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Equinoxx
02-05-2007, 09:48 PM
There you have it, The Dominance War II forum where you guys can post wips, get critique and feedback and whatnot.

it's our own little playground to breed our shadows to bring the war on to the others.

so, post threads,

name them

Dominance War II: YourNameHere

for clarities sake.

enjoy.


also, don't forget to go to http://dominancewar.com/ to join up and post thumbs and such, read the brief and all that

Seebaer
02-06-2007, 06:28 AM
I have a question, just saw on 3DT-Board that they are doing a logo for their shadows, i would recommend that we do the same!? :)

Equinoxx
02-06-2007, 07:39 AM
good point. Rally the troops, lets get this going

(altho it really would have to be an incarnation of the atomlogo of cgtalk)

Seebaer
02-06-2007, 08:05 AM
yes of course, but really using the original is not very creative :thumbsup:

FredH
02-06-2007, 12:40 PM
Just thought I would mention, there has been a big rule update. Some people thought they could use old concepts because only the word model was used in the first sentence. here is the updated version:

- Feb 6th Update - No Old Models, textures, and Concepts! Everything must be created specifically for this contest!


_FreD_

Equinoxx
02-06-2007, 01:46 PM
some people ... I would think people would know that is an unwritten rule at the very least (now a written one)

thanks for the update Fred

FredH
02-06-2007, 04:05 PM
This might warrant a new thread?


Thumbnail/Finals Submission System is now activated!

To get your entry officially into Dominance War II, please press the join button on any of the Dominance War II pages.

Submitting Thumbnails is mandatory.


Additionally, There has been another new important rule update.

Feb 6th Update - This is a community building event. Creating forum threads and showing your work in progress is mandatory. Entries submitted without showing their work in progress will be disqualified. Entries who keep their work a secret until the last few days can potentially be disqualified.



Good Luck!
_FreD_

foche
02-06-2007, 05:32 PM
I got a question, to fight for cgsociety has to be a cgsociety member, or only been a cgtalk member is good?
thanx!

Equinoxx
02-06-2007, 05:45 PM
CgTalk member is good enough.

It's just the The whole community of cgtalk goes by the name of CgSociety, thats where the reference comes from :)

foche
02-06-2007, 06:33 PM
Thanx for the quick answer Equinoxx

fx81
02-06-2007, 10:42 PM
Hi Dimitris, it has been awhile. I thought I should warn you, thumbnail positions on dominancewar.com never change on the view entry page, so it would be a shame if your art was not on page no.1 for the rest of the comp. You had best hurry and put one in to reserver your spot. I know you are a good artist, so I thought I should mention this:)

can we change the thumbnail image as we progress ?

metalpiss
02-06-2007, 10:47 PM
yes, you can change it any time you want.

LEEBLEEB
02-06-2007, 11:40 PM
What if the weapon is on the character, can i push the model too 7k?

FredH
02-06-2007, 11:43 PM
mashru --> Like metalpiss said

LEEBLEEB --> No you can't. If your character doesn't have a weapon, you loose the bonus 1000 polygons. If your character is heading in this direction, I suggest you use the extra 1000 for gadgets or perhaps even ammo becuase it would be a shame to waste the extra polies.

RahMorais
02-07-2007, 12:08 AM
ok about that logo thing, we could think about something very creative, them weŽll put it on the shadow, like a mark or something like it, what do u think?

fx81
02-07-2007, 12:44 AM
hi Fred, i noticed that some of thumbs changed position in all four galleries. is that a technical problem?

Yuzrass
02-07-2007, 02:03 AM
"Feel free to break this 2048 sheet into smaller sheets that add up to 2048 total. (example: 4x1024 = 2048)"
Does this mean I cam make a sepparate Leg UV of 1024 and the rest of the body UV 1024 even though they are all the same object? I use Max8 btw.

TheFirstAngel
02-07-2007, 03:18 AM
since i had a bit a hard time to find out everything this time i thought some might find this useful as well.
http://www.dominancewar.com/2/readbrief/index.htm

levin
02-07-2007, 04:45 AM
hi Fred, i noticed that some of thumbs changed position in all four galleries. is that a technical problem?

yeah some entries bump from top.... weird..:shrug:

Azrail
02-07-2007, 07:57 AM
- 1 x 2048 Color, Reflection Map, Specular, Specular Color Map, Normal Map, Bump Map, Opacity(transparency) Map, Glow map, and finally, Glossiness map.

