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HarlequiN
02-18-2003, 07:46 AM
Something I've been tinkering with over the past few months. Fed up with it now, so it's time to call it done.

I didn't do the model, that's by Bonemonkey, just the texture is mine.
http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/qbranch/images/inprogress/beastfinal_sml.jpg
Bigger Image (http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/qbranch/images/inprogress/beastfinal_lrg.jpg)

Annuostivix
02-18-2003, 08:36 AM
hey good stuff. your texturing could use some work on the chest and the back of the hair, if you ask me. but not a lot. i dont know where els,e I'm more tired than bumble bees look. God job, you shouldnt call it quits yet though, there's always rom for improvement. =) oh, the wirsts. yeah. the bands, I like them but not as much as I could. Define them a little more? Make it look like leather was wrapped around. okees :D

HyPer
02-18-2003, 12:55 PM
the only note worthy thing i can spot on this texture is the body hair, but that as iv come to understand is nothing more than a photoshop hightmap filter.

The areas that more than other areas require reworking are in pacticular the hair, palms of the hands, back of the legs, cloth, back, boots and the skintones... the other parts of the texture, so so.

Hair: It barely looks like anything more than many badly thought out brushstrokes with a sharpen filter, creating a chalcky and unapealing look, which also clashes with the not so bad fur and bodyhair.

hand palms: The color and intensity of them seems to totaly clash with the texture around it, it also clashes with the brown? color surrounding it which aswell seems to clash with the existing theme of flesh.

Back of the legs: There are two note worthy muscles on the back of the leg, the rectus femoris and vastus externus, but you seem to have made up two insted, plus your inability to describe forms with lighting results in technicly flawed and inadequate art, this is the case for 97% of this texture, You also left out the achilles tendon, or maybe you did draw it, its hard to tell.

Cloth: uhhhh yea, iv never seen a cloth look like that before, id try again, realy. cloth just doesnt hang like that.

Back and flesh in general: the back has no anatomical accuracy whatsoever, id reccomend atleast getting some refference, because no, there are no 6 dark blotches and large lumps or 30 to 60 small muscles on the back, you should have put some hair on it aswell to help blend the hair from the head to the back without looking as obvious as it does now.

Boots: the boots have no technical merit whatsoever, its nothing more than muddy forms and an overlay, very unconvincing, the fold patterns are right, just pulled off with no technical quality to speak of.

Skintone: There is far too many bizzare, confusing and destracting colors and value intensitys, your bright areas (which have no right being that bright) are overly yellow and usualy sit next to some darker purples and pinks, its very irritating and unapealing looking, very ugly. Try studying Moose, ken scott and strangefate, you might learn something from professional artists like them. The viens are a big turn off too, tho viens may be blue on about 2 or 3 inches of your arm, they are blue nowhere else, the placement of the viens seems also pretty confused and uninformed, have you no arms? :)

Also, the belts are quite unremarkable. The armor is also wayyyyy over highlighted, this will give very very bad results ingame with vertex lighting, why would you let this pass?

All in all i would say this is your best work to date. :D

tpe
02-18-2003, 01:18 PM
Hi there Harl.

Wont say much in the crits as it looks like everything has been more than covored (hi hyper good to see you around, btw why cant i access your site anymore), except that the chest rocks, love it and the detail, the face colouring is fantastic, shame you cant see it in the pic here though.

tpe

Jon Jones
02-18-2003, 04:19 PM
Hey Tim, haven't seen you around lately!

Have to say that I'm in agreement with Hyper here though, nothing to say past that really. Looking forward to seeing more from you posted here though. :)

Marcel
02-18-2003, 05:56 PM
You also left out the achilles tendon, or maybe you did draw it, its hard to tell.

Hmmm, that is indeed hard to tell, since the achilles tendon is inside the boot!

Also Hyper, the muscles rectus femoris and vastus lateralis (wrongly called vastus externus by you) are both based on the front of the leg, not on the back.
If you want to sound like the king of anatomy, at least look it up correctly.

http://www.rhinotrainingzone.com/Muscles_4.htm

Nevertheless, I do agree with your comments on the muscles of the back of the leg, they do look a bit weird.

Great skin!

