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Bobo
08-13-2012, 01:15 AM
Hi all. How can i make analogue of Load Percentage in Main Controll in MagmaFlow, but with more random threshold?
Also maybe somebody have interesting Magma Presets????

The Load Percentage simply skips every Nth particle. For example, if you set it to 10%, it will load one and skip the next 9 particles, so if your particle system is highly ordered (for example a PRT Volume), you might see an obvious pattern.

I tried a Magma modifier that sets the Selection channel to 0.9 and then a Krakatoa Delete modifier on top of the stack set to delete by Soft-Selection + ID channel. While the result appeared slightly more random, I would not claim it fixed the issue of my PRT Volume.

Can you explain what your exact problem is (with images and possibly a scene file)? I generally don't recommend using Load Percentage anyway, it still processes all particles and just skips at the memory loading phase. So if you have 100 million particles, they will be fully processed including material evaluation etc. and then discarded. Using a PRT Loader's Every Nth by ID option is the best approach, assuming your particles are pre-saved to disk.

kirillall
08-14-2012, 08:57 AM
Can you explain what your exact problem is (with images and possibly a scene file)? I generally don't recommend using Load Percentage anyway, it still processes all particles and just skips at the memory loading phase. So if you have 100 million particles, they will be fully processed including material evaluation etc. and then discarded. Using a PRT Loader's Every Nth by ID option is the best approach, assuming your particles are pre-saved to disk.
Hi Bobo. I have Fume simulation. I use PRTFume loader to fill it with krakatoa particles, but my fume simulation have small spacing, and smooth (no sand effect) on render. I need to make less dense of particles, almost to the type of sand.
As i understand right now particles dont have any ID, I make this magma rig and its gave me more random decrease of particles (not such obvious pattern effect, but its generate a bit pattern selection also). its pure luck, cause i new to magma. And i`m sure fo 99% that there is more correct and interesting solution for doing that.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2012/08/14/12/57/8594598_bigthumb.jpg (http://www.picamatic.com/view/8594598_PRTFume_oscar_clear/)
Without any reducing

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2012/08/14/12/58/8594599_bigthumb.jpg (http://www.picamatic.com/view/8594599_PRTFume_oscar_load10-20/)
Some pattern is visible

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2012/08/14/12/59/8594600_bigthumb.jpg (http://www.picamatic.com/view/8594600_PRTFume_oscar_0-31fr_MyMagmaDelete/)
My MagmaFlow rig (0, 31 frame of animation)

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2012/08/14/01/00/8594601_bigthumb.jpg (http://www.picamatic.com/view/8594601_PRTFume_oscar_MagmaMy/)

zoubein
08-23-2012, 11:22 AM
Hello All,

I am trying to scatter a PRT sequence over a piece of geometry(sphere) using the PRT cloner. Everything is working fine, except I would like the orientation of the prt sequences to be based on the normals of the object (sphere) that its scattered on. I am guessing that I need to add a get average normal to the property query. But I am not sure how to go about it or if its even the right way.

Thanks.

Bobo
08-24-2012, 12:48 AM
Hello All,

I am trying to scatter a PRT sequence over a piece of geometry(sphere) using the PRT cloner. Everything is working fine, except I would like the orientation of the prt sequences to be based on the normals of the object (sphere) that its scattered on. I am guessing that I need to add a get average normal to the property query. But I am not sure how to go about it or if its even the right way.

Thanks.

What are you using as the distribution system for the PRT Cloner? PRT Volume? PRT Loader from the geometry vertices or from PFlow?

If you are using a PRT Volume from Sphere for your distribution system, then it is simple, since each particle already has a Normal. All you have to do is calculate the VectorCross product of the Normal with [0,0,1], Normalize the result and calculate the VectorCross of that result with the Normal and Normalize that. Then feed the first result into X, the second into Y, and the Normal into the Z input socket of a Convert>VectorsToQuat operator and feed that into the Orientation output channel. And voila, your distributed PRTs will be oriented to point with their Z axis along the sphere's normals.

If you are using a PRT Loader as the distribution system, you will need to use an InputGeometry node and a NearestPoint node to find the normal of the Sphere at the closest point to the particle, the rest is the same...

zoubein
08-24-2012, 11:10 AM
Hey thanks for that Bobo. Unfortunately my math sucks so I wasn't able to fully understand what you meant. I gave it a go but I am getting an error in the nearest point node.


I am distributing PRT loaders on a PRT Volume. But in the magma flow that I attempted I used the geosphere that I used to create the volume to get the normals. Because that seemed simpler.

Thanks.

Bobo
08-25-2012, 01:21 AM
Hey thanks for that Bobo. Unfortunately my math sucks so I wasn't able to fully understand what you meant. I gave it a go but I am getting an error in the nearest point node.


I am distributing PRT loaders on a PRT Volume. But in the magma flow that I attempted I used the geosphere that I used to create the volume to get the normals. Because that seemed simpler.

Thanks.

As I mentioned, the PRT Volume already has a Normal channel that contains the normals of the Geosphere. But in your case, all you need is drag from Lookup Point (WS) to create a Position input defining where you are sampling (at each particle!), converted to world space (it happens automatically if you just drag). And then you need a Normalize after the second VectorCross operator. Then it should work...

zoubein
08-25-2012, 10:28 AM
Thank you! :thumbsup: got it working now, I also had to flip the connections in the vector cross to get it right. Cant wait to use this on monday at work.

zoubein
08-30-2012, 02:15 PM
Hello


I had two other questions regarding the PRT cloner. Once you have aligned a PRT Loader object to another particle system or object and oriented it to the normal is there a way to also add a random local rotation to the PRT Loaders?

And the second question is I have a PRT sequence A which has 10 particles floating up and on each particle I want to clone another much heavier PRT sequence B. which works fine except all the particles in "sequence A" when they are born instead of playing Sequence B from the beginning frame 0, they play it from the current time. hope that made sense.

Thanks
Zoubein

Bobo
08-30-2012, 09:06 PM
I had two other questions regarding the PRT cloner. Once you have aligned a PRT Loader object to another particle system or object and oriented it to the normal is there a way to also add a random local rotation to the PRT Loaders?

And the second question is I have a PRT sequence A which has 10 particles floating up and on each particle I want to clone another much heavier PRT sequence B. which works fine except all the particles in "sequence A" when they are born instead of playing Sequence B from the beginning frame 0, they play it from the current time. hope that made sense.


Yes, you can rotate the normal randomly inside the Magma modifier, but it is not exactly obvious. A Noise operator with the Position as input can generate a "random" value. Using the Random value, you could produce a random Quat from AngleAxis or EulerAngles (operator is found under Convert category), and then using the TransformByQuat rotate the original normal. I have attached an example (Max 2010+).

As for the animation playback, this is a current limitation of the system. I guess the reason behind it was that we didn't want each clone to be read on a different frame - it would be very slow to process. But we support animation control via a dedicated GeomTime channel in Frost, so the same approach could be applied to the PRT Cloner I guess. I will log it as a Wish.

zoubein
09-05-2012, 08:13 AM
Thanks Bobo. :thumbsup:


When I open the file I am getting a

"Magma This node failed to load from disk. Please fix it.: | ID: 26 |" this is the rotate randomly node. Anyone else have this problem.

Looking forward to the presentation tonight in London.

Bobo
09-10-2012, 09:04 AM
Thanks Bobo. :thumbsup:


When I open the file I am getting a

"Magma This node failed to load from disk. Please fix it.: | ID: 26 |" this is the rotate randomly node. Anyone else have this problem.

Looking forward to the presentation tonight in London.

Go get the latest build from the public beta folder.
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krakatoa-downloads/builds-beta/
Obviously I am using something that your version of Magma does not have.

hardikpatelanim
09-20-2012, 04:07 PM
Hey guys I have a particle simulation. 6million particles. I want about 20% OF THE TOTAL PARTICLES TO GLITTER. How can i do that with magma flow.

thanks

Glacierise
09-21-2012, 08:38 AM
Take the id and use the mod operation, that gives the remainder of division. Mod with 5, and for the particles that the result is less than 2, you can make the selection channel 1. Then in a separate magmaflow you can use that selection to make them glitter.

hardikpatelanim
09-21-2012, 04:07 PM
Glacierise (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=239747) thank you so much for your reply.. As i have never used krakatoa before so i am still on a learning curve. I tried to do something as per ur guidance. but i dont know if i am doing it right or wrong. so please help me out with it.

check jpg files for the magma flow connection i used for it. its not working so i am sure i did something wrong.

magma flow1 i used for selection and magmaflow 3 for glitter.

please help me out with it. thanks :)

Bobo
09-21-2012, 04:55 PM
It is really not necessary to have two flows for this.
I would suggest you figure out how you want to implement your glitter on 100% of the particles first (your glitter flow makes little sense to me, but I might be misunderstanding something). There are many ways to do the glitter, but let's assume you want to modify the Color over time via a Noise based on some input parameter (probably not Density, but current time + ID or Position or something like that). Then simply create a Logic Switch operator that is set to True when your Modulo operation produces the expected result, and set the Color output to the modified value, otherwise set the Color to the input Color channel without modification. This way, the percent of particles that pass the Modulo-based test will change their color and the others won't...

