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Womball
02-14-2007, 01:11 PM
I have a rig which basically works pretty nicely. However I can not get the feet to turn, so in effect I can not rotate the character. I think it may be a parenting issue, but I'm not sure. I do not know how to host the file, but I can send it via email. I hope the issue is simple to fix.

The rig is the character from my senior thesis which is the yellow link on my signature.

Thanks in advance. I really appreciate any help.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/mayaman2/newsuitmaterial.jpg

That's what he looks like the character.

Womball
02-14-2007, 06:43 PM
I'm thinking that maybe part of the reverse foot needs an IK FK blend, but I'm not sure. Sorry If my manners are a little rude, I wrote the first part when I first woke up. Not a morning person.

I can also send the file through AIM, YIM or MSN messenger.

Womball
02-14-2007, 07:47 PM
If this helps, here is the error recreated. Notice how the legs are rotated correctly with the body, but the feet are not. Kind of looks like a bird skeleton this way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/mayaman2/footissue.jpg

Womball
02-19-2007, 05:27 AM
http://www.filefactory.com/mupc/c7eea3/

http://www.yourfileupload.com/file.php?file=d4975a0d7e9b0cf32190d476713ec5ce
zipped

Here is the file.

Hopefully this will help with diagnosing the problem. Although I have an odd feeling this character is going to appear in animations not made by me... :eek: I really hope that doesn't happen, unless I get some credit for my work.:deal:

Womball
02-23-2007, 02:49 PM
There are seems to be a arm flipping issue for his left arm (the viewers right), which behaves oddly if it is brought close to the chest. This makes posistioning the arm in front of the character almost impossible and there tends to be weird shoulder movements in the animation because of this. I still would like someone to check the rig for the other problem, but this is something new to check.

Sbowling
02-23-2007, 11:13 PM
My first suggestion would be NOT to use the DT character rigging method. The guy doesn't really seem to know what he's doing when it comes to rigging. He does tons of things that you just wouldn't do if you were competent at this kind of thing. For example, he starts to draw the jaw bone the wrong way, he freezes all the transforms on an object and then resets the center when all he needs to do is freeze the scaling, he scales the foot controller by eye instead of doing it numerically, which results in one foot controller being obviously larger than the other, and completely neglects to setup any kind of up vectors for the legs, and a lot of other things like this. I own several Digital tutors training videos and most of them are pretty good, but this one is just bad! I would recommend the 3D Tutorial ACR series over this any day. If you can only afford one lesson from that series, I would recommend getting the second one, but I really recommend getting them all. I also really like the foot setup and the clean rig from the Rigging pro DVD from 3dQuakers, but recommend that you get the 3dtutorial series first.


Second, if you are going to follow the tutorial make sure you do all the steps. :) You need to make sure the foot controller is the parent of the foot root. You also don't have the reverse foot effector constrained to the leg effector and the reverse foot bones don't match up with the normal foot bones. I would really suggest throwing out this rig and starting again. While the DT rig tutorial is quite sloppy, you should end up with a better rig than you have.

EDIT: A couple things I forgot to add. Instead of using a polymesh cone for the up vectors, use a null and set it to the pyramid icon. This way you won't accidentally render it. Also, I highly recommend selecting your control objects, and anything you will be directly animating (arm bones, etc) and setting a neutral pose on them before doing any kind of animation. This way you can reset them back to their initial position by zeroing them out (setting everything back to 0).

Also, make sure you draw your bones from the correct views. Your arms should be drawn from the top and the legs should be drawn from the side. I looks like the reverse foot bones were drawn from the front, then rotated to match the legs, so when they are zeroed out, they bend the feet into an odd position.

Edit#2: I wouldn't recomend the Digital Tutors Enveloping video either and the audio is so bad on the walk cycles video that I can't get myself to watch it. The content doesn't seem poor(from what I've watched), just the audio quality with all the bleeps, bloops and dropouts. You would think they would listen/watch this stuff before they start selling it. :shrug:

Sbowling
02-23-2007, 11:35 PM
There are seems to be a arm flipping issue for his left arm (the viewers right), which behaves oddly if it is brought close to the chest.

Seems to work fine here. Are you moving the up vector for that arm to get the correct elbow placement?

