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pixlart
02-06-2007, 01:35 AM
I have some exciting news on the Painter front:

Painter has reached ten—version 10, that is. Officially known as Corel Painter X, (http://www.corel.com/painterx) this edition continues to innovate with ground-breaking features. I’ve always enjoyed the point in software development when all of the elements—the features, packaging, advertising layouts, and all of the associated details—finally come together. What was several related concepts congeals —the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Painter X is such a release. Painter was founded on the principle of faithfully capturing the artist’s gesture for the purpose of creative expression. Painter X is no exception to the rule.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8238/painterxstdengdualfj6.jpg (http://www.corel.com/painterx)

The new RealBristle Painting System represents a significant evolution in digital paint tools. RealBristle brushes deftly respond to the subtle nuances of the hand, translating this motion into strokes imbued with complex expression. The result are the most realistic digital brush strokes ever seen. Add a Wacom 6D Pen and the results are further enhanced.

Painter began its life primarily known a start-with-a-blank-canvas artist’s tool. In the intervening years, digital technology has engulfed traditional film-based cameras. The digital camera is now ubiquitous to the point of being an accessory on mobile phones. Likewise, Painter has become an accessory to digital cameras. With these two mediums converged, you can now easily dip your paintbrush into a photograph.


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5063/sisterssourcedf6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Original Photograph ©Dustine Wallace

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2620/sistersei4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Auto-painting using Smart Strokes


Using a photograph as a source image, the enhanced Photo Painting System produces convincing hand-painted results with a single mouse click. This feat is made possible by the Smart Stroke Painting option. Initially analyzing the source image’s content, Smart Strokes dynamically change brush size, stroke length, and pressure based on the detail and focal areas of the original photo. Strokes intelligently follow the forms of the original subject matter. All of this translates into an amazing breakthrough enabling the drawing-challenged to produce remarkable finished art. Smart Stroke Painting is going to be an out-of-the-park homerun for photographers!

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3099/sistersdetailwo4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
100% Detail


In the past, an artist had to pre-mix his color palette to match the painting’s subject matter. Both Painter X’s Match Palette effect and Color Schemes (Underpainting palette) provide the ability to apply another image’s color palette to an existing image. The effect can be deftly subtle—matching the color and tonality of one photograph to another, for example. Or creatively dramatic—applying the palette of Picasso’s Three Musicians to a painting in progress, for example. Try that with traditional tools!

Every time new features are added to Painter, its interface grows. Users, take heart! The new Workspace Manager provides a complete solution for organizing and saving palette, brush, and library visibility. For example, you can now decide which variants you want accessible in each Brush Category, turning off the unused ones in the Workspace Manager (you can turn them back on at any time). Multiple Workspaces can be saved for streamlined workflow depending on the task at hand.

More importantly, saved Workspaces are encapsulated into a single portable file that is easily shared with others—perfect for placing one Workspace with its brushes into many hands. Speaking as an educator, this feature alone makes Painter X worth its weight in gold for teaching workshops.

Both Windows and Mac users have cause for celebration. On the Windows front, Painter X is compatible with Windows Vista™. And on the Mac, Painter is now a Universal Binary, enabling it to run natively on both Intel- and PowerPC-based systems.

Beyond the big features, it is the attention to small details that makes Painter X shine. An Auto-Backup feature, session-independent Color Management, Tracker settings that stay put. Little things, but they add up.

I advise you to now get yourself into a seated position. The printed User Guide has returned! What’s next…a paint can? That’s right, Painter X acknowledges its roots through the offer of a limited edition one-gallon paint can. Both the retail packaging and limited edition include an updated Welcome book showcasing Painter art, poster, and a cool compositional aid.


http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1238/pxcankl9.jpg (http://www.corel.com/painterx)
Corel Painter X Limited Edition paint can


It may sound cliché, but this is the best version of Painter ever. Corel has paid a great deal of attention to user requests, as well as the small details that add up to a well-oiled creative expressive machine. Painter’s not getting older—it’s getting better!

Download the free Corel PainterX trial here. (http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CorelCom/ProcessLayout&lc=en&ppg=CorelCorp/Trials/Login&pid=1166553885920&cid=1166553988629&trkid=pxs7w1)

Looking for the best-of-breed in visually expressive software? X marks the spot!

Viva la Painter X!

-john

brenly
02-06-2007, 03:01 AM
and I was just about to upgrade to 9.5 from 8 ... now Ill have to wait that little longer!

Yacomo
02-06-2007, 08:48 AM
:bounce:
Congrats!

This is the update I've been most waiting for for this year :)

Now I hope it doesn't take too long for it to become available in good old europe...

Hecartha
02-06-2007, 10:28 AM
-nice, it is not necessary anymore now to group layers before collapsing them, at least!

-The new enhanced brush ghosting can inform now of the orientation, tilt and rotation (only Wacom Art Marker) of any brushes (like artrage but with the tilt and roation info added). Anyway it needs few resource i cannot use for that with my poor computer. Fortunately i can deactivate it.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/EnhancedBrushGhosting.png

-I can see now an annoying bug using any circular dab type, the tilt of my stylus changes the position of where i am painting. The problem is if i start a line with my stylus tilted, painter gives this annoying effect
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/PainterX01.jpg
*EDIT* in fact the bug appeared when i changed the dab type from a RealBristle brush. I think the bug comes from the fact i have not unchecked the "Enable RealBristle" box from the RealBristle panel when i changed for the circular dab type. So there is an easy way to prevent this annoying bug, uncheck this box before changing dab type and everything will be fine.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/PainterX02.jpg

-When a selection is active it is still not possible to transform it in layer mask.

-The new RealBristle acts more natural than any other brushes but for any reason it is only fully controllable by the wacom art marker. There is no means to use the bearing of your stylus to control orientation. It is available in two new dab types, "Blend Camel Hair" and "Blend Flat". But it can be used with all of these dab types: Camel Hair, Flat, Palette Knife and Bristle Spray.
Here the controls (image made by dddo (http://w3.poporo.ne.jp/%7Edddo/))

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/realbristlebrushcontrols.jpg
A really good new brush!

- We can now transform any shape with scale, rotate or flip but it is still not possible with text layer. Anyway the adjust tool from the toolbox still allows these kind of operation.

-We don't need anymore to activate again the "Screen Mode Toggle" when we are hiding palettes.

-*EDIT* Your cursor changes now when you are resizing vertically any combined panels (as the layers and channels panel). (i thought it was impossible in IX version lol)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/PainterX03.jpg

-Painter X uses now integrated thumbnail in its saved files and psd files created in Painter can now be previewed in other third party program.

-When you are opening an image in painter X, the open window allows you to use a "browse" button which gives you the possibility to see all the thumbnails from a folder. BUT painter seems still unable to preview common files from other program.

-we still need to select the canvas "layer" before painter allows to use the "Canvas Resize..." option.

-and the old bug when resizing the canvas to bottom and right area is still there. This bug does not allow to paint on layers on these added areas. There is still the two solutions to correct that:
-move the layer and undo this command.
-or save and reload your document.

I need time to test it more now

Mu
02-06-2007, 04:41 PM
I guess everyone knows how much you identify with that product/project of yours, so congratz on the new version!

I looked through the X presentation page on corel.com and I don't exactly get the realbristle thing... I watched the presentation video and the strokes did look fine, but maybe someone could explain what the technical improvements are?

The workspace manager looks awesome! That alone might justify an upgrade.

Are there any technical issues with running IX.5 and the X-trial on the same PC? I don't wanna ruin my existing installation of IX.5, you know...:D

tayete
02-06-2007, 05:00 PM
OMG, I lost all my contacts and email account when I changed last year from my older job to the present one, and I haven't received any news about the beta testing! :sad::scream:

It seems like a nice effort to get back to the strongest points of Painter, plus adding long-time requested new features. I think I am going to love this new version of my favourite software, and maybe it makes me change from my old Wacom Intuos to a brand new Wacom 3...Let's see what my wife says (he he , I know I have the kids on my side in whatever is related to a Wacom).

How much will it be upgrading from 9.5 to X? I'll take a look at corel's web when I get back home...

UPDATE: 219USD the upgrade...and IT HAS A COMPOSITION TOOL!!! I had just bought a plugin for Photoshop that does that same thing (obviously, to be used with PIX.5).

Philippec
02-06-2007, 06:13 PM
I looked through the X presentation page on corel.com and I don't exactly get the realbristle thing... I watched the presentation video and the strokes did look fine, but maybe someone could explain what the technical improvements are?

I guess it's something you have to try. It's the way it reacts to your pressure, your tilt, the angle of your pen that makes it special. For instance, press harder and the bristles "fan out" like real bristles.

It's at its best on a tablet.

Are there any technical issues with running IX.5 and the X-trial on the same PC? I don't wanna ruin my existing installation of IX.5, you know...:D

None that I'm aware of. I run Painter 8, IX and X on the same system with no issues.

rattsang
02-06-2007, 06:59 PM
i was looking forward to this update soooooo much... but found it rather disappointing after downloading the demo. there are some improvments on ix.5 but for me at least it doesn't yet seem worth the upgrade (only had it for 1hour) i mean sure it seems more stable- but i was actually expecting there to be a stability patch for the version i already paid for. well i guess this remains to be seen. before i was thinking i'll upgrade painter not photoshop but now i think it'll be the other way around..............

i stand corrected it isn't even more stable :'(

brenly
02-06-2007, 11:57 PM
do you still get the little box preview when you use a filter .. please God I hope they have got rid of that!!!

just downloaded the trial version and as I expected yes we are still forced to use the small box preview. Would have been nice if we were given some more dynamic layer plugins like adjust colors. Still cant flip a group without the group flipping out.

just did a quick side side test between 9.5 and 10 and the brushes seem to give the same performance and speed.

unless Im missing something .. I see no reason to get the upgrade ???

Philippec
02-07-2007, 04:43 AM
just downloaded the trial version and as I expected yes we are still forced to use the small box preview.

Although the preview is small, at least you can pan it by clicking and dragging so it's not completely useless.

unless Im missing something .. I see no reason to get the upgrade ???

