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View Full Version : Painter X .. whats new??


brenly
02-07-2007, 01:16 AM
Id like to start a thread to convince myself and others why they need to get the upgrade. Lets compile a list of new and useful features in X because I cant find any so far..

3d3
02-07-2007, 06:09 AM
Real Bristle for the brushes and improved speed.

That is it... so little to preview.

Download the demo and kick the tires.


That is my next step before upgrading.

toastyovens
02-07-2007, 12:53 PM
Id like to start a thread to convince myself and others why they need to get the upgrade. Lets compile a list of new and useful features in X because I cant find any so far..

Good idea. Let's discuss this... We all have been waiting for a long time for this 'X Yo!' version and let's express our gripes and disapointments... Improved speed, real bristle, and several "how to be a painter hack by transforming photos into 'you own painting' features" and some other 'stuff'. I mean, that's it? How to be a pretentious hack painter features? C'mooonn.

Where's the Effects -> Orientation layers preview? Where's the custom brush keyboard shortcut? Where's .TGA with alpha export? Where's the frame stacks improvements? Where's the fix in Painter's broken script playback? Where's the improvement for the time wasting path editing tools? Selection tools? Mask tools? etc? etc..

And the most annoying of all, WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THINGS THAT IS HOLY HASN'T THE GENIUSESSESSESSS AT COREL GET RID OF THE CENTER VIEW BY CLICKING?!?! (Uninstalls Corel Painter X Yo! and digitally shreds the Painter X Yo! trial installer into zeros)

That's it, I'm not going to slap $229.00 USD for unnecessary superflous features. Painter IX.5 is good minus the useful features that we the users (not posers) really wanted and longed in the 'Wishlist for upcoming Painter Patch' (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=112&t=208276). (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=112&t=208276) (Don't the wizard ly programmers at corel ever read these post? I doubt it. So if you want to be a pretentious painter hack (YO!) buy Painter X YO! so you can turn photographs into "YOUR OWN" painting YO!. "Yo! I'm a genius! Yo! I'm so creative!,
Painter X YO! is DA SHIZZZNITT" X to the IZZO! YO! X! Painter X is XTREEME!! X!

Oh yeah and they can keep the X YO! paint can!
Thank you for destroying our hopes, Corel. :P

Mu
02-07-2007, 01:27 PM
hi toastyovens,

did you post your suggestions on the wishlist under a different pseudonym? Could you possibly point me to those posts, please?

I was trying to understand where your heartfelt grief stems from and wanted to check which of your helpful suggestions has been ignored exactly, but the user profile only lists 4 posts for some reason...:sad:

zerae
02-07-2007, 03:31 PM
At first I thought the real bristle would be cool to paint backgrounds but the brushes still pick colors outside the selections, I don't know whats useful to illustrators in this version. So far that I noticed, there's an enhanced brush ghost, turn photos into paintings brush system but I found it too complicated I have no idea how this works or the Photo Painting System, real bristle, I think the zoom and rotation are enhanced it does not do anti-aliasing but it's not as bad as in P6, Painter loads much faster than 9.5, apparently you can now save and share the workspace layouts, I think those are the only changes, the rest like the UI is still the same.

Corel should make this a free upgrade and not sell as a real new version, if they gave 9.5 for free to old custormers they should do the same for X.

rattsang
02-07-2007, 06:26 PM
things thats should have been addressed in the new version of painter:

Drevious (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=92840) Add the flow option for brushes like in PS, and maybe it softness . It gives SO MUCH possibilities in doing digital art, including matte paintings

PetriJ (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=107115) I wish you finally make the opacity to work like in photoshop.

RossH (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=147491) 1. Snap to grid (what is the point of a grid you can't snap to)
4. Drippy ink/paint (like watercolor diffusion, be nice if we could paint thick runny paint that starts dripping down the canvas)
5. Splatty paint (drop paint onto the canvas from a height... like Jackson Pollock. Paint splats and runs)
9. Ability to wet specific areas of the canvas (paint with water) without affecting painting, so you can control subsiquent wet-on-wet diffusion limits. Something we sort-of do with selections, but there's no fringing of color between the 'wet' and 'dry' areas.
12. Impasto takes account of paper texture ( after applying a thick brushstroke to lumpy paper, I want to be able to 'plow' away the paint again... although some paint should remain stuck in the dimples in the paper, only the crests should be removed of paint)

theCloudmover (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=87276) One request from me in the upcoming Patch, would be the ability to add multiple vanishing points to the PERSPECTIVE GRID. Even the addition of Two-Point Perspective would be better than what's there

Per-Anders (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=12603) i'm sorry, but something is either wrong with my install, or there is a bug in painter.

make a new document
make a new layer
click the make new layer mask button
select the layer mask
make a selection
use the fill tool (pick any color at all).
try and fill the selection.

nothing at all happens.

epoxy5 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=107561) The mixer pallette should be able to resize, right now it's way too small for my taste

Andre Jackson (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=23913) I'd like to see painter support transparency.

Infact, I'm fairly sure the reason why painter cannot reproduce the much coveted effect you get by altering photoshops brush opacity settings is because painter doesn't seem to support true transparency.

If you want an example (at least with painter 8, I don't have 9), create a layer above your canvas and start using a blending brush. Unlike photoshop where you will merely spread any paints you have on that layer around, you will actually pick up white, regardless of what the layer underneath happens to be. Of course, you can change the layer to pick up the underlying color, but that presents problems as well, as you will start 'erasing' the above layer as you are constantly sampling from the layer underneath.

Infact, you would be able to reproduce that markery effect in painter perfectly by altering the 'well' settings. The only problem is, since painter does not support real transparency, it picks color from the pixels where you begin your stroke and permanantly blends your primary color with it.

Of course, I know you'd never see that kind of enchancement in a mere patch. Software makers love to milk every cent they can out of the consumer, especially since making such drastic changes would actually require real effort. maybe in Painter X.

Brucie Rosch (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=15644) 3) I'd like to be able to show names of brushes (papers, etc.) in custom palettes, so I can name my favorite tools for my favorite tasks and workflow

catnip (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=42596) Also, how about being able to convert a file to grayscale from within Painter? That would help with bump maps, etc. I realize you can get the same effect by desaturating the image, but it's still RGB, which results in a larger file size. Right now, I use Photoshop to convert to grayscale.