Start with 1000 or so particles and figure out how the flicker should work. Then add the Logic for the percentage. Then apply to the millions of particles...

hardikpatelanim
09-21-2012, 07:02 PM
Hey Bobo. thanks for the awesome plugin. back to the topic. i took ur advice. and got something to work. but it is still not looking really like that.. i am sharing you my kcm script please. have a look at it. thanks a lot

hardikpatelanim
09-21-2012, 07:37 PM
hey sorry.. this one makes more sense and it is more cleaner.. i thought i cannot plug in vector to switch so i was converting them to scalar. lol my bad.

Bobo
09-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Hey Bobo. thanks for the awesome plugin. back to the topic. i took ur advice. and got something to work. but it is still not looking really like that.. i am sharing you my kcm script please. have a look at it. thanks a lot

Does not look like something that would work...
I have attached a possible solution based on the ID channel (assuming there is one, you can switch ID to Index if not), and the current time to cause the Noise to change over time.
There is a control which affects the Nth particle (when set to 5, every 5th particle will change color, the other 4 will keep their color). Also there is a value controlling the strength of the Noise.

hardikpatelanim
09-21-2012, 08:19 PM
:applause:that works like a charm.. thanks for that.. :)

Arreador
09-26-2012, 01:16 AM
Hi, Bobo, i send you a message, but, post this problem anyway. Using PRT Hair have this issue
My render crash when i try to render more than 40000 hairs with the hair and fur modifier, with no splines. A message like "out of memory " appears and dont do the render.
Have no problem with less that 40000 hairs.

Any help??

Thankss!!

Bobo
09-26-2012, 09:24 AM
Hi, Bobo, i send you a message, but, post this problem anyway. Using PRT Hair have this issue
My render crash when i try to render more than 40000 hairs with the hair and fur modifier, with no splines. A message like "out of memory " appears and dont do the render.
Have no problem with less that 40000 hairs.

Could it be that you are actually running out of memory? :)

Please post the version of Max, Krakatoa and Windows (32/64 bit?), as well as your hardware specs.

I just created a Teapot, added a Hair&Fur modifier and requested 50,000 hairs with all other settings at default. I did this on my laptop (dual i7, 8GB RAM). My RAM was already at 5.5GB due to too many tabs in Chrome, but Krakatoa only used about 165MB of RAM and rendered 6.1 million particles from the 50K hairs without a problem.

Open Task Manager and watch your RAM while you are trying to render. Do you see any spikes?

Arreador
09-26-2012, 02:24 PM
Hi, BObo, thanks for the reply.!
I have i7 processor, 16gb ram, win7 64bits, max 2012, Krakatoa MX 2.0.1.46319.
And your right, i`m out of memory with 60000 hairs.
But, i do a test with more spacing that 0.1, and its render, the problem is that the particles appears to spacing, dont look like hairs.

Is splines a better method?

thanks.

Bobo
09-26-2012, 04:47 PM
Hi, BObo, thanks for the reply.!
I have i7 processor, 16gb ram, win7 64bits, max 2012, Krakatoa MX 2.0.1.46319.
And your right, i`m out of memory with 60000 hairs.
But, i do a test with more spacing that 0.1, and its render, the problem is that the particles appears to spacing, dont look like hairs.

Is splines a better method?

thanks.

Do you get any feedback about the number of particles it tries to create?
Normally, Krakatoa on a 64 bit system should never run out of memory.
Also, have you tried the latest beta 2.1.4 build posted on our website? It is possible that we fixed something since your build was released...
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krakatoa-downloads/builds-beta/

silwerfeldt
10-19-2012, 07:42 AM
Iīm trying to render my RealFlow Grid Domain particles using Krakatoa, but I only get a black picture...

I load them with a PRT loader and i can see them in my viewport but as soon as i render (wit a simple light) I get a black picture. If I load my Splash particles insetad everything renders fine...

My Grid Domain have almost 15 million particles but that shouldnīt be any problem, right?
Any ideas?

Sorry if this is a stupid question - Iīm new to Krakatoa so there will be some newbie questions...

Cheers

zoubein
10-19-2012, 08:03 AM
Have you checked the alpha channel in your render window to see if the particles show up there? It could just be that you need to have more lights and adjust your density.

silwerfeldt
10-19-2012, 10:37 AM
Have you checked the alpha channel in your render window to see if the particles show up there? It could just be that you need to have more lights and adjust your density.

Thanks for your quick reply and yes I have checked my Alpha but its just black - empty picture...

When it renders it calculates the light and retireveing the 14.5 million particles and renders...
Just black. Very strange.

I use a PRT loader to load my .Bin file - If I load my splash or foam it works fine... They have much less particles but I have rendered alot mor particles than 15 million in krakatoa!

silwerfeldt
10-19-2012, 11:48 AM
Thanks for your quick reply and yes I have checked my Alpha but its just black - empty picture...

When it renders it calculates the light and retireveing the 14.5 million particles and renders...
Just black. Very strange.

I use a PRT loader to load my .Bin file - If I load my splash or foam it works fine... They have much less particles but I have rendered alot mor particles than 15 million in krakatoa!

I think I found the problem... I tried to override my density with a pure white and then it renders fine... Why my density is black from realflow I donīt know...

Cheers

JohnnyRandom
10-19-2012, 03:39 PM
I have run into this as well.

You can also add a KCM to the PRT Loader, just pipe a float of 1.0 into the density channel.

EDIT: Sorry for the short reply I was sending it from my phone. The actual grid.bin (if that is what you are using) appearantly does not populate the density channel like a normal realflow emitter object would so you need to add a value into the density. You can get fancy with it by introducing some of other channels such as velocity or vorticity and do some basic math functions on them to get some different effects.

Bobo
10-19-2012, 09:37 PM
I think I found the problem... I tried to override my density with a pure white and then it renders fine... Why my density is black from realflow I donīt know...

Cheers

RealFlow has its own Density channel which means something else completely. Under certain conditions, it might get set to 0.0 (I think one case was reflowing particles through a Hybrido simulation to produce Vorticity, but that was a few versions ago and there might be other cases too).

So you need to reset the Density of the particles to 1.0 as suggested by others (and as you have found out already). A Magma modifier is the better solution.

JohnnyRandom
10-20-2012, 08:33 PM
A Magma modifier is the better solution.

Ah, sorry, I keep calling them KCM's, old habits.

I realize they still exist but are depreciated.

CerberusC
10-22-2012, 04:07 PM
Has anyone received this message while trying to use the "Depth Map File Sequence" for a matte?


depthbuffer_singleface::resample() - Input size: (size2t 1920,1080) is not a valid supersample of: (size2t 512,512)

FxJunior
10-24-2012, 09:55 AM
Hey guys I'm newbie.
I have done one naiad simulation and export wetmap emp format to prt format. now my question is how to use prt particle in material id in 3dsmax??
Just stuck here!......Need help guys :(
I want a achieve proper wetmap result on my object.
Thanks in advanced guys :bowdown:

CerberusC
10-24-2012, 11:15 AM
Has anyone received this message while trying to use the "Depth Map File Sequence" for a matte?


depthbuffer_singleface::resample() - Input size: (size2t 1920,1080) is not a valid supersample of: (size2t 512,512)


I want to autoanswer this, the Thinkbox guys answered me, and they told me that they've found a small bug where you can't use the Depth map matte if you are using shadows in the scene, because the shadowmap size and the depth map matte "collides", but they gave me a workaround while they fix the bug.

1.- Set your scene without the depth map matte or any other matte.
2.- make sure you have all the shadow lights active
3.- resave the particles to PRT but this time, bake the lighting into them
4.- reuse the particles with the prt loader and the lighting channel you saved, this will give you the particle shadows and lighting baked.
5.- activate ignore scene lights
6.- render the scene with your auto-lit particles

Cheers.

Bobo
10-27-2012, 01:57 AM
I want to autoanswer this, the Thinkbox guys answered me, and they told me that they've found a small bug ....

LOL, thanks for calling it "small", but it is in fact such a HUGE bug it could star in "Starship Troopers"! :) The whole "Initial Depth Maps" workflow is pretty much broken in 2.x and we have it on our ToDo list (as soon as the Win8 frenzy is over).
Very sorry about that!

Inferno Acid
11-02-2012, 01:09 PM
LOL, thanks for calling it "small", but it is in fact such a HUGE bug it could start in "Starship Troopers"! :) The whole "Initial Depth Maps" workflow is pretty much broken in 2.x and we have it on our ToDo list (as soon as the Win8 frenzy is over).
Very sorry about that!

I would like to say that I'm having the same big problems too, I really need to use depth matte because Krakatoa just keeps crashing when I add too many matte objects, and it seems to be broken in 2.1.1.47356

When can we expect a patch? :) So I can write it down in my planning.

Thanks Bobo!

