PDA

View Full Version : Fragmentation?


a13xr3d
02-03-2007, 07:01 PM
Hi, I wanted to know if there is a script or plugin that acheives the same or greater level of detail with object fragmentation such as Thinking Particles is able to do:

http://www.cebas.com/products/feature.php?UD=10-7888-33-788&PID=15&FID=444

I got Allen McKay's script, but it only helps to an extent.

charleyc
02-03-2007, 11:34 PM
There is nothing for PFlow currently that gives you the same or better frature control that TP. Orbaz is working on PFTools Box2, and it is supposed to have this. There are many work arounds, I may be wrong, but I don't believe you can get the overall control your supposed to with TP.

a13xr3d
02-04-2007, 03:20 AM
Oh, well I'm trying to find a solution, since TP hasn't been released for 3ds9 yet.

charleyc
02-04-2007, 06:09 AM
Search around the main Particle Flow thread and look around at the Orbaz forum (www.orbaz.com (http://www.orbaz.com)). There are ways to do it, they just wont be as easy right now as TP probalby is.

scorpion007
02-05-2007, 01:36 AM
What does TP actually do? Does it break up the geometry for you? If so, how much control do you get over it? Can you make an ice cube shatter with ease? Or a bullet shot into a glass window kind of fracture?
Can someone please shed some light on this?

Thanks

CapitanRed
02-05-2007, 04:34 AM
the bulettime video is done with TP

www.capitanred.carbonmade.com (http://www.capitanred.carbonmade.com)

the TP-fragmenting Operator does pretty the same as allan mckays script. but you have more controle over the whole fragmentation. you don't have to fragment first your object, and then controle the fragments. actually, you're object will be 1 big particle, which imitates the original source object. all deformations will be applayed to it. also mesh deformings ;) thats great about it.
and when you fragment only the half of the object, the remaining mesh will still reference the original deformation and motion of the oiginal object.

scorpion007
02-05-2007, 07:53 AM
What kind of control do you get over the fragmentation? Can it shatter 3d *solid* objects? I.e. not just make a hollow "egg shell" type of shatter?

The deforming geometry sounds interesting, so that means you can shatter an animated character partially, while he's still walking? Kind of like T1000 in Terminator 2, in the liquid nitrogen scene?

supremepizza
02-05-2007, 09:33 AM
Search the MAXScript forum . There's some nice things laying around there. I saw something along these lines yesterday but I can't remember where exactly. :shrug: The one I remember I think was called split or something like that. You could run that then do an unwrap on your chunks to make materials stick (i think this works I'm going to try this today myself) then save your locations for a birth script. Ok I found it on my zip drive it's called SplitItUp.ms. Search for that.Best o' luck
Bill

CapitanRed
02-05-2007, 12:11 PM
SCORPION007:

What kind of control do you get over the fragmentation? Can it shatter 3d *solid* objects? I.e. not just make a hollow "egg shell" type of shatter?


yea, thats unfortunately still not possible. it makes a egg shell, but you can adjust the thickness of it. you can also give the new faces a mat ID. ant the fragments will keep the uv coordinates of the faces they have from the recent object.


The deforming geometry sounds interesting, so that means you can shatter an animated character partially, while he's still walking? Kind of like T1000 in Terminator 2, in the liquid nitrogen scene?


yes, excatly this is possible. I don't know about the Terminator scene...but you can fragment your mesh, while the not fragmented part is still moving ;)

http://www.3dplanet.de/cgfluids/
this is the TP forum. you must register befor you can read anything i think...but there are nice infos around :)

scorpion007
02-06-2007, 12:01 AM
I see, although adjusting the thickness of the frag's is something that even PArray can do, including setting the mat ID for the outside, edge, and backside faces. This was around even in Max 3/4 I think.

So I'm not sure what you win by using TP over PArray for fracturing, and PFlow for node based particles... Of course it would be nice if PFlow *at least* had PArray's basic fracturing built in. I did hear about some fracturing tools being available in some upcoming PFlow toolbox, but unless they are significantly better than PArray's, I don't like the idea of paying extra for something that I already have had in Max for many years.

Re that forum, looks nice, but its very strange about how restrictive it is. Why doesn't CGTalk make a subforum for TP? Perhaps more people might become aware of it if they had easier access to some information.

a13xr3d
02-06-2007, 01:14 AM
Are there any tutorials on how to use proper fraging? I want to rely on just PFlow right out of the 3ds 9 box before Cebas releases the updated TP.

superhypersam
02-06-2007, 08:58 PM
doing some heavy framentation work in Tp right now.

works great! getting nice solid breaks, and a procedural method is possible.

but..
to get nice frags u use the fragmentation node with precut objects, and set the frag to work based on smooothing with an 180 angel.