Roja (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=52939)-Also a bug when you do a comp with multiple layers and you resize the canvas/work area. When you try to paint again on a layer, you are limited by the old area. The only thing you can do is to duplicate the layer and throw the old one.
the perspective tool

aadams (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=101749) I like it...but I would LOVE it if

Docmanic (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=208379) 1) I could have more than two planes...and the ability to control the spacing individually of them all...
2) multiple vanishing points
3) option for diagonals and or ellipses on the perspective grid
4) option to snap to perspective grid
5) stroke perspective grid to layer
6) stroke perspective grid to shape
1) How about an option to draw lines from perspective points that are off the screen? With snapping behavior such that you could start drawing at a point on screen and the line just runs straight from wherever you start drawing away or toward the perspective point?
2) I would love the option to make the color picker quite a bit bigger to make subtle adjustments easier.
3) Any chance of support for photoshop adjustment layers in the photoshop files?

Shizumauru (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=143677) 3) A ruler tool to quickly measure distances in px.

phd (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=44076) What would be useful is if the shift key constrained direction worked relative to the screen and not the paper, ie when rotating the paper, make horizontal relative to the screen, therefore straight lines of any angle could be achieved. Currently the straight lines are relative to the page, and so on rotated page the shift key constrains to the angle of the page, and when the page is straightened out a horizontal line is drawn.

note by me (also it would be handy if the angle of brushes didn't rotate with the paper, so you could use the pallette knife from a different angle just by rotating the page rather than having to change the settings for the brush)




things that were changed:

1. the eraser is now resizalbe same as the brush tool. 6/10 (mark for usefulness)

2. advanced brush ghosting 8/10

3. real bristle brushes 7/10 (interesting but no big deal)

4. composition aids 3/10 (as in the list above better perspective tools are needed)

5. changes to underpainting 0/10 (if i wanted to just change photos into painting, and i think i speak for everyone here when i say this, i would have saved myself some money and bought painter essenials)
smart stroke brushes same as above

6. improvements to mixer pallette 7/10 (a nice touch, especially for traditional painters)

7.workspace manager 7/10 (this is a interesting feature-not needed but useful)

8. autoback up 8/10 (much needed)

9. faster brushes (didnt notice- my comp 3.2ghz pen 4 2 gig ram)

10. burn/dodge tools 4/10 (not new but improved and handy placement)

11. New Match Palette effect 5/10 (nothing special)


and is it any more stable????? i still got as many crashes (USING DEFAULT SETTINGS)

i for one won't be upgrading (if you could call it that)

and i will never upgrade again untill at least some of these issues are sorted.

evanfotis
02-07-2007, 07:13 PM
At least, did they get rid of that hideous fingers startup screen and desktop icon? :-)

rattsang
02-07-2007, 07:56 PM
At least, did they get rid of that hideous fingers startup screen and desktop icon? :-)

wow thats worth the price of an upgrade :O

marlouin
02-07-2007, 08:35 PM
Took some time to try the demo.

Some other things fixed:
-better picture redraw (at least for mac os x, don't know how it was on windows)
-weird selection bug fixed

Things that bugged me and still here:
-scroll wheel zoom, can deactivate it, and I can't scroll with it on my layer list. I prefer to navigate in my picture, Photoshop is smarter with that (alt key for zooming)
-doesn't remember my eraser when I quit (so I have to reset it each time)
-psd files generated by painter can't be opened by most third-parties viewers (you get a white picture)
-when I open psd files I always have my guides supposed to be hidden (at least always hide them, I don't know)
& in the list above:
-names under brushes in custom palettes
-mask in painter ar garbage

There is still a lot of obvious things that should have been fixed... I'm disapointed.

New bug:
-icons disappear when I scroll in the layer palette

I think I like the new brush ghosting (how many times I was lost in my picture not seeing my thin pen brush).
About changing a photography into painting? huh What's the point?

That's all for now, I need to import my presets. Didn't play with workspaces either.

SylvanMist
02-07-2007, 10:38 PM
At least, did they get rid of that hideous fingers startup screen and desktop icon? :-)

lmao! let's hope so! :)

I also have to say I'm dissapointed in what's being offered in the upgrade. I agree with rattsang above who outlined many useful things that could have been fixed.
It seems like many commercial software upgrades just aren't worth it these days until a couple versions go by.

ThePhotographer
02-07-2007, 10:57 PM
I'll have to read all the posts here more in depth.

I'm still on Painter 8 which I thought quite good, particularly after 7 which in my opinion was not good at all. Painter 8 had all the usual little problems, but oh well ....

I really longed for a super duper Painter X though. I was not convinced about the version 9 superior to 8 that much. So I waited ....

For sure I don't care about all those photo copy features and what ever. The ONE thing I wait for is Painter to be 100 % stable and not just freeze now and then .... To be THEE painter tool. Brushes have to work without querks etc.

Also some better color correction features like in PhotoShop. Ok, you can still do that in PhotoShop, but if you wouldn't have to change software, it would be nice ....

JimGoshorn
02-07-2007, 11:22 PM
I admit I am a novice compared to the majority of users here so my observations may not be as comprehensive but here's what I saw on my Quad G5, 8gb RAM, OSX:

1. Brushes didn't seem all that much faster.

2. I turned off brush ghosting which displayed the pen tilt so it just displayed the brush cursor a la 9.5 because at one point after closing the brush creator the ghost brush graphic was displayed on the monitor and wouldn't move (even though the cursor moved and windows could be moved). This forced me to quit Painter to correct that redraw problem.

3. Tried the photo painting palette and it didn't do much for me. As a photographer I am interested in any help I can get starting the conversion but it basically seems to create an exaggerated blotchy under painting and then expects you to recover details with cloning. That's not what I call converting a photograph to a painting even though I am not an artist (my Dad was so I'm not ignorant of the basics). Also, I tried the smart brushes during the process and saw no difference.

4. The new bristle engine is interesting and more adjustable than just varying the feature setting in 9.5 for bristle control.

