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View Full Version : The Setup Machine for Lightwave Released


RobPowers
02-25-2003, 06:29 AM
The new rigging plugin from Anzovin looks like it is available now:

http://www.anzovin.com/setupmachine/setupmachinelw.html

I downloaded the tutorial movies and read the docs. It's nice that we are starting to have so many choices for Character Rigging setup in Lightwave! I already own and love ACS4 but, It is nice to have so many options.

Rob Powers

mage111
02-25-2003, 06:32 AM
that is quite interesting.

if i had the money i would think about it.

but i think skipping over the knowhow and straight to a program to doit for you is in my view the wrong way to go about things.

i'd rather want to know, understand and beable to build my own. but thats just me

i have to admit though its quite kool, and i wouldnt mind seeing what its like :-).

thanks for the link

RobPowers
02-25-2003, 06:49 AM
Mage111,
Good point about learning how to rig but, I think a lot can be learned from studying the way other people rig. Just getting a feel for the expressions that are used and the necessary hold bones, etc... I have been doing it for a pretty long while and I often find things in the way other people rig that I like and then I encorporate that into my style. I have really enjoyed working with ACS4 since I purchased it and feel it was worth it for me just for the few new ways of doing things that I picked up. It can often accelerate the learning curve. Also, many people just want to animate and don't really have an interest in rigging. It is a nice option to have anyway.

Rob Powers

RobPowers
02-25-2003, 07:21 AM
Oh no!
I missed the incredibly long thread for "TSM"! Sorry about that guys. The "TSM" abbreviation threw me off the path! Also could be brain damage from the long day at work. Cut me some slack it's delivery week!

Rob.

mage111
02-25-2003, 07:26 AM
good points aswell Mr.Powers.

and for those people i would basically say "here take it use it, you'll get s*** done hella faster" because as you said they arent looking to be modeling gods, just animtor gods :-).

i still stick tru to my thoughts even though i havent experiance really either. im still working on vehicles and terrain so the character end will prolly come last as i see it to be more complex...

but then again, trying to do an entire car inside out would be just as hard im sure ;-).

your post has made me look @ things another way mind you, so thanks for that :-)

SplineGod
02-25-2003, 08:16 AM
As cool as some of these rigging plugins are they have to work around the fact that unless you really know layout you have to resort to doing this in modeler. As much as I like skelegons it would be better to simply do all that in layout. Imagine being able to simply draw bones in layout and at any time adjust the joints as nodes. I would love to delete, split, merge or connect bones at will with no weirdness. I would like to be able to interactively set pitch planes between bones in an easy interactive way. I would like to be able to pick a bone, set it pitch and make its decendents auto align their pitch to that bones pitch. I would like to be able to clone heirarchies of bones and easily mirror them. With such power I could easily load in one of my rigs, swap characters and quickly reset the joint nodes and all in layout!
I can see such good days ahead for us...oh yes.... :applause:

RobPowers
02-25-2003, 10:03 AM
Larry,

We've talked about this before - I totally agree! Good suggestions! If there were a combined Layout and Modeler you would almost have that functionality now. It would allow bones and skelegons to merge into superbones with no clunky back and forth.

Rob Powers

SplineGod
02-25-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by RobPowers
Larry,

We've talked about this before - I totally agree! Good suggestions! If there were a combined Layout and Modeler you would almost have that functionality now. It would allow bones and skelegons to merge into superbones with no clunky back and forth.

Rob Powers
Who said anything about these being suggestions? :D

Sil3
02-25-2003, 11:38 AM
It seems that Larry knows a LOT more than we poor mortals do :p

Sil3

SplineGod
02-25-2003, 11:43 AM
I almost feel like a giddy schoolgirl! :bounce:

Sil3
02-25-2003, 11:49 AM
LOL, i really bet u do :beer:

Sil3

VirtualFM
02-25-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Imagine being able to simply draw bones in layout and at any time adjust the joints as nodes.

(lots of cool stuff)

I can see such good days ahead for us...oh yes.... :applause:

Hum, you are either describing messiah's functionality or your subconcious is telling us that next LW version would have save me more than 2/3 of work in my last more-than-one-month rigging work!

uncommongrafx
02-25-2003, 02:10 PM
Chuck's gonna come in here and spank Splinegod.
:eek:

Love those streams of consciousness...
Robert Wilson
UnCommon Grafx

VirtualFM
02-25-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by uncommongrafx
Chuck's gonna come in here and spank Splinegod.
:eek:


Yeah... spank him hard... make him spill the beans... ;)

Huh?! ... Oh! You meant the opposite... :eek: I see... :shrug:

:thumbsup:

JohnD
02-25-2003, 03:22 PM
Whoo hoo. I've been waiting for this to be released. I don't have any problems with rigging, its just the time that it takes that gets under my skin sometime. Think I'll check out TSM.

RobPowers
02-25-2003, 07:09 PM
Larry,

I used the word "Suggestions" to give you a graceful way out! :p But, Seriously it is a very good time for Lightwave users with even better stuff coming!

