Girl and monster

[Stahlberg]

A screenshot of the girl after some more modeling. Obviously I'm not bothering with things that will not be seen in the image, like the fingers on her right hand, and connecting the gap in the neck etc... (Though it sounds cool, making an animation out of this would take too long...)

http://www.androidblues.com/onelas3dwip2.jpg

[detonum]

Good start :thumbsup:

If you havent noticed, her hand is going trough her neck. (you noticed :) )

I can see alot of unusual shapes, but this is a wip so Ill save the crits for later on :)

[eLm0]

hey starlberg,
Big question every 3d man\woman in the world has your nurbs tut thought about writing up a sub-d one.

[Ech0]

keep going great job

[FallenSwordsman]

Hi Steven

First off - love all your work and respect your level and depth of knowledge.

This piece is looking great so far! I don't feel that I'm in much of a position to pick holes in your work - it would be like that uncle that always comes round who is a self appointed authority on everything trying to tell a brain surgeon how to do his job.

Big thumbs up on this one :thumbsup:

[samartin]

I am so looking forward to seeing this baby come along, your 2d image is still sitting on my desktop...

looking promising so far :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Backstabbeth]

:love:

that 2d is beatiful, and the subject is really provocative... well done... i want to see the models when they are seemless

[ceql]

mmmm progressing nicely, I can't wait for this one! :bounce: :bounce:

Edit: /me always gets excited when I see a gallery/WIP thread by Stahlberg :D

[Toulouse]

good work, I like your lighting its pretty good, cant wait to see an update on that, the subject is very interessting either, good job!

[Bane]

AAAAAAAAAa, I want to see more!

This is sweet. But she does seem to be trying to stab herself in the neck with her hand...:hmm:

[miao3d]

i like it so much!!:love:

[psilipsycho]

I can't wait for the final! I'm sure it will be great!

[phoenix2k]

jep, cant wait for the final 3d version :) :thumbsup:

[mattie]

oh! favorite again, but in 3d!! :beer:

[theartspark]

I remember this post from a short time ago. I love this piece and I can't wait to see it finished in 3D. You've got a very nice start, keep it up! : )

[AtrusDni]

Good start Stahlberg! You absolutely must keep us posted. :applause:

[Stahlberg]

Thanks! Well here's another, with the fog (but low res on the shadowsamples for now)... the hair is just a left-over I was trying out.

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime2.jpg

[Menge]

going very well! i liked the fact that you have even her ribs done :P

updates! :PPPPP

oh! are you going for the artsy look on the final 3d piece or more realistic and/or sinthetic?

[JasonA]

Thats a great start stahlberg, I'm amazed at how fast its come together already and the likeness to your painting is really good. really inspirational!
:wip:

Just as a general modeling question, do you always keep your basic heads separated from your basic bodies? I assume you're using subdivision surfaces..

[Stahlberg]

Thanks. Yes for animation purposes it has to be that way, I usually make over 30 morftarget-copies of the head surface, now imagine doing the same with the body and head in one piece... :) I could try to animate the head in some other way, but I prefer Blendshapes.

About the look, I think I want to get as close to the 2d original as possible, without compromising realism too much.

Here's another, trying out some other bigger hair I had lying around: (hm, still going to have to make lots of new hair)

edit: also added another spotlight (with decay), aimed up below the elbow, for the extra reddish back-scatter there.

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime3.jpg

[Lunatique]

Can't wait to see it finished!

It's great to see you doing stuff for yourself again. Too much client meddling can drive a person mad!

[Soeren Nielsen]

Looking good so far..
ATM I have the painted version of this, as background.. really like the mood in it.. cant wait to see if this will be just as good.

[eLm0]

awesome nice
thought about coming back to oz?
i like the new hair but i theres this werid fold in it might just be me or the perspective about 1cm up from the middle
love your work post some new wallpaper on your webpage PLEASSEEEE well i think i've done enough praying to god for today:thumbsup:

[Nightwing]

Looks excellent Steven :thumbsup:

I think it's a good idea to conform to your original painting as much as possible, but the real challenge here (I think) is going to be capturing the same mood and feeling in 3D.

Volumetrics look good, and the fairy herself is looking sweet.....I'm keen to see how her wings are going to turn out :D

[Hickory]

Your painting has has a prettier face on the girl. Try pulling the nose and mouth back on the model and exaggerate the eyes and brow area. Her eyes make her kinda have a slight anime feel. Beautiful stuff.

[lerpiedood]

Stahlberg, looks like this could be another masterpeice. Great work. I know you reused that hairpeice, but how do you model hair like that?

[DaKrunch]

:applause:
what to say...
u rock!
i loved your artword in 2d... and i'm sure it will be even better in 3d...

the thing i liked most in 2d was the expression of the fairy...
:love:

[DaKrunch]

whoops....

i meant i like better the second remodelling:
http://www.androidblues.com/onelas3dwip2.jpg

the girl looks somehow more innocent and even more young

(astonishing to me!)
keep it up!

[azazel]

Definitely give her longer hair;) Maybe it's just me, but lightning and shadows on the painting were kinda softer, which fits this scene better. And where is the monster? :wip: :wip:

[Zohnzeith]

Really really likes both the 2d and the WIP 3d piece!!!!!!
Looking forward to see the final piece:buttrock:

Keep up the good work:thumbsup:


Geir-................

[Ech0]

and when modeling the face keep the face looking young
and long hair looks good to and how did you create the hair anyway ??

[d4rk]

dude that painting rocks!:buttrock: Your 3d stuff really looks good too, looking forward to when you finish this piece!

:applause:

[ivo D]

looks awasome..

and your getting awfully close to the painting..

make the monster just as good
and a cool background..

and yes..longer hair would be better..
it would give a more.. fairytale like ellement to it..

more fantasy like.. , long hair just rocks..

[Stahlberg]

Thanks, I agree about the comments, working on it. :)
The hair was just a first test using some I already had (from the image The Stool). (Started as Nurbs tubes, then SubD.)

Here's another test with some extensive changes to the hair, and a whole new piece on the arm, I'll make one more for the shoulder later. The new one is SubD too, but from a poly cube, then into a rounded edge S shape.
I also put in the first rough wing shape.
edit: I've no idea what those lines are in the background, guess I discovered another bug...)