Long story short, the new release is better but I don't know that I would refer to it as a version and it certainly still has it's quirks. Have 29 days left to the trial but so far it's hard to justify $229 upgrade fee when new versions of Photoshop (with plenty of new features and improvements) go for $149.

Jim

toastyovens
02-08-2007, 01:58 AM
hi toastyovens,

did you post your suggestions on the wishlist under a different pseudonym?

Yup. But rattsang really hit the nail with his post.


Ok so I was mad. Sorry but I think the new Corel Painter X isn't worth the shiny colorful paint can it's packaged in. 299 USD for a paint can? Psshhh...

So EVERYONE. DON'T UPGRADE. And see what Corel has to say about their declining sales. It's apparent their new features are influenced by marketing gimmicks.
I'm off to upgrade my Photo Shop.

brenly
02-08-2007, 05:18 AM
At least, did they get rid of that hideous fingers startup screen and desktop icon? :-)
rattsang took the words out of my mouth ... this in itself is almost worth the upgrade

toastyovens ..Im inclined to agree with you ..

rattsang
02-08-2007, 10:11 AM
maybe they should ignore 'marketing' and just try to make the product better- it isn't hard there are plenty of bugs. to be honest i would have paid up to $800 for a decent upgrade- i don't mind paying for a good product, something that painter x is not- and i'll say it again if corel wanted to attract photographers shouldn't they have fixed even the colour correction tool- yes im gonna judge my compositional balance from a tiny unzoom-outable thumbnail because i'm not an artist/photographer i'm an idiot!!

brenly
02-08-2007, 11:15 AM
to be honest i would have paid up to $800 for a decent upgrade- i don't mind paying for a good product
Ill put up my hand aswell!!! A few fixes and I wouldnt have to worry about buying PS .. that way I could and would pay more for Painter.

SylvanMist
02-08-2007, 01:24 PM
Yup. But rattsang really hit the nail with his post.
Corel Painter X isn't worth the shiny colorful paint can it's packaged in. 299 USD for a paint can? Psshhh...


Actually it's $499 for the paintcan.

smoothoperator
02-08-2007, 05:43 PM
didn't they get some big names using a beta version of X and give thier input? Ryan Church was prob one of them.
I'm amazed that some of these things weren't fixed/added. I think the whole thing about the Photo paint over stuff is due to a Photography Expo coming up soon. And Corel probably sees that segment as a lucrative area for them. So they decided to release some version of Painter with this add on as an incentive to that market. In the meantime they're not listening to the artists using Painter for what it should be...a painting tool. Prob to be released later on in coming years? Dissappointing. I saw the new version and was excited only to find very little to make it better. :(
Back in the days it was hard to get feedback from the users...now with the internet these companies have no excuse. It's all here...and its' free and it will make your product better. What's the problem? lol

mosh
02-08-2007, 05:47 PM
Hey guys, did you post your list of requests directly via the official Corel site (there's a section for that purpose: wishlists) or did you only post here? If the second is the answer, now you know why they didn't take that features into account.

tayete
02-08-2007, 06:25 PM
Smooth, being a project manager myself I can only say this kind of things are inevitable nowadays. The complexity of the programs, the tight schedule fixed by the marketing dpts. and competence, makes it impossible to deliver a 100% bugfree program. Well, at least I know none since 1988 (even the Spectrum ones had bugs and exploits! - 48k programs, remember).

I have participated in several of Corel's beta testing programs, and I must say hundreds of bugs were found and fixed. Furthermore, suggestions both from the beta team and the audience in general (like this forum, for example) were deeply analyzed and integrated if considered worthy. I know some features added this way.

brenly
02-09-2007, 12:22 AM
S I know some features added this way.

Please tell!!!

Philippec
02-09-2007, 01:46 AM
Back in the days it was hard to get feedback from the users...now with the internet these companies have no excuse. It's all here...and its' free and it will make your product better. What's the problem? lol

You know what they say about herding cats? :-)

User feedback is valuable, but should be taken with a large dose of salt. It follows the 20/80 rule: most users can agree on a common 20% of the app that they all use, and the remaining 80% differs from user to user.

So while it can be sad that your pet bug (quirk, really) did not get fixed this time around, you have to realize that all the (known) bugs are put in order of priority then worked on, in a finite amount of time.

If you try to please everyone, you never ship.

Obviously there are several people on this forum that are dissatisfied and said they would not upgrade. And that's fine, it's their choice. Some don't care about photo-painting because they know how to draw. Well, guess what, there are lots of other people for which SmartStrokes is a godsend and will buy the app simply based on that!

Schools and multi-user environments are delighted that Painter's individual footprint (disk space per user) is greatly reduced.

New users love the enhanced brush ghost, and the real-time feedback it gives them.

I believe it's the best version of Painter yet. And I say that knowing that Painter IX.5 set the bar pretty high; it's the version that got most Painter 6 users to upgrade. Painter 6 was great but also very dated.

evanfotis
02-09-2007, 10:04 AM
On my oldie PII I have Painter 7 still installed, and to be honest, most of my best work was done on that machine with that Painter version...

Painter 9 is way better, more Photoshop compatible and with a more efficient interface.

The thing is, if one uses Painter to sketch, paint even old versions will do the job just fine, excluding the stability issues :-)
If one wants Photoshop tools and conveniences, well...

BTW, has anything changed in PainterX in the scripts area, or is it the same?

tayete
02-09-2007, 12:05 PM
Please tell!!!

So sorry, I signed a CDA about anything related to the beta program and the features...

rattsang
02-09-2007, 12:41 PM
Hey guys, did you post your list of requests directly via the official Corel site (there's a section for that purpose: wishlists) or did you only post here? If the second is the answer, now you know why they didn't take that features into account.

have you got an addresss for this wishlist......... i might just be blind but i could not find it :)

Hecartha
02-09-2007, 01:05 PM
Hey guys, did you post your list of requests directly via the official Corel site (there's a section for that purpose: wishlists) or did you only post here? If the second is the answer, now you know why they didn't take that features into account.
i don't think it was the problem, people from Corel are lurking here because after my post here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=112&t=460236&page=1) one guy from Corel send me a mail to correct some misinformation i posted and to know more about one bug i described.
I admit i sent 2 mails concerning painter IX.5 and Wacom ToolID to this guy there is now two weeks. He replied to the first one and no reply to the second...now i replied to his last mail and again no reply, no just a thanks because i took the time to describe a bug (with text and a video)...so i think they know well our wish list

brenly
02-09-2007, 05:01 PM
So sorry, I signed a CDA about anything related to the beta program and the features...

so all the bug fixes are top secret .. nice one!!
lame

Jinbrown
02-10-2007, 12:07 PM
brenly,

It's standard practice for Beta testers to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement stating they'll not talk about anything that goes on during Beta testing, both while Beta testing is in progress and any time after it's finished and the software version is released.

