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stabbington
02-05-2007, 09:53 PM
hey all!

this'll be my first ever low-poly model so it's probably suicide trying to pull off my first game res work for a competition like this but i've always preferred jumping in at the deep end :D

i'm working on concepts for an 'ancient's shadow scout' - it'll be a nomadic sniper of sorts i suppose : ) i have a backstory and design notes i can type up if anyone's interested...

anyway, i'll be flooding this thread with a ton of dumb or noobular questions i'm sure.. so bear with me!

here's where i'm at with the rough concept...

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2871/concept2pz5.jpg

this is the second pass on the concept, the first had a more eel-like head that hung low over his just but people seemed to be having problems recognising it as his head ; )

crits and comments would be great, as ever!

fly the flags of the ancients!

Equinoxx
02-05-2007, 09:58 PM
backstory and design notes are ALWAYS interesting ... post them up.

concept is looking good. got that ancient feeling going without relying to much on egyption styles so that's a plus.

CgSociety FTW!

Imagus
02-05-2007, 10:00 PM
Best of luck, bonzepeet... and don't worry about the "newbie" aspect. I've created low-poly models before, but I'm diving, trial-by-fire style, into the whole normal mapping/UV mapping thing.

One of the main reasons I joined this (apart from the cool prizes...;)) is to learn as much as possible from the other participants, and to (hopefully) get something good for my game portfolio.

Ganbatte! (Do your best!) :thumbsup:

paul-banister
02-05-2007, 10:10 PM
i really like the concept pic,the head kinda reminds me of the enemies in twilight princess,as in it takes a double look to realise that it is the head but thats a good thing,nice style.

coCoKNIght
02-05-2007, 10:17 PM
nice concept and cool character armor. My suggestions would be to make him look less fragile and his weapon more futuristic. Looking forward to those doodles to come :)

Cyborgguineapig
02-05-2007, 10:50 PM
Cool concept. I agree about the character looking fragile. I think if you add some interesting forms into the arms and legs will help to make the limbs look less stick like as well.

stabbington
02-05-2007, 11:12 PM
Equinoxx - thanks a lot! i'll report back with my notes tomorrow, been hacking away at concepts at the expense of sensible sleep the past two days o_0

cheers again!

Imagus - hehe, thanks for the supportive words! i don't have a hope in hell of of getting a prize out of this but like you i figured it's a great arena to begin learning this strange new world! pretty excited to see what we'll all come up with too, never entered a contest before... anywho, ganbatte to you too ; )

free-willy - cheers! always been a fan of the zelda character designs, maybe it's rubbed off on me more than i realised :D

coCoKNIght - thanks for the crits! i'm going to have a go at designing the gun properly tomorrow, not quite fitting in with the rest of him yet : /

Cyborgguineapig - hokey dokey, i have a habit of going super stubby or super slender on my designs these days think you and coCoKNIght hit the nail on the head. i'll try and come up with something sinewy and sleek whilst trying to avoid too much bulk on him ; ) thanks to both of you!

just found a nice freeware font for the runic inscriptions on the armour, going to try a few quick tests of normal mapping it (my first attempt) tomorrow mornin', then onto refining the gun and armour designs! thanks so much for all the speedy comments so far!

eMysfit
02-06-2007, 12:37 AM
Looks great so far to me. The armor definately gives it the ancient feel. I kinda agree with coco about maybe doing something to make it look a bit more futuristic...but at the same time ancient technology is just as cool as 'future' technology.

I kinda disagree about the fragileness thing. He looks alien to me but not neccessarily fragile. And who's to say that everyone has to be tough, he's a sniper right? He might never have to fight or use his muscles for anything!

Keep up the coolness!


Oh and...don't count yourself out, your 2d skills seem pretty great already which if you havn't already figured out is going to make your low poly skills stand out alot quicker than normal. Textures make a low poly model.

maje3d
02-06-2007, 12:37 AM
I've got to say, you've done an excellent job with capturing the look of being ancient in powerful without having to resort to a stereotypical 'evil' look. Some good stuff.

fx81
02-06-2007, 01:06 AM
i like this concept a lot, however the character looks little too old or may be frail is a better word. i do like the armor designs and the head design.

stabbington
02-06-2007, 06:03 PM
eMysfit - duly noted ; ) i've started reworking the armour to try and make it a bit more futuristic... finding it hard to strike a balance yet though : /

and i'm glad you like the slenderness, it's definitely an aspect of the character i wanted in the design although i'm inclined to agree with the others that a touch more muscle def might be a good plan. thanks for the support so far, you've given me a little more hope that i can pull this off!

maje3d - thanks a lot! glad you like ;)

mashru - cheers mashru! i agree, old is acually part of the backstory behind him. going to try and work on 'de-frailing' him a touch :)

so, here's a little backstory to the design if it helps see where i'm trying to go with him...