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime4.jpg

[Hickory]

looking good...not much of a crits this time...dope method for hair.

[Mobra]

Wow!!! Does you like Frank Frazetta,or Bob Valejo? hehehehe... It's seems trivial. Congratullations for you extremly good work. I really like the girl's staging. It's wonderfull. I'm looking forward for the final result!!

Bye

My last post here:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45932

[bla]

no, crit just a suggestion...ok maybe a crit.

Her hand looks kinda funny going through her neck even though you don't see it behind the hair, it still looks odd. Maybe consider putting her hand on her sholder under her hair since its pretty close to that position as it is, or even move her hand onto the chest or neck.

[tomb]

That's really coming along nicely. I think the face should match the 2D one more closely, it's really cute and innocent but then again the lighting wasn't so harsh on her face in the 2D version. Can't wait to see it finished :)

[epasinet]

Stahlberg, you are the KING of CG...!

No comment... :drool:

enrico

[Stahlberg]

Ok, time for the monster. It's SubD's, in Maya.
http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime5.jpg

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime6.jpg

[Sharky]

waiting for the next posts ... great work ... really impressive !

[Thelios]

:beer: :thumbsup:

[bonko]

Looks spot on so far. I have a question: do you have a library of bodies and heads that you've created in the past and tweak them or do you create everything from scratch each time you create a new piece. For instance a new body, new head, etc. Thanks

[xeno]

wow, this one is going to be something special! Agree with the rest tho, the second version of the head was really better by a long shot

[Stahlberg]

I've got a bunch of stuff, but I don't think you could call it a library in any way... :)

Here's another test rendering.

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime7.jpg

[Hickory]

nice...A few things

Make the beast's head more streamlined...in the render, his brow pertrudes higher on the head than the painting. Give him a little of that nice red bounce light under his chin. Because of the shadow in the mouth, you can't really see how far back the mouth actually goes, but you should make it bigger. Give his head a little twist to the left not the profile...um...other than that its cool...

[Menge]

hey hey! very well going!!! :applause: :applause:

i can't wait to see the modelling finished on this one.

just an obs: i loved the hair, but isn't the back of her head a bit too long?

[mage111]

just my crits in comparison to your latest render and the 2d shot

the girls nose seems smaller and pointing up more in the 2d piece
the forhead seems a bit more protruding in the 2d piece
her upper lip area seems a bit bigger and rounder in the 2d piece,
the hairline seems to start a bit higher up
and her eyes seem a bit larger aswell
oh, and her breast(s) are definitely bigger in the 2d piece.

now, hopefully im not sounding rude, i love both the 2d and the current 3d work you've done, infact im absolutely astounded by the 2d one, i love it :-)

keep up the great work

[scott2600]

starting to look really good.. cant wait to see the finished product....

[EdmX]

really good job...
nice 2d and the 3d is comming pretty amazing.....

not to much to say.....
great......

[forve]

Great job!
It' very interesting see real WIP.

As to hairs. Do you plan use your old way to make it or something new such as Joe Alter hair plugin, yuya curve hair plugin, PaintFx, etc.?

[Darkmesh]

:beer:

Awesome ;)

[ivo D]

it looks great.. but.. your painting.. is looking so much better.. till this stage..

but the 3d is looking good..

my opinion ,srry:.. this is your 3d version,with more capabillitys,so ,really make it more than the original..more detail.. better mood.. ,misterious nice background.. really make it better..

or els it will just be the same in allmost every way..

the girls head looks fine..but the one in the painting looks better.. in numerous ways.. so maybe make it just like that face... or a other..sweeter and nicer one.. i think it can be done in some tweaks in the mesh.. it think you didnt make it to much polys,so that would be easy to handell..

[Glasko]

I just had to reply to this... that painting is brilliant. You've really got a lot of feeling going into this and from concept to creation this work is amazing. I'm glad I signed up here at cgtalk if not only to see your painting, you get a big fat "WOW" from me man. Peace- Dan

[Soeren Nielsen]

One thing that made the girl stand out as non human (besides the wings) was the nose.. it was a little pointy tinted red, which I really liked. Just pointing it out in case you didnt notice.
Still to early to comment on the monster IMO

[epasinet]

Stahlberg, Stahlberg, Stahlberg............

[Stahlberg]

Sorry I had to do some other stuff for a while, now I'm back on this. Worked some more on the hair, wings, face, monster... basically I'm listening to you guys, even if I don't list all the things... don't worry about being rude, I value the feedback. :)
I'm still not done with her face too...

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime8.jpg

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime9.jpg

[HapZungLam]

There has nothing that i am going to suggest really, it is nearly perfect.

But if i must go picky, then the wings are not stands out enough. i mean now it is more as part of the background. Also, the read fill light casted too much onto the face. hum.. i am not sure if it is effected by the fil light, but if the face get more contrast... or hard shadow as the chest has... oh.. also, will you fix the fold of the knee? because now the folds are little too sharp.

[Hickory]

Well hell!!! I must say I love the girl's face. You are really starting to capturing her scared/curious face.

Good job with adjusting the top of the monster's head.

Wings are perfect...

Keep it up I am really digging this post.

Hickory2.5

[tomb]

I really love the girls face now. :love: Great update. The detail on the hair is amazing.

Just a suggestion... If you make the monster's eye invisible or only slightly visible under shadow it will add to his scaryness. A tip I learned from Giger in an interview on TV when he was talking about the designs for Alien many years ago.

[Nightwing]

Yeah gotta agree, her face is so much better now :D

Really like the wings.....can't wait to see this finished :bounce:

I know it's a continuation from your painting, but the red light you're using to highlight parts of the fairy's body works very well....

[augustus]

I have to improve my English to express my admiration before you finish this. :eek:

[samartin]

oh... This has come on big time, I refrained from posting as I didn't like the girls face before (well compared to the painting), I didn't think it would turn out as well... BUT, now I am pleasantly surprised, it is coming on v. nicely and can't wait to see the finished product...

:drool:

[piajartist]

That monster is very creepy

[jussing]

Hey!