Rob Powers

dzogchen
02-25-2003, 09:10 PM
Is there a demo for TSM for lightwave? Could not find it on the site. Did I miss it?

SplineGod
02-25-2003, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by RobPowers
Larry,

I used the word "Suggestions" to give you a graceful way out! :p But, Seriously it is a very good time for Lightwave users with even better stuff coming!

Rob Powers
Thats an understatement....even better stuff coming... :applause:

Thalaxis
02-25-2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Thats an understatement....even better stuff coming... :applause:

Great, now the LW "insiders" are taking teasing lessons from the Maxon "insiders"... it's all just to keep us distracted from the rivals ;)

:wip: :wip: :wip: :wip:

SplineGod
02-25-2003, 10:50 PM
I know what you mean. Dont you hate when people do that?
Speaking of which, I found something VERY strange on my monitor today... :)

fez
02-25-2003, 11:02 PM
"bone setup mode"

I'm gonna need some keyboard cleaner.

uncommongrafx
02-25-2003, 11:19 PM
You are in such trouble, Larry!

I'm gonna tell!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:bounce:

Thanks for keeping spirits high.

Robert Wilson
UnCommon Grafx

yog
02-25-2003, 11:22 PM
My jaw now hurts from the force of it hitting the keyboard :eek:

Oohh mama :bounce:

policarpo
02-25-2003, 11:29 PM
you did that in Photoshop to tease us. are you some place freezing cold, because you're exhibiting the tell tale signs of cabin fever. :applause:

keep em coming! :beer:

SplineGod
02-25-2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by policarpo
you did that in Photoshop to tease us. are you some place freezing cold, because you're exhibiting the tell tale signs of cabin fever. :applause:

keep em coming! :beer:
LOL! Good theory except that I dont own photoshop. :)

policarpo
02-25-2003, 11:36 PM
:beer:

ok...then you did it in Paint Shop Pro.

i dare you to post another image. :eek:

SplineGod
02-25-2003, 11:46 PM
Well now...I DO own Paint Shop Pro...
However, sad to say, I could never draw such a thing.
You dare me....Ill have to think about that one... :)

Thalaxis
02-25-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
LOL! Good theory except that I dont own photoshop. :)

Well, you probably have Aura then, which isn't all THAT different...

See? Teasing, teasing, and more teasing... what are we supposed to do?

I'm just glad that I keep finding cool new stuff in LightWave even without an update (I just discovered that one of my minor niggles actually resulted from not knowing about a button that's already there :applause: )

SplineGod
02-26-2003, 12:05 AM
Aura is cool...verycool yes. I just recently aquired it but havent progressed far enough with it to produce this:

policarpo
02-26-2003, 12:09 AM
:eek:
:eek:
:eek:
:eek:

Joint Mover? I hope thise means its fast and furious for the setup process...can you say 1 universal rig for all your characters which you then tweak and adjust to accomodate differing heights and shapes.

:thumbsup:

SplineGod
02-26-2003, 12:12 AM
OH yes...and so much more... :twisted:

policarpo
02-26-2003, 12:21 AM
1 click IK Solvers?

please?

i dare you to show something else:love:

Psyhke
02-26-2003, 12:27 AM
...if that doesn't work, then DOUBLE DOG DARE him...that usually works.:buttrock:

SplineGod
02-26-2003, 12:34 AM
Oh such things could I show!:drool:

policarpo
02-26-2003, 12:36 AM
come on and fess up or the monkey get's it!

http://www.homestead.com/zizweb/files/monkey.gif:beer:

SplineGod
02-26-2003, 12:39 AM
Ok OK! Just dont spank him!
What to show....what to show....hmmm :insane:

Nonproductive
02-26-2003, 01:23 AM
/me sits glued to CGTalk waiting on SplineGod's every post :bounce:

Psyhke
02-26-2003, 04:52 AM
Alright, policarpo, time to rough up the monkey a little. Just to show you mean business.

faulknermano
02-26-2003, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Aura is cool...verycool yes. I just recently aquired it but havent progressed far enough with it to produce this:

splinegod must have had produced a his dream plug. :rolleyes:

Julez4001
02-26-2003, 05:38 AM
Once again, one step closer to messiah. Is it fast?

SplineGod
02-26-2003, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Julez4001
Once again, one step closer to messiah. Is it fast?
Its pretty much instant.
In the spirit of keeping the monkey safe...heres another tidbit :)
PS. This will split a bone into any number of bones...in a linear patch or interpolate them in a curve. :)

wgreenlee1
02-26-2003, 09:31 AM
What?
No replies to this one?

Everyone must be quietly thinking......

Psyhke
02-26-2003, 09:50 AM
..and humbly praying, each to their god, giving thanks that the time draws nigh that strange and wonderful things shall come to pass...

Or something like that.