"it was a time before the birth of the great civilisations of the ancients, before even the birth of the planets the younger races now cling feebly onto, aeons before their petty squabbles disrupted the natural order of the galaxy. the creatures that grew together to become known as the 'ancients' were as humble and primitive as those younger races now spreading devastation across the ancestral worlds.

tribes of nomads, hunter-gatherers deeply in tune with the natural harmonics of life and the cosmos wandered the known galaxy, honing the arts of the great hunt. when the great coalescence of the tribes occurred and spawned the beginning of the great civilisation of the ancients the greatest of the hunting tribes were elected to carry on their ancestral life, sent far and wide across known space as passive observers of the young life that had been discovered throughout the great hunt.

the survivors of the last tribe of the great hunt are now almost impossibly old. living a solitary existence far from any of their own kind, their bodies have wizened and aged beyond recognition. deeply mystic and with barely any need for physical sustenance their life is one of prayer, mysticism and harmony with the rhythms of life. yet they have also honed the art of tracking and hunting well above the capabilities of their forefathers.

their ancient armour plates carry the glowing runes that describe the holy travels of their lost forefathers, their hunting rifles inscribed with meditative symbols that focuses the will of the wielder. devoid of emotion, their heart barely registers a beat...

it was the last tribe of the great hunt who were charged with the honour of guarding the ancestral planets. it was they who witnessed the destruction wrought upon those holy worlds. it is now they who lead the ancients out of slumber, tracking down the strongholds of the arrogant and weak younger races. it is they who will fire the first shot through the hearts of the enemies.

the great hunt begins again..."


so, the design idea was that of a literally ancient alien being, millennia old and still carrying the ancient war gear of their ancestors. i was thinking of incredibly wizened yet supremely agile mystical creatures, a close approximation would be the most ancient of shaolin monks... just with rifles : )

the runes and little tied on feathers and prayer beads are symbols harking back to their time as tribesmen and hunter-gatherers and hopefully reinforces the idea that they have a mystical harmony with life and the art of the hunt. i also wanted the designs of the armour to look stylised and old, pulling parts of greek/babylonian/persian/egyptian stylistic ideas whilst updating it with technological elements that look both futuristic and mystical...

so, that's my preamble for the design. i've probably omitted a few things without realising but i'll presume it's a bit of a mission to read through already ; )

so, onto the updates...

i'm trying to tighten up where i'm going with the torso armour design and there's a quick doodle to see if muscle def will work for such spindly arms :D

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5075/armurly0.jpg


the font is a test for the glowy inscriptions on the armour, might hand draw them still if i'm feeling masochistic enough at the time... next update should be the weapon design ; )

coCoKNIght
02-06-2007, 06:44 PM
armour looks more futuristic now and arm's working fine now too, we've been asleep for very long, so huge muscles are not to be expectet, right? :scream:
Anyway, I thaught that maybe it'd be cool to have some light shining out of the armore here and there to accompany the runes?

fx81
02-06-2007, 07:10 PM
the brief should not be taken so literally. the race was dormant in the sense that they we severly conservative. they were still very active in their own affairs.

Imagus
02-06-2007, 09:20 PM
the brief should not be taken so literally. the race was dormant in the sense that they we severly conservative. they were still very active in their own affairs.The above is true, bonzepeet, but I like the fact that you took that interpretation and ran with it, coming up with a great, unique concept.

One thing I thought when I looked at the initial design was that the character was skeletal, not flesh-and-bone. I actually thought that the contrast of an ancient skeletal warrior sporting semi-futuristic, runic armor was quite cool and creepy.

Not that I'm suggesting you change your vision... just commenting on what I saw.

What is the name of the font, and where did you find it? :)

Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

Squibbit
02-06-2007, 09:27 PM
nice start :thumbsup:

waiting for more designs



.

stabbington
02-06-2007, 10:52 PM
coCoKNIght - cheers coco! yeah, light will be shining out of the runes and the litle blue areas. it's not next gen without the glowies! :P

mashru - hehe, fair point ; ) don't think anything i wrote suggested that i meant that the rest of the race was literally asleep though. still, i figure the interpretations of the brief to be pretty pliable - they could have been in stasis on vast ark ships or as you say just keeping to themselves, hidden deep out of sight...

