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View Full Version : TSM for Lightwave Released...


jjburton
02-24-2003, 05:50 AM
:bounce:

http://www.rafhashvideotapes.com/setmacforlw.html

Now to decide on it or ACS 4....hmmmmm

LyonHaert
02-24-2003, 06:22 AM
wow, they're completely vague about TSM. so it 'installs' a 'skeleton,' but HOW??

btw, i got ACS4, and it rocks, for $90 (versus twice that).

check the demo (if you haven't, though I bet you have).

wgreenlee1
02-24-2003, 06:29 AM
.........................hmmmmmm......ini mini miny moe

d4rk
02-24-2003, 07:17 AM
I think I'd be more willing to give ACS4 a try before TSM cause of the price. Plus they seem to offer alot more info on it.

roguenroll
02-24-2003, 07:20 AM
i just got ACS4 , I like it

m_luscombe
02-24-2003, 07:24 AM
Oooh. So many choices. And none for the Mac.

I'm underwhelmed.

Suricate
02-24-2003, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by LyonHaert
wow, they're completely vague about TSM. so it 'installs' a 'skeleton,' but HOW??


I don't have any inside information about TSM, but this link is much more informative:

http://www.anzovin.com/setupmachine/setupmachinelw.html

Eugeny
02-24-2003, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by m_luscombe
Oooh. So many choices. And none for the Mac.

I'm underwhelmed.

Don't give up , with bit understanding of IK all these plug's are useless :)

duncandes
02-24-2003, 08:57 AM
I must say .. ACS 4 rulez 4 me ;-)

It has everything what I need..

best regards

Miyazaki
02-24-2003, 08:58 AM
Hmm... there`s no demo available for LW, only for Maya :hmm:

carnera
02-24-2003, 09:49 AM
both plugins are very interesting. ;) I mean the price for ACS4 is unbeatable!

i am just curious how that ik-fk-blending in TSM is solved.....

bye Andras
MBA-Studios

http://www.mba-studios.de

proton
02-24-2003, 02:11 PM
I'll be giving TSM a test drive here soon and I will report back what I find....it looks very promising!

jjburton
02-24-2003, 02:15 PM
Actually, if you're a student, the price is only $99, so only 10 dollars more...a bit more competitive.

Yeah, I've tried the demos on both. If you haven't tried them, they have a "human" rig, horse rig, and alien with four arms and forked tail rig for testing.

Horse Rig
http://www.rafhashvideotapes.com/lib/rafhashvideotapes/TSMLWhorse.zip

Alien Rig
http://www.rafhashvideotapes.com/lib/rafhashvideotapes/TSMLWalien.zip

Human Rig
http://www.rafhashvideotapes.com/lib/rafhashvideotapes/TSMLWscoundrel.zip

proton
02-24-2003, 02:18 PM
This online manual seems to explain alot:

http://www.anzovin.com/setupmachine/TSMLWmanual/index.html

proton
02-24-2003, 02:23 PM
Just ordered my copy....I'll set some time aside and get back with u guys!

mav3rick
02-24-2003, 02:29 PM
from what i have seen in demo rigs that they offer, ACS is HELL MUCH fast in feedback... i would say lukas involved much more time to optimize rigs to work reallly fast...... but that's is my persoanal oppinion ... let other judge and choose what's best...
my vote acs.. but i didn't check SETUP part of tsm ... if it is good than they need to mix acs and tsm and make acm advance character machine:) heheh

Shade01
02-24-2003, 02:36 PM
Did you see the steps involved to use it? I might as well rig it myself!

*Load a character mesh into Modeler.
*Import a full or partial TSM skeleton.
*Fit the skeleton to the character and add any custom skelegons for deformation.
*Move the model into Layout, change skelegons to bones, and reparent bones as needed.
*Flip/mirror the skeleton to create the other half. Do weight maps and deformation adjustment.
*Create the skeleton control setup.

I don't have to do half of that with ACS4! AND there is no unweighted option for TSM, AND there is no slider setup for the fingers!!!

Haven't tried it, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to buy this over ACS4, which was made specifically to enhance workflow in LW by someone who works in LW and enhanced some of LW's weaknesses. TSM is just a port and it feels like one.

jjburton
02-24-2003, 02:43 PM
Shade, I have not decided between the two...but,

In ACS4,

You don't have to move the skelegons in modeler to fit your mesh?

You don't have to convert the skelegons to bones and have the ability to reparent things?

Maybe you don't. I've watched the setup videos for both and neither one seems to be that much faster than the other in that department.

I do like the potential ability to do long necked things and tails right out of the bag with TSM.

For videos of the rig in action and some setup ones too, look at:

http://www.anzovin.com/setupmachine/setupmachinelw.html

On the other hand, I like ACS4's control set up a bit better.

...Trying to decide, trying to decide...

proton
02-24-2003, 03:10 PM
Solo model rigged with TSM:

http://www.spinquad.com/cgtalk/solo_tsm001.jpg


:bounce:

JMarc
02-24-2003, 03:16 PM
How does ACS4 compare to TSM when multiple characters are in one scene? Any problems with naming of goals or controllers?

jjburton
02-24-2003, 03:17 PM
Proton....


