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Beroc-LOD
02-25-2003, 07:26 AM
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbody1.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbody2.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbody3.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbody4.jpg


OK, I guess, I am gonna get into some slower stuff for the time being, as work is kinda killin me, so tell ya what I am gonna do... These are two Concept cars, which I would love some feedback on as I go through the process of creating them. They are GM's F-Body remakes, as they of course didnt make further productions of them. We will call them a 2006 Camaro, and a 2006 Firebird.... Tell me what you guys think...

These concepts are kinda for portfolios, as I will make some 20 or 30 cars for it, but only choose like the best 5 or 10 or so... I will try to keep you guys as posted on this as possible.

Krystman
02-25-2003, 10:37 AM
Are all those details at the wheels necessary? I don't think the player would notice the difference between that and an alpha map, you could use the extra polys to define the shape a bit more. Also, you could then exchange the Wheel texture with a motion blurred one once the wheels begin turining. Polywheels will just flicker. But I guess the car is not for a game anyway, huh?

Also, I have the Impression that the stripes at the doors of the second car can be better solved with a texture, too...

Very cools cars, anyway, how about some Texture? :bounce:

AgentX
02-25-2003, 11:06 AM
Yeah Krystman is right. If this is for a game, then you do not want to model the details you did. You won't even see it when playing, and it will just slow down the game. However, your cars look great, cool design. Just get rid of alot of those little details. Also, how many polys are they right now? And yes, lets see some cool textures! :)

Beroc-LOD
02-25-2003, 06:59 PM
Thanks for the crits, the cars will be setup for a game called Carmageddon TDR. However, TDR doesnt use texture replacement on turning as suggested, and does a pitiful job of alphas, giving Zbuffer Erroring when you are in the game. I am at work right now, so cant give you exact numbers, though I think each wheel was about 450 polys. The cars, in the end will be around 4500 polys maybe 5000 with the wheels, and will not slow down TDR's graphics engine at all. As a matter of fact, the engine has run 10k cars before, without a hitch, so polycount is kinda at a minimum. I know these bodys are less then 1100 each right now.

More specifically to the crits, the wheels were done high poly to show detail, yeah, they could have been done with alot less polys, I could have gotten them into about 200 or less, with alpha maps and some other tricks, but the game I am making them for doesnt do that well with that. As for defining the body more, what are you talking about, does something look off, or out of place, should something change? After all, I am asking for crits on alot of things.

As far as the lines, yeah, I could do it to save polys, and may, if it becomes unstable in the end, but for the moment, I am gonna leave em.

Still alot of work has to go into the model. TDR is a game where parts can fall off of the car, so all that has to be modeled before I texture any of it, though alot of stock textures will go into the interior. It should be very pretty when complete.

Thanks guys.

Edit-Oh, as far as the poly counts go on the outside and refining, smoothing will take care of alot of it, so I try to build bodies that will smooth correctly, not nessicarily have alot of polys to define curves. That saves alot more polys then you may think....

LoneLobo
02-25-2003, 07:17 PM
hi beroc :beer:

Great car, there's only thing that could perhaps be worth a small critique: It reminds me very strong of the red eagle in carmageddon 2

but don't kill all these polies in the wheels, in my opinion it looks crappy when theres a great car with wheels which rims are just an alpha-map...
It just doesn't go together and the TDR engine is -like you said- strong enough for that :)

would like to see a shot with the interior finished
:beer:

Beroc-LOD
02-26-2003, 07:32 AM
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbody5.jpg

OK, here are some polycounts as the Camaro Side of it looks...

Each wheel is 450, for a grand total of 1800 around, very expensive, I know... he he...

The body, with windows is 798, add in maybe 100 for the underside, and it would make a perfect Need for Speed car... :D

OK, I added the interior basics, minus seats and steering wheel and any other addon components I have left, when I am finished(kinda a goback and add details if I am well under my poly limit, which aint lookin too good with almost half of my poly limit being eaten up by wheels, but we will see...)

Total polycount with wheels: 3252
Poly Budget: 5000

I may make it yet... ;)

Things to add:
Engine
Drive trane
Chassis extras
Seats
Steering wheel
Driver (Probably a stock driver which is 614 polys, but could redo another one if it gets bad)

Changes:
change the rear deck, as it isnt quite fitting with what I want it to at the moment, the more I think about it, the more it irks me... LOL

Beroc-LOD
02-27-2003, 04:37 AM
More WIP pics for you guys, what is red, has recently been done.

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbody6.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbody7.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbody8.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbody9.jpg


OK, out of my 5000 poly budget, I have used 4144(4758 with driver), and all it lacks are some decal details. Nothing major though, these are the ones that will turn the normal looking model into the super model, so I need to be pretty specific of how I want to do these...

Upcoming:

Details, Details, Details...

Oh, and dont forget more details...

And dont forget the damned License plate (ooooohhhh, 4 polys.... LOL)

Oh, heh, The Firebird body is currently 1203 with windows, so I have alot fewer options as far as details are concerned, in order to reach 5k with those wheels, course, I could just make another set of wheels, that would just solve everything, wouldnt it... LOL


Crits anyone???

