Where do I stand legally?

[Whipyo]

Hi Neil V,

Did the client give you a purchase order before you started the work or was it just a verbal agreement? Or do you have any email correspondence with them specifically stating that the job is to proceed.

If you only got a verbal, there is not a lot you can do. Any legal debate would come down to your word against theirs.

If you do have a purchase order, then they must pay or you can take them to court.

If the green light was given in a email then this is a completely grey area. You may be able to do something here but you would definately need proper advice from a lawyer.

I try not to start any work until I have some sort of document. Having said that, I still take the risk sometimes and start a job when I'm pretty sure that I'll get it.

If you don't get a desirable outcome here just put it down to a learning experience. I'm sure that this will never happen to you again. Even though its pretty frustrating to lose 3 days work, try not to burn your bridges with the client. Explain to them nicely that basically they owe you one and to consider you for future jobs. If you get any more work from them, be sure to charge a bit extra.

[PetrolUk]

it's a tough one really. I think if you talk to them and explain you worked on the test for 3 days and then come to an agreement on a fee. I'd say look I did 3 days but as its it was test I'm only charging you for a day which is fair enough and you'll at least get something. Otherwise in all honesty they won't pay you a thing.

A good practice to use on every job before starting any of the work even a test, is to give them a basic head of terms. This way you both have an clear understanding of what you're providing and what they're paying for.

Here's an example based on one of my lines of work which is outdoor video signage. It's a simple document which will state clearly what you're providing and how much and when you will be paid. It's very important to provent misunderstandings and also makes you more professional too.




Heads of Terms


Your Company name

The Client (“the Job”)





Services
XXXX to provide their professional design animation and consultancy services in relation to a maximum of XXXX animation sequences (“the Sequences”) to be included as part of the video content featured on the Sign (“the Services”).

Commencement Date - xx/xx/xx

Initial Fee - The sum of (put total here) plus Tax for 2 animated sequences, in accordance with specifications to be agreed (“the Initial Services”), such fee to be paid (put small figure to cover costs, say 20% for example) plus TAX on signature of these Heads of Terms, with the remaining (remaining amount obviously) of the aforesaid sum to be paid within thirty days of conclusion of the Initial Services.

Use - The product of all (your company) Services including, inter alia, the Initial Services and thereafter services shall be utilised solely and absolutely (where its to be used)

Further Sequences - The Client shall agree in good faith a timetable for the provision of the remaining Services from (Your Company), including the design of up to a further five Sequences for incorporation as part of the animated content displayed on and/or featured as part of the Sign. The fee for the balance of the Services, along with an applicable timetable for payment, shall be agreed between the parties in good faith and, in accordance with an already agreed total budget in regard to the provision of all the Services in the sum of (Total Budget) plus TAX.






………………………………………
My Name
An Authorised Signatory
for and on behalf of
Your Company





………………………………………
[ ]
An Authorised Signatory
for and on behalf of
Your Client

[Neil V]

Hi Whipyo and thanks for the quick response.

Unfortunately the client didn't give me a purchase order as up to that point it was only a verbal agreement. I've kept all of their email correspondence though and I was absolutely certain that the job was required by me. They emailed me the brief, I recommended certain things, I sent them a quotation, they replied to say they were happy with that, they then called to talk through the quote and I responded by informing them of a possible delivery date for the animation. So naievely I went ahead and did the job because I was aware of the deadline.

So on this one I guess I'm out of luck as I didn't have a final confirmation (other than verbal) and no purchase order.

As you say, I'll have to put it down to learning experience. It's a bit annoying though but hopefully by this post others can learn too. Always get written confirmation or a purchase order before doing any work!

It's hard not telling the client where to go though. They've really annoyed me about this.

Thanks once again for your invaluable reply.

Neil V

Hi Neil V,

Did the client give you a purchase order before you started the work or was it just a verbal agreement? Or do you have any email correspondence with them specifically stating that the job is to proceed.

If you only got a verbal, there is not a lot you can do. Any legal debate would come down to your word against theirs.

If you do have a purchase order, then they must pay or you can take them to court.

If the green light was given in a email then this is a completely grey area. You may be able to do something here but you would definately need proper advice from a lawyer.