HyPer
02-18-2003, 10:18 PM
my bad, appears brune hogarth decided to make that one page the most confusing page in his book marcel, i indeed intended to say bicep femoris, semitendinosus and the popliteal fossa - thanks for the correction, otherwise my crit in that aspect is useless.

yo tpe! :D long time no see, you tried n-en.com?

dmbilly4
02-18-2003, 11:03 PM
hey thats really nice! i like the skin!

sanhueza
02-19-2003, 12:47 AM
This skin instantly appealed to me, needs improvement, but even with a few flaws it is an interesting and entertaining character. Although the shine on the armor is overly blown-out, I do like the style and effect it conveys. Making it a little more subtle would help.

I like the use of purples and yellows throughout the skin, your use of complimentary colors is very eye pleasing. Since this is not necessarily a human being, and because it is apparent that you are going for a more colorful, fantasy art look for this model, the color scheme does not bother me one bit, blue veins and all.

The fur and body hair are very well executed - congrats! The head hair, however obviously needs improvement as others have said. Perhaps you could use a similar technique to the one you used to create the fur? The muscles on the back of the legs and on his back do look weird and could use adjusting. His arms and chest however are right on. (I would suggest making the pecs look a little rounder - not much - a little.) The face has much character, but I would like to be able to see the eyes.

The belts are original looking, I especially like the waist belt. There isn't much wrong with the boots on a technical level, but they do look kind of boring compared to the rest of the texture. Perhaps a little metal and/or fur could help? Finally, like was mentioned by another, the wrist bands need more definition. All in all I like the job you have done texturing this character, and I hope you can use these suggestions along with the other crits you have been given to make this model perfect. Good luck!

- Me

modeling-man
02-19-2003, 03:41 AM
I think this is good work. Sure there's room for improvement all work can be improved.
The anatomy claims are pretty petty. I wouldn't really get to worried considering the model itself is anything but anatomically correct. Have you ever seen a human that ripped with no neck? Come on! Not to mention the incorrect labeling of the muscles or lack there of (ie. achilles tendon)...going off on a tangent here but these "PHD's of BS" are really gettin on my nerves. The recent post of the street fighter character had so many idiots citing that the model was "anatomically incorrect" it made me sick. Please, its a video game...I suppose the fireballs they throw should be anatomically correct too?!

Anyways, the textures are a good start and yes the hair on the head can be tuned up a bit. The wrist bands a need a bit more "oomph". The fur though on the cloth piece is great, and the belts are really something. The highlighting on the metal might be a bit over the top but I'm sure that might have something to do with the lighting in the render. I'd suggest posting a texture shot as well. That'll help out in most areas for us to crit.

As for the skin tone. I think some of these anatomy buffs are missing whats going on here. The skin is pretty correct, yes the back of the leg muscle is a bit odd easily fixable and the hair on the chest could be toned down a bit but considering this dude is most likely outside and barely covered I would think his skin would be red and pinkish possibly burned by the sun a bit...I DOUBT he has sun screen. His body is trying to stay warm...if he was a nice pale color he'd be good and dead, and to me would look pretty damn dumb.

Some areas I really find impressive are the knees and elbows they look like they were lifted straight from a photo. Plus the overall look and concept of the texture is pretty dope. Perhaps, a bit cliche but what isn't these days. This is a good portfolio piece...with a little tuning and some other work of this caliber this could land you an interview and possibly a job.
Keep it up and hope you enter the 3rd game comp!
B

HyPer
02-19-2003, 06:13 AM
Modeling man:
your 2nd sentence says it all realy, "Sure there's room for improvement, all work can be improved."... you said it yourself, so stop dismissing my critiques.
what harlequin painted was not a back, it had nothing a back has, the only thing that ties it to being a back is that it appears on the back of a model.
A great artist told me once, "Understanding muscle and bone structure is what separates good artists from the best"
What do you think life drawing is for modeling_man? so you can draw people standing still better? hah. Whats your problem with accurate anatomy anyway? there are _NO_ draw backs to modeling, texturing or drawing with a strong understanding of anatomy, there is nothing _BUT_ draw backs to modeling, texturing or drawing without an understanding.
Im not here to critique the model or the sketch it was based on, but just so you know, This is a model based on a sketch by nutsy of a beast, not a human. Nutsy is a tallented enough artist to have sucsessfully pulled off an interestingly styled (the sketch was semi cartoony) character design, He has an understanding enough of anatomy to have pulled off what he did, the model represents this fairly well in 3d, _that_ is style, The texture at hand however is not.

