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View Full Version : Painter X - about brush engine improvement and new bug


Hecartha
02-11-2007, 11:35 PM
I have seen the color mixer can be used with the camel hair dab type , bristle spray, Watercolor Camel Hair; Watercolor Flat, Watercolor Bristle Spray, Blend Flat and Blend Camel Hair, that is nice especially because we can use with these dab types multi colored brush picking colors in color mixer.
Since we can use the artist's oil panel with Blend Camel Hair and Blent Flat dab types we can combine now the effects of camel hair with the effects of artist's oils, a great improvement i think.

After these good words about the improvement i need to point some bugs...

About Blend Camel Hair and Blend Flat dab types:
-using the grain slider has no effect.
-The resaturation and bleed parameters have no effect.
-The bleed parameter is present in the property bar but it is in gray in well panel.

About Blend Flat dab type:
-it seems impossible to save a variant which uses the Blend Flat dab type. It changes automatically to Blend Camel Hair. Opening the xml file it seems the row shows only that dab-type=""so no dab type=Blend Camel Hair dab type. I tried to force it using this dab-type="BlendFlat"but painter X does not recognize that. Perhaps someone from Painter team knows the correct word?
-The angle panel is in gray, it should be accessible! Anyway i can use an angle expression in changing for circular dab type, set the expression (rotation, bearing or anything else) and change again for Blend Flat dab type.

About Circular dab type:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/PainterX02.jpg
When the Enable RealBristle box is checked, any variants using a Circular dab type don't work properly anymore.
See the video (722KB) (http://hecartha.free.fr/Painter%20X%20Offset%20Brush.avi)

About RealBristle:
I am not able to understand how works the orientation of the new RealBristle. See the next image, it shows the starting angle of the brush in relation with the barrel rotation of the 6D art pen.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/RealBristleOrientation.png
I talked about the starting angle because it seems to rotate to the correct angle after continuing the stroke. Is there a special logic here?

Anyone here can confirm all of that?

Hecartha
02-12-2007, 03:36 PM
I am still awaiting for any confirmation about everything described in my previous post but i need to share with you an example of the huge improvement of the brush engine in painter X. In fact, for the first time i installed the demo, i am feeling some frustration about sticking with Painter IX.5 :)
Anyway the frustration is not as high as it should since all of the improvement i like does not work properly.
Perhaps there are many people here who think the preset brushes give access to all of possible brushes, i just need to say it is not true, particularly with this version.
First, none of the preset brushes use the blend flat dab type! There are only few brushes which use the new Blend Camel Hair dab type located under RealBristle category. But again, none of them has the RealBristle box unchecked.
In fact it is like this painter X has some nice interesting hidden improvement, perhaps because this improvement seems like a beta version (see my first post). Before to upgrade i think i will wait for the "release candidate" patch or if we are lucky, the final patch.

Now just see the old Flat brush versus the new Blend Flat. For the first time, i like a lot a painter brush with feature parameter (Camel Hair, Flat)!! Without the impasto (in yellow)the result is simply excellent, and using the impasto it is so better!! And RealBristle was not activated, so we can control the orientation with all expression available (bearing, rotation...)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/Blend-Flat-VS-Flat.jpg (http://hecartha.free.fr/Painter%20X/Blend-Flat-VS-Flat.jpg)
(http://hecartha.free.fr/Painter%20X/Blend-Flat-VS-Flat.jpg) Click on the image to see it in full size (http://hecartha.free.fr/Painter%20X/Blend-Flat-VS-Flat.jpg)

Perhaps it is just my personal taste but i am amazed by how each stroke is different with the same brush. With the 6d art pen twisting the brush gives a pretty good effect.

jimmy-paillet
02-12-2007, 05:15 PM
damn you know how to tweak these brushes, the result is unbelievable...
i guess i'll reopen painter X and see if i can have someting similar and also confirm or not what you describe in your first post