I try not to start any work until I have some sort of document. Having said that, I still take the risk sometimes and start a job when I'm pretty sure that I'll get it.

If you don't get a desirable outcome here just put it down to a learning experience. I'm sure that this will never happen to you again. Even though its pretty frustrating to lose 3 days work, try not to burn your bridges with the client. Explain to them nicely that basically they owe you one and to consider you for future jobs. If you get any more work from them, be sure to charge a bit extra.

[Neil V]

Great stuff PetrolUK!

That's an extremely useful document you have there and I'll definitely be using that in future on all jobs. I suppose the lesson is a valuable one and I'd like to think others can learn from it.

Thanks again. Very much appreciated.
Neil V

it's a tough one really. I think if you talk to them and explain you worked on the test for 3 days and then come to an agreement on a fee. I'd say look I did 3 days but as its it was test I'm only charging you for a day which is fair enough and you'll at least get something. Otherwise in all honesty they won't pay you a thing.

A good practice to use on every job before starting any of the work even a test, is to give them a basic head of terms. This way you both have an clear understanding of what you're providing and what they're paying for.

Here's an example based on one of my lines of work which is outdoor video signage. It's a simple document which will state clearly what you're providing and how much and when you will be paid. It's very important to provent misunderstandings and also makes you more professional too.




Heads of Terms


Your Company name

The Client (“the Job”)





Services
XXXX to provide their professional design animation and consultancy services in relation to a maximum of XXXX animation sequences (“the Sequences”) to be included as part of the video content featured on the Sign (“the Services”).

Commencement Date - xx/xx/xx

Initial Fee - The sum of (put total here) plus Tax for 2 animated sequences, in accordance with specifications to be agreed (“the Initial Services”), such fee to be paid (put small figure to cover costs, say 20% for example) plus TAX on signature of these Heads of Terms, with the remaining (remaining amount obviously) of the aforesaid sum to be paid within thirty days of conclusion of the Initial Services.

Use - The product of all (your company) Services including, inter alia, the Initial Services and thereafter services shall be utilised solely and absolutely (where its to be used)

Further Sequences - The Client shall agree in good faith a timetable for the provision of the remaining Services from (Your Company), including the design of up to a further five Sequences for incorporation as part of the animated content displayed on and/or featured as part of the Sign. The fee for the balance of the Services, along with an applicable timetable for payment, shall be agreed between the parties in good faith and, in accordance with an already agreed total budget in regard to the provision of all the Services in the sum of (Total Budget) plus TAX.






………………………………………
My Name
An Authorised Signatory
for and on behalf of
Your Company





………………………………………
[ ]
An Authorised Signatory
for and on behalf of
Your Client

[Jannis]

Hi, I am sorry for your experience but since you are posting this with the hope that others should wise up from your misfortune, here is a bit of solid advice,

I will never work for anyone, in fact I will not touch my mouse on behalf of any employer before I have recieved a deposit. I have been burned on several occasions and this now has become a rule I observe without exception. A deposit is the only solid form of insurance you can have coupled with a signed agreement.

There have been a few posts recently here about freelancing and cases like yours paint a picture of the dangers of not covering your back before you take on a job.

Sorry for your predicament

[Neil V]

Hi Jannis and thanks.

Yep, seems like I've learned a valuable lesson that will not be repeated. My consolation though is that people here can read this and become more self-protective over such issues.

I'll just take it that I worked three days to give something back to the community ;o)

If it was a week or mores work then I'd be inconsolable. Thanks for your comments.

Neil V

Hi, I am sorry for your experience but since you are posting this with the hope that others should wise up from your misfortune, here is a bit of solid advice,

I will never work for anyone, in fact I will not touch my mouse on behalf of any employer before I have recieved a deposit. I have been burned on several occasions and this now has become a rule I observe without exception. A deposit is the only solid form of insurance you can have coupled with a signed agreement.

There have been a few posts recently here about freelancing and cases like yours paint a picture of the dangers of not covering your back before you take on a job.

Sorry for your predicament

[imashination]

Just regarding your situation, im afraid its likely to boil down to you having to bend over and take it. Personally I don't ask for money up front, nor do I get anything signed, but then the source of your clients will determine how much you trust them. Virtually every client I get is from word of mouth, usually a personal friend of someone I do business with quite a bit. This fact puts a reasonable bit of pressure on the new client not to screw me over.