SplineGod
02-26-2003, 12:25 PM
While you are all quietly chanting mantras of bones...
take a look at this...

yog
02-26-2003, 01:42 PM
Aauugghhhh !!!!!!
I go to sleep for a few hours and Larry keeps posting teasers.
Heck if this keeps up I'll have to learn how to meditate or risk brain overload, through lack of patience :eek:

Don't suppose you could slip us any info on any possible improvements to the radiosity renderer ? If I'm brutally honest I would have to say that LW's renderer if falling badly behind other programs, especially when it comes to speed.

ClingFree
02-26-2003, 01:58 PM
Very cool Larry, thanks for sharing the screen pics. A true setup mode like Messiah would be very nice too.:bounce:

LNT
02-26-2003, 02:00 PM
let's summ this up now Larry...

joint mover,bone breaker & bone fuser :beer:

that's pretty much all one would need to readjust bones

anything else?
like global bone ON/OFF toggle?

RuiFeliciano
02-26-2003, 02:02 PM
Larry,

while you're posting those teasers (damn you! ):) would you mind letting us know if this is part of a LW upgrade or a new plugin (my personal bet)?
Wow...so many new buttons as if LW didn't have enough buttons already :-)

policarpo
02-26-2003, 03:41 PM
cool.

:beer:

Facial Deluxe
02-26-2003, 08:55 PM
Yeah :bounce:
Let's deal ! Where, When & How much ?:drool:

E_Moelzer
02-26-2003, 10:06 PM
Hey Larry!
It is unfair to hide teasers like these in a thread about TSM. I wouod have never found it if Andras had not kindly pointed my nose to here ;-)
Very cool stuff, cant wait to see more.
This is going to be a killer! All my thumbs (and big toes in lack of more than two thumbs) up to that plugin- team!
CU
Elmar

Thalaxis
02-26-2003, 10:17 PM
Not only is Larry a tease, but he's a CLEVER tease! :wip:

Causing no end of trouble, that one...

(I'm hoping for more teasers, myself... it's not like I need to be convinced about LW or something, but that's not the point. :beer: )

SplineGod
02-26-2003, 10:19 PM
Sorry Elmar!
Couldnt help myself... :twisted:

Meshbuilder
02-26-2003, 10:59 PM
Please Larry, show us more :bounce:

Julez4001
02-26-2003, 11:01 PM
Are u programming this or beta test. Is a plugin or part of lw upgrade?

SplineGod
02-26-2003, 11:09 PM
Im not programming it nope. Thats a GOOD thing believe me.
Am I betatesting something? Yes and something I also have
direct input on and VERY excited about. :D
Is it a plugin or something part of LW8? Cant say...
Is it awsome? Yes! :drool:

Thalaxis
02-26-2003, 11:11 PM
I knew you wouldn't be able to resist teasing us some more!

Maybe this will help: :beer:

:D

SplineGod
02-26-2003, 11:13 PM
The Thread compels me!

yog
02-26-2003, 11:14 PM
Come on lads, I'll bring the lead pipes if someone can bring the ropes to tie Larry down :twisted:

We wont stop till he's spilled all the beans :wip: :thumbsup:

Thalaxis
02-26-2003, 11:29 PM
An adequate supply of beer might do the trick... besides, if you use lead pipes, you get a sort of one-time success. Beer-based bribery will work again next time :bounce:

:beer:

yog
02-26-2003, 11:43 PM
Tricky, Larry looks as though he could put away a few pints, looks as though it could cost considerably more than any upgrade price if there were one.
And if we started on the beer the pipes wouldn't work then because he would be aneithiatised :shrug:

How about beating him with wet cod (a.la. Monty Pythons "Cod Wars" :D

Thalaxis
02-26-2003, 11:54 PM
If we split up the cost of the beer among the entire LightWave users community, we should be ok :)

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 01:19 AM
You guys are REAL lucky that I dont drink. :)

VirtualFM
02-27-2003, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Am I betatesting something? Yes and something I also have
direct input on and VERY excited about. :D


Well, If you are giving input, please tell the developers to have the nerve of copying messiahs system of changing skeletons, or like Modeler's way of editing skelegons as well, wich is about the same. That being done, everything else is a plus! :)

Julez4001
02-27-2003, 02:52 AM
Hey if you have any input, tell them to just swipe the entire bone setup system from messiah (copying bones and all) and tell them to match or exceed messiah's "deformation to Ik "ratio. Thats wworth the complete upgrade right there.

faulknermano
02-27-2003, 04:07 AM
larry, is it what i think it is? or is not what i think it is?:eek:

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by faulknermano
larry, is it what i think it is? or is not what i think it is?:eek:
It certainly very well might possbily be what youre thinking....so Lernie...what are you thinking? :)

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 05:12 AM
Originally posted by Julez4001
Hey if you have any input, tell them to just swipe the entire bone setup system from messiah (copying bones and all) and tell them to match or exceed messiah's "deformation to Ik "ratio. Thats wworth the complete upgrade right there.