Inferno Acid
11-02-2012, 03:14 PM
LOL, thanks for calling it "small", but it is in fact such a HUGE bug it could start in "Starship Troopers"! :) The whole "Initial Depth Maps" workflow is pretty much broken in 2.x and we have it on our ToDo list (as soon as the Win8 frenzy is over).
Very sorry about that!

Ha! Sorry about that BoBo, you guys released the new beta a couple of days ago. It all works fine now :) Thanks anyway!

ghoul
11-09-2012, 11:34 AM
Hi there,

first of all, I did google. A lot. But after all the effort, couldn't find the solution to correctly open Krakatoa rendered files with an alpha channel in AE. This "solution" doesn't work:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=6980981&postcount=1409
...tried it and, although it does look ok at first, as soon as you add any layer behind it (even pure black!!) the premultiplied alpha just eats away all of the fine details.

Besides that, I tried tga, exr, tif. Tried gamma and no gamma in Max. Tried with or without color profiles in AE. Tried 32bit...

So, please, once again - has anyone ever successfully opened a krakatoa rendered file with alpha in AE, so it looks exactly like in VFB?

Thanks.

Phlok
11-17-2012, 01:52 PM
I do not use AE for reasons like this, but I remember AF people having used my Krakatoa renderings without any difficulties, but that was two years ago.

If one of my teammates has difficulties opening renderings from me in AE (this goes for anything and is not specifically Krakatoa related), I usually import the files into Nuke and have Nuke export the files in a format AE finds more acceptable. This did solve any problem with AE being unable to open some files so far.

JohnnyRandom
11-17-2012, 06:14 PM
AE needs improved handling for .exr, period. There is something really not right with it. Sadly, it is perfect example of third party integration not seeing proper scrutiny for current standards and proper functionality. It is a bummer since AE is the standardized tool for comping mograph.

apfxpunk
12-07-2012, 04:38 PM
I have made a particle simulation in maya. I want to render them in maya.
here is my problem.

1)I am unable to export lifespanPP attribute to Krakatoa.

*I used realflow bin exporter. and imported in Prt loader. I get age but no lifeSpanPP.

I want to fade particles as they die.
so i was trying to use age divided by LifespanPP. As i dont have lifespanPP i cant do that. is there any work around for this.

I have also used Maya 2 krakatoa plugin. but it does not have age and lifespanPP

i will really appreciate your help.

thanks

apfxpunk
12-07-2012, 05:52 PM
I have made a particle simulation in maya. I want to render them in krakatoa *

Bobo
12-08-2012, 07:45 AM
I have made a particle simulation in maya. I want to render them in Krakatoa.
here is my problem.

1)I am unable to export lifespanPP attribute to Krakatoa.

*I used realflow bin exporter. and imported in Prt loader. I get age but no lifeSpanPP.

I want to fade particles as they die.
so i was trying to use age divided by LifespanPP. As i dont have lifespanPP i cant do that. is there any work around for this.

I have also used Maya 2 krakatoa plugin. but it does not have age and lifespanPP

i will really appreciate your help.

thanks

I am assuming you are talking about Krakatoa MX (3ds Max) and not the Krakatoa MY Beta for Maya.

A possible workaround would be to do the calculation via an expression in Maya itself. For example if the Color channel is not being used for anything creative, you could set up a Ramp expression that changes the color from white to black over the age of the particle, and use that in a Magma modifier to convert the Color gradient to Density and replace the Color with something else.

Right now the lifespanPP is not being saved even by the current Krakatoa for Maya build's PRT saver we are working on. I will talk to the developer to see if we can put that in at some point. IMHO any channel available in Maya should be supported for saving, even if it does not have an obvious Krakatoa use. lifespanPP makes sense in the context of Magma channel editing, but we don't have Magma in Krakatoa for Maya just yet.

apfxpunk
12-08-2012, 11:05 PM
I am assuming you are talking about Krakatoa MX (3ds Max) and not the Krakatoa MY Beta for Maya.

A possible workaround would be to do the calculation via an expression in Maya itself. For example if the Color channel is not being used for anything creative, you could set up a Ramp expression that changes the color from white to black over the age of the particle, and use that in a Magma modifier to convert the Color gradient to Density and replace the Color with something else.

Right now the lifespanPP is not being saved even by the current Krakatoa for Maya build's PRT saver we are working on. I will talk to the developer to see if we can put that in at some point. IMHO any channel available in Maya should be supported for saving, even if it does not have an obvious Krakatoa use. lifespanPP makes sense in the context of Magma channel editing, but we don't have Magma in Krakatoa for Maya just yet.

Thanks Bobo. :) you are always a great help. Yes I am using Krakatoa Mx(3ds max) I will try that out on monday at work. I am pretty sure gradient should work out.

As I already have age attribute in my PRT loader, I was also wondering if there is anything i can do the recall final age of each particle and store that in an channel. so basically if i can recall final age i will have lifespanPP. Its just something I thought could be helpful to have it. And you will be the best person to answer this question.

thanks again Bobo :)

Bobo
12-09-2012, 07:41 AM
As I already have age attribute in my PRT loader, I was also wondering if there is anything i can do the recall final age of each particle and store that in an channel. so basically if i can recall final age i will have lifespanPP. Its just something I thought could be helpful to have it. And you will be the best person to answer this question.

Well, you need a way to save the lifespanPP, and from your initial post it is obvious you cannot. In theory, a PRT file can contain arbitrary channels, but in the case of Maya, it depends on what the developer of the PRT saver plugin has mapped from Maya channels to Krakatoa channels. You could modify the open source Maya PRT saver to add that channel if you feel inclined (and have the necessary knowledge).
And as I mentioned, even our upcoming Krakatoa MY does not save the lifespan channel right now (although I think it should). If you are using the BIN file saving, you probably have even less control over what gets saved since the BIN file has a relatively strict data channel structure.
Use the Gradient workaround for now, and I will see if I can get the Krakatoa MY developers to add support for more channels including lifespanPP. As I explained in my previous post, saving lifespanPP makes little sense within Krakatoa MY because it is not used directly by the renderer, and there is no Magma support yet. But when sharing data with Krakatoa MX, it makes perfect sense together with Age...

apfxpunk
12-09-2012, 11:21 AM
well Said Bobo.. thanks for all your input and time.. I have learned a lot from your post as usual :)

ShortFuseNZ
12-10-2012, 02:57 AM
I have a Realflow Simualtion using Hybrido with a boat hull moving through it. Is there any info using Krakatoa on how to cull or delete particles that have little motion or are static. The idea being I can render particles that have motion white to create the effect of underwater foam.

Bobo
12-10-2012, 07:36 AM
I have a Realflow Simualtion using Hybrido with a boat hull moving through it. Is there any info using Krakatoa on how to cull or delete particles that have little motion or are static. The idea being I can render particles that have motion white to create the effect of underwater foam.

In theory, the Velocity channel of the BIN files created in RealFlow should be enough to do that. Have you looked at this tutorial which discusses a similar situation?
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krakatoa-realflow-and-frost

You can ignore the Frost/PRT Volume multiplication part but use the "Isolating Foam By Velocity" part. Instead of or in addition to setting the Density, you could also set the Selection channel to (1.0-Density) and drop a Krakatoa Delete to delete particles with Density of 0...

ShortFuseNZ
12-10-2012, 11:25 PM
Thank you Bobo, your assistance is legendary. I had read that tutorial but never made the connection to use it in that manner. Will post up some results when Real Flow has finished simulating, give it a few months.

wxyz
12-13-2012, 01:53 PM
Hi there,

first of all, I did google. A lot. But after all the effort, couldn't find the solution to correctly open Krakatoa rendered files with an alpha channel in AE. This "solution" doesn't work:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=6980981&postcount=1409
...tried it and, although it does look ok at first, as soon as you add any layer behind it (even pure black!!) the premultiplied alpha just eats away all of the fine details.

Besides that, I tried tga, exr, tif. Tried gamma and no gamma in Max. Tried with or without color profiles in AE. Tried 32bit...

So, please, once again - has anyone ever successfully opened a krakatoa rendered file with alpha in AE, so it looks exactly like in VFB?

Thanks.
What he said

bkravi
12-15-2012, 04:49 PM
Hi Bobo,

Is it possible to randomize the sizes of the Krakatoa particles?

Thanks

Bobo
12-15-2012, 09:32 PM
Hi Bobo,

Is it possible to randomize the sizes of the Krakatoa particles?

Thanks

Not directly. Krakatoa particles are points which affect one or more pixels depending on the filtering mode. A particle with low density will generally appear sub-pixel sized. A Particle drawn with Bilinear filter can be blurred over many pixels, but you have no per-particle control over that. Same applies to drawing with DOF where particles out of focus can appear as larger circles, but you cannot control that per particle.

It is possible to create a small sphere cloud of particles, assign to another cloud using PRT Cloner and control the scale of these "spheres" via the Scaling channel. But this can be very expensive if you replace each of one million particles with 100 particles...

This question comes up very often and we have it on our Wishlist for future versions of Krakatoa. But in general it is not part of the current design.

bkravi
12-20-2012, 06:40 PM
Thanks a lot Bobo! it will be great to also see per particle color, velocity randomization in future versions.