It's up to you to decide if you want the upgrade or not. I think that a lot of people are going to like the new Real Bristle brush. Or the fact that you can share your workspace(s) (or have multiple workspaces). Or that you can customize your workspace, turning off features you don't use. Or that Painter now only uses 15 MB per user instead of the old 150 MB in Painter IX (great if you have multiple users on your computer). Or the full Vista compliance (or Universal Binary, if you're on Mac). Etc.

To each his own. I think it's a great version.

brenly
02-07-2007, 05:47 AM
Painter now only uses 15 MB per user instead of the old 150 MB

nice to see

actually I did a quick test to see if this is true and found that Painter X is more memory hungry. The task manager showed that for the same pictures X used atleast 10% more memory .. :sad:

Jinbrown
02-07-2007, 05:51 AM
Hi Philippe,

After using Painter for 12 years, through 7 versions, I'm delighted to say that I agree.

Painter X is a terrific version with several new features most Painter artists will love, and which they'll find make their work far easier, more efficient, more exciting, and more fun.


Sincere thanks to the whole Painter Team at Corel for all their hard work, and for presenting us with a marvelous new Painter X!

(The "whole Painter Team" includes Rick Champagne, Corel Painter Product Manager, the Painter development team, the Painter X website designers and producers, the Marketing folks, and the Painter Masters who contributed such beautiful artwork.... not to mention the others at Corel who worked behind the scenes and deserve as much appreciation.)


As John says,

Viva la Painter X!

Xevious
02-07-2007, 06:24 AM
I'm assuming that this version X Painter will work on both the 32 bit and 64 bit Vista....

Yeah...I'm getting this for sure.

Per-Anders
02-07-2007, 07:09 AM
Seems nice so far although the "RealBristle" seems to use a totally arbitrary brush angle, perhaps I need to check wacom and see if there's an updated driver (although it seems to be seeing the angle of my pen just fine from the preview).

It should work as an actual hogshair or fan brush would with the angle most typically set so the head is flat and even on the surface (compared to whatever direction the brush handle is facing), that way you can use it's shape to actually cut an sharp edge and line painting sideways and paint accross a form naturally when painting accross, controlling the angle before you start and finish the stroke, as opposed to the painter rather odd palette knife assumption of 90 degrees out for pen angle control of brush angle and the seemingly arbitrary angle used in the realbristle brush where it seems like you can't control angle before starting a stroke at all... or even during really (though I'm asuming there is some logic involved, so far it's evaded me), as it crashed on trying to access the help I may have to wait on that one till a fix is made available.

Per-Anders
02-07-2007, 07:25 AM
Modifying the "Angle" setting slider in the brush settings Under "Angle" doesn't update the actual value in the numeric input.

Accessing anything in the "Help" menu = instaboom.

Jinbrown
02-07-2007, 07:40 AM
Modifying the "Angle" setting slider in the brush settings Under "Angle" doesn't update the actual value in the numeric input.


Hi,

It does that for me, too. My solution, until Corel provides one is to either:



Type the Angle degree number then click in a blank area of the Angle palette, outside the number field, or
Move the Angle slider, then click in a blank area of the Angle palette, outside the number field.
Using either method updates the Angle degree number field.


Accessing anything in the "Help" menu = instaboom.


Sorry, I don't have any suggestions for this one yet.



.....................

Per-Anders
02-07-2007, 07:54 AM
Yup it seems the angle for "RealBristle" brushes is uncontrollable currently. Is this setting designed to only work with the "Artpen" perhaps? (did no-one test it with a normal tablet pen?). Even when dragging horizontally (which is it's default "flat" angle it seems) it starts out twisted and unds up rotating out to it's flat angle if your tilt is too great.

Shame as otherwise i could see that this would make for a pretty interesting brush variant, especially if it had some more grainy loading control, integration with the artists oils effects and perhaps per brustle drying out (or handling of the effect of more dry brushing effects and a something akin to the classic graphic paintbrush before the brushing engine changed and stopped that from working properly).

Per-Anders
02-07-2007, 08:25 AM
Ok to solve the mystery of the twisting bristles, it's actually related to bearing after all in a strange way, it seems it's been set up totally for either a right handed person (which I am not) or is instrinsically linked to the angle of the brush (which is apparently semi-fixed in place unless apparently you use an art pen), if you angle your pen towards the right and pain accross you get flat strokes with no twists. The twisting is coming from the simulation simply trying to be accurate (and that's fine, if only there were a way to actually control the brush angle without having to buy or use the artpen), so it's not a bug as such.

Per-Anders
02-07-2007, 08:56 AM
Ok, perhaps this is linked to the nonresponsive RealBristles, but it seems that none of the brush previews rotation/angles show any relation to the actual rotation during painting, even on such simple things as the felt pens, the brush preview stays solidly horizontal throughout the stroke regardless of how the angle expression is set, this makes it seem rather confusing to use.

Either no-one tested with a non artpen, or Painter is totally geared towards/locked into the artpen thing (which given the fact that the artpen isn't even standard with wacom tablets seems a bit, uh, unfair shall we say).

Does anyone know if Corel added a flat opacity method yet as opposed to it's flow method? Something like photoshops handling of brush opacity rather than painters constant build-up which will eventually reach 100% solid regardless of the opacity setting (which really should be renamed "flow").

Philippec
02-07-2007, 03:36 PM
actually I did a quick test to see if this is true and found that Painter X is more memory hungry. The task manager showed that for the same pictures X used atleast 10% more memory .. :sad:

1. Don't believe everything the Task Manager tells you. It's not very precise.

2. I was writing about space on disk, not RAM footprint. New Painter features (like RealBristle) require more RAM, of course. But nothing significant.

And the startup times are now much faster...

pixlart
02-07-2007, 06:41 PM
The full range of the RealBristle brushes is realized only with the 6D Pen.

While that may leave current ArtPen holders feeling left out, the future of expressive media emulation lies in technology that polls all six dimensions of the artist's hand motion. The RealMedia brushes take advantage of this.

It is an option you'll need to consider if you want all of your hand's input transmitted to Painter.

-john

aadams
02-07-2007, 08:33 PM
why did they do such a poor job with the upgrade?

its like they added some ok stuff...compositional aid looks interesting....but they forget to fortify certain keypoints of the package...its like corel fell into the plugin this in plug that in...paradigm....

although the new workspace stuff is cool....what gives with the gimickey photo-->painting tool? waste of development bucks...not because of whether it is cool or not...but because that development labor should have gone to make many parts of the program deeper...or easier to access.

too many times people put too much weight on the new feature thing...and not improve the features we already have.

just look at the user wishlists and its all there....

but we get the upgrade anyway so hey...I hope I am wrong!

pixlart
02-07-2007, 08:57 PM
what gives with the gimickey photo-->painting tool? waste of development bucks...not because of whether it is cool or not...but because that development labor should have gone to make many parts of the program deeper...or easier to access.

Painter addresses multiple target markets. While intelligently applied photo-painting may not appeal to you, it doesn't mean that is a worthless feature to others—the photography market, for example.

Smart Stroke technology helps to open the door for the drawing-challenged, but does not create "automatic" art. Basically, it can be used as a tool to provide the starting point for creating unique self-styled art.

Many photogs feel that they are lacking in drawing skills and intimidated by applications like Painter. Smart Strokes can help to overcome this and enable them to find a stylistic partner for their images through organized experimentation.

Smart Strokes will never match the facile touch of many artists on this forum—human touch and emotion are not yet software plugins.

-john

marlouin
02-07-2007, 09:04 PM
aadams you're completely right.

There is a ton of little things that should have been fixed, they are obvious (example the tiny preview with filters). I think that is the weak point of Painter, will it drag all those usability holes, from versions to versions?

Well, at least it's compatible with intel macs and vista...

rattsang
02-07-2007, 09:12 PM
isn't that what painter essentials is for john?

in all fairness you can't say this release isn't a bit of a let down especially considering the potential of painter and all the great ideas and feedback listed on the wishlist. and whats with the can?? im sorry but its a gimic and it insult the intelligence of the consumer. im not having a go at anyone, i just don't feel this is a quality product. and from the fourms it looks like im not the only one.

and on the note of painter for photographers, painter isn't viable as a photo editing package anyway- there are few (and awkward) filters, no colour modes, no rbg channels -i mean compared to photoshop- i'd never touch a photo with painter. now painter is in some kind of limbo between a unstable painting package full of basic bugs (ever try using the line tool- crashes after a few lines every time) that are ignored and a tacky half hearted attempt at a photo editing package. where even if it is used for the "photo manipulation painting" will still be heavily reliant on photoshop for all other aspects of editing.

Taltos
02-07-2007, 09:13 PM
Does anyone know if Corel added a flat opacity method yet as opposed to it's flow method? Something like photoshops handling of brush opacity rather than painters constant build-up which will eventually reach 100% solid regardless of the opacity setting (which really should be renamed "flow").
I'd like to know that, too :shrug:

Per-Anders
02-07-2007, 10:03 PM
The full range of the RealBristle brushes is realized only with the 6D Pen.

While that may leave current ArtPen holders feeling left out, the future of expressive media emulation lies in technology that polls all six dimensions of the artist's hand motion. The RealMedia brushes take advantage of this.

It is an option you'll need to consider if you want all of your hand's input transmitted to Painter.

-john

Nice marketing pitch for the 6D... but sorry, that's drivel.

Sorry, look I know a lot of work goes into any software release, but this really sounds like a snub to me, as a user I don't find that very acceptable. Perhaps I missed it, but I don't see any bare minimum requirements of a Wacom Intuous 3 line tablet or Cintiq 21/18ux with a 6D Pen, as it is I feel this is tantamount to bait & switch.

I also think this shows a lack of proper software development, design and testing or a complete kowtowing to an external vendor. Anything could have been used to control the angle, it's not as if the angle palette isn't already extant.

Right now the way things are, this makes the upgrade paltry to say the least and a slap in the face to many existing users. This is not something I can currently recommend to any colleagues.