Waaaay ahead of you guys on this. :)

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 05:29 AM
Is life good or what? :)

mix
02-27-2003, 05:55 AM
OK, show us how you'd set up an IK chain, with rotation limits in two seconds.
hmmm;)

CTRL+X
02-27-2003, 06:11 AM
Is it just me, or does anybody else feel real naughty? like we are seeing something we shouldn't be seeing yet this early?:shame:

Kinda like your first look at a dirty mag when you a kid:eek:

I know I feel kinda giddy:love:



Keep Wavin:wavey:

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by CTRL+X
Is it just me, or does anybody else feel real naughty? like we are seeing something we shouldn't be seeing yet this early?:shame:

Kinda like your first look at a dirty mag when you a kid:eek:

I know I feel kinda giddy:love:



Keep Wavin:wavey:
I hope I didnt post the wrong picture... :)

CTRL+X
02-27-2003, 06:20 AM
No, Iam just easily excited:drool:



Oh and thanks Spline for showing the community a teaseer that will quell some of the rant about delays in release of updates, this thread shows the desire on NT's part to hve the best product on the market.

UserDelta
02-27-2003, 07:49 AM
niceeeeeee. looks like someone is taking a testrun before the release. hehe damn this will be good indeed.

wgreenlee1
02-27-2003, 07:53 AM
:hmm:


This is freaakin me out!

Meshbuilder
02-27-2003, 08:07 AM
If this is Lightwave 8 they have to release it now!!!! Shooow us moooore, pleeease!!!! :drool:

Maybe this is what the mysterious Luxology company have been doing???

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 08:14 AM
Ick! This has nothing to do with Luxology

Meshbuilder
02-27-2003, 08:16 AM
Good :)

Do you know if "it" will work on OSX?

feefunk
02-27-2003, 10:14 AM
Now if only all these goodies came with a nice implementation of Animatable Constraints (a la XSI) then Lightwave will finally be a great option for Character animation!


:bounce:

Oh yes, I forgot... it still NEEDS a Dopesheet!:thumbsdow

More teasers, more teasers Larry!

VirtualFM
02-27-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Waaaay ahead of you guys on this. :)

I'm glad to hear that! :thumbsup:

Well, all those functions are great, but how about interactivity? I mean, I still see the dreadfull 'Rest Lenght' button! Of course a way to input precise rest lenght is needed, so that button probably cannot go away, but I hope that an 'Edit mode' is implemented, so that we can just edit skeleton joints, adjusting position, pitch rotation and rest lenght all at once, I think that's what the 'Joint Mover' is for, as long as it doesn't work just 'joint by joint' it's all good!

Just wink once to say 'yes'!

Tudor
02-27-2003, 12:58 PM
Come on!!!
Been sitting here all day updating this thread to see some new posts from you Larry!

isnowboard
02-27-2003, 01:04 PM
This thread has officially been hijacked...

faulknermano
02-27-2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
It certainly very well might possbily be what youre thinking....so Lernie...what are you thinking? :)

nah.. possibly not. this looks more like a rigging thing.. and it's not what i had in mind. or does it go beyond rigging? hmmm:hmm:

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by faulknermano
nah.. possibly not. this looks more like a rigging thing.. and it's not what i had in mind. or does it go beyond rigging? hmmm:hmm:
Oh its just going to be chock full of goodness... :)

Locutus
02-27-2003, 08:55 PM
Splinegod, you must (please) show us more.
I recently converted from 3dsmax to Lightwave and what you are showing us reassures me more and more that I've made the right choice.
:cool:

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Locutus
Splinegod, you must (please) show us more.
I recently converted from 3dsmax to Lightwave and what you are showing us reassures me more and more that I've made the right choice.
:cool:
Even without what Ive shown you DID make the right choice. :)

Thalaxis
02-27-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Even without what Ive shown you DID make the right choice. :)

Can't argue with that! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

wgreenlee1
02-27-2003, 09:35 PM
"Messiah Lite"=="SasLite"

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by wgreenlee1
"Messiah Lite"=="SasLite"
Not to worry.. :)

robkoni
02-27-2003, 10:40 PM
:eek: Your such a Tease Larry:shame:
Looks interesting and just intime for the Short I'm working on(hopefully):bounce:

Zithen
02-27-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Ick! This has nothing to do with Luxology

Whoa...why the repulsion? Ain't that Allen and Stuart, the ones working on the next LW?

SplineGod
02-27-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Zithen
Whoa...why the repulsion? Ain't that Allen and Stuart, the ones working on the next LW?
Alan and Stuart are persons. Lux is a company. Companies can contain good things as well as other unsavory things. The little "teasers" Ive posted is more then retracted promises and neato presets....ah but we dont want this thread to degenerate into another Lux discussion do we? :)

Robin,
Whats the time frame on your short?

Zithen
02-27-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Alan and Stuart are persons. Lux is a company. Companies can contain good things as well as other unsavory things. The little "teasers" Ive posted is more then retracted promises and neato presets....ah but we dont want this thread to degenerate into another Lux discussion do we? :)
Nope. Just the goods! That's all that matters.

Originally posted by SplineGod
Robin, Whats the time frame on your short?
Aehm...I'm planning a short myself. These tools would be great to have in the next, um...month or so. :) Otherwise, I'll have to use Messiah as well. That's still much faster bone wise. But I love the Time warp and Parent in Place features in LW. Hope this stuff you're showing comes soon...as well as some other stuff. It's needed.