"not to mention the incorrect labeling of the muscles or lack there of (ie, achilles tendon)..."

that has that got to do with anything? Corrections were made in a post shortly after, would you like me to edit my post? The point i made is still more than valid, so whats your problem with what was said? or are you disagreing with me? I grabbed the closest anatomy book and accidently listed the wrong muscles as i was typing. Harlequin did not know better, Im mearly pointing it out so he can iether correct this on this texture or correct it on his other textures in the future.

You all should do harlequin and every other artist you critique a favor by not praising aspects of their art which _require_ improvement, otherwise it _will_ stunt his growth as an artist.

You can disagree with the tone of my message, but dont then dismiss it and agree with the message itself as if i hadnt said it at all.
I didnt intend for this to turn into a disagreement over wording, so i will step back and let my criticisms stand. If you think im being unfair, ask yourself this question, am i wrong?

modeling-man
02-19-2003, 07:23 AM
geez 14 posts and you are already gettin in way over your head.
Perhaps, I read into your critique a bit differently than you had implied it. I found your critique to be rather harsh and more of a slam that left little for Harlequin to work with. Sure, some might not think its perfect but to come out saying such words like "its very irritating and unapealing looking, very ugly" make for a less than helpful post. How should he improve upon it then if its THAT bad...obviously if you can see why its sooo wrong then perhaps you could give him some pointers on how they'd go about bettering it. Perhaps, your skin is tough as nails but I prefer to be a little less harsh and more supportive in my posts. I don't find that at all to be stunting someones growth but actually I find encouragement to make me work harder and want to create more work. I'm not saying that everything should be positive but I believe it should be balanced. Most people on this board try to support instead of just pointing out flaws they see.

As for anatomy I'm not against anatomy, not at all but I feel its got its place and in some pieces it doesn't need to be the dominating force to making good art. I sure as hell know what life drawing is about I drew enough naked hippies in my days at college.

Anyways I'm done getting in an argument I'm too busy.
B

Samurai
02-19-2003, 08:35 AM
I'd have to say my biggest complaint is that all of your characters look like they've been horribly bruised over the entire surface of their bodies. Other than that, I'd have to agree with HyPer; it is actually one of your better pieces.

Jon Jones
02-19-2003, 08:43 AM
So would Hyper have more credibility if he spammed the board for a week or two before posting critiques like this? That's a pretty silly thing to mention. I can't understand why would this matter. Honestly, does his being right or wrong have anything to do with how many posts he has? Of course not. So why even bring that up?

I think there's a little more history going on here than you realize. Harlequin has been making art at this level for several years now... as far as persistence goes, he's far from being a newbie. I believe that at one point in the past few years that he's even worked professionally in game developmen, at some company or another. Hyper pointing out the areas that look bad and explaining why they look bad should be sufficient input for an artist that's been doing this as long as Harlequin.

Over on the Polycount message boards, Harlequin is even regarded by some as one of the senior artists there, and delivers critiques to a wide variety of newbies' work there. With that in mind, I think that the critique that Hyper offered him was quite enough to work with and will hopefully help him improve his future work. :)

I won't comment on the anatomy bit, no point in forcing my views on you or stirring things up any more than necessary.

tpe
02-19-2003, 08:57 AM
Harl that is some fine work here, One thing that has got me after trying to do some unreal textures at 1024 is the incredable amount of work that has to be put in. Infact it took me quite a bit longer to do 2 1024 Unreal textures for a 3k tris model than it takes me to do bump specularity colour and glossyness for a high poly model. It is much harder to apint them all together than it is to do 4 x the texture space in different maps and still gives worse results. Has anyone tryed baking typical highpoly textures onto a low poly model? and if so how did it turn out and was it quicker.

tpe

Sorry Hyper i mistook you for austin (because of my short memory and weak brain!) and now realise why i couldnt see your website. Anyone know what happened to austin?


Small request for those with a history. Hmnn seems like creative criticism went out of the window here, how bout we leave our dirty underwear at home?.

SIGIL
02-19-2003, 05:19 PM
HARLEQUIN that rocks man. I would SO LOVE to see more.

