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seb-desmet
09-08-2009, 11:50 AM
I don't quite understand the question. Can you please reformulate it, or explain in steps what you are doing, what is happening and what you want to be happening?

ok :)

I have two pflow emitters in my scene, both are emitting particles, I would like to render different cache per pflow emitter (one cache for pflow1 and one cache for pflow2)
but I'd like to do it just by clicking on save particle one time.
to avoid to wait for one cache and send the other when the first one is finished

or in other way, render all pflow in one cache like Krakatoa do but when I import the cache in the scene, I'd like to be able to access the particle from pflow1 and pflow2.

for instance to control density or color

is it possible ??


An other question is, is it possible when we use the file birth operator in pflow to load 1% of the cache ?
because I render a cache of 2 millions particles but when I loaded in my scene, the 2 millions particles are in the viewport and it's a bit slow to work with it


Thanx for your help

Bobo
09-08-2009, 05:03 PM
ok :)

I have two pflow emitters in my scene, both are emitting particles, I would like to render different cache per pflow emitter (one cache for pflow1 and one cache for pflow2)
but I'd like to do it just by clicking on save particle one time.
to avoid to wait for one cache and send the other when the first one is finished

or in other way, render all pflow in one cache like Krakatoa do but when I import the cache in the scene, I'd like to be able to access the particle from pflow1 and pflow2.

for instance to control density or color

is it possible ??


An other question is, is it possible when we use the file birth operator in pflow to load 1% of the cache ?
because I render a cache of 2 millions particles but when I loaded in my scene, the 2 millions particles are in the viewport and it's a bit slow to work with it


Thanx for your help

Currently, there is no automated feature that lets you cache each PFlow separately, but I admit it has been on the Wishlist for a while. In fact, we had the request to output each Event to a separate PRT sequence. This cannot be done at UI level only, it would require either a change in the core Krakatoa code or another change that we had planned where you could actually design your own render process (including render pass definitions etc.). The second option is on our future roadmap, the first option might be doable but I cannot give you a timeframe...
What you could do in Krakatoa 1.5.0 would be to mark particles as part of PFlow 1 or PFlow 2 using some channel (for example the MXSInteger or any Mapping Channel). This could be done with a simple Script Operator or a simple Box #3 DataOp if you have Box #3.
Then in a KCM, you could use a Switch node to conditionally affect particles of only the one or the other while using a single PRT file sequence containing both. This approach has a drawback though - particles from the two Systems will have identical IDs, which is not a good idea if you intend to reload them back into PFlow using Krakatoa operators (read below).

About your second question - the new Krakatoa PRT Loader Birth and Update operators introduced in 1.5.0 let you display only a percentage of all particles - the Viewport % is now respected, as long as the particles contain a valid ID channel. Once again, it is a good idea to have particles from a single PFlow in one PRT file, otherwise you would get duplicated IDs and the loading would have troubles distinguishing between particles, thus failign to correctly birth and kill particles based on their IDs.

So right now the best approach is to disable the one system (or, if the other system depends on it, for example via a Script Operator or a Proxy in a Box #3 DataOp), set the Render Mode to "None" which causes the system to be updated but not saved/rendered. Partition your first PFlow, then switch the second system to Render Geometry and disable or switch to None the first one and repeat. Of course, if you are using Deadline, you can just submit two jobs to the farm and forget about it.

Hope this helps.
If something was unclear, please ask.

Als
09-08-2009, 07:52 PM
Sorry if I"m boring with this, but is there any update on maya export to krakatoa?

Thank you


Als

Bobo
09-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Sorry if I"m boring with this, but is there any update on maya export to krakatoa?

LOL, your profile image reflects perfectly your Krakatoa For Maya postings ;)
"Are we there yet?"
"No"
"Are we there yet?"
"No"

Thanks for your continued interest in Krakatoa For Maya!
We are not there yet.

JonathanFreisler
09-09-2009, 02:14 AM
:( Prime focus software site isnt working.

What ever happened to the elements comp? I havnet heard much about it since bobo posed it.

JohnnyRandom
09-09-2009, 02:20 AM
:( Prime focus software site isnt working.

Just got back and checking my e-mail and got an one in regards to a Build update, can't get to the forums either.

I think it was the GI Joe article that is hammering their bandwitdh :D


What ever happened to the elements comp? I havnet heard much about it since bobo posed it.

What did I miss? :)

Bobo
09-09-2009, 03:18 AM
Just got back and checking my e-mail and got an one in regards to a Build update, can't get to the forums either.


Both website and support forum are down. We had some more IT related problems today, I am pretty sure it is not related to traffic and bandwidth. Will be fixed tomorrow I hope.

Bobo
09-09-2009, 04:39 AM
:( Prime focus software site isnt working.

What ever happened to the elements comp? I havnet heard much about it since bobo posed it.

It took me an hour to figure out you use the word "comp" as a shorthand for "competition" and not for "compositing" or "composition" as everybody else in the VFX industry. "Elements Comp"? I could not figure out when we were talking about it, then it hit me :)

It is still going, the rules can be seen in this thread.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=6014491&postcount=693

th3ta
09-11-2009, 08:21 PM
So, I'm trying to use a texture map as the color channel in magmaflow, but it doesn't seem to be working. The texture map I'm trying to use is a photograph.

Could someone give a quick rundown of the workflow on the proper use of TextureMap input type? Thanks.

JohnnyRandom
09-11-2009, 09:01 PM
So, I'm trying to use a texture map as the color channel in magmaflow, but it doesn't seem to be working. The texture map I'm trying to use is a photograph.

Could someone give a quick rundown of the workflow on the proper use of TextureMap input type? Thanks.

Quick example:

Create a teapot

Create a PRT Volume and add the Teapot

Add a KCM (Krakatoa Channel Modifier) to the PRT Volume

Open Magma Flow


In the Defualt layout is the Input Color node and Output Color Channel
Switch the input color to TextureMap
Press Get Texture Map
Choose Bitmap and Select an image
Add a light or add the Texturemap to the emission channel

Render

Example: Max9

th3ta
09-11-2009, 09:08 PM
Ahh, got it now. Thanks. Trying to figure out how to project some stuff onto particles using this method :hmm:

Bobo
09-11-2009, 09:54 PM
Ahh, got it now. Thanks. Trying to figure out how to project some stuff onto particles using this method :hmm:

Per Pixel Camera Map is fully supported - even in the viewport!
Add your bitmap texture to the Camera Map Per Pixel map and you should see the colors in the viewport (works in a Standard Material's Diffuse slot, too!)

Bobo
09-15-2009, 06:15 AM
http://lotsofparticles.blogspot.com/

In case you find this kind of stuff interesting...

SoLiTuDe
09-15-2009, 07:11 AM
http://lotsofparticles.blogspot.com/

In case you find this kind of stuff interesting...

I would hope that if they're in this thread they'd be somewhat remotely kind of sort of mostly interested in lots of particles... :D

JohnnyRandom
09-15-2009, 04:51 PM
Life, the Universe, and Lot of Particles, with ketchup, of course :)

th3ta
09-15-2009, 08:04 PM
Per Pixel Camera Map is fully supported - even in the viewport!
Add your bitmap texture to the Camera Map Per Pixel map and you should see the colors in the viewport (works in a Standard Material's Diffuse slot, too!)

Got it working now, kind of. Just need to figure out how to make that mapped color stick.

JohnnyRandom
09-15-2009, 08:25 PM
Got it working now, kind of. Just need to figure out how to make that mapped color stick.

The slow way would be to apply them to Pflow particles, save out a single frame to PRT, bring them back into pflow with a PRT loader Birth op, add your motion to it, than save that whole sequence out to PRT.

So you are basically baking the first frame color to the Pflow Particles

galagast
09-17-2009, 08:08 PM
Hi Bobo, I have a few questions regarding the use of the Initial Depth Map Sequence feature in the 1.5 demo, but first I would like to ask if it's possible for you to post a quick step by step procedure on how to use it, that would be really helpful.

Here are the questions:
1. Why can't I use any other image file types aside from .EXR?
2. The old krakatoa had a button to enable using Depth Maps, why was it removed? (or was it placed somewhere else, I can't seem to find it ATM)
3. According to an old post in the thread regarding Depth Maps, I should render a z-depth pass (I usually render in .TGA) then use that in "Normalized Z-Depth" mode and set the near and far Zs same as the Z-Depth element settings. If this is correct, I will encounter question #1.
4. If I was to use EXR, is it enough to just render it out with only the Z-depth as the Extra Channel?
5. I wanted to test this because I 'm curious to compare what it would look like using Matte Objects vs. Depth Maps.

I have tested some of my questions above, but so far I can't seem to get decent results.

Thanks for any help,
Jeff

Bobo
09-17-2009, 09:49 PM
Hi!

0. Version 1.5.0 had an issue with Depth Maps in Voxel Mode (it was not implemented ;)). 1.5.1 will fix the problem, expected to be released to public any time soon.

1. Krakatoa supports natively only EXRs. When you render, we pass the image to Max to save into any format, but since
a) Krakatoa started as a stand-alone renderer,
b) is on its way to go back to being stand-alone,
c) EXR is the only reasonable open file format in existence (ILM wrote it, nuff said)
d) our company does not use anything else anyway aside from DPX plates,
we did not want to entangle it too much into the sucky Max bitmap subsystems.
You will also find out that if you are saving a Background pass with Matte Objects, the Foreground image will be written out by Max in the specified format, but the background will be an EXR no matter what. Let's call it a "known limitation".

2. That is unrelated. The Depth Maps button in the old Krakatoa was a special mode to speed up matte objects processing. When it was on, a ray was shot through every pixel of the final output image and the depth value at the hit point with matte geometry was saved in the map. Then the particle's depth was compared to that map. When the option was off, each particle caused a ray to be shot into the kd-tree to find out whether to occlude or not. BOTH these methods required raytracing and were slow. So slow it was the slowest feature of v1.1.x hands down.
In 1.5.x, we replaced the raytracing engine with a scanline renderer (mental images would have called it a "fast rasterizer" ;)). Instead of shooting rays into the scene, we just rasterize the polygons of all matte geometry objects into an internal depth map, then go on as before. As result, we get thousands of times faster performance with the same result. In fact, in Beta builds we could even save the output as an EXR for loading as Initial Depth Map (but we have removed that option for now, hope it will reappear in the future).

3. How you render your depth maps is up to you - Krakatoa supports the Max style depth maps, both kinds of VRay depth maps and the Gelato-style "distance value as floating point per pixel" depth maps (the original implementation, we added the others for the regular Max users because we were the only users of Gelato ;)) You should match the settings of your Z-Depth render element in Krakatoa and render to EXR instead of TGA.

4. Do NOT save in a Z-Depth channel inside the EXR, save the Z-Depth as RGB to a separate sequence using a Z-Depth Render Element like you would do with a TGA. Really, all you have to change is the output file extension in the Render Element.

5. The main reason to use Initial Depth Maps is to get render-time displaced geometry you could not produce outside of your other renderer. For example we used it for displaced water from Gelato on "Journey To The Center Of The Earth 3D", but you could use it with mental ray or V-Ray render-time displacement or other render-time-only geometry. It is a PITA to manage - if Krakatoa can use geometry from the scene (the new version can handle many millions of polygons in no time), it is the better approach. Also, the Matte Objects now allow Super-Sampling (in 1.5.0 it is called Sub-Divisions, but the name will change soon) to improve anti-aliasing, and supports semi-transparent and opacity-mapped objects correctly.
I would not use Initial Depth Maps unless there is no way to get the geometry in front of the Krakatoa camera.


Hi Bobo, I have a few questions regarding the use of the Initial Depth Map Sequence feature in the 1.5 demo, but first I would like to ask if it's possible for you to post a quick step by step procedure on how to use it, that would be really helpful.

Here are the questions:
1. Why can't I use any other image file types aside from .EXR?
2. The old krakatoa had a button to enable using Depth Maps, why was it removed? (or was it placed somewhere else, I can't seem to find it ATM)
3. According to an old post in the thread regarding Depth Maps, I should render a z-depth pass (I usually render in .TGA) then use that in "Normalized Z-Depth" mode and set the near and far Zs same as the Z-Depth element settings. If this is correct, I will encounter question #1.
4. If I was to use EXR, is it enough to just render it out with only the Z-depth as the Extra Channel?
5. I wanted to test this because I 'm curious to compare what it would look like using Matte Objects vs. Depth Maps.

I have tested some of my questions above, but so far I can't seem to get decent results.

Thanks for any help,
Jeff

seb-desmet
09-18-2009, 10:15 AM
hi I'm using version 1.1.3 and I'd like to enable deformation motion blur
how I can do that ??
the button is not active and I can't use it
do I have to enable something to be able to use this option ?

I have issue with matte object and motion blur

my particles are glue on a animated vertex polygon and I use the object as a matte
but there is no motion blur on the object

if deformation motion blur doesn't work is it an other way to do it

thx

Bobo
09-18-2009, 03:53 PM
hi I'm using version 1.1.3 and I'd like to enable deformation motion blur
how I can do that ??
the button is not active and I can't use it
do I have to enable something to be able to use this option ?

I have issue with matte object and motion blur

my particles are glue on a animated vertex polygon and I use the object as a matte
but there is no motion blur on the object

if deformation motion blur doesn't work is it an other way to do it

thx

Deformation Motion Blur is not implemented in 1.1.3. The button was a place holder and was also a way to remind the feature developer to do the job for 1.5.0 ;)
If we would have implemented the deformation motion blur in 1.1.3, it would have been very expensive since the kd-tree would require a rebuilding on each sample. In 1.5.0, the feature is enabled, and since Matte Objects processing is orders of magnitude faster there, it does not affect performance much.

A quick benchmark:
*10M particles lit by an Omni light render in 22.078 seconds on my machine.
*Same 10M particles occluded by 20 Geospheres with 200 segments / 800K faces each, or 16M faces total, rendered in 28.11 seconds.
*This means that Krakatoa 1.5.0 processed 16M matte faces in 6 seconds.
*In 1.1.3, the same scene rendered in about the same time without matte objects, but when I enabled them, it needed 406.703 seconds...