I don't know how public Beta testing is handled, but if there's any kind of agreement that has to be signed, I'd expect it to be different. And, I would guess it varies from company to company.

Painter's Beta testing, obviously, was not public.

Bug fixes are obvious to people who used the previous version, know the program, and use the new version.

..................

Glenfx
02-10-2007, 04:15 PM
I still regret the fact i "upgraded" from painter 8 to painter 9, i liked 8 better but im stuck with 9 now, was also hoping to see cool fixes in the new version.
I wonder how corel will do in sales with this version.


EDIT:
Just read this on the description... and i think it just summs it all up

Windows Vista Support: Corel Painter X is compatible with Microsoft's latest operating system - Windows Vista.

brenly
02-11-2007, 06:38 AM
brenly,

It's standard practice for Beta testers to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement stating they'll not talk about anything that goes on during Beta testing, both while Beta testing is in progress and any time after it's finished and the software version is released.

Bug fixes are obvious to people who used the previous version, know the program, and use the new version.
..................

Im well aware of the Non Disclosure Agreement legalities, I have to abide by them with alot work that I do. What would be nice is if Corel would make public critical bug fixes. Its common practice for a lot of other professional software out there to do that. It shouldnt be up to the user to note all the bugs they come across and then check that they have been addressed in the next upgrade. Alot of people just dont have time to mess around checking if the next upgrade is worth it.

ThePixelDoc
02-11-2007, 11:26 AM
....and post here. I'm normally a casual "lurker", mostly agreeing with what has already been said, and not finding the time or energy to contribute myself... if even to concur. Anyway.... I'm going to way in here on my opinion of this upgrade... which should technically be called a "patch". With that said, you may already have figured out my opinion: "X" IS A WASTE OF MONEY, RESOURCES, PROGRAMMING "ability", ... and to sum it up most importantly, A WASTE OF MY...and speaking for other pro artists out there...OUR VALUABLE TIME! That's what it's about today more than ever...TIME!

1) Apparently Corel does recognize this, since claiming spead improvement. Oh really?! When and with what brushes? My old versions of V5, V6 nad V8 are still faster!!! Running a CoreDuo Mac and 3ghz P4, each with over 3 gigs of RAM...and with pro vidcards. So? What does X do? Delay my bloody strokes...STILL! What do I do? Start up 5 or 6 and block in my painting....and decide to finish it right there, regardless of the assorted bugs and work arounds that I've managed to deal with patiently over the years.

2) After reading over the past year all of the fantastic suggestions under the Painter Patch Wishlist thread, and noticing that there was even some participation from Corel... I thought, "GREAT!....this is gonna be good...FINALLY! The beauty of community on the net". However, surprise, loaded the new version, and guess what? ALL THE SAME as V9 & 9.5. Unbelievable! Even this website has a better, more intuitive and "real-estate aware" usability than the old clunky window panes in Painter! I sit in front of my 23" Mac monitor, and stare at a 17" empty bar across the top of the program between Brush settings and Brush Selectors. Nothing there, and can't put anything "pleasantly" there either. Also: Can't resize the Cutom palette or the color set to use only one row horizontal or vertical... or "dock" it. How freakin hard is that to program anyway????

Hey you Corel people: ya ever take a look at some of the user interfaces out there... including your own, such as CorelDraw with it's dockable color sets at least? Take a look at the interfaces of PhotoShop, Apperture, Lightroom... the old Macromedia programs Dreamweaver and Freehand (on the PC side that is... the Mac side was left behind in muti-sided Docks). ... or how 'bout this site? Nice implementation of dropdown, spring-loaded menus. Wouldn't it be nice to play with the big boys and sdesign a "professional user" interface that people talk about and try to emulate?

Running out of time here.... but last but not least, I want to state that "I" am aware of marketing and sales concerns, so I'll allow and accept the developement of "artwork in 10 minutes from your photo" hack brushes. BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF US.... the daily users who paint, draw and illustrate (for over 20 years now!) using the computer as our tool of choice, and out of the necessity of ever shorter deadlines. We have supported you in the face of competition for years now. Is too much to ask not to insult our intelligence, rob us of our hard earned money, and worst of all... waste our time with sad excuses for an upgrade. Painter 9.6 or maybe 9.7. "X" or 10...it is not! This is blatant false advertising that is only allowed with software... unfortunately. New and Improved for 200 bucks? You are joking!

So far as I can see... less than 2% of the suggestions from this board have been taken into account and implemented. Do you people at Corel know or value how much total time and effort from this community has been spent on this subject? Do you care? I would summize:NOT!

Enough already... I have to get back to "work"... something fast illustrators seem to have too much of... and back to struggling with the bugs of Painter's previous owners. Sad!... but still makes me money instead of unnecessarily wasting it...

(edited) ...on so-called "Upgrades" like 10 is called and supposed to be.

toastyovens
02-13-2007, 02:13 AM
^^^^^

Good post.

I use Corel Draw/PhotoPaint too and the interface is WAY better than Painter's. One of the best I ever used. The ONLY drawback that kept me from seriously using it is it's lack of keyboard brush control. And aren't they the same company? Why then haven't they copied
Corel PhotoPaint instead of PhotoShop?

The brush performance improvements in this 'X' version is infinitissimal. Not worth the upgrade. And all of the upgrade features has a workaround in IX.5. And by the way why are they using this Roman letters after version 8? Why they don't just call it 10 like other companies do? Is this a cheap marketing hype to lure in gullible novice users? It's because 'X' sounds cool isn't it? So all the hacks and Pro wannabes can buy the software and cheat by using their autopainting features and call that 'their art.' Pffffftttttt! :P


"Wow! A free paintcan!! This is uber cool! This is soo artsy!"