And to all these modeling and texture masters slamming this in the guise of " constructive criticism " why don't you guys put your money where your mouth is and post something better. I am getting so tired of reading this high brow BS that I seldom even read the threads anymore. So many here just LOVE to critique the work of others and do not show any of their own. I say STFU!

I think modelling man said it best so I do not think that I need to add anymore to this argument.

Harlequin That is one of the few really appealing models that I have seen on these forums and I think that you need to ignore the comments of those who talk the big talk but do not walk the walk, if you know what I mean.

Keep pluggin away. :buttrock: :buttrock:

HarlequiN
02-19-2003, 06:33 PM
Hmmm.

Well, leaving any response to Hyper's tone aside for a minute, I'll deal with the comments as is first.

Aerestis
" your texturing could use some work on the chest and the back of the hair"

Not sure what you mean by on the chest, could you claify a little? Is it the hair on the chest or the structure of the chest?
With the hair, and it's not just you that mentioned this, I was going to redo it at one point, and then someone said not to (not here, this was elsewhere) and there was a minor debate. The hair sems to be a love it or loath it sort of thing, and in the end I just decided to leave it because I was in the camp that liked it, and hey, it's my skin right? ;)

"the bands, I like them but not as much as I could. Define them a little more?"
Fair point. Looks like this guy isn't as final as I was hoping, but I'll put him on hold for now. If I do go back to him I'll look into sorting out the wrist bands.

Hyper
"but that as iv come to understand is nothing more than a photoshop hightmap filter."
Interesting. The body hair was all hand painted (drawn? whatever), but if you an let us know how to do it with a photoshop heightmap filter I'd be much oblidged, it might save me time in future.

"Hair: It barely looks like anything more than many badly thought out brushstrokes with a sharpen filter, creating a chalcky and unapealing look."
Well, as I've already said, this one seems to be in the eye of the beholder. You're certainly not alone in your views on the hair, so it's something I'll bear in mind in future. But as far as this skin goes that's how it is, and how it shall stay.

"hand palms: The color and intensity of them seems to totaly clash with the texture around it, it also clashes with the brown?"
I actually agree with you on that point, even though the palms are mostly obscured in that image. I'll add it to my list of "things to do" if I decide to rework this skin in the future.

"Back of the legs: There are two note worthy muscles on the back of the leg, the rectus femoris and vastus externus, but you seem to have made up two insted, plus your inability to describe forms with lighting results in technicly flawed and inadequate art, this is the case for 97% of this texture, You also left out the achilles tendon, or maybe you did draw it, its hard to tell."

It would be hard to tell if I drew the Achilies or not, since as Marcel noted it's inside the boot. For the record, I didn't expend the energy.
To my knowledge, again as Marcel states, both the Rectus Femoris and the Vastus Latae are in the upper front of the thigh, and area in heavy shadow on this image. Even if it were not, both would be obscured by the leg armour.
The back of the leg though, is a different matter, the major muscles there (The Semitendinosus and the Bicep Femoris) *are in slightly the wrong place, which hadn't been so apparent in earlier renders, so I hadn't thought to deal with it. I only spotted it now after you pointed it out, so I'll add that to my list of things to address. The Bicep Femoris should also give way to the Iliotibial Tract on the outside of the thigh, but I neglected to add it. As you've noted many times, anatomy is not my strongest point.

"Cloth: uhhhh yea, iv never seen a cloth look like that before, id try again"
Yeah, good catch. I assume you mean the Shammy Leather type thing over his bum? I knew it wasn't right, but I kinda liked it and rather arrogantly presumed no one would spot it as being all that wrong. I'll add it to the list.

"Back and flesh in general: the back has no anatomical accuracy whatsoever, id reccomend atleast getting some refference, because no, there are no 6 dark blotches and large lumps or 30 to 60 small muscles on the back,"
Hmmm, I was using reference, and then over that I tried to apply the slightly loose skin that old people, especially fat old people, get there. I can see that I've failed miserably there though, espcially with the folds at the bottom (which is what I'm taking to be the 6 dark blotches you refered to), and also in the location and form of the Teres Major. I'll do it again almost from scratch if I decide to rework the skin.

"you should have put some hair on it aswell to help blend the hair from the head to the back without looking as obvious as it does now."
Good point. Fumbled the ball on that one, It'll be on the list.