A workaround in 1.1.3 (as explained in the documentation) is to use the 3ds Max Multipass Motion Blur. It will be even slower because all particles will have to be reloaded and relit for each pass, but it will respect deformations of matte objects.

The real solution is switching to 1.5.0, but I can understand if that is not an option.

Bobo
09-19-2009, 04:19 AM
Autodesk has published the Prime Focus demos from Siggraph (Paramount did not allow the live broadcasting of the whole presentation because the movie was still not out at that time). This is the presentation from Day 2:

http://area.autodesk.com/player/loader.swf?p=/player/main.swf&f=http://areadownloads.autodesk.com/oc/ibc09/sig09_d2_frantic01.flv

friedpixels
09-19-2009, 05:44 AM
Autodesk has published the Prime Focus demos from Siggraph (Paramount did not allow the live broadcasting of the whole presentation because the movie was still not out at that time). This is the presentation from Day 2:

http://area.autodesk.com/player/loader.swf?p=/player/main.swf&f=http://areadownloads.autodesk.com/oc/ibc09/sig09_d2_frantic01.flv

really amazing to see the initial test you guys and how you push around your software! amazing work --

galagast
09-19-2009, 08:17 AM
absolutely jawdropping bobo! I love the varied particle tests that you guys did! totally amazing. :buttrock:

As always, thanks for the very detailed reply regarding the Depth Maps! Got it working like a charm. (and as you've pointed out, all I needed to do was render the element and save it as an EXR!)

I only have a few suggestions regarding that:

Can there be an automatic way to resize+filter the zdepth exr image to fit a final render size?
- The idea is to maybe render a half size zdepth exr pass and use that for the depth map sequence. The reason for the suggestion is that I just jumped in to an almost finished project, and the plates that I got doesn't have zdepth passes because thier output is NPR. It would just save me some time to be able to render the zdepth passes half the original movie size.
Use a single exr image as a depth map.
- Right now it gives me a "Matte depth map does not exist:" error.
- Probably useful for static camera scenes, where we won't have to render a few hundred frames of the same image.
Regarding 1.5.1 - I'll try and ask the company if they bought the Support and Upgrade... if so, it possible to get a version with the working depth maps for voxel rendering?

Glacierise
09-19-2009, 10:40 AM
Totally great demo! The eating effects were marvelous! I have two questions:
1) In the collapsible hood shot, how did you do the metal collapsing? Was it cloth and Krakatoa skin wrap? If yes, How did you drive the cloth?
2) These cool intelligent particle motions, can you elaborate on how did you drive these? That would be cool :)

Thanks!

seb-desmet
09-19-2009, 12:48 PM
I have a problem when rendering a cache with krakatoa 1.1.3
I have this message each frame during the rendering

-- unknow property: "refresh_GUI" in undefined

does anybody know why ??

Bobo
09-19-2009, 04:44 PM
I have a problem when rendering a cache with krakatoa 1.1.3
I have this message each frame during the rendering

-- unknow property: "refresh_GUI" in undefined

does anybody know why ??

That could be a bug :)
Can you provide more info like Max version (8,9,2008,2009,2010), 32/64 bit?
If 2009 or 2010, do you have VFB Extensions turned on?

Also, please provide a step by step description of what you are doing - "Rendering a cache" cam mean many things. Are you rendering a PRT Loader with particles cached to disk? Or rendering with the PCache enabled? Or rendering with a PFlow Cache? Or with the Box#1 Disk Cache? Please be as specific as possible.

Finally, do you have the Krakatoa GUI open when rendering, or are you just hitting the Render button in the Max UI without opening the Krakatoa floater?

Bobo
09-19-2009, 04:48 PM
absolutely jawdropping bobo! I love the varied particle tests that you guys did! totally amazing. :buttrock:

As always, thanks for the very detailed reply regarding the Depth Maps! Got it working like a charm. (and as you've pointed out, all I needed to do was render the element and save it as an EXR!)

I only have a few suggestions regarding that:


Can there be an automatic way to resize+filter the zdepth exr image to fit a final render size?

- The idea is to maybe render a half size zdepth exr pass and use that for the depth map sequence. The reason for the suggestion is that I just jumped in to an almost finished project, and the plates that I got doesn't have zdepth passes because thier output is NPR. It would just save me some time to be able to render the zdepth passes half the original movie size.
Use a single exr image as a depth map.

- Right now it gives me a "Matte depth map does not exist:" error.

- Probably useful for static camera scenes, where we won't have to render a few hundred frames of the same image.
Regarding 1.5.1 - I'll try and ask the company if they bought the Support and Upgrade... if so, it possible to get a version with the working depth maps for voxel rendering?


You are right, the Depth Maps handling is a bit underdeveloped, it has not changed since before I started working on Krakatoa... We will look into supporting a single frame and will talk to the developer about the possibility to resize the image (we do this with the Sub-Division spinner in 1.5.0 but the other way round - we render a larger image for antialiasing)


The 1.5.1 version should be out really soon anyway, but yes, anyone with Beta access can download it.

Bobo
09-19-2009, 05:58 PM
Totally great demo! The eating effects were marvelous! I have two questions:
1) In the collapsible hood shot, how did you do the metal collapsing? Was it cloth and Krakatoa skin wrap? If yes, How did you drive the cloth?
2) These cool intelligent particle motions, can you elaborate on how did you drive these? That would be cool :)

Thanks!

Please remember that this was a team effort. A lot of these tests were done by other people, esp. Laszlo, so credit where credit is due. Also, as mentioned in the presentation, some of the effects were simulated using Level Set tools (which are based on Flood technology and we developed further during the Dragonball production). Of course, Krakatoa 1.5 now uses the same Level Set technology to fill volumes with particles, but when you look at some of the volumetric tests like the cannon or the hood, they are a mesh representation of a level set of the original mesh, eaten away by a procedural map (Laszlo wrote a procedural map that could be controlled precisely to grow where desired). If you have seen Dieter Morgenroth's (DiMo) level set tests in VRay, this is a similar approach, but is not just render-time geometry. Thus, it can be driven by other systems.

In fact, RnD for the Dragonball and G.I.Joe projects started the same week of 2008, and we discovered that they called for similar technological approaches, just in opposite temporal directions - in DB:E we had to grow stuff, in G.I.Joe we had to destroy it. If you would play the one backwards, you would get the other effect. Of course, in the end they turned out very different, but the initial research was shared and some tools ended up being used for both at one stage or another.

Laszlo used Box #3 for the intelligent motion of particles. I will see if he would like to comment on that.

Glacierise
09-20-2009, 04:35 PM
Thanks! I got the basic idea about the levelsets and the procedural map. And yeah it would be cool if Laszlo comments on his box3 magic :)

StevieMac
09-20-2009, 06:46 PM
Autodesk has published the Prime Focus demos from Siggraph (Paramount did not allow the live broadcasting of the whole presentation because the movie was still not out at that time). This is the presentation from Day 2:

http://area.autodesk.com/player/loader.swf?p=/player/main.swf&f=http://areadownloads.autodesk.com/oc/ibc09/sig09_d2_frantic01.flv

Bobo will they be putting up the 1st day of the presentation too?
Great stuff its a shame you don't get this kind of info in the 'making of' when any Blue Ray film is purchased! images/icons/icon10.gif

kees
09-20-2009, 09:11 PM
First part is already up:

http://area.autodesk.com/player/loader.swf?p=/player/main.swf&f=http://areadownloads.autodesk.com/oc/ibc09/sig09_d1_frantic01.flv

Take care,

StevieMac
09-20-2009, 11:01 PM
Thanks Kees.

PexElroy
09-21-2009, 04:03 AM
Awesome - thanks for posting kees :thumbsup:

JohnnyRandom
09-26-2009, 10:50 PM
Also nice 20+ page spread in Cinefex 119 about the making of GI Joe, insights from all the fx houses, pretty good read :)

Bobo
09-28-2009, 11:36 PM
Hey Krakatoa Maniacs!

This is a quick reminder that the deadline of the Krakatoa Contest is near - Thursday October 1, 2009!
Please consider submitting your work in the next two days!

Good luck!

galagast
09-29-2009, 05:50 AM
omg, I could have sworn I've read somewhere that the contest ended a few weeks ago. :argh:Thanks for the heads up bobo. :)

friedpixels
09-29-2009, 07:10 AM
Nice ink piece for CCTV by weareflink -- they use fumeFX and krakatoa to make some beautiful animations!

http://www.weareflink.com/index_ct.html

via
motionographer (http://forums.cgsociety.org/www.motionographer.com)

noouch
09-29-2009, 11:13 AM
Nice ink piece for CCTV by weareflink -- they use fumeFX and krakatoa to make some beautiful animations!

http://www.weareflink.com/index_ct.html

via
motionographer (http://forums.cgsociety.org/www.motionographer.com)
Wow that's really nice. Kudos to the artists :)

JohnnyRandom
09-29-2009, 05:48 PM
That's a great spot, interesting making of too. Thanks for posting :)

MatthiasM
09-30-2009, 05:16 PM
yeah thats realy ealy great, exactly the type of animation i love :thumbsup:

Bobo
09-30-2009, 08:08 PM
Hey everyone,

Just wanted to let you know Krakatoa v1.5.1.38002 was released for public download today. It uses the same license as 1.5.0, and of course works in Evaluation mode without a license, except for a watermark at resolutions above 480x360, disabled network rendering and disabled bonus PFlow modifiers (Geometry Test, Lookup and Collision).

For a list of bug fixes and new features, please check out the Release Notes (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/1.5.1_release_notes.php).

For a write up on the major changes, please read here (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/what%27s_new_in_krakatoa_v1.5.1.php).

Here is a short list of the new features:
*Grid and Random particle distribution (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/prt_volume_grid_and_random_particle_generation.php) per voxel in PRT Volume.
*Support for Selection Channel (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/selection_channel_support.php) in MagmaFlow.
*Support for procedural particle culling (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/culling_particles_using_selection_channel.php) using the Selection Channel.
*New Curve node in MagmaFlow for mapping input values between 0 and 1 to custom values.
*New Schematic Flow (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/schematic_flow.php) tool to control and debug your Krakatoa rendering setup.
*Much faster value History access and new color value history in Global Render Values (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/global_render_values.php).
*New Select Partitions To Load dialog (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/prt_loader_select_partitions_dialog.php) when loading sequences into PRT Loader.
*Copy and Paste of sequence names between PRT Loaders.
*Rewritten local and network Partitioning that works well with Thinking Particles
*A lot of smaller improvements, icons etc. plus all the bug fixes that make it a lot more stable and usable.

friedpixels
10-01-2009, 12:19 AM
"*Grid and Random particle distribution (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/prt_volume_grid_and_random_particle_generation.php) per voxel in PRT Volume."

Fantastic! Looks like a healthy batch of fixes and updates! Always welcome and thankful for such a hard working team over there! :)

Mauritius
10-02-2009, 05:25 PM
Interestingly, before starting our own point renderer, we tried to use Entropy (which was more or less a Renderman-clone) to draw Doc's Spores and while it worked for testing purposes, it was much slower and a lot more unreliable.
You should have tried Pixie (www.renderpixie.com) instead. It kicked Entropy's ass for point rendering at the time (speed and memory-wise) -- mainly because of this project (http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/b-cam/Papers/Feldman-2003-ASP/index.html) on which its author used it.
And it is open source and comes with RenderMan shading language support. ;)

.mm

Bobo
10-02-2009, 05:48 PM
You should have tried Pixie (http://www.renderpixie.com) instead. It kicked Entropy's ass for point rendering at the time (speed and memory-wise) -- mainly because of this project (http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/b-cam/Papers/Feldman-2003-ASP/index.html) on which its author used it.
And it is open source and comes with RenderMan shading language support. ;)

.mm

Strangely enough, we had Pixie around that time (for Flood render tests), not sure why we did not try it out. I am glad we decided to do our own thing though. We cannot promise Renderman SL, but we are working on improving Krakatoa's shading capabilities :)

Mauritius
10-02-2009, 06:51 PM
We cannot promise Renderman SL, but we are working on improving Krakatoa's shading capabilities :)
3Delight exposed their shader VM through an API. As a coder I'd say it shouldn't take more than half an hour to integrate that with a particle renderer.

For open programmable shading, keep an eye on SPI's (http://opensource.imageworks.com/) OSL (http://code.google.com/p/openshadinglanguage/).

.mm

Bobo
10-02-2009, 06:59 PM
keep an eye on SPI's (http://opensource.imageworks.com/) OSL (http://code.google.com/p/openshadinglanguage/).

Oh, we do. :)
Having worked with Gelato on the only feature film it was ever used in, we cannot wait to get our hands on whatever Larry releases.

Mauritius
10-02-2009, 07:23 PM
Oh, we do. :)
Having worked with Gelato on the only feature film it was ever used in, we cannot wait to get our hands on whatever Larry releases.
Really? I honesty can't understand that. :)
Gelato was a complete failure, not only as a product but also as a piece of software. I tested it when working at RSP in 2005 and honestly, 3Delight kicked its ass. Speed wise, quality wise, features wise. Price wise. Not even considering the costs of the required hardware.

A big place in London once got a couple dozen boxes with nVidia GPUs to test it at the time. They had to shut them down because their normal farms super expensive AC still couldn't keep up with the heat they generated because of the GPUs (ignoring the power consumption, which would mean an issue too, in Soho, once your farm reaches a certain size). And just as with 3Delight, Gelato was reportedly slower than PRMan at the time -- which, too, doesn't use any GPU.

