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vrljc
02-25-2003, 04:40 PM
Where can i find some Lightwave 7.5 benchtests? I am on a Mac and I need to upgrade to a new computer (it is 2 years old) and I am debating whether or not to switch over to a Windows based computer or stay with a Mac. Which system does LW run fastest on? Mac or PC?

-vrljc

Thalaxis
02-25-2003, 04:55 PM
www.blanos.com

CPU MHz CPUs RAM(mb) Cache OS LW ver. [build] Scene Threads Time(s) Poster Date

PowerPC G4 1250 2 2048 - Mac OSX 7.5 [572] Tracer Radiosity 8 597 KT Oct 18, 2002

Pentium4 3060 1 1024 512 Win XP 7.5 [572] Tracer Radiosity 2 395 Thorsten Meyer Nov 26, 2002

Note that is 1 P4 vs 2 G4's.

vrljc
02-25-2003, 05:11 PM
huh? in english please?

sorry i can't understand that.....

-vrljc

Thalaxis
02-25-2003, 05:37 PM
Sorry about that... I was just trying to make it easier for you. Maybe just pasting the URLs would have been better. :shrug:

Anyway, to summarize the results that I copied:

You have the Radiosity + RayTrace scene (one of the standard benchmark scenes included w/ LW).

The single P4, 3.06 GHz running with 2 threads rendered it in 395 seconds.

The dual G4 1.25 GHz running with 8 threads rendered the same scene in 597 seconds.

I hope that helps.

vrljc
02-25-2003, 07:59 PM
ok, now what in a computer affects the rendering times? Is it the amount of RAM in the Computer? The processor speed? A buddy of mine told me that you can have a super duper 128 megabyte graphics card, but that will not speed up rendering times. Is this true?

-vrljc

Facial Deluxe
02-25-2003, 08:08 PM
Graphic card is important for ...graphics.
The Processor is what define the speed of rendering, and you also need enough ram (enough not to swap on hard drive while rendering)

terryford
02-25-2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by vrljc
A buddy of mine told me that you can have a super duper 128 megabyte graphics card, but that will not speed up rendering times. Is this true?

-vrljc

Absolutely. CPU and memory (in the case af scenes with very high poly counts or large texture maps) determine render speed.

IIRC Lightwave did have an OpenGL accelerated render option back in the day, which I actually managed to get working on my old 3DLabs Permidia 2. It's since been droped (long time) by Newtek, too hardware specific I suppose...


Regards,
Terry

sebek27
02-25-2003, 08:18 PM
basically, get a pc not a mac if you want to do 3D, you have more options in video cards, motherboards, processors, and get at least a 1gb in ram.. plus, the pc will be faster and cheaper, especially if you have someone build you one, it runs circles around a mac in LW, or in any other 3D app...

Thalaxis
02-25-2003, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by terryford
IIRC Lightwave did have an OpenGL accelerated render option back in the day, which I actually managed to get working on my old 3DLabs Permidia 2. It's since been droped (long time) by Newtek, too hardware specific I suppose...


Yes, RenderGL... it was intended for preview renders, and from what I hear worked well when properly supported, but only Intergraph properly supported it.

Triple G
02-25-2003, 09:05 PM
Well, vrljc....I'm going to basically be in the same boat you're in now in about a year or so. I'm on a recently upgraded 1GHz Mac G4, and while it's pretty decent when running Lightwave, it's definitely no speed demon. I can live with the rendering time, but it's the interface speed that still lags quite a bit. If I try to manipulate a character with more than 5 or 6 IK chains, forget about it....Layout slows to an absolute crawl, and forget about loading multiple characters in the same scene. Whereas I've taken the same scenes and loaded them on a cheap $1500 PC, and feedback responsiveness was vastly improved. I think processor speed and system bus speed are the two biggest obstacles holding Macs back in the 3D arena.

By this time next year, I'll likely be looking to purchase another machine, and if things don't improve dramatically on Apple's end, I think I'm going to be jumping ship. It just doesn't make sense to spend 4 grand on a top of the line PowerMac when you can take the same 4 grand and buy a PC that'll run circles around it in nearly all aspects. I think Apple has been, and will continue to lose a lot of customers who are 3D users. That whole line about megahertz doesn't matter....well, there might be some truth to that, but the bottom line is that other than running a few Photoshop filters or compressing certain types of digital video, a top-of-the-line PC is going to crush a top-of-the-line Mac at just about everything. Apple's really got their work cut out for them....:hmm:

sebek27
02-25-2003, 09:14 PM
triple-G you're from CT ? i'm from CT..

Triple G
02-25-2003, 09:26 PM
Yup, Danbury. You?

sebek27
02-25-2003, 09:31 PM
newington

vrljc
02-26-2003, 02:05 AM
I am actually from New Hampshire! Does that count?

Lets say I do switch over to a PC.....how easy would it be (and costly) to be able to still use my old Macintosh as an extra render node during Stealthnet?

-vrljc

terryford
02-26-2003, 02:59 AM
I remember seeing some posts about there being subtle differences between Mac and PC renders over on the Newtek forums, presumably due to the different FPU architectures. I don't know if it's still an issue, but it would be worth checking up on.