Imagus - yeah, that was the iniial plan... i'm now thinking more that they're 'almost' skeletal, lke a reanimated mummy in some ways so that tendons and thin muscles would still be visible. think having some of those definitions in will make for a more interesting look to the different modelled areas. hopefully anyway : )

oh, and the font is a freeware one from blambot (http://www.blambot.com/fonts.shtml) called lovecrafts diary : ) although i actualy got the font from here... clicky (http://www.1001fonts.com/fonts_overview.html?page=8&view=full&filter=All&category_id=21&sort=font_date&preview_text=)

Squibbit - cheers! loving your work so far ; )

so here's an attempt at re-designing the hunters rifle...

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8639/riflejo4.jpg


i really have no idea how to design weapons! :shrug:

going to try some normal mapping tutorials next and do some tests - itching to push some polys around :bounce:

terraarc
02-06-2007, 11:21 PM
Hello man, great concept and backstory too! I'm sure you'll backup greatly your modelling with that kind of story.
Rifle looks good, I would suggest a scope on top since he is a sniper!
Keep it up!

tastatura
02-07-2007, 11:06 AM
hehe nice concept mate :) nice color palet and the gun is wicked

stabbington
02-07-2007, 05:00 PM
terraarc - cheers! i'm in two minds about the scope. i first thought he shouldn't need one due to the helmet being 'linked' to the gun but maybe a scope will make things read better ; )

tastatura - thanks a lot! look forward to seing where your going with your concepts!

okay, pointless update and it's nothing exciting but...

behold my first normal mapped thingummy! (only 6 quads, obv.)

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/4237/woorn8nt8.jpg


i just hope doing a full model will be as painless as a box : P
serious modelling to follow!

and on that note what's the best procedure for all this? i was thinking that the workflow should be like so...

1. make low poly
2. unwrap low poly
3. start high poly detailing by dropping an edit poly above the unwrap with a turbosmooth above. this way i can get the sharp armour edges in.
4. adjust the new edges made in a new unwrap to match leaving the original low poly seams intact
5. drop this mesh into sculpting program and do my thang
6. drop hi-poly back into max and match up low poly
7. do cage, shazzam we have nice normals?
8. clean and add extras in ps with nvidia filter

or am i deluding myself...? i've seen about 6 or so different workflows on various forums being used and can't work out whether this way will work. it's mainly trying to work out how to do the sharp edges on things and then the more organic sculpts....

any help much appreciated, as ever : )

Imagus
02-07-2007, 05:59 PM
serious modelling to follow!

and on that note what's the best procedure for all this? i was thinking that the workflow should be like so...

...
3. start high poly detailing by dropping an edit poly above the unwrap with a turbosmooth above. this way i can get the sharp armour edges in.
4. adjust the new edges made in a new unwrap to match leaving the original low poly seams intact
...First, just to give a frame of reference for the following, I have not tinkered extensively with normal maps.

I did, however, do a bit of research on normal mapping during the lead-up to this competition, and the general practice for the low-poly model seems to be to avoid sharp edges, as they can cause artifacts in the normal mapping. Also, in the hi-res model, avoid completely 90-degree extrusions, as normal maps don't have a depth component.

However, in general, the workflow appears to be...

- Create low-poly model, paying attention to general form and contour
- Create high-poly model in the same position as the low-poly one
- Create and apply normal map

I'm not sure if UV map/unwrap/texture comes before or after these three and, as I do not own 3ds Max, I can't speak to specifics... but I hope this helps. :)

On the scope, I was thinking it would be cool if the rifle plugged into or fit directly over his eye, connected by a cord or wire to the gun... the eye (to me) just screams "input jack"... just a thought.

Keep at it! :)

EDIT: Thingummy = no image...

EDIT Take 2: PIMM's 3ds Max Normal Mapping workflow (http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/normal_workflow.htm) (if you haven't seen it yet)

stabbington
02-07-2007, 07:59 PM
Imagus - wow, thanks for the quick response! i'm pretty sure i'll be going low-poly, unwrap, clone, detail the hi-poly, RTT : )

did a fair bit of research beforehand too, just got a little lost on whether there were any pitfalls when working with things that were both mechanical and organic ; ) thanks for the heads-up on the sharp edges and 90deg extrudes though, didn't know about that!

as for the scope/input jack somewhat ironically (in an alanis morisette way obv.) i drew this concept not a week or so before i found about dominance war...

http://www.peetlee.com/gallery/galsnip.jpg

not sure whether i'm allowed to use parts from old concepts though but i'll see what i can come up with!

cheers for all the help and the link to ben mathis' tutes, they've been invaluable in getting me started thus far!

Imagus
02-07-2007, 08:35 PM
Imagus - wow, thanks for the quick response! i'm pretty sure i'll be going low-poly, unwrap, clone, detail the hi-poly, RTT : )

did a fair bit of research beforehand too, just got a little lost on whether there were any pitfalls when working with things that were both mechanical and organic ; ) thanks for the heads-up on the sharp edges and 90deg extrudes though, didn't know about that!Glad I could help. :)

The solution for the hi-poly extrudes, by the way, is to very slightly scale down the extruded polygon(s) to both maintain the form and allow the normal map creator to detect the side edges.

as for the scope/input jack somewhat ironically (in an alanis morisette way obv.) i drew this concept not a week or so before i found about dominance war...