Hecartha
02-12-2007, 10:05 PM
I uploaded this kind of brushes here (http://hecartha.free.fr/Painter%20X/Test%20Flat%20Brush.zip) so you can test it quickly. But that is really annoying you need everytime to reselect the Blend Flat dab type.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/Blend-Flat-Settings.jpg
For those who don't know how works the brush engine, here a little explanation
-As you can see with the image the angle panel is in gray, so you need to configure it using another dab type. Once you have done, change again for the Blend Flat it will use the expression.
-The grain parameter is useless...
-The boost can be very important, increase it if the brush is too slow on your computer. But it is not magic, it decrease in the same time the brush quality, sometime just a little bit, and sometime it changes a lot the effect. With blend flat dab type it simplify the path used by each hair of your brush.
-The min size has two effects: if associated to an expression it change the size of your brush. BUT it defines also the smallest side of your flat brush.
-You can choose the artist's oil brush profile
-The feature is important because increasing the brush size increases also the number of hair that painter need to compute, so it should be a good idea to decrease the feature if you need large brush.
-I added in the random panel a tilt expression associated with the jitter. Basically it disturbs a little bit the linear movement of each hair of the brush when tilting the stylus.
-And most of the interesting things are in the artist's oil panel, i like especially the clumpiness. The dirty mode can be interesting but the real cool effect is obtained using the Sample Multiple Colors tool in the color mixer panel.

Now if you download the brushes you will see there are 8:
The 6D and GP at the end of their names mean the angle expression is set to rotation for the 6D art pen, and is set to the bearing for the Grip Pen co you can make your choice considering what you have.
There are two brushes, one with 60 as size, and one with 120 and these two brushes are with and without impasto....and don't forget to reselect the right dab type, these brushes are not made to be used with the blend camel hair dab type.

Jinbrown
02-12-2007, 10:31 PM
Hecartha,

It would be really helpful if you could also upload a ZIP file since not everyone can extract RAR files.

Thanks,

..............

Hecartha
02-12-2007, 10:55 PM
Ahaha, my first idea was to create an sfx archive and after a strong reflection :buttrock:i thought "hey, Mac users will never open this exe!" :D My mistake, rar archive is not multi platform, now it is corrected

jimmy-paillet
02-12-2007, 10:55 PM
Yes you are right Painter X never remember the setting Blend flat...i've checked on mine
it's always getting back at Blend Camel Hair....

and the angle control is disabled as you described...

Jinbrown
02-12-2007, 11:36 PM
Thanks, Hecartha.

I recorded a small script to change one of the brush variants to Blend Flat but it only works for the brush variant selected when I recorded the script.

I suppose you could record the same script for each of the brush variants, then place the script icons in a Custom Palette, but you'd need to have different imagery on the Canvas each time in order to have the icons look different enough so you could tell which was which.

For anyone who doesn't know how:

1. Paint something on the Canvas to use as the Script icon (use a small Canvas and fill it with brush strokes so there won't be a lot of white space).

2. Choose the brush variant you want to change to Dab Type: Blend Flat.

3. In the Scripts palette menu, choose Record Script.

4. Change the Dab Type to Blend Flat.

5. In the Scripts palette menu, choose Stop Recording Script and give it a name, then click the OK button to save the script.


..................

Philippec
02-13-2007, 12:12 AM
I uploaded this kind of brushes here (http://hecartha.free.fr/Painter%20X/Test%20Flat%20Brush.zip) so you can test it quickly.

I'm surprised you didn't simply export your Workspace, and put that file on your web site.

The resulting file is bigger (it has all your workspace, after all) but that's the kind of sharing Painter X was designed for.

Hecartha
02-13-2007, 10:05 PM
For anyone who doesn't know how:
I don't know since i never used the painter script, thanks for the tip, i will try it when i will reuse painter X :)
I'm surprised you didn't simply export your Workspace, and put that file on your web site.

The resulting file is bigger (it has all your workspace, after all) but that's the kind of sharing Painter X was designed for.
It is mostly because i didn't really try the new workspace manager. Not because it is not useful to me (how many time i passed organizing all my brushes in a special order using numbers, how many time i spent renaming a brush variant in explorer...) but because it is easy to understand the whole concept, so i preferred to target the rest of the program with all these little things i can't read in the user manual

Philippec
02-13-2007, 11:24 PM
It is mostly because i didn't really try the new workspace manager.

For sharing, it's awesome. All you have to do is export your workspace, which will create a file with a .pws extension. Send this file to your friends and colleagues, all they have to do is double-click it (or drag-and-drop on Painter's icon) and voilą! Painter X will open, uncompress, install and switch to the workspace. No more futzing around in Explorer or the Finder.

Oh, and it's cross-platform, too :-)

Jinbrown
02-14-2007, 02:26 AM
Hi Philippe,

You're right. It's awsome!

