Materials - ridiculous slowdowns

[boxy]

I have no solution, but I'd also be very interested in one.
Cheers
Boxy

[Tank_3D_Attack]

Are you using external HD's? Do your preferences link to that external HD? I noticed that this can slow down things dramatically. Shouldn't be that way. However, this is just my observation. I am not quite sure why you are getting this kind of "lag". Maybe somebody else has input on that?


Thomas

[kromekat]

Thomas,

No this all on internal SATA 7200 HDs - so that should not be an issue.

When this was mentioned before, there seemed to be a Mac, or even just a G5 bias - is this the case? - does anybody on a PC, or an intel based Mac have the same issues?

I am on a dual 2.5Ghz G5 running 10.4 and R10, but it happened in R9.5/6 as I remember also.

Cheers
Adam

[boxy]

I am on a dual 2.7 PPC OsX10.4, R10, so pretty much the same setup. The lag has always been there since R8 when I started using C4D.
Cheers
Boxy

[3dj]

Thomas,

No this all on internal SATA 7200 HDs - so that should not be an issue.

When this was mentioned before, there seemed to be a Mac, or even just a G5 bias - is this the case? - does anybody on a PC, or an intel based Mac have the same issues?

I am on a dual 2.5Ghz G5 running 10.4 and R10, but it happened in R9.5/6 as I remember also.

Cheers
Adam
I can't believe this was just posted, I came here to look around to see if anyone else if having this problem with r10. It is miserable for sure. I am on a Mac Pro 2.66 4g ram, seems to mainly be psd's for me. Today, I flattened a psd and reimported it and it cleaned it up a bit, but man, I have had this problem a couple of times, brings C4D to a crawl. I was hoping to see some kind of an update to download to fix this.

-Jim

[unseenthings]

Don't have any problems like that on my PC... I might suggest careful checking of which directories you have listed in your preferences as texture paths -- if there are a lot of directories (and/or a lot of files in them) -- I know it can take a while as it's trying to search through all those. Other than that, can't help, sorry.

[kromekat]

But if the files related to the materials are all in the same directory as the model, then why would it search beyond that in that instance?

Adam

[Rich-Art]

Yes I have the same problem. I find this R10 very slow with a lot of things.


I noticed, and I'm not alone with this, is that if you have some Xpresso setup etc. and you select a point on your mesh, it takes a wile before the viewport updates.
You can see the selected point, but before the axis jumps to the selected point you must wait a little time or move the viewport.
This is also for Poly selections and edge selections.
If I turn of the "use expressions" option, then the problem is over.
It has nothing to do with E-OpenGL. If I turn that of, the problem still exist.

I have wrote an Email to Maxon support, But they could not help me.
The told me that they forward this problem to the developers.
Although I get the feeling that they don't believe me or do not know what to do with this problem.

If anyone has some time and want to take a look at the problem file to see if you get the same problems, be my guest. I will attach it with this post.
It is a very simple setup. Nothing fancy, or complicated.
It opens within the point mode and the "use Expressions" option on.
Try to select a few points on the mesh.
Turn of the "use expressions" option and try to select a few points and notice the different.

Anyway, I hope that there are more members that have problems with this.
On C4DCafe, there are more members that have the same problem with this.


Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

[vid2k2]

If you use the live selection tool(arrow in circle), points are slower
to react for some reason than using the model tool ( 4 arrows) at times.

When that happens I usually use the model tool with shift key depressed.

Other times this is not a problem ???? I have no idea, I just work with it.

[Jorge Arango]

If anyone has some time and want to take a look at the problem file to see if you get the same problems, be my guest. I will attach it with this post.
It is a very simple setup. Nothing fancy, or complicated.
It opens within the point mode and the "use Expressions" option on.
Try to select a few points on the mesh.
Turn of the "use expressions" option and try to select a few points and notice the different.

Anyway, I hope that there are more members that have problems with this.
On C4DCafe, there are more members that have the same problem with this.


Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

I can confirm. After selecting a new point, it turned orange instantly but, after 4.5 minutes (I got tired of waiting), the axis was still at the original point. With expressions off, everything is just fine.

G5 2.0 with 2.5 G of RAM ATI 9600.


Jorge Arango

[Jorge Arango]

If you use the live selection tool(arrow in circle), points are slower
to react for some reason than using the model tool ( 4 arrows) at times.

When that happens I usually use the model tool with shift key depressed.

Other times this is not a problem ???? I have no idea, I just work with it.

I can confirm this too, when selecting the new point with the move tool, the axis goes to the new point instantly.


Jorge Arango

[unseenthings]

I played with Rich's scene and I found that disabling the Hypernurbs and the Skin object will speed things right up like they ought to be. It seems to be the viewport updating that is lagging... select whatever, and then rotate the view (or whatever) and it instantly jumps to where it ought to be, even without disabling those...