I would ask the Corel reconsider it's line on this and instead allow some actual control to be in the hands of the users, it would only allow for more flexibility and power after all, it is only one setting that changes a tool from being unusable to potentially having a substantial value. I would also recommend listening to all those matte painters and other artists asking for correct brush opacity controls, again this is maybe not something that will figure greatly in marketing, or even make it as a new feature check box, but it is important to many.

brenly
02-07-2007, 10:13 PM
Painter addresses multiple target markets. While intelligently applied photo-painting may not appeal to you, it doesn't mean that is a worthless feature to others—the photography market, for example.
-john
We understand that but from what Ive seen of the upgrade I cant see any advice taken from requests at this forum. The brush management tool is great ... thats it??? It seems as though all the very few improvement decisions were based on marketing aimed at the lowest common denomina. I cant even force myself to buy the upgrade.

intelligently applied photo-painting = gimmick plug in

ZeroPhobia
02-07-2007, 11:46 PM
I'm definitely disappointed with this ''upgrade'', :sad: nothing for my taste here, nothing exiting to scream about or any real! improvements in general. I'll be waiting for version 11 or 12, till then I'll stick with painter8.1 :thumbsup:

Why don't you just downgrade it to painter classic? (just kidding) :applause:

Philippec
02-08-2007, 03:56 AM
isn't that what painter essentials is for john?

Ha! When Painter Essentials 3 was released, there was an outcry from the Painter community: "But why can't we do this [autopaint] in the full Painter version? Corel should be ashamed of making me buy two versions [Essentials and Full] to get the full range of the product!"

This led to Painter IX.5.

and on the note of painter for photographers, painter isn't viable as a photo editing package anyway

Please. Maybe for you, but there are quite a few people who make a very good living turning photos into paintings.

There is a target market for each release. Corel tries to leave no one behind (i.e. not remove functionality that was already there), but they explore new markets that you don't seem to be a part of. Sorry for you, but no one's forcing you to upgrade.

Philippec
02-08-2007, 04:17 AM
Nice marketing pitch for the 6D... but sorry, that's drivel.
[...] Perhaps I missed it, but I don't see any bare minimum requirements of a Wacom Intuous 3 line tablet or Cintiq 21/18ux with a 6D Pen, as it is I feel this is tantamount to bait & switch.

Say what? You can use Painter with a mouse, but it works better with a tablet. And it will work better with an Intuos than a Graphire (more pressure levels, bearing). And it will work better with a 6D pen (rotation).

Do you complain that your Watercolor painting doesn't come out fine even though you used the most expensive Watercolor paper with a Home Depot paintbrush? The paper has no minimum requirements.

Philippec
02-08-2007, 04:26 AM
We understand that but from what Ive seen of the upgrade I cant see any advice taken from requests at this forum. The brush management tool is great ... thats it???

It's faster. It works native on Vista / Intel Macs. It has RealBristles. It has composition tools. It has SmartStrokes for auto-painting. A Match Color palette: paint with colors from a reference picture. Dodge and Burn tools. Tons of bug fixes. Its disk footprint is massively reduced (from 150MB per user to < 15MB per user). [Edit] And don't forget the enhanced brush ghost! It no longer disappears when you are painting, so less guesswork about "what will happen now...".

If that's not good enough for you, fine. But it's plenty for a lot of people!

intelligently applied photo-painting = gimmick plug in

For you, maybe. For others (like me, who can't draw!), it's a godsend. And it's not a plug-in. You can't duplicate what this does with Photoshop plugins. This is natural-media painting, with overlappping strokes. Not a one-pass effect.

Philippec
02-08-2007, 04:30 AM
I'm definitely disappointed with this ''upgrade'', :sad: nothing for my taste here, nothing exiting to scream about or any real! improvements in general. I'll be waiting for version 11 or 12, till then I'll stick with painter8.1

If Painter 8 does what you need, then by all means keep using it.

However, I hope you are not passing judgment solely based on what you read online. As you probably know, you can try Painter X free of charge, for 30 days, by downloading it from the Corel website.

Since you skipped Painter IX, I think you're in for a pleasant surprise.

Per-Anders
02-08-2007, 05:38 AM
Say what? You can use Painter with a mouse, but it works better with a tablet. And it will work better with an Intuos than a Graphire (more pressure levels, bearing). And it will work better with a 6D pen (rotation).

Do you complain that your Watercolor painting doesn't come out fine even though you used the most expensive Watercolor paper with a Home Depot paintbrush? The paper has no minimum requirements.

Sorry I don't do watercolor.

Read again, I don't see why an advertised new feature the realbristle system (and the brush preview system), i.e. an incentive to upgrade is unusable without a peripheral that not only is non standard and therefore costs more, but many see as in it's current incarnation a retrograde step. Now, I dare you to tell me that this function is usable without a 6D art pen, if you can claim that with a straight face, then chances are you've not tried it for any length of time.

I was given a blow off and piece of marketing froth for a product I do not wish to own as a solution to a fundamental problem in the application, it's design and ever more clearly it's testing and input sources, placing the blame on me for not owning this extra tool that is no-where declared as a prerequisite... well sorry if I don't see that as very customer friendly or useful.

A unique idea would have been to implement the tool inline with the existing work flow paradigms within the application thus leaving it open to users of both the 6D pen and users of existing tablets and tools to tailer to their own choice and even create more interesting brush concepts with. As you cannot do this not only is the tool restricted to a much smaller user base but the overall usefulness of the tool and general work flow has been compromised for no reason than hubris. It's not as if using a 6D will give you "expressive media emulation" or an accurate representation here anyway especially considering that it emulates a felt pen, while the realbristle technology is emulating a brush, if you can't tell the difference or wouldn't hold either differently then I can recommend a line of watercolor brushes at Home Depot.

Art2
02-08-2007, 07:01 AM
At first I was excited about this upgrade, but after reading some of your experiences I'm rather dissappointed.
What are your experiences with the "4x" faster speed of PainterX?

I will try it out myself of course when I have time.

brenly
02-08-2007, 07:43 AM
As I previously mentioned .. I noticed absolutely no speed increase at all. I ran Painter 10 and 9.5. Used the exact same brushes and to my eye they seemed to run exactly the same!

Per-Anders
02-08-2007, 08:02 AM
It feels like it may be a little zippier with some brushes, there is however a noticeable banding at the start and end of certain brush strokes, currently the app is a little unstable.

Mu
02-08-2007, 08:41 AM
considering that it emulates a felt pen, while the realbristle technology is emulating a brush

yea, but as far as I know it was also meant to enable the artist to make use of movements like rolling off of the brush tip, so...

Really, what I think most people confuse is "customer support" and "marketing", here.

If you feel that the version you bought was a letdown, by all means, go and cry out for help, email the devteam, make forum posts explaining what's wrong about the product you bought and why customer service should be helping you.

I can tell you from my own experience that they are a helpful bunch of people.

If on the other hand, their marketing a new product does not sound attractive to you, why the hell don't you just shrug and look the other way?
What led you to the basically wrong impression that they kind of owe you a certain product other than the one you purchased?

Misconceptions like these lead to a forum flooded with accusations (many of them by people who seem to have specially registered for the sake of using the forum as a vomitarium - thanks folks...:rolleyes: )

long sentence short: hey... just don't buy... don't loose any sleep over it, eh?
:)

Per-Anders
02-08-2007, 08:58 AM
Right, but what I feel you might be doing is making some assumptions there.

Lets just say that I feel I have a right and I'm talking about support but getting marketing. I like to keep most of my kit up to date and in general I like to support the development of the tools that I use, in this case it seems all too rashly.

BillyBrusher
02-08-2007, 09:41 AM
I am using a Mac Pro and Painter 9.5 works like a dream with no problems I just tried the new demo and everytime I use the lasso selection tool painter just closes on me. Wonder if this has happened to anyone else?

I have sent a report to corel and apple.

rattsang
02-08-2007, 09:46 AM
Please. Maybe for you, but there are quite a few people who make a very good living turning photos into paintings.

There is a target market for each release. Corel tries to leave no one behind (i.e. not remove functionality that was already there), but they explore new markets that you don't seem to be a part of. Sorry for you, but no one's forcing you to upgrade.

hi philippec,

maybe you misunderstood that paragraph- ive no grip againts ppl turning photos int o paintings- but as well as changing strokes other things n=eed to be addressed- in particular color editing tools such as separate channels, decent selection tools and the list goes on. the fact is painter is still no better at editing photos- in fact if some if the fuctionallity off photoshops photo editing was incorporated into this "update" and thats all i'd have bought it in a heart beat. i seriously doubt anyone loads a photo straight for a scan (for example) and runs one of thoese underpainting things- if you want a good image post- processing is essential and painter at the moment doesn't offer that.

Per-Anders
02-08-2007, 09:48 AM
I am using a Mac Pro and Painter 9.5 works like a dream with no problems I just tried the new demo and everytime I use the lasso selection tool painter just closes on me. Wonder if this has happened to anyone else?

I have sent a report to corel and apple.


Can't confirm that one on the PC side. One good thing about the new Painter is that they do have what appears to be a decent crash bug reporting system, and that gives me hope that the crash bugs while numerous currently will most likely be very short lived.

Mu
02-08-2007, 09:48 AM
I like to keep most of my kit up to date and in general I like to support the development of the tools that I use, in this case it seems all too rashly.

Okay. Analogy time...:D (and I know that analogies have their inherent weaknesses, but what the hell...:scream: )

I love guitars.
I own several kinds by different brands.

Unfortunately, money is an issue, so some of my guitars are not total masterpieces for 9000€ apiece, but rather good bargains.
With some of them I get technical issues influencing the sound in an unwanted way from time to time.
I go to the dealer, we talk about it, I have a two year warrant on the product, so we work on it. That's nice. I get help. Sound repair. Service. Happy customer.

He also still sells guitars which I occasionally check out and the brand I use also has its successors models which I checked and they inherited similar weaknesses, but cost a bit less than what I paid for at the time.
That's too bad.
I know I won't spend money on those, so what. I keep playing my old guitars and keep an eye on the brand's future catalogues (that's the shrug-and-look-the-other-way part)


Lets just say that I feel I have a right and I'm talking about support but getting marketing.