CADster
02-27-2003, 04:43 PM
looking good :thumbsup: i dont like the front dam, but thats only a style issue -unless your making it to be blades or something :) .

If you get too close to your limit you can save quite a few by doing that wheel trick (like on blood, dart, etc.)

even of you already knew this i thought i'd remind you :wavey:

xasteycracker
02-27-2003, 06:05 PM
Since you have a lot of polys to waste you might think of makeing some of the corners more rounder. But the model still looks great without this. BTW you should make this car in to a high poly version because the concept looks great. Also the car look good for only having less then 4000 polys.Keep up the good work:applause: :thumbsup:

Beroc-LOD
02-28-2003, 07:46 AM
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodya.jpg

Xasteycracker-Thanks, when I built the original model, save the rear deck, which I had some problems with, I used just about all the polys I would need to keep the shape... I am pretty careful nowdays to keep from over indulging in poly heavy bodies, as I have made some pretty unstable crap... heh.. hasnt everyone made crap at one point in time in thier lives. I kinda wanted to point out, once the final model is done where, if you use the smoothing of the game correctly, you can "get by" with far fewer polys then expected.... So I kinda feel that the curves of the car are quite adequate, but not over indulgent.... and thanks for the remarks...

CADster-Yeah, I know I could redo the wheels using a few more polycutting methods, but the car will be about 200 or so polys less then anticipated, so I am happy with them. I will probably create a second set of wheels for the Firebird though, and maybe another set for this one, shouldnt be any more polys though if I do. As far as the dam, I shortened it. It looked like a big gaping hole, but I didnt want to kill it... Hope this is more of what you are talking about. Thanks

I know this isnt the greatest picture ever placed on the forum, but I didnt have alot of time to do it, so if you will bear with me....

All the geometry is done, and now the car is mapped, ready and rearin for a cool skin.... You can see that I build part of the texture before mapping, as I can use some repeating textures and gain the most out of certain ones.... The entire interior is done with a 64x64 map, in chunks, so it will look pretty decent. kinda a change from the way I did it before, and I am pretty happy with the results. I have stock engine textures and stuff like that, so alot of that is complete also, notice the white seats and purple exhuast tip.... heh... the exaust itself is a 64x64 texture, so it is pretty much repeating as well...

OK, here is a breakdown of what my maps will, (and generally) look like....

1-512x512 body texture map
4 256x256 texture maps for the wheels, driver, glass and damaged glass respectivly.

I use some pretty simple methods to build most of the tedious stuff on the texture maps, and I am sure people will scream, but, of course, that is why I am doing this, so maybe someone can tell me if I am doing something wrong, or right, for a change... LOL

xasteycracker
02-28-2003, 02:14 PM
Yeah i agree with what you said about the smoothing thing. Yeah it does make the model look great.

Beroc-LOD
02-28-2003, 03:39 PM
one of the poly saving tricks I learned was that when you create a curve, like the wheel well, that the verts around it, dont nessecarily have to mock the verts on the wheel well itself... as a matter of fact, I tend to use near half the amount of verts outside the wheel well... like this...

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/lowpol.gif

notice on the top one, how nice and smooth it is.... well it has 56 polygons, the bottom one is a bit more jagged, but you can see a definite poly savings at it's 35 polygons.... now that is a 60 percent savings right there, so you can imagine that a 1500 poly car that doesnt take note of any polysavings can be around 950 or so, that is incredibly valuable when doing game models... Course, it is also alot more work to produce that stuff.

Also, the other thing that this car takes advantage of is low, low poly situations on things you may never see, save the gear shift of course, I could have done alot fewer there.
In theory, things that cannot be seen readily, dont need as many polys, such as the wheels, everyone is sayin how highpoly they are, which I am not arguing with, but he back is flat, giveing some poly savings right there...

Oh well, enough of my rambling, I have to go to work.....
Thanks for listenging, and the comments, Xasteycracker

CADster
02-28-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Beroc-LOD
notice on the top one, how nice and smooth it is.... well it has 56 polygons, the bottom one is a bit more jagged, but you can see a definite poly savings at it's 35 polygons.... now that is a 60 percent savings right there, so you can imagine that a 1500 poly car that doesnt take note of any polysavings can be around 950 or so, that is incredibly valuable when doing game models... Course, it is also alot more work to produce that stuff.


when you think about it, the faces that are not readly seen (like interior pieces) are culled out anyway. i always wondered about this. If your game has a 1000 poly cap for a unit and the one you made is actually 1200 faces, why is this a problem ? this unit in game is never at 1200 faces because of culling. ive had to model plenty of stuff with a cap, but i always wondered why the cap was so important in the first place ?

Ian Christie
02-28-2003, 10:18 PM
Just a thought on the poly limits. Doesn't something still have to calculate the polygons that aren't visible (in order to cull them) Meaning, the cpu or video card still has to deal with those polygons.

I could be way off there, but I'm pretty sure something has to deal with eliminateing the un-seen polygons.