Ok.. so what does that mean actually? You got maximum one map of 2048 px and you can use it /or break it/ for some of these, or you got one 2048px map for any of these features which means 9 maps of 2048px ??

Sorry but my experience in game-ready models is quite.. none ;)

Seebaer
02-07-2007, 08:55 AM
hm, when i read specifications written like this, i would assume that it means max. 9 maps, each 2048 square pixels, but this is very huge...:eek:

but also the polycount is very high, so it's possible, next-gen, you know :thumbsup:

Cyborgguineapig
02-07-2007, 11:05 AM
hm, when i read specifications written like this, i would assume that it means max. 9 maps, each 2048 square pixels, but this is very huge...:eek:

but also the polycount is very high, so it's possible, next-gen, you know :thumbsup:

You can use a 2048 for each type of map and yes 2048 is pretty big, better schedule a week alone to texture:scream:

Seebaer
02-07-2007, 12:29 PM
one week is not enough, iam a per pixel painter, so i have to set 4,2 million pixels per map, multiplied with 3 maps minimum, and 1 secound per pixel is in sum= 145,8 days...damn...iam too slow....

FredH
02-07-2007, 02:22 PM
mashru --> Thumbnail positions are actually based on when a person hit the join button. Those who appear on top were simply quicker at the draw. If you look at mine for instance, it will never move because I was the first one testing it out:)

Yuzrass --> Yes, you can slap on 4 different sheets for each part of his body. Usually, people keep the head texture on a seperate sheet, so, a leg would be just as fine. Good luck

Azrail --> it means you have one 2048 sheet for each type of sheet listed:)

FredH
02-07-2007, 02:25 PM
EDIT --> Issue fixed:thumbsup:

Note to CGSociety

For the first time, a team has broken the 50 cap page limit. Congratulations on making a page 2, but now we need to fix the programming for it to actually show up. For those of you who are on page II, I apologize for the delay. It will be fixed shortly.

CreesyComplex
02-07-2007, 04:34 PM
just trying to get any post to actually post lol

CreesyComplex
02-07-2007, 04:35 PM
okay. how come i can post here but when i create a new thread for the dominance war it doesnt show? im lost in the sauce.

CreesyComplex
02-08-2007, 01:09 AM
ok... i promise i model/texture better than i know how to work this posting thing. Ive got 3 threads going accidentally. is there an option anywhere for me to remove threads that i have started???

taehoon
02-08-2007, 03:21 AM
Hello,I have a question about team work.

They don't count concept designer as a team. so team means two modelers working together... right..?

Does that mean two people make one 6000 tris model together ? or make two 6000 models and combine one stand?

and One more question is, If there is no limitation for the stand. can we make million poly with hugh textures that presents much more than main character.?

ill_logic
02-08-2007, 03:36 AM
hey taehoon. i think the team thing comes down to other things like one person modeling or one person texturing, or whatever. if a team did two 6000 models, they really necessarily wouldn't be much of a team. and there really isn't a limit to the stand & you can make it as detailed as you want, but you want it to definitely pull a lot of focus to a clear 'unimpeded' view of the character. hope that helps


-J

aesir
02-08-2007, 08:47 AM
I was looking through the majority of the cgtalk entries, and it seems like the majority translated the brief saying, race of ancients as: other normal humans on some other planet.

rather odd imo. I felt rather sure that it meant crazy high tech high sci fi alien race, but most of you seem to think they have lots of human snipers...

MattBirkett-Smith
02-08-2007, 09:03 AM
I have a couple of questions:

Firstly are we supposed to create our character in a neutral bind pose and then pose them once completed or can we model them from scratch in their dynamic pose? I can understand why you'd want a bind pose but it does mean a lot more work to rig and skin. Also if we can model to a set pose do you have any problems with baking lighting based on that pose? For a real games character this would create issues when moving but for this it would be really nice to be able to do.

Secondly what are we allowed to do when crating the final beauty image? Does it all have to be viewport hardware shaders or are we supposed to render it?

edit: I've just remembered another point, I'm guessing that if we are doing viewport shading then we can't use any mirrored UV space. At least in maya if you flip UVs then it flips the normal map direction as well, I'm not sure if it does this in other programs or not.

aesir
02-08-2007, 09:22 AM
I can answer some of your questions.