Womball
02-24-2007, 06:29 AM
I had to. If I moved the box shaped bone which is where everything is located on the arm, I can not move it to close to the chest or it starts flipping.

I have animated already with this rig. Can I replace the rig? The rig is referenced. I could redo some parenting if necessary, if that doesn't screw things up too much. But ideally it would be nice to keep the same bones intact.

Sbowling
02-24-2007, 11:07 AM
I had to. If I moved the box shaped bone which is where everything is located on the arm, I can not move it to close to the chest or it starts flipping.

OK, you are supposed to move the up vectors. They control the direction the elbows point.

I have animated already with this rig. Can I replace the rig? The rig is referenced. I could redo some parenting if necessary, if that doesn't screw things up too much. But ideally it would be nice to keep the same bones intact.

You can fix the feet as I mentioned above by parenting the foot controller is the parent of the foot root for the left and right legs. At the most this may cause the foot to flip around or point in the wrong direction in some places, but it should be easy to fix. The rest will probably mess up the animation pretty bad, but if you can I would really recommend fixing it. Animating with a bad rig may take longer than rerigging and reanimating can take. Besides, if you are new to rigging and animating, the more practice the better! :)

madheavy
02-24-2007, 01:39 PM
My first suggestion would be NOT to use the DT character rigging method. The guy doesn't really seem to know what he's doing when it comes to rigging. He does tons of things that you just wouldn't do if you were competent at this kind of thing. For example, he starts to draw the jaw bone the wrong way, he freezes all the transforms on an object and then resets the center when all he needs to do is freeze the scaling, he scales the foot controller by eye instead of doing it numerically, which results in one foot controller being obviously larger than the other, and completely neglects to setup any kind of up vectors for the legs, and a lot of other things like this.

Edit#2: I wouldn't recomend the Digital Tutors Enveloping video either and the audio is so bad on the walk cycles video that I can't get myself to watch it. The content doesn't seem poor(from what I've watched), just the audio quality with all the bleeps, bloops and dropouts. You would think they would listen/watch this stuff before they start selling it. :shrug:

DAAAAAAMN. DAAAAAAAMN. I'm sure somewhere that Digital Tutors guy is crying somewhere right now.

But I do like their other videos.
Sbowling is right.
Get the 3dquakers rigging pro DVD. It is really awesome. Go through it, and you'll be a rigging fool (meaning you'll be rigging up your characters) in no time. The rig is really functional.

Your rigging knowledge will be abundant!

Womball
02-24-2007, 06:17 PM
I have the 3d quakers tutorial. It seemed a bit too complex for my character. I have less than 2 months to animate; I dunno if I can rerig and reskin in that time, and animate and finish my props and sets. If my animation turns out horrible I guess I can go in and redo the rig and animation after college (get a passing grade first so I graduate). And than send my thesis even more polished, out for festivals .

I don't quite understand what exactly should be parented. The foot controllers (the foot curves) to what, the top of the foot? I have a few hidden bones there, is it one of them?

Sbowling
02-25-2007, 03:01 AM
I have the 3d quakers tutorial. It seemed a bit too complex for my character. I have less than 2 months to animate; I dunno if I can rerig and reskin in that time, and animate and finish my props and sets. If my animation turns out horrible I guess I can go in and redo the rig and animation after college (get a passing grade first so I graduate). And than send my thesis even more polished, out for festivals .

I don't quite understand what exactly should be parented. The foot controllers (the foot curves) to what, the top of the foot? I have a few hidden bones there, is it one of them?

OK, here's the deal. I apologize for insinuating you screwed up the rig. The rig you were shown on the DT video was screwed up from the beginning. I really can't believe they are selling this, because it's useless. I spent more than a few hours today trying to fix this and it's just not possible. I was able to make the foot bones follow the rotation of the foot controller, but it causes the bones to twist screwing up the foot area of the mesh. This exact same thing happens with the DT rig that I enveloped myself, and also with the rig from the enveloping tutorial that they enveloped. I really can't believe that they are still selling these CDs, because it's obvious they know about the problem. After all, the Animating walk cycles uses the default XSI rig, not the one they made. I was disappointed at first, but now I'm just angry. I was considering buying a couple more titles from DT, but I don't think I'm going to be buying anything else from them anymore.