"Boots: the boots have no technical merit whatsoever, its nothing more than muddy forms and an overlay, very unconvincing, the fold patterns are right, just pulled off with no technical quality to speak of."
All true. I hate doing boots. I will redo them if I... you know the rest of this bit, heh.

"There is far too many bizzare, confusing and destracting colors and value intensitys, your bright areas (which have no right being that bright) are overly yellow and usualy sit next to some darker purples and pinks, its very irritating and unapealing looking, very ugly"

This must be taken as a matter of opinion. But, for what it's worth, all the elderly people I've ever seen, and the to specific elderly persons whose skin tones I loosely based this texture on, have exceptionally colourful skin. Even those who have lived indoors wearing shirts have a decided undertone of purple/pink with yellow areas in much the same areas as I've places them. All this with a variety of interesting dermatological conditions gained through a lifetime of general bodily abuse. This guys had more than his fair share of abuse to his skin, he has no sunblock, and is likely being grazed, bruised and cut on a very regular basis. f anything his skin isn't colourful or messed up enough.
The veins are again based on people I have met. I exagurated them slightly on this skin though, to give the impression that the skin on hi arms was a lot dryer and thiner than that on his stomach (this is common in older muscular men, though not to the extent I've depicted). I've done the same to his upper chest, though it's not really visible 90% of the time.
Again, for the record, I can see the blue of my veins right the way down to my wrist if I look for it, though again, nowhere near as much as I've put onto this texture.
the saturation and prominence of all these things was intentional, an attempt at pushing the work into the realms of high fantasy. Maybe it failed to give that effect.

"the belts are quite unremarkable."
Fair enough.

"The armor is also wayyyyy over highlighted, this will give very very bad results ingame with vertex lighting"
The armour isn't that bright really. I bombarded it with far to bright a light to really show off the texture in retrospect, but it looked nice to me at 2am so I let it pass. I'll do another render with more normal "in game" type lighting, and also post the flats.

"All in all i would say this is your best work to date"
It's your best crit to date too. Very impressive.

TPE
"the chest rocks, love it and the detail, the face colouring is fantastic, shame you cant see it in the pic here though"
I shall post a closeup render shortly Tim.

Jon
"Looking forward to seeing more from you posted here though"
Thanks. I shall post again in about 3 months when my next textures actually finished. heh. Actually this is the seond work I've shown here in as many weeks.

Marcel
"the muscles of the back of the leg, they do look a bit weird."
Yeah, I realise this now, as I said to Hyper. I'll bear it in mind the mistakes in future :)

Hyper again
"popliteal fossa"
Now I know what you mean. I assume this is what you meant when you said Achillies anyway.
Well, To my knowledge the Popliteal fossa is the space at the back of the knee, between the Semitendinous and Semimembranosus on one side, and the lower Biceps Femoris on the other. As well as containing several arteries, glands and nerves it also contains a large quantity of fat.
The skin is of a Beast with a lot of fat, so the Poplitial fossa is there, it's just very slight from an external view.

sanhueza
"it is apparent that you are going for a more colorful, fantasy art look for this model, the color scheme does not bother me one bit, blue veins and all."

I guess I didn't completely fail in that regard then. :)

"The fur and body hair are very well executed - congrats! The head hair, however obviously needs improvement as others have said. Perhaps you could use a similar technique to the one you used to create the fur? The muscles on the back of the legs and on his back do look weird and could use adjusting"
I've dealt with these things in answering Hyper's post, and I assure you that either in a touch up of this skin, or in a future skin where I need to do similar things, I'll address these issues to the best of my ability.

"The face has much character, but I would like to be able to see the eyes"
The eyes are obscured by shadow from his brows in that render. I'll post a shot of his face for you and TPE in a bit.

I'll skip over the rest of your points as they've already been adressed and my hands are getting tired from typing. Your input is much appreciated though :)

Modelling Man
"yes the hair on the head can be tuned up a bit. The wrist bands a need a bit more "oomph"... yes the back of the leg muscle is a bit odd easily fixable and the hair on the chest could be toned down a bit"
Again, I've dealt with these crits, but again, your input is appreciated. The more people tell me that something is wrong, the more likely I am to pay more attention to that aspect in future.

"I'd suggest posting a texture shot as well. That'll help out in most areas for us to crit."
Fair enough, I shall do just that as I said earlier.