[Darter]

Try to select a few points on the mesh.
Turn of the "use expressions" option and try to select a few points and notice the different.
I'm using a PC and see no delay when dragging any number of points in the test scene with expressions enabled. I'd suggest that this was a Mac issue except ascent seems to be experiencing delays with this scene on a PC.

[Rantin Al]

Seems to me that the Expressions are the problem.
'Freeze' with Point Selection Tool but OK when selecting with the Move Tool.
Disable Expressions and both tools work fine.

There appears to be some re-draw issue. Moving the window forces an update.
I'm on a G5 Quad with GeForce 6600.

HTH, Alan.

[Rich-Art]

Strange.. I have a PC. And it works not good.
3DKiwi had the same problems with this scene as I have.
The maxon support had no problems in the first place, later I got an other E-mail and they told me that they now have the same problem too. But only when the E-Open GL is turned on.
For me it woks if I turn off the "use Expressions" option.
As soon as I turn it on, the lag is back.
Could it be a driver issue? I use the NGo driver.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

[Darter]

My graphics card is a GeForce 6600 GT with the NVIDIA 84.21 drivers. Definitely no problem here with the test scene. It would be interesting to hear whether anyone with the same setup is experiencing problems.

[SilverCity]

On a 2.0 G5, X800 XT card. Same problem with point selection tool. However, rectangle, lasso or polygon selection tools work fine.

[Theropoda]

Same problem here with Rich-Arts File. Only with the life selection tool, other selection tools show the editor update immediately.

Working on a PC with 3,0 GHz, 1GB RAM and a Radeon X 850 PRO.
I've had the same problem before with a PC 2,66 GHz, 1 GB Ram, Radeon 9800 Pro.

Günter

[Rich-Art]

Thanks guys.
I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem.
It must be a bug or something.
When I use the rectangle selection tool, it works indeed, no lagging.
It is the life selection tool that causes the problem.
I hope Maxon will read this thread as well.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :thumbsup:

[kromekat]

Back on the Materials issue...

It seems that there might be bigger issues with the Material Preview portion of Cinema 4D - after reading an email from Robert Templeton (developer of interPoserPro), who reported that he had experienced some crashes (not related to his plugin) which the bug report specifically pointed to the PreviewMaterial module in R10.

Maybe the guys at Maxon should check out the code since it seems to be such a problem for many of us!?

Adam

[Rantin Al]

Sorry about the diversion of your thread Adam.

I had an issue with the Content Browser which had a stack of files (plus .bak) and it seemed to freeze on a particular folder.
It turned out the Browser was generating thumbnail previews of every file.
Could this be related to your texture files in the one folder?

There are several Preference Options for the CB. Try unchecking or limiting the Render/ Preview options. Also try the options under the CB > View > Various Formats.

HTH, Alan.

[marshalartist]

I am on a pro mac and have not noticed any unusual material preview problems, but I do get other problems where there is definitely a lag, for instance in a medium to complex scene when I highlight a field in an input box on the AM to enter a new value, I have to wait for the selection to catch up with the cursor on screen before I can enter a new value. This happens quite a lot and gets frustrating. Also I still have disappearing objects when I use undo, even after a clen install, I am hoping all these little niggles go away after a point release.

[JDP]

I get the same problem with Rich-art's file on PC, I do not have enhanced OGL switched on but have isolated the problem to constraints, if you turn them off in the character menu the problem goes away, can anyone else confirm this?

[unseenthings]

I'm using a PC and see no delay when dragging any number of points in the test scene with expressions enabled.
I don't think the issue was so much with dragging points as it was waiting for the cursor to update itself when you were *selecting* points.

FWIW, the only time I've had significant slowdowns in R10 is when I have a *bunch* of tags on a item... 400 selections tags, for example, will drag the OM to it's knees. This wasn't the case in R9. And before you ask, it was because I merged a whole bunch of objects that each had a selection tag. :-)

While I'm unhappy about some of these things, I'm still holding out hope that they're symptoms of major re-writing going on underneath (which is what I suspect) that will show up in spectacular new features in R10.x

Adam: Have you tried removing some of the tex paths to see if that makes a difference?

[Theropoda]

if you turn them off in the character menu the problem goes away, can anyone else confirm this?

yes, with constraints turned off everything works fine.

Günter

[Kuroyume0161]

Adam has asked me to stop by and add my experience. And luckily, I am able to provide evidence just created. I started loading Daz's Millenium Dragon (w/textures) in R10 using my plugin and as it was filling in the materials, it crashed. Immediately went to R9.6 and did the exact same thing - no crash (a nice screen shot below). Note that there are no differences in my material handling code whatsoever between R9.6 and R10! That doesn't mean that the SDK access hasn't changed inbetween, but it means that compatibility has been thrown out the window with dire consequences if so.