Beroc-LOD
03-01-2003, 02:29 AM
I think you are right Ian, though the poly is culled, that just means that the render engine doenst have to draw it, some section of memory, still has to calculate weather it is visible first. I am sure it isnt near as rough as drawing it though.

Beroc-LOD
03-03-2003, 02:12 AM
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodyb.jpg

Sorry for the lack of updates, I got to workin on a script that took me a while.... But, I did have some time to finish the skin for the interor... of course not visible in this friggin shot.... You know, I should think ahead... but it's party time for me.... So, add in your crits and comments....

Laters...

Beroc-LOD
03-03-2003, 09:04 AM
OK, more updates... :D

Got some pics of the actual interor, which of course is not totally complete, the Carpet will either change or be lightened, it looks very dark....Maybe I will set it to the interior color... ooo what a suprise... LOL

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodyc.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodyd.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodye.jpg


The next update I will give a pic of the map its self....

Crits, comments, opinions...

Beroc-LOD
03-04-2003, 08:47 AM
A couple more pics for you guys....

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodyf.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodyg.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodyh.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodyi.jpg


The last one with wheels from SupermotoXL (http://www.geocities.com/SupermotoXL/)

Enjoy!

Krystman
03-04-2003, 09:40 AM
Aaarrgh! That green hurts the eyes! How abot something less saturated? A bit more variation would be cool too (stickers etc.).. Also, the body texture looks very grainy, like some kind of a cheap glitter effect or something. :curious:

The interior is pretty cool, works well with those new wheels. To bad they are not yours :)

Beroc-LOD
03-09-2003, 09:54 AM
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fbodyj.jpg

OK, I suppose I am getting warmer... Still a long way to go... this time, a racing scheme... Course I am sure the sticklers would have a field day with this one... LOL Either way... I think she is turnin out pretty good thus far... I am still trying to break up some of the more dull areas and get the whole thing done.

one of the next things I need to do is the glass textures, as they are on another map (256x256) and contain tail lights, and some other stuff.

Any further Comments and Crits, please.

Beroc-LOD
03-12-2003, 08:41 AM
OK, I think I did most every crit, probably not every one, but try as I may, it may never get done if I listen to everyone.... so here are some pics of the final car... Thanks guys for all your crits and help....

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/camconceptfin1.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/camconceptfin2.jpg


And, the final skin... :D

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/CamaroConceptSkin.jpg

Beroc-LOD
03-13-2003, 05:43 PM
OK, with the Camaro done I can now concentrate more on the Firebird. I know what all of you are gonna say "What a lazy bastard", but the whole point of the initial cars setup was to use the same stuff on both cars... Lazy... yes, faster... alot

So... here are some WIPs of the new firebird at a total of 4319 polygons.

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fire1.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fire2.jpg

Beroc-LOD
03-14-2003, 06:41 AM
Well a couple of hours more work into it, and I get a semi-finished representation of my final body.... One of the things I am very happy with is the ability to do reflections on the skin... very nessecary for some games, which do not provide an adequate reflection.

Here, I remapped about a quarter of what I pulled from the Camaro, and redid some of the skin to match new parts that I had to make cos the two cars didnt match exactly.... (I know, I know, GM would have done a much better job... LOL)

http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fire3.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fire4.jpg

mindrot
03-14-2003, 07:42 AM
this is DAMN cool love the detail on the undercarriage.....

sweet.....

The texture stretching seems a bit problimatic....

dame cool tho' :buttrock:

mockmoon
03-14-2003, 11:17 AM
Incredible design, i like it a lot.

Beroc-LOD
03-31-2003, 06:44 PM
http://www.lod3d.net/thumb/fire6.jpghttp://www.lod3d.net/thumb/fire7.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fire8.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/fire9.jpg

OK, finally got some time to work on this stuff, hopefully get it all finished soon, and out of the way... The only thing better then makin the model is getting finished with a long project... What a feeling... LOL

So hopefully, without too many bad crits, I will have some finished game shots for you guys at some point.... ;)

AgentX
03-31-2003, 07:45 PM
Well done! I love them. You definitely made some kickass cars! Good Job.

Beroc-LOD
04-04-2003, 11:10 PM
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/CamaroConcept2k6big.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/CamConcept2k6dambig.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/FbirdConcept2k6big.jpg
http://www.lod3d.net/pic/FirebirdConcept2k6big.jpg


FINALLY.... Finished.....

This project has taken nearly 2 months, and in the time, I usually have like 6 done easily in that time frame.... Not that I was taking my sweet time to do it mind you, just the amount of other things I had to do in my life. Not an excuse, I know. Tell me what you guys think, and if you happen to have Carmageddon TDR (or you wanna buy it from the store for like $15, you can play it, and about a hundred other cars I built over the last 2 years.

See you guys in Ped land....

CADster
04-05-2003, 03:33 AM
what use to take you 3 days now takes you almost 2 months.. LOL.
(wait a minute, why am i laughing. what use to take me 2 months now seem to take....umm, its hard to tell ... forever ? ) :)


great job bro !!!!

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