Beyond my speechlesness, here's a few ways I think you can improve it - agree or not. ;) (didn't read through the entire thread, so sorry if this has already been said)

- lighting: I know it's difficult to match shadows and lighting exactly, since all shadows in the 2d are estimated and modified at will, whereas in 3d the shadows fall mathematically correct, and if you want to modify the shadows in one place, you'll have to move a lightsource, which'll modify ALL shadows... but still: I think the main light source needs to be moved a bit AWAY from the camera. I say this based on the shadows on the side of the girl. She's more "backlit" in the 2D version, and I think that looks much better. -That might also fix the quasimodo shoulder blade.

- The monster: I know we're still looking at a temp plastic shading, but I still think the geometry of the face looks much less threatening and characteristic than in the 2D version. One specific details is the eyebrows in 2D, where you've added tiny details to indicate the eyebrow is tilted at an viscious "angry" angle, like this smiley:
>:-(
(signaling "GROOWL, I'm going to eat you! Yum-yum!")
Whereas the 2D version is more like:
8-|
(signaling "hey, who are you? you look funny.")

- The 2D also has more exaggerated "doll-ish" features in the girl's face, but that's not something I miss in the 3D version.


Apart from that I can only say it's spooky how closely you can match a 3D model to a beautiful 2D piece.

The stuff I love the most about your 3d piece so far, is the way her flesh behaves around her buttocks, thighs, and where the legs bend! That just awesome. :applause:

Cheers,
- Jonas

[azazel]

I have to agree about monster looking not scary enough... He looks bit expressionless for me now. As tomb said above, the eye is too visible, maybe some squint or something? And other thing... tried to imagine him with closed jaw, and seems his jaw is too long... if it was moved bit backwards, he could look like maybe wanting to eat her;) . Some curled-up lips, revealing gums, just like rabid dog ;) could also make him more menacing;) 'Cos now he has a feeling of a loyal puppy... at least for me.

[Stahlberg]

Thanks, some very good feedback here. That shoulder blade has been bothering me too, but it won't go away just for rotating the light a little, it would have to be a lot and then I'll loose all the light on the leg. I probably need to tweak the modeling there.

Here's the last render for today, I'm going home to rest now... I've added several lights, I think there's 3 bluish spots and 3 red ones now. I tried a new more elaborate (based on real insect wings) wing texture, textures on the head, more modeling, added the tail... I still have to do some feathery hair, details on the monster body, his foot, a skull, and all those rocks... :)

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime10.jpg

[Cartesius]

What can I say? You've captured some real innocence in her face and body, and the monster is developing some character of his own. This is truly amazing work indeed and I will subscribe to the thread immediately.

[ceql]

nice! the new textures are looking great! :bounce:

[FallenSwordsman]

Just a small opinion here - I'm not overly sure about where the back of her heel is meeting her bum - the way her bum curves around it just doesn't look quite right but I can't place my finger on why...

Looking great though :applause:

[Dragon]

Wow! That's looking great. One question... are you using bump or displacement for the monster? very nice:thumbsup:

[Wizzard]

cool 2d image :p

[magpie]

Fantastic images, and I love to see the work in progress.
I think that I prefer the wing textures in the previous image. They were more delicate than the insect-like ones, and more in keeping with a fairy's wings.

[samartin]

yeah I'm with MAGPIE on this regarding the wings... personal opinion I know but as they currently stand they look like they should be sitting on an older fairy or someat, I dunno wot it is but it looks like granny's jewellery or someat :shrug:

The previous image wings look kinda fresh IMO...

[Maya4fun]

Good stuff Mr Stahlberg, the lights are extremly great!!
I have a question for "the monster" is it just modeling or you use a bump for the moment?
Keeeeep it up!

:beer:

[Max4ever]

stahlberg...you rull man...;)
keep updating! :D

[Remi]

Liking it alot Stahlberg.....I love the hair....that's something I hate working on....definitly inspiring to improve in that area....great job...the scene is looking boss can't wait to see it done...and compare to the 2d so far so good...keep going....:thumbsup:

[xeno]

Wonderful!! The face on the girl is just perfect now, but u probably already knew that :D This one is going to be just as stunning as the 2d version, if not more!

[visualboo]

Nice job so far Steven. Love that face.

I have a couple small crits but I'll hold off on those until my next post :)

[virtual_francky]

I'm new here and the only word I can find for your work is AWESOME :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Hickory]

Nice progress. I kinda liked her old wings a little bit more. I am sure that you have heard of Brian Fraud, but you should check out the style of wings he has on some of his fairies. I think you might get some ideas....not like you really need any, but still.

Give us some light on the monster's back. I really like the red lights you have as fill and bounce. Not so sure how I feel about the bump map on the dragon.

Still though, you have come so far on this thing, but there is still SOOO much left...keep up the good work.

Hickory2.5

[Stahlberg]

I agree the new wing isn't very good yet. About how much is bump on the monster face, here's the geometry:

http://www.androidblues.com/onelas3dwip3.jpg

[Hickory]

I am not sure if it is me, but I seem to be having problems getting your pictures to show up. Anyone else having picture loading problems?

[FallenSwordsman]

Nope - working fine here!

[Stimpy]

Originally posted by Hickory2.5
I am not sure if it is me, but I seem to be having problems getting your pictures to show up. Anyone else having picture loading problems?

last pic doesnt load for me either, can´t even ping the domain.... maybe the server is down for the moment.

[Stahlberg]

Yes, sorry, we're having server problems.

[Maya4fun]

Good stuff Steven, i like much the way of seeing the monsters.
Just a small critics about the monster, i think that the wrinkles are too net. But, i think you have not finish the model, no?
Cu man and keep it up!!!

____________________________________________________

Mon site : http://mapage.noos.fr/s.emmanuel/

[toddicus13]

Stahlberg,
I think the wings on page 4 were perfect, kinda like dragonfly wings, keep those. The bump on the monster looks good too, I cant wait to see more textures, maybe like a bluish stone or rock texture for the flesh of the monter with some specular highlights. Your progress so far is fine. I love the piece by the way, an innocent, fragile fairy longing for the hatred beast. Beautiful.:thumbsup:

[gnarlycranium]

Ohhhh geeeeez! That's not even right or fair or sane, that you can just whip up a 3d thing and have it look THAT much like the painting right off the bat! *has a small coughing fit*

Her face is definitely looking better-- I loved how she had that tiny nose in the painting, with a facial structure that was so subtly inhuman, almost kittenlike. I'm thrilled that you're making it 3d, because as soon as I saw that painting I was seized with an intense desire to see what the rest of her face would look like close up, from a different angle. It's too bad you're not going to animate it at all... I keep trying to picture this in a little shot of the camera kinda spiraling down into the cave to look at this, with the girl's lips moving to whisper something we can't hear... :cool:

I too liked the wings on page 4 the best, I was scrolling through the pages fairly quickly and when I saw those I just stopped, sat up, and went 'oo!'

