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toonafish
02-06-2007, 03:15 PM
I've noticed XSi 6 is a lot ( and I mean a lot ) buggier then 5.11.

I've had a lot of crashes with freezing and objects stack, crashes while I was trying to save a scene, crashes while I was loading a scene or simply closing XSI.

But now I have a scene where XSI gives me the Geometry Approximation of a random object when I select a one with the properties panel open.

What's up with that ??

xsitar
02-06-2007, 04:49 PM
unfortunately importing .3ds or .obj files is buggy too. .3ds halts on the first popup box and doesn't load at all. while .obj either gets messed up during import or export (triangulated, etc.).

i wish they'd release an update to fix all of this asap. the long existing features shouldn't get buggy with a new version.

toonafish
02-06-2007, 09:41 PM
And Iges import also causes a crash I just found out...:sad:

SovereignKnight
02-06-2007, 10:33 PM
I've been noticing this too. I've been following the threads here on CGTalk and XSIBase, and although everyone is having major problems with 6, Softimage (to my knowledge) hasn't said a single word about any of it.

It's very frustrating that I can't even import a stupid .3ds file. I mean, how hard could that be? Forget about IGES. Even something as simple as dragging a shader from the toolbar into the tree crashed XSI back to the desktop.

I can't believe I spent $500 on beta software.

By the way, if anyone knows where I can get quality Star Wars meshes that aren't in ancient .3ds or buggy-ass .obj format, could you let me know? Thanks.

ThE_JacO
02-07-2007, 12:29 AM
I've been noticing this too. I've been following the threads here on CGTalk and XSIBase, and although everyone is having major problems with 6, Softimage (to my knowledge) hasn't said a single word about any of it.
Soft isn't kept to following every single thread in two indipendant forums, and they don't exactly because they are busy polishing v6.
Through other channels (like the mailing list) they did communicate about it, gave workarounds, acknowledged some things and demystified others, and also said that a minor release to fix it is under development and shouldn't be too long.
from the fairly common instability of a .0 release to saying "everyone is having major problems with it" because of some forum whinging on xsibase the step is long and shaky.

It's very frustrating that I can't even import a stupid .3ds file. I mean, how hard could that be? Forget about IGES.
very, it's the crappiest format of all times, and as soon as discreet is involved in anything format related it's always thorns and blood.

Even something as simple as dragging a shader from the toolbar into the tree crashed XSI back to the desktop.
did you log ANY of these bugs?
beside the fact I've never had the problem you have (but then I don't have 70% or more of the problems I see complaints about), Soft can't fix something they don't know about or can't repro.
No company roams the forums all day in the attempt to gather all possible complains to then assign them to a 200people QA team who will try to repro them.

I can't believe I spent $500 on beta software.
I can't believe you only spent 500$ for it ;)
how much is angst, how much is user error, and how much is it bad software tho?

krisr
02-07-2007, 04:04 AM
A little patience guys. Everyone is in v6 pain right now.....Loving it and hating it. I'm sure a fix will be out very soon. For anyone with support, please log your bugs on the soft site:

http://www.softimage.com/support/support_services/request_form/default.aspx

LemonNado
02-07-2007, 11:52 AM
Yes, there is a lot of work going on. Don't think they drop a release and then hide for a year. Hasn't been for 4.0 which became the cool 4.2 and hasn't been for the great 5.11. Rumors say that all the coffee in Montreal has been bought by Softimage.
Rainer

xsitar
02-07-2007, 06:16 PM
i don't understand the coffee-thing. can you elaborate LemonNado?

hobo
02-07-2007, 06:33 PM
I'd hazard a guess at the caffeine quantity in coffee, and it's ability to keep one awake.

LemonNado
02-07-2007, 06:36 PM
i don't understand the coffee-thing. can you elaborate LemonNado?

Softimage is located in Montreal. And they are working hard on the version, so they need all the coffee they can get to work all those hours ;).
Rainer

zukezuko
02-08-2007, 01:39 PM
http://myspace-066.vo.llnwd.net/00445/66/00/445590066_l.jpg
hmm
maybe they are too busy

DougNicola
02-08-2007, 08:34 PM
Just a note on Kris' link above. I don't think you need a support contract to log bugs or feature requests at that softimage link.

Just click login at upper right to create login/password to access the support page.

Or you can email support@softimage.com (http://forums.cgsociety.org/support@softimage.com)

I always see SI as being super responsive to bug reports and feature requests. But they have to know about them!

~Doug

Atyss
02-09-2007, 04:57 PM
I've been following the threads here on CGTalk and XSIBase, and although everyone is having major problems with 6, Softimage (to my knowledge) hasn't said a single word about any of it.