What I recommend doing is dumping the rig you have and just use the built in XSI rig. It has issues of it's own, but it's still much better that what you have now. I really don't know how you would fix the problems with this rig and save the animation you already made.

As for the 3d quakers tutorial, it is very complex, which is why I recommend getting the 3d tutorial ACR series first. They do a much better job of teaching you all of the ins and outs of rigging and after that you would have enough knowledge to understand and modify the Rigging pro rig to meet your needs.

I'm sorry I could give you a simple solution to your problem.

Sbowling
02-25-2007, 03:05 AM
DAAAAAAMN. DAAAAAAAMN. I'm sure somewhere that Digital Tutors guy is crying somewhere right now.


The more I see of that rig, the more I hope he is. He should be very ashamed of the rigging series. In fact, they should be offering a full refund and an apology to all their customers. This is one of those cases where they are probably doing more harm than good.

Womball
02-25-2007, 04:00 AM
I haven't seen any other tutorials for enveloping. Perhaps the issue with the rigs is the reliance on point constraints rather than parenting.

How would I totally delete the rig? I would like to keep all of the objects in the scene but remove the rig and history. I am happy with my work on the materials though.

-edit I started from an earlier file, however I will have to inport things in later. Is it possible to take a material from a different file and add that to the file in usage? So say I have a uv mapped eye and clear cornea sphere over it, could I bring in both materials from another file?

I am trying to use the Riggin Pro tutorial now.
I'm can't figure out how to add boxes sequentially to the one bone. I can get the boxes to be the right size for it and the first one on the bone. I think he says Ctrl D to duplicate the box, than press alt to move the center to the corner. However he simple clicks the bone and it snaps the box to the bone, and he doesn't say how he does this. When I use my alt+a shortcut for match transform the box snaps to the bone, however it changes size so its the length of the bone. It should just go underneath the one placed before it. :-(

Sbowling
02-25-2007, 08:27 PM
The model and other objects can be saved exported as a model, or you could just delete the rig itself. Look up models in the help.

I believe what he does is duplicate the box, alt click on the corner, or you could CTRL-ALT click to snap the center to the corner. Now, CTRL click the corner of the other box that you want to line the current box up with.

It sounds like you are pretty new to XSI and I'm afraid this tutorial might be a bit advanced for you. What I would really suggest if you have dealines is to use the default XSI rig. It's not perfect, but it's very easy to set up and works ok for simple stuff. I would recomend saving constantly while using it.

Womball
02-25-2007, 08:40 PM
Sweet! That worked! I think I can figure it out. I'm going to have to mod the head a bit, but I'm actually starting to enjoy this. Lots of really nice shortcuts are shown which make rigging much easier than it used to be. I'm used to rigging in blender which is quite a bit behind in XSI capablities.

-edit. I am pretty much done the leg now. I am at the stretching chapter. However it said to mirror early on and doesn't take into account a lot of the parameters and additional parenting I did to the one leg. Will I have to redo everything on the second leg, including the parameters?

I will post a wip file of the rig when the leg is fully complete, for any additional suggestions or fixes. I am doing all of my work on the Right leg.

Womball
02-28-2007, 04:25 AM
http://www.yourfileupload.com/file.php?file=5cdb38d0b24e5fecff6adeaba84c0c68

The stretchy limbs are kind of going nuts here. I'm working on the right leg. The bones themeselves work, but the lowerleg skinbone, feet skin bones and pivot are going nuts!

How do I correct this and how would I mirror it to the other leg. They just mirror part of the rig in the tutorial. Not including the parenting that gets the skinbones to work or the parameters.

Womball
03-02-2007, 08:30 AM
I worked on the one leg some more. It still has some issues with stretching but otherwise it seems to work. Is there any quick way of mirroring everything to the other leg?

http://www.yourfileupload.com/file.php?file=7926c1a8327fd6d92be0f85ed9e8979b

3DQUAKERS
03-02-2007, 02:07 PM
If you are refering to the RiggingPRO rig, or any other rig with some degree of complexity, you have 2 options to reproduce the left side, either manually (a great way to learn) or through scripting (build the script once and mirror everytime).
Built-in one click solutions unfortunately do not exist.