[IMAGE]

not sure whether i'm allowed to use parts from old concepts though but i'll see what i can come up with!The impression I get is that the "no old concepts, models, etc." rule is to prevent people from using any complete character concepts or models. You can post and ask if you're concerned, but I really don't think that it would violate the rules, as you're not copying an entire character concept, just borrowing an element from one that hasn't even been modeled yet.

cheers for all the help and the link to ben mathis' tutes, they've been invaluable in getting me started thus far!Excellent! Looking forward to seeing your modeling progress! If you get the chance, fix the Thingummy image above... I'm really curious to see it now. :D

terraarc
02-07-2007, 08:43 PM
Cheers back warrior!!
Well I prefer the mental link idea but not so straight forward (aka plug-in), a mental connection with some kind of transparent glowing thingy from the eye to the rifle would look very cool!!
For modelling workflow there is this (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=39&t=359082) great thread where people lay down their aspects.
I would suggest do a low poly version and unwrapping in max (pay attention to triangles here!! only for sculpting and subdivisions of course), then jump straight to sculpting work your way to details and stuff.When done back to Max and try poly-adjusting the volume of the low poly based on the sculpted high poly one (you can further enhance your low poly mesh and uv's now -worry less for tris now). When everything is OKOK press magic button "0" - render to Texture and you're ready!
I'm sure there will be tons of questions until then but tons of sculpting and modelling too...don't worry...when time comes all problems will be solved!:thumbsup:

eirenicon
02-07-2007, 09:51 PM
Hey Peet, I like your concept. Definitely "ancient" by any definition of the word. I think the rifle looks great, it avoids stereotypes while remaining readable.

On the subject of normal maps, what I generally do (and what I'll be doing for this challenge) is create the high poly model first. Once it's done, I create a fresh low poly model that matches the contours. This way I can optimize the polycount and flow and use as many tris as I want. It's not as convenient as going straight from a low poly model to a high but I find it usually gets a better result, especially as you can easily add details to the high poly model that you didn't have in mind when you created the low poly.

Good luck!

stabbington
02-07-2007, 10:24 PM
Imagus - you sir, are a legend! cheers again ; )

hokay, thanks for the tip on scaling the extrudes - i'll make sure i do that! i'll ask fred on the artisan forum tomorrow and check if the concept thing will be a problem too...

hopefully thingummy should work now, if not imageshack's being silly again. like i say though, it's really nothing special!

terraarc - hey terra! mental connection idea sounds fun actually, i'll see if i have polys left for alpha mapping some glowy energy link from the helmet then ; )

and thankyou for reminding me about the tri on export thing, i'd started trying to model the head really efficiently with tris and all included which wouldn't have exported properly at all... so i've gone back through and quaded everything back up again! ta for the great link too!

timothyD - cheers! glad you like it so far :)

now that i've started modelling i'm seeing the merits of your workflow more clearly. going low to high i've realised that i'm going to have to go back and clean up all the unnecessary 'export friendly' quads, so retopologising is unavoidable either way...

think what i'll do is carry on with this version of the low-poly (all quads) then clone and start the sub-division part and export for detailing.. then... i'll see if it's going to be easier redoing the topology of the original mesh or building from scrach to fit the high poly : )

hopefully the 6 week timeframe will give me enough leeway to try things like this out...

thanks again for all the help!

time for another tiny, piffling update then!

headage...
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/125/wipvs2.jpg


bear in mind that this is by no means efficient poly use, this will all be butchered back into nice clean tris eventually ; )

ooh, the excitement :D

Imagus
02-08-2007, 07:31 PM
Imagus - you sir, are a legend! cheers again ; )Legend, huh? Hm... can I quote you in a letter to Pixar? ;)

hopefully thingummy should work now, if not imageshack's being silly again. like i say though, it's really nothing special!Maybe not, but I still wanted to see it. Broken images bug me, especially when they have intriguing names like "Thingummy". ;) And it does look cool! Best of luck with the character model mapping, once you get to it. :thumbsup:

It's great to see your thread getting a good amount of interest. You've got a solid concept, so nothing to it but to do it! Let me know what they say RE: the scope idea. For what it's worth, you should consider running with the other concept after the contest. But one thing at a time, right? :D

