always good to hear other ppls opinion, and most ppl in here has a particular point of view about how the learning process should be taken... i mean, we are not here trying to make the rules easier for us, but more exchanging thoughts in order to make the forum better for all of us.
Hv a voice and defend your ideas are important skills for an artist, even if you are modelling for someone else.

I am leaning more to a month and two weeks. I REALLY want to encurage people to do multiple entries.


This is the first time we are allowd to do multiples entries right? or we will hv to decide wich one to present in the end of the challenge?
great list btw.
Andre

gaiXyn
03-16-2007, 07:23 PM
Hey binder, i kinda disagree with you there, i think us as artist should hv a saying regarding the contest, after all its always good to hear other ppls opinion, and most ppl in here has a particular point of view about how the learning process should be taken... i mean, we are not here trying to make the rules easier for us, but more exchanging thoughts in order to make the forum better for all of us.
Hv a voice and defend your ideas are important skills for an artist, even if you are modelling for someone else.

pointTaken...but I didn't say we shouldn't have no say at all....and I did say that I'm all for making the challenges fun....

here's what I mean.....for ex:: we have this huge list of actors.....now everyone joining this challenge is going to choose someone who they would like to model ( that's natural ) . ..in turn...when the challenge ends....people are going to vote for who they like and not which modeling was actually better..( also natural )..if you choose just one Star...and we all have to model that one person....everyone voting ( and modeling for that matter ) will have to remain focus on what this forum is about.....besides...having just one or two....will help other people to get better b/c there will be alot more references to go by.....a combinedForce if you will....

I think you'll get better/quality entries that way also.....

ltr-

RobertoOrtiz
03-16-2007, 08:14 PM
Donald I like your ideas. But the current challenge is on rails right now.

Any ideas on what you would like to see in a future challenge?

_R

lmancg
03-16-2007, 08:32 PM
A future challenge could be on stylized or cartoony movie star likenesses.

I seriously need to practice my organic modeling skills, and if I were to do a cartoon character I'd be simplifying things left and right (not to say that all stylized characters are simpler, but this is just me). Because this is hardcore modeling, the challenge I think is in trying to model an exact spot-on likeness.

Plus, I need the practice. :D

SergioSantos
03-17-2007, 02:41 AM
Any ideas on what you would like to see in a future challenge?

_R


CHICS!!!
hehehe, don't say that doing some 3D chics is not cooool...

and another idea, following the latest harryhausen tribute I think we could do some tributes to some others Grand Masters, this time from the 2D world and create a piece of 3D from some of these great artists:

Boris Vallejo
Frank Frazetta
Brom
Moebius
Ken Kelly
...

willbrown
03-17-2007, 04:00 AM
I agree with Sergio's 2D artist idea. A Frazetta, N.C. Wyeth, Boris, Brom, Moebius challenge could be really cool.

morphius-ms
03-17-2007, 05:13 AM
here's what I mean.....for ex:: we have this huge list of actors.....now everyone joining this challenge is going to choose someone who they would like to model ( that's natural ) . ..in turn...when the challenge ends....people are going to vote for who they like and not which modeling was actually better..( also natural )..if you choose just one Star...and we all have to model that one person....everyone voting ( and modeling for that matter ) will have to remain focus on what this forum is about.....besides...having just one or two....will help other people to get better b/c there will be alot more references to go by.....a combinedForce if you will....

I think you'll get better/quality entries that way also.....

ltr-

Well put Binder. That was what I was trying to say in one of my previous posts. With a list of actors it puts a bias on what the modeler/voter likes as an actor, and takes away from the focus of this forum which is the modeling.

I also get what you are trying to say with the stylization of the actor/character, but my view was that it was going to be harder because not only do you have to make the model "look like" the character/actor you would then have to make the model pertain to a style. Though I do understand the whole "oh that is just part of my style..." statement.

As for what I was suggesting, I understand your point that we shouldn't really have a say in how this forum is run. (And technically we don't since Roberto has the FINAL say in any choices) but I. personally, wasn't just trying to make it easier on me (which yes I will be the first to admit some of the things I suggested were for me) but I was trying to make sure that this forum doesn't go on a slippery slope of textures and lighting, and camera angles and was trying to make it so that the modeling doesn't get overtaken by everything else while making it so that IF the modeler wants to go farther with said model then they could still show it off and get voted on with the appropriate texture and lighting.


Ok enough ranting on with the list of future ideas:

The Seven wonders of the World
The Seven wonders of the Ancient World
(I believe the Sphinx (spelling) goes into this category but just incase it doesn't)
The Sphinx

Mythology (roman for example)

Ancient Animals
Animals in General

Ancient Rome
The Romal Colleseum

Ancient Japan

Native Americans

Planes, Trains, and Automobiles

End of the World

MODERN(not futuristic) Scientific Acheivments

Another 30 models in 30 days... that was a fun one

(I realize these are REALLY broad topics but they encase quite a few things that would be considered hard models)

Oh and I do agree on the 2d artwork into 3d that would be a challenge.

Cr33p3r
03-17-2007, 05:15 AM
Wha? No "Boris Karloff as the Monster" from "Frankenstein (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0021884/)"? A classic overlooked? Soo many props and what a character.

Diabolos
03-17-2007, 06:43 AM
Boris Vallejo
Frank Frazetta
Brom
Moebius
Ken Kelly



can't forget
... -> Luis Royo

AndreKling
03-17-2007, 12:01 PM
Mybe roberto could do a small pool in here to make a shorter list, for example evrybody vote in the 5 models they would like to see in the list, and the most voted ones makes the final list.
This way it would force more ppl to work in the same model.

About future comps, i would like to see a 2d animation movies tribute, Lion King, Beauty and Beast, Alladim, Laputa castle in the sky, Porco Roso, My Neighboor Totoro... so many inspirational stuff.
The 2d Masters tribute is cool, maybe add some classical comic artists to the list like Jim lee, Frank Miller, Capullo...

Andre

Rod Seffen
03-17-2007, 12:10 PM
There is already a stickied thread for future topic suggestions, so I don't see the point in filling this thread, which is concerned with the forthcoming topic, with suggestions for future topics.
I think you'll find virtually all the suggestions being made here are already in the other stickied thread.

RobertoOrtiz
03-17-2007, 02:42 PM
To all thanks,
I will post the rules today.

Blinder- No Toons
oDDity- No Dioramas
AndreKling- I will revisit this topic in the future. I will do shorter, (10 people only) lists based on concepts like:
"Movie Icon's- the 30's"
or
"Movie Icon's- China"


And to all thanks for your suggestions. The only way we can grow as a community, is if we listen to you. So keep your ideas for future challenges flowing.

-R

morphius-ms
03-17-2007, 04:04 PM
Donald I like your ideas. But the current challenge is on rails right now.

Any ideas on what you would like to see in a future challenge?

_R

Just thought I would point this out.

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