Yea, that's the part that I don't really get.
If you have technical issues with your Painter copy which could not be solved by the Painter team what does that have to do with a new Painter version that you don't like? Maybe it also has to do with what you said about "I like to support development of tools that I use", maybe you have the feeling that your support was kind of ignored and they chose to develop their own kind of thing.

Well, that's too bad. It's their choice.

I remember the guitar brand I bought sold a few models with all kinds of fancy engravements when I was looking for totally different enhancements. It's their freakin product and it did not sound sexy to me.
So, I just wait and see what their future models look like or look for a different brand altogether.

But I don't actually go and complain to them how they mess up their product line and how their team of guitar builders did not incorporate any of the suggestions I made and how I think I am not getting the support they owe me.

Wow, when I sum it up like this it sounds really funny...:D

Per-Anders
02-08-2007, 09:53 AM
Ok allow me to be explicit as it seems clearly my last post was too obscure: I bought Painter X, I own it, I purchased it, a license of Painter X I have, it is something that is in my posession...

I am talking and asking for technical support, but in return what I am getting is marketing. I am complaining about issue I have with a version that I own, not with a version that I do not own yet. I feel I am entitled to complain about the marketing of this version when it does not live up to what has been advertised.

Mu
02-08-2007, 10:01 AM
Ok allow me to be explicit as it seems clearly my last post was too obscure: I bought Painter X, I own it, I purchased it, a license of Painter X I have, it is something that is in my posession



LOL

okay...:D

allow me to revoke anything I said about you confusing things...:scream: Strike anything I said.

Pray continue...:D

BillyBrusher
02-08-2007, 10:06 AM
Just to update you guys, it only crashes when I'm using any of the selection tools if I am in full screen mode ie Cmd M on the mac

Per-Anders
02-08-2007, 10:14 AM
I'll try to put this in an analogy so you can understand. Whether you buy or do not buy a guitar it doesn't really matter, because unless it's a real stinker other people are going to, be it because it's their first guitar and they don't know any better or maybe because they're just idiosyncratic themselves. Now here's the thing, unless someone tells your friendly luthier that his brilliant idea this year was a dud, there's a good chance he'll never know, and he'll never change this feature until he's told.

The thing is your analogy breaks down because like it or not buggy and badly designed software does not get fixed in older versions. A luthier may go so far as to rebuild your guitar for you from the ground up regardless of age or revision, that is not ever going to happen with software, the ugrade to version 10 is the bugfix for version 9.5, there will be no 9.5x version, what's more the longer you leave between upgrades the more it will cost you.

So, if you've got any version at all, the only way to have any bug of poorly designed feature fixed is to upgrade to the latest version, and if that version introduces more bugs and bad design features then you hope to get support and that the company will listen to it's customers and release a fix for those problems. If they don't then over time it becomes necesary to start finding and using alternatives because once again unlike guitars computer equipment and software doesn't get better with age (come to that guitars generally don't get better with age either, but a lot of old folk like to think they do), sooner or later you will have to upgrade.

Per-Anders
02-08-2007, 10:15 AM
Just to update you guys, it only crashes when I'm using any of the selection tools if I am in full screen mode ie Cmd M on the mac

Can't confirm here I'm afraid, might be a mac only thing.

Mu
02-08-2007, 10:31 AM
I'll try to put this in an analogy so you can understand. Whether you buy or do not buy a guitar it doesn't really matter, because unless it's a real stinker other people are going to, be it because it's their first guitar and they don't know any better or maybe because they're just idiosyncratic themselves. Now here's the thing, unless someone tells your friendly luthier that his brilliant idea this year was a dud, there's a good chance he'll never know, and he'll never change this feature until he's told.

The thing is your analogy breaks down because like it or not buggy and badly designed software does not get fixed in older versions. A luthier may go so far as to rebuild your guitar for you from the ground up regardless of age or revision, that is not ever going to happen with software, the ugrade to version 10 is the bugfix for version 9.5, there will be no 9.5x version, what's more the longer you leave between upgrades the more it will cost you.




thanks for takin the trouble to explain in detail, but I did indeed previously not get the fact that you are a customer of the product we are talking about so that in itself made the analogy not fit your case (I publically repented in my last post...:D Don't have me repeat my contrition...:D )


[...]if that version introduces more bugs and bad design features then you hope to get support and that the company will listen to it's customers and release a fix for those problems. If they don't then over time it becomes necesary to start finding and using alternatives because once again unlike guitars computer equipment and software doesn't get better with age [/

totally agreed upon the support thing for a product you already have.

I am not too sure about the thing that you want version X to fix version IX.
I tested many painting applications, some free, some commercial and I concluded that Painter IX was the one I wanted. And as I had that thoroughly tested, too (within my 30 days span) I naturally stumbled upon things I was missing there, too. And I read a lot about people losing files with unstable versions.

But I made my decision and I was putting my money on the table, without secretly hoping that support would change the product I was about to buy to something it wasn't.

Maybe I just hadn't as many stability problems as other people (seems I am just plain lucky), so I am not too excited over the whole bugfix thing.

But as I said in my last post: Pray continue! I did get your posts wrong. And like I said about my experience with the Painter team I am actually pretty confident that your concerns will be heeded.

All the best.
Mu

Per-Anders
02-08-2007, 10:36 AM
Well, for one thing I was hoping for fixes with the occasional crashing on save to RIFF format. It seems they've fixed this, it now crashes well before you save.

rattsang
02-08-2007, 10:42 AM
Well, for one thing I was hoping for fixes with the occasional crashing on save to RIFF format. It seems they've fixed this, it now crashes well before you save.

lol- i like the way you worded that. is there any way we can make suggestions directly to corel for progam improvment? (besides the send error)

brenly
02-08-2007, 11:04 AM
I suspect those of us who use the product professionally are totally let down with the upgrade while those who like to mess about and turn their baby snaps into Mona Lisas are quite happy...
Maybe thats where Corel have got it right .. there are less professionals using it. So they are aiming at the casual user who just wants to impress their friends. Ive actually noticed alot of people moving over to Photoshop to do illustration work. Probably for this reason.

I noticed John has started a thread on Painter tips .. God save us if he puts one up for turn your happy snap into a painting plug in..

ZeroPhobia
02-08-2007, 12:04 PM
If Painter 8 does what you need, then by all means keep using it.

However, I hope you are not passing judgment solely based on what you read online. As you probably know, you can try Painter X free of charge, for 30 days, by downloading it from the Corel website.

Since you skipped Painter IX, I think you're in for a pleasant surprise.

Hello Philippec! I own the trial version since yesterday morning, I've tested it for about 6 hours, a lot of new things to me in this version but nothing special to make me move form 8.This is just me, for others it may be a good tool. I have to admit that i really liked the new enhanced brush ghost which shows in real time the pen angle and the new real bristle brushes, this is a step forward but without the 6D art pen they are really hard to get used to as mentioned before in this thread.

Anyway, i'll continue testing it.


*i don't want painter to mimic photoshop, the philosophy of painter is much deferent and this is obvious, but i want painter to be stable!! and reliable as photoshop.

Have a nice and bright day, all of you artists!! :)

marlouin
02-08-2007, 12:31 PM
Just to update you guys, it only crashes when I'm using any of the selection tools if I am in full screen mode ie Cmd M on the mac

I can't reproduce it (fullscreen mode with all selection tools). I am on mac pro too.

Philippec
02-08-2007, 07:09 PM
Now, I dare you to tell me that this function is usable without a 6D art pen, if you can claim that with a straight face, then chances are you've not tried it for any length of time.

It absolutely is usable without a 6D pen. You just don't get the nib rotation that you can get with that pen.

The big advantage of that rotation is that it changes continuously. You can't do that with a slider in the UI.

A unique idea would have been to implement the tool inline with the existing work flow paradigms within the application thus leaving it open to users of both the 6D pen and users of existing tablets and tools to tailer to their own choice and even create more interesting brush concepts with.

It may be an oversight on Corel's part to not have hooked up the "Angle" slider to the RealBristle rotation, or it could simply be that this hookup was deemed unnecessary, because it does not change in real-time.

If you would like such a hook-up (which I think would only be useful with a flat brush), then email your suggestion to rick.champagne@corel.com.

But if you do get a 6D Art pen (as a lot of people have done when Painter IX came out with 6D support), you will find that there is more than RealBristle to this technology. Calligraphy pens are awesome with this pen.

Knilblink
02-08-2007, 07:37 PM
I'm a big fan of Corel Painter software, but I must agree this update seems kind of lackluster.

The 6D pen only works with the Intuos 3 and one of the Cintiq models, huh? I'm kind of bumming with my Intuos 2, which I never thought would happen until the day of its death. The Real Bristle brushes are pretty nifty, but I think they could have been integrated a bit better with the old pen, especially the flat brushes.

The new brush ghosting is really nice. It's also good to hear the efficiency and speed of the program has been increased, but then again I never really had issues with the last couple versions and by no means do I have a super-computer. I'll fiddle around with the trial a bit, but I have a feeling I'll either wait for a great sale or the next version.

Taltos
02-08-2007, 08:58 PM
It's faster.
is it indeed? is have noticed that the system requirements have been raised, which for me (sw design layman) would indicate otherwise...

PerryDS
02-08-2007, 09:26 PM
I was thinking Yay...maybe I'll buy it. I downloaded the online trial version onto my MacBook Pro. Ran it on my Cintiq ... at 600 dpi, the brushes we're excrutiatingly slow. Then it crashed..Then it said somehow the application was damaged and then it wouldn't run saying the 30 day trial period was over. I think I had about 10 min. Obviously, I'm not impressed.

Philippec
02-09-2007, 01:27 AM
is it indeed? is have noticed that the system requirements have been raised, which for me (sw design layman) would indicate otherwise...

Overall? Yes. Of course, it is much faster on Intel Macs by virtue of being native instead of emulated (>300%). On PowerPC, about the same (couple of percent faster). On Windows, it was also faster (I don't have the exact numbers with me).

This is an average of all the brushes in our speed test, which is similar to the brush set of Painter IX so it has Artists' Oils, Watercolor, etc.

tayete
02-09-2007, 12:10 PM
Ok allow me to be explicit as it seems clearly my last post was too obscure: I bought Painter X, I own it, I purchased it, a license of Painter X I have, it is something that is in my posession...