Lastly, Gelato had some of the same issues as had BMRT & Entropy. Very suprising for a renderer that supposedly was a complete rewrite ... ;)

I have high hopes for OSL though -- as long as it is implementation agnostic. Aka: I hope it is not a ray-tracing centric shading language. :)

.mm

Bobo
10-02-2009, 07:44 PM
Really? I honesty can't understand that. :)
Gelato was a complete failure, not only as a product but also as a piece of software. I tested it when working at RSP in 2005 and honestly, 3Delight kicked its ass. Speed wise, quality wise, features wise. Price wise. Not even considering the costs of the required hardware.


Keep in mind we did not have to pay for it or even for the cards, so some of your points did not apply to us. :)
I hear from people here who have experience with both 3Delight and Gelato that they prefer the Gelato shading language for various reasons. Since I am not an LnR guy (I merely sit next to one), and I am not even a programmer, I am not going to argue how good it was since it obviously had its problems. But it worked for us.

Thanks for the insight!

Mauritius
10-02-2009, 08:46 PM
Keep in mind we did not have to pay for it or even for the cards, so some of your points did not apply to us. :)
"Some" as in "one": price. The same was true for the company in London. But it doesn't help if you get 100 blades + renderer licenses for free if using them to do actual work means that your building goes up in flames. ;)
[quote]I hear from people here who have experience with both 3Delight and Gelato that they prefer the Gelato shading language for various reasons.
The only difference were that function signatures used commata instead of semicoli for parameter separation. Aka:
void foo( float bar; color baz ) { // RMan SL
...
}

void foo( float bar, color baz ) { // Gelato SL
...
}
I'd rather not say what one could feel inclined to conclude about a shader saying their preference for a certain language depended on that. ;)

Since I am not an LnR guy (I merely sit next to one)
I'd love to have a beer with these people that you speak of once and hear what the other of the 'various reasons' are/were (if you do indeed count using ',' over ';' as one). Since that was the only 'difference' between GSL and RSL. :P

.mm


P.S.: sorry for diverting from this thread's topic, but this couldn't be left uncommented.

Bobo
10-02-2009, 08:53 PM
[QUOTE=Bobo]

I'd love to have a beer with these people that you speak of once and hear what the other of the 'various reasons' are/were (if you do indeed count using ',' over ';' as one). Since that was the only 'difference' between GSL and RSL. :P


Well, IIRC the main reason was the metadata support in the shader definition which was added around version 2. Of course, I could be wrong and RSL could be supporting the same feature, but I was told it did not.
It helped tremendously exposing the shaders to our host application the way we wanted them which in turn made the life of simple artists with zero GSL knowledge significantly easier. This is of course not a feature of the language per se, but it made a huge usability difference.
This is really OT and I am out of here, too.

Mauritius
10-02-2009, 09:16 PM
[QUOTE=Mauritius] Well, IIRC the main reason was the metadata support in the shader definition which was added around version 2. Of course, I could be wrong and RSL could be supporting the same feature, but I was told it did not.

It does in 3Delight; since 2004 at least (that's when I used it first).
This is btw. not a language feature but one of the compiler.

.mm

Bobo
10-02-2009, 09:32 PM
[QUOTE=Bobo]
It does in 3Delight; since 2004 at least (that's when I used it first).


Good to know! It must be hidden pretty well or called something else, because I could not find any mentioning of the word "metadata" in the 3Delight documentation.


This is btw. not a language feature but one of the compiler.


I know, otherwise I wouldn't have written "This is of course not a feature of the language per se" in my previous post ;)

Mauritius
10-02-2009, 11:35 PM
[QUOTE=Mauritius] Good to know! It must be hidden pretty well or called something else, because I could not find any mentioning of the word "metadata" in the 3Delight documentation.
That's because the term 'metadata' is a relatively recent buzzword (i general, but particularly as its use in VFX goes). Even before computers existed, there was "data about data". :)

Search for 'annotations' or look here (http://www.3delight.com/en/uploads/docs/3delight/3delight_78.html#SEC249).

.mm

Bobo
10-03-2009, 12:05 AM
[QUOTE=Bobo]
That's because the term 'metadata' is a relatively recent buzzword (i general, but particularly as its use in VFX goes). Even before computers existed, there was "data about data". :)

Search for 'annotations' or look here (http://www.3delight.com/en/uploads/docs/3delight/3delight_78.html#SEC249).

.mm

Great, that's what I failed to find. I should have searched with with a space, "meta data" :)
Thanks a bunch!

JohnnyRandom
10-17-2009, 07:22 AM
All particles a just a couple million. mostly about flame structure and scale study but thought id post it.

Some post work to combine the pass and soften the fire particles.

BurnPaperBurn QT 5mb (http://4rand.com/TEST/Krakatoa/PflowFume/PaperBurn/BurnPaperBurn.mov)

http://4rand.com/TEST/Krakatoa/PflowFume/PaperBurn/BurnPaperBurn.png

iceman32
10-18-2009, 03:10 PM
Hi all

I wonder how much memory needed for Krakatoa?
Everytime I try to save out my fumefx files to disc within krakatoa it gives me an memory error.

I have a rather simple setup with a pflow operator that generates 200000 particles, a fumefx grid with only smoke. All I want to do is to save out a prt file from krakatoa, and it gives me some memory error when he try to load in my fumefx files that I saved to disc first.

I run WinXP pro with SP3 and have 4gb RAM

Anyone?

Bobo
10-18-2009, 03:55 PM
Hi all

I wonder how much memory needed for Krakatoa?
Everytime I try to save out my fumefx files to disc within krakatoa it gives me an memory error.

I have a rather simple setup with a pflow operator that generates 200000 particles, a fumefx grid with only smoke. All I want to do is to save out a prt file from krakatoa, and it gives me some memory error when he try to load in my fumefx files that I saved to disc first.

I run WinXP pro with SP3 and have 4gb RAM

Anyone?

While having a lot of memory when using Krakatoa is a must, saving particles from Krakatoa does not use ANY memory above what Max/PFlow/FumeFX already use. Saving just gets particles from the source and dumps them to disk without loading the data into Krakatoa-managed memory.

From your post, it appears that the problem is when you are loading the already saved particles for rendering via a PRT Loader? In that is the case, the 200K particles should not use too much memory on a 4GB system, but if you are running 32 bit OS/Max/Krakatoa and resources are already used by Max and plugins AND the memory is highly fragmented, memory errors can occur. This is why we recommend using 64 bit OS/Max/Krakatoa to be able to use all memory without being affected by fragmentation. Plus it is twice as fast.

If the problem happens when saving, it would be a mystery for me because Krakatoa does not use memory when saving particles, only FumeFX/PFlow would.

Can you provide a screenshot of the error message you are getting? Also, please specify the version of Max and Krakatoa you are running, including 32/64 bitness.

You could also keep an eye on the Task Manager to see how much memory is used before and during Krakatoa rendering/saving. Try rebooting the machine and launching a fresh Max session, then rendering the same scene immediately - does that change anything? (memory fragmentation would be low in this case).

As with all bug reports, it is highly recommended to provide clear step-by-step description of the problem so we don't have to read "between the lines".
For example

*I saved 200K particles from PFlow driven by FumeFX to a PRT sequence with these channels:...
*I created a PRT Loader and selected the saved PRT sequence.
*I pressed the Render button in the Krakatoa GUI (a list of enabled features might be useful)
*RESULT: "Out Of Memory" dialog box with OK button.

or

*I created 200K particles in Pflow driven by FumeFX.
*I set up Krakatoa to save the following channels to PRT sequence:...
*I pressed the "SAVE PARTICLES" button
*RESULT: "Out Of Memory: dialog box with OK button.

gaialau
10-21-2009, 04:17 PM
Can someone point me some tips on how to color particles based on particle age with krakatoa ? Basically i hv a scene comet like ,with color mapping based on particle age ,as the particles get older they go trough a gradient ramp map.
In adv. Thanks for your time .

JohnnyRandom
10-21-2009, 06:19 PM
Something like this:

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php#Color_Gradient_By_Age

michael juice
10-22-2009, 03:04 PM
hey all

I think this is a simple one...

How do I set Krakatoa to render only specific events? e.g. only the particles generated after a collision test.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

gaialau
10-22-2009, 04:16 PM
Fisrt thanks alot for the link johnny ,i tried to fallow the tutorial ,but unfortunatelly i was not able to get it to work . For some reason after adding the second KCM to the PRT Loader ,nothing showed up on the render anymore .
Anyone has a simple setup willing to share on gradient setup on magmaflow ?
Thanks Once again .



Something like this:

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php#Color_Gradient_By_Age

Bobo
10-22-2009, 04:16 PM
hey all

I think this is a simple one...

How do I set Krakatoa to render only specific events? e.g. only the particles generated after a collision test.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

Not only simple, it is Frequently Asked :)

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/frequently_asked_questions.php#Rendering_Specific_Particle_Flow_Events

michael juice
10-22-2009, 04:32 PM
:blush:

i spent more time looking in the forums and Primefocus tutorials...

Another lesson learnt.

some good news though. The shot is realy coming together and in terms of work flow I'm much happier. I'm sending all the previz and tests to the Director today.

As soon as I can show it on here with breakdowns I will.

Thanks again!

Mike

JohnnyRandom
10-22-2009, 05:50 PM
Fisrt thanks alot for the link johnny ,i tried to fallow the tutorial ,but unfortunatelly i was not able to get it to work . For some reason after adding the second KCM to the PRT Loader ,nothing showed up on the render anymore .
Anyone has a simple setup willing to share on gradient setup on magmaflow ?
Thanks Once again .

Either turn on Force Additive Mode or assign a Krakatoa Material to the PRT Loader and add the Gradient Ramp to the Emission Channel of the material and turn on Use Emission. :) If you want the Emission effect brighter turn up the Density Scale value in the KRK material.

tryhard
10-23-2009, 08:45 AM
... does Krakatoa work with 3DS Max 2010 Design 64 BIT

OK it does !

Bobo
10-23-2009, 02:11 PM
... does Krakatoa work with 3DS Max 2010 Design 64 BIT

OK it does !

Of course it does, and 64 bit is the recommended version to use :)

michael juice
10-23-2009, 04:24 PM
Hi Bobo....I'm back!

OK so am getting almost everything I want from Krakatoa now. Although I think I have found an issue.

After reading the FAQ and taking all of your advice. I can render per PFflow events using the Phantom render options for standard workflow, no problem.

Although this doesnt work when you have a fumeFX follow in the event.

See video for visual.

[/url][url]http://vimeo.com/7220958 (http://vimeo.com/7220958/settings)


basically I have a fumeFX object source Sphere that drops through the floor. and I want to render in Krakatoa only the resulting impact using the FumeFX sim for the great fluid movement.

to do this I have a Fumefx follow in the first event
then a collision test with the ground
then a fumefx follow in the second event
in the second event I have the Phantom renderer
in the Krakatoa render options PFlow Geometry is turned off.

oddly when you render that you get nothing. Not even the watermark when rendering larger images.

Almost there

Thanks...again!

Bobo
10-23-2009, 04:54 PM
Hi Bobo....I'm back!

OK so am getting almost everything I want from Krakatoa now. Although I think I have found an issue.

After reading the FAQ and taking all of your advice. I can render per PFflow events using the Phantom render options for standard workflow, no problem.

Although this doesnt work when you have a fumeFX follow in the event.


I watched the video and could not find anything wrong with your setup.
So I opened a scene that had FumeFX sim in it, create a PFlow that looks exactly like yours, drove the particles with FumeFX Follow in both events and sent them out to the second event via Collision test. Set the second event to Phantom, left the global to Geometry and it rendered just like I would expect it - I could check PFlow Geometry and the first event would render, I could check PFlow Phantom and the second event would render, I could check both and the whole system would render.

At this point, I have NO idea why your system would not render, but one possible issue could be layer mismatch in the PFlow itself. If you have Box #1 or the PFlow extension to Max 2009 or Max 2010, you could use the PFlow Utility to sync the PFlow to a single layer. (If you don't have layers in your scene, then ignore me). Sometimes it can happen that you created the PFlow on one layer, then did something else in the scene and the active layer changed to one that is either hidden or disabled for rendering, then you added the second Event to PFlow and it ended up on the wrong layer. The only way to fix this is to use the Synchronize Layers utility mentioned above, or recreate the second event while on the correct active layer.

This is just a shot in the dark based on my experience with PFlow. I don't see anything else wrong in the video you posted, but I could be just overlooking something...

michael juice
10-23-2009, 05:18 PM
thanks for looking.

Im not using any layers. I will have to keep trying.

I just had a look on my Autodesk subscription page and didnt see any PFlow extension.

My Max install is pretty Vanilla.

If i get it sorted I will post how i sorted it. If not I will upload a scene.

Mike

Bobo
10-23-2009, 05:21 PM
thanks for looking.

Im not using any layers. I will have to keep trying.

I just had a look on my Autodesk subscription page and didnt see any PFlow extension.

My Max install is pretty Vanilla.

If i get it sorted I will post how i sorted it. If not I will upload a scene.

Mike

Let's try some more debugging:

*What happens if you disable the FumeFX Follow in the second event? Does it start rendering stuff?
*If you would delete the whole PFlow and recreate it from scratch, does it still end up not rendering?

The PFlow Utility is part of Max 2010, so all you have to do is go to the Particle View's "Tools" menu and call the "Synchronize Layers" and "Repair Cache System" options.

Another thing to look at - first of all, create a Krakatoa Toolbar as instructed in the documentation and drag all icons from the Krakatoa category onto it. It hurts me watching people going to the Render dialog's Renderer Tab to open Krakatoa. Seriously, never use that.

One of the icons (also exposed in the Preferences rollout) lets you open the Krakatoa Log window. Switch it to Debug mode and look at the output when rendering. I expect it to report that "0 particles" we loaded. If you want, select the relevant lines, copy and paste them into a post or send us an email to the krakatoa support address with the content so we can see if there is anything strange there...

michael juice
10-23-2009, 07:20 PM
ok. just had a long commute home. But I will follow up with the debug and toolbar install.
Might take a day though,

michael juice
10-28-2009, 12:14 PM
Hi Bobo,

I dont know how or why but it works now.