Thank you for Great tool and continues Support! Merry Christmas and happy holidays!

Bobo
12-20-2012, 10:48 PM
Thanks a lot Bobo! it will be great to also see per particle color

What do you mean?
There is already per-particle Color (and per-particle anything, really, including Emission, Absorption, Density, SpecularPower, SpecularLevel) and pretty much every parameter available in the Shading settings. Most of these are accessible through Magma and can be controlled also by Max Standard Materials and Maps.

Am I missing something?

bkravi
12-21-2012, 03:35 AM
What do you mean?
There is already per-particle Color (and per-particle anything, really, including Emission, Absorption, Density, SpecularPower, SpecularLevel) and pretty much every parameter available in the Shading settings. Most of these are accessible through Magma and can be controlled also by Max Standard Materials and Maps.

Am I missing something?


Hi Bobo

my mistake, I didn't knew that these channels are per particle already!

Its great, Thank you!

zoubein
01-03-2013, 09:53 PM
hey all particle junkies.

for some reason I cannot get particle shadows on my geometry, I have gone through the process a few times and the shadow files are being created they seem to be coming out blank , and when I switch renders to scanline I am not getting any shadows.

I have 4 prt objects, I have 3 lights one shadow casting, set to kraktoa shadows and I have save attenuation on. The paths are all ok, but still no shadows, I feel like i am missing something simple here. Using Max 2012 latest build of Krakatoa MX

zoubein
01-03-2013, 10:11 PM
hey all particle junkies.

for some reason I cannot get particle shadows on my geometry, I have gone through the process a few times and the shadow files are being created they seem to be coming out blank , and when I switch renders to scanline I am not getting any shadows.

I have 4 prt objects, I have 3 lights one shadow casting, set to kraktoa shadows and I have save attenuation on. The paths are all ok, but still no shadows, I feel like i am missing something simple here. Using Max 2012 latest build of Krakatoa MX

Ok I guess i didn't know this but it seems to be fine when you render the sequence but the shadows dont show up when you just render a single frame.

silwerfeldt
01-25-2013, 09:07 AM
Iīm having trouble rendering realflow splashes with 2 matte objects (fbx object from maya). The splashes looks cool (rendered as voxels). My problem is that my matte object is way to jagged. I have turbosmooth on my objects and tried raising the supersampling but I see no difference between 1 and 10...

Iīve read about the Render elements and tried to set upp krakatoa occludedLayer and made sure that save multiple layers are checked in Matte objects.

When I render there is nothing in the occludedLayer and the render looks the same. The velocity and z-depth looks fine....

What can i do to make the matte object smooth?

Iīm on max 2013 and using the latest Beta

Bobo
01-25-2013, 10:49 PM
When I render there is nothing in the occludedLayer and the render looks the same. The velocity and z-depth looks fine....

I was able to reproduce the problem. It works in Particle mode, but in Voxel mode the OccludedLayer seems to produce nothing.

I have logged it as a bug and we will check to see what is causing that.
Thank you for reporting it!

silwerfeldt
01-28-2013, 10:59 AM
I was able to reproduce the problem. It works in Particle mode, but in Voxel mode the OccludedLayer seems to produce nothing.

I have logged it as a bug and we will check to see what is causing that.
Thank you for reporting it!
Thanks a bunch I didnīt report it becasue it was the first time I used Occluded layer and was unsure if i did it right...

Maybe i can render the splashes as particles instead...

Cheers

AdrienSliver
02-11-2013, 07:09 PM
Hi everyone, I would like to know how is it possible in max 2013 to create a collision map without TP and Snowprint (http://www.zwischendrin.com/en/detail/233) ? I'm working with a prt loader and Frost. And my goal is to create a wetmap. Could you help me ? Any script on scriptspot available for max 2012 or 2013.

Maybe Thinkbox could integrate this features ?

Thank you very much for your help :)

DeKo-LT
02-11-2013, 07:57 PM
Particle Flow have Shape Mark operator.

P.S. if you need use PRT, you can load cached PRT with Krakatoa PRT Birth Loader.

zoubein
02-12-2013, 12:05 AM
There is also a Lume stain shader that can be used.

AdrienSliver
02-12-2013, 09:45 AM
Deko thank you, I will test with the shape mark

AdrienSliver
02-17-2013, 01:17 PM
Hello guy, I'm wondering something about Krakatoa and particles about Normal attributes.

Is it possible in Krakatoa to render each particles with a normal to increase realism, like in maya with normalPP and in houdini with N attributes ? thank you a lot

Glacierise
02-17-2013, 04:07 PM
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krakatoa-channels/ :)

AdrienSliver
02-17-2013, 04:21 PM
thanks hristo, and to render normal if I'm right, I need to follow this graph
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/storage/thumbnails/8169217-15703737-thumbnail.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1324512050609 ? :)

Glacierise
02-17-2013, 04:51 PM
The viewport vector is just the lines you see in the viewport - it doesn't have a part in the rendering. But the normal is just a vector, so you can send it to the color channel.

Bobo
02-17-2013, 05:08 PM
Hello guy, I'm wondering something about Krakatoa and particles about Normal attributes.

Is it possible in Krakatoa to render each particles with a normal to increase realism, like in maya with normalPP and in houdini with N attributes ? thank you a lot

I recommend watching these, esp. the second and the third.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eudomaAnI6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhNsN289pcU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xOR_jqDhME

Also note that you can get the Perturb channel of a texture map and add it to the Normal via Magma to render Bump Mapping...

Note that Normals will be used automatically if Krakatoa is switched to Phong Shading mode or set to calculate environment reflection maps. In Krakatoa MX 2, you can even raytrace the environment and matte objects.
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krakatoa-raytaced-reflections
No Magma is needed for that...

Krakatoa assumes the X axis of the particle's orientation as the Normal, so if using PFlow or TP, you have to orient your particles respectively, for example by the surface normals. When rendering PRT Volumes, the Normals are acquired automatically.

AdrienSliver
02-17-2013, 05:38 PM
@Glacierise, thank you for your explanations about the previous graph

@bobo, thank you also for your help, I will watch this videos.

Actually I'm working with Naiad, I've exported my particles with Normal attributes, and load them into max with a prt loader. That's why I would like a normal on my splash particles.

In order to render normal, if I'm right I must use : phong surface only ? without using magma modifier

Bobo
02-17-2013, 06:48 PM
Actually I'm working with Naiad, I've exported my particles with Normal attributes, and load them into max with a prt loader. That's why I would like a normal on my splash particles.

In order to render normal, if I'm right I must use : phong surface only ? without using magma modifier

Depends on what you want to do with the Normals :)
If you want specular highlights, the Phong Surface mode might be what you want.
If you want to tweak the look based on the normal direction relative to light without taking the camera into account (Lambert shading by the cosine of the angle), you could do that with Magma. You CAN implement Phong with Magma if you want to do something special to it not available in the built in shader.

Are you using Krakatoa 1.6 or 2.0+?
In the latter case, you should be using the new Magma modifier and not the old KCM one...

AdrienSliver
02-17-2013, 07:50 PM
I'm working on krakatoa 2.1 with the new magmaflow modifier.

Actually, I'm searching how to create interesting result in order to create realistic splash like this : http://www.oceansandaquaculture.org/wallpapers/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/shark_jump.jpg

I'm not an expert with magmaflow for the moment, but I'm learning it since few weeks.
My particles data are : Position, Velocity, Droplet, ID, Age, Normal, Color, Density.

So I'm open to follow your advices bobo. :)

jigu
02-18-2013, 06:19 AM
I'm working on krakatoa 2.1 with the new magmaflow modifier.

Actually, I'm searching how to create interesting result in order to create realistic splash like this : http://www.oceansandaquaculture.org/wallpapers/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/shark_jump.jpg

I'm not an expert with magmaflow for the moment, but I'm learning it since few weeks.
My particles data are : Position, Velocity, Droplet, ID, Age, Normal, Color, Density.

So I'm open to follow your advices bobo. :)

Well from that image, it looks like less spray/foam type thing. I am not sure about using magmaflow to color particles But you can use some absorption and emission in krakatoa to get nice scattering in those particles.

Apart from that I would use Frost for meshing (I believe you use naiad so probably you could have separate Splash PRT object?) Frost will work best and give you really nice mesh.

And for shading, If you would use mentalray, you can try A&D material with 0.0 diffuse value and 1.0 for reflection and 1.0 for refraction and turn on "self illumination" for A&D material and set its value in unitless and adjust value for your need, 0.4 or 0.3 or maybe more you would need. That's what I did in this video I created : https://vimeo.com/46018322
And yes forgot to mention, that you can also add up slow moving animated noise map as bump map in A&D material, this way you can break down splash into more details.

But make sure to use real 3d motionblur for the trick. I am not sure about settings in vray, but I suppose you can use SSS in vray or achieve same material using it.