My treeeeeeaaaassssssure

Sorry Per, I couldn't help it. No offense intended...

mdwsr
02-09-2007, 04:26 PM
Great to see that Painter is still alive. I downloaded the trial last night. Looks good, but $229 for an upgrade? I really want to support this app, but not sure I can squeeze out that much for an upgrade. Maybe this could be a discounted upgrade for those of us who have suffered through XI, then XI.1, .11, etc., then XI.5.....

pixlart, would it be possible for you to pick a function and post a tutorial here like you have done in the past? Those have been excellent and might be a good way to get our feet wet.

brenly
02-09-2007, 04:49 PM
Overall? Yes. Of course, it is much faster on Intel Macs by virtue of being native instead of emulated (>300%). On PowerPC, about the same (couple of percent faster). On Windows, it was also faster (I don't have the exact numbers with me).

This is an average of all the brushes in our speed test, which is similar to the brush set of Painter IX so it has Artists' Oils, Watercolor, etc.

people do the test! Id like to know what other people think.I tried my favourite brushes and they all worked exactly the same from what I saw ...
Windows XP professional Intel P4

Per-Anders
02-09-2007, 10:09 PM
My treeeeeeaaaassssssure

Sorry Per, I couldn't help it. No offense intended...

I was thinking more about parrots to be honest.

With regards brush speeds, I think that the only speedups would be for UB folks, not for general users, which is reasonable as it's no longer running in effectively a form of emulation for them. After using the app for a longer period in fact while there appears to be a very very slight speed hike for certain brushes, in other areas it seems much slower. For instance for some reason I accidentally opened the brush creator and that seemed interminably slow even with the simplest of brushes. I've not checked 9.5's brush creator against it yet, but I seem to recall it ran at least the same speed as a standard canvas and didn't take 5 minutes to just draw some variations.

Lunatique
02-10-2007, 05:47 AM
I sort of wonder if the new features and improvement are really that high on Corel's "To Do List" in terms of customer feedback noise. As much as I love Painter and am excited that a new version has finally arrived (and also contain some of my work right on the opening page!), X does feel a little bit like a .5 upgrade instead of a full-blown version. But this is only my initial impression after playing with it for a very short amount of time. Maybe there are a lot of optimizations and improvements I haven't come across yet.

Tim3308
02-10-2007, 06:24 AM
...pref


2.5 Ghz 5, 6 GB of RAM (OS 10.4.8) and I can make Painter X bog down (color marks lag behind stylus, considerably) in literally minutes w/ the Enhance Brush Ghost feature checked in prefs. Intuos 3 tablets, no 6D pen (two plugged in, 9X12, and 4X5). Kind of stunning for a new feature. As soon as I turn that pref off, Painter goes back to performing like 9.5.

Anybody else?

T

zhuzhu
02-10-2007, 07:27 AM
it's great to see Painter has a new version. i have try the new RealBristle Brush.here it is:

but i think it was samething like Acrylics, do you? and, when we can get a MORE SMOOTHING AIRBRUSH ?


http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8789/876detailshl7.jpg

Hecartha
02-10-2007, 10:43 AM
hey zhuzhu, why are you here!!! Do not waste your time here, please, continue posting to your fantastic sketchbook!! :D

About RealBristle it is close from these dab types: camel hair and bristle spray (i will not talk about acrylic since what painter team named acrylic can be captured dab type or anything else. It is close but not exactly the same. It is difficult to explain but i think you know what i am meaning.
Hum, in fact the RealBristle is not really a brush, it is like an effect you can add to old dab type like camel hair and bristle spray (and more). In the same time painter team added two new dab types with a new blend parameter.....damn, all these parameters must cost a lot in test, i think Corel should simplify now a bit their brush engine. If i take the case of a blend camel hair i can control it with all of these parameters:
-Opacity
-Grain (!!why, i changed it and nothing change when i am painting)
-Dab profile (yeah, i can use now the profiles which was reserved to artist's oil, great!)
-Size
-Min Size
-Feature
-Resaturation
-Bleed (something strange here, the bleed parameter is accessible in the tool bar but it is in gray in the well pannel)
-random (that is nice to give some random movement to each hair of your brush using the tilt or anything else:)

oooh my god, i have access now to all artist's oil parameters!!! greaat, i am continuing the list

-Paint amount
-Paint viscosity
-Paint blend
-Brush bristling
-Brush clumpiness
-Brush Trail-off
-Canvas wetness
-Dirty mode!! (wow)
-Color variability (a color variability given on each hair of the brush is great!)

Hey, it was not finished, here the new RealBristle panel

-RealBristle activation box
-brush tip profile (again)
-Brush roundness
-Brush bristle length
-Brush profile length
-Brush bristle rigidity
-Brush fanning
-Surface friction
-Surface height
ooooooh my god!!! It is finished, and all of these for only one dab type!!!

Ok, these parameters can be used using the randomizer or the transposer, so we don't need to care about them...BUT, i think we don't need too many settings to control one brush, how many of them change really something? Complicated, really complicated, and it must cost a huge amount of cash testing them for a bug....
Another point, why can i still see unusable panel? I think the brush controls panel is enough big to keep all of these grey panel.

zhuzhu
02-10-2007, 02:10 PM
hey zhuzhu, why are you here!!! Do not waste your time here, please, continue posting to your fantastic sketchbook!! :D

i think Corel should simplify now a bit their brush engine.


haha, i'm drawing, just seen this thread, so got reply here.

i agree with you , Painter's Brushes should be simplify. too many close and same brushes there. for exsample, the Chalks,Pastels,Conte... are the samething, i think the old version put them in DRY MEDIA is right. and Acrylics,Oils... BRISTLE BRUSHES just fine. i think no one will used all Painter's brushes one time and one work. some time, we just need a fast,smooth and simple brush to work. bristle brush is cool, but if you work on a large file, it will getting really slow.

Her0d
02-11-2007, 09:33 AM
I just downloaded the trial version and I'm quite dissapointed too - I was hoping that one of the best Painter tools, the pallette knives, will be at last usable with tablet without rotation support (in my case: Wacom Graphire) :/. No luck with this one.
I have no 6D Art Pen, i do not use the "create The Masterpiece from a photo in few easy steps an amaze your family" techniques, and this version doesn't seem much faster than previous.
But it has brand new and shiny ctrl-z bug :)

Philippec
02-11-2007, 02:43 PM
I was hoping that one of the best Painter tools, the pallette knives, will be at last usable with tablet without rotation support (in my case: Wacom Graphire) :/. No luck with this one.

The Graphire is a fine starter tablet, but it has only bearing and pressure (512 levels, as compared to 1024 for the Intuos). The Intuos has tilt, and (if you have the 6D art pen) rotation.

Since your hardware does not give this information, how can you expect Painter to use it?

You can at least use the Mouse palette to set these parameters once.

Her0d
02-11-2007, 03:04 PM
The Graphire is a fine starter tablet, but it has only bearing and pressure (512 levels, as compared to 1024 for the Intuos). The Intuos has tilt, and (if you have the 6D art pen) rotation.

Since your hardware does not give this information, how can you expect Painter to use it?

Well, Painter does quite a good job calculating the direction my wacom nib is going with the tools like Gradient Brushes or Rakes. So I was just hoping for 'soft direction' option when using palette knife, so it would work like, for example, similar tool in Artrage. Maybe next time :)

Drevious
02-13-2007, 01:26 AM
Just one question about it all: Why wasn't it released by Corel on April the 1st?

toastyovens
02-13-2007, 02:34 AM
Why is some of main features are for the 'drawing challenged' like John said it? Isn't this program used by the pros and their recommendations and requirements should be emphasized instead of making gimmicky features to lure in drawing novices? Aren't those who have been using this software for years should be given priority? The real artists? And what's that he said about learning and aquiring a style by being a pretentious hack? That's bull. If they don't know how to draw. LEARN. Jesus! Don't make Painter as a crutch to these new aspiring artists and most of all don't make Painter the equivalent of Poser of the 2d programs.

And the fake Paint can is the most gimickiest, the most vomit and barf inducing marketing hype I'ver ever seen for a software. It's a sheer mockery of an artist's intelligence.

I don't care if it was packaged in a freaking paper bag,(they can keep the paint can) I would upgrade it in a heartbeat at retail price as long as it has practical features instead of these useless gimmicky features. As I see it, the 'new' features in 'X' (wow X sounds cool!) all have a workaround for me in Painter IX.5. And I would take that butt ugly 9 fingered icon of Painter 9 instead of the 'X' icon anyday if it had the useful user requested features too. It seems as if the features were suggested by the marketing dept. We all know the artworks in X's flashy splash screen don't use these new features to make them, so why bother upgrade?

Thus I don't think 299.00 USD is a worthy upgrade.

And 499.00 USD for a freaking paint can? Jesus Christ!!

And the realbristle can ONLY be used with a 6D pen? (By the way John, your first statement sounded as if you can use a normal pen with realbrsitle, but the fact is you cannot) Wait, I have to pay $299 for these gimicky features and I have to shell out, wait, 70.00 USD so this ONE feature can be useable?! Wait a sec while I pull 70.00 USD out of my buci.

That's ridiculous!!

Per-Anders
02-13-2007, 03:03 AM
On the paint can, painter in fact used to come in a paint can, i know for sure that version 3 came like this.

zerae
02-13-2007, 03:59 AM
Same for Painter 6, I liked the can but I don't like Corel's design (black color and green), the one Metacreations made for Painter 6 (orange/yellow) was quite good, I always liked it same for the splash page and icon. Orange is a color that stimulates creativity so it was a good choice on their part.

brenly
02-13-2007, 05:58 AM
I don't care if it was packaged in a freaking paper bag,(they can keep the paint can) I would upgrade it in a heartbeat at retail price as long as it has practical features instead of these useless gimmicky features.
And 499.00 USD for a freaking paint can? Jesus Christ!!
That's ridiculous!!

lol .... agree!