Thanks,
Mike

Bobo
10-28-2009, 09:20 PM
Just a heads up that we have posted an short tutorial dedicated to mixing of Additive and Volumetric rendering within the same particle system using Krakatoa v1.5.0 and higher:

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/mixing_additive_and_volumetric_shading.php


On a related note, the online documentation is now also available as an offline CHM help file which can be downloaded from
http://software.primefocusworld.com/downloads/Krakatoa_1_5_1_38002_CHM.zip

Share And Enjoy!

Siahpoosh
10-29-2009, 11:44 PM
hi bobo
i created a paritcle simulation in realflow , then i import that with PRT loader .
i want to render that with voxel shader , but when i render that i see this :

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1663/problemw.jpg (http://www.freecodesource.com/image-hosting/view/img88/1663/problemw.jpg/)

i think voxel geometry is inverted .
whats the problem ? how can i solve that ?

thanx a lot

Bobo
10-30-2009, 12:11 AM
hi bobo
i created a paritcle simulation in realflow , then i import that with PRT loader .
i want to render that with voxel shader , but when i render that i see this :

i think voxel geometry is inverted .
whats the problem ? how can i solve that ?

thanx a lot

There is not such thing as voxel geometry, but the Density is obviously very high, producing severe self-shadowing.
First thing to try is reducing the Final Pass Density - it is by default set to 5.0/-1.
Documentation of the controls and how to use them is here:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/main_controls.php

Now keep in mind that if you are loading a BIN file, it might contain a channel called "Density" with values that have nothing to do with Krakatoa's concept of density. If you cannot get a better look by setting the global Final Pass Density to something like 1.0/-3 or 1.0/-4, then you might have to override the Density value using MagmaFlow. Try to reduce the density and if it does not help, please let me know and I will explain how to reset the incoming Density.

For particle rendering, we have a chapter in the help which explains how things can go wrong when density is too high.
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/particle_density.php
For voxel rendering, the principles are similar, it just looks uglier when it is wrong ;)

Siahpoosh
10-30-2009, 09:16 AM
hi bobo
thanx a lot for ur help , problem is solved now with:
fp density 1.0 and density exponent -5

i have another question (sorry i`m basic in krakatoa) :

can i increase quality for voxel ?

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2888/85018131.jpg (http://www.freecodesource.com/image-hosting/view/img217/2888/85018131.jpg/)

thanx again

Bobo
10-30-2009, 02:26 PM
hi bobo
thanx a lot for ur help , problem is solved now with:
fp density 1.0 and density exponent -5

i have another question (sorry i`m basic in krakatoa) :

can i increase quality for voxel ?

thanx again

By default, the Voxel Filter Radius value is 1 which means "no filtering" but is the fastest setting. Increasing the Filter Radius to 2 will smooth out the rendering at the cost of performance. At the same time, since increasing Filtering also increases the apparent size of a particle in a voxel, you can balance the look by reducing the Voxel Size. For example, if Voxel Size is 1.0 and Filter Radius is 1, you can go to Voxel Size 0.5 and Filter Radius of 2 to get a similar look but with smoother voxels.

I highly suggest reading the documentation which has a large amount of example images, like this page:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/voxel_rendering_mode.php

Another thing you can do is play with the balance of the Lighting Pass Density vs. Shadow Pass Density to tweak the look of the cloud seen by the camera vs. the cloud as seen by the lights. Some shading artifacts can be fixed that way, too.

Also, if you are using a commercial copy of Krakatoa, you should be posting to our support forum instead.

thomaskc
10-31-2009, 04:15 PM
Hi everyone, first of im not really sure if im posting in the right place, but hope its okay.

@Bobo
I believe you made this tuturial at some point?
http://www.studiodaily.com/main/training/Disintegrate-Geometry-Objects-using-Frantic-Films-Krakatoa-and-Autodesk-3ds-Max_10691.html

If its alright I have a few questions to it, because I get stuck in some loose ends here and there.

step 5-6-7 about creating the 2nd Pflow and turning off the 1st one makes no sense to me because if I do turn off the first one, then I wont have any particles to bake, since that where the disintegrate effect is made..?

Uhm I have got it to work I think, I have made the particles, baked them and can sort of render them, but I have to create a new light setup for them since using Vray lights apparently everything blows up in bright white. However I kind of got the idea that light would not be need after everything is baked, shading, particles and so on? or am I wrong?

Thanks in advance, I will give more clear examples if none of what im saying makes any sense :)

- Thomas

thomaskc
10-31-2009, 07:20 PM
Another problem is I can't seem to get the baking of the colour and ID's correct following your guide :(

http://thomaskc.dk/wip/krakatoa/butwhy.mov

( I know the effect itself is very bad and screwed but my problem is once the 2nd stage of the particles are activated they become white/black and do not keep their colour. )

thanks in advance.

- THomas

Siahpoosh
10-31-2009, 07:29 PM
hi bobo
thanx a lot for helps
okay i post my other questions in the krakatoa forum

Bobo
10-31-2009, 07:33 PM
Another problem is I can't seem to get the baking of the colour and ID's correct following your guide :(

http://thomaskc.dk/wip/krakatoa/butwhy.mov

( I know the effect itself is very bad and screwed but my problem is once the 2nd stage of the particles are activated they become white/black and do not keep their colour. )

thanks in advance.

- THomas

Let's start with the obvious questions: What version of Krakatoa, what version of Max?
The tutorial was written for 1.1.2 and in 1.5.x the procedures are slightly different.
Also, the loading of Color does not work in 3ds Max 2009 and earlier unless the Creative Extension is installed. If you are using Max 2010, then you are safe and just doing something wrong.

If you are using Krakatoa 1.5.x, the following changes apply:
*Particles do not render as self-illuminated if lighting is turned off, you have to provide an Emission channel (new in that version) with the values of the Color channel applied - there are several ways to do that, as explained in my Krakatoa Blog (http://lotsofparticles.blogspot.com/2009/10/krakatoa-confusing-changes-for-better.html).

*Then, the Particle Flow operators for reloading PRT files have been changed to use a PRT Loader as the source. Thus, most of the steps involving the second PFlow (the first really belongs disabled as described) are different in the new version of Krakatoa. You have to create a PRT Loader, then add Krakatoa PRT Birth and Krakatoa PRT Update operators and instead of picking a sequence from disk, you pick the PRT Loader instead. There you check the Position, ID and Color channels for loading and your baked particles with the camera mapped colors should appear.

Please replay with the version information so I can look into what you might be doing wrong.

thomaskc
10-31-2009, 10:34 PM
@Bobo

Thanks a lot for the information! makes sense then.

Im running 1.5.x on max 2008.

reading the about the changes on the blog and giving it another go.

ill post the new result.

thanks again.

thomaskc
11-01-2009, 12:15 AM
Let's start with the obvious questions: What version of Krakatoa, what version of Max?
The tutorial was written for 1.1.2 and in 1.5.x the procedures are slightly different.
Also, the loading of Color does not work in 3ds Max 2009 and earlier unless the Creative Extension is installed. If you are using Max 2010, then you are safe and just doing something wrong.

If you are using Krakatoa 1.5.x, the following changes apply:
*Particles do not render as self-illuminated if lighting is turned off, you have to provide an Emission channel (new in that version) with the values of the Color channel applied - there are several ways to do that, as explained in my Krakatoa Blog (http://lotsofparticles.blogspot.com/2009/10/krakatoa-confusing-changes-for-better.html).

*Then, the Particle Flow operators for reloading PRT files have been changed to use a PRT Loader as the source. Thus, most of the steps involving the second PFlow (the first really belongs disabled as described) are different in the new version of Krakatoa. You have to create a PRT Loader, then add Krakatoa PRT Birth and Krakatoa PRT Update operators and instead of picking a sequence from disk, you pick the PRT Loader instead. There you check the Position, ID and Color channels for loading and your baked particles with the camera mapped colors should appear.

Please replay with the version information so I can look into what you might be doing wrong.

Hmm Im thinking is it really necessary to do this in two steps, the baking i mean. couldn't you just setup the particle spawn and the deflector effects with the camera mapping nodes and bake it all in one go?

Bobo
11-01-2009, 01:32 AM
Hmm Im thinking is it really necessary to do this in two steps, the baking i mean. couldn't you just setup the particle spawn and the deflector effects with the camera mapping nodes and bake it all in one go?


First of all, the tutorial does not work in the shipping verson of Max 2008 (we have a fixed version of Max 2008 in the office with an update from Orbaz that fixes the problem reading a Color channel, but most people don't). It works in 2010 and in 2009 with Extension.

Second, if it was possible to do with a single pass, I would have done it (in fact, it IS possible to do, but using an inhouse plugin which you don't have).

The problem with projecting colors onto moving particles is that your particles would be moving through the projection. But you want your colors LOCKED to the particles. As a particle moves through space, it should still keep the color it would get from the projection if it did not move at all.

So the first pass bakes the colors into the particles (including any camera moves that change colors from frame to frame because of the changing projection image).

Then the second pass reads the particles with locked colors and blows them in space.

Hope this helps.

thomaskc
11-01-2009, 01:49 AM
@Bobo

Thanks mate, helps a lot! and yeah it makes total sense actually.

Ill look into it, thanks again!

MrFreitag
11-01-2009, 08:20 PM
hi,

maybe its a stupid question: i have three animated objects in one object (animation baked in pointcache). at this point i can't seperate the objects.
this three objects emit particles (in one event). my problem: every emitting object have different colors (submaterial). now i want to bake the 3 colors into the particles. it sounds simple, but kraka doesn't with submaterials?
thx. tom

thomaskc
11-02-2009, 03:41 AM
Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that I got everything to work as intended, thanks bobo.

http://thomaskc.dk/wip/krakatoa/3mill_krakatoa_render.mov

- Thomas

Bobo
11-02-2009, 05:00 AM
Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that I got everything to work as intended, thanks bobo.

http://thomaskc.dk/wip/krakatoa/3mill_krakatoa_render.mov

- Thomas

Glad to hear it worked.

I would suggest reducing the density a bit - usually it looks better if a single particle is not recognizable as a pixel. When you reduce the density, a particle will be perceived as "sub-pixel-sized", but with 3 million the original object would still look quite solid...

thomaskc
11-02-2009, 11:16 AM
Hmm I hear you.. that one was made with a density of 2,0 / -1 how much lower would you suggest it to go?

Bobo
11-02-2009, 02:20 PM
Hmm I hear you.. that one was made with a density of 2,0 / -1 how much lower would you suggest it to go?

Dude, you are the artist, you decide. :)
Here is the trick:

*Go to a frame you like.
*Check the Iterative Rendering button.
*Press the RENDER FRAME button.
*Check the PCache button.
RESULT: Particles will load and get cached in memory.
*Now tweak the Density value a bit and hit RENDER FRAME again.
RESULT: Particles won't waste time loading, just light and render.
*Keep on changing the value, for example try 1.0/-1, 5.0/-2. 1.0/-2 etc., and hit RENDER FRAME again

Even without the PCache, PFlow will generally cache the frame in memory, so as long as you are not changing any PFlow settings and the Krakatoa Channels requested remain the same, you can re-render much faster.

Working with Krakatoa requires iterations and tweaking just like with any other renderer. Over time, you will get a better idea of the typical values you need, but it is still an iterative process. That's what the whole monstrous UI is for ;)

In Max 2009 and higher, we even allow an optional set of controls (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/rendered_frame_window_extensions_1_5.php)to be enabled around the VFB for even more direct tweaking, including Interactive updates on value changes. So you just change the values and the image re-renders automatically (as long as the previous frame time was below a threshold). But AFAIK you are not using a Max version that supports that.

thomaskc
11-02-2009, 05:38 PM
Yeah I sure am! hehe its just I got a shit loads of things these days so my head is full.

I went and changed the density to 0.05 / -1 instead and the result is pretty nice i think.

http://thomaskc.dk/wip/krakatoa/3mill_krakatoa_render2.mov

slowmotion (12 fps):
http://thomaskc.dk/wip/krakatoa/3mill_krakatoa_render2_slow.mov

MrFreitag
11-05-2009, 10:36 AM
hi,

here is my first results with fumefx driven pflowparticle render with kraka. this is only a rnd-test. i can't render the hole seq because my harddrive is to small. i have to buy a new hdd. 1,8gb cache-file per frame..
http://www.vimeo.com/7435811

i asking the question before: it is possible to get the color from submaterial (emitter) for the particles?? (my test: with pflow+scanline it works, but krakatoa takes only the first submaterial for particles)

thx. tom.

JohnnyRandom
11-05-2009, 04:46 PM
Nice one(s) Tom(s) :D

Bobo
11-05-2009, 06:32 PM
hi,

i asking the question before: it is possible to get the color from submaterial (emitter) for the particles?? (my test: with pflow+scanline it works, but krakatoa takes only the first submaterial for particles)


Hi Tom,

It looks like a (kind of) known bug - material IDs are not being used correctly as it seems.
I will make sure it is properly logged and I hope we will get it fixed in the future. The same applies to PRT sequences in a PRT Loader that contain a MtlIndex channel.

Looking at the output of the a PFlow saved with MtlIndex channel to CSV file, the MtlIndex channel is always assumed 0 so something is broken it the code that is supposed to read that, otherwise it would have been possible to use a KCM in 1.5 to assign textures or colors to particles based on their MtlIndex.

Sorry for the inconvenience. If you want to discuss possible workarounds, please feel free to post here.

MrFreitag
11-07-2009, 12:47 PM
hey bobo, thanks for your information. it's not so nice ;] but i could seperate all my 6 emitterobject, cache it as 6 different prt's. and colorize with magmaflow. in this case i have a better control over the color.

tom

Bobo
11-07-2009, 03:55 PM
hey bobo, thanks for your information. it's not so nice ;] but i could seperate all my 6 emitterobject, cache it as 6 different prt's. and colorize with magmaflow. in this case i have a better control over the color.

tom

If you happen to have Box #3, you could write an index into some of the other channels (like MXSInteger) to define which particle in PFlow is expected to use which material.
Then you could save a single PRT and use MagmaFlow with some Switch and == Operators to colorize based on the value in the MXSInteger channel.