What a load of crock! Don't believe the hype.

Philippec
02-13-2007, 02:27 AM
And all of the upgrade features has a workaround in IX.5.

Not RealBristle. Not SmartStrokes (but we know how you feel about that). Not Universal Mixer. Not Works With Vista. Not Universal Binary for Mac. Not Workspace customization (turn on-off contents, reorder at will). And there is more.

You could share content before, but it was tedious and error-prone (not to mention un-crossplatform). The Workspace Manager makes it trivial: click to export, double-click to import.

"Wow! A free paintcan!! This is uber cool! This is soo artsy!"

Painter used to come in a paint can. This is just something that some users have wanted for a long time.

Jinbrown
02-13-2007, 03:04 AM
toastyovens,

It's tempting to get pulled into an insult fest, but it's not fun for me and not something I choose to waste my time on.

I will tell you, happily, that I own a collection of Painter cans, from Painter 4 through Painter 6 and one a friend sent me for Painter 2. Wish I had all of them from the beginning, but I didn't know about Fractal Design Painter until version 4 and the Painter can packaging stopped later on, much to our dismay (those of us who enjoyed the can packing, that is). The Painter can is exactly what caught my attention on the software shelf when I had no idea Painter existed.

I'd be delighted to own a Painter X can too.

I love Painter and always have since the first night Painter 4 was installed on my computer 12 years ago so it's a kind of sentimental thing to collect the cans.

Maybe you have some silly thing you do just because it makes you happy? Maybe not.


It's curious that you guys have so much energy and time to put into knocking Painter and knocking Corel. I'd have thought, being professionals, you'd have too much work to do. Maybe not.


In any case,


Cheers!

brenly
02-13-2007, 03:30 AM
The Painter can is exactly what caught my attention on the software shelf when I had no idea Painter existed.


so sad but true! Gimmicks do work ... I lost my paint can years ago ...

ThePixelDoc (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=267143) .. nicely summed up

toastyovens
02-13-2007, 01:18 PM
toastyovens,

Maybe you have some silly thing you do just because it makes you happy? Maybe not.

It's curious that you guys have so much energy and time to put into knocking Painter and knocking Corel. I'd have thought, being professionals, you'd have too much work to do. Maybe not.


In any case,


Cheers!

Okay, I admit I was luuuuured at first when I saw the Paint Can and thought wow! BUT when I see the features list and downloaded the 'X' I was utterly disappointed. THAT'S when I thought it was gimicky. I would BUY it if it has even SOME of the features that wouldn't make me go back and forth to PS, so there was no need for me to upgrade.

And it doesn't take me that much energy and time to write that up. Less than 5 minutes. I was backing up to dvds at the moment in my work comp so no time lost.

Not RealBristle. Not SmartStrokes (but we know how you feel about that). Not Universal Mixer. Not Works With Vista. Not Universal Binary for Mac. Not Workspace customization (turn on-off contents, reorder at will). And there is more.

RealBristle? You have to use 6D pen for that. I don't have 70.00 USD lying around so that's moot. By the way some of the best pros creating astounding work of digital art using Painter don't have to depend on 6d pens.

SmartStrokes. EEEWWWW. But I guess posers and hacks would like this feature.

Not Works With Vista. Uh yeah. But I don't use Vista. I use XP pro. I'm pretty content with it because I know how to maintain it and it gets the job done in time and I don't want to upgrade it anytime soon so....

Not Universal Binary for Mac. See above.

Not Workspace customization (turn on-off contents, reorder at will).

This is not a big important everyday-use feature... Other apps have been using it for years and it took them 10 versions to finally use it. It's not a big of a deal anyway I can reorder my workspace manually. Besides it's not like I have to use it everyday or something.

And there is more.

Like collapsing group of layers? There's a simple workaround. Brush ghosting I use ctrl+k and click on enable brush ghosting, it's a workaround at least. That incremental backup feature I can do it manually. Look I have used these other 'new' features and it's not a big of a deal and it doesn't justify for a 299.00 USD for ME.

It's more of like a Corel Painter IX.75 to me. When I don't have to go back and forth to PS just to fix little things that's when I would consider upgrading.

jimmy-paillet
02-13-2007, 02:47 PM
Come on it's not about knocking down Painter or Corel neither standing up for them no matter what...if people are here, that's because they like the program...and that's probably why some people are frustrated here...it is obvious to a lot a people how to improve the program with some small things (see the wishlist and how there is a consensus about certain needs)...but nothing happens and instead unrequested (or very little) new features are appearing...

this kind of thread is there to help people having an opinion on the upgrade...
not everyone is professionnal here, so 229$ is a lot of money...

so are the new improvements valuable?

Realbristle: nice, but doesn't Painter already have too many brushes already?...with that amount of brushes you are hiding the fact that a simple round brush with pen pressure is sufficient to do magnificent art, and scaring new users that spend hours trying not to lose themselves in the brush menu...and having them to think that without the RIGHT brush there will be unable to paint...

Workspace manager: i honestly ask: what is the fuss about that? my workspace is something very personal and there is no reason why people will like to use it or why i should have the one of Mr Y....this is a matter of taste....
As for reorganizing the workspace, custom palettes are doing a much better job, and this is a killer feature in Painter imo, so i guess there was not a lot of expectations on this side...

Composition: Very nice, probably the coolest thing...but while you're at it why not add the possibility of having several perspective grids? then you can work in 2-points or 3-points perspective...

dodge, burn, photo-painting...don't really think people on this board are interested by that...let us have the smart part of the smart strokes not the computer...tools like that are doing nothing more that increasing the popular belief that digital art is less than traditional art because "the computer is doing all the work" and is it believable that some average joe will spend more than 400$ to turn his holiday pictures into paintings?

Mac people would probably consider it since it's UB...