"I DOUBT he has sun screen"
I said that too. Cool - heh.

"Some areas I really find impressive are the knees and elbows they look like they were lifted straight from a photo"
The elbows were based on a photograph of my future Father in Laws arms, so I guess you could say they were taken straight froma photo. The Knees were done without reference though, so I'm glad they worked out.

"Plus the overall look and concept of the texture is pretty dope"
Thanks :D

"other work of this caliber this could land you an interview and possibly a job."
Heh, I already have a job. But thanks for the compliment. I'm sorry if the original post didn't give enough indication that I do stuff similar to this for a living (not texturing character models like this sadly, that's still in the ballpark of hobbies).

"Keep it up and hope you enter the 3rd game comp!"
I'll have to see if I have the time. I'm juggling about 9 balls at the minute, a 10th might see them all spill.

"I'd have to say my biggest complaint is that all of your characters look like they've been horribly bruised over the entire surface of their bodies. Other than that, I'd have to agree with HyPer; it is actually one of your better pieces."
I'll take that as a compliment and leave it at that.

TPE again
"One thing that has got me after trying to do some unreal textures at 1024 is the incredable amount of work that has to be put in"
Yeah Tim, it's both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because you can really get in there and add character to things such as faces, but a curse because you then try to maintain that level of detail over the whole texture, and as you say, it takes forever. One of the largest problems with this piece is that I'm sick to death of it, which is why it is, for the time being, finished. Michelangelo might have managed to stick to one subject in the Sistine Chapel for 20 odd years, but I don't have his patience (let alone his skill). I can only keep up the quality of a piece as long as I remain interested in it. It's pretty interesting to see that the parts that got critisised the most were those parts that I did later on in the process, and therefore had less motvation to do (with the exception of the back and the hair).
Next time I'll start on the boots, and finish on the hair. Leaving the fun parts until last might give a more consistent quality to a piece.

Now the crits are out of the way, a small note to Hyper.

I hope you take the comments refering back to your original post on this thread the right way. They are meant in all sincerity.
Originally I was annoyed as I always am by the tone you use when critisising work, and I see from other people who've posted that I'm not the only one who feels that way.
So I went and had a little rand and a stomp until the red faded, and then I read your post again this morning. Once I got past the tone I could see that you did have several very good and valid points, which I hope you will agree I've answered fairly and in the same manner I've answered everyone else in this thread.
Your tone still annoys me, and the confusion over the references to musculature were pretty daft. I know without even picking up a book where the Achillies is, though I did have to pick one up for the other notes. I keep one on my desk at all times, so you should bear that in mind in future. Any anatomical inaccuracies in my work are either intentional (usually because of extreme lazyness), or because I interpreted a diagram incorrectly. Occassionally, as with the back, it's due to my technique not being as good as I would like.
Please, feel free to crit my work in future, but try to use the correct terms, or simpler more layman like terms in order to avoid confusion. I'd also apreciate it if you weren't so harsh in your tone. I'm getting used to it, but there are many who are not, and as has once again been shown, it's a good way to start an arguement, even when I'm not involved.
Anyway, I'm willing to let Bygones be bygones, on the condition that you listen, at least in part, to my small crit of your posting style. I respect you greatly as an artist, please let me start respecting you as another human being, and as a member of this forum.

All: I'll post the other renders and the flats later, right now I have to get back to work as I've spent my lunch typing this :) All your comments, both favourable and critical were much appreciated.

Elven-Knight
02-19-2003, 06:53 PM
good work like usual harly:airguitar :beer:

moppius
02-19-2003, 07:18 PM
Good work, the overall effect of the skin is a good 'un.

The face, chest, and arms are excellent in my opinion, as are the boots. HyPer suggested that the boots were badly textured (HarlequiN agreed, heh), I disagree with both of ya - the boots look like bit fat worn leather boots. The texture overlay is fine, it is a convincing material, and i can't see any problems with the forms of the material. The look nicely clumpy and well-used, suits the character.

I don't like the hair - it looks stringy and unnatural, but I guess it's all a matter of taste :p

The belts around his chest are fairly lacklustre - they seem flat and uninteresting compared to the rest of the skin, and the gold (?) ring holding them together seems almost like a placeholder than a finished skin piece. It's overall far too yellow, and seemingly lacking any depth. Doesn't really detract from the look at a glance though, it's too small to be a real problem.