That's incorrect. It was said many times, by Halfdan and possibly other SI developers, on XSI Base and the XSI mailing list, that a new version with many bug fixes, was coming soon (no dates yet). In fact, consider yourself fortunate that developers themselves go on record with such statements, as it's usually the job of managers.


beside the fact I've never had the problem you have (but then I don't have 70% or more of the problems I see complaints about),

Hey Raf, for the better of the community, could I ask about the details of your configuration or how are your preferences setup? This is the kind of statement I've seen you doing several times over the years, and somehow I feel that you know something about system configuration that everyone should know. Perhaps that would help many people to know how you run XSI.


I can't believe you only spent 500$ for it ;)
how much is angst, how much is user error, and how much is it bad software tho?

mmm I don't want to start a war with you, and I understand the meaning of your comment. Still, I think there is a limit to how much you can put on user error (although there is a limit on what you can put on bad software as well, granted).

My point is that unless you get the software for free, I don't think price tag should be an excuse for delivering a product that is not of satisfying quality. The customer has the choice to buy or not. If he chooses to buy, I think he should get the same quality (for what's left after the limitations imposed by the package) as everyone else. With this in mind, I understand that those who buy the higher level packages should be prioritized, but those who don't should not be ignored either.


My two cents
Bernard

NRG-Alpha
02-09-2007, 08:05 PM
I haven't personally gotten my hands on version 6 yet. From my own experience, version 4.2, 5 and 5.11 have been stellar performers overall.

I am going to fathom a guess here and just pitch my own formulated opinion as to why software (whether it be XSi or otherwise) launches with some instability issues and numerous bugs. In the case of Softimage, we know that the company is not heavily staffed. They are a smaller company on the whole then some of the others. So it becomes immediatly obvious that time constraints in conjunction with balancing new / revamped features, bug repairs, etc.. have to be delicately juggled. XSI 6 took over a year to be released since its sister version 5. Obviously, at the end of the day, it is a business, and funding for develpoment cycles are not infinite. Sooner or later, the pressure does fall on Softimage (including all other companies for that matter) to release a new version with much improvements.

I have mentioned this in the past. I always wonder if it is Softimage who simply wants to remain smaller in staff (thus focused), or if Avid puts a tight budget cap on Softimage (thus restricting Softimage from expanding their staff size to better accomodate changes needed to XSI to better suit its user base).

It has been mentioned on the mailing list that there are more than one version of XSI being develeoped at a time (so one would reasonably think that version 7 is being done in parallel). So what I tend to wonder is, is it better to have all resources available to develop one version at a time, making sure that before it goes gold, have it more 'ironed out', or is it indeed better to have some staff members working on future features? Obviously, feature sets like a revamped particle system is nothing to sneeze at. It is understandable that some things will take immense amount of manpower and financial resources to get things done. Perhaps part of this equation is some staff members have stronger strengths at developing certain features that are not in the current version.Thus the seperate / fragmented version dev cycles.

Not sure if I am mindlessly rambling here. Overall, at the end of the day, from my personal experience, XSI has been pretty stable (4.2 and up). I will wait till there is a more stable version of 6 before I pursue this one. Either way, Im sure Softimage will ultimately deliver.

Just my 2 cents.

-NRG

halfdan
02-09-2007, 08:10 PM
Just a note on Kris' link above. I don't think you need a support contract to log bugs or feature requests at that softimage link.

Just click login at upper right to create login/password to access the support page.

Or you can email support@softimage.com

I always see SI as being super responsive to bug reports and feature requests. But they have to know about them!


This is true. You do not need a support contract to report bugs. That may suck to some but the upside is that everyone is entitled to service packs (and I believe point releases in general but don't quote me on that) and so if you do report bugs and we can reproduce it, and the bug sucks, it is more than likely that you'll see it fixed. Bear in mind that there's a bias towards well written and detailed bug reports, that list hardware specs, detailed repro steps etc. Issues that only contain something like "Halfy destroys things. He should be fired." are less likely to receive the attention that the reporter might be looking for.
So there's benefits to reporting issues that go beyond just merely hearing a soothing voice on the other end.


My point is that unless you get the software for free, I don't think price tag should be an excuse for delivering a product that is not of satisfying quality.


A personal observation of mine has been that the less people pay for software, the louder they complain about it. And when price goes down to zero... well... you do the math.

Atyss
02-09-2007, 11:41 PM
A personal observation of mine has been that the less people pay for software, the louder they complain about it. And when price goes down to zero... well... you do the math.

I definitely agree with that. Just that ethically/commercially/legally/whateverly speaking, paying customers are in their right to get satisfying quality. I'm not saying that low-end customers are entitled to support and upgrades. Just that if you sell to the low-end customers, then the low-end customers is entitled to a voice. It doesn't permit everything, but they can speak up nonetheless.