Here's the essential part of the BugReport.txt file - note the thread causing the exception and the ThreadName under "Variables":

CINEMA_4D_Crash_Report_WINDOWS
{
ComputerInfo
{
OS_Type = WIN32 NT
OS_Version = major 5, minor 1, build 2600
Number_of_processors = 4
Processor_Type = GenuineIntel, stepping 7, model 2, instruction family 15
Processor_Name = Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.66GHz
Processor_Features = FPU, MMX, SSE, SSE2, CLFLUSH, RDTSC, CMPXCHG8B, CMOV,
More_Processor_Features = VME, DE, PSE, MSR, PAE, MCE, APIC, SEP, MTRR, PGE, MCA, PAT, PSE36, FXSR, DS, SS, TM,
Graphics_card = Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation, renderer: GeForce FX 5900 Ultra/AGP/SSE2, version: 2.0.0
}
ApplicationInfo
{
CINEMA_4D_Version: 10.008
Memory(Global): 135655949
Memory(GlobalPeak): 206379945
Memory(Total): 1332
Memory(Current): 389
Memory(LowMemCnt): 0
}
Opened Scenes
{
Active Scene: 015EFE34 "Untitled 1"
}
Exception
{
ExceptionNumber = 0xC0000005
ExceptionText = "ACCESS_VIOLATION"
Address = 0x00AAAE85
Thread = 3916
Last_Error = 0x000000B7
}
Call_Stacks
{
Call_Stack_Thread_3916
{
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00AAAE85
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00AAAA8A
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00AAA7F2
newman.cdl: 087AA75F
newman.cdl: 0879E0C2
newman.cdl: 0878970C
CINEMA 4D.exe: 006DFD8E
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0046BDD3
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0046BBA3
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00472D04
CINEMA 4D.exe: 006E3112
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0043F691
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00474E8F
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00473260
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0046A1E4
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0043F691
newman.cdl: 08789898
CINEMA 4D.exe: 006DFD8E
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0046BDD3
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0046BBA3
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0043F691
CINEMA 4D.exe: 006E4A37
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0046A1E4
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0043F691
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00448EE0
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0043F6F6
CINEMA 4D.exe: 004492E6
xtensions.cdl: 08A5ED68
xtensions.cdl: 08A4FBFE
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00AD342E
CINEMA 4D.exe: 0056128E
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00AC4EF0
CINEMA 4D.exe: 00B867DE
kernel32.dll: 7C80B683 GetModuleFileNameA
Variables
{
ThreadName = BaseMaterial PreviewThread
Arg|DocumentOLE|Name =
Arg|GeLoadBitmap|Name =
Arg|GeLoadBitmap|Frame = 0
Arg|GeSaveBitmap|Name =
Arg|LoadDocument|Name =
Arg|LoadDocument|Flags = 0
Arg|CoffeeFile|Name =
Arg|CoffeeLine|Line = 0
}
...
}

And, R9.6 without the crash:

http://www.kuroyumes-developmentzone.com/referenced/DragonR96.jpg

[bdjones]

I can confirm. After selecting a new point, it turned orange instantly but, after 4.5 minutes (I got tired of waiting), the axis was still at the original point. With expressions off, everything is just fine.
G5 2.0 with 2.5 G of RAM ATI 9600.
Jorge Arango

I found if you select points and wait you *will* wait but if you select points then pass the cursor over where the axis was waiting it will immediately jump to the selected points

[rsquires]

The slow down I get is when I create a first material. Using the color channel I click on the texture triangle to open the procedural list and it takes a good 2 secs on the Mac Pro for the list to appear, with the addition of a spinning beach ball on my G5 Dual 2.

This does not happen at all in 9.6

What gives?

regards

Rich

[Carl007]

I also get the spinning ball when I for the first time click the triangle for a channel, after that I do not have any lags, regarding materials.

OSX, Mac Pro

[Per-Anders]

Hey there Kuroyume0161, did you send in that crashlog to Maxon (or if not could you include the whole txt file and other files or zip here at all?).

[Kuroyume0161]

I sent in the previous BugReport for the same type of crash.

Robert

[jkirk01]

The slow down I get is when I create a first material. Using the color channel I click on the texture triangle to open the procedural list and it takes a good 2 secs on the Mac Pro for the list to appear, with the addition of a spinning beach ball on my G5 Dual 2.

This does not happen at all in 9.6

What gives?

regards

Rich

I didn't see any PC users reply to this, so I will add my experience is quite the same on a PC clicking the texture triangle. I don't crash necessarilly, but annoying to be sure. BTW, my video card isn't supported by eOpenGL so it's disabled. When is the fix'm up point release? :shrug:

[kiwi]

Opening files and changing material settings was taking so long I just went back to 9.6 until it gets fixed.


Baking normal maps is also a problem in 10 and fine in 9.6...{or much better}



Have sent multiple crash logs into support. {OSX 10.4.8 G5 dual x800 xt 4G}

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