Regards,
Terry

Triple G
02-26-2003, 03:29 AM
Hmm....I seem to remember a recent article somewhere detailing setting up screamernet with mixed-platform render nodes...I think it may have been with a 3rd party render controller though. I'll have to do some snooping to see if I can remember where I saw it.:curious:

Cman
02-26-2003, 03:32 AM
Last I heard from Proton, I do believe it was, the differences in renders is no longer true. :shrug: Could be wrong on that one. :hmm:
Once you get the ScreamerNet running properly, it should render across OSs, but all plugins, etc. used in the scene have to be available in both platforms.

Triple G
02-26-2003, 03:58 AM
That sounds right. I think the tricky part had something to do with getting both machines to see the content directory properly (something to do with differences in the way each OS handles file paths or something), but I could just be talking out of my buttocks here. :shrug: Man, I wish I could find that site that was talking about this....

Cman
02-26-2003, 04:54 AM
Here's a ScreamerNet tut I found:
http://www.ironsquid.com/sntut65/

It's written for 6.5, but I don't think there's any difference between that and 7.5

Triple G
02-26-2003, 05:19 AM
I think I found what I was talking about: Screamernet Controller for OS X (http://www.catalystproductions.cc/screamernet/features.html) It's a commercial app, but the price seems fairly reasonable. Apparently, you would host the render with your OSX machine, and then you can use any combination of Macs or PCs as nodes.

Cman
02-26-2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Triple G
It's a commercial app, but the price seems fairly reasonable.

WHAT!!??
$450 for a controller app for a renderer that already gives you unlimited nodes - FREE!!
I got nothin against a person making a buck, but c'mon...
Dude, screamernet can be a pain to set up the first few times, but it gives unlimited node rendering out of the box. Don't pay $450 for it...
Just learn how to use LW first.

Honestly, if anyone from Catalyst Productions is around here, that price list seems a bit steep. :surprised

Triple G
02-26-2003, 06:32 AM
I agree that 450 for unlimited nodes is steep, but I was merely looking at the cost of a 2-node license ($75), which is all you would need if you had a Mac and a PC and wanted to use them both to render with. I don't think you can use mixed platforms for rendering with Screamernet alone....or am I mistaken? If I'm wrong, then I agree....take the time to learn how to set up SN yourself and save yourself some cash.

Arte
02-26-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by vrljc
ok, now what in a computer affects the rendering times? Is it the amount of RAM in the Computer? The processor speed? A buddy of mine told me that you can have a super duper 128 megabyte graphics card, but that will not speed up rendering times. Is this true?

-vrljc

Everything:) It's no particular feature. The graphics card thing is wrong although on the right track, some minor details which do matter were missed.

A fast graphics card will almost definately affect rendering speed, not because it renders your scene but because it doesn't:) The less overhead a card causes, the faster the machine will be for everything; not just rendering. Basically depending on the system load the card causes, you can either speed up or slow down a system. It pays to have a system that can keep up with a fast graphics card. AGP has somewhat lowered the issues caused with graphics cards but not entirely.

If anyone wants I can do a non tech tutorial on optimising performance for rendering. Pc's benefit more than Macs as they allow tweaking.

X

vrljc
02-26-2003, 01:34 PM
Go to this link:

Link (http://www2.journeyed.com/cgi-bin/sgsh0101.exe?SKW=lightwave%20software&FNM=20&UID=2003022607051420&GEN0=&GEN4=&GEN5=&GEN6=&GEN7=&GEN8=NEWTEK&GEN9=routey20.pro)

And scroll down to where i says:

"Newtek
LightWave
3D [7.5]
Upgrade Win Parallel $ 195.00

Does this mean that I can upgrade my MAC student version to a full Windows version and also upgrading the MAC version as well? Kinda like both Windows and MAC in the same package?

-vrljc

Zarathustra
02-26-2003, 02:43 PM
Is this a "what platform to use" thread?

IF you don't have a lot of software already for the Mac AND you'll primarily be working in Lightwave then switch to PC.
There is also better support and more plugs for PC.
I'm a Mac guy and I'm telling you that.
Things that help dramatically are memory and graphics card. Mghz plays a bigger part come rendertime.

There are 3rd party network render apps that claim to integrate PC and Mac seamlessly.

Eman597
02-26-2003, 11:21 PM
sebek27, I disagree about getting "at least 1 gig of ram" Sure that would be nice, but I feel that its price extends beyond its worth. If you get 512 RDRAM then you are better of performance wise, plus it leaves you more upgrade room than 4 DIMMS of SDRAM. But as far as a comp goes- get a Dell in my opinion. They are cheap, well made, and reliable.

Thalaxis
02-26-2003, 11:33 PM
If you are getting a P4 rig, you could go the inexpensive DDR route (as opposed to the not so inexpensive Rambust route) and get yourself a dual-channel chipset + 2 512 MB DIMMs, which if you go for Corsair PC-3200 (400 MHz), cost around $150 at NewEgg, if I remember correctly.

And the Granite Bay motherboards have 4 DIMMs, so that means a max of 2 GB without the need to replace an existing DIMM to make room for a bigger one.

I'd also recommend looking into Boxx and AlienWare, partly because you can't get Athlons from Dell.

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