No one has ever asked that question about modeling it in pose... I could see that causing significant problems with the unwrap if you wanted to have any shared UV space between things like arms and hands and legs or whatever. I certainly dont think doing it your way would be encouraged considering that you would never do that to create a character for a game. If you do model it in pose, you'd probably be the only person to do so. Anyways, it would probably take longer to model in pose... Adding a few bones and making the pose assymetrical is a cakewalk. You can make a dirty rig and bind in under an hour easy.

For the beauty render, you can render it out using whatever lighting you want although I expect some people will opt for all viewport shading because they like it that way. Its up to you.

The flipping UVs issue isnt a problem in max.

MattBirkett-Smith
02-08-2007, 10:01 AM
ok, well the reason I ask about the pose is that I'm planning on having multiple layers of loose clothing around the shoulders. Possibly tunic, armour, cloak and pelt - possibly something a bit like this:

http://www.bfi.org.uk/features/ultimatefilm/chart/images/185/99_gladiator.jpg

I'd also like to have one arm fairly raised in his "winning" pose and I really don't want to have to worry about the mess of shoulder deformations that would come from all that so I was hoping I could just model it in place from the start.

Interesting to hear we can render it, I'm guessing that excessive use of advanced lighting and shader techniques would be discouraged.

I guess I'll just have to work around the flipped normal thing in maya, hopefully I can get it to render correctly regardless.

coCoKNIght
02-08-2007, 03:27 PM
If a concept artist doesn't count as team member does that mean we're allowed to have concept slaves? LOL :scream:

MattBirkett-Smith
02-08-2007, 07:23 PM
I was just wondering, who would be a good person to contact to clarify the modelling to a pose issue?

FredH
02-08-2007, 09:56 PM
taehoon --> Like ill_logic said:)

aesir --> Yeah, it is a bit strange, but it's alright. I guess everyone likes humans...

MattBirkett-Smith --> You can ask me. Yes, I think it would be best to model your work in a neutral pose. Then when you are done, you can pose him. People don't usually spend alot of time on rigging. As long as all the fingers are in seperate envelope and as long as arms and legs don't effect the body, you are good to go. Since you are not making an animation, feel free to tweek vertex's after you position him (this will fix your bad rigging if you didn't do a good job). But, if you would like to model him in an action pose to begin with, good luck. Like aesir said, this would hurt your texture uvs.

Yes, please don't use too much effects and lighting in your winning pose shot. For your beauty render, anything goes.

coCoKNIght --> I hate to authorize this, but yes, slavery is permitted. Feel free to bind a concept artist now:p

digital-boy
02-09-2007, 01:36 AM
"All weapons and detachable gear use the weapon's allocation of polygons (1000 max)"

Does this include clothes/armor/adornments?

Seebaer
02-09-2007, 06:52 AM
i don't think so, except you model his/her whole naked body under the armour...

Equinoxx
02-09-2007, 07:49 AM
weapons is anything used in combat (knives, guns grenades) anything else, armor, clothes falls under the character polylimit

Bushidou
02-12-2007, 08:47 AM
This looks like a very promising community and contest. I’m taking part at it

Good luck to everyone.

--
wondering how to setup a thumbnail but guess I need to read further



- 武士道

paladinsword
02-12-2007, 03:17 PM
Dear colleagues,

I read the brief for Dominance War II a few minutes ago and I have some doubts regarding the rules. I have worked on 3D models for games before and therefore, my interpretation of the rules is based on what I have done, read and learnt about this. Please correct me if I am wrong.

1. The polygon limitations say 6000 TRIs for characters and 1000 TRIs for weapons.
- When you say 6000 TRIs, do you mean that the model should have 3000 Quads only?
I know it seems like a silly question, but I had this doubt and I thought it would be better to get it clarified before I ended up skewering my work.

2. About the texture sheet of 2048X2048 pixels.
- I have textured some game models before and the basic rule there was that the model had exactly ONE texture sheet. In the texture SHEET, smaller maps would be included and used on the game model, and accessories, for different purposes.

So, by saying a texture sheet of 2048X2048 pixels, do the guidelines mean that we can use as many maps as we want so long as it fits in a sheet of 2048X2048 pixels?

I read the various interpretations of the rule here and I think the rules mean that you can use as many maps as you want so long as you end up with only ONE 2048X2048 texture sheet.

Kindly clarify my doubts and correct me where I am wrong. Best of luck to everyone and most importantly, have fun! Thanking you in advance,

With regards and best wishes,

Jaidev. K

DooFi
02-12-2007, 03:26 PM
1. No, it means 6000 tris, nothing more, nothing less. There can of course be n-gons in your model, but the tris count. So when you triangulate your mesh, it's gotta be 6000 or less tris.