The IX version was a good purchase because in my case Painter 8 was buggy as hell...and the 9/9.5 is almost as rock solid as photoshop on my computer...
Giving the patch IX.5 was free, and giving such cool things as dual monitor support...
it is not unreasonable to wonder about the use of spending 229$ on the update....and discuss it....


simply adding a resizeable Color palette/Mixer and the ability to shortcut the brush menu would have make a lot of people happy...

but as i said...i just still enjoy opening my Painter IX.5...
it could easily overthrone the domination of Photoshop with specific enhancements, but probably not with this new version...

acmepixel
02-13-2007, 04:50 PM
If palette size is a problem, you can use a palette monitor. I use 3 monitors, 1200x1600 main monitor in the middle with 2, 17's on either side.

I can resize a monitor with one click (on a Mac). By shrinking a display from 1024 to 800 has the effect of zooming the items displayed.

I do this in Photoshop too, because Adobe products have the irritating tendency to make palette type too small to read at large display sizes.

Of course this is no solution for Tablet PC, or laptop users. But for workstation users it makes use of all those old CRT's lying around, especially in this day-and-age of dual-head video cards.

rattsang
02-13-2007, 06:34 PM
sry double post

rattsang
02-13-2007, 06:43 PM
If palette size is a problem, you can use a palette monitor. I use 3 monitors, 1200x1600 main monitor in the middle with 2, 17's on either side.

I can resize a monitor with one click (on a Mac). By shrinking a display from 1024 to 800 has the effect of zooming the items displayed.

I do this in Photoshop too, because Adobe products have the irritating tendency to make palette type too small to read at large display sizes.

Of course this is no solution for Tablet PC, or laptop users. But for workstation users it makes use of all those old CRT's lying around, especially in this day-and-age of dual-head video cards.

i can see where your coming from with the color pallette, but it wouldn't have been that hard for corel to increase the size of it either. i've nothing againts corel i think there a very innovative software company- i love my copy of painter 9.5 and if some of the instability issues and small fixes like the color pallette and maybe multiple perspective points- that would have been worth $250 odd .......... but some changes that were requested were obvious and practial and realitivly simple, like the sizable color pallette....... im not angry or am i giving out, im just sorely dissappointed.

Jinbrown
02-13-2007, 10:13 PM
Hi guys,

Thanks for your most recent posts. They seem far more reasonable than some previous posts and it's certainly fair for each of you to have your own specific needs and work habits. I do too.

While you don't need or want some of the features in Painter X, a lot of people do, and many of them are professionals, certainly not hacks or posers.

I know, for instance, several photographers who also have a traditional painting background. They've earned good money for their traditional paintings and earn good money for their digital portrait paintings based on photos. Their work is quite respectable, showing an eye for color, composition, perspective, and a talent for painting.

What you may consider hobbyist focused features (Underpainting, Auto-Painting, and Restoration palettes), are not only used by hobbyists. They're used by talented traditional painters and photographers now working with digital media.... and by others who use Painter for professional work.

For instance, I use them, along with other Painter features as another way to create Patterns and Papers that can later be used in my art. The techniques I develop can be taught to other Painter users and they can adapt the techniques for use in their own art.

While those three palettes were new in Painter Essentials 3, then added in Painter IX.5 and now improved in Painter X, much of what can be done with them could be done in several earlier Painter versions using other features some of you may never have noticed were in those earlier Painter versions.

The three palettes just make it easier for beginners. We were all beginners at one point and anything that makes it easier to get started is a blessing.

Certainly Photoshop has what some of us may think of as gimmicks, filters that are, unless used by a highly skilled artist, easily recognizable in the finished art and often thought of as producing "push-button art".

Both Photoshop and Painter include a wide enough range of features and capabilities to answer the needs of an equally wide range of users, from hobbyist to professional, with talent ranging from next to none up to incredible.

As others have said, no one is required to purchase any software upgrade unless their job demands it. I worked for 28 years as an illustrator/graphic artist/technical writer and for the past 9 years have spent more than full time with Painter and Painter users. Because I do have that time and choose to spend it that way, it's important for me to have each new Painter version in order to answer questions and teach the software.

Even if not for those reasons, if I had the money, I would upgrade to each new Painter version because I thoroughly enjoy keeping up to date on what can be done with this great software. It's so much fun discovering new ways to do things and it's a true statement that Painter has, not for a second in 12 years, ever left me feeling bored.

As to the new Workspace feature, I'm very grateful to have it. It will help me to help new Painter users manage their brushes, art materials, palette layouts, etc. That has been an ongoing and difficult task because the brush management alone in addition to sharing custom brushes has been extremely confusing to a good many Painter users, including people posting to this forum. I've spent countless hours writing instructions to unscramble both the way custom brush variants were shared and the way users have "installed" them resulting in not being able to use them at all, not even load them into Painter.

For instructors teaching Painter, sharing a Workspace will be a great way to get their students started "singing from the same song sheet", so to speak.


I currently have several Workspaces, some backed up outside of the Painter X application/program folder and Painter X User folder.

Recently, when I tried something that caused Painter X to freak out (my fault, not Painter's... I knew in advance that might happen when I edited a Painter file), I had to delete my Workspaces then hold down the Shift key while launching Painter X to restore it to its installed state. I was then able to quickly copy and paste backed up Workspace folders into my Painter X User folder and everything was back to normal. Easy, uncomplicated, and quick!

Painter X new features are not all quickly noticed and certainly not all quickly understood. Because of this, it's easy for people spending a day or two with Painter X to make assumptions that are often mistaken. As I read the forums around the Painter community, people using the Painter X trial version are "seeing the light" a little more each day. Gradually, the new features will be better understood and better appreciated, whether or not each person needs them for their own work.

Thanks again for a calmer and nicer exchange.

....................

toastyovens
02-15-2007, 01:26 AM
Okay I concur. I was a little bit too harsh. And I am very sorry for all this. What makes me changed my tone is that I borrowed a 6d pen from a friend of mine and I have to say Im impressed with what it can do in the 'X'. So impressed I already ordered one. Not the 'X' but the pen.

Having said that, I'm not going to upgrade until some of the SIMPLE features are added. Like effects preview and other small annoying things, like click center document which I find the most annoying thing and surprisingly wasn't removed in the 'X'. That is all I ask. These simple things are enough to make me want to upgrade.

And it bugs me the most that Corel focused on other 'new' unimportant things like smartstroke instead of these small important little things.

In the meantime I'm content with what Painter IX.5. can do but sadly not without PS for even the smallest of things.