AdrienSliver
02-18-2013, 03:27 PM
thank's a lot jigu, this morning I have test frost for my splash particles and the render with vray is interesting, you're right. So I will use krakatoa for the foam and frost for splash when I'm near the camera. :beer:

jigu
02-19-2013, 05:12 AM
thank's a lot jigu, this morning I have test frost for my splash particles and the render with vray is interesting, you're right. So I will use krakatoa for the foam and frost for splash when I'm near the camera. :beer:

Looking forward to your test. :)

Though as you brought this to shading with Krakatoa, It would be interesting to see if Krakatoa supports refractive shading now? Or if there is any plan for future? Are there any tests done with Krakatoa before for refractive shading?

AdrienSliver
02-19-2013, 10:05 AM
This is my test
http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/dSA9I.jpg

I'm going to continue my tests :)

boumay
03-07-2013, 06:41 PM
Hello,
I'm working on an earth scene and wondering the best technique to get realistic clouds.
I was thinking that krakatoa would be adequate, but I would to know if it is doable.
I wanted to use the old magma preset of clouds applied to prt volume of a sphere with alpha map to create holes.
What do you think? Or is there a better approach?
Thank you.

Wirginia
03-16-2013, 02:38 AM
Hi,

I started with Krakatoa not long time ago and jumped straight to deep water. Most of things work fine. I followed these tutorials:
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krak-image-plane-dissolve/
http://www.studiodaily.com/2009/04/disintegrate-geometry-objects-using-frantic-films-krakatoa-and-autodesk-3ds-max/

And there is just one thing I can't figure out. Every time I render sequence at some point in simulation I get particles in two places - on the original position (where mesh was) and blown by wind. When I render just single frame it renders fine. What I'm doing wrong?

Thank you.

Wirginia
03-17-2013, 09:28 AM
I just found what I have done wrong - Saving too many frames of cash and then using them as PRT loader in PFlow confused Krakatoa. Looks like it doesn't like to be told what to do with particles twice.

rusty149
03-19-2013, 07:22 PM
Hello All,

I have a FumeFX sim that I am trying to kill off towards the end using density, I want to use the Velocity Channel or temp ect to do this, and am getting a bit stuck in MagmaFlow.

I can set up all the velocity fine in Magmaflow, and I have also been through the documentation on the Thinkbox site about density and age - but can't work out how to apply those principles to making it work with density.

My Super basic setup below...

My Basic MagmaFlow (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57876772@N03/8572104438/)


Anyhelp would be massively appreciated!

Thanks,
Rusty

zoubein
03-19-2013, 10:03 PM
_____________

zoubein
03-19-2013, 10:04 PM
@Rusty

I think what you are missing is the node converting the velocity to magnitude before you divide with the float.

mcflait
03-21-2013, 04:59 PM
Someone knows, how render 360 degrees in Krakatoa? i have added a Krakatoa camera, with override fov at 360 but my 360 is not the same that my vray 360 render.

silwerfeldt
04-04-2013, 09:49 AM
Iīm trying to render out splashes from realflow. I have a corridor as matteobject and iīm trying to render the splashes out without have the corridor to cast shadows on the krakatoa particles.

It seems like krakatoa donīt care if i set the object properties to not cast shadows...

How do i have an object as matteobject and at the same time not to have it cast shadows..

Cheers and thanks in advance

**UPDATE** I got it working after a MAX crash... It worked when i restarted the scene?..

zoubein
04-04-2013, 12:17 PM
Did you try excluding the walls from casting shadows from the light itself through the include/exclude?

VladimirStefanovic
05-21-2013, 11:24 AM
Hey guys, can you help me out on converting input density channel to a output color in MagmaFlow?

I already tried and made both a magnitude and a velocity test and although they look good in static frames, it doesn't look as realistic in motion, as its a slow motion splash from a cup, soon as the liquid reaches its highest "peak" before gravity takes over, frost changes color from white(foam) back to black(liquid) and then back to white as it starts falling...

And I can't find any explanation on how to set density to color, or any better method?

Thanks :)

Glacierise
05-21-2013, 12:55 PM
You should keep in mind that Krakatoa is history independent - you can't use a previous state to define a following state. If you want to shade based on some events that happen with your particles (as opposed to some of their properties in the current moment), it would be better to mark these events with some datachannel coming from the simulation.

VladimirStefanovic
05-21-2013, 01:22 PM
You should keep in mind that Krakatoa is history independent - you can't use a previous state to define a following state. If you want to shade based on some events that happen with your particles (as opposed to some of their properties in the current moment), it would be better to mark these events with some datachannel coming from the simulation.
How would you go about doing that in realflow(we are not using hybrido)? We have two separate systems - one for foam and one for liquid.
Liquid was simulated first and cashed, and then added foam reacts to falling ice cubes depending on liquid cash.
We are trying to get a gradient on the thinnest points of foam. Also we are using .prt files if that makes any difference.

Thanks!

Glacierise
05-21-2013, 02:38 PM
I think you might be able to do thinness by getting the number of particles around a particle, with the ParticleSumCount node. I'd try that :) On the Realflow side - I haven't really used it much :)

VladimirStefanovic
05-22-2013, 10:31 AM
I think you might be able to do thinness by getting the number of particles around a particle, with the ParticleSumCount node. I'd try that :) On the Realflow side - I haven't really used it much :)

Well I'm trying what you said but i have no idea on how is that supposed to look in magma flow to have it working :\

Glacierise
05-23-2013, 06:57 AM
I'm traveling now, remind me in a couple weeks and I'll help out ;)

silwerfeldt
05-31-2013, 01:22 PM
Can i use .f3d format i krakatoa (or frost)?
Realflow 2013 can export those out and since they are compressed they good be a big disk saver...

cheers

zoubein
05-31-2013, 01:35 PM
Probably in the future but I dont think it would right now as it is new.

boumay
06-22-2013, 08:08 AM
Hello
I was wondering if there were some ressources in this, perhaps some users who may have put online ready-made presets for making smoke, fire etc, for the people who don't manage to use magma flow correctly. For example, the cloudFlow1.kmf and 2, are very useful if I want to make clouds, etc.
I like krakatoa but I really have hard time using magma flow and I know that I could get a lot more of it.
Presets could be a solution for this problem.
Thank you

zoubein
06-22-2013, 01:19 PM
Have you seen these?

http://forums.thinkboxsoftware.com/viewforum.php?f=56

boumay
06-22-2013, 07:29 PM
thanks for that, but I think I had these, some new presets are there but it's kind of limited ressources. So are the tutorials btw.
I think krakatoa remains a difficult software and there aren't much people teaching it online like we find for ffx or pflow or any aspect of 3dsmax. Sure there are the webinars but, and alongside the fact that I thank thinkbox for make those, it's not enough to grasp the software. It also seems that professionals know how to use it but we don't benefit from this knowledge sadly. It's strange since krakatoa isn't so new on the market, and since it appears that every vfx user possesses it...

Bobo
06-23-2013, 07:40 AM
thanks for that, but I think I had these, some new presets are there but it's kind of limited ressources. So are the tutorials btw.
I think krakatoa remains a difficult software and there aren't much people teaching it online like we find for ffx or pflow or any aspect of 3dsmax. Sure there are the webinars but, and alongside the fact that I thank thinkbox for make those, it's not enough to grasp the software. It also seems that professionals know how to use it but we don't benefit from this knowledge sadly. It's strange since krakatoa isn't so new on the market, and since it appears that every vfx user possesses it...

The way I see it: The problem with Magma (and pretty much every other similar system including Particle Flow, Thinking Particles etc.) is that it is a LEGO-like toolset. So the number of things one could do with it is quite huge, and it is impossible to cover every possible solution someone might require.

Thus, the only reasonable solution is to teach the user "how to fish" instead of feeding him fish dishes ;) While most existing tutorials show a specific use, the main goal of them is not to teach you how to change Color by Age and Life Span for example, but how to use Magma as a problem-solving tool. Having ready-made presets might be useful, but in most cases the end user will learn nothing from having them. He will drop them in the scene, use them and fail to learn how and why they work... That's my experience.

Btw, this is totally true for learning MAXScript, Python or C++ programming - examples might get you started, but what really makes you good is experimenting and trying out new things. Over time, you learn what is there and how it can be combined in new creative ways to solve more and more problems.

So my suggestion is - find something you want to do. Try to do it. Fail. Go to the forums and ask specific questions about your failure. Try again. Repeat.

If you find that something should have been documented but was not, or is misleading, let us know. We get some fantastic feedback, mostly from Japanese users, who follow the steps in the tutorials and complain if there is anything that does not make perfect sense. It is very difficult to look at the documentation and tutorials through the eyes of the end user who knows nothing about the subject, so that kind of feedback is very appreciated!