Oh, and here's the main tutorials I used to get a lot of the information I've been mentioning regarding normal maps - a lot of REALLY good info, including the "no sharp edges" and "hi-poly extrude" tips (see Part II, page 2 - "Tips for Creating Models"):
Ben Cloward's Normal Map Tutorial, Part I (http://www.bencloward.com/tutorials_normal_maps1.shtml)
Ben Cloward's Normal Map Tutorial, Part II (http://www.bencloward.com/tutorials_normal_maps9.shtml)

stabbington
02-08-2007, 11:09 PM
imagus - can I quote you in a letter to Pixar? ;)

hehe, i wouldn't go that far! doubt my word carries much weight as it is :P

thanks yet again for the great links, i must have missed those on ben's site before but they're proving mightily useful as per! cheers for all of the support, as per ; )

here's where i'm up to so far -

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9484/cgwipxt2.jpg

1,458 tris so far, but like i say i'll be optimising further and adding to the details once the whole body is roughed out : )

onto the arms now methinks!

thanks for looking :D

Airflow
02-09-2007, 06:31 AM
Wow, thats Daym deadly.... great stuff...

stabbington
02-09-2007, 08:43 AM
airflow - cheers :D loving yours so far too!

update time, mainly because my brain's starting to burn out from lack of sleep :eek:
http://www.peetlee.com/wip/mfdom.jpg

3,408 tris, plenty to optimise when it comes to that stage. still needs - leg fixes, feet, loin cloth, scarf-cape(TM), shoulder pads and some smaller detailing - planes for feather, leg pouch/knife, etc.

might throw in a few more of those longer fin/spike thingies sticking out of his back to balance the model better too and possibly redesign them so they curve more like the helm crest too...

JamesMK
02-09-2007, 08:51 AM
This is looking very good so far - love the overall design of this thing.

tastatura
02-09-2007, 11:09 AM
Ahhh thats great progress mate great, the modeling is very nice also :)
a tail may look very nice on this fella ;)
you are on a nice track keep up the speed of light
post upd :bounce:

Imagus
02-09-2007, 03:25 PM
Excellent start on the modeling... that's going to be one interesting-looking rig! :D

When optimizing, make sure to pay attention to the joint areas. That's basic advice, I know... but in this case it's very important, as the model has very thin, spindly limbs, and having the polygons break correctly may prove tricky. Fortunately, it looks like you've got a good amount of detail to play with in those areas, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

stabbington
02-10-2007, 05:36 AM
JamesMK - cheers! i'm pretty pleased with how it's all going so far considering ; )

tastatura - ooh, tail! now that could be a good plan actually, adds a bit more spice to the back... hmm, i'll see if i can juggle one up :D cheers!

Imagus - hehe, i'm trying not to think too much about the rig, the scarf-cloak is the part that's got me worried! thanks for the handy pointers, when i optimise the mesh i'll try and pop a few more 'safety-loops' in, especially on the legs...

thanks, as always!


so, update time with pointless fg renders! woo!

base mesh done, i think...

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom2.jpg

unoptimised it's sitting at 5,428 tris so i've got plenty to spare for 'extras' and smoothing out any blocky bits. plus i can probably shave a good few hundred off just by killing a lot of the quads already there but it'll have to stay like this until the hi-poly is done : )

thanks for looking! any advice greatly appreciated, as per :D

ximage
02-10-2007, 11:22 AM
wooo wooo, dude your working quick. wish my concept was nearly done, then i could start the modelling.

looking good. nice shape to it. maybe need summat to hold on his shoulder pad things. loving this thread tho, turned into a bit of a tutorial bank. which im liking.

dude you need to get some sleep tho, seriously, u posted this work at 6 o'clock this morning. are you an owl?? :scream:

ximage

djolar
02-10-2007, 03:59 PM
I would totally serrate the side edges of his helmet. He looks cold and wicked.

System404
02-10-2007, 04:05 PM
wow this is coming out cool! you are quick, must hurry mine along!! That helmet looks great.

coCoKNIght
02-10-2007, 05:18 PM
nice clean modeling, you're doing great! :thumbsup:

medunecer
02-10-2007, 11:21 PM
I like it! Fast and well made character. Good luck!

Ulven
02-11-2007, 08:10 AM
Go Peet! Great start here. I suggest looking those sides we talked about some more and maybe his hips. Also, his upper body has so much definition, maybe balance this with some more shape and weight lower down? Looking forward to seeing the updates.

stabbington
02-11-2007, 09:36 AM
ximage - hehe, i tend to go a bit mad when i get into the flow. i could happily model 24 hours a day if it wasn't for that whole sleep thing my brain seems to need to do things properly....

good call on the shoulder pads, i'll add in some straps or something for them! cheers!

djolar - i really like that idea actually, i'll have a go at that on the hi-poly and see how it looks! should have more than enough left on the low to squeeze them in. thanks a lot :D

System404 - cheers! looks like you're speeding along nicely too ; )

coCoKNIght - thanks coco!

medunecer - good luck to you too!