So, next time don't get our hopes up by asking us brilliant suggestions for an 'upcoming Painter patch'.

brenly
02-15-2007, 04:02 AM
Having said that, I'm not going to upgrade until some of the SIMPLE features are added. Like effects preview and other small annoying things

In the meantime I'm content with what Painter IX.5. can do but sadly not without PS for even the smallest of things.

So, next time don't get our hopes up by asking us brilliant suggestions for an 'upcoming Painter patch'.




My sentiments!

Youve got me interested in the 6D pen!

toastyovens
02-15-2007, 07:28 PM
Okay now the question is, what happens to the Wishlist for upcoming Painter IX patch now that Painter X has finally arrived? Does someone start a Wishlist for upcoming Painter X patch? lol
Do the Wishlist for upcoming Painter IX patch get axed? When, if any, will be the next 'X' patch be announced?

What then, happens to all the brilliant suggestions in there? Will the suggestions be disregarded and continue to fall into the bottomless pit of user requests? Or will a hero rise from the cubicles of the Corel office and champion our cause?

Only time will tell. :|

Lunatique
02-16-2007, 03:28 AM
It's probably best to start a brand new wishlist for Painter X patches? Just renaming the old thread would seem a bit pointless since Corel's read it already. I dunno--what do you guys think?

brenly
02-16-2007, 04:01 AM
my question ... is it worth it?? they didnt seem to read the last one. the old one I think still applies.

tomt
02-16-2007, 06:01 AM
I'll second Robert Chang's suggestion for a new wish list. I've been a Painter user since version 2 and there are still some things I'd like to see improved, although Painter X is far and away a better version than IX.5.

Reading some of the posts here, there are a lot of complaints regarding not enough new features and what not, and not being worth the upgrade price. Seems like deju vu all over again. Saw the same gripes when IX and then IX.5 came out. I imagine that most of the new complaints came from folks that have the IX.5 version and gotta wonder how long it took them to bite the bullet and upgrade to IX.5. Once Painter X has been around for awhile, and version XI comes out, I imagine we'll see the same gripes again. The wheel goes round and round. Keeps things from being dull. Have fun.

dougbot
02-16-2007, 08:22 AM
I'm actually digging X right now. I'm close to halfway through my trial period. I've been using it at work and home (I'm a concept artist for a game company called Arena.net). You can see some X sketches here: http://dougblot.blogspot.com/ , not too many though. I've done about 10 other paintings on it for work (NDA).

I don't have a 6-D pen, but really like the real bristle brushes, they're everything I was hoping that the artist oils would be in 9.5. Workspace importing/exporting is almost worth the price alone. I like to hold off on a full review until after the trial, but so far I think it's worth the upgrade. I feel like it is faster, maybe wishful thinking, but it does seem to be.

For me personally I feel like I need both PS and Painter. Both do different things. There's lots that PS can not do that Painter can, and vice versa. I can't imagine a time when I wouldn't need both.

Painter fits more my style, it's probably not for everyone. If you want a more PS feel, then use PS. Don't expect Painter to suddenly become PS. It's like complaining that your acrylics don't act more like oils.

steve_szoczei
02-18-2007, 04:55 PM
As a lurker in these parts, I fully encourage y'all to create a new discussion thread regarding enhancements desired for future versions of Painter, either for a patch to X or as stuff for a next version of the application.

For those of you that don't know who I am, Hi... I'm Steve from Corel... And I am one of the folks responsible for the design and development of Painter... And to answer the age old question of whether someone from the Painter team at Corel reads your postings... well YES... I do... everyday!

And do the requests, ideas etc that are made in these discussions impact the design of Painter? Hell yes! It's through all of these discussions here and in several other arenas that the development of Painter comes from. An innappropriate amount of my time is spent chatting with folks to understand how they use Painter, and work with folks to design the best product we can. And with Painter X, we think we have a great product, but witht he discussion I have read here, there is work to do to make it even better.

So as the discussion here has been mixed regarding Painter X, I have been reading all of your posts and while I have been somewhat shocked by the response at some points, I have taken note of many issues, and I cn tell you that investigtions are being made into them.

While I cannot guarantee any resolution of issues, I fully encourage the discussion, as this will help to identify areas that should be looked into.

Sound good to y'all? And if you wish to contact me directly, you can drop me a line at steve.szoczei@corel.com

cheers

Jinbrown
02-19-2007, 03:40 AM
Hi Steve,

Thanks for posting. It's always good to hear from you and I agree, a new thread to include suggestions for future Painter releases or a Painter X patch is a good idea.

I think you'll notice that as time passes and people have begun to use Painter X and understand what it offers, their responses are far more positive.

Anyone posting negatives after only a couple of days, obviously has not had that time to use and understand Painter X.

I'm loving it, but you know that already.

Cheers!

brenly
02-19-2007, 06:31 AM
Before starting another wishlist .. maybe someone can collate the first one so that we dont have to go over the same ground again and again!


Infact I recon there are plenty of ideas in the current wishlist for Corel to work off ... I dont know why Corel wants another one???

Mu
02-19-2007, 08:20 AM
An innappropriate amount of my time is spent chatting with folks to understand how they use Painter

LOL...:scream:

Infact I recon there are plenty of ideas in the current wishlist for Corel to work off ... I dont know why Corel wants another one???

I guess a new list could incorporate things you come across after having used Painter X for a while and knowing its functionalities and shortcomings better (in depth) than after a 30 day period of testing.

Maybe you find things that are more urgent for you than other things in the old wishlist.

brenly
02-19-2007, 09:48 AM
I guess a new list could incorporate things you come across after having used Painter X for a while and knowing its functionalities and shortcomings better (in depth) than after a 30 day period of testing.

Maybe you find things that are more urgent for you than other things in the old wishlist.

well here is the problem .. I started this thread in hope to find a reason to go and purchase X but Im still waiting for someone anyone to say .. hey guys guess what Corel has fixed this bug, Painter has this new hidden feature ... Im still waiting!! my 30 days of hunting left me with nothing. Thats why I have called out to the larger Painter community.

Mu .. what have you found ... why is X so much better then IX.5 ..