Even after months on the Beta team, it's still sinking into my brain what a great thing the new Workspace feature is and what a time and aggravation saver it will be.

After all these years since Painter 7, explaining to new users (who still didn't get it) how to use and share custom brushes and, since Painter IX, how to manage things in both the Painter application folder and the Painter User folder (which made it far more complicated and harder for even long time users to get).

Now it's so simple and fast, it's going to take me/us a while to recover from the previous trauma years. ;)

brenly
02-14-2007, 03:17 AM
Now it's so simple and fast, it's going to take me/us a while to recover from the previous trauma years. ;)

After this statement I took the time to check out the new workspace manager .. nice .. about frikkin time! Would have been nice if the custom palettes were apart of it.

question .. do customised brushes get exported with the workspace??

Philippec
02-14-2007, 03:57 AM
I'm glad you like it!

Would have been nice if the custom palettes were apart of it.

I just tried it and my custom palettes were kept in the workspace. What did not work for you?

question .. do customised brushes get exported with the workspace??

Of course! It would not be very useful if they weren't...

Jinbrown
02-14-2007, 04:38 AM
brenly,

If you mean Custom Palettes from earlier Painter versions don't work in Painter X, that's true. It's also true that Key Sets from earlier versions won't work in Painter X.

As I understand it, that's because the code was changed to make everything in a Workspace cross-platform compatible. (Tell me if I'm mistaken, Philippe.)

While it's a nuisance to have to set those two things up again, once it's done it's done.

My Painter IX.5 Key Set was saved as an HTML Summary, so I opened that HTML page to refer to while setting up my customized keys in Painter X. It only took a few minutes and when finished, I saved the new Painter X Key Set so in case it ever needs to be loaded again, it'll be easy.

All of my earlier version Custom Palettes haven't been set up yet, and I probably won't redo all of them, only a few I know will be used in Painter X. Again, it won't take long to do that and I'll Export them so if they need to be loaded again, it'll be easy.

Other than those two things, I haven't found anything else that has to be redone, so I'm a happy camper!


..............

Philippec
02-14-2007, 04:50 AM
If you mean Custom Palettes from earlier Painter versions don't work in Painter X, that's true. It's also true that Key Sets from earlier versions won't work in Painter X.

As I understand it, that's because the code was changed to make everything in a Workspace cross-platform.

I believe this is correct. I would also like to point out that migrating a custom workspace from one version to the next (e.g. 8 to IX, IX to X) was never supported. There are ways of doing it, but not easily within Painter.

Hopefully, the Workspace Manager will ease all future migration issues!

brenly
02-14-2007, 05:24 AM
I can only pray to GOD that if I ever decide to upgrade that thisll be the last time I have to remake all my brushes ..


Of course! It would not be very useful if they weren't...

sorry from past experience, I find it hard to trust any changes Corel makes to the software, and it wouldnt suprise me in the very least that they would leave the custom palattes and custom brushes out of the workspace.

functionality is nice implemantation is a little lacking

Jinbrown
02-14-2007, 06:14 AM
I can only pray to GOD that if I ever decide to upgrade that thisll be the last time I have to remake all my brushes ..


Why would you need to remake brushes?

I've loaded brush libraries from Painter IX.5, Painter 8, Painter 7, and Painter 6 into Painter X and they all work, happy to say.


sorry from past experience, I find it hard to trust any changes Corel makes to the software, and it wouldnt suprise me in the very least that they would leave the custom palattes and custom brushes out of the workspace.

functionality is nice implemantation is a little lacking


Custom brushes are not left out of a Workspace unless you never added them to that Workspace (pasted them into that Workspace folder or into the Painter X application/program folder's Brushes folder).

.............

Jinbrown
02-14-2007, 06:18 AM
Duplicate post deleted. Sorry.

brenly
02-14-2007, 07:56 AM
Ive had experiences of corrupted brush files .. I think 7 was notorious for it!

phd
02-14-2007, 08:41 AM
Hi,

Custom palettes from Painter IX can be imported into Painter X, but first they need to be in "Mac" format. Using a suitable text editor, replace the CR/LF combinations with CR.
(See http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=112&t=461436)

Regards,

Phd.

Philippec
02-14-2007, 11:19 AM
Ive had experiences of corrupted brush files .. I think 7 was notorious for it!

If you are referring to the "Pre-built Brush File", that file no longer exists as of Painter IX...

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