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 12:44 AM
aha! Stay tuned then... :)

kretin
02-28-2003, 01:06 AM
Bone chopper is a plugin that's already available. I'm guessing bone breaker is a similar plug, and bone joiner would be an offshoot of that, and the others... it looks to me like Larry is working on a set of plugin tools for bone manipulation in Layout.

fletchman
02-28-2003, 02:03 AM
Wow! I just been following this thread and realize that we were getting sneak peaks at LW 8? Good Grief!!! :bounce: I can't wait to get it.....But wait it all sounds like what is done in Messiah. Hmmmm....Damn! CRASH!! That's Messiah going in the bin as I rush to get in line to get LW 8. :airguitar


BTW, Larry you ROCK!

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by kretin
Bone chopper is a plugin that's already available. I'm guessing bone breaker is a similar plug, and bone joiner would be an offshoot of that, and the others... it looks to me like Larry is working on a set of plugin tools for bone manipulation in Layout.
LOL, lucky for you kretin IM not the one doing any programming...then it would be bone sludge, bone wack and several other intersting but totally useless things for bones.
I can hear something coming... :)

LNT
02-28-2003, 02:23 AM
I can hear something coming...

whatever's coming if it has these bone tools it'll pretty much eliminate the need for plugins like TSM,ACS4 and definitely messiah

I'd rather be able to reuse my own setups on any number of meshes with the tools right inside lightwave than use 3rd party instant utilities

how about you Larry?what are your sentiments on that? :)

kretin
02-28-2003, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
LOL, lucky for you kretin IM not the one doing any programming...then it would be bone sludge, bone wack and several other intersting but totally useless things for bones.
I can hear something coming... :)

Haha, I'm much in the same boat when it comes to coding. But I'm sure that with you suggesting and testing it will be an invaluable set of tools.

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by LNT
whatever's coming if it has these bone tools it'll pretty much eliminate the need for plugins like TSM,ACS4 and definitely messiah

I'd rather be able to reuse my own setups on any number of meshes with the tools right inside lightwave than use 3rd party instant utilities

how about you Larry?what are your sentiments on that? :)
Three comments:
You read my mind
This is only the beginning :)
It will definately compliment ACS4 and TSM

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by kretin
Haha, I'm much in the same boat when it comes to coding. But I'm sure that with you suggesting and testing it will be an invaluable set of tools.
So yer saying that you wouldnt be interested in bone sludge and bone wack? Im hurt! :cry:

martignasse
02-28-2003, 02:41 AM
it's funny.
it's like a talk between a dealer and his client...:buttrock:

MF

kretin
02-28-2003, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
So yer saying that you wouldnt be interested in bone sludge and bone wack? Im hurt! :cry:

Well bone sludge does sound intriguing... like a melt deformer using bones right? Well.... stop chatting and get coding already...

Nonproductive
02-28-2003, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
It will definately compliment ACS4 and TSM

Hrmm..."compliment" - carefully chosen word or simply the way it came out?

Any timeframe we can expect something like a website or announcement? nothing specific, mind you - something along the lines of "a few weeks maybe", "a few months maybe" or even "some time this year."

Just want to know which jar I should be putting my pennies in :)

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by Nonproductive
Hrmm..."compliment" - carefully chosen word or simply the way it came out?

Any timeframe we can expect something like a website or announcement? nothing specific, mind you - something along the lines of "a few weeks maybe", "a few months maybe" or even "some time this year."

Just want to know which jar I should be putting my pennies in :)
Sometimes plugins will have some overlap...so I think compliment is a good choice. Timeframe....sooner then you think.
Penny jar...that is something I wouldnt worry about. :)

ClingFree
02-28-2003, 03:13 AM
No pennies or few pennies? Hopefully the former, but either way I'm psyched!:bounce:

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by ClingFree
No pennies or few pennies? Hopefully the former, but either way I'm psyched!:bounce:
Lots of Pennies - :mad:
Less Pennies - :D

JohnMarkR
02-28-2003, 03:34 AM
Well which one is it, lots of Pennies or Less Pennies.....:beer:

Zithen
02-28-2003, 03:53 AM
Well I'm sure this can't be LW8 (Mecca) if you don't have to worry about the "penny jar."

That's cool, because the skelegon issue was the one big issue with LW for me. If that's solved, then I'd be very content. Would like some Pose sliders, easier to use Powergon features and an update to MD so you can influence a softbody object using bones. Oh yeah...3d ghosting! Onionskinning! THen I'd be in some kind of heaven.

But if this isn't LW8, then I guess we really have some things to look forward to. :thumbsup:

Larry, if we had some design/feature ideas for LW, where do we send in those requests to? It seems now would be a good time to chime in since Newtek is hiring to obviously develop for the next LW. Or is it too late? Maybe they've already designed the new architecture?

proton
02-28-2003, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by Zithen

if we had some design/feature ideas for LW, where do we send in those requests to?



send those here:

lwfeatures@newtek.com

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by JohnMarkR
Well which one is it, lots of Pennies or Less Pennies.....:beer:
MY vote is for less pennies. :)

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by Zithen
Well I'm sure this can't be LW8 (Mecca) if you don't have to worry about the "penny jar."