Only crit I can think of is that I'm starting to wonder where that red light is coming from. It looks almost like she's hiding a red light bulb in her lap. It also shows a funny sort of edge under her breast, I'm not sure what's causing that.

Are you going to make the drool a little transparent at all? If it had kindof a reddish translucency to it, that might be really cool. Just like in the painting, right now it looks kinda... like a stick. :)

[jussing]

Originally posted by toddicus13
I love the piece by the way, an innocent, fragile fairy longing for the hatred beast. Beautiful.:thumbsup:
I interpret it as the fairy taking a stroll in the magic forest, picking flowers or whatever, and then the big beast snuck up on her... (or maybe, forgetting her suroundings, she strolled right in to the beast's domain (indicated by the skull), and then suddently he was there, having camouflaged himself as trees, with his long, snake-ish neck (like aliens (from Aliens) being a part of the walls, you know?))

So there she is now, trying to pull a Crocodile Dundee on the beast, calming it down, because she knows if she turns her back on him to fly away, he'll eat her... Besides, he's so huge he's practically alerady surrounded her...

So there's no way out for her... her fate is in the monster's hands... it's only a matter of wheather he decides to eat her or not... and that's pretty much what his intention is right now... like a snake before feasting on a mouse...

Oh well, I'm rambling!! :)

Cheers,
- Jonas

PS: Love the monster's head much more, now! He looks viscious and mean, like in the 2D piece!

[JamesMK]

Goddammit! :surprised

This is true artistic stuff. The 2D-piece is wonderful. You don't happen to be related to John Bauer in any way, do you?

(if anyone goes "huh? John Who?" this might help: http://www.bpib.com/illustrat/bauer.htm )

[HapZungLam]

Now the wings are more stands out. however, it is still kind of having a detach looking. Maybe is the bump, or the angle of the camera, even maybe is the lights.

I agree that the monster isn't scary at all. However, why do you want to make it scary? it gives me more of a guardian kind of feel. I rather the creature is the guardian.

[gnarlycranium]

I sortof had this notion that the monster is a friend of hers she visits every so often and has little talks with... he pretty much just sits there and drools, wondering why she's not screaming and jumping around like food usually does, and she thinks they're having SUCH a good conversation, and then pats him on the nose and leaves. Maybe it's the 'last time' cause her family is moving or something and she won't be able to come back again.

[ceql]

hmm y'know, I have to give a talk on animation as part of assessment for our "History of Animation" Class... and I'm gonna mention Stahlberg as one of my fav artists and as a pioneer of the whole virtual actress thing ;)

[Stahlberg]

Thanks, cool interpretations of the story behind it there! :) Keep it coming if you like! :)
Here's the latest test render, and I'm trying to improve the wings, without going all the way back to the old wings. But if it doesn't work I always have the option to do that.
The background is a painting I did from reference of a canyon I found on the internet. The haze in the air between the girl and the monster's tail is a semi-transparent bluish plane. The rocks are polygonal with all sharp edges. The 'feathery' hair bits are sprites, or transparency mapped planes. I've also added more lights. (I'm listening to all crits very carefully, and if I don't mention it or do anything about it immediately the chances are good I'll still do something about it before I'm done.)

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime11.jpg

[Grub]

Looks really great:airguitar
Here's a suggestion for your snake: you could give it's eyes some split pupils.:thumbsup:

[tvtuna]

Hi Stephen,

Looking good, but as I posted in the 2d thread I still think the jaw isn't right, if you look at a snake ( not saying that this _is_ a snake but.. ), you will see that their skin covers the corners of their mouths, and when open it stretches, at the moment it looks like your monster could flip his head completely back... Try opening your own mouth as far wide as you can and you'll find the skin around the mouth pulls before anything bone related stops it getting any wider ( unless I'm from planet freak here )...

http://www.amusement-arcade.com/pics/snakey.jpg

Sorry I haven't had time to find a pic with a mouth open (or read through all the posts incase anyone else has mentioned it) as I'm in a rush, but you may get the idea from there.

It's the only thing that bothered me about the 2d pic. That and the tyre thing, which is gone now.

Joe

[Hickory]

Really nice work. Looking good...her hair that is hanging down on her arm seems really weird...

[ivo D]

why..does it have to have snake eyes..
its so clische.. and the jaw.. is fine..

its fantasy.. so it doesnt have to be a snake or anything..


i like it this way.. and when it becomes a snake..

i think i would be not so interested at the beast anymore..
this way its origonal.

**but one thing.. that could be done on the eyes .. is give it more color.. so its becomes.. a little more frightning..deeper contrast**


really great work stahlberg.. the face of the beats was bump mapped right..not modelled all the way..

if its a bump.. congrats.. you did a fantastic job!!

[gnarlycranium]

I like the eyes and the jaw just as they are... maybe the eye could use a bit more of a wicked gleeeem to it, but that's it.

The scales are totally nifty-- but maybe the transition from small to big should go a little farther down the neck?

[McSpirit]

I think tvtuna is right about the jaw.. but the eyes seems fine to me.. Great work keep it up :bounce:

[jah]

her hair dropping through her arm is a bit strange... can't really say why... looks kinda unnatural... and the jaw of the beast looks like it doesn't belong to the rest of his head... almost like it was detached from it...

just my €0,2 euro cents :D

other than that i'm really loving like it is turning up

keep it up :drool: :drool: :drool:




PS: pardon meh poor english :X

[lerpiedood]

Hello Mr. Stahlberg. Your last update is wonderful! I predict that this could posibly be one of your best works. I am glad you are posting your wip shots, it's always interesting to see how godlike work evolves.

[tvtuna]

Originally posted by ivo D
its fantasy.. so it doesnt have to be a snake or anything..


i like it this way.. and when it becomes a snake..

i think i would be not so interested at the beast anymore..
this way its origonal.