Can't wait for your thoughts on it...:)

proton
02-24-2003, 03:22 PM
I have to get back to work :thumbsdow

But I will give you guys a full report as soon as I can put TSM thru the testing course....

Infinity3d4life
02-24-2003, 04:07 PM
I'm no professional by any means, but it looks to me like this is way more work than ACS4.. I will wait until the big boys put it through the testing phases.. Til then i will stick with acs4..

LNT
02-24-2003, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Eugeny
Don't give up , with bit understanding of IK all these plug's are useless :)

1,000,000% true!

ACS4,TSM etc ...none of it would be necessary if we could re-adjust skelegons of our skeletal setups to fit a new mesh

messiah can do it and so should LW8

tOmdOr
02-24-2003, 04:31 PM
did a really short test with the demo human rig :
its a bit slow..(but not allot slower then the ACS4 demo rig)
the main problem with it is that the legs ik is not so stable (maybe you could raise the goal strengh but its weird that the demo rig have such a problem)
anyway it is a nice basic rig a bit cleaner than the ACS rig and the ik/fk hands looks realy nice..(it combines two diffrent skeletal structure for the fk /ik as far as i could understand) but why couldnt they combine the two sliders into one? and what about proxy pick that you could hide those sliders?

proton
02-24-2003, 04:36 PM
I noticed that Messiah is much cheaper now......the Bone Setup tab in Messiah is worth the price....and now I think you can get it for $300:

http://www.projectmessiah.com/

Roger Eberhart
02-24-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by proton
I noticed that Messiah is much cheaper now......the Bone Setup tab in Messiah is worth the price....and now I think you can get it for $300:

http://www.projectmessiah.com/

Yeah, but that's the old version. All the nifty new features, like NLA, are in Animate, which costs twice that. Since the output of Messiah is point level deformation, you can kiss off using Motion Mixer as well.

Shade01
02-24-2003, 05:48 PM
Hey jjburton, between the setup steps for ACS4 and TSM, it seems that TSM does not give sliders for semi automated finger control where ACS4 does.

For TSM, it says "Move the model into Layout, change skelegons to bones, and reparent bones as needed." Why would you need to reparent bones? I don't see why you should have to do that.

For TSM it says "Flip/mirror the skeleton to create the other half. Do weight maps and deformation adjustment." There should be an option for an unweighted mesh which there isn't. It says you could weight map as an option but it's not really an option unless you add holder bones.

You don't have to convert skelegons to bones in ACS4, it's part of the script, and you don't need to reparent anything because you can contain the complete rigging information in modeler with smartgons.

You still have to set the bones in the mesh and align everything though.

I'll have to wait to see a review on it to see what it does that isnt mentioned in the manual, but it doesnt seem like it's doing anything that takes advantage of specific features of lightwave.

DaveCG
02-24-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Roger Eberhart
Yeah, but that's the old version. All the nifty new features, like NLA, are in Animate, which costs twice that. Since the output of Messiah is point level deformation, you can kiss off using Motion Mixer as well.


One nice feature about Messiah Animate, you can use compose without having to "bake" any motions and transfer everything to Lightwave and go back and make any adjustments in compose!
It's pretty cool and a lot easier to use than Motion Mixer 2.

Dave

Julez4001
02-24-2003, 07:28 PM
Quick Messiah Demo cheat tutorial from ACS4.

Dl messiah:demo
I "cheated". I swipe the rig from ACS site.
http://acs.polas.net/acs/files/data/ACS4_weightmaps.zip

Open Lw, Load the rig.lwo
Parent in Place..
the rght/left hips and Upper body to pelvis/Torso Null.
save the lws
Open M:A / load lws
aadd ur character
go to setup model - add bone effect
Adjust character and link the bones to ur model's skeleton effect
Now animate

This is a quick way to test messiah:animate without rigging


Course you could always go to yahoo group and pull a rig down.

Tip:
MotionBlender effect is a Pose Mixer
F5 for dopesheet manager

BEST THING IN MESSIAH... you can load 20 IKs nd 10 variations of deformation effect and it move just as fast as it did with one of each. Try it.
Then when u get thru clone the entire character rig and it still fast.


Maya 4.5 :"update" connection was released 2 weeks ago. Though the Cinema4D is up a creek.

jjburton
02-24-2003, 07:49 PM
Shade...

Thanks for the info. I guess I still don't see why running the TSM script is so much different then running the ACS4 script for setup in Layout....but oh well.

Sometimes I like to reparent rigs so that if a character is pushing them selves up I can have the arm IK rigs not parented to the body in such a way as they move when the body moves, and then there are times when I want the arms to automatically move with the body. It just depends on the situation.

I'm just gonna wait and hear what the big boys say about it though:)

CIM
02-24-2003, 08:03 PM
No demo? :rolleyes:

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