Ulven - good morning mr. m!

will do, i'm going to rejig things around a lot on the hi-poly version, the legs will have a plethora of straps and attachments, tattoos and the like to bring in some balance : )


so, here's the first pass on the mid frequency details for the armour, starting work on the back now -

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom3.jpg


lots more detailing i'd like to work in but i'm worried it'd be overkill once i have the runes on as well. still, we'll see how it goes!

think i'm having far too much fun here...

ximage
02-11-2007, 10:18 AM
This is looking in good shape, im liking it alot. Hope your taking this baby into mudbox or the zbrush to give it some nice battle scars and general wear and tear. should look good with the runes on I think.
I take it ur gonna use the nvidia filter for the runes normal mapping, and then just mix them with the other normals. I haven't used the Nvidia thing yet, but i also heard some good thing about crazy bump, dont know if you have heard of it.
any ways il shut up after one more question, what package are you using to model?
cheers, keep it up.

ximage

stabbington
02-11-2007, 11:21 AM
ximage - hey daniel! i'm hoping to get access to zbrush or mudbox for this, think it's probably going to be a necessary to get a decent bit of normal detailing done... and yup, the runes will be done with the nvidia filter and overlaid onto the original normal map :)

i dl'ed crazybump a little while ago after hearing great things about it over on polycount, haven't had a chance to take it for a spin yet but i'll definitely try it out and see how it fares! the nvidia filter's been a cinch to use so far though so i'm very curious as to what it is about crazybump that has everyone singing its praises...

hehe, and it's all modelled in 3ds max :D


on another note i was curious as to whether for the high poly version you could have multiple objects making up the full model? like having objects intersecting as long as there's no 'holes' if you get me... just wondering about things like getting normals done for the straps, as i'm not relishing having to model those directly into the geometry : /

fx81
02-11-2007, 05:33 PM
hey Peet, nice developement so far. my suggestion would be to redesign the joints(elbows, knees and ankle) of the limbs and mae be make the torso longer. the joints look little too ambiguous right now. anyways, keep going:thumbsup:

ximage
02-11-2007, 06:33 PM
well as i have not done a low poly model before dont quote me on this. but....

I would think the best way to do it would be seperate models. i dont know if you can do it in 3DS max, but if i select mutiple object is XSI, i can do multiple UVlayout at the same time. so i would have seperate objects, with seperate UV's then do the normal mapping for the seperate object, mix the normal in PS after genrating them, and merge the meshes together, which transfers the UVlayout over ( well it does in XSI). and u have one mesh with a UV, and all your normals. woo woo.

hope this makes sense. can some pro tell us if this sounds wrong or just completely wrong haha. cus this was gonna be my work flow!! :D

ximage

stabbington
02-12-2007, 08:30 AM
mashru - thanks a lot! i'll give those changes a go, i definitely agree about the joints being a little lost in the mix now :) cheers!

ximage - hehe, yeah i figured that seperating the maps and combining at the end would work, just curious if having non-contiguous yet closed meshes would work if they were attached as the same object, like if you had a small box primitive sticking out of a sphere, as long as they're intersecting with no gaps...

ta for the advice though, i'll probably go that route if i can't do it any other way :D

here's an update on the back, got some work to do on the vertebrae still and i'm going to change the detailing on the middle pair of spikes but i think that's the painful part over with!

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom4.jpg


onto the fun bits next!

terraarc
02-12-2007, 09:20 AM
You are working pretty fast there mate! Nice going so far.
Don't quite sure if I understood your problem on UVing but I think I do what ximage describes,...well more or less! I use Max to unwrap all separate objects then bake normal and all other maps, do the tweaks in PS, re-edit the UVs and merging objects...haven't tried unwrap on multiple selection though!!! Don't know why I haven't thought of that :sad:

brokenpencil
02-12-2007, 05:03 PM
Your model is coming along beautifully, I really like the hard surface details you are getting in your armor. Im Curious, when you are doing the mid/hi res hard surface details in 3DS Max/ Maya... do you just bake the normals in the 3D package for the hi res, and reapply that normal map to the real time model, much like you would when going from hi-res in ZB? I dont really like doing the hard surface details in ZB because truly hard edges, like those in your model, are hard to acheive inside ZB. Hope the above makes sense, keep going it is looking awesome! :)

ximage
02-12-2007, 06:14 PM
This is coming along really nicely. yeh sorry understood the question a bit. ah well. really liking the detail. the normal maps should come out nicely on this peice. looking forward to more updates!! woo woo

ximage

Squibbit
02-12-2007, 09:13 PM
nice progress, dude, I like the armor alot :thumbsup:


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stabbington
02-13-2007, 12:38 PM
terraarc - hehe, cheers! yeah, i'll run some tests and see what happens i think ; )

brokenpencil - yup, that's the plan anyway ; ) i'll probably drop the hard-edged midpoly into zbrush/mudbox as well just to get some extra detailing in but i'll be doing all the baking in max... thanks for the kind words!

ximage - cheers matey! hopefully it'll turn out okay in the end :D

Squibbit - thanks a lot! yours is coming along beautifully btw ; )


sooo, here's the head so far:

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom5.jpg


i'm not really feeling it yet though... i'm going to try serrating the edge rim of the helmet like djolar suggested and see if it reignites the spark for me...

i could just be burning myself out on this though, it's all i've been doing 24/7 and i've already started the armour 5 times over now before i got to where i am now... maybe a little break is all i need : /

edit - just noticed some bits on the stomach armour that are way too boxy, i'll fix those up before tackling the head again : )

polygonwarrior
02-13-2007, 04:13 PM
model is looking good.:)

Frostics
02-13-2007, 04:20 PM
wow that model is looking pritty sick dude!!

maje3d
02-13-2007, 11:58 PM
looking really good there. Some nice hard surface detailing indeed. It'll be neat to see how your textures come out.

djolar
02-14-2007, 12:16 AM
I really like the back/spine area!

stabbington
02-14-2007, 04:15 PM
CUBISIS - cheers :D

Frostics - hehe, thanks a lot!

maje3d - thankyew! i'm a lot more confident with the texturing/unwrapping side than all this normal map malarkey but hopefully the two will tie together pretty well ; )

djolar - cheers man! i tried the serrated edges but they looked a bit silly.. i'll have a go at some different ways of doin it and see if it works better though!

thanks all for the comments! gave me a nice morale boost about where this is all going :)


here's the first pass on the limbs, max is chugging like a fool at the moment though so i'll probably have to break the hi-res into chunks to get any kind of fine detailing in. no biggie though i s'pose :D

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom6.jpg


(apologies for slightly washed out bad GI render :D) lots to iron out, lots more detail to go in and the armour need some proportion fixes (height and hip width) getting there though methinks...

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom6a.jpg



thanks for all the support so far, it's been much appreciated!

brokenpencil
02-15-2007, 12:14 AM
Hi Bonzepeet,
I think that you should work on the pelvic reigon of your model, the way that the hip joints jut out like that looks very awkward. The upper body is looking pretty tight, but I bet you will be pleasantly surprised at the new look of your character with an adjustment here. Either thin out the hips or widen out the waist a bit and put some kind of armor hanging over hips from armor above.

stabbington
02-15-2007, 02:42 PM
brokenpencil - hallo! i completely agree, it's on my to-do list :D

it's a lot more obvious now that the mid-poly passes are all in together. think i'll go for a tiny thinning of the pelvis and a major widening of the waistline of the armour... cheers!


here's an update on his legs, almost done with them i reckon unless anyone has any major gripes? i'll be dropping in a bit more high-frequency detailing on the normal map in ps later too...

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom8.jpg

jbrophy
02-15-2007, 05:18 PM
Wow, working very fast. Looking sweet man.

brokenpencil
02-15-2007, 05:46 PM
lets see some more wrinkles in the feet/ heels and the knees, also define the toenails a bit more, as they are exposed. joins with tough skin around them would tend to wrinkle :O) since you have so much time to spare. Oh also, is he wearing shoes? or are the straps just a design element? I think you should give hi, a romanesq sandal with the open toes, you would only need to put a strap between the toes and put a pad below his feet. Just athought.Hoping to finish this freelance model I am making and start modeling on my character come this weekendand post design update... post an update after you fix the waistline, looking good

MrEric
02-15-2007, 08:33 PM
Wow your fast :) are you sleep or eat? :P

reminds me a litlle bit Abe :)

SkyePhelps
02-16-2007, 02:51 AM
That's coming along awesomely, I've been watching your thread for a while, but just havn't had time to post. I like how you went with a powerful alien race approach rather then the ancient earth civilization. Keep up the awesome work, can't wait to see more of it.

stabbington
02-17-2007, 03:24 PM
jbrophy - cheers j! look forward to seeing more from yours ; )

brokenpencil - heh, i've had to manually adjust the toenails on the hi-poly in max... unfortunately my pc is a bit too old and creaky to deal with getting anything in at a higher res so the finer details like that will have to be botched in with the nvidia filter or crazybump.

on that note though, i did have a lot more high frequency details in like skin folds and pores but it never seems to hold when i import it into max : / oddness...