2. Afaik you can devide the sheet into as many parts as you like. You don't want to do under 256Č anyway. But like 4x 1024Č would be okay i guess. Like 1 for the armor, one for the head, one for the legs and one for err.. the hat xD


I'd love to join this epic battle, but unfortunately I suck badly when it comes to Characters. And I wouldn't even dare to start with a 6000 tri next-gen (or current gen ;)) char.

FredH
02-12-2007, 07:14 PM
For the texture sheet, you have 1 2048 sheet for each of the sheets I listed in the brief. So, one 2048 diffuse, 1x2048 bump, 1x2048 spec, 1x2048 normal etc.

Anyone who actually uses this to its maximum is seriously crazy!:p Personally, I think I will just use a 1024 sheet for a few of the listed sheets. I don't have time for anything bigger.

Good luck

[edit] In your final texture sheet that must be handed in, you have to squeeze in the two basic sheets (diffuse, and normal map[if used]) and as many of the others as you can. Feel free to do a pretty design. If you look at some of last year's dominancewar entries, they got creative on their final texture sheet's design.

_FreD_

creinholtz
02-13-2007, 01:39 AM
Hey, good luck to everyone. I can't wait to see what everyone pulls out for this.

XeroWolf
02-15-2007, 04:43 AM
Wow I am totally charged for this contest. A friend of mine just told me that there was going to be another Dominance War contest a few hours ago and I just had to take part. I missed out on it the last time (I guess that's kinda fitting for me since we were asleep during the last war) but this time I cannot let this pass me by. I just wish he had told me about it a little sooner. Anyways it's late here so I'm off to bed to dream up some concepts for my Shadow.

The best of luck to everyone, night!

nizzi
02-15-2007, 05:47 AM
so, does the character need to have a back? Can we use all of the polys and texture space just for what is seen in the images we render? Not really a usable game character at that point, but would allow for a lot more detail where its seen. :)

Ghostscape
02-15-2007, 02:05 PM
so, does the character need to have a back? Can we use all of the polys and texture space just for what is seen in the images we render? Not really a usable game character at that point, but would allow for a lot more detail where its seen. :)

Not making it a usable game character really defeats the purpose of a game art challenge, don't you think?

Rod Seffen
02-17-2007, 07:59 PM
Well, I have to say, even though Cg Talk has the most entries so far, Polycount seem to be ahead on general quality of entries, just based on a cursory perusal of the thumbnail previews...it's gonna be tough to beat them.

GavinG
02-17-2007, 08:12 PM
They do have a much stronger, more experienced and closer game art community than CG Talk.

Junerahe
02-18-2007, 04:56 AM
I have been concepting since the day I first read the brief and only recently have I made the decision to take up the fight for the ancients. But I try to join and keep getting redirected to a page that asks me to check a "remember me" box on the gameartisans.org website in which I have no account. Do I have to join that website as well or is this a glitch that can be remedied?

Equinoxx
02-18-2007, 10:14 PM
you do indeed have to sign up there in order to create an account on the dominance war site

XeroWolf
02-21-2007, 09:19 PM
I have a question about using normal maps on models and the level of realism that models need to have. I've been browsing though some of the thread and I've seen alot amazing models coming together, some with very high levels of detail with hi-res normal maps that could give my PC a stroke. what if you want to make a more cartoon like model where the use of normal may not be nececary or even make the model look worse than without them. Will you lose points for not using normal maps or make cartoon stylish model instead of the hyper-realistic one?

Also can I get some feedback on my concept sketches? Thanks :p
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=219&t=465181

zeke3d
02-21-2007, 09:39 PM
can we incorporate env-maps as part of our textures? can we use them? also do all FX have to be present in the model, like a light cone or fog or stuff like that... cause in games they are spawned by the engine by using various methods???

Swizzle
02-21-2007, 10:48 PM
Will you lose points for not using normal maps or make cartoon stylish model instead of the hyper-realistic one?The way I've heard it, you're not allowed to do cartoony characters, but that certainly doesn't mean you can't do something fantastical. You're allowed to use any of the maps they list in the brief, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to normal map if you don't want to.

Swizzle
02-23-2007, 07:32 PM
Anybody here have any idea when we'll be seeing this "Big announcement" they're talking about on the WIP entries page?

Swizzle
02-24-2007, 08:05 PM
So I guess that's a negative on there even being an announcement?