Einar
02-13-2007, 07:11 AM
I really hate to be a naysayer here, because I love Painter to death...

But after using the demo of Painter X for a few days on my dual 2.3 GHz G5 with 8 GB RAM, I had a sneaking suspicion about Painter X's speed. So I ran some simple (and I admit unscientific) tests using the same canvas size and the exact same brushes at the same size (gouache, watercolors, oils, etc.)---

Painter X is CONSIDERABLY SLOWER on my system. Especially the watercolors perform FAR better in IX.5.

It is also claimed that opening files can be as much as two times faster in X, but the tests I did show that IX.5 is several times faster on that, too. Again, these are just my own simple tests, but that's what I have to base things on when I decide whether it's worth it to upgrade or not.

It's easy to slap the thing about increased speed on all the promos (35% faster??), but I find that it's rarely true.

There ARE som fine new features (like the composition tools, and I really like that the cursor shows the stylus' tilt, but I'm inclined to agree with Lunatique; This is Painter 9.6 (or whatever)-- not Painter X. And over $200 is very expensive for an upgrade!

Philippec
02-13-2007, 01:53 PM
Same for Painter 6, I liked the can but I don't like Corel's design (black color and green), the one Metacreations made for Painter 6 (orange/yellow) was quite good [...]

Just a thought here, but black has been the color of pro stuff for a while. Look at cameras: the consumer versions are silver, the pro versions are black.

Philippec
02-13-2007, 02:12 PM
Why is some of main features are for the 'drawing challenged' like John said it? Isn't this program used by the pros and their recommendations and requirements should be emphasized instead of making gimmicky features to lure in drawing novices? Aren't those who have been using this software for years should be given priority?

I guess that Corel is trying to expand Painter's markets. Whether that will be successful or not remains to be seen (I believe it will).

I also don't think that prior users are left out in the cold. RealBristle and Workspace Manager are two big features that are squarely aimed at users who know Painter.

For instance, it was always possible to share contents, but it was somewhat difficult. With the Workspace Manager, you can send one file (put it on your website, for instance) and voila! People can use your brushes, your custom palettes, your papers, etc...

And the fake Paint can is the most gimickiest, the most vomit and barf inducing marketing hype I'ver ever seen for a software. It's a sheer mockery of an artist's intelligence.

Painter used to come in a real paint can. Many people lamented that loss when Painter 7 came out (oooh, Corel messed it up, it's in a BOX!). But cans are a store nightmare: they take way to much shelf space compared to boxes.

So the can is back as a special edition. I'm sure it will sell out.

Thus I don't think 299.00 USD is a worthy upgrade.

OK, so it's not worth it to you. But it is worth it to other people, obviously.

And the realbristle can ONLY be used with a 6D pen? (By the way John, your first statement sounded as if you can use a normal pen with realbrsitle, but the fact is you cannot) Wait, I have to pay $299 for these gimicky features and I have to shell out, wait, 70.00 USD so this ONE feature can be useable?!

I understand that RealBristle doesn't work as well for flat brushes when you don't have the 6D pen, but for round brushes it's fine.

And if you do get a 6D pen, you will find that you can get better expressiveness in a lot of other brushes.

JimGoshorn
02-13-2007, 06:45 PM
In regards to simplifying the brushes, can someone answer what might be a naive question - Why is it we have to redefine a brush for each media? Why couldn't Corel set it up so we define a brush once and it's characteristics remain the same? Then we would define the characteristics of the media we are "dipping" it into. Please forgive me if I am missing something but that seems to be a more "natural" way of handling things.

Jim

CybrGfx
02-13-2007, 07:29 PM
I guess that Corel is trying to expand Painter's markets. Whether that will be successful or not remains to be seen (I believe it will). I believe that all electronic devices also possess individual "personalities" when powered up. That doesn't mean it's true...I also don't think that prior users are left out in the cold. RealBristle and Workspace Manager are two big features that are squarely aimed at users who know Painter. Not particularly. RealBristle is aimed at traditional artist types, who complain that digital doesn't look "real" enough.For instance, it was always possible to share contents, but it was somewhat difficult. With the Workspace Manager, you can send one file (put it on your website, for instance) and voila! People can use your brushes, your custom palettes, your papers, etc...Still debateable how much that will benefit "professionals."
Of FAR more importance than "shareablilty of papers and settings," are things like a crop tool that functions correctly, not leaving all the meta data that extends past the crop boundaries. A brush size slider that can be left open. A SIMPLE "default Document Size" drop down for some "basic" sizes, like A4, 8.5"x11", 5"x7"...But NO, Corel makes it so you have to manually dicker with boxes, and sliders, and extra steps that add NOTHING to productivity, except more time taken up. "Professionals" are NOT Corel's target audience.Painter used to come in a real paint can. Many people lamented that loss when Painter 7 came out (oooh, Corel messed it up, it's in a BOX!). But cans are a store nightmare: they take way to much shelf space compared to boxes.

So the can is back as a special edition. I'm sure it will sell out.Probably. If only to resell on e-bay for twice that...OK, so it's not worth it to you. But it is worth it to other people, obviously.THAT remains to be seen. Your prognostications are not set in stone just because you buy into all the Marketing hype from John and Corel.

The RealBristle "bait and switch" is a REAL disappointment. Corel isn't even up front enough to add a disclaimer in microscopic print informing you of the necessity of a 6D pen to use the function. But, Corel has seldom to never been real bright on clear communications with its customers and users. They don't even communicate withing their own company all that well, as the TOTAL destruction of previous Painter information from their website is proof. No tutorials, NO tips, not even for the OLDER versions of Painter. Once again, their webmasters threw the entire site into the trash bin, just to hype the latest, greatest, upgrade.

I'm on the 30 day trial, with the upgrade on hold until I find just how buggy it is. The greedy upgrade price is about $60 too high, when I can upgrade Photoshop for $169 or thereabouts.
I understand that RealBristle doesn't work as well for flat brushes when you don't have the 6D pen, but for round brushes it's fine.

And if you do get a 6D pen, you will find that you can get better expressiveness in a lot of other brushes.Well, gee. Considering that would involve an upgrade from a 9x12 Intuos 2, when you're talking a few hundred dollars investment for the new tablet AND the 6d pen, I would CERTAINLY expect it to be "more expressive," even without the RealBristle function...

The Divine proportion grid is great. Ditto the color mixer, and the underpainting. But the interface is still klugy as all get out, with Corel unable to incorporate some of the SIMPLEST requests, like a flat B&W color default...

With free applications like Artrage out there, and Photoshop getting ever more powerful with it's brush engine, Corel better start listening to it's established user base, and FINALLY address some of the stupid glitches in its flagship painting application, or it will see more and more users declining to pay for those upgrades...Artrage is becoming the application of choice to complement Photoshop, and upgrade cost-contingent features like RealBristle certainly aren't going to get it enough new users to keep it afloat.

Just my $.02 worth.

Once again, a lot of fanfare, with not a whole lot of substance.

Mu
02-13-2007, 07:35 PM
Why couldn't Corel set it up so we define a brush once and it's characteristics remain the same? Then we would define the characteristics of the media we are "dipping" it into.

if you take any variant with certain characteristics and then fire up the brushdesigner (just coz it's so handy) with ctrl-b and take a look at the "general" tab on the left side and then check the "dab type" (direct translation from the german version, I hope it makes sense for your version), you already have exactly what you are asking for, don't you?

That way you can change an oil brush into a watercolor brush, e.g.

JimGoshorn
02-14-2007, 05:24 PM
Murat,

Thanks for the insight into the Brush Creator. With so many options I tended to intermix the settings for the brushes and media at the same time which confused my understanding even more! Wish the user interface was setup in a way that would make this clearer to newer users.

Jim

pixlart
02-14-2007, 08:05 PM
When Fractal Design introduced Painter 4, it included brushes that utilized the tilt and bearing input from the then-new Wacom Intuos 2 tablet/stylus. Users could not take advantage of this new expressive functionality until they eventually upgraded to the Intuos 2.

All of Painter 4's brushes continued to work and behave as before. The newly-designed tilt-and-bearing-aware brushes were usable, but lacked some of the enhanced expressive qualities made possible with the Intuos 2.

When I was a part of the Painter authoring team, we made it an imperative to advance the expressive quality of the brushes to the fullest extent we were able to muster. Technology like the Intuos 2 provided us that opportunity and we seized upon it. While it would take awhile for all users to have the tilt and bearing capability, we felt it was worth it to advance the state of the art in expressive digital media.

Corel has taken a similar—if not exact—step by introducing barrel rotation-capable brushes in Painter X. As with Painter 4, not everyone currently has the new 6D stylus or Intuos 3 tablet. Like Painter 4, all of the existing brushes continue to function as before. Even the barrel-rotation-aware RealBristle brushes work without the latest hardware—albeit without the enhanced expressive character that is possible with a 6D/Intuos 3.

Corel can't ensure that every user will be able to take advantage of the barrel-rotation capability. It is forward-looking engineering to include it and make it available to users that want this specific expressive quality in their brush strokes. It's there if you want to take advantage of it. Painter X's brushes work without the 6D pen—only the axis of barrel rotation is absent in some brushes. I'm glad to see that Corel feels the same way about advancing the state of the art in expressive digital media as we did way back when.

If you haven't been longing for barrel rotation—or didn't knew about before now—then Painter X will behave and offer the same level of expressive media as it has in the past. On the other hand, if Painter X has made you aware of the attribute of barrel rotation, then you may want to invest in a 6D pen.

Some professionals will find a definite expressive enhancement via barrel rotation; others may not—it really depends on your drawing style and the type of media you use.

Viva la Barrel Rotation!

JimGoshorn
02-14-2007, 08:33 PM
Would it be possible for someone to post an example of brush strokes using barrel rotation with the 6D pen and the same strokes using the regular grip pen?

Thanks!

