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View Full Version : Painter issue...or is it poor use of layers on my part?


Gaffer
01-11-2007, 04:07 PM
I am doing a watercolor with many layers in Painter 9.5. I am running into a problem (no pun intended) with brushstrokes turning into what look like white selection boxes. This doesn't happen with every stroke, but it seems to happen where paint from one layer (say a tree) overlaps paint from another layer (say grass near the tree). I have done some overpainting, where I will wash over one layer with another layer so I can control the amount of tinting - I am wondering if this is part of the problem.

Anyone else have this issue, and know of a work around? I am currently considering just merging all the layers.

Thanks in advance, and Happy painting.

DMarkwick
01-14-2007, 03:30 PM
Have you tried drying the canvas? I have no idea if Painter will treat a dried layer any different to a wet layer as far as displaying higher layers go but it might be worth a try.

Assuming you've finished with the to-be-dried layer that is of course.

Jinbrown
01-14-2007, 04:36 PM
Hi,

You don't say whether you're using Digital Watercolor or Watercolor and which brush variants you're using (by exact names).

In order to attempt duplicating your problem to figure out what's going on, that information is necessary.

Without that information, all I can think of is it might be a display problem or memory problem. Try saving your file in RIFF format, closing Painter, rebooting, and with all other programs closed, launch Painter again and see if that helps.

Warning: If you're using Digital Watercolor, be sure to save the file in RIFF format before drying the Digital Watercolor paint. It can't be undried after the fact and it does make a difference whether the paint remains wet or it's dried.

Gaffer
01-14-2007, 10:11 PM
Sorry,

I am using regular watercolors with the diffuse camel mostly, as well as some with the simple watercolor round. I have not used any effects or filters anywhere in the painting. I am not working on the canvas at all, and I have not dried any layers. I have been saving in Riff format, and have saved and revisited the file to do more work. I did find that if I deleted a layer that was underneath it would take care of the problem...of course I can't do that with all layers because I don't want to lose them.

I will try drying the layers and see if that helps. I think where I really went wrong was in my planning for this piece. It was just supposed to be a quick study to do for a painting with traditional materials, but the more I got into it the more I started working it up and I had not planned out what parts to layer together etc. So I ended up with layers scattered everywhere.... however, I don't think it should be doing this.

Thanks for the suggestions, and for the information - I was not aware that some brush variants could be a problem.

Jinbrown
01-15-2007, 03:42 PM
Sorry,

I am using regular watercolors with the diffuse camel mostly, as well as some with the simple watercolor round.


The closest Watercolor variant in the default Painter IX Painter Brushes brush library to what you describe as "simple watercolor round" is the Simple Round Wash variant so I'll assume that's what you mean.


I have not used any effects or filters anywhere in the painting. I am not working on the canvas at all, and I have not dried any layers.


Since you're using Watercolor variants, you would not be able to work on the Canvas since they only work on Watercolor Layers.

I don't think using the Layers palette menu command Dry Watercolor Layer will have any effect related to your problem (but I could be wrong).


I have been saving in Riff format, and have saved and revisited the file to do more work. I did find that if I deleted a layer that was underneath it would take care of the problem...of course I can't do that with all layers because I don't want to lose them.


Without knowing what's on each Layer and especially what the deleted Layer contained, it's hard to know why deleting it helped.


I will try drying the layers and see if that helps. I think where I really went wrong was in my planning for this piece. It was just supposed to be a quick study to do for a painting with traditional materials, but the more I got into it the more I started working it up and I had not planned out what parts to layer together etc. So I ended up with layers scattered everywhere.... however, I don't think it should be doing this.


I tested the Watercolor's Diffuse Camel and Simple Round Wash on different Layers and used the Diffuse Camel variant on two Layers. I was not able to reproduce your problem, though.

The only way I can get white on the Watercolor Layer is to change its Composite Method to Default. Then I see white edges around the brush strokes where they pass over underlying color. Watercolor Layers are automatically set to Composite Method Gel to produce the intended look of transparent watercolor.

Is that possibly what happened, you changed the Composite Method to Default? If so, just change it back to Composite Method Gel and it should solve the problem.


Thanks for the suggestions, and for the information - I was not aware that some brush variants could be a problem.