That's cool, because the skelegon issue was the one big issue with LW for me. If that's solved, then I'd be very content. Would like some Pose sliders, easier to use Powergon features and an update to MD so you can influence a softbody object using bones. Oh yeah...3d ghosting! Onionskinning! THen I'd be in some kind of heaven.

But if this isn't LW8, then I guess we really have some things to look forward to. :thumbsup:

Larry, if we had some design/feature ideas for LW, where do we send in those requests to? It seems now would be a good time to chime in since Newtek is hiring to obviously develop for the next LW. Or is it too late? Maybe they've already designed the new architecture?

I hope its not too late or Newtek is gonna have to fire those new programmers. :)
As William said, Any LW8 requests should go to Newtek as usual.
As for me, if you have some cool character/bone plugin ideas Im always open to suggestions. :)

Willax
02-28-2003, 06:06 AM
Heck, bone sludge and bone wack would still be better than what I'm able to do with the rigs so far, so program away Larry:p

CTRL+X
02-28-2003, 06:13 AM
So Larry

Getting back to "it"

Since we are seeing these Screengrabs of bone editing occuring in what obviously is the layout envrionment can we assume a merged modeler and layout? in the not to distant future.


A simple yes or no will do.:p

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by CTRL+X
So Larry

Getting back to "it"

Since we are seeing these Screengrabs of bone editing occuring in what obviously is the layout envrionment can we assume a merged modeler and layout? in the not to distant future.


A simple yes or no will do.:p
Cant do a simple yes or no on this one. :)
I cant say anything on modeler/layout integration. :)
Integrated or not, I would just like to have bone editing
tools where I need them the most - in layout. :)

Zithen
02-28-2003, 06:39 AM
Seems pretty clear to me that it's not LW8, but that its probably added functionality (through a plug-in maybe) that comes with a 7.6 upgrade or something and that these goodies will come within the next month or so. Isn't NAB in April?
Hm...

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 08:56 AM
NAB? That seems so far away. :)

mattc
02-28-2003, 10:09 AM
Mmm, perhaps it 's a few long awaited changes to the underlying plugin API. :) thus enabling such bone fiun to be had in Layout. :)

Regards
Matt

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by mattc
Mmm, perhaps it 's a few long awaited changes to the underlying plugin API. :) thus enabling such bone fiun to be had in Layout. :)

Regards
Matt
I think that such bone fun has always been possible...just never done. :)

Arte
02-28-2003, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
I hope its not too late or Newtek is gonna have to fire those new programmers. :)
As William said, Any LW8 requests should go to Newtek as usual.
As for me, if you have some cool character/bone plugin ideas Im always open to suggestions. :)

What's project management like Larry, enjoying yourself?

BTW how does this impact your character series?

X

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 10:49 AM
Luckily Im not having to do any project management. Mostly input.
Its nice to work with talented but "Irrational" programmers. Its also nice to work with talented programmers who recognize the importance of collaborating with people doing production.
It will impact the character series in some good ways...both for current and future students. :)

stijn
02-28-2003, 12:29 PM
LOL "Irrational" being the Key Word here....
:bounce:
Nice one Larry!

Stijn.

= www.lemonade.nl =

anzovin
02-28-2003, 02:26 PM
Veering back from that very interesting material to TSM for LW for a second--we will have the TSM for LW 1.02 updater up later today.

http://www.anzovin.com/setupmachine/setupmachinelw.html

While there is at present no demo version, you can download demo rigs
http://www.anzovin.com/setupmachine/TSMLWrigs.html

and tutorial movies
http://www.anzovin.com/setupmachine/TSMLWmovies.html

As to the question of whether it's better to rig everything yourself and understand what's under the hood versus using an automated tool, there's one obvious advantage of automation--it saves a whole lot of time. We devved TSM to handle rigging chores on shows with many characters--we saved weeks and gained complete rig consistency.

Thanks!
Steve
Anzovin Studio
http://www.anzovin.com

proton
02-28-2003, 03:02 PM
Thanx for the update....I will look for it today!

Julez4001
02-28-2003, 03:15 PM
I see your hand controls in the sample rigs.
I find that its pretty hard to select these guys.
Its kool thought that u move the blocks and the fingers curl automatically. maybe they should have a limit to how far they move or should be moved over. I ama lil confused with the arms. They are suppose to IK, right?


Are you guys still gonna come out a Messiah version, remember in ur press ablout a year ago that you were.....

Facial Deluxe
02-28-2003, 03:36 PM
Julez seems you swap from IK to FK with the lil sider at the top lef of the screen. Looks good to me :)

lightwolf
02-28-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
I think that such bone fun has always been possible...just never done. :)

Well, it has been possible since 7.5 (Looking at the SDK). Neat ideas, can't wait either... :thumbsup:

mattc
02-28-2003, 05:15 PM
Larry,

Bone fun yes....other fun no. :)

AFAIK, plugins can't sample surfaces changes nor cast any new rays nor share information amongst themselves. Fixing these three limitations would certainly open up alot of new and interesting possibilites.