Thanks for the feedback!

boumay
06-23-2013, 11:32 PM
Glad if I can help.
Thank you for your advices. The problem for me is that I don't have the time to practice this trial/error process since I have other parts of the production to manage, that's why I really apreciate the cloud preset for example. I only have the time to learn the minimum necessary to achieve my goal.
Anyway I did manage to get pretty good results with krakatoa sometimes, and that was sufficient for me.

apfxpunk
06-25-2013, 10:07 PM
Hey I wanted to know how can i project video on particle. I would really appreciate if anyone can help me with a solution for krakatoa maya. But if its not possible in maya. than even in max would also be great.

thanks

Bobo
06-26-2013, 04:01 AM
Hey I wanted to know how can i project video on particle. I would really appreciate if anyone can help me with a solution for krakatoa maya. But if its not possible in maya. than even in max would also be great.

thanks

Right now, there are several ways to do camera projection in Krakatoa MX, but none in Krakatoa for Maya. We hope to have a solution around Siggraph, but we will have to wait and see.

apfxpunk
06-26-2013, 01:43 PM
ok thanks Bobo.. :)

silwerfeldt
06-26-2013, 02:45 PM
We recently changed from realflow 2012 to 2013 and i have a max scene where I render splashparticles using krakatoa with a Magma color density and render out voxels.

When I test the new realflow 2013 splashes I get nothing when i render using voxels but i can clearly see them when i render particles.

Have somebody experienced this?

Cheers
Daniel

Bobo
06-26-2013, 10:16 PM
We recently changed from realflow 2012 to 2013 and i have a max scene where I render splashparticles using krakatoa with a Magma color density and render out voxels.

When I test the new realflow 2013 splashes I get nothing when i render using voxels but i can clearly see them when i render particles.

Have somebody experienced this?

Cheers
Daniel

First thing to try is - set the Final Pass Density to a very high exponent (like 30) and see if anything changes. If you start seeing the voxels, try reducing the exponent until it looks good.

If you still don't see anything, I would suggest sending us a test scene and one representative particle file so we can look at the data.

Normally, if Particle mode works, Voxel mode should have no problem either. But the way the Density is mapped is different, so it is possible you are getting close to 0 density in Voxel mode, hence the suggestion above...

silwerfeldt
07-03-2013, 12:11 PM
First thing to try is - set the Final Pass Density to a very high exponent (like 30) and see if anything changes. If you start seeing the voxels, try reducing the exponent until it looks good.

If you still don't see anything, I would suggest sending us a test scene and one representative particle file so we can look at the data.

Normally, if Particle mode works, Voxel mode should have no problem either. But the way the Density is mapped is different, so it is possible you are getting close to 0 density in Voxel mode, hence the suggestion above...

Sorry for not answering untli now.. I talked with the Realflow guys and apparently they have changed the Bin format in realflow 2013 and that Thinkbox propably need to update the Bin loader to get the correct values... In the meantime I export my splash partcles in Realflow directly as Prt files and that should work... Edit PRT particles works fine!

By the way If I crank up the Density it still render black and the particles look really strange in 3ds max viewport also.. something is wrong...(this is with the Bin particles..)

deathstone
07-25-2013, 02:09 PM
Hi there. I'm rendering prt cache with krakatoa, enebled matte object checkbox and using depth map file sequence from v-ray. I got this error: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/yvqc.jpg/

Bobo
07-25-2013, 04:11 PM
Hi there. I'm rendering prt cache with krakatoa, enebled matte object checkbox and using depth map file sequence from v-ray. I got this error: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/yvqc.jpg/


That was a bug that was fixed last October. Try updating to v2.1.8.
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krakatoa-downloads/builds-beta/
2.2.0 is also coming out soon.

apfxpunk
07-29-2013, 02:25 PM
Hello Bobo,
Again Krakatoa MY question.

I have zdepth enabled but there is no information in the output file of exr.
Any help on this would be great.
Thank You

Ap

TrexGreg
07-29-2013, 07:40 PM
Hope i'm not hijacking the thread...

So, i have a RealFlow Foam sim exported in PRT format and i'd like to do is Magma-Select those particles that have less than say 5 particles as close neighbors and use a Krakatoa Delete to remove them. The idea is to remove the sparse particle areas and keep only the high density ones, to better describe the foam...

It would be really helpful if anyone can describe or share the Magma flow for this problem...

Thanks in advance...

Bobo
07-30-2013, 03:45 PM
Hello Bobo,
Again Krakatoa MY question.

I have zdepth enabled but there is no information in the output file of exr.
Any help on this would be great.
Thank You

Ap

Can you upload an EXR and a Maya scene that shows the problem? Or send them to bobo AT thinkboxsoftware DOT com.

Also please report the version of KMY you are running...

Bobo
07-30-2013, 03:52 PM
Hope i'm not hijacking the thread...

So, i have a RealFlow Foam sim exported in PRT format and i'd like to do is Magma-Select those particles that have less than say 5 particles as close neighbors and use a Krakatoa Delete to remove them. The idea is to remove the sparse particle areas and keep only the high density ones, to better describe the foam...

It would be really helpful if anyone can describe or share the Magma flow for this problem...

Thanks in advance...

Unfortunately, there is a little limitation in this case - Magma currently does not allow the sampling of the neighbors within the active stream. So you have to work around it by duplicating the PRT Loader and using the copy as the stream to sample.

The flow would look like this:
*Create an Object>ParticleSumRadius operator, drag from its two sockets to make an InputParticles and a Position in world space. Pick the copy of the PRT Loader as InputParticles source.
*In the ParticleSumRadius, enter the Radius you consider "near".
*Connect a Logic>Less operator to the NumParticles output and set the second input of the Less to an Integer InputValue with the threshold count, e.g. 5
*Select the Less operator and press the Convert To Float button.
*Connect the ToFloat operator to an OUT:Selection node.
*Add a Krakatoa Delete modifier to the stack.

Note that the current particle will always find itself in the copy stream, so you might want to count one particle more - when you are looking for less than 5 neighbors, consider comparing to 6. Or use LessOrEqual in place of Less.

We have the ability to sample the current stream on our wishlist, but it is not trivial.

TrexGreg
07-30-2013, 10:34 PM
Thanks so much for stepping in....
I'll try this asap and report back results/problems..

Thanks again....

TrexGreg
07-31-2013, 01:55 AM
Yes, it works perfectly, but boy is it slow!!
Admittedly, i do have up to 16 million particles at peak frames...
Result is great, but i'm not sure if it's worth the long evaluation time...

Anyway, thanks again for the help, Boris...
Really appreciated...
Cheers...

Siahpoosh
09-07-2013, 04:25 PM
hi bobo , i have a simulated fluid in fumefx which emitted from an object source , after simulation done i want to color that fluid at frame 0 by object source texture, then color moves with fluid , can u tell me how can i do that in magma flow

thank u

Bobo
09-29-2013, 03:03 PM
hi bobo , i have a simulated fluid in fumefx which emitted from an object source , after simulation done i want to color that fluid at frame 0 by object source texture, then color moves with fluid , can u tell me how can i do that in magma flow

thank u

Sorry for the late answer, you posted while I was on vacation. Next time please post on the Thinkbox Support Forums if you want someone to deal with your problem in a timely manner!

Unfortunately, you cannot do what you described using Magma since it is History-Independent and calculates its data on each frame independently.
You can do it using Stoke assuming you want to emit new particles driven by the FumeFX simulation, or using Particle Flow, just a lot slower.

TrexGreg
10-06-2013, 09:19 AM
Hello again, Boris...
Will you be so kind and share the workflow on how to use Magma to texture map the first frame of a particle sequence using camera projection mapping and have that texture map stick and deform along the whole particle sequence?

Thanks in advance...
Greg

Edit 1: I do use Frost to mesh that particle sequence, if this helps..
Edit 2: I REALLY do hope there's an easier path now days, than this one found here:
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krak-camera-mapping-particles/
Edit 3: The PRT sequence came from RealFlow, so it's a predefined sequence regarding the motion of the particles, if this helps clarify my situation.

TrexGreg
10-06-2013, 11:54 AM
Okay, using a carefully placed TexMap input onto the particles i can get the projection map to stick onto the particles throughout the sequence. I can see it working fine using the PRTViewportColor option.
But, as soon as i change the PRTViewportColor to Mapping2, in order to transfer the mapping onto Frost, everything getting weird, like the pics below:
http://s21.postimg.org/yuz10ok6f/Mapping.jpg
I'm absolutely it's user error and i'm doing it all wrong, so some help here would be much appreciated...

Thanks...

Bobo
10-06-2013, 05:25 PM
But, as soon as i change the PRTViewportColor to Mapping2, in order to transfer the mapping onto Frost...

What do you get if you change PRTViewportColor to Color instead of Mapping2? The Color channel is automatically transferred as VertexColor channel to Frost.

TrexGreg
10-07-2013, 11:40 AM
What do you get if you change PRTViewportColor to Color instead of Mapping2? The Color channel is automatically transferred as VertexColor channel to Frost.

Thanks for replying!

Maybe i should mention that the left image shows the PRTViewportColor as seen onto the particles directly, where the right image shows the result onto the Frost mesh.
Using either PRTViewportColor or Color on the particles the image shows correctly.
But, i can't get the Frost to show that Vertex Color; shows instead red/blue gradient values.
It should be the 0 Vertex Color slot, right?