I am not suggesting it should be a snake, I couldn't care less, I'm saying whatever you refer to, beasts, generally speaking, fantasy or otherwise, have skin around the corner of their mouths that hides a lot of the teeth toward the rear of their mouth. Check out dragons, wild boar, snakes, sabre tooth tigers, Lord of Darkness from Legend,.. currently it looks more like a crocodiles mouth (o-oh does that make it unoriginal all of a sudden?), which I, personally, don't think suits it. :shrug:

[Threedeemer]

tvtuna makes a great suggestion about the jaw closing muscle, dont remember the name either, it attaches to the cheekbone and lower jaw of animals crocodiles have it also. With or without it you have an excellent creative image going there.

[SDIT]

Incredible job, once again blows me away!!!! It's getting pretty close to your painting. Love your work. It's great to see you still pull things like this!!! Makes me wanna learn more!!!
Can't wait to see it finished!!
Cheers
:beer: :beer:

[Grub]

Well, I merely suggest split-pupils.;)
Snake eyes or no snake eyes, it's still a superb picture.:buttrock:

[Hickory]

Ok, The dragon's face is still more rounded and taller than the painting. He is surely a predator and should have a leaner look. The model is a little fat headed. Also give him a little rotation instead of the complete profile shot. The light on the dragon's head is a little blue. try giving it a little white to seem like there is a bit of sunlight getting into that cave. An his eyes...the seem a little cold and by that I mean lifeless. try giving them a little glow. They look fiery in the painting and they are looking at her in the painting. He is staring off into space in the modeled version. On the girl, I might make the hair not has shiny on the sides. A little more red light on the dragon as a whole wouldn't hurt. Its lookin real nice. Keep it up

[Stahlberg]

Thanks for all crits, suggestions, links to reference and nice comments! I've tried to follow some suggestions, I'll follow more in the next version.
Apart from that, the claws aren't finished and I still have the cranium left to do. Light is still too blue on the tops of both characters, and the girl needs to have a brighter highlight on the very top. etc etc

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime12.jpg

[d4rk]

is that the 3D version? You're kidding me? :eek: WOW that is pretty amazing!!!!:eek:

[Man]

cg talk award coming...

[Supervlieg]

Looking very good, I like the way you did the hair of the girl.

[gnarlycranium]

Ahhh, totally fixed them neck scales!

As for his jaw... I think it would kill some of the cool alien kinda-skeletal look he's got to him if you smoothed over the corner of his mouth. Maybe there could be a muscle behind the lower jaw bone or something... but giving him a more normal mouth would be a shame. Eh, that's just me.

[SDIT]

insane....
this kicks a$$

[sunlion]

yes insane....

:buttrock: :D :buttrock: :D :eek:
and not for sale:annoyed: :thumbsup:

[Maya4fun]

Great job, that resembles your painting more and more.!
Maybe more red light on the level of the snake so that's identical to you're picture (2D).
I'm repeat great!:thumbsup:


____________________________________________________


Actual Wip : http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48051&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

[xeno]

o my god! This is amazing stuff, i just couldnt believe i was the 3d version! Wow, this is truly impressive!

[Hickory]

Pretty....Ok, try turning his neck a little bit more. Let us see more into his mouth. It will help to give the picture more depth. His angle kinda flattens it. The girl's hair in the painting has a little red almost purple to it on the sides. like the red bouncing off the interior of the caves is mixing with the color of her hair.

The girl in 3D looks to be slouching a little bit, while the painting has way better posture. Maybe drop the breast on the 3d a bit and not curve the back so much at the midback area. Just a tiny adjustment should do it.

Fill lights for his eyes to help cut the shadow. Try fading the top of the dragon into mist or fog or something. The painting has this feel of the unknown for the creature because all we can see is part of his neck disappearing toward the top, a just a hint of his claw which is coming up ton the rock from below and not above. The 3d version makes the snake guy look as if he is descending from somewhere above. While to me the painting looks merely like the dragon is lurking around the same level as the girl and is still in the shadows, his full size hidden.

Sorry for the long crit. :)

Nice nice nice stuff...keep on going ...

[MDB101]

Most Impressive! Coming to life from a 2D world Transferd into 3D :) very nice.


Mabe these can help in referances?

Claws
http://www.vi2.com/getFile/114158.jpg

Teeth
http://www.vi2.com/getFile/114161.jpg
http://www.vi2.com/getFile/114163.jpg
http://www.vi2.com/getFile/114165.jpg

[ThirdEye]

There's a strange noise in that volumetric light, keep working, it's turning into a masterpiece Steven! :thumbsup:

[Aego]

Hi...:bounce:
Excel work indeed.
The passage 2d/2d is excellent.
I find just that the claw has right is a little smooth and too present in the image
( sorry for my bad english :D )

[Stahlberg]

Thanks! Good reference there!
I did work on the corner of the mouth a little, and lots of other things... The artifacts in the fog-light is due to low resolution, still it takes this damn thing over 20 minutes to render now!

Update coming soon, meanwhile here's a closeup of the skull, I modeled it in about an hour or so, I don't think it needs much more detail than that, it will be quite dark. That thing inside is just a plain sphere shaded black to make the eye-holes stand out more.

http://www.androidblues.com/onelas3dwip4.jpg

[SDIT]

pretty good, i guess if it's gonna be dark it should do.....
keep it coming!!!
cheers
:beer: :beer:

[jah]

the nose whole in the skull is almost as big as the eye holes. dunno if in the whole scene u'll notice it..

looking better everyday! :thumbsup: :applause: :drool:

[skello]

Wow awesome!!!.........why is this not plugged yet mods? while some crappy unworthy stuff gets plugged? .:surprised

[Stimpy]

Originally posted by skello
Wow awesome!!!.........why is this not plugged yet mods? while some crappy unworthy stuff gets plugged? .:surprised

probably because the 2d version was already plugged, but i am sure once this piece moves into the finished section it will get plugged.

so keep yer pants on.

besides, if it would make the frontpage it would soon get drowned in useless fanboy comments consisting of nothing but "AWESOME" or "GOOD. I LIKE IT"

[xeno]

AWESOME! I like it! ;) Seriously its lookin really really good!