Yep, some brush variants, if not used as intended, can present problems. There's a lot to learn about both Painter's brush variants and Layers and how they need to be used.

I hope the problem was only the inappropriate Layer Composite Method since that's easy to fix.

If not, I can't think what's causing it but if something comes to mind, I'll let you know.



..................

Gaffer
01-15-2007, 07:12 PM
Okay,


I tried drying each watercolor layer. As I dried each layer the boxes that were semi-transparent/white became more solidly white and dramatically more apparant...some appeared that I had not noticed before. All of them were different sizes and proportions..based on the length of the stroke I had used I think.

All watercolor layers were set to 'Gel' and 'Ignore', and all watercolor layers were set to 100 percent opacity with no 'pick up underlying color'.

Yes, simple round wash was the correct watercolor variant..along with the diffuse camel.

One thing I forgot to mention was that I have a felt tip pen drawing on layer 1 set at 15 percent opacity as a reference drawing...however erasing lines under where this graphic anomaly is occuring does not help any. I have also used an eraser varient or two...the regular 'eraser', 'block' eraser, and 'bleach' or 'soft bleach' I think. I think this is the first time I have ever seen this happen using watercolors.

Thanks for the ideas.

EDIT: I also tried dropping all layers after drying them and it did not help either.

Gaffer
01-15-2007, 07:33 PM
I tried wetting different watercolor layers and I am having the same results as when I dried them - rectangles popping into view. In a dark blue portion of grass, for example, I get this large rectangle popping into view after drying or wetting the layer..the rectangle is very light, but I can see some of the other colors underneath the blue layer through the rectangle.


Now, if I undo the dry, or the wetting of the layer, it goes back to looking like it should, BUT if I try to paint over that same area with watercolors the rectangle forms around my stroke.

If I leave that same area wet or dry I can begin to paint within the lightened rectangle area with my watercolors and it does not repeat the defect. If I continued to paint at that point I could eventully cover the lightened rectangle area with paint again without the defect occuring around my stroke. Very odd.

Gaffer
01-15-2007, 07:56 PM
I opened the original felt tip marker drawing and tried to reproduce this problem and I have not been able to. I have tried reordering layers, locking layers and painting on layers above and below them (I did a lot of locking and unlocking..which shouldn't have been an issue, but I tried everything), erasing with the different watercolor erasers and painting over on the same layer and layers above it etc. using the same brush variants - no graphical errors.


<shrug>

Jinbrown
01-15-2007, 10:48 PM
Sorry, this was a duplicate post.

.................

Jinbrown
01-15-2007, 10:49 PM
Hi,

Another thought:

Did you buy Painter IX and later install the Painter IX.5 Update?

If so, did you:




Download the Painter IX 9.1 Update and the Painter IX.5 Update,
Uninstall Painter IX,
Manually delete any remaining folders and files in the Painter IX.5 application/program folder and in the Painter IX.5 User folder,
(I usually reboot at this stage to be sure everythings as "clean" as possible.)
Install Painter IX, then
First install lthe Painter IX 9.1 Update and, without launching the program, install the Painter IX.5 Update, then
Hold down the Shift key while launching Painter IX.5 the first time?
If you didn't do everything listed above, in that order, it might be the cause of your problems.

Important: Before following the steps listed above, back up your Painter IX User folder's Brushes folder and the Painter IX.5 application/program folder's Brushes folder so you can restore custom brush categories and brush variants and extra brushes you've added to the new Painter IX User folder and Painter IX.5 application/program folder's Brushes folder.



.................

Gaffer
01-16-2007, 12:39 AM
Hi,

Another thought:

Did you buy Painter IX and later install the Painter IX.5 Update?

If so, did you:

Download the Painter IX 9.1 Update and the Painter IX.5 Update,
Uninstall Painter IX,
Manually delete any remaining folders and files in the Painter IX.5 application/program folder and in the Painter IX.5 User folder,
(I usually reboot at this stage to be sure everythings as "clean" as possible.)
Install Painter IX, then
First install lthe Painter IX 9.1 Update and, without launching the program, install the Painter IX.5 Update, then
Hold down the Shift key while launching Painter IX.5 the first time?
If you didn't do everything listed above, in that order, it might be the cause of your problems.