I use a script like "split it up" but keep the frags as 1 object, then apply the fragment node in TP.

the best reason to use this method is the shape collision node. allows for object based collisions! Much faster than reactor, and all based in 1 system.

For fragmenting stuff, TP is the best option!

superhypersam
02-06-2007, 09:16 PM
TP comes with several Frag tutorials and example files.

there not great, but explain the method.

If I get time I will make a tutorial!

cheers

PsychoSilence
02-06-2007, 11:38 PM
If I get time I will make a tutorial!



yeah! do so :) still waaaay to less TP tuts around...

kind regards

anselm

scorpion007
02-06-2007, 11:41 PM
Sounds interesting, but is this Shape Collision thing really more powerful than Reactor Fracture? I mean of course its great to have it part of the same system, but other than that, is it faster to simulate, and do you get at least the same amount of control?

PsychoSilence
02-06-2007, 11:44 PM
Sounds interesting, but is this Shape Collision thing really more powerful than Reactor Fracture? I mean of course its great to have it part of the same system, but other than that, is it faster to simulate, and do you get at least the same amount of control?

trust sam IT IS! imagine all the advantages of a particle system which is rule driven together with correct physics. to put that in a nut shell combine reactor and pflow (thatīs not really a comparison tho because flow is event driven and TP is rule based...) with better solving time and you got hardly what TP is able to do...

well, not easy to compare as i said! read the tech-spec at: http://www.cebas.com/products/products.php?UD=&PID=15
especially the AGEIA PhysX part, Shattering, Rule Based Destruction, Fragments and Bulp

cheers

anselm

a13xr3d
02-07-2007, 12:36 AM
I'll be able to work with thinking particles with 3ds 8, so any tutorial would be VERY much appreciated. Thanks for all of the hints.

What is the proper way to create objects so that they are ready for ANYTHING to basically break it? I'm trying to achieve a scene where there are lots of bullets flying everywhere, explosions, etc. For example there are going to be walls, and other massive solid objects, where I want the corners to eventually look like they were completely poulverized.

PsychoSilence
02-07-2007, 12:59 AM
I'll be able to work with thinking particles with 3ds 8, so any tutorial would be VERY much appreciated. Thanks for all of the hints.

What is the proper way to create objects so that they are ready for ANYTHING to basically break it? I'm trying to achieve a scene where there are lots of bullets flying everywhere, explosions, etc. For example there are going to be walls, and other massive solid objects, where I want the corners to eventually look like they were completely poulverized.

check out RayFire & Winchester:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=183&t=453224&page=1&pp=15

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=183&t=451701

cheers

anselm

a13xr3d
02-07-2007, 01:38 AM
Those are pretty sweet scripts. Right now I just want to learn how to create those effects using just particles, and a tp system.

scorpion007
02-07-2007, 02:13 AM
TP looks like a very powerful system, Is there a demo you can get? Their site is hard to navigate. How much is 1 license, etc?

Those scripts you linked look amazing! Especially that RayFire one. I guess you can still set the shot up manually, the script will just help you if you need many similar shots.

CapitanRed
02-26-2007, 07:59 AM
just a quick input to underline TP's powerful shape collision possibilities.
the bullettime short on my page is done with it. the the bullet is pushing the fragments out of the wall, and then the fragments rebreak in all this very small chucks. only these are pushed by a wind spacewrap.

I also did a helicopterscene one time, where a helicopter crashes into a wall. about 15000 paticles all collisionshape controled :D

supremepizza
02-26-2007, 09:30 AM
Of course it would be nice if PFlow *at least* had PArray's basic fracturing built in.
Check your MAXScript Reference there's a sample fragmentation script there. Just search "fragmentation" it's the first one.

MSun
02-27-2007, 12:24 AM
TP looks like a very powerful system, Is there a demo you can get? Their site is hard to navigate. How much is 1 license, etc?

i believe each liscense is about 1300 bucks, yep 1300 bucks 1295 actually :D

anyways, the TP is the only solution that i know of that will generate fragments and have kick ass edge detection for reactor-like interaction.

and TP is an absolute have for any advanced special effect, at least i think. and it could be hard to use a first due to it's so different from max's pFlow, but it's powerful!

a13xr3d
02-27-2007, 12:46 AM
Should I get TP for 3ds 8? Or should I just wait for the next release for r9? I'm on a tight deadline for a project, and I need a quick solution.

CGTalk Moderation
02-27-2007, 12:46 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.