Jinbrown
02-19-2007, 09:59 AM
well here is the problem .. I started this thread in hope to find a reason to go and purchase X but Im still waiting for someone anyone to say .. hey guys guess what Corel has fixed this bug, Painter has this new hidden feature ... Im still waiting!! my 30 days of hunting left me with nothing.


Your "30 days of hunting", brenly?

Um.... just when did that 30 days begin? Before Painter X was released?

If so, how did you get the opportunity to spend 30 days hunting in Painter X, starting before it was released?

Painter X was announced on Tuesday, February 6, 2007 (http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Content/1153321430604?pressId=1170190225079). That makes today the 14th day, including the day it was released and counting today, though it's only a little after 2:00 am here in California.



Thats why I have called out to the larger Painter community.



brenly quote, originally posted 02-06-2007, 05:16 PM California time (Tuesday, February 6, 2007), the same day Corel announced Painter X:

Id like to start a thread to convince myself and others why they need to get the upgrade. Lets compile a list of new and useful features in X because I cant find any so far..

It seems you "called out to the larger Painter community" only a few hours after Corel announced Painter X. Again, how the heck did you manage to squeeze in "30 days of hunting" in such a short time?

Or have I just misunderstand what you said in your last post?


;)

rattsang
02-19-2007, 11:13 AM
i have found after more use that the bristle brushes (OIL) are alot better than b4. still having problems with the line tool though- almost always crashes with extensive use. which is a pity really. i find that alot of brushes that never lagged in 9.5 are lagging slightly in x (i have the advanced brush ghosting enabled) and find this irrritating. i think the reason i am (and some others) are disappointed with this release, is because first off painter 9.5 was soooo good and second off it seems slower not faster as stated (of course this is with new features- so i would expect it, what i would not expect is to be told it is faster) and third many of the same annoying small bugs are still there (new layer>canvas resize layer not filling the canvas correctly) ect...............

i dunno about anyone else but new features dont impress me- improving, fixing and upgrading existing features ( especially as painter already has a wealth of brushes ect) seem more worthy of my money

rat

Mu
02-19-2007, 11:16 AM
Mu .. what have you found ... why is X so much better then IX.5 ..


oops? Where did I say so? I guess most of my posts since the PainterX uproar around here started have been about takin things easy and maybe not bothering about a product that does not sound appealing to you (you being the general you here...)

In fact, Painter X might or might not be worth an update. I couldn't care less, being quite content with what I have (IX.5) and not being able to spend my money on a software update atm (so many other enjoyable things to spend money on (http://www.lakewood.de/en/models_series.php?series=deluxe&id=3)... :D )

BUT:

I certainly knew that I would totally love the workspace manager, for one thing.
And the composition tools looked so nice I tried to poorly emulate them with image portfolios.

Each to his own. I just wish the whining would tone down a bit. It's been a bit noisy in here recently.

brenly
02-19-2007, 11:42 AM
It seems you "called out to the larger Painter community" only a few hours after Corel announced Painter X. Again, how the heck did you manage to squeeze in "30 days of hunting" in such a short time?

Or have I just misunderstand what you said in your last post?

;)


lol ...

ok .. honestly I got the trial version as soon as it was made available. searched for things that were requested in the wishlist found none and started this thread in hope that there was something I was missing .. John Derry mentioned somewhere that it was the little things that count in X .. something to that nature. But apart from the obvious no one has mentioned anything new ..

I cant even be bothered opening up X ... Ive manged this long with 9.5 and PS, Ill just keep on until something better comes along.


thanks ...

Tim3308
02-19-2007, 08:15 PM
lol ...

But apart from the obvious no one has mentioned anything new ..

thanks ...

Forgive me , if any of this is "obvious":

My 3 reasons for upgrading:

1. The improved color management. I have been battling Painter and Photoshop combination since P7 through P9.5, w/ the hope of each release fixing the problems.

I think PX has finally done it. In the past, P's CM did not fully support ICC's like Adobe RGB. Use Adobe RGB in your CM and the blacks got smoked out. So through 3 and half versions nothing changed that I could tell. I had to "dumb down" PS and figure out how to work on not work the CM in Painter. The worst offense --w/ oil brushes and my settings in Painter if CM was toggled on, in about 10 minutes the program began to seriously lag. In the color picker the selector began to not follow the cursor and eventually would slide around on it's own, like it was slippery. Frustrating to say the least. Years ago I was on the phone w/ Corel and confirmed this "bug" w/ a tech and nothing changed.

My work around was this: I finally discovered through t & e and little to no documentation that Painter showed images basically in sRGB ( a clipping RGB to say the least), w/ perceptual rendering intent. So I used these setting in Photoshop to "mimic" Painter when I moved images into PS and back and forth. This way I did not have to toggle on CM in Painter (which would make the program bog down as mentioned). To sum up CM was unusable for me.

Now w/ PX, I feel like the sun has come out. I can now set any RGB space I want in painter (Adobe RGB's blacks are supported!), my monitor profile, rendering intent in P's CM and the image looks EXACTLY The same in PS --Eureka ...and I still have seen no bog down problems. Also if you work in an image w/ CM toggled on, it automatically opened up w/ CM on when you open the file or start the program again. Painter's CM has finally grown up. I'd buy X alone for this feature now working.

2. The Real brushes are a break through compared to "Artists Oils" --which I never warmed up to. They will gain great popularity. They will also sell lots of Wacom 6D pens. Mine should be here tomorrow. I still wonder about the "grain" stetting working in Real Brushes?

3. Universal Binary for Mac...for obvious reasons.


Negatives -- the enhanced brush ghosting bogs the program down. The "undos" are randomly slower than in 9.5 --which has me concerned. Selection lasso still "gives up the ghost" in long selections and just stops selecting as one draws around.

I still have not got an answer about RAM (I've also e-mailed Corel w/ out an answer). Are the handcuffs off and can Painter X use more than 2 GB of RAM in OS X?

Anyway, those are my reasons to upgrade to PX.

T i m

brenly
02-20-2007, 06:20 AM
Tim .. u started off so well .. why did you have to ruin it by throwing the negatives!

Tim3308
02-20-2007, 04:23 PM
Tim .. u started off so well .. why did you have to ruin it by throwing the negatives!

Brenly, I can not escape the laws of the universe.

T i m

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