Help-NURBS in MAX

[ssalo]

Hmm...Aren't Lightwave metaNURBS really implement of subdivision surfaces and not actual NURBS?

You don't want to convert your polygon model to NURBS in max, trust me. If you want to smooth it (in Lightwave manner), use Meshsmooth.

Sami

[Is-boset]

yes! Ssalo are rigth, when you use 3DMax try to keep your model in mesh, cause NURBS are complicated in 3DMax

[TimWoods]

stay away from NURBS in Max, they are awful and very unstable.
:buttrock:
Try using a program like Rhino for your nurbs needs.
Using more than one program to get the desired result is always the best way. It broadens your skills, alternatively, use lightwave. Max is great for mesh, and poly editing, not much else.

:thumbsup:

[googlo]

Tim, that last sentence is such BS! Why did you say that?

[Joel Hooks]

Max's NURBS are functional, albiet a bit clunky.

Why would you want to convert a box to NURBS? It took about .0005 seconds for max to convert a simple poly cube to NURBS here.

Lightwave doesn't even have true NURBS (Non-Uniform Rational B-Splines) - so the conversion isn't the same.

What exactly are you trying to convert to NURBS? Why? What application originally made it?

"Max is great for mesh, and poly editing, not much else."

Max is good for puttng the food on the table around here, and I certanly use it for more than just pushing verts around. ;)

[TimWoods]

MAX NURBS are very slow, and keeps crashing. much quicker to use another program. dont get me wrong, i would use max nurbs if my computer didnt crash everytime, its time discreet streamlined them a bit. i didnt mean max wasnt good for anything else but modelling. sorry, just modelling styles, in terms of mesh poly and patch and nurbs, nurbs looses. everything else rocks!

using rhino or solid works, a product design tool makes for faster work, much more accurate, and ohhh look at that, hasnt crashed yet. its not a crime to multiple programs, whatever gets the job done right?

;)

[lostanimator]

dude max NURBS r ideal for modelling non-organic models like cars and products..its not so powerful in modelling human faces.
besides its too slow and less interactive:bounce: ...so do rely on polys for all solutions...its the best in max..ooh!! and also!! u cant convert polys to NURBS..only primitive procedural geometries support NURBS convertion!! hehehe!!...akash

[ToddD]

Max nurbs aren't ideal for anything! Substandard neglected toolset, that crashes more often than not. I agree, for now you might want to consider implementing another app for nurbs.

[halo]

ditto

[Joel Hooks]

Originally posted by Tbonz816
Max nurbs aren't ideal for anything! Substandard neglected toolset, that crashes more often than not. I agree, for now you might want to consider implementing another app for nurbs.

When I say functional, I mean in so far as I can import IGES files from Rhino and use them effectively in my Max scenes.

I wouldn't consider actually using Max's NURBS for modeling.

[ToddD]

Hi Lowdown, in that respect I do agree! I was actually refering to the post by lostanimator, sounded like he thinks Max nurbs are good for something, I tend to disagree. As a car modeler, I find them useless----which is unfortunate.:beer:

[S_3D_A]

The nurbs that you see in max are very system intensive. I wouldn't recommend Nurbs unless you have a really good system.

-S 3D A

[JZee]

So what are Max Nurbs good for?:hmm:

[jadedchron]

humor? ;X

[Joel Hooks]

Originally posted by JZee
So what are Max Nurbs good for?:hmm:

Max's NURBS are there so that the software will support NURBS. It's not themain focus of the application, but it's nice to have them available when you need to bring in that sort of data. Personally I use it for roads. It's nice because of the way NURBS handle UVs and long stretches of curving road are really easy to map. I am sure there are many other valid reasons for them to be in the software.

[xynaria]

There are many reasons that could validate Max's nurbs, unfortunately they aren't there. Quelle surprise. :D
Hey but for them not to be touched for so long must mean they got it right originally.. er .. doesn't it. :p

[lostanimator]

Originally posted by Tbonz816
Hi Lowdown, in that respect I do agree! I was actually refering to the post by lostanimator, sounded like he thinks Max nurbs are good for something, I tend to disagree. As a car modeler, I find them useless----which is unfortunate.:beer:

dude actually saying NURBS are something noone prefers, be it max or maya...polys always rule..but for some serious work NURBS are prefered...with polys u can do anything... cars..bikes..humans..:rolleyes: but u'll enjoy MAX NURBS when u'll start using them... hmm...

[Is-boset]

Hey lostanimator, how could you enoy the NURBS?, i really try to love them but it's almost impossible, but when i need to build a courtain i use nurbs. :hmm:

[lostanimator]

Originally posted by Is-boset
Hey lostanimator, how could you enoy the NURBS?, i really try to love them but it's almost impossible, but when i need to build a courtain i use nurbs. :hmm:

dude NURBS is not a trip to HAWAII for a BEACH PARTY that one enjoy... its a seriuos modelling tool..for serious users...its really difficult to start with it, but as u get into it its fun to use...its more of Engineering where u can apply ideas for the construction!!
PLZ... dont mind me..!! hehehe

[lostanimator]

hey dudes!! I just got some thing in mind!!
that is... NURBS principle r based on these 3:
surfacing(lofting)...trimming..and blending..
did u know...same u can try on polygons to
COMPOUND OBJs. offer same function to POLYs..
like "boolean" for TRIMMING..
Merge shape for "Project curve normal on SURF...and TRIMMING
"Connect" for SURF BLENDING.....
SO!! before starting Actual NURBS!! try out the COMPOUND OBJs first...that'll help u all in getting to concepts!!
CHILL OUT!! hehehe...akash

