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dragonfollower
01-26-2007, 07:16 AM
Can anyone tell me if there is a way to attach or link a bone to morph shapes?

I've got a character with a jaw bone that opens and shuts his mouth. But I also need to make a variety of expressions and mouth shapes for speech using the shape manager. So is there any way to link the two, so that, (for example) when he makes the 'O' shape, the jaw bone moves as well as the points?

If not, can anyone tell me the best way to do facial animation using the shape manager?

Sorry, just a little confused here.

Thanks,

-Brian

CoolCalb
01-26-2007, 11:14 AM
check out the "link with" option..

for example, select the jaw bone, hit <CTRL+K> to get into the bone's kinematics,
right click on it's Z rotation, and choose link with. An parameter connection window
will pop up, now you can "link" the Z rotation of the bone to what ever you like.

If you are not familiar with the Parameter Connection Editor, you should read about it
in the manual.

pooby
01-26-2007, 02:10 PM
The problem with only using 'link with' is that you don't want your jaw hard-linked to JUST the 'OO' as you might want other shapes that also influence the jaw movement. using 'link with' on it's own wont allow this.
A really good solution is to have a series of nulls parented to one another down a hierarchy
with the jaw at the end.
Each morph then affects just one of the nulls in the chain.
This will allow for offsets against each movment.

Ie, your 'OO' shape (by using 'linkwith or expressions' rotates null no 1 -which rotates the jaw and all the other nulls below it in the chain 'DOWN' to open the mouth.

your 'Smile' shape rotates null 2 and the other nulls below it in the chain 'UP' to close the mouth.

So, now, if you have a blend of these two, the jaw's rotation will be somewhere in between the two rotations, as null2 counteracts null1's rotations.

dragonfollower
01-26-2007, 04:31 PM
Awesome. I'll check out Parameter Connection Editor and try both of those ideas out. Thanks.

So in a typical shape animation set-up for the face, would the jaw control just be a morph shape then? I'm just wondering how most people are doing this.

Thanks again for the advice!

-Brian

yourteenidol
01-26-2007, 05:08 PM
Awesome. I'll check out Parameter Connection Editor and try both of those ideas out. Thanks.

So in a typical shape animation set-up for the face, would the jaw control just be a morph shape then? I'm just wondering how most people are doing this.

Thanks again for the advice!

-Brian


Yes, least that's how we do things round here.

EDIT -- OOPS, no that's not how we do things, I did not read your post carefully enough. We control the opening of the jaw with a bone; that is what I intended to say.

pooby
01-26-2007, 05:45 PM
Nope, least thats not what we do round here

pooby
01-26-2007, 05:54 PM
It's entirely up to you and dependant on what you wish to achieve for the face.

You could use spline curves, enveloping to nulls constraned to curves, Bones, Shapes, etc..

(I say, 'etc' but I can't actually think of any more right now)

The shape manager is pretty easy. It's all well explained in the XSI guides. I now use the old technique though, as It's easier to make assymetrical morphs from one symmetrical one. (copying to clusters on one side of face.. I don't see a way of doing this using the shape manager)

By the way.. I'd like to know from anyone if theres a way of clearing shape movement from certain affected points. This would make it even easier.

yourteenidol
01-26-2007, 05:56 PM
It's entirely up to you and dependant on what you wish to achieve for the face.


Exactly correct.

It's swings and roundabouts - to each his own.

dragonfollower
01-26-2007, 11:24 PM
Thanks for the info! I'm not much of a rigging guru, so I'll probably just stick with the Shape Manager. Good to know there are different ways of doing things though.

Thanks!

-Brian

mattmos
01-26-2007, 11:30 PM
By the way.. I'd like to know from anyone if theres a way of clearing shape movement from certain affected points. This would make it even easier.

There is this plugin from martin over on xsibase:

http://www.xsibase.com/tools/plugins.php?detail=1123

norvman
01-27-2007, 12:57 AM
A really good solution is to have a series of nulls parented to one another down a hierarchy
with the jaw at the end.

Hey Pooby how goes it? as usual you've come up with something cool...

But quesiton....

I'm assuming the nulls all exist in the same space... when you say... "down the hierarchy we are not talking a change in translation.... such that when null one rotates... it's in the same exact position as when null two rotates... "

or am I missing something...?

:shrug:

jham77
01-27-2007, 01:12 AM
I now use the old technique though, as It's easier to make assymetrical morphs from one symmetrical one. (copying to clusters on one side of face.. I don't see a way of doing this using the shape manager)

Dear Pooby,
I am sorry but can you elaborate this a little further?
I am currently using the technique I learnt from
mattmos' tutorial (http://www.mattmos.com/tutorials/shape_tut.html) and it works perfectly.
(Thanks to mattmos!)

And it seems like you are talking about other ways to
achive this. So I would love to hear more about the
technique you described above.

And also thanks for sharing the multi-null
technique. Although I have used a similar
set-up in eliminating gimbal-lock,
I never thought I could do as you described.

Thank you

-J

tuna
01-27-2007, 09:32 AM
Dear Pooby,
I am sorry but can you elaborate this a little further?
I am currently using the technique I learnt from
mattmos' tutorial (http://www.mattmos.com/tutorials/shape_tut.html) and it works perfectly.
(Thanks to mattmos!)

And it seems like you are talking about other ways to
achive this. So I would love to hear more about the
technique you described above.

And also thanks for sharing the multi-null
technique. Although I have used a similar
set-up in eliminating gimbal-lock,
I never thought I could do as you described.

Thank you

-J


Sorry to jump in here, but I believe pooby means the original method of creating shapes from the animation menu. (again, sorry if this isn't the method you're reffering to)
1) Duplicate the model and move some points around to create the shape.
2) Make a "left" and a "right" side cluster on the original model.
3) select either the left or right side cluster you've created, and do animate > deform > shape > select shape key and select the duplicated shape.

This should apply the shape only onto the cluster points you have selected. You can also modulate these shapes using weightmaps (as in the mattmos tutorial) as there will probably be a shape double transformation in the center when you use both sides (if the center line of verts is part of the shape).

pooby
01-27-2007, 11:23 AM
yes.. that's along the same lines as my technique. (probably slightly easier than my way)

About the null hierarchy thing. I can't take credit for that. It was in this tutorial dvd.

http://www.3dtutorial.com/xsi.php?detail=35

which has quite a few good ideas and concepts in it.

jham77
01-27-2007, 01:57 PM
Dear tuna and pooby

Thank you.
I thoght there was a simpler way to create
the end result of the mattmos tutorial.

Well, mattmos' method is simple in the
first place... so how silly of me to ask
such a question... sorry.

Thank you

-J

+
I know it's sort of OT here but,
Tuna, your rig looks very good.

It looks very responsive.
Are you using any script-operators
in your rig?

Am I right in assuming that script operators
slow down the rig?

so should I eliminate them completely?

tuna
01-27-2007, 04:33 PM
It looks very responsive.
Are you using any script-operators
in your rig?

Thanks, no there are no SCOPS, it was made mostly in XSI foundation, which doesn't let you create them.

norvman
01-27-2007, 05:57 PM
About the null hierarchy thing. I can't take credit for that. It was in this tutorial dvd.

http://www.3dtutorial.com/xsi.php?detail=35

which has quite a few good ideas and concepts in it.

aaaaaa okay... I have that DVD sitting on my desk here...

I need to go back and look at it again...

I currenlty am ingaged with ... Charbel Koueiks Rigging tutorial from 3dquakers but I have the first ACR dvd here that I also have been messing with...

Thanks pooby...

:thumbsup:

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