Regardless of who I do work for I always require one simple thing, an email which confirms they wish me to begin work, which includes a reference to the agreed rate. For me this is all I need.

I never ever, under any circumstances will do spec work, or start working on tests before the job to give them an idea, or prove what I can do. I'll always work in however many days of test work I need into the agreement. They get charged from when I start working, and thats only when I have a clear "yes, start work, heres the agreed rates"

The only time I've ever been properly given the shaft was a month ago when I worked for an ad agency, but through another smaller studio. The communication between the agency and the studio I was in wasn't all clear sailing. The entire concept was just a massive rippoff of someone else's work anyway, almost as bad as the coke advert:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeBz21IDsfY

[marshalartist]

Try not to be too depressed about it, if you have bad luck this time around you might be more fortunate the next, you never know what is around the corner. You do not have to be too cynical though just a bit of common sense will surfice. I have been doing this for over forteen years now and I do not take deposits or create legal documents, but I do go out of my way to create a relationship with my clients where by they trust and depend on me. That way they use you again and again. Make sure what you are doing for the client is what they want, if you are quoting on an animation, break the price down if you have to, show them stills first before you animate and let them know how much it is to carry on or change direction. Be flexible but keep them informed, make sure it is worth taking on for the money if they have a limited budget. Getting money from a client is always the most frustrating part of business, I have to wait months sometime but I have never been let down yet.
If there is a possiblity that you could get more work from this client don't push it too much, but make sure you are compensated the next time around and build your extra costs into the job. Good Luck and stay positve !

[Neil V]

These are all good points and ones I will definitely be taking on board. I've learned a valuable lesson so in a way it was worth it. Now I've cooled down I'm not as down-hearted as I was.

Thanks again to all for the great advice.

Neil V

[vid2k2]

To add my 25 years of experience to this thread:

I've noticed that the designer / illustrator has had to become somewhat
legally literate these last 10-15 years as there are people out there that
prey on the unsuspecting talent.

Picking up a new client/contact is exciting and depressing. It means that
you need to start the whole "dating thing" all over again :) i.e.: do they use
purchase orders, are you paid by the owner or the bookkeeper, is the normal
turn around to get paid ( the hardest part of any project .... by far ) 30 days,
60 days, or, when the client pays them ?

Lately, there's been an approach-avoidance thing happening .... similar to your
situation .... where the project is quoted and put on hold. Thinking that you
might get a head start is very compelling, but, it will usually turn out to be to
your disadvantage.

Long story short, I, like Jannis, require a deposit that binds them to proceed
and show good faith on their part. Before the next approval stage, I require another
payment. At conclusion, I require the final payment. After an established track
record, things ease up a bit. Experience has shown me that even the best of client's
will see this as an opportunity to take advantage.

There are good clients out there and there are some questionable one's too.
It's a shame that things have degraded over these many years. Sometimes it takes
all the joy out of doing the work you love.

[Triker]

Unfortunately there are plenty of firms out there that will take advantage of you. Once you have an established relationship you can decide whether to trust them or not.

To protect yourself join the "Graphic Artist Guild." http://www.gag.org/

At a minimum buy "Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines."

[wesware]

Sorry man, that sucks.
I believe that your time and talent is valuable, but, on this one... just let it go. Not worth the headache and bitterness, imo.
In no time, you'll think to yourself "ahh I remember when that agency screwed me over, well that never happened again!" And then you'll laugh, then you cry, then you'll have some yogurt.

Honestly, you got a fairly cheap lesson there. Just bone up on some of the legalities of freelancing, Graphic Artists Guild has a good handbook. But, try not to get to militant and forceful with future clients. You'll scare the hell out of everybody. Oh yeah, and find honest clients. :)

[Joseppi]

Depending on the size of the company you are dealing with, you may not be dealing with the decision makers, or someone higher up killed a job the employees you were dealing with believed in.

Since this can happen due to corporate politics, it is good to always get some sort of written assurance to proceed, based on your estimate. It clarifies that some agent of the company asked you to proceed, so it can't be dismissed. Plus, it makes the people involved commit in some way that they are personally requesting you to do X.