Edit1: Hold on a sec! I may be on to something!
Edit2: Okay! If i use Mapping 2 in the Magma output and then use Map Channel 2 for the Vertex Color of the Frost mesh, THEN i can get it to show the image correctly!
Let's see how that works...
Edit3: Yes, image is locked onto the Frost mesh and gets altered along with the fluid's changes. Not the most efficient workflow, but it works... :)

Bobo
10-10-2013, 04:22 PM
Using either PRTViewportColor or Color on the particles the image shows correctly.


Just to reiterate to avoid any future confusion - the PRTViewportColor channel is meant to visualize data on the PRT object's particles ONLY, and in the Viewport only (hence the name). It does not propagate beyond the object. It cannot be used for passing data to other systems like the renderer, the material/mapping system, or Frost.

This means that you can have one Output node setting the Color channel to some value, and another Output node setting the PRTViewportColor channel to another value. The viewports will show the latter, the renderer (and other sub-systems) will see the Color channel.

This is useful when you want to preview some data (e.g. "What does my Normal channel look like as color") without rendering that display data in the final output...

Glad it worked with Mapping2. It should have worked with Color (Map Channel 0) too, but it is possible that it was being overwritten somewhere.

TrexGreg
10-14-2013, 10:31 PM
Thank you, Boris...
Always appreciate your input and help!

Thanks again!
Greg

silwerfeldt
12-05-2013, 05:58 PM
Is it possible to render a fumeFX grid with for example 2 object sources shooting out smoke that uses the color channel so I get green and red smoke that mixes together in Krakatoa?

I donīt see any option in Krakatoa to use the color channel from FumeFX..

Thanks in advance!

boumay
12-11-2013, 04:32 PM
Hello,
I was wondering if we could get such an information from krakatoa to use in compositing software for relighting etc, since it has krakatoa recognizes the 3dsmax world as a volume with the center being at the 0,0,0 of the grid, and the 4 colors indicating where the particles are.
I hope you understood what I mean, because I'm a newbie both in krakatoa and deep compositing even more, so I may not express the point very well.

Bobo
12-12-2013, 03:57 AM
Is it possible to render a fumeFX grid with for example 2 object sources shooting out smoke that uses the color channel so I get green and red smoke that mixes together in Krakatoa?

I donīt see any option in Krakatoa to use the color channel from FumeFX..

Thanks in advance!

Accessing the Color channel of FumeFX required an updated FumeFX SDK. With FumeFX 3.5.x and the upcoming Krakatoa v2.3 and Stoke 2.0, you will be able to access that. Both products are currently in Beta, but we haven't posted even the Beta builds with Color support yet. Stay tuned...

Of course, you could assign your own colors to the two simulations using Magma or materials...

Bobo
12-12-2013, 04:02 AM
Hello,
I was wondering if we could get such an information from krakatoa to use in compositing software for relighting etc, since it has krakatoa recognizes the 3dsmax world as a volume with the center being at the 0,0,0 of the grid, and the 4 colors indicating where the particles are.
I hope you understood what I mean, because I'm a newbie both in krakatoa and deep compositing even more, so I may not express the point very well.

First of all, Krakatoa can output floating point data to OpenEXR, so even though the pixels might appear the wrong color, the RGB values would contain actual world positions.

Second, you can create any custom Render Element using a simple (or not so simple) Magma flow. The main limitation is that these Render Elements will only contain information about the closest particle to the camera, not deep information. Also, you have to disable filtering in order to get unaltered values. Depending on the filtering mode, this would cause 1 pixel (Nearest), 3x3 pixels (Bicubic), or NxN (Bilinear) pixels to be covered with the same value.

We are looking into adding OpenEXR 2.0 support which allows deep data to be stored and loaded in Nuke etc. So right now you could create a single depth pass with whatever data you want, but you wouldn't be able to ask about values behind the closest particle occupying a pixel. In future versions with OpenEXR 2.0 support, you might be able to do that...

Hope this helps.

boumay
12-12-2013, 01:10 PM
Thank you.
Looking forward for exr 2.0 implementation...

nidas
01-07-2014, 07:06 AM
Accessing the Color channel of FumeFX required an updated FumeFX SDK. With FumeFX 3.5.x and the upcoming Krakatoa v2.3 and Stoke 2.0, you will be able to access that. Both products are currently in Beta, but we haven't posted even the Beta builds with Color support yet. Stay tuned...

Of course, you could assign your own colors to the two simulations using Magma or materials...

Thanks for your reply and Iīm really looking forward to 2.3. I can see that Krakatoa MY is now 2.3.. Can I render PRT FumeFX using FumeFX color channel with My 2.3?

Any release date for MX 2.3?

Iīm creating smoke from a logo that disperse in a circular way.

I canīt just do 2 sims in FumeFX since I need the smoke to interact.. So I have 3 different colors I get from maps (Logo with some shading in it..) and the best for me would be to render them with PRT FumeFX to get a little bit more dusty look and not the FumeFX smoke look..

Maybe I can sim 3 times with 1 logo color (red for example) and the other 2 logo colors I make black do that three times one for each color and do a Magma modifier and delete all the black colored particles..

Any smarter idea.. Can I use the FumeFX Fluid mapping to later in magma map the logo colors and render in PRT fumeFX?

hardikpatelanim
01-09-2014, 09:05 PM
Hey Bobo,

I am using krakatoa for maya. I am having issue with they particles flickering pattern. i have filter of 3 in density and shawow pass. Paricles are in a shape of a human body and the body is animated. so the particles are goal to the body and they move along with the body. I cannot use prt volume as i have design on the body.

Scene details

i am using three omni light in the scene, about half million particles in prt.
self shadow filter:bilinear ==self shadow filter size 3==lightning pas density 5=exponent -4
draw point filter Bilinear=== final pass filter size 3=== final pass density 8== exponent -2


thanks

Bobo
01-12-2014, 08:32 PM
Hey Bobo,

I am using krakatoa for maya
Could you please post this on the thinkbox support forums, with pictures if possible?

AdrienSliver
01-27-2014, 04:49 PM
Hello guys, I would like to cull particles by velocity and I'm a little bit stuck in the magma modifier.

I know how to cull particle by velocity or position along an axis with this documentation : http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krak-culling-particles-using-s/ but when I remove ToScalar and Integer to cull particles in every axis, my output selection doesn't work. Could you help me on KCM or Magma Modifier ?

Thank you very much. :)

Edit : I think I have found a solution with this graph :

Input :Velocity > Magnitude > Divide > Less > ToFloat > Output Selection
Input Float > (into second Divide input)

zoubein
01-27-2014, 06:06 PM
This also works, not sure if its right

Velocity>Magnitude>LessOrEqual>Selection. And put a float in the second input of the LessorEqual to set the threshold.

AdrienSliver
01-27-2014, 08:50 PM
It works perfectly, and it's a little bit more easier to setup, thank's a lot zoubein !

d4rk3lf
01-28-2014, 10:31 AM
Started to learn Krakatoa...

Quick question:
(couldn't google this out)

Is it possible that I have 2 (or more) Pflow setups with different Krakatoa render settings (density, voxel/particle shading)?
For example, Pflow001 with million particles, and another with 5000 particles with voxel shading, and all render at once.
I know I could do it in post, but for some quick tests it would be great if this is possible.

One more questions while I am here:
Anyone knows how Mattias animated Krakatoa hair in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq4IAaNlris
(15 seconds).

Thanks in advance. :)

Glacierise
01-28-2014, 12:04 PM
Started to learn Krakatoa...
Is it possible that I have 2 (or more) Pflow setups with different Krakatoa render settings (density, voxel/particle shading)?
For example, Pflow001 with million particles, and another with 5000 particles with voxel shading, and all render at once.
I know I could do it in post, but for some quick tests it would be great if this is possible.

Krakatoa has these channels per particle, so you can render them if the particles contain the data. You can either write them with box3, or cache the pflow to PRT and then assign the channel data with a magma modifier.


One more questions while I am here:
Anyone knows how Mattias animated Krakatoa hair in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq4IAaNlris
(15 seconds).

Looks like wind turbulence.

jiveli! ;)

Bobo
01-28-2014, 06:13 PM
Is it possible that I have 2 (or more) Pflow setups with different Krakatoa render settings (density, voxel/particle shading)?
For example, Pflow001 with million particles, and another with 5000 particles with voxel shading, and all render at once.
I know I could do it in post, but for some quick tests it would be great if this is possible.

While you can control the Density per system (even directly from PFlow), you cannot mix particle and voxel rendering at the same time. They are two completely separate render engines and need to be run in individual passes. A lot of people use both to produce more detail through particles and a more pyroclastic look through the voxel pass, but then they have to be comped in post.

Regarding the channels, there are so many ways to control the Density per particle that I am not even sure where to start. Keep in mind that any Standard Material assigned to PFlow particles will multiply the original density (1.0 per particle) by the Opacity channel (thus allowing Opacity Mapping).

You can also set the Visibility of any particle source to less than 1.0 (although this is a bit tricky with PFlows, but it is possible).

You can also provide a Density channel directly using the Krakatoa Options operator. You simply have to check "MXSFloat->Density" and then set the Scripted Float channel accessible through the Box #3 ops or Scripted Ops to a per-particle value.

Or you could save your PFlows to PRTs first and then use Magma to control any channels by any other channels or data...