Regards
Matt

faulknermano
02-28-2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Luckily Im not having to do any project management. Mostly input.
Its nice to work with talented but "Irrational" programmers. Its also nice to work with talented programmers who recognize the importance of collaborating with people doing production.
It will impact the character series in some good ways...both for current and future students. :)

actually i was very happy that larry was at least part of some betatesting team. i do not know if he was ever part of any before.. but i'm glad that people like larry are making a direct mark on development.

soo... at least at release, we can start blaming someone other than the newtek dev team. :applause: ;D

CIM
02-28-2003, 06:06 PM
Hm, just looks like somebody re-did already existing scripts/plugins.

Nonproductive
02-28-2003, 06:09 PM
To summarize Larry's previous comments as I interpret them:

~LW is getting new bone tools for Layout. Tools at least include ability to break bones, fuse bones, move joints and add bones between other bones. (based off screenshots)

~They will be a plugin. (this one is iffy...based on his "plugins should overlap" comment in reference to ACS4 and TSM)

~They will be low or no cost (less pennies comment)

~They will probably be out before April ("April seems so far away" comment)

~being developed by "'irrational' programmers" - Irrational Games? is there a studio named Irrational? Or are they simply irrational because of their undertaking?

~The feeling is that the tools will offer very similar functionality to Messiah's rigging tools.

~Larry is actively involved in testing and offering feedback on these tools.


I miss anything?

Thalaxis
02-28-2003, 06:13 PM
My theory, based on what Larry's said so far is that it will be here within a month (some NewTek'ers including Proton have dropped hints that support this also) and that it's part of a LightWave update, hence the price tag and complementary comments.

But that's just a theory. :bounce:

UserDelta
02-28-2003, 06:22 PM
i have some bone setup suggestions for you. mainly dealing with symmetry, fix and mirror, not just bones but with anything attatched. so say you can just rig one side and have it mirrored to the other, or if one side is messed up, it can be fixed quickly.

UserDelta
02-28-2003, 06:51 PM
my guess is that its part of an update.

these tools are so simple and so wanted, it would be foolish not to be part of it.
also i would doubt there needs to be a team of programers to create a few scripts to sell for pennies :)
then there is no special interface showing something like "joemans bonepak," its unlikely that a 3rd party would sell tools that dont have their names on it :)
and also this would not be a very good time to release a plugin with tools that might/should be in the update that we've all heard is supposed to be out like NOW.

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Nonproductive
To summarize Larry's previous comments as I interpret them:

~LW is getting new bone tools for Layout. Tools at least include ability to break bones, fuse bones, move joints and add bones between other bones. (based off screenshots)

~They will be a plugin. (this one is iffy...based on his "plugins should overlap" comment in reference to ACS4 and TSM)

~They will be low or no cost (less pennies comment)

~They will probably be out before April ("April seems so far away" comment)

~being developed by "'irrational' programmers" - Irrational Games? is there a studio named Irrational? Or are they simply irrational because of their undertaking?

~The feeling is that the tools will offer very similar functionality to Messiah's rigging tools.

~Larry is actively involved in testing and offering feedback on these tools.


I miss anything?
I dont see why anyone would call you Nonproductive. ;)

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by CIM
Hm, just looks like somebody re-did already existing scripts/plugins.
Which existing scripts/plugins might those be?
If they do you should have told us. :)

nemac4
02-28-2003, 07:28 PM
Now we just need a nice maya like dopesheet. or super keytrak kind of thing:airguitar :lightbulb

David Mitchell

KOryH
02-28-2003, 08:10 PM
Yeah I have to agree with CIM, I have seen ALL this before.
And I use them already.

Bone chopper and sticky bones come to mind immediatly.

I don't know maybe I'm missing something :shrug:

Even if it is the coolest thing ever, which I doubt, I think it is extremely rude to take over a thread based on another product.

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by KOryH
Yeah I have to agree with CIM, I have seen ALL this before.
And I use them already.

Bone chopper and sticky bones come to mind immediatly.

I don't know maybe I'm missing something :shrug:

Even if it is the coolest thing ever, which I doubt, I think it is extremely rude to take over a thread based on another product.
Are you and CIM drinking buddies or something?
I talked to Rob Powers and he said it was ok to take the thread over. If you have free plugins that do this....great!

CIM
02-28-2003, 09:28 PM
Na, I don't drink. :wip:

anzovin
02-28-2003, 09:37 PM
Heard the word from inside Newtek--7.5b will not include new rigging or bone-handling tools. Current boning/rigging plug-ins, including The Setup Machine, will not become obsolete.

Steve
Anzovin Studio
http://www.anzovin.com/setupmachine/setupmachinelw.html

VirtualFM
02-28-2003, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by KOryH
Yeah I have to agree with CIM, I have seen ALL this before.
And I use them already.