It can be done with a Script Operator too, but will be a bit slower. Still, it might be faster than having to split the system manually...

michael juice
11-13-2009, 05:29 PM
Hey


I'm back again! I have had a couple of weeks with really good results using Krakatoa, fumeFX and PFlow.

Right now im trying to render Krakatoa Voxels which follow a Fume sim on a per event basis using the phantom only option.

The reason i am doing this and not just rendering the fumefx fully in Krakatoa is I only want particles to be sent to the fume after doing some other stuff first.

1st problem is getting the particles that follow the fume to render like the fume or even the Krakatao version of the fume. Im guessing this is because when you use the Fumefx tick box in Krakatoa its actually using the voxels from Fume to guide the position of the particles.

But if you just get PFlow to follow a fume event and render it they dont seem to really "fill" the fume Grid it feels more like they "trace the outline of the vloume" or follow it (as the opereator implies)


IM getting OK results using lots of particles with fairly low density, set to voxel with some filtering, but not great results.



Secondly were having real trouble getting the DOF to render when using the Voxel renderer. It either crashes or is so slow its unsuable.

Any heads up would be great!

THanks

Mike

Bobo
11-13-2009, 06:45 PM
Hey


I'm back again! I have had a couple of weeks with really good results using Krakatoa, fumeFX and PFlow.

Right now im trying to render Krakatoa Voxels which follow a Fume sim on a per event basis using the phantom only option.

The reason i am doing this and not just rendering the fumefx fully in Krakatoa is I only want particles to be sent to the fume after doing some other stuff first.

1st problem is getting the particles that follow the fume to render like the fume or even the Krakatao version of the fume. Im guessing this is because when you use the Fumefx tick box in Krakatoa its actually using the voxels from Fume to guide the position of the particles.

But if you just get PFlow to follow a fume event and render it they dont seem to really "fill" the fume Grid it feels more like they "trace the outline of the vloume" or follow it (as the opereator implies)


IM getting OK results using lots of particles with fairly low density, set to voxel with some filtering, but not great results.



Secondly were having real trouble getting the DOF to render when using the Voxel renderer. It either crashes or is so slow its unsuable.

Any heads up would be great!

THanks

Mike

Krakatoa renders FumeFX by creating one particle per Fume voxel, thus producing a regular grid. When you use the PFlow operator, particles "flow" through the fume grid using the velocities found in the Fume voxels and are thus not guaranteed to be distributed evenly, thus what you are seeing is to be expected - some Krakatoa voxels might get several particles, others might get none and this changes over time, potentially producing flickering.

As for the DOF, this was reported as a bug recently (I think esp. when particles are BEHIND the camera). The workaround until this gets fixed would be to enable the MultiPass Motion Blur of the Camera. Of course, 12 passes MBlur will take 12 times longer, but at least it won't crash.

bighobbit
11-14-2009, 08:38 PM
Hello BObo would you please tell me if there is any way to control the voxel size by magmaflow?! i played with scale channel but noting happened!

Thanks :rolleyes:

Bobo
11-15-2009, 07:34 PM
Hello BObo would you please tell me if there is any way to control the voxel size by magmaflow?! i played with scale channel but noting happened!

Thanks :rolleyes:

Hi,

The voxel size defines a uniform grid with size in world units. It is a renderer property, not a particle data channel and thus cannot be controlled with MagmaFlow.

What we intend to add in the future is some form of Radius Data Channel that would allow you to easily register a single particle over a large number of voxels (think of a spherical shape converted to PRT Volume like in this example
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/images/krakatoa_geovolume_tp_render_voxels.png

So you could fill millions of voxels with just a thousand particles or so...

In the current implementation, each particle registers with exactly one voxel (when Filter Radius is set to 1). If the Filter Radius is increased, every voxel will sample a larger volume of neighboring voxels and get a portion of their particles' influence. So we intend to add a feature where a single particle will register with multiple voxels automatically, but I cannot tell when this might become available.

Right now, you could work around in various ways:
*You could load your PRT into PFlow, assign Spherical (or other) shapes, convert the PFlow to Mesher, convert Mesher to PRT Volume and thus fill large volumes with few particles (as on the image above which uses this approach).
*You could load your PRT file with M particles into PFlow and spawn N new particles for each loaded particle, while killing the original one. This will leave you with M*N particles that you could distribute in a random or gaussian sphere around the original position while inheriting all other channels like velocity etc. Then on the next frame, you would have to delete all particles you created on the previous frame by sending them to Delete by ID. Since the next PRT frame will contain the IDs of the original deleted particles, they would be created again, then they would spawn again while dying in the process and so on, potentially producing a PRT sequence that has the particles multiplied in large clouds around the original source positions. I have not tested this myself yet (although I have tried something very similar with big success), so I could be wrong.
*You could partition a PRT with the original PRT system loaded in a PRT Loader with either a KCM or a simple scripted modifier that shifts the particle position based on a random seed and a Radius or other Data Channel. The KCM would need an Input to control the seeding and a DNoise Operator using that Seed Input to change the "random" pattern. Add a Noise modifier with no Strength and connect the Input control to its Seed spinner so that Krakatoa would control the Seed of the KCM via the Noise's value. If you would partition this, you would get PRTs with particles shifted randomly based on the MagmaFlow, producing larger spherical particles. (there is also a global MAXScript variable to get the current seed that could be used as input via a Script Input node, see the documentation).

Hope you get the idea, there is a large field for improvisation with all the tools available, I am sure I have missed some options...

MatthiasM
11-16-2009, 02:16 PM
some objects i made consisting of particles, its not that advanced yet but cool possibilitys krakatoa offers for that stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0CmKORf5Vc&hd=1

Glacierise
11-16-2009, 03:01 PM
I really loved the last, hm, thing :D

JohnnyRandom
11-16-2009, 05:07 PM
some objects i made consisting of particles, its not that advanced yet but cool possibilitys krakatoa offers for that stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0CmKORf5Vc&hd=1

Nice Matthias, looking like some nice Box#2 integration if I am not mistaken, for emitters anyway :)

MatthiasM
11-16-2009, 05:40 PM
hey johnny, my box#2 and 3 trial already expired so its just basic pflow but the boxes are reeeaaaly cool anyways :)

Aldarion
11-16-2009, 06:20 PM
Cool stuff once again Matthias. Loved the previous ones as well, synced with music and all...really nice to just sit back and look at.

lebloganthrope
11-17-2009, 09:01 PM
Hi everyone,

I'm new to Krakatoa and I'm looking for the way to apply different colors to differents PRT loaders for example. The override color button acts for all particles...
I must miss something very simple but I don't see.

MatthiasM
11-18-2009, 03:56 PM
you can apply krakatoa materials to the prt loaders with different scattering (diffuse) colors. But dont forget to turn of the override color again.

lebloganthrope
11-18-2009, 05:00 PM
eh hello Matthias, it's funny that you are the one who answered me because I'm fan of your YouTube videos with Krakatoa and in particular, your "Beyonce Halo" is my reference.
I try to reproduce such double sources with different colors...
In which part of the Krakatoa GUI do I access to PRT materials? here again, it's perhaps a stupid question for experts like you... sorry

Bobo
11-18-2009, 07:35 PM
Hi everyone,

I'm new to Krakatoa and I'm looking for the way to apply different colors to differents PRT loaders for example. The override color button acts for all particles...
I must miss something very simple but I don't see.

Every PRT Loader is a separate scene object and controls the color as follows:
*If the particle file (PRT) does NOT contain a Color Channel, the particles will display/render with the wireframe (object) color of the PRT Loader.
*If the particle file contains a Color channel, it will be loaded and displayed/rendered (so if it was saved from PFlow or other systems, each particle could bring its own color along).
*If a Krakatoa Channels Modifier is assigned to the PRT Loader and modifies the Color channel, the changed colors will display/render.
*Unless a Material is assigned to the PRT Loader in which case the color of the material (including any supported maps) will define the colors of the particles. By default this overwrites the colors in both the Viewport and the Renderer. To ignore the Material's colors in the viewport, there is a checkbox "Ignore Material".
*If a Global Channels Override with color-related KCMs is defined in the Global Render Values rollout, this will modify ALL PRT Loaders (and other renderable particle systems) at RENDER TIME.
*If a Color Override is enabled (solid color or Map) in the Global Render Values rollout, it overrides ALL the above sources.

As you can see, this is a hierarchical systems with the later options overruling any of the higher on the list options.

So in your case, your best bets for coloring individual particles are Krakatoa Channel Modifiers and Materials. The KCMs can do things like color a particle based on various channels like Velocity, Position, Normal, Age and LifeSpan and many more -see the example in the documentation like here (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php#Color_Gradient_By_Age) and here (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/particle_channels_editor_examples.php).
The Material is usually applied either in 3D object space (procedural maps like Cellular) or to explicity UV coordinates (which should be present in the PRT file or must be generated by a KCM).
The last fact also lets you apply Marerials and Maps by manipulating the UVs of particles, for example see this example (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php#Color_Gradient_By_Age) of a color gradient based on Age/LifeSpan calculations.

lebloganthrope
11-19-2009, 10:54 PM
thanks Bobo for your detailed explanation.
For the moment, I tried simple materials applied on my sources and it works (of course with some lights in the scene)! :)

Bobo
11-19-2009, 11:17 PM
thanks Bobo for your detailed explanation.
For the moment, I tried simple materials applied on my sources and it works (of course with some lights in the scene)! :)

:)
You can make them render without lights, too.
I would suggest reading my related Blog here:
http://lotsofparticles.blogspot.com/

RFX
11-20-2009, 11:45 PM
First off, I come in peace in this post :D

Here's a little thing (http://rickfx.com/r&d/vortex_particles_v2.mov) I'm working on in Houdini. Looking for some look feedback from you guys, not really looking to be a competition, but looking for some feedback on trying to get a similar workflow and look going.

jlelievre
11-20-2009, 11:59 PM
I'd say you have the workflow down! Looks great! Not being that experienced in Houdini myself; is that a straight out of the box setup?

RFX
11-21-2009, 12:10 AM
I'd say you have the workflow down! Looks great! Not being that experienced in Houdini myself; is that a straight out of the box setup?

Requieres a bit of tweaking and setup, plus caching and a procedural shader to load in the bgeo(written out geometry files) at render time, but it's all built in stuff.

And yeah It's a straight up render here, no comp work.

Bobo
11-21-2009, 02:54 AM
First off, I come in peace in this post :D

Here's a little thing (http://rickfx.com/r&d/vortex_particles_v2.mov) I'm working on in Houdini. Looking for some look feedback from you guys, not really looking to be a competition, but looking for some feedback on trying to get a similar workflow and look going.

Welcome :)

Here is the feedback I tend to give people using Krakatoa - not sure how applicable it is to Houdini, but anyway...

In general, most new users of Krakatoa tend to make every particle stand out by setting the density too high. In fact, I read somewhere on a forum a comment about one rendering from another application (might have been Houdini) where someone said "looks grainy like Krakatoa" - which shows that the amount of newbies posting Krakatoa tests on YouTube is giving the renderer a bad reputation already ;)

The point of Krakatoa though is to render many millions of particles with relatively low density. The result is very smooth quality because it takes dozens or even hundreds of particles to cover a single pixel, and the gradients and anti-aliasing are quite smooth.
A great example of good Krakatoa work is the Ink video:
http://www.weareflink.com/index_ct.html

So if you can tweak the shading to get rid of the single particles floating around to get everything to be a bit more "smokey" (unless you are aiming at a sand storm look, of course), it might look ever more impressive.

Hope this helps!

pixelpro
11-25-2009, 10:07 PM
hi..
is there any way to use magmaflow color by age from this tutorial:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php
directing from PFLOW without saving particles to PRT Loader ?
(by using global or somthing ?)

thanks
yuval

Bobo
11-26-2009, 12:21 AM
hi..
is there any way to use magmaflow color by age from this tutorial:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php
directing from PFLOW without saving particles to PRT Loader ?
(by using global or somthing ?)

thanks
yuval

Yes, open the Global Render Values rollout, create a new Global Channels Override Set (this automatically creates and opens a global KCM), change the flow to the one from the tutorial and your particles should render as expected.

Note that a Global KCM is applied at render time only so there is no way to preview in the viewport without saving to PRT first. Let me know if you have any problems with this approach...

As usual, you need to define a LifeSpan by adding a Delete operator to the PFlow, otherwise the particles will have infinite life expectancy and won't change color. But you probably know that already ;)

JonathanFreisler
11-26-2009, 12:41 AM
A great example of good Krakatoa work is the Ink video:
http://www.weareflink.com/index_ct.html



Thats Kraktastic! Kraktacular?

I hadent seen that before, great use of fume and krakatoa, lovely ad.

pixelpro
11-26-2009, 10:51 PM
i created the same flows to the global but the only color i see in render is the first flag color of the gradient ramp..
maybe i need to add to the pflow somthing extra ?
(like "krakatoa option" or somthing?)

another quastion : can i assign different magma flows and materials to different pflows?

thanks..
yuval

Bobo
11-26-2009, 11:31 PM
i created the same flows to the global but the only color i see in render is the first flag color of the gradient ramp..
maybe i need to add to the pflow somthing extra ?
(like "krakatoa option" or somthing?)

another quastion : can i assign different magma flows and materials to different pflows?

thanks..
yuval


Try this:
*Add the Global Channel Override as described, make it set the TextureCoord channel. (equivalent to Mapping Channel 1).
*Enable >Override Color and put the Gradient Ramp into the Map slot of the Color Override.

If you would render now, the Color Override should apply the Gradient Ramp using Mapping Channel 1 created by the Global KCM and do the Color By Age trick.