XeroWolf
02-24-2007, 08:20 PM
Well FredH said on the GameArtisans that he add the a judges button to the different team pages but I'm not sure if that's it. The forum has been updated a bit though. http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/index.php

fx81
02-24-2007, 09:05 PM
http://www.dominancewar.com/2/judges/

that is correct. 'judges' is the new announcement.

jasondesigns
02-25-2007, 11:39 PM
Hey I initially named my post incorrectly, like a noob:D ... I tried to edit it but it still shows up wrong on the main page... how can I fix it?
My thread:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=219&t=467490

jbrophy
03-02-2007, 07:05 PM
can we incorporate env-maps as part of our textures? can we use them? also do all FX have to be present in the model, like a light cone or fog or stuff like that... cause in games they are spawned by the engine by using various methods???

To follow up on this. Can we use an HDRI map for a environment reflection map?

rept0r
03-06-2007, 11:39 PM
Lets say i have the soldier riding a horse and then i have this huge sword and he has this incredible detailed shield...
In the end the weapon uses 500tris, the horse 2000tris, the char 3000tris, the shield 1000tris and then i get very confused with the polycount and decide to keep everything under 7000 tris, will i be crucified for doing this ?

taehoon
03-07-2007, 07:43 AM
So.. By when is the exact closing time?

11:59 pm, 18th of March ? or

11:59 pm, 19th of March ?


Still confusing...~

coCoKNIght
03-07-2007, 08:01 AM
Lets say i have the soldier riding a horse and then i have this huge sword and he has this incredible detailed shield...
In the end the weapon uses 500tris, the horse 2000tris, the char 3000tris, the shield 1000tris and then i get very confused with the polycount and decide to keep everything under 7000 tris, will i be crucified for doing this ?

I think it's more likely you'll be crucified for not making much sense but who am I to argue, I haven't slept... :scream:
on a sidenote, your weapon and your shield have more than the allowed 1k tris for the equipment, but if eighter one of these is one with your character that's fine.

rept0r
03-07-2007, 02:53 PM
coCoKNIght: tnx man, think i ll just leave everything under 6k and be a good citzen.

zeke3d
03-07-2007, 06:32 PM
yes, please clarify the closing time and in which timezone, this things beign participated from india to the left coast

ill_logic
03-07-2007, 06:56 PM
yes, please clarify the closing time and in which timezone, this things beign participated from india to the left coast

fyi, the internet's great! lots of neat stuff you can find on it. :D

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/)


-J

MattBirkett-Smith
03-11-2007, 01:14 PM
bump, on the deadline issue, I'm considering booking monday off work (I have some holiday time to use up) but I'd like to know if I'd be able to use much of it for tweaking.

Ramseus
03-13-2007, 02:26 AM
Can someone help me out here? I don't understand this rigging stuff at all (I'm using max 8 by the way). So I have my bones all made but I don't have any clue what to do next. :cry:

edit: and I should add, I was trying to follow the rigging tuts on 3dtotal but they are far from complete noob friendly

edit2: nevermind, I've got it now *runs away*

AnttiK
03-13-2007, 10:30 AM
Hi,

A quick (and maybe dumb) question: For the final model, do I just count the tris or do I have to also convert all the polys into tris?

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s19/Antti_K/SaboteurModelWIP.gif

Cheers,

Antti

hakanpersson
03-13-2007, 08:42 PM
if you get more tris after u triangulate, something is strange:scream: so the tri-count should be all that matters. But I have a simple follow-up question on that: is a triangulated wireframe preferred? or doesnt it matter at all?

GavinG
03-22-2007, 07:58 AM
Hey Fred, and others. I'm reaching the process of putting my renders onto the 800 x 900 px image size and I was wondering. Is this just the image limit or does every image need to be exactly 800 x 900? I know the thumbnail absolutely needs to be 128x128 but I was wondering if the same rule applies to the submission images. I'm just having issues fitting things intot he size..If I could make it like, 600 x 1000 or something maybe it would work better.

Anyways, just wanted to see if there was some wiggle room with that rule. Either way I'll figure something out :)


PEACE!
Gav

SeanB
03-24-2007, 03:52 PM
Just wanted to point out for the few who don't know, that some of these questions have been addressed on the GameArtisans forum. (http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/)

Also, there seems to be a perception that polycount is going do very well. Is this just a general impression or are there specific models over there that are rockin?

jameswearing
11-19-2010, 03:45 PM
Is this still happening?