[podoba]

im interesting of your technique. it's easy and efect. final render looks as cartoon and its great.
Well done

[HapZungLam]

you are fast stephen. how long does it take you to model the scout(spelly probably, dont' know how to spell)

[Stahlberg]

jah, yes the nose hole is a bit big, my reference was some kind of pre-historic skull. I should probably smallify it a bit.

HapZungLam, thanks, sorry I don't understand, you mean skull? Or snout? :)

Here's the latest, I now have a total of 19 lights, 18 spotlights and one ambient. I added a little glow, and a slight blur in post. Almost done now, but for some minor tweaks like moving the skull down, add some more fluffy hair at her back, make the big rock stand out a little more, etc, plus of course any suggestions you might have... the most timeconsuming and slow stage of the process is right at the end. I'm getting very tired of this pic now... :)

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime13.jpg

[Hickory]

Ok, I still feel that is head, brow area, shoudl be flattened more. Square off the snout a little bit... sharp edges denote something that can hurt you or aggression or even anger. by squaring the snout off you will help to give him more of a predator nature. Plus it will match the painting more:) If that is what you are going for.

Nice blur...gives a nice sense of the depth throughout the piece.

Great eyes on the dragon. That shadow is great now. Not too dark...over just enough to see the details.

The scales on the top of the screen where they are blurred looks kida wierd...I like how the top of his body disappears though...

I like how the butterfly kinda looks like a fairy...the one in the blue I mean up high.

Maybe darken the shadow a bit on the skull...

Nice work. Looking forward to seeing it finished. I have your original as my background, so I compare as I crit. Good stuff.

[visualboo]

Steve, would you mind showing it from another angle? No point in making it 3d unless you use the 3rd dimension ;)

Nice job so far btw.

[forve]

Great job!
I't's very interesting see how work moving from 2D to 3D.

And one small detail. Fairy wings looks slightly flat, IMHO.

Attachment is dragonfly pic which by my mind can be enough good reference.

[manutara]

Very usefull to watch the evolution of your work. Are you plannig to do a little animation? You should!!!

[skello]

:drool: :drool: aaah!! droool worthy art :drool:

[BlueCougar]

Awesome work. I like the concept.

[jeremybirn]

Steven -

As always, your work absolutely rocks. Your artistic talent, 3D skills, and dedication to continue with indy personal work, make you a truly rare bird.

"for animation purposes it has to be that way, I usually make over 30 morftarget-copies of the head surface, now imagine doing the same with the body and head in one piece... I could try to animate the head in some other way, but I prefer Blendshapes."

If you build the whole body and head as one object, then you can select just the character's face (not even the whole head and ears), duplicate those polygons into a new model, and build all your blendshapes as variants on the face model. Deform>Create Wrap makes the blendshape animated face model deform the face on her head. With blendshapes as wrap deformers you can even build blendshape libraries of smaller areas like the forehead and eyes, that overlap, and you are better protected from small geometry changes messing up all your expression modeling work.

Just a thought, since you are starting things over in newer software versions now.

By the way, have you gotten your hands on a decent sub-surface scattering shader for skin yet?

-jeremy

[azazel]

Almost finished You say...ok, don't forget little details like this "drool" material, maybe it should be a transparent?

And hair... there's something strange, they don't look "hairy" enough, like there was no opacity map:shrug:

Last thing: the ground - some bump map and colour variation would make it more natural, less "polygonal" IMO

:) well done:thumbsup:

[Stahlberg]

Thanks guys!
jeremybirn - high praise indeed - and means even more coming from you! :D
And I thank you profusely for your advice - I've worked alone for so long, if it wasn't for the internet I'd feel totally isolated; I'm sure there are many things in my workflow that could be improved, and I'm constantly on the lookout for info on how to do that.
But in the particular case of Blendshapes on my Subdivided surfaces, I think you didn't know that I use the hierarchy - I never collapse the surfaces, but keep the edits, sometimes up to level 3. Since the wrap deformer surface is only acting on level 0, by only blendshaping the wrap deformer itself I'd loose much of the control I have now. (For instance, I can make tiny wrinkles appear or disappear.)
It's both a curse and a blessing, and I wish I could find another way... but so far I can't.

SUbsurface scattering - I tried Emmanuel Campin's but couldn't make it work, do you know of anything else that works with the Maya renderer?

azazel and Hickory, I've noted your suggestions and I agree with most of them, will try to implement. :)

visualboo - I'm working on a few different renderings right now. But I also need to finish the main angle, since there's a deadline involved.

[Hickory]

I am sure I am kinda frustrating you a bit, pointing out every single thing in your piece that should be changed to make it look like the painting. If I am annoying, I apologize, but I figure it is no more annoying than those people who just offer, "Wow, I am speechless!!" With every single update you make.

The continual updates give insights to your workflow and that helps a lot, and I thank you for that. And in exchange, I offer you the most indepth critique I can possibly offer:) Good trade...

So NOW, hows about a 360 turnaround, with full Final Gathering and Global Illumination at 6000 by 12000 resolution, with raytracing, real particles to make out the fog and caustics working on each particle, and triple the lights...I want the dragon moving and the girl going through the full range of movements that she is built for, and make the butterlfys move around a whole bunch to...I want it all done by tomorrow, there is no excuses....hehehe:)

Beautiful stuff...can't wait to see the finished piece.

Hickory 2.5

[Hickory]

I could have sworn there were a few subsurface scattering scripts, shaders, or plugs on Highend, just never tried them.

Not sure if it is possible for you, but would the pic export out to LW7? Isn't LW sub surface friendly?

H-

[Stahlberg]

Thanks Hickory, appreciate it.
There are GI fakes available for Maya but they're only a distant approximation of one aspect of it. Most of them don't even do the one thing they're supposed to do - soft shadows - very nicely. I use Emmanuel Campin's Spherelight here in this closeup of the fairy's face, as far as I know it's the best one available to me.

http://www.androidblues.com/fairyface.jpg

(Note: I know it's crappy and full of flaws and lacking detail, it wasn't designed to be a closeup, it's just a test...)