Using a Material in the PFlow does not work because the KCM is applied AFTER the material is evaluated, thus the UVs do not exist yet when the Gradient Ramp is processed.

I found a bug in the processing of Global KCMs - if you add another KCM to the Global Channel Overrides with a Texture Input node setting the Color channel AFTER the TextureCoord one, it does not "see" the UVs. You have to put it BELOW the TextureCoord KCM - looks like the stack of the Override holder is evaluated in the wrong order (there was a bug like that we fixed on regular objects, but we must have missed this). So you can alternatively add a Color KCM below the TextureCoord global KCM and set the Gradient using it....

And I will go log the bug :)
(EDIT: It is now fixed for the upcoming 1.5.2 update)

You cannot assign different MagmaFlows to different PFlows yet. This might be possible in the future. We plan MagmaFlow Materials (the node flow will live in a dedicated material that could be assigned to any particle system including PFlow), and possibly a scene object that captures particles directly from PFlow (kind of like a Compound object) allowing you to add arbitrary KCMs and Deformation Modifiers to the PFlow particles without saving to disk.

friedpixels
11-30-2009, 07:15 PM
:)
You can make them render without lights, too.
I would suggest reading my related Blog here:
http://lotsofparticles.blogspot.com/

To be honest Bobo i think i've almost held this opinion as well. Everything that comes out of krakatoa seems to have a distinct look, but then when I see the people who really know what they are doing use it -- the images that come out are stunning. I think also people sometimes forget no matter how beautiful krakatoa renders out your animation, if the particle animation isn't good, the render isn't going to be good. I think the examples provided within this thread and the primefocus forums are such great tools to work by, even for aspiring animators trying to learn the ropes. It may just be a few settings to tweak, but it's learning how those tiny details make a render really shine. I personally thank you for all your hard work and your continuous support through the web.

cheers.

Patokid
12-03-2009, 12:41 AM
Theoretically, we could allow PF Source Emitters to be specified in a Matte Named Selection Set so that their geometry would be used as matte instead of rendering the particles as points. In practice though, this approach would probably be as fast/slow as the Mesher - the system still has to be evaluated and its render TriMesh acquired. The Mesher does what Krakatoa would do internally anyway, the only difference is that the Mesher exists in the scene as a node while the other method would do the extraction directly. But it would be a real mess if PFlows could be selected as mattes, because in many cases they could be there by accident and it wouldn't be obvious to the user why the scene renders in unexpected ways.
Have you tried disabling the display of the PFlow and of the Mesher in the viewports to speed things up? How much does the Mesher slow down rendering compared to evaluating the same PFlow without the Mesher? (Talking about Scanline rendering of the system as mesh here)

I tried using a normal pflow as a matte, but Krakatoa won't accept it. My scene is a mix of krakatoa particles and geometric pflow for bigger pieces, I just couldn't use the particles as a matte.
Also, I have a realflow mesh to use as a matte, and it doesn't work as it should. When i render a single frame, everything works well, and you can see the occlusion of the realflow mesh, but when I try to render the sequence, krakatoa simply ignores it. The realflow mesh is changing poly quantities as the sequence plays, so I wonder if the matte object update is not still fully developed?

noouch
12-03-2009, 01:15 AM
I remember having trouble with RealFlow meshes and Krakatoa. I had submitted a bug report, but the problem seemed to be Next Limit's RealFlow plugin not updating the mesh at every frame as it should. I worked around the problem by writing a little script that consisted of a for() loop that called render() and then incremented the slider time. It's clunky but it worked decently for me.

Patokid
12-03-2009, 06:09 PM
I remember having trouble with RealFlow meshes and Krakatoa. I had submitted a bug report, but the problem seemed to be Next Limit's RealFlow plugin not updating the mesh at every frame as it should. I worked around the problem by writing a little script that consisted of a for() loop that called render() and then incremented the slider time. It's clunky but it worked decently for me.

Do you sell this script? is there any way I can convince you to provide it?

Als
12-03-2009, 08:25 PM
Following the thread, some amazing work there... :thumbsup:


Regards


Als

PS
Are we there yet? ;)

ctp
12-03-2009, 08:34 PM
:D I second you on that: "Are we there yet?"

Please ;)

Bobo
12-03-2009, 09:19 PM
:D I second you on that: "Are we there yet?"

Please ;)

We are slowly moving in that direction, but not there yet.

ctp
12-03-2009, 09:22 PM
WooooooHoooooo! Slowly is better than not. Excellent!

noouch
12-04-2009, 12:03 PM
Do you sell this script? is there any way I can convince you to provide it?
To sell it would be the most shameless money I ever made ;)
I didn't save it, but I think it went something like this:
for i in 1 to (animationrange.end.frame as integer) do
(
outFile = @"G:\renderfiles\render_.tga"
render outputfile:outFile cancelled:&wasCancelled outputHDRbitmap:true
sliderTime += 1
if wasCancelled then exit
)
Let me know how it works for you.

Patokid
12-04-2009, 06:32 PM
To sell it would be the most shameless money I ever made ;)
I didn't save it, but I think it went something like this:
for i in 1 to (animationrange.end.frame as integer) do
(
outFile = @"G:\renderfiles\render_.tga"
render outputfile:outFile cancelled:&wasCancelled outputHDRbitmap:true
sliderTime += 1
if wasCancelled then exit
)
Let me know how it works for you.

It actually works although there's a small problem: it renders the whole sequence, but saves it on only one file.

Bobo
12-04-2009, 08:03 PM
It actually works although there's a small problem: it renders the whole sequence, but saves it on only one file.

You will have to build the file name for each iteration of the loop yourself.
Thankfully, since you are rendering in Krakatoa, you can use a function provided by our Interface:

FranticParticles.ReplaceSequenceNumber @"G:\renderfiles\render_.tga" 10
-->"G:\renderfiles\render_0010.tga"

So the code could look like


(
theBaseFile = @"G:\renderfiles\render_.tga"
for i in 1 to (animationrange.end.frame as integer) do
(
outFile = FranticParticles.ReplaceSequenceNumber theBaseFile i
render outputfile:outFile cancelled:&wasCancelled outputHDRbitmap:true
sliderTime += 1
if wasCancelled then exit
)
)


Also, it is better to save to .EXR instead.

Patokid
12-05-2009, 05:30 PM
Thank you very much! I will try it this way!

sapirivan
12-11-2009, 08:59 AM
can some one tell me how do i open the krakatoa ui?
for some reason it didn't make a krakatoa toolbar in the customize

JonathanFreisler
12-11-2009, 01:36 PM
can some one tell me how do i open the krakatoa ui?
for some reason it didn't make a krakatoa toolbar in the customize

*sigh* open the render dialog and look around in there.

Bobo
12-11-2009, 02:29 PM
can some one tell me how do i open the krakatoa ui?
for some reason it didn't make a krakatoa toolbar in the customize

If you don't see a Krakatoa CATEGORY in the Customize UI Dialog, or there is no Krakatoa entry in the Render dialog (where you assign a renderer), then it is quite likely that the plugin.ini was not modified correctly (it can happen on Vista and Win7 if UAC is on).

Have you looked into your plugin.ini file?
Have you read the Installation instructions here (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/installation.php)? (see the bottom of the page for manual steps to fix this).

Bmoner
12-16-2009, 08:44 AM
I hope this isn't a dumb question, but I've been fiddling with Krakatoa for about a week and am wondering what materials does it support?

Like does/can it support regular Max Materials? And, if so, how do I apply? Is it going to take the material values from my PFlow event?

I watched some tutorials on it, but I'm working with 1.5.1.BFE and the interface is VASTLY different than what is shown in the tutorials.

If you don't see a Krakatoa CATEGORY in the Customize UI Dialog, or there is no Krakatoa entry in the Render dialog (where you assign a renderer), then it is quite likely that the plugin.ini was not modified correctly (it can happen on Vista and Win7 if UAC is on).

Have you looked into your plugin.ini file?
Have you read the Installation instructions here (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/installation.php)? (see the bottom of the page for manual steps to fix this).

I've been a Maya user for the past 6-7 years, and have just now started to get back into the groove of Max. That being said, I've lost ALL of my Max skills. I can see the Krakatoa Category in the Customize UI Dialog...but how do I make that into a toolbar?

Bobo
12-16-2009, 05:18 PM
I hope this isn't a dumb question, but I've been fiddling with Krakatoa for about a week and am wondering what materials does it support?

Like does/can it support regular Max Materials? And, if so, how do I apply? Is it going to take the material values from my PFlow event?

I watched some tutorials on it, but I'm working with 1.5.1.BFE and the interface is VASTLY different than what is shown in the tutorials.


Sorry for being dense myself, but what the heck is "BFE"? :)
This was of no help: http://www.acronymfinder.com/bfe.html

Also, the Online Manual reflects the current 1.5.1.38002 build. The video tutorials from 2007 are indeed quite old already, but I had not time to do new ones this time around. Possibly after the next release of 3ds Max next year...

Regarding materials and shading in general:

*Krakatoa accepts the Standard Material of Max, at least some aspects of it. The Diffuse color is used as the Color Channel source, the Self-Illumination is used as Emission Channel source, the Opacity slot is used as a Density multiplier, and the Filter Color is used as the Absorption Channel source. When Krakatoa is in Phong Surface shading mode and the >Allocate SpecularLevel and SpecularPower checkbuttons are checked, the Specular Level and Glossiness values of the Standard Material will also be used to populate the per-particle channels that control the specularity.
All these channels support map trees of arbitrary depth, including all procedural 3D maps and 2D maps as long as the particles provide valid UV coordinates. Even the Falloff map is supported with all its modes (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/falloff_map_support.php).
The Standard Material can be assigned to a Material Operator of PFlow (so it can be assigned per-event). It can also be assigned to a legacy particle system, geometry object (when reading vertices as particles), and to the Krakatoa objects - PRT Loader and PRT Volume. So you can save your PFlow to PRT files, load in a PRT Loader and assign a material to it as usual.

*Krakatoa also provides a simpler Krakatoa Material which can be applied ONLY to Krakatoa objects (PRT Loader, PRT Volume) since it operates on the particle channels directly.

*Speaking of particle channels, you can wire your own shaders using Krakatoa Channel Modifiers which can read and write all channels like the Color, Emission, Absorption, Normals, SpecularLevel/Power, Eccentricity, Density etc. In fact, you can implement new shading models (or existing ones, as with the Blinn Shading example here (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/particle_channels_editor_examples.php#Blinn_Shading_Using_One_Light)). We are working on expanding the number of nodes available in MagmaFlow in the future, but you should be able to do some typical shader development there.

*Krakatoa assumes the Vertex Color channel (Mapping Channel 0) is the Color channel, so any particle source that provides a valid Vertex Color channel will render that data as Color automatically, so you can even write shaders as PFlow Script Operators or Box #3 DataOps (as shown in some of the tutorials (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/particle_color_by_speed_using_maxscript.php) in the Krakatoa manual).
Using a Vertex Color Map in any Standard Material slot, you can also convert any of the 100 Mapping channels into a color and feed into any map slot (or MagmaFlow), but it is slower than a comparable simple MagmaFlow that just reads the Mapping channel and writes the data to the target channel.

*Krakatoa itself provides several shading modes (Phase Functions) that change the way light is processed as it passes through space filled with particles. Isotropic just scatters light in all directions uniformly, Phong Surface calculates (even volumetric!) specular highlights based off the particles normals and per-particle specularity channels, Schlick and H-G calculate variable scattering based off the viewing angle and an eccentricity component which can be defined per particle for advanced sub-pixel-quality effects, and we are working on more for future versions. These modes modify how the data provided by the materials and KCMs is used in the shading process.

*Krakatoa supports some basic environment reflections (http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/KRA_Dragon_Reflection_Turntable_v001.mov) using the global environment map, but I am pushing for per-material support of the Environment slot and for more control over the intensity of the effect.

In general, Krakatoa is a "toolkit". Most tools have their limitations, but you can combine some of the tools in new ways to get what you need. Since Krakatoa renders only particles, a lot of the "surface shading" abilities of other renderers had to be abandoned because they make little sense in volumetric terms. But with low-level access to all relevant shading (and other) channels, you should be able to achieve most effects you need.

I can see the Krakatoa Category in the Customize UI Dialog...but how do I make that into a toolbar?


http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/macroscripts.php

Quote:
Installation and Customization




The MacroScripts can be found in the Main Menu > Customize User Interface... > Krakatoa category.
Then just drag and drop to a toolbar (you can create a new one if you want).

Bmoner
12-16-2009, 07:33 PM
Hey. Yeah I read all of that about the materials. I just need to know how to apply it to the particle system and have it show up in the render. That's the part I can't figure out. I've been copying and instancing like crazy and still can't get it.

NOTE: BFE means B*tt F*cking Egypt. It was too many numbers to type after that.

Bobo
12-16-2009, 07:36 PM
Hey. Yeah I read all of that about the materials. I just need to know how to apply it to the particle system and have it show up in the render. That's the part I can't figure out. I've been copying and instancing like crazy and still can't get it.

*Start a new scene
*Open Particle Flow
*Drag the Standard Flow preset to the Particle View, adjust the Birth Amount to 200000 or so.
*Drag a Material Dynamic operator to the Event.
*Open Material Editor, drag the first slot onto the button "None" button of the Operator.
*Set the Diffuse Color of the Material to something recognizable like Red
*Add an Omni light to the scene to illuminate your particles (otherwise they will render black), or alternatively set the Self-Illumination color to something and enable Emission in the Krakatoa GUI to render without lights.
*Go to a frame other than zero, like 21 for example.
*Open Krakatoa GUI with default settings and hit Render.

Result: I am getting a solid rectangular red column of particles.

*Now add a Cellular Map to the Diffuse slot of the Material and hit Render again - I get the particles shaded with cellular patterns. Change the colors or assign more maps inside this map to create fancier looks. (Don't use 2D maps like a bitmap since your particles currently have no Mapping Coordinates assigned).