[TimWoods]

at least im not the only one who thinks max nurbs are pants!
:beer:
rhino on the other hand uses nurbs beatifully, oh happy days! :thumbsup:

[ToddD]

No offense lostanimator, but it sounds like you are touting theories you have READ about rather than experiences you have. Compound objects, booleans? Please! Try meshsmoothing your models when done with either, not pretty. For technical modeling, cars(which I model on occasion) a good Nurbs modeling app will produce amazingly detailed results. I poly model, while I do achieve the desired result, it takes alot more effort than if I were able to project curves, or boolean, rail sweep etc, ala Rhino nurbs. Each have their assets, but to advocate the use of Nurbs in max is BS, it's like recommending someone learn to drive using a car missing 1 wheel. :shrug:

[TimWoods]

hehehehe lostanimator
building models using compound objects???? thats nuts, Max has problems with simple booleens. I hate to think about building a car using the good old cookie cutter technique. Max is almost as bad at booleans than it is at NUrbs! :thumbsup:

[lostanimator]

Originally posted by Tim Woods
hehehehe lostanimator
building models using compound objects???? thats nuts, Max has problems with simple booleens. I hate to think about building a car using the good old cookie cutter technique. Max is almost as bad at booleans than it is at NUrbs! :thumbsup:

Hey Tim Woods...i never said to model car with Compound objects..did u find anything like that i've written...i just showed the common working principle between Compound Objs and NURBS...its better to follow the way easiest for u..
the bottomline can be..u can model anything in the universe with Polys..like a clay...but its better to be fimiliar with all modelling techs.

[TimWoods]

soz. got the wrong idea.
there are clear advantages over using nurbs for modelling, but to say you can use polys to make anything is fairly obvious. Because in fact even nurbs are rendered as polys, they just use much much more, same as patches.
but to achieve surface blends without using nurbs would be very difficult. nurbs has clear advantages when it comes to complex objects, the ability to add fillets to edges at will is great.

there is always more that one way to skin a cat.


:wavey:

[Standard Poodle]

Uhhhh... What?

I think you guys must have a pretty old version of max, cuz nurbs are the easiest way to make stuff in 4.2. I mean, poly modeling is hard, but with nurbs it's so damn easy to make quick little things in like 5 or so minutes, like the attached pic. Nurbs seem great to me (only have used them in max too) because you can see really easily how to fix things, and you pretty much always get what you expect. You could probably make most things in either nurbs or regular modelling, Nurbs is just faster, with more ease of use. (Although some stuff is definitely easier in one over the other- it depends on the project.) Nurbs are a whole lot easier to learn if you have no background in modelling. I should know, cuz I'm a noob learning both.

[ToddD]

Uh Standard Poodle, I'm glad you feel you are having some success with max Nurbs, good for you! Just a note though, when you have modeled a complex project, or something with high amounts of detail, or a technical model(car, ship) your opinion may change. No disrespect to your neck and devil head, but there doesn't seem to be alot of detail, and it isn't a very complex object. I know for me at least(I'm a max 5 user), they weren't the best, part of the issue may be the crashing of my underpowered system, but beyond that, they just don't have the user friendly feel of the other software I have encountered. Anyway good luck, and have fun! :)

[lostanimator]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Standard Poodle
[B]Uhhhh... What?

hey Poodle..u said with nurbs u can model anything in 5-10 mins...hey just try out a human head..it'll take infinite time to do that..not only for u..for everyone..on the other hand nurbs r best for small less detail obs. due to complications in nurbs..subdivs. were introduced(in maya) which is the most extencively used too now..for max there is polys. with meshsmooth mod.

[Standard Poodle]

yeah, human heads are a lot harder (I'm working up to things like that)... the 5 minutes thing was for things like what I attached, simplistic things. Things a noob still be proud of. :) Yes I know it is harder with complex things, but I still think a lot of people who posted underestimate what can be done with Max Nurbs. There are also many ways you can optimize nurbs curves and surfaces for lower end machines. I just think they serve more purpose than allowing max to support them. Then again, perhaps I only hold this perspective because I've used only max nurbs. Are there any free or cheap programs that allow you to do more and better stuff with nurbs? Btw, this is a nice forum. I state my opinion and don't get flamed. Much of an improvement over the dodmod forums...

[gaggle]

Well after the.. ah.. incident with Bob, we're no longer allowed to flame.

Poor old Bob.

:rolleyes:

Regarding MAX NURBS, it's cool you can use it for something, most people just doesn't bother touching them. There are specific things it lacks though, I'm told, though I can't remember the details right now. Other programs might feature a certain way to blend two edges to join eachother, or a way to bevel an edge smoothly, and MAX's current NURBS toolset simply doesn't have those features.
When you buy, say, Maya, you actually get more NURBS techniques available with the Maya Unlimited package, than you do with one of the cheaper ones.. I think that says something about the kind of research and cost that apparently goes into developing these techniques..

[Joel Hooks]

Standard > I am serious when I say Max's NURBS are there just so that the program can offer support of NURBS surfaces. The development time has gone almost completly to the poly side in terms of modeling in 3ds Max. While the software needs to support NURBS - there are other packages that focus on that method and do it better than Max could ever dream of. I'd use surface tools style patches in max to give it a "NURBSesque" approach.

I think you should explore the entire program, even the NURBS, but you should be aware of their limits, otherwise you will probably end up frustrated. Like you say, it's good for a sock puppet, but when you want to start adding the detail you will run into some serious issues, not to mention if you try to do any deformation and/or animation.

I don't believe that there are any free NURBS modelers out there. Rhino is the best accessible program for NURBS and Alias StudioTools is an incredible package that is also priced accordingly. Those two, and Max, are what I've used extensively for modeling in NURBS.

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