I've seen no other SSS plugins for Maya, I've been checking Highend3d.com, please let me know if you find one. (But just in case I'm going over there now to check again.) :)

[ironbearxl]

Hey Steve,
This is a really nice piece you're making, and the painting was also. I think her back, from the side profile, seems flattened and could use some more pronunciatrion of her shape.
Also, you might want to move some of the hair around on her arm until it has a more organic shape, right now seems stiff. I always liked the style in which you model hair tho.
I have a question for you, did you mirror her limbs?

[Stahlberg]

ironbearxl, thanks! Her limbs were mirrored in the very earliest stages of modeling, before I converted into SubD for the last time and started adding hierarchical edits - trying to mirror and weld a SubD with those edits is very iffy.

Here's a view from another angle that someone asked for, it shows you how it's basically built up like a stage show, with backdrops etc. Very little effort has been put into anything not visible in the final image.

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttimeb.jpg

I just put my latest rendering in the finished forum, here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=461615#post461615)

[tomb]

I like that angle even more than the side on view. It gives the claoustophobic feeling of the moster coming down on her, the poor little thing, it adds some more depth as well. Although you would need to do a whole lot more work to finish it off.

[Stahlberg]

You're right... but for me the main reason would be her pose is more pleasing from this angle. Oh well, maybe one day I'll finish it from here.


edit: funny, but that's a "known bug" with me... I tend to draw and visualize things in orthographical views rather than in perspective. And I remember, one reason I started this in 3d was to find out if another angle might be better. But I got into it so much I forgot about that until now.

[womanonfire]

how on *earth* do you model the hair like that??
any tutorial? its really a beautiful image!

Originally posted by Stahlberg
Sorry I had to do some other stuff for a while, now I'm back on this. Worked some more on the hair, wings, face, monster... basically I'm listening to you guys, even if I don't list all the things... don't worry about being rude, I value the feedback. :)
I'm still not done with her face too...

http://www.androidblues.com/onelasttime8.jpg

[SheepFactory]

:bowdown:

[raine]

I would like to know how you did that hair also.. if you could give us a few tips maybe? Thanks man.. its been very exciting seeing the progress of this image :)

[jeremybirn]

" There are GI fakes available for Maya but they're only a distant approximation of one aspect of it. Most of them don't even do the one thing they're supposed to do - soft shadows - very nicely. I use Emmanuel Campin's Spherelight here in this closeup of the fairy's face, as far as I know it's the best one available to me."

It's a shame about using hierarchical subD's - that proprietary Maya stuff leaves your model stuck in the Maya renderer - unless you can convert everything into polygons.

One thing that is quick and easy in Mental Ray (including MR4M) is soft, fully-shadowing, light from a sphere. Just put a big sphere around the scene with a texture mapped onto the incandescence, turn on Final Gathering (set to a reasonable value like 100 - I can't imagine why AW configured their "Preview Final Gather" quality preset to 1000, that takes forever) and your scene is softly lit by the image. It doesn't even require any photons or lights or anything - although in Maya RGs you might need to turn off that "use default lights" render option if there are no lights in the scene.


"I've seen no other SSS plugins for Maya, I've been checking Highend3d.com, please let me know if you find one. (But just in case I'm going over there now to check again.) "

If a good SSS shader does become available to the Maya community, I suspect it'll be in MR before it works in the Maya renderer.

There were some links to tutorials on highend3d that claimed they were setting up SSS through MR4M, but they actually were pursuing things like making smokey glass with a photon volume shader, not SSS in the sense of human skin translucency.

The only decent SSS shader I've seen (that's shipping as a part of commercially available software ;) ) seems like it's in the Brazil Renderer (http://www.splutterfish.com/) -- I'm going to have to learn 3D Studio Max one of these days, so that I can use Brazil. Or maybe they will go rib-compliant this year so I don't have to, we'll see.

-jeremy

[ironbearxl]

I believe Steve uses Non-Uniform Rational Bezier Splines, or just Bezier Splines in layers. If Bezier splines were used I'd really like to see the low poly base.

[manutara]

Hey Stahlberg...one important thing I just notice. In your very first drawing you posted, the girl is having eye contact with the monster...but not in your last image. Were you aware of that?

.:drool: Nice job...again. Hopes helps.

[gnarlycranium]

Wow... the overwhelming big-eyed cuteness in those other shots is crazy! :D

It's terribly interesting to see those other views-- though manatura is right, in the perspective shot the heads of the characters don't seem lined up anymore. Looks like to get the drool on her knee, the monster's head is moved to his left, and she's staring straight ahead still.

[dragunzng]

Great work so far, looks amazing, just thought I'd say a few things, it's mostly about the eyelines, she seems to be staring above his head, instead of into his eyes, while he's staring at her boobs, or neck, just what I see. Other than that, excellent, hope you find the GI and SSS techniques you're looking for, I had the 2D version as my desktop for a week, looking to do the same with this :)

[Stahlberg]

Thanks. Yes the eyelines in that last other angle are off, because I wanted to match the lighting in the painting, so his head is moved to his left (her right). Hopefully, if I can just turn his eyeball the right way, it'll look ok in the original angle.

Jeremy, yes I'm just hoping there will be a way to render SubD's in MR soon. I suppose a rendering plugin that temporarily converts all SubD-surfaces into polys one frame after another could do it, but I don't know how practical or doable that is.

manutara I'm trying to fix the eyecontact.

The hair is basically first started with a sketch where I plan how to split up the painted hair into chunks, and their topology. I settled for 6 chunks for the arm.
Then I started with a poly cube, went into SubD, and soon had something like an S-shaped 'flame' with thickness and rounded corners, and a bit curved in the top view (to wrap around the arm).

http://www.androidblues.com/hair1.jpg

I copied it 6 times and started fitting each chunk into shape, detailing etc. At the end I added some thin twisted NURBS tubes.

[SDIT]

i just wanted this to be on the first page :p :p
it's too god to be waaay back in the 5th page
cooooome ooon!!!! :wip: :wip:

looking great !!

Cheers
:beer: :beer:

[epasinet]

News?

[MROGER]

:cool:

What a great lesson of methods, mister Stahlberg :)

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Bischofftep]

Truly:

Most excellent fails to cover the range of expression.

This is one of the best images I have ever seen in 3D. Outstanding job, and much appreciation for the WIP treatment, showing us the evolution of the scene and explaining some of the things done to achieve it.

Thank you!

-Bischofftep

[stereo]

superb !
this image gives great emotions.
:love:

[PixelVampire]

SPEACHLESS!!