Do you get the same results? What step were you missing?

Hope this helps...

Bmoner
12-17-2009, 09:19 AM
I'll give this a go in a bit. Does it have to be an Omni? I've been using directional lights and spot lights...and the particles were rendering out shades of white and gray. If it had to be an omni instead, then that may be why I was getting those results.

JonathanFreisler
12-17-2009, 09:34 AM
Any light will work. He was saying use an omni just so the particles don't render black. A simple omni in the scene will act as just a general default light if you will.

Bobo
12-17-2009, 02:30 PM
I'll give this a go in a bit. Does it have to be an Omni? I've been using directional lights and spot lights...and the particles were rendering out shades of white and gray. If it had to be an omni instead, then that may be why I was getting those results.

It doesn't have to be an omni, but for a quick test, it is a Single Click Operation as compared to targeting a direct or free or target spot light. :)
In fact, Omnis are not supported in Voxel mode, only in particle mode, so I should probably not suggest using them on forums ;)

But since I was describing a simplest case possible starting with a blank scene, adding a light is a prerequisite in 1.5.x for rendering something visible...

Bmoner
12-17-2009, 03:46 PM
It doesn't have to be an omni, but for a quick test, it is a Single Click Operation as compared to targeting a direct or free or target spot light. :)

Okay I found out something interesting. My simulation had 3.75M particles in it. When I did this exact material application...nothing happened.

Now...I tried what you told me and it worked! BUT...I tried increasing my values more and more and found that after 150k particles in the birth field they STOP RENDERING with the applied material which explains why I couldn't see them.

So I'm guessing I had to override the particle color to even be able to see them. Any idea why this is happening?

I'm using:
Windows 7 Ultimate x64
3ds Max 2010 x4
Krakatoa (Latest Release)

Update:

For some reason I had to turn my speed down in order to see the shaded particles when over 150k. Again, the tower-o-particles renders fine when the number is 150k or under, but as soon as I bump it up, it's like the speed goes up too which is why I thought I couldn't see them and this is...odd.

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo298/Bmoner85/Posts/pFviewPort.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo298/Bmoner85/Posts/150k.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo298/Bmoner85/Posts/175k.jpg

Bobo
12-17-2009, 04:46 PM
For some reason I had to turn my speed down in order to see the shaded particles when over 150k. Again, the tower-o-particles renders fine when the number is 150k or under, but as soon as I bump it up, it's like the speed goes up too which is why I thought I couldn't see them and this is...odd.


PFlow has an artificial limit of 100K particles found in the Emitter's "System Management>Particle Mount>Upper Limit" rollout/spinner.

Krakatoa, when opened after a PFlow is created, is supposed to bump up this value to 100 milllion or so, but it is possible that the auto-increase was disabled in the Krakatoa Preferences, or that you created the PFlow after Krakatoa GUI was opened.

If you are emitting from frame 0 to frame 30 with 150K in Amount, around frame 20 you will have 100K particles and they will stop showing up.

If that value is higher than 100K and is thus not the problem, then I will have to see at least a screenshot of the flow that has the issue, or even better, get a ZIP of the scene to look at.

Bmoner
12-17-2009, 05:35 PM
Hmm yeah I just did a test and it didn't up the limit automatically...so I pressed the "Do it now!" button and it did. No problem here anymore.

Bobo
12-17-2009, 08:17 PM
Hmm yeah I just did a test and it didn't up the limit automatically...so I pressed the "Do it now!" button and it did. No problem here anymore.

I have made it a habit to check/increase that value when I create a PFlow.
Here is a page we wrote about it before releasing Krakatoa 1.0:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/3dsmax_settings.php

Bobo
12-18-2009, 07:16 PM
This just in:
Krakatoa was used to generate some of the holographic displays in Avatar. (You can ask PsychoSilence for more details on the workflow ;))

http://www.primefocusworld.com/work/portfolio/avatar-twentieth-century-fox

Glacierise
12-18-2009, 10:59 PM
Just saw it! And I was talking to the other people sharing impressions after, and at a moment I glanced the screen and saw you dudes' names - Bobo, Laszlo, Anselm :) Yuppie! A most impressive film, this one was :) Even with the hippie overdose :)

DeKo-LT
12-19-2009, 02:39 PM
Hey, congrats on that, really spectacular works.

plug3
12-19-2009, 10:17 PM
Hi,

Is there a tutorial somewhere about creating a PRT volume and using it as an initial state of a PFlow event (applying forces, collision, etc.)?
I get the concept of creating a PF source then saving and rendering using PRT loader but I'm having problem going the other way around. It looks like it's possible. I must be missing something.

Thanks.

JohnnyRandom
12-20-2009, 01:21 AM
I'll give it a shot...

Create a Krakatoa PRT Volume add your object

Open the Krakatoa UI

In the 'Main Controls' Rollout - Switch the default render mode from Render Scene Particles to Save Scene Particles

In the Channels Rollout - Choose any additional channels you wish to save (in most cases the defaults should be fine)

In the 'Save Particles' Rollout - Select your output path

Since you are using this as a birth object you should only need to save out 1 frame. Go back to the Main Controls rollout right+click the 'Save Particles' Button to see that you are set to render a single frame+current Frame number. Click the 'Save Particles' button to save out the single frame. A dialog will popup to confirm what channels your are about to save and what frames, click 'Ok' to save the particles.

In the Particle Loaders Rollout - Click 'Create New Loader'

This by default will create a new PRT loader at 0,0,0 and open up the Choose PRT Sequence Dialog, choose the PRT sequence you just saved.


While the Krakatoa UI is still open and you are working in it, switch the render mode back to either Particles Or Voxels. Doing this now may save you from accidentally writing over you particle sequence.

Open the Particle View and Create a standard flow

Remove the Standard Birth operator and replace it with a Krakatoa PRT Birth operator.

Select the Birth operator and click the button labeled 'None', now choose the PRT loader that contains your single Frame PRT sequence. A confirmation dialog will popup and ask if you wish to set the Render Visibility State of the PRT Loader, since you are loading these into Particle Flow you may want to choose yes to disable it, or at the very least don't forget to switch it off before you render.


I thinks that's about it.


EDIT: BTW PFvfx, great work on Avatar! :cool:

jigu
12-20-2009, 03:49 AM
I am going tonite for the movie. Can't wait to see it.

Congrates Primefocus for being part of such great movie.

pixelpro
12-21-2009, 07:53 PM
hi..
i need a hellp on how to render realflow cash with PRT loader
and use the velocity to color (with gradient ramp)
there is any tutorial on how to create this effect?

thanks
yuval kolton

Bobo
12-22-2009, 05:49 AM
hi..
i need a hellp on how to render realflow cash with PRT loader
and use the velocity to color (with gradient ramp)
there is any tutorial on how to create this effect?

thanks
yuval kolton

There are tutorials on how to convert velocity to color with other particles (loaded from PRT or using PFlow directly) as well as tutorials on how to color particles with a gradient based on Age/Lifespan and FumeFX Temperature.
Assuming the data in the RealFlow BIN file contains the necessary channels, the approach should be similar.

Of course, I have no idea what is in the BIN files, so YMMV. Have you actually TRIED to do something and failed, or are you just hoping someone else will do all the work? ;)
If you can provide a simple sample particle BIN file, I could take a look to see if it would work or not.

plug3
12-23-2009, 01:13 AM
Thank you JohnnyRandom.

Also found this tutorial that helped me understand the process a little more:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/using_prt_loader_birth_and_update.php

I am making progress. There seems to be a lot of back and forth between Max and Krakatoa (setup - save particles - load particles - modify particles - save particles - render particles)

SerdarVFX
12-23-2009, 01:30 PM
are there any good Krakatoa Video tutorials?
From Basics to advanced usage?

thx

Bobo
12-23-2009, 04:14 PM
are there any good Krakatoa Video tutorials?
From Basics to advanced usage?

thx

No, there are no such tutorials (yet). I think it is a great idea, but it requires two things - Knowledge and Time. I currently lack the latter, but I hope this will change in the future.

pixelpro
12-26-2009, 06:32 PM
hi.
im trying to render particles inside a alley and i need the walls to cast the sun shadow on the particles.. the walls are matt object and its working with particles but not with voxels..
anyone can hellp?

thanks
yuval

Bobo
12-26-2009, 09:40 PM
hi.
im trying to render particles inside a alley and i need the walls to cast the sun shadow on the particles.. the walls are matt object and its working with particles but not with voxels..
anyone can hellp?

thanks
yuval

Matte objects should cast shadows on both particles and voxels as long as the light has the Shadows checkbox turned on. Not sure why you are getting what you are getting.

If you can create a simple example scene that shows the problem or can provide exact steps to reproduce the issue, please post a bug on the Krakatoa support forum.

pixelpro
12-27-2009, 02:24 PM
and thank you bobo for your patience.. :)

here is a image that show the problem with voxel.

hope it gives you enough information on the scene..

thanks
yuval

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1269/krakatoasettings.jpg

Bobo
12-27-2009, 05:28 PM
and thank you bobo for your patience.. :)

here is a image that show the problem with voxel.

hope it gives you enough information on the scene..



Yes, I could reproduce the problem, this looks like something that will be fixed in 1.5.2 (sometime next month I hope).

In the meantime, here is a workaround:

*Switch to "Particle Rendering".
*Switch to "Save Particles To File Sequence" mode.
*Enter a sequence name in the Save Particles rollout.
*In the Channels rollout, check the "Calculate Lighting And Copy Lighting Channel Into Emission Channel When Saving" option - this will add the Emission channel to the list of channels to save.
*Make sure all relevant channels like Color and Velocity are included.
*Save the frame or sequence of frames to PRT.

*Now hide all particle sources you had in the scene.
*Create a new PRT Loader at the origin of the world and load the sequence you just saved.
*Check >Ignore Scene Lights and >Use Emission.
*Make sure the rendering of PRT Loaders is enabled.
*Switch back to "Render Scene Particles" mode.
*Switch the renderer to Voxels and render

The lighting calculated and saved in Particle Mode into the Emission channel will now load and render the Voxels with the correct matte and shadows. Effectively, we have baked the lighting of the Particle Mode into the PRT file sequence and we can now render in both Particle and Voxel mode without lights to get the same lighting solution.

I know this complicates the workflow and eats up a lot of disk space, but until we provide a fix for all known bugs (the list of the already fixed ones is quite impressive) in the form of a 1.5.2 update, it will get you going...

Sorry for the inconvenience!

rebolt
01-04-2010, 08:25 PM
I am working on a simulation right now, as i save my particles of the scene into the disk. It takes almost 10 min. to update the particles although once the updation is done it doesn't take too long to save the particles Also as i have taken 10 mil. particles in my scene and gave 5 partitions to it, it updates the particles everytime it finishes one partition which is again a pain stalking for me due to more time consumtion. and infact render them but its taking hell lot of time while updating, can anybody tell me if i reduce that time ?

jlelievre
01-04-2010, 08:31 PM
What if you decrease the amount of pflow particles, and use many more partitions? Try using 1 million particles and render out 50 partitions... in theory you should get the same basic look but it will spend less time updating when it goes through the pflow update calculations.

Hope this helps,

JohnnyRandom
01-04-2010, 08:50 PM
And/Or write out 1 PRT add to a new loader and Partition the PRT loader 5 times, 10 times, 50 times, or whatever. The only update you will deal with then is the PRT loader instead of Pflow.

Also possible to Cache Disk or Cache Selective(if you have enough ram) if you have box#3.

rebolt
01-04-2010, 09:34 PM
And/Or write out 1 PRT add to a new loader and Partition the PRT loader 5 times, 10 times, 50 times, or whatever. The only update you will deal with then is the PRT loader instead of Pflow.

Also possible to Cache Disk or Cache Selective(if you have enough ram) if you have box#3.

Please can you elaborate how to execute it ?

JohnnyRandom
01-04-2010, 10:42 PM
Sure,

Setup up your particle flow as usual and save it out to a single PRT like you normally would. Main Controls -> Save Particles to File Sequences, big SAVE PARTICLES button method.

When finished saving, add a new PRT loader and add the freshly saved Pflow data to it.

Turn off your Particle Flow emission now.

Open the Krakatoa UI and Go to the Save Particles Rollout create a new save path so you do not accidentally overwrite your existing Pflow save data.(it won't write it over anyway when writing partitions as the naming convention is different but if you happen to press the big button on accident you could hose some frames)

Go back to the Main Controls rollout and uncheck all but the PRT Loaders.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/4246233370_01561ec373_o.gif

Go to the Partitioning rollout, choose the amount of Partitions that you would like to generate and press the Generate All Partitions Locally button or submit to Deadline.

That is about the gist of it.

Now you can load all the new partitions you just created to your original PRT Loader and then re-partition those 10 times too if you like :) So basically I just started with a simple Pflow setup that created 7015 particles total, less than a twenty second it was saved to a PRT, it then took less than 2 minutes to setup and save the next 5 partitions, I repartitioned it again into 10 partitions at less than 4 minutes, I now have 1 million particles in a little over 5 minutes. Of course that being a low number in Krakatoas world but saving out 1 million particles from the same pflow setup took approx 10+ minutes on my machine.

Bobo
01-05-2010, 12:58 AM
Sure,

Setup up your particle flow as usual and save it out to a single PRT like you normally would. Main Controls -> Save Particles to File Sequences, big SAVE PARTICLES button method.

When finished saving, add a new PRT loader and add the freshly saved Pflow data to it.

Turn off your Particle Flow emission now.

Open the Krakatoa UI and Go to the Save Particles Rollout create a new save path so you do not accidentally overwrite your existing Pflow save data.(it won't write it over anyway when writing partitions as the naming convention is different but if you happen to press the big button on accident you could hose some frames)

Go back to the Main Controls rollout and uncheck all but the PRT Loaders.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/4246233370_01561ec373_o.gif

Go to the Partitioning rollout, choose the amount of Partitions that you would like to generate and press the Generate All Partitions Locally button or submit to Deadline.