Jim

Tim3308
02-14-2007, 11:05 PM
John,

I appreciate your comments about the 6D pen (and your presence here). Still not quite sure if it's for me or not? I have 2 Intuos 3 tablets so I ams set there. I tend to paint w/ a short stroke (usually a flat oil brush), so I'm not sure how "expressive" my strokes are in the first place. You probably can't give me a definitive answer either, still I'd be interested to hear your opinion on how the 6D brush would relate to my "style". Please take a look here:

http://timjessell.com

Also another concern --in another thread I posted about the extra enhanced brush ghosting pref (showing the tilt --but then again I KNOW how much I'm tilting the brush, anyway? No?) really slowinbg down my brushes in the new Painter. First I thought Painter X was total bust for me until I turned it off (6GB of Ram, 2.5 Ghz G5)?? Or is it because I don't have the 6D brush?

Thanks, T

ThePatches
02-15-2007, 12:48 AM
Hmm I'm running a dual quicksilver mac with a graphire tablet. I only use a nice big intuos at work...so no Painter X for me. I'll be sticking with 9 because of that mainly.

The only two features I see as being neat are where you can generate a pallate from an existing image and the divine proportions thing. These things are cool, however I don't see myself using them often enough to warrent that much money for an upgrade.

I know some photographers who would find the new things awesome, but as a digital illustrator...I say "meh". If I wanted photo-y things, I'd just crack open photoshop.

I'm DLing the trial anyway to see what I can get from it. ;)

pixlart
02-15-2007, 01:34 AM
I appreciate your comments about the 6D pen (and your presence here). Still not quite sure if it's for me or not? I have 2 Intuos 3 tablets so I ams set there. I tend to paint w/ a short stroke (usually a flat oil brush), so I'm not sure how "expressive" my strokes are in the first place. You probably can't give me a definitive answer either, still I'd be interested to hear your opinion on how the 6D brush would relate to my "style". Please take a look here:

Also another concern --in another thread I posted about the extra enhanced brush ghosting pref (showing the tilt --but then again I KNOW how much I'm tilting the brush, anyway? No?) really slowinbg down my brushes in the new Painter. First I thought Painter X was total bust for me until I turned it off (6GB of Ram, 2.5 Ghz G5)?? Or is it because I don't have the 6D brush?

Hi Tim:

I'm very aware of your excellent body of work! Great Stuff!

It's hard to quantify the 6D Pen's additional expressive quality. A lot of it has more to do with feel. One way I think it can be demonstrated to someone without the 6D pen is to have you go to the Pencils Category (you can try this in Painter IX) and compare drawing with the Sketching Pencil 5 variant for a bit.

Switch to the Flattened Pencil variant and draw with it. Unlike the Sketching Pencil, the Flattened Pencil utilizes Tilt and Bearing. If you play around with changing the positioning of this variant as you sketch, you'll quickly see that it has a wider expressive range.

The RealBristle brushes feel similar in that more of your hand's gestural motion influences the character of the stroke. It's not like you need to actually think about it—it just has more expressive range. The best advice I can give is to try out a 6D pen if you can get access to one (which I realize isn't always possible).

Regarding the Enhanced Brush Ghosting—yes, it does use more processor bandwidth. I noticed the same slowdown on my system and turned it off. As you said, you already know how much you're tilting. It does provide a nice visual feedback, but if it slows Painter X down on your system, turn it off! BTW, it slows down with either the normal or 6D pen.

-john

Per-Anders
02-15-2007, 02:51 AM
John, while I like what you do, and think you're tremendous for the community I have to take issue with some of the things you've stated.

While Painter 4 added supported the bearing and tilt it didn't actually make any of the brush technology unusable without, it simply added the option to the menus to make use of that thus extending the application for all users at their leisure (and also adding other features). Comparing a nonstandard pen that does not come with any tablet currently with what was the replacement line of tablets is also somewhat disingenuous, you have to go out of your way to get the 6D, at the time however if you were buying a tablet, then you were likely going to get the intuous2, there just wasn't anything else actually available (the intuous 1 certainly wasn't anymore), and what's more they were spectacularly popular, everyone had one or was upgrading to one for it's new features, yet no-one I know personally has a 6d artpen, as pens come with tablets there's less need for it, as the pens that come with even the latest tablets aren't 6d's then you're unlikely to have it unless you were either gifted it or went to of your way to get it.

On the "realbristles is usable without a 6d artpen" side, I must ask, have you actually tried painting with the realbristle brushes left handed with a non 6D stylus? Or any of the "flat" calligraphic variants in either left or right handed with a non 6D stylus? I have, and I'm sorry but it isn't usable. The bristles twist, the brush angle is uncontrollable (how simple it would have been to test this during beta testing and suggest that the existing angle palette should have been used to expand the realbristles control possibilities to all, if it was suggested, how simple to implement rather than hard code it, and if that's a limitation, then the core needs a serious rewrite in this day and age of modularity)... I'm sorry it really isn't usable, the marketing copy doesn't state any limitations or requirements for this feature (I'm pretty sure that with painter 4 they were pretty clear about the need for an intuous 2 to make use of the tilt options).

Sorry, but that stuff has to be said if we are going to be in any way fair on this.

Apart from that it's a fairly solid update, but not a stellar one that it should have been with a little more forethought and testing. It seems an unhealthy portion of good features have been ignored by marketing in favor of marketing a feature as universal that is not (which result the feeling that Painter X is in fact Crippleware and a bitter taste all around).

Just to add to my post to clarify about twisting brushes with a standard pen and realpristles and left handedness, obseve the following (using the "Real Round" variant, so no not even a flat brush):

http://www.peranders.com/general/painter_twisting01.jpg

Note how the brush when held in a typical left handed position is resulting in twisting at the start of all strokes (in actual fact nearly all would be closer to the mark, but more on that in a minute). But when held in a typical right handed manner results in an acceptable or more standard stroke with no twisting.

Now obviously a horizontal only strokes comparison isn't really a fair test, however trying any other angle results in completely arbitrary results, one moment it apears to be working normally, the next you get something rotated in a completely different angle, or thinner or fatter for no apparent reason, no other brushes suffer this. I'm sure that with a 6D artpen it must be useable, and that if you were using a normal pen for just a few quick test strokes or only ever holding your pen completely perpindicular to the tablet with a round brush type it would be apparently controllable and would seem to work, but that's not useable (for any normal human at least).

Tim3308
02-15-2007, 02:52 AM
...on several counts --about my work, about your "simulation" -- you're right not even close to a regular staid "expression" from a 2B or "sketch" pencil. You just made a sale for Wacom -- and I had never used the flat pencil variant, ever. John, that's one nice pencil. I recently finished 22 interior pencils (B & W) for a publisher and now wish I had used that variant --The whole time I was drawing, I was thinking, "I wish the pencil 'lead' changed shape more often like a real pencil". The pencil variant you tipped me off to, certainly is more in that direction. I'm guilty of not shaking the pencil bushes enough -- I became digital when Painter7 hit. That shouldn't have slipped by me.

And finally thanks for the confirmation of the "molasses" of the enhanced brush ghosting.

T i m

pixlart
02-15-2007, 04:27 PM
Per-Anders wrote:

Note how the brush when held in a typical left handed position is resulting in twisting at the start of all strokes (in actual fact nearly all would be closer to the mark, but more on that in a minute). But when held in a typical right handed manner results in an acceptable or more standard stroke with no twisting.

Now obviously a horizontal only strokes comparison isn't really a fair test, however trying any other angle results in completely arbitrary results, one moment it apears to be working normally, the next you get something rotated in a completely different angle, or thinner or fatter for no apparent reason, no other brushes suffer this. I'm sure that with a 6D artpen it must be useable, and that if you were using a normal pen for just a few quick test strokes or only ever holding your pen completely perpindicular to the tablet with a round brush type it would be apparently controllable and would seem to work, but that's not useable (for any normal human at least).

Well, the plot thickens...I conducted the same test you did above and came up with entirely different resuts:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3668/directiontestrt3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I do not get the artifact you are experiencing. This was done using an Intuos3 tablet with the default supplied pen (no rotation).

With respect to the flat "calligraphic" variants, they work fine minus the additional attribute of the nib orientation changing (which is barrel rotation controlled). You still get a thick-thin stroke with the limitation that the nib angle is fixed:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5426/calligxw1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Created with the Real Flat Opaque RealBristle variant

Per-Anders, is it possible that you have an older Wacom driver?

Let me know—I'd certainly like to see you be able to use RealBristle brushes without the incorrect stroking you are currently experiencing!

-john

Jinbrown
02-15-2007, 05:57 PM
Hi,

Using and Intuos 2 with the standard stylus that came with the tablet, in WinXP Home SP2:

I get the same artifact using the RealBristle Brushes Real Round variant both when painting with my left hand (boy! tha's hard!) and my right hand, but....

Only when the stylus is tilted to the left.

When the stylus is held upright, no artifact, either painting with my left hand or right hand.


.....................

pixlart
02-15-2007, 06:02 PM
Per Anders, Jinny:

Are you on Windows? (Jinny, I know you are).

I'm trying to see if this is Windows-specific.

Also, I'm assuming that you should have the latest version of the Wacom driver.

I'm using OS X Wacom driver 6.0.0-3

If anyone else is able to duplicate Per Ander's test above, please post and give your OS and Wacom driver version.

Thanks!

-john

pixlart
02-15-2007, 07:36 PM
A quick update:

I've been talking to Wacom and they are unable to duplicate the issue on either Windows or Vista. They believe it is related to the driver. If you are experiencing the artifact Per-Anders describes earlier in this thread, Wacom advises that you update or re-install your tablet driver.

-john

Improv
02-15-2007, 08:01 PM
where you can generate a pallate from an existing image...

You can do that already in Painter IX.5:
Go to Colour Sets, then click on the triangle in the upper right, then in the drop down menu, choose ' New Colour Set from Image' Don't forget to save! :-)

Jinbrown
02-15-2007, 09:47 PM
You can do that already in Painter IX.5:
Go to Colour Sets, then click on the triangle in the upper right, then in the drop down menu, choose ' New Colour Set from Image' Don't forget to save! :-)

We can do that (Create New Color Set from Image) in Painter 7 and 7.1, Painter 8 and 8.1, Painter IX, IX 9.1 and IX.5 and in Painter X.

Or,

Create New Empty Color Set
Create New Color Set from Layer
Create New Color Set from Selection

All of those options to create Color Sets in all of the Painter versions listed above.