If NOBODY will reply they are acting to authorize me to proceed, I won't jump the gun and work without some sort of confirmed request to proceed. Whether you enforce requiring a deposit depends on your tolerance for risk, but at least get a confirmation from someone at the company in writing.. email even.

A good point about deposits and/or confirmations of terms and to proceed, is the ABSENCE of either is a warning sign you shouldn't proceed past. It helps flush out the weasels... Someone who is inclined to stiff you will not be likely to front your deposit, or commit to having you proceed. It's better to not start the work until they commit then to do custom work, and have them walk away.

If some agent of the company replies to have to proceed under the price and terms outlined, it is harder for company politics to disavow your work. In the future, the fact an employee representing the company gave you approval to proceed and you worked in good faith, is generally a contract. An offer to provide goods or service for a price, and the offer being accepted. It's hard to deny that is there is a basic email trial.

We all learn from prior experiences, and some have gotten a LOT further into projects before finding they were stiffed, so while painful, it is probably a lessen most have to experience to make it real at some point, and you are not likely to repeat the same sequence.

Don't just think of the loss, think of it as being more experienced!

: )

Joe

[Neil V]

Joseppi, wise words indeed. I'm actually quite philosophical about it now. Spent an hour or two being a bit peed off with the whole thing but the best thing I can do now is take this as a lesson. It's not like I took on a whole weeks project or even more - three days to earn a good lesson is well spent in my opinion. And, as stated previously, if this lesson can make others aware then I'm pretty happy to have learnt it.

Neil V

Depending on the size of the company you are dealing with, you may not be dealing with the decision makers, or someone higher up killed a job the employees you were dealing with believed in.

Since this can happen due to corporate politics, it is good to always get some sort of written assurance to proceed, based on your estimate. It clarifies that some agent of the company asked you to proceed, so it can't be dismissed. Plus, it makes the people involved commit in some way that they are personally requesting you to do X.

If NOBODY will reply they are acting to authorize me to proceed, I won't jump the gun and work without some sort of confirmed request to proceed. Whether you enforce requiring a deposit depends on your tolerance for risk, but at least get a confirmation from someone at the company in writing.. email even.

A good point about deposits and/or confirmations of terms and to proceed, is the ABSENCE of either is a warning sign you shouldn't proceed past. It helps flush out the weasels... Someone who is inclined to stiff you will not be likely to front your deposit, or commit to having you proceed. It's better to not start the work until they commit then to do custom work, and have them walk away.

If some agent of the company replies to have to proceed under the price and terms outlined, it is harder for company politics to disavow your work. In the future, the fact an employee representing the company gave you approval to proceed and you worked in good faith, is generally a contract. An offer to provide goods or service for a price, and the offer being accepted. It's hard to deny that is there is a basic email trial.

We all learn from prior experiences, and some have gotten a LOT further into projects before finding they were stiffed, so while painful, it is probably a lessen most have to experience to make it real at some point, and you are not likely to repeat the same sequence.

Don't just think of the loss, think of it as being more experienced!

: )

Joe

[Neil V]

Wes, thanks for the sympathy. And I totally agree about letting it go. I also agree that at least getting a hold of the Graphics Artists Guild handbook will be a step in the right direction.

Right, I'm off to get myself an overly large tub of yogurt ;o)

Neil V

Sorry man, that sucks.
I believe that your time and talent is valuable, but, on this one... just let it go. Not worth the headache and bitterness, imo.
In no time, you'll think to yourself "ahh I remember when that agency screwed me over, well that never happened again!" And then you'll laugh, then you cry, then you'll have some yogurt.

Honestly, you got a fairly cheap lesson there. Just bone up on some of the legalities of freelancing, Graphic Artists Guild has a good handbook. But, try not to get to militant and forceful with future clients. You'll scare the hell out of everybody. Oh yeah, and find honest clients. :)

[Neil V]

Book ordered! Thanks for the link.

Neil V

Unfortunately there are plenty of firms out there that will take advantage of you. Once you have an established relationship you can decide whether to trust them or not.

To protect yourself join the "Graphic Artist Guild." http://www.gag.org/

At a minimum buy "Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines."

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