To be honest I don't care if the musculature is "perfect" or not - this guy's probably not even human, judging by the proportions and neck connections etc. - You can't really go and say that the muscles aren't perfectly human when the model may not even represent a human. The musculature looks acceptable, and doesn't scream "WRONG!" when you look at it. Really you'd have to be anal about anatomy to want every muscle perfectly placed - the mesh might not even allow for accurate musculature, try to take things like that into account when critting.

The wristbands are fairly poor. They blend in too much with the arm skin around them, nothing to pick them out or define their use or meaning. Maybe a ring of gemstones around them and a sharper contrast with the surrounding area would make it more interesting and quality.

The metal does look really over-exposed, but as HarlequiN said, that's probably more to do with the render than the actual texture itself (Note to Harl, render in a way which shows your skins in the best possible light ;) )

I really like the loincloth he's wearing out front, the fur seems very realistic and it fits in nicely with the design. I think you shoulda done the back loincloth in the same way, because the one that covers his ass is really sub-standard, I'm afraid.

Well, I'm done picking holes in the small things. I love the overall effect - the skin does look blotchy and bruised in places, but possibly that was intentional, I'm not sure. Good stuff anyway.

Note to HyPer - read this post and learn, please. You're all for HarlequiN bettering himself in the skinning and texturing field, I'm sure, and nearly all of your criticisms were very valid, and of course you were just trying to help him learn - but PLEASE, try to learn yourself, that there is such a thing as "tact" - your reply to HarlequiN's hard work was rude, condescending, and generally left me with the feeling that you're a bitter person. I'm sure this is not the case, but please learn to alter your attitude to be more generous and friendly towards other artsy people.

Thanks,

MoP

HarlequiN
02-20-2003, 03:40 PM
Got sidetracked yesterday and neglected to post these.

Orthographic View (www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/qbranch/images/inprogress/beastfinal_ortho.jpg)
Face Closeup (www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/qbranch/images/inprogress/beastfinal_face.jpg)
Flat Texture (www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/qbranch/images/inprogress/beastfinal_flat.jpg)

Be warned that they're pretty big images.
Oh, and I just spotted that ugly poly on the inside of his bangs - I'll fix that.

Hellwolve
02-25-2003, 07:04 PM
Sorry for going a bit OT, but where can I get that Beast model done by Bonemonkey?

ehpawk
02-25-2003, 08:05 PM
harle post some close-ups of the hair after people see how amazing it looks i think they will change thier minds..

HarlequiN
02-25-2003, 08:29 PM
Hellwolve - You can't as yet, but the SDK is available on polycount's forums (just search for "Nutsy's Beast"). He's being released for UT2k3, and I believe the animations are around half way completed the the minute.

Ehpawk, there are closeups in the images linked above, both on the facial images and on the flat itself. I can post just images of the hair on it's own, but why eh? It's just hair ;)
Thanks for the compliment though :)

Mop - I luvs you I dus. You know most of what I could say in response to your post, so I won't follow that up here. Needless to say I'll take your points into consideration.

Hellwolve
02-25-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by HarlequiN
Hellwolve - You can't as yet, but the SDK is available on polycount's forums (just search for "Nutsy's Beast"). He's being released for UT2k3, and I believe the animations are around half way completed the the minute.<SNIP>

Thanks for the info.

DustyKrakk
02-26-2003, 04:49 PM
I think overall the artwork is pretty nice, but one thing that you should try to work on is proper spacing on your texture. There is a lot of wasted space on there and the head should be MUCH bigger than it is. I realize that you have an enormous texture here and aren't trying to constrain to any particular size, but if you even shrink that texture down a little you are going to lose massive amounts of detail in all of the wrong spots. For instance, the hair and hands shouldn't be anywhere near as big as you have them.

Head should be probably the largest part of the texture next to the torso.

Its a tricky thing sometimes, just try to imagine the parts that the viewer is going to be able to see the most and focus on them. For instance, you OBVIOUSLY put a lot of detail into the hands (veins wrinkles etc), but you can barely see that on the model at all. So you wasted a lot of time on that that could have been spent elsewhere. It looks great on the texture, but if you can't see it in the end product its unnecessary.

Just food for thought. :)

-Dusty

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