And, in Painter 8 and 8.1, Painter IX, IX 9.1 and IX.5, and in Painter X:

Create New Color Set from Mixer

..................

Per-Anders
02-15-2007, 10:55 PM
Hi, thanks for testing, yes I'm running on Windows XP currently and testing it using a Cintiq, one of the first things I tried was updating to the latest driver. I have noticed that this kicks in once you reach a certain angle with the pen to the surface, unfortunately it happens at a point a little above where I'm naturally holding it at (i.e. it stops if the pen is held in a more perpendicular stance, but appears once you hold it more parallel to the surface). The effect is also accentuated the further the pen is from the 9 o-clock position. (so the twise becomes a sort of double twist at around the 10 or 8 o'clock positions).

Improv
02-15-2007, 11:48 PM
We can do that (Create New Color Set from Image) in Painter 7 and 7.1, Painter 8 and 8.1, Painter IX, IX 9.1 and IX.5 and in Painter X.

Or,

Create New Empty Color Set
Create New Color Set from Layer
Create New Color Set from Selection

All of those options to create Color Sets in all of the Painter versions listed above.

And, in Painter 8 and 8.1, Painter IX, IX 9.1 and IX.5, and in Painter X:

Create New Color Set from Mixer

..................


You should know, J-you were the one that told me when I asked 8 months ago or so! :-)

Jinbrown
02-15-2007, 11:50 PM
You should know, J-you were the one that told me when I asked 8 months ago or so! :-)

And you remembered! :D

I can't remember who I told what, when.

Per-Anders
02-23-2007, 10:02 PM
Any more news on this? I've now tried this with a 6D artpen and sadly still get the same results if the art pen is rotated in the other direction (barrell held towards the vertical or right). I tried removing the tablet drivers completely and doing a clean install, to no avail.

The following is from just holding the pen at the four directions and jsut doing a straght stroke in either direction using the default flat (also note the huge banding within the stroke).

http://www.peranders.com/general/painterstrokeswrong.png

toastyovens
02-25-2007, 12:00 PM
^^^

I got the same trouble with my new 6d pen too. I was considering upgrade (really) but now this?

brenly
02-25-2007, 12:04 PM
do the complaints ever end ... I hope you guys are doing something wrong ... or its wait for the patch ...

pixlart
02-25-2007, 05:35 PM
Well, all I can say at this point is that not everyone is experiencing this anomaly. Its "random" appearance would seem to indicate that it is not Painter-specific.

I talked to Wacom about this issue and they tested it using Painter X. They used both Windows and Mac setups and were unable to duplicate the problem. The tech did say that it was most likely a driver issue as they've seen similar behavior in situations in which the driver had not been properly updated.

Before installing a new driver, you need to un-install the old one, otherwise components of the old driver may interfere with the new driver and cause erratic behavior. Follow the uninstall directions that come with the tablet driver.


There is a procedure that re-calibrates the tablet you can use to see if it corrects the problem.

Open the Wacom tablet driver.

Click on the About Button.

Hold down the ALT/OPT Key and click on the Diagose Button.

This action causes the Recalibrate... Button to appear in the Diagose panel.

Click on the Recalibrate... Button.

This re-calibrates the tablet.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6759/wacomrecaljs4.jpg (http://www.wacom.com/productsupport/contact.cfm)


Wacom support is free and the tech reps are very knowledgable. I would suggest that anyone experiencing the described anomaly give Wacom a call:

Telephone Support: 1.360.896.9833 (Dial 4)

Support facility hours:

7:30 am to 5 pm (Pacific time) - Monday through Thursday
8:30 am to 5 pm (Pacific time) - Friday

If you call please try to have the following information available: tablet model number and driver version.

I hope this helps folks get to the bottom of this issue.

-john

Per-Anders
02-25-2007, 08:26 PM
Unfortunately it doesn't solve it, however I'll be sure to call up Wacom on Monday and If they tell me that the problem is not with their kit but with Painter then I'll be sure to report back to let people on the forum know. As the problem only occurs with he realbristle brushes, not with any of the other artpen brushes or any tool that makes use of "rotation" "angle" and "bearing" (which all work fine) then I'm still betting that it's a painter problem but we'll see.

In the meanwhile you'd do me a favor by running the following test using the default "RealBristle Brushes : Real Flat" variant through the following test for me to see the results that you get. (actually everyone should do this quick test and post their results).

Draw from the center of a circle outwards a set of strokes in an outward radiating manner with the pen aligned first tip always towards center from a number of directions, then on another circle with the tip sideways to the stroke in a more calligraphic manner, but always rotated and angled in the same way (I have helpfully put in the brush ghosting marks here to show exactly how my pen was oriented during each stroke) do not rotate the canvas, only rotate the pen, so as to get a stroke out of it for all directions.

For me I get the following result (with brush ghosting to show the exact rotation, bearing and angle of each stroke):

Per-Anders
02-25-2007, 08:28 PM
Put this into a second post to not make the text in the last post unreadable...
http://www.peranders.com/general/pbrushnowork01.jpg

Per-Anders
02-25-2007, 09:01 PM
I'd just like to add that this has been noted by several other users on this forum including in this post here : http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=112&t=462581

So it's not a very isolated thing. I'm eagerly awaiting a response though to see that it is in fact a problem with all of our drivers and Wacom kit and not with the program itself, and that the program is capable with the realbristles of producing the right output (which will at least allow us to narrow down the culprit).

And to fully contextualise yes I had uninstalled the previous drivers (even though they were not so old as to require that according to the Wacom site) before installing the newest drivers, I even went so far as to re-uninstall and install the drivers after this didn't work at first. It doesn't seem that I'm alone in these findings either, but hopefully we'll soon see some actual evidence that it does in fact at least work correctly for some people.

Per-Anders
02-26-2007, 11:57 PM
Well I just phoned Wacom and they more or less said it's a bug with Painter (which would be logical given that all other tools work fine in the application using this technology). The line from Wacom is that this is a known issue that's been reported before, they are not willing to commit 100% to saying that it's a fault in Painters code, but the probability was that it was a bug with Painter rather than with Wacom tablets or driver software, and that to resolve it they will have to get together with Corel and see about fixing it (which at least means there's a good chance that it will be fixed rather than the Corel line of it's the fault of the users :/... how well tested was this product and even this bug once it was reported?).

toastyovens
02-27-2007, 12:31 AM
There you have it. A feature not thorougly tested for bugs but released anyway as their main feature, so people can go and buy a Wacom 6D pen and wondered why the hell Corel released this prematurely. Guess I have to wait for "The upcoming Painter patch" to really upgrade - don't know when that will be. By the way fix the brush ghosting problem while you guys are at it.

"No, no - it's the users fault! Really.

No wonder Mark Zimmer said Painter is slacking.

"Corel Painter has rendered my brand-spanking-new 6D pen useless! Which makes the Realbristle feature useless as well. The enhanced brush ghosting is nothing more than a resource-hogging-after-thought feature added by Corel just for giggles! And the brush performance improvements are so infinitesimal, this should really be a patch rather than a full blown upgrade " - This is what I would say if I had written a software review. :D

brenly
02-27-2007, 05:20 AM
this has seriously become entertaining ...

ZeroPhobia
02-27-2007, 10:50 AM
Hm.....lets see
1)Brush Creator = The clear button (located under the brush stroke test area) doesn't work, it looks distorted and transparent. Actually the whole brush creator window looks distorted especially when i move it around and it's almost unusable.
2)Brush Selector Bar = It plays hide and seek. I have to make it appear manually every time i open painter. (window=show brush selector bar)
3) Intuos3 – PainterX = No matter how much i act and pray, Express Key assignments never obey to my fingertips. As for the touch strip which i have assigned the brush size (increase – decrease) it is functional, till i right-click for the brush drop down menu. I have the latest intuos3 drivers. Painter 8 works smoothly with my tablet.

is this a problematic version of painter? :banghead: to many bugs, even for a new version.

pixlart
02-27-2007, 03:18 PM
So it's not a very isolated thing. I'm eagerly awaiting a response though to see that it is in fact a problem with all of our drivers and Wacom kit and not with the program itself, and that the program is capable with the realbristles of producing the right output (which will at least allow us to narrow down the culprit).
Hi Per-Anders:

Count me among the converted. I am able to duplicate your results exactly. My apologies for mis-understanding your earlier posts—I was under the impression your test was done using the standard Grip Pen. Once I looked deeper, I realized that you are describing the 6D Pen. The Grip Pen has its oddities, as well.

I have communicated all of this to Corel (including the relevant threads here), and I suggest that anyone experiencing strange behavior send a non-ranting descriptive report to the Painter engineering team. (painterteam@corel.com) Be sure to include your system details.


No wonder Mark Zimmer said Painter is slacking.
toastyovens:

And just where did you hear this alleged statement? Please back it up with a verifiable source. Otherwise, it is nothing more than a cheap shot with no truth to it.


1)Brush Creator = The clear button (located under the brush stroke test area) doesn't work, it looks distorted and transparent. Actually the whole brush creator window looks distorted especially when i move it around and it's almost unusable.
2)Brush Selector Bar = It plays hide and seek. I have to make it appear manually every time i open painter. (window=show brush selector bar)
3) Intuos3 – PainterX = No matter how much i act and pray, Express Key assignments never obey to my fingertips. As for the touch strip which i have assigned the brush size (increase – decrease) it is functional, till i right-click for the brush drop down menu. I have the latest intuos3 drivers. Painter 8 works smoothly with my tablet.
pankaps:

I'm not experiencing these issues. As I requested above, please send a descriptive report to the Painter engineering team. (painterteam@corel.com) Be sure to include your system details.

Per-Anders and Hecartha: Thanks for all of the input specifically regarding the 6D/RealBristle issue. I'm confident that it will result in a correction.

-john

Per-Anders
02-27-2007, 08:58 PM
Ok thanks for bearing with us and testing it out, at least now there's a good chance it'll get fixed, which is all I want from this (obviously apart from other things such as photoshop style opacity as well as Painters "Flow" opacity). Once again thank-you.

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