Important: Before you Uninstall, reinstall, then install the two Updates, back up your Painter IX User folder's Brushes folder and the Painter IX.5 application/program folder's Brushes folder so you can restore custom brush categories and brush variants and extra brushes you've added to the new Painter IX User folder and Painter IX.5 application/program folder's Brushes folder.



.................

LOL...this is why I still use real paint and real brushes. Thanks for the tip. Yeah, I bought painter XI and then installed 9.5..can't remember if I installed 9.1 or just skipped from 9.0 directly to the 9.5 patch. I remember wondering if I should patch it in steps or just skip it or not..but I can't remember how I ended up doing it. I do know that I didn't do anything near to what you have described above however. I seem to remember holding the shift key when relaunching for the first time..I think that was in the patch notes to do that...

Just to be sure I got this right:

1.) Reinstall painter IX from CD over the top of current XI.5 version on my HD.
2.) Install 9.1
3.) Install 9.5
4.) Uninstall Painter (delete everything out of the apps and user folders for Painter - I am not worried about saving variants of mine..I don't have many)

5.) Reboot (possibly defrag?)

5.) Install painter
6.) Install 9.1
7.) Install 9.5 and hold shift on first launch of app.


This is obviously no where near as expensive a program as Photoshop, but it is a higher end app than most junk out there..you would think that they could make this app patch a little easier without bugs...sheesh.

Jinbrown
01-16-2007, 01:36 AM
LOL...this is why I still use real paint and real brushes. Thanks for the tip. Yeah, I bought painter XI and then installed 9.5..can't remember if I installed 9.1 or just skipped from 9.0 directly to the 9.5 patch. I remember wondering if I should patch it in steps or just skip it or not..but I can't remember how I ended up doing it. I do know that I didn't do anything near to what you have described above however. I seem to remember holding the shift key when relaunching for the first time..I think that was in the patch notes to do that...

Just to be sure I got this right:

1.) Reinstall painter IX from CD over the top of current XI.5 version on my HD.
2.) Install 9.1
3.) Install 9.5
4.) Uninstall Painter (delete everything out of the apps and user folders for Painter - I am not worried about saving variants of mine..I don't have many)

5.) Reboot (possibly defrag?)

5.) Install painter
6.) Install 9.1
7.) Install 9.5 and hold shift on first launch of app.


This is obviously no where near as expensive a program as Photoshop, but it is a higher end app than most junk out there..you would think that they could make this app patch a little easier without bugs...sheesh.

No!

Don't, for heaven's sake, try to memorize the steps.

Save this thread to your hard drive and print it, then do not follow your own steps!

Follow each and every step I listed above, in order, and don't add any steps.


After everthing's done, it won't hurt to run Defrag. That should be done on a regular basis anyway, but don't try to insert that in between the steps I listed. It's likely to get you all bolloxed up again (like the steps you tried to remember and didn't remember right).

......................

Gaffer
01-16-2007, 03:01 PM
Okay, I am a bit confused on one thing:

In the first bullet point of the steps you say to download the painter XI 9.1 update and the painter XI 9.5 update. But in your Important paragraph you say: "Before you Uninstall, reinstall, then install the two Updates..." that is where I got the idea that you wanted me to install painter XI from disc over my current painter XI 9.5 version. Could you clarify this area for me, everything else I understand.

Thanks for your patience.

Jinbrown
01-17-2007, 01:49 AM
Okay, I am a bit confused on one thing:

In the first bullet point of the steps you say to download the painter XI 9.1 update and the painter XI 9.5 update. But in your Important paragraph you say: "Before you Uninstall, reinstall, then install the two Updates..." that is where I got the idea that you wanted me to install painter XI from disc over my current painter XI 9.5 version. Could you clarify this area for me, everything else I understand.

Thanks for your patience.

Hi Gaffer,

This stuff can be confusing. Sorry for adding to your confusion.

I've edited my post above (the one that includes the steps to get Painter IX, the Painter IX 9.1 Update, and the Painter IX.5 Update installed properly) to change the Important: paragraph below the list of steps. Now I hope that paragraph is a bit more clear.

...............

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