i'll have a think on the sandals, i think i preferred having him barefoot from the perspective of a nomadic hunter-gatherer but i suppose the ancients probably had decent footwear too! i've had lots of great suggestions on additions from my other regular forum so i'll see what's left poly-wise after i get those in ;)

MrEric - hehe, i'm an 8 stone insomiac if that answers your question :P
i do go a little mental work-hours wise when i get into the swing of things though.. i see what you mean about abe too after a quick google reminder, similar limbs in some ways :)

SkyePhelps - cheers! really glad you like it so far :D


updates on the arms, i don't know why i keep putting straps on my concepts either, they're always reallly tedious to model in :scream:

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom9.jpg


going to readjust the torso next to match better with the new limbs and then throw it into z-brush for some battle wear : )

eMysfit
02-17-2007, 05:39 PM
You've got my vote so far. Can't wait to see it finished. It's coming along really nicely!

stabbington
02-18-2007, 08:35 PM
eMysfit - cheers :D we'll see how it goes...!

the scarf-cape's in now, started work on the hi-pass of the shoulderpads too but i've got a pinched nerve in my shoulder slowing the whole shebang down : /

i've made some proportion changes too - torso is longer and wider at the hips, bulked out his waist on the loin cloth and i've rejigged the head a fair bit too, which i'm a lot happier about now...

i found that making the waist wider made him look a bit too human and lost some of his character though, so i've plumped for this as a compromise for now...

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom10.jpg


i tried to get the armour into zbrush but my computer can't deal with getting it to a high enough res to sculpt any fine details so the wear and tear will be another addition to the list of things i'll have to do in ps ; )

so, shoulderpads should be done tomorrow and then i'll start on his accessories...

Airflow
02-18-2007, 10:08 PM
Brilliant.

Quickel
02-18-2007, 11:10 PM
very nice, man...can't wait to see him posed because that stiff posture's making my neck hurt.

heir
02-19-2007, 05:02 AM
I like the skinniness that you've got going on this character, and while he might look fragile I think the best solution is to make him longer to the point of being creepy. He'll still be fragile looking but the further that he gets from being human the less that will look like a liability.

I can't wait to see more, keep up the great work. And good luck with the sluggish computer :)

stabbington
02-20-2007, 11:49 AM
Airflow - cheers mate!

Quickel - hehe, yeah it is a bit severe. should maybe have modelled him in a more relaxed stance : /

heir - thanks a lot! i completely agree, so i've started stretching him out to see what he looks like. here's the first revision on the stretch-a-thon, any more and he looks a bit silly i think...
http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom12.jpg


i've been discussing ideas on how to 'jazz' him up a bit too and make him fit more into his role if this was an actual video game. nick quackenbush (chaosquack) has suggested maybe shrinking down his trigger arm so he has a specialised yet vestigal arm just for firing the gun whilst the longer one steadies it which i think 'could' be quite a good move. i'm even thinking maybe add that in as a third arm maybe...?

anyway, i'll see what you guys think and hack away at making changes :)

pitiwazou
02-20-2007, 12:18 PM
Good modeling and good design, I like it ;)

stabbington
02-20-2007, 05:01 PM
pitiwazou - cheers cedric! got lots of stuff to rejig but hopefully it's all a step in the right direction ;)

here's the first attempt at his little trigger arm, one finger, one thumb - guess that's all he should need!

might be a little high up, or maybe too small. not sure yet but i'll work on it some more...

http://www.peetlee.com/wip/dom13.jpg


yay, nay, boo, hurray?

Imagus
02-20-2007, 09:19 PM
I step away for a few days and you do all THIS? :eek:

Hehe... nicely done, amigo. I think your earlier prediction about your chances in this contest may have been a bit premature. :D

On the trigger arm, depending how he actually holds the gun, it may be a little bit short... make sure that it can reach the trigger.

Ganbatte! :thumbsup:

Squibbit
02-20-2007, 09:46 PM
nice goin dude


.

brokenpencil
02-24-2007, 12:11 AM
Hey Bonze, I am not sure what the purpose of the trigger arm is for.... is he going to have duel guns? one in each arm? Maybe if he was weilding a gun in one arm and a sword in the other? this is the only purpose I could think of to have an arm like this, you could have other ideas.... I think you should widen out the cape more, capes are typically meant for protection from the elements, the cape just looks awkward to me as it is right now.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/broken_pencil/2D%20Drawings/dom10.jpg

sorry moused in the lines :O), do you see what I mean though?

ScudzAlmighty
02-24-2007, 02:33 AM
possibly the most wonderfully bizarre entry of the bunch, nice:thumbsup:

eMysfit
03-24-2007, 04:42 PM
Please tell me you are finishing!:scream:

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