[neversong]

you truly are an 'artist'.

I've watched all your works, been inspired a lot.

;)

[Sceme]

i can't see IMAGESSSSSS!!! where are they!!:blush:

[VelvetDragon]

It seems that there's a problem with the server where the images are. I can't see them, please check the links :surprised

I would be very sad if I can't see images from the great artist Mr Stahlberg is :shrug:

[mora]

http://mora.250free.com/onelasttime.jpg

2d version of Steve's pic

[mora]

3d version = note,the pic might not load if you're from the countries unaccepted by 250free.com.

http://mora.250free.com/onelasttime3d.jpg

[Sceme]

holy...*****...WOW!!!!:eek:

[Aego]

Sorry but i prefer the 2d version....:/
Verry good work :)

[ApocGFX]

I've been admiring your work for years, and this is just incredible...

[LqdSnk]

Holy crap!? I didn't even realize it was 3d! It's beautiful, both of them are beautiful. Excellent work! :drool:

[Glenfx]

Oh My... i didnt think you where doing this in 3D.

This is just Impressive, it looks exactly the same O_O.

I wish i had your same artistic level and expertice :P

(BTW: It could be really cool to have a shot from behind-right of the dragon's head looking at the fairy.)

[RDesigns]

Wow, I wish I could do that :D.

*worship* :applause:

[Electrofirma]

I have to agree with Aego, that I would rather hang the 2D version on my wall, yet the 3D version is awesome in it's own right.

What would be excellent is a composite of the... Nah! We'll leave it alone.

Great stuff Stahlberg!:beer:

[Strob]

Hi Mr. Stahlberg and everyone!

I love these 2 pictures. (BTW I just received my exposé with the 3d version included.

I prefer the monster expression in 2D but I prefer the girl's face in 2D.

Now that it's in 3D I can't wait to see it move a little bit!!!

GOOD WORK!:thumbsup:

[nobrain]

An Awesome duplication, play around with views I think it would be interesting to have focus shift from one subject to the other, both of them together tell an interesting story, but maybe seeing it from one subjects viewpoint could tell a whole different story. this is not a really a critique, cause the pic is damn good, no, I guess its just out of personal curiosity.

ah... my main question, how many polys in the scene.

[Miau]

excellent job ! O_O
you are my hero!!

[Franz]

Beautiful composition and great painting skills.:thumbsup:

[Thekkur]

veryveryvery cool! I don't want to make a choice between the two, but both have things I like.

In the 2D, I prefer the 'evil looks' of the monster, probably because it's eyes are little smaller. I also like the hazy look the image has. For example the lighter area just above her thigh, it's as if the light reflects from her skin onto tiny dust particles floating in the air.

In the 3D, the amount of tiny details is astonishing. The faeries face is also more sufisticsated, fear, and at the same time curiousity radiate from it.

My suggestion: don't use other views. The suggestivity of this image is part of it's magic.

The only thing I miss is an eyeball in the skull, observating the scene :rolleyes:

[dinodog-jr]

Mr stahlberg's stunning art doesnt inspired me to work hard. It only tells me the truth about being a real respectful artist is not built within 3-10 years only. It will cost rest of my life to achieve something
so
persuasive & evocatived... i salute u..Mr Stahlberg. u got the talent to stay in this field. ( only if i want to create realistic art.)

anyway, i am not goin to work in ur style to break another way into the heaven. ( I jst say it for fun, i can tell u i had make a serious joke) haha. . Art is borderless. We still got our choice to
create stylish thing rather than keep pace wif the others Master. It might jst torture our whole life to gain a probability in Zero-profit. So, Let's begin other type of beautiful visualise or stylish art. We dun need jst always stick wif Realistic art. Like the world is goin down all the times. And ppl still keep dreaming we will haf better days tomorrow. I do believe 2D will drift away someday. But it won't died so soon. No matter how 3D will be a better choice in future for everybody to make their art much "easier" & "UNbeliveABLE".

Nowadays Art makes me wanna ARGHHHH!!!!!!

[Ryder]

Verry nice images!! but i dont see the point.... making a 3d render looking like the 2d version...

[john_chen]

Very nice

[danjdob]

i like the 3d version of her face and body and her extended hand,...lovely expression on her face her,.. hair is wonderfull but still looks like 3d geometry rather than hair(perhaps thats the look your going for,.. still nice anyway)the dragon lacks the same degree of evil(its in the eyes tho its difficult to pinpoint what i would change there) and tho i think you have decided on not having the shadows on the dragon lit like the painting i kinda liked the effect.....and with such bright lighting on the ground,.. it seems to me that it would illuminate more like how you have it in the painting.....lol...but then who am i......(fantastic job in spite of my minor crits)..

[chloetje]

that i soo good i cant belief it that you just did that ...

i lived 15 years in belgium (europe) and ohh my god i never saw anything like this ... also because im totally facinated by fairies maybe geecky but i just do ... i think you should be very proud of your talent because your gifted ... but ya ill say no more then amzing ...

[MadMeph]

WOW, i am impressed!

@chloetje: Gevlugt van het slechte weer? ;-)

[med21]

Not bad Man

Sooryy I love it

[Bartek|3D]

Steven,

I'm a complete noob when it comes to CG still, but I've been looking at your work for a few years now and I'm constantly wowed by it! The work you have shown in this thread is just incredible. I can't believe how well you recreated the 2D picture in 3D! It has subtle differences, but that's what makes is great.

By the way, do you have a book out on modeling a human? I was in Chapters the other day, and I could have sworn that was your female model on the cover?! (nude kneeling girl on bar stool)

I hope I'll be just as good as you in a few years! ;) (i'm starting VFS in august, wish me luck!)
Sincerely,

Bartek

[asylum24]

one thing that needs to be added is the little blood/drool puddle that appears in on her leg in the 2d drawing. in the 3d it just looks like a straight line placed there on accident. it hits her leg but shows no puddle. just something I saw...also the glow in the eyes of the monster seem to bright. they kinda take away from the rest of the face of it

[Stahlberg]

Thanks guys! :)
Ryder, the point was to submit it to a contest that would only accept 3d works.
Bartek|3d, no book of my own yet, that's a book by Peter Ratner, he asked for my image to use on the cover.

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