If, instead of getting the full snowboard-fixations-booths package, you just get the board from a store, and then the board breaks while you're riding, you'll probably be as unhappy as those who bought the full package, and you would be in your own right. No one will tell you "well mate, you just got the board instead of the full package (and what a deal it was, actually), so you'll have to deal with it". I mean, would you be happy? Not me!


Cheers!
Bernard

ThE_JacO
02-10-2007, 01:07 AM
Hey Raf, for the better of the community, could I ask about the details of your configuration or how are your preferences setup? This is the kind of statement I've seen you doing several times over the years, and somehow I feel that you know something about system configuration that everyone should know. Perhaps that would help many people to know how you run XSI.

AMD X2 4000+, 2GB of (good) ram, nvidia 6800 and the mobo is a gigabyte.
suse for linux and xp sp1 for windows, both fairly tweaked and clean, but nothing esoterical.
It might not be what I know about system configuration, but rather how clean I keep the OS -and- my scenes.

mmm I don't want to start a war with you, and I understand the meaning of your comment. Still, I think there is a limit to how much you can put on user error (although there is a limit on what you can put on bad software as well, granted).
my comment was mostly directed toward the aggresiveness of the statement with the "I can't believe" thing, which to be honest I tend to automatically associate with a shade of tantrum.
As for how much you can blame on user error, it depends from how far the definition of user error is stretched. My stretch might be longer then yours I guess, but it's beside the point, it was mostly a comment about the form, not the contents.

My point is that unless you get the software for free, I don't think price tag should be an excuse for delivering a product that is not of satisfying quality. The customer has the choice to buy or not. If he chooses to buy, I think he should get the same quality (for what's left after the limitations imposed by the package) as everyone else. With this in mind, I understand that those who buy the higher level packages should be prioritized, but those who don't should not be ignored either.
This I plain don't get the meaning of or how it's related to the rest, as at no point a distinction between fnd and ess/adv was made in any post insofar. I might be missing something.

T4D
02-10-2007, 01:51 AM
well for me,. I feel XSI 6 Ess win 64 has taken a BIG step backwards in stablity and Bug issues Alot of good stuff added,.. but nearly as much bad stuff some come in too :sad: ..

BUT I have alot of confidence in Avid to fixes them, So happy to enjoy the good stuff :)
I Don't really see a Need to jump all over the forums, I just Email Avid they do listen.
( unlike my old tool where the forums are the only place to go to Confirm bugs and to Get action on them ) I thank Avid for not being like that .

and from 4.0 to 4.2 to 5 to 5.1 to 5.11 and You do get the point updates with maintance contract or not ( I only pay maintance when a Full version is coming out :D )
and have never had trouble downloading point updates.

on one hand I hope we get a bug fix update soon
But on the other hand I know the longer it takes, the more Extra cool stuff we get ..:buttrock:

......BUT it's a hard thing to balance ?? ,...these new bugs are hurting... :sad:

luceric
02-10-2007, 01:52 AM
I can understand people having some problems with rendering or external models, but I have no explaination for toonafish's problem, they don't seem to be related to anything that's changed in XSI 6.0. Maybe your scene is just plain corrupted and you keep working with it. If XSI crash save a scene, you should avoid using it and go back to an earlier one, or perhaps re-save a new fresh copy. Sometimes also people have bad RAM chips and the problem only starts to occur - obviously! - when the user is begining to use more of his computer's RAM. If the RAM is bad, it's like having the carpet pulled from under you.

SovereignKnight
02-10-2007, 07:10 AM
I can't figure out how dragging a shader from a toolbar to the shader tree is user error. I've done it a thousand times with 4.2, but with 6.0 it crashed back to the desktop. User error? Please.

Oh, and yes I paid $500 for it. I bought the Foundation version because frankly, I don't need anything more for what I do. I don't see why just because I only paid $500 and you paid $1500 makes any difference in the matter of bugs. I paid for a product that should work as advertised. So, if crashing to the desktop by dragging a shader was an advertised feature, then I would expect it to work that was regardless of how much I paid. Maybe the $1500 version doesn't crash when you do that. Maybe crashing is only a feature of the $500 version. Somehow though, I don't think so.

I appriciate Softimage and the replies I've seen so far (except for the elitist snob ones). Thank you for a wonderful product. I know you're working hard to make it the best it can be. It's just frustrating when things don't work the way you need them to work, especially when they worked fine before.

luceric
02-10-2007, 02:50 PM
I am aware that a crash occurs with D&D of presets in the render tree. This wasn't caught by the beta. They'll be a free service pack for all users comming out in a few weeks (could be a couple months 'till release, feedback is still coming in and being parsed through)

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