Womball
03-02-2007, 05:32 PM
How would you build a script? The arm seems really complex and ideally I only want to do it twice. I have another model that needs to be rigged to, so I was going to use part of the rigging pro for that. Also would it be unreasonable to add the jaw bone and eye bones I had in the first rig to this rig? Its not in the tutorial, but that functionallity would be very nice.

3DQUAKERS
03-02-2007, 07:52 PM
If you can wait for around 2 weeks, Automatic Rigging will be available in DVD and Addon form.
The target audience is people who have never scripted before, so you shouldn't have any problem following up the lessons.

Adding a jaw bone and eye balls is really trivial, and you should be able to do it on your own after watching the DVD (jaw bone already included).

Womball
03-02-2007, 11:23 PM
I won't be able to wait that long due to deadlines. So I will do things twice. I might be able to get the dvd for the second character though. Do the hands have to be placed facing down when rigging? Or could you rig them to work from a palms forward view, like my model was modelled in.

Sbowling
03-03-2007, 12:31 AM
You can have the hands in any position you want, but you will have to compensate if you are following the tutorial word for word. If you are new to rigging, it may be easier just to rotate the hands to match the tutorial.

Womball
03-03-2007, 01:36 AM
Alright so just rotate the hands than. However in xsi when I selected points or edges, there is always some random points that I did not select, high light. I'm not sure what's causing that, but its really cumbersome to work around.

I still have the one issue with the foot rig when the foot is stretched. The lower leg skin bone will continue to scale straight through the foot skin bones, rather than pushing them out.

Sbowling
03-03-2007, 02:35 AM
Alright so just rotate the hands than. However in xsi when I selected points or edges, there is always some random points that I did not select, high light. I'm not sure what's causing that, but its really cumbersome to work around.

What I would to is Extract>delete the hands to make a copy of them and remove them from the original mesh. I would then rotate them and then merge them back together, so that the arms are not twisted before you add any deformers. Make sure when you merge them back together you merge the UVs and materials or you will lose all material properties.

I still have the one issue with the foot rig when the foot is stretched. The lower leg skin bone will continue to scale straight through the foot skin bones, rather than pushing them out.

I never used the stretchy bones or the FK rig from the 3dQuakers tutorial, because I don't need them for what I do.

Womball
03-05-2007, 07:03 PM
Could the jaw bone have a skin bone? I'm also adjusting the skinbones so they taper like my character to get the rough size. I than set neutral scaling so everything is 1:1. The feet and spine are done, and I'm going to attempt to do both arms today and if possible the head. Any tricks to quickly skin and mirror weights?

Sbowling
03-06-2007, 07:29 AM
I had a lot of trouble with mirroring weights when I first started out, because I was expecting a lot more work to be involved and ended up over complicating things. When you mirror weights you need a symmetry mapping template (Animate tab/Deform/Envelope/create symmetry mapping template). By default this will show the left to right and right to left mappings. This is fine. What you need to do next is select the vertices you want to mirror and then run mirror weights. Only the vertices that you selected will be mirrored, so if you need to make an adjustment you only need to select area you adjusted and mirror weights again.

When editing weights after creating a symmetry mapping template, you may end up with a blue mesh and a line (green I think) down the center. This just means that you have your symmetry mapping template selected instead of your Envelope. Go in to your object properties and select the envelope and you should be all set.

Hope this helps.

Womball
03-08-2007, 05:04 AM
I'm having some issues with the left arm auto-clavical. For some reason after I do the link with, it won't let me key any rotations of the clavical. The animation curve remains a flat line that moves up to whatever number the rotation is at. Even when I manually add keys to the curve the clavical will not move. The R arm worked really easily though, not sure why that is.

If for some reason I have to finish up the rig and skin it, can this feature be added once its a model file, to the root scn file of the rig?

Womball
03-08-2007, 05:58 AM
http://www.yourfileupload.com/file.php?file=635e29820472202467ba5357aa9113b1

That's the latest rig if that helps. Going to finish it tonight if I don't fall asleep early again.

Its essentially done. I do have to do the last step of the tutorial and add some eyes to my character, but that shouldn't be to bad. Got the auto clavical to work. Had to do it the next day, XSI was more agreeable about the animation.

Womball
03-09-2007, 01:17 PM
I finished the rig! However I have some really strange arm twisting that's going on. When the arm is not supposed to twist it twist in 360 degrees completely warping the mesh in the area. Its painful to see.

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