Bone chopper and sticky bones come to mind immediatly.

I don't know maybe I'm missing something :shrug:


You must be missing something... I also use BoneChopper and Sticky Bones. Both of the sticky kind. They help, but don't come close to what Larry showed here. There is nothing in LW that allows to interactivelly move joints, AFAIK. And Bonechopper is equivalent to just 25% of the samples we saw (4, I think).

anzovin
02-28-2003, 09:51 PM
Kevin Fanning of Shooters Post & Transfer (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/axis3d), sent us a nice little anim of our four-armed, forked-tailed, fingers-for-toes alien.
http://www.rafhashvideotapes.com/lib/rafhashvideotapes/alienwalk.mov
The free rig's here:
http://www.rafhashvideotapes.com/lib/rafhashvideotapes/TSMLWalien.zip
Thanks, Kevin!

Steve
Anzovin Studio
http://www.anzovin.com/setupmachine/setupmachinelw.html

proton
02-28-2003, 10:21 PM
Very cool anim! Thanx for sharing!

SplineGod
02-28-2003, 11:28 PM
Ive moved the discussion about this bone plugin over to here:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46814

Julez4001
03-01-2003, 02:54 AM
hahhahaa...
By the time they get all of the plugins to mimick the functions of messiah, you can total it all up and buy messiah instead. Still no setup mode abd yes if you mirror your bones the IK follow it as well.

I will say this about TSM..lie the layout on the rigs but dammit if the lag time doesn't creep up in IK. If you never iuse messiah .. then you don't what I am talking about. if you have, you know what I mean.

Its not a TSM thing but a lw thing.
So hard trying to leave that program.

CIM
03-01-2003, 03:07 AM
Hopefully, Newtek has plans to optimize the animation environment of LW.

SplineGod
03-01-2003, 03:12 AM
I believe they do plan to.
What would you suggest that they could do to optimize things?

Julez4001
03-01-2003, 03:15 AM
yeah, All the great rigging tools is coming out and the ik/deformation is still 1998 standard. Its just not messiah thats very sensitive to the user but apps like Maya and XSI are just quick too.....

Lw has this 1-2 sec drag.... (depending what Ik and plugins u have it on)
I mean you can animate and all but its just irritaing.

In Inspired Character Animation, one of the interviews had a lead animator mention that a animation rig should be instanteously in position and playing back so animators can gauge thier timing as they moving the rig and not relaying on recorded playbacks. I have ti agree.


Mind you, i animate in both, but P:messiah is my preference.



Spline....

Its what i always suggest. Just blantly rip off the standard s that messiah put in itself and be done with it. Its 2003, and it still ain't there yet.
http://www.projectmessiah.com/x2/vids/messiah_violette_screen.mpg

Take a full rig (object at 15,000 polys) and with 6 Ik chains and say 4 expressions, let that be the lowest standard for normal operations.

CTRL+X
03-01-2003, 03:17 AM
So what I was seeing was third party????:surprised ..... I thought I was getting a glimpse into 8...... oh well, thanks Larry for sharing!!!:thumbsup:




Keep Wavin':wavey:

faulknermano
03-01-2003, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by SplineGod
I believe they do plan to.
What would you suggest that they could do to optimize things?

if you had to ask :D: navigation behavior. make it behave more like modeler and less than layout.

however, get rid of the banking tendency of modeler. but it would be great to be able to pan and dolly based on the current view, as if you were moving the camera in "local" coordinate mode, as opposed to the current "world" coordinate mode. this might be secondary to some, but to me, but it's really slow going trying to get to places...

in short: look at maya's navigation behavior and that's what i'm talking about.

SplineGod
03-01-2003, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by CTRL+X
So what I was seeing was third party????:surprised ..... I thought I was getting a glimpse into 8...... oh well, thanks Larry for sharing!!!:thumbsup:




Keep Wavin':wavey:
I have high hopes for LW8 actually. Between what Newtek is cooking up and other developers things are looking very good. :)

SplineGod
03-01-2003, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by Julez4001
yeah, All the great rigging tools is coming out and the ik/deformation is still 1998 standard. Its just not messiah thats very sensitive to the user but apps like Maya and XSI are just quick too.....

Lw has this 1-2 sec drag.... (depending what Ik and plugins u have it on)
I mean you can animate and all but its just irritaing.

In Inspired Character Animation, one of the interviews had a lead animator mention that a animation rig should be instanteously in position and playing back so animators can gauge thier timing as they moving the rig and not relaying on recorded playbacks. I have ti agree.


Mind you, i animate in both, but P:messiah is my preference.



Spline....

Its what i always suggest. Just blantly rip off the standard s that messiah put in itself and be done with it. Its 2003, and it still ain't there yet.
http://www.projectmessiah.com/x2/vids/messiah_violette_screen.mpg

Take a full rig (object at 15,000 polys) and with 6 Ik chains and say 4 expressions, let that be the lowest standard for normal operations.
I completely agree. Thats a very good direction to go in. :)

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