One more questions while I am here:
Anyone knows how Mattias animated Krakatoa hair in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq4IAaNlris
(15 seconds).

When that video was made, Krakatoa did not support Hair rendering, but Matthias just used spawning of particles to simulate something that looks like hair. In Krakatoa MX 2.x, you can use the PRT Hair object to turn any spline or all scene Hair&Fur to particles - we have videos showing this from 2011's Siggraph...

http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/news/2011/8/22/krakatoa-mx-2-hair-demo-from-siggraph-part-1.html
(part 2 and 3 are linked from that page, too)
The current workflow is somewhat improved, but the videos still give you an idea.

It was used to render the CG hair on digi-doubles in the SuckerPunch bullet train sequence for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Vk8f0zNv4FU#t=114

d4rk3lf
01-29-2014, 11:27 AM
@Glacierise
Hey Hristo, thanks man :) , and - živeli! :beer: :)

I've looked at some tutorials for magma flow, and gotta admit that I was a little scared with all the options in there, so my question was some quick way (if possible) to make different setups for a different particle flow systems.
Anyway, what have to be done, have to be done, and when I find some free time, I'll take a careful look at default Krakatoa tutorials, and slowly, I will learn.

@Bobo
Hey man, first of all: it's very commendable that you always find time to give a precise answer, even for noob questions like mine. As I said to Hristo, I've gotta browse through default Krakatoa tutorials, so I find answers to my noobish questions.

However, your answer is very helpfull for my early tests, and I'll try what you suggested (reducing Pflow visibility (if you mean Pflow-object properties)).

I've made a mistake, because I didn't explained what exactly I wanted.
I wanted to make something like rich starfield, with different nebulas and stuff. Now, let's say I want to use just voxel render engine (because I am able to change the size of the voxels).
Is it possible that I change the voxel size and blur properties for different Pflows? For example, first Pflow is just the stars, second is bright stars, third (with blur increased) is nebula... etc?

For the end, here's my first play with Krakatoa render (and some bad post :) ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqmNHl6RygE

Thanks to all :beer:

Bobo
01-30-2014, 07:53 AM
Zdravo, Bobane!

Let me start by saying that your first video is one of the best first-time Krakatoa tests I have ever seen. YouTube is full of bad "first Krakatoa tests" and I was very pleasantly surprised!

The voxel size is completely fixed. You cannot control the Filter Size (which controls the blurring) per voxel or per particle. So no, I would not use Voxel rendering for what you described (but you might find a way to comp multiple voxel renders together, so I won't tell you what to do, I am just saying what I wouldn't ;))

The best nebula tests I have seen (like the Matthias Mueller "The Space We Live In") were done using particle rendering. https://vimeo.com/39822385

Also, the latest version of Krakatoa provides the Repopulation feature which lets you turn a few particles into blobs of particles, or replace each base particle with a cluster of other particles via the Krakatoa PRTCloner modifier. I would start with the basic distribution of the stars and then try to use the PRTCloner to make them look like larger and smaller spheres. There is a lot of control over the size (scaling) of the individual clones, their colors and all other channels.

Just some ideas.



@Bobo
Hey man, first of all: it's very commendable that you always find time to give a precise answer, even for noob questions like mine. As I said to Hristo, I've gotta browse through default Krakatoa tutorials, so I find answers to my noobish questions.

However, your answer is very helpfull for my early tests, and I'll try what you suggested (reducing Pflow visibility (if you mean Pflow-object properties)).

I've made a mistake, because I didn't explained what exactly I wanted.
I wanted to make something like rich starfield, with different nebulas and stuff. Now, let's say I want to use just voxel render engine (because I am able to change the size of the voxels).
Is it possible that I change the voxel size and blur properties for different Pflows? For example, first Pflow is just the stars, second is bright stars, third (with blur increased) is nebula... etc?

For the end, here's my first play with Krakatoa render (and some bad post :) ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqmNHl6RygE

Thanks to all :beer:

d4rk3lf
01-30-2014, 11:56 AM
Hey Bobo - Veliki pozdrav i živeli! :)

Thanks a lot for the kind words, I hope my tests will be better in the future, and I'll keep learning stuffs. Also, thanks for your ideas, they are very helpful.

Yeah, Matthias is awesome, and I keep re-watching his tests over and over again, and also, trying to not copy him when doing my tests, which is very hard, because his tests looks really awesome, both in terms of shading, and motion.
Actually: It is hard to copy him, and it is hard not to copy him :) ... if you understand me. :)
I also like very much his test: Protos star formation.

Cheers :beer:

Debneyink
02-11-2014, 02:14 AM
Anyone know how i can tell Krakatoa to render different colors for three different pflows but without comping it in post ie all in one render?

JohnnyRandom
02-11-2014, 02:41 AM
Krakatoa used to respect the PFlow Display operator color. Is that not working?

Debneyink
02-11-2014, 02:47 AM
yep it is! i asked a question without thinking about it or trying first...but as i was conceiving the concept...cheers Random

JohnnyRandom
02-11-2014, 03:53 AM
Oh good. There was a build that didn't respect the display op, which is why I asked :)

skunk184
02-19-2014, 06:42 AM
is it possible to write data other than color and density from box#3. I can create the other channels at render time using magma on a prt loader but I am thinking it would be more efficient writing the data to 500 000 particles when partitioning. searching for a closest point on 50 000 000 particle is really slow.

Cheers

Craig

Als
02-19-2014, 01:41 PM
Hi,
Just after a while testing new krakatoa version for maya.
Main issues which should be explained in quickest, which are sort of not intuitive to figure out are:
1. How to render image sequence at all ?
2. How to change shadows (color, intensity, etc) on lights ?
3. How to get free version for life ? What I need to do ?

Bobo, can you help ?
And yes. I see. Krakatoa Maya, finally arrived!! :)

Thanks


Als

maidmen
03-20-2014, 06:47 AM
Hi
Let say, I have parent particles in Event1 with LifeSpan 0-100, and Spawn Particles in Event2 with LifeSpans=20, when I use age ratio to drive color gradient, there is taken into account 1st lifespan but not spawned particles, how to solve this problem?

zoubein
03-20-2014, 07:32 AM
Are you resetting the particle age when you spawn? I think there is a check box for this in the spawn OP.try turning it off.

maidmen
03-20-2014, 03:35 PM
Heh, I remember it was ON, it seemed to me that it is right

nmcelmury
04-02-2014, 10:54 PM
I saw this question asked over on the Thinkbox forums, but it never got a reply. After searching high and low, I turn to you good folks.

Is there a way to "tag" a particle once it has been selected in Magma flow?

I have a simulation where particles will be selected once their velocity is below a certain value, then a Delete modifier ontop of them to get rid of them.

However, at a later point in the sim, they pick up velocities again, and are thus not selected and re-appear.

Is there a way to essentially tag them once they've been selected once so they will stay deleted?

ruchitinfushion
04-14-2014, 12:50 PM
Hi, getting color issue with krakatoa magmaflow. Color looks perfect in viewport
but at render time don't know why yellow tint comes instead of white

Here is magmaflow connection
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/ruchitinfushion/KCM_zps76aff05b.png?t=1397479603

Here is Render output and Viewport snapshot
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/ruchitinfushion/RenderProblem_zps805e40fb.png?t=1397479608

Glacierise
04-14-2014, 01:34 PM
Check if you have a colored light or absorption enabled.

ruchitinfushion
04-15-2014, 01:32 AM
@Glacierise
Having only one spot light with white color & absorption is turn off.

Found reason behind this
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/ruchitinfushion/Complement_zps54b698cc.png?t=1397570758
In input Vector node,Complement color is problematic. Now tell me what is the solution for this?

Glacierise
04-16-2014, 07:42 AM
The complement color is just there for a reference, it's not being used in the rendering. Post your scene so we can take a look.

boumay
04-16-2014, 02:13 PM
Hello,
I was wondering if it is possible to lit the particles with an hdr image, and how to acheive this in the latest versions of Krakatoa. I own the 2.0.246508 version so far. I saw on this forum a post that states it is possible with a normal channel, but it is for version 1.5, I guess the technique might have changed with the newer versions.

Glacierise
04-16-2014, 02:28 PM
Read here:
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krak-environment-reflection-ma/

boumay
04-16-2014, 02:34 PM
Read here:
http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/krak-environment-reflection-ma/
Thank you for your answer and the tutorial link, very useful.
But, as far as I understood, I'm afraid this is not a lighting, but rather a reflection pass, am I wrong? What I what is having the hdr actually throwing light at the object, even if we don't use reflection.

Glacierise
04-16-2014, 02:51 PM
Nope, can't do that - it's not a good idea in the way Krakatoa is doing things, I think.

boumay
04-16-2014, 02:56 PM
Nope, can't do that - it's not a good idea in the way Krakatoa is doing things, I think.
Got it, thank you.

maidmen
04-19-2014, 04:12 PM
Hi there!
When assign some material from mateditor to PRT Volume, you lose the ability to control particle color directly ( Position channal to Color as example)
How to override scene material color or completely remove one from object?