Uhm, sorry but this is just a good way to waste disk space.
The real trick is to add a Noise Modifier on top of the PRT Loader, set it to a very high frequency as described here (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/partitioning_existing_file_sequences_and_vertices.php), then enable the Seed modification of PRT Loader Modifiers in the Partitioning rollout (there is an option for that), THEN partition. The positions of the particles will be jittered around a bit and will create a more dense-looking cloud. BUT it will be a bit fuzzy. If you want really good results, going through the normal partitioning method is the way to go.
Btw reducing the number of particles per partition and doing more partitions will only speed things up if you use a renderfarm or multiple workstations to do the processing in parallel. Otherwise the cumulative time will be about the same.

JohnnyRandom
01-05-2010, 02:50 AM
Interesting, my whole point was just about eliminating the overhead of Particle Flow calculations at Krakatoa save/rendertime. So you are saying it is faster/better to Save to PRT with 50 million particles (or whatever million particles) from pflow over 10 partitions as opposed to saving 50 million particles once to PRT then generating 10 partitions off of a single PRT loader? You have 10 partitions worth of pflow calculations + writes as opposed to 1 pflow calculation to either Disk Cache or PRT Loader + 10 I/O read/writes.

I don't see how it would be better to generate your partitions off of a non-cached object. Am I missing something?

EDIT: Also I had been meaning to ask, when using Deadline in Courtesy mode can the 2 machines be controlled by a host or is it host machine plus one? I am a little confused, I haven't used Deadline since version1 and can't remember how I had it setup and what worked.

Bobo
01-05-2010, 05:00 AM
Interesting, my whole point was just about eliminating the overhead of Particle Flow calculations at Krakatoa save/rendertime. So you are saying it is faster/better to Save to PRT with 50 million particles (or whatever million particles) from pflow over 10 partitions as opposed to saving 50 million particles once to PRT then generating 10 partitions off of a single PRT loader? You have 10 partitions worth of pflow calculations + writes as opposed to 1 pflow calculation to either Disk Cache or PRT Loader + 10 I/O read/writes.

I don't see how it would be better to generate your partitions off of a non-cached object. Am I missing something?

EDIT: Also I had been meaning to ask, when using Deadline in Courtesy mode can the 2 machines be controlled by a host or is it host machine plus one? I am a little confused, I haven't used Deadline since version1 and can't remember how I had it setup and what worked.

It is quite possible that I am missing something :)
What I am saying is that you cannot really reduce the PFlow overhead if you want 50 million particles to flow through it. They will have to flow through it to get the best looking result possible. It does not matter how many partitions will be created, if the total count is 50 million, that's how much work will have to be done.

Simply resaving a PRT Loader's content multiple times without any modifiers does not change anything about the particles since partitioning requires some Random Seed to change aspects of the particle data (typically positions).

The workaround with a PRT Loader and partitioning it is that you can process only, say 1/10 of the particles through PFlow (5 million in this case), then produce 10 partitions with the particles slightly offset using a noise field. The result is NOT the same because 9/10 of the particles have NOT flown directly through PFlow, they are just randomly offset versions of the single partition that went through PFlow. But if the desire is to get higher volumetric density without using voxels and the fuzzy look is ok (for example for most kind of non-wispy dense smoke), then the PRT Loader partitioning is an option.

As for Deadline, it means two Slaves, Workers, Machines That Render, whatever you call them. Workstations submitting jobs haver need a license and never will. There is nothing controlling Deadline (as opposed to the Manager of Backburner and pretty much every other network manager). Deadline Slaves are smart workers and deal with the jobs themselves, thus the added stability since there is no central app that can crash and take the whole farm down. Your own workstation could be used both for submitting jobs and for rendering them, so if you have two PCs at home, that's good enough to try it out.

rebolt
01-05-2010, 05:54 AM
Ok gotcha :thumbsup: Thanks Joel, Johny & Bobo. I am facing a problem right now as i am rendering the smoke with "Force Addictive Mode" But as i am rendering the whole sequence i am not getting the Alpha of the smoke although if i render without Force Addictive Mode, then i am getting the alpha for the smoke. Why is that happening ?

dim1984kimo
01-05-2010, 07:17 AM
hi,

I noticed the krakatoa render had its own 'grid-like' shader, as my attachment, how come?

Did I make something wrong?

Bobo
01-05-2010, 03:27 PM
Ok gotcha :thumbsup: Thanks Joel, Johny & Bobo. I am facing a problem right now as i am rendering the smoke with "Force Addictive Mode" But as i am rendering the whole sequence i am not getting the Alpha of the smoke although if i render without Force Addictive Mode, then i am getting the alpha for the smoke. Why is that happening ?


Additive Rendering does produce alpha. It is the way it is.

Additive Rendering is fully Self-Illuminated with zero Absorption and zero Diffusion. Just the RGB is accumulated, no alpha because a particle with no absorption and diffusion does not block or diffuse light as it passes through it.

If you need something like Alpha, you can use the RGB's intensity (or render Additive with white color) to get something similar to Alpha. But keep in mind that Alpha in Volumetric (non-additive) mode describes the resulting volumetric density as seen through the cloud, so if you composite on top of some object, the Alpha will define how much you see of that background (the more particles, the less light passes through and the less you see).

In the case of Additve rendering, nothing is blocking your sight through the cloud because the particles are just glowing and otherwise completely transparent. If there were anything behind the particles, it would be fully seen, with the accumulated particle rendering ADDED on top of it to brighten it up.

Hope this helps.

Bobo
01-05-2010, 03:34 PM
hi,

I noticed the krakatoa render had its own 'grid-like' shader, as my attachment, how come?

Did I make something wrong?

Nope, no gridlike shader. What you are seeing are the segments of the teapot becoming visible as particles are placed on the surface. This happens when using Position Object in PFlow (which places particles on the FACES of the teapot which tend to be flat segments), or when using the PRT Volume object of Krakatoa where the geometry is converted to a level set and smoothing group info is lost - see here (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/render_geometry_volumes.php#Technical_Details)
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/images/krakatoa_geovolume_teapot4_voxels05_phong.png

Since the number of polygons does not affect much neither the speed of surface distribution in PFlow nor the speed of volumetric distribution in PRT Loader, simply increase the number of segments on the object (or use turbosmooth) and the resulting particle cloud will also get smoother.

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/images/krakatoa_geovolume_teapot32_voxels05_phong.png

dim1984kimo
01-05-2010, 03:38 PM
Thanks, bobo.

I've read your link and get the answer. My question is about the filter I didn't turn it on, I'd turn on the meshsmooth.

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/images/krakatoa_geovolume_tp_render_points.png

My question is this shader stand a line, it is too procedural.

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/images/krakatoa_geovolume_tp_render_voxels.png


This is what I want, and I find it in your link.

Thanks! I'm sorry about I didn't read that first. It's really important before I mention a question here.

Bobo
01-05-2010, 04:23 PM
Thanks, bobo.

I've read your link and get the answer. My question is about the filter I didn't turn it on, I'd turn on the meshsmooth.

My question is this shader stand a line, it is too procedural.

This is what I want, and I find it in your link.

Thanks! I'm sorry about I didn't read that first. It's really important before I mention a question here.

First of all, I don't expect everybody to have read all the documentation. In fact, I know that nobody reads manuals, ever (I know I don't ;) ). So don't feel bad about not having read about it before posting.

As for the lines seen in the first image, that is a side effect of the PRT Volume creating a single particle in the center of each voxel the levelset has created. In v1.5.1, we introduced the ability to create a user-defined number of randomly placed particles in each voxel, removing the grid look and producing a more diffused cloud. See this page for details (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/prt_volume_grid_and_random_particle_generation.php).

Alternatively, you can add a high-frequency Noise modifier to a PRT Volume or PRT Loader to displace the particle positions and break the grid look, or create a MagmaFlow that shifts the positions based on a DNoise operator's output. But if you are using the PRT Volume object (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/prt_volume.php#Random_In_Cube), it will solve the problem by just changing a radio button.

JohnnyRandom
01-05-2010, 06:29 PM
Simply resaving a PRT Loader's content multiple times without any modifiers does not change anything about the particles since partitioning requires some Random Seed to change aspects of the particle data (typically positions).


Exactly the point I missed, err... failed to mention :)

Yep, understood, the result is not the same, merely a nice trick to increase the density without running it all through Pflow. I don't know about your machine but I start getting up around 10+million and Pflow begins to really bog down. I did just notice, that without Deadline (I happen to be one of those that should read the WHOLE manual) that I can start multiple versions of max running the same scene and pass off single or ranges of partitions to each running version to utilize all of the processors in my machine (because of Pflows singularity threadedness), nice trick ;)


Thanks for the Deadline info, yes I didn't understand the Client/Slave structure. I wasn't sure if the Client was considered one of the two.

giangriver
01-07-2010, 10:17 AM
Since this thread looks like the place to talk about Krakatoa until it is released, I guess I could provide some more simple examples to give you an idea how it works and what it does.

As mentioned before, there are several shading modes, including Additive and Volumetric Density.

The following is a Teapot rendered as a particle cloud (each vertex is taken as a particle, the max. number of vertices of a teapot primitive with 64 segments is slighly more than 130K). I used the default custom particle color (white) and a density of 0.005 (which in the UI is expressed as two values - Density 5.0 and Density Exponent -2. This way, changing the Exponent (10^X) to -3 gives you quickly another zero after the decimal point, going up with positive exponents can increase the density quickly by orders of magnitude like 10, 100, 1000 and so on.
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Teapot_Vertices_Customcolor_Additive_5_minus2.jpg

This is the same rendering, but using the wireframe color of the mesh:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Teapot_Vertices_Wireframe_Additive_5_minus2.jpg

The following used the self-illumination channel of the material assigned to the teapot. I added a Cellular map to show that the channel is fully evaluated incl. any textures in it. Note that you have to check the "Use Color" for the Self.Illumination color to be used correctly.
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Teapot_Vertices_MatSelfIllum_CellularMap_Additive_5_minus2.jpg

Now we switch to Volumetric Density - same setup and density values, but still no lighting. Thus, the teapot is self-illuminated:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Teapot_Vertices_MatSelfIllum_CellularMap_Volumetric_NoLighting_5_minus2.jpg

Then I added an Omni Light and turned Lighting on in Krakatoa.
You can see the shadow casting, but also that light is passing through the particles (since only about 130K) and illuminating the backside (inside, bottom left) of the teapot:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Teapot_Vertices_MatSelfIllum_CellularMap_Volumetric_Lighting_5_minus2%20copy.jpg

Now it is time to use Particle Flow to emit particles from the surface of the Teapot. All the other settings are identical. To avoid heavy self-shadowing of the particles when placed on the same surface, I used an offset of -1 to give the "particle teapot" a bit of thickness. The flow uses only 1M particles.
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Teapot_PFlow_MatSelfIllum_CellularMap_Volumetric_5_minus2.jpg

Note that we can control the density globally by changing the Exponent to -3 while keeping everything else identical (including the particle count of one million). Now we can see through the volumetric cloud:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Teapot_PFlow_MatSelfIllum_CellularMap_Volumetric_5_minus3.jpg

The Volumetric Density mode only makes sense with lighting. Here is what you would get from 1M particles with volumetric density but no lighting and no material:
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Teapot_PFlow_Customcolor_Volumetric_NoLighting_5_minus2.jpg

Enabling the Lighting shades the particles as before. Note that version 1.0 of Krakatoa will also support normals per particle and will thus feature specular highlights, too.
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Teapot_PFlow_Customcolor_Volumetric_Lighting_5_minus2.jpg

Why would you want to render anything as a cloud of particles?
Here is a possible situation illustrating what you could do with it...
(Click Here For a Quicktime 7 movie (http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/kra_teapotvolumedissipate_tk100.MOV), 1.4 MB)
http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/KRA_TeapotVolumeDissipate.jpg

This example contains 100 frames of 1 million particles. Rendering time on single CPU Athlon64 2.1 GHz with just 1GB of RAM was 22 seconds per frame incl. PFlow calculations, lighting and shading with 4 passes of motion blur. (each pass shaded in approx. 3 seconds, so 12 seconds was shading, the rest was calculating the flow and the lighting).
Please share for me tutorial using krakatoa above
I only study krakatoa two day.
giang_river1983@yahoo.com.vn
Thank you very much

Bobo
01-07-2010, 03:56 PM
Please share for me tutorial using krakatoa above
I only study krakatoa two day.
Thank you very much

I don't have a tutorial, but I have posted the Max 9 Scene File before:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=5247635&postcount=398

Be sure to open Particle View and disable the Material Node, otherwise you will get mapped particles before and blue particles after the collision with the deflector.

I tested it in the current Krakatoa 1.5.1 build and it works otherwise, despite originating from an old Beta version prior to 1.0.

loran
01-08-2010, 10:55 AM
Hey Bobo,
I just wander if a Lite Version of Kratoa is planed? Krakatoa is very very powerfull but very very complex to use with tons of tabs settings to understand. By Lite version I mean only the renderer for millions of particle flow particles, with no option for object reconstuction and mapping in particles or things like that.
What I want the most is a point render with shadow ability.

Bobo
01-08-2010, 02:48 PM
Hey Bobo,
I just wander if a Lite Version of Kratoa is planed? Krakatoa is very very powerfull but very very complex to use with tons of tabs settings to understand. By Lite version I mean only the renderer for millions of particle flow particles, with no option for object reconstuction and mapping in particles or things like that.
What I want the most is a point render with shadow ability.

When we decided to make Krakatoa a commercial product, the plan was for a "simple point renderer". So much for that... ;)
No, there is no such plan because Krakatoa depends on its settings to produce what you need. What is possible to do though is dumb down the interface to just the main controls - the whole UI is written in MAXScript after all. But this is like asking for a Max UI that looks like MS Paint - it makes no sense because without the options, you cannot get good results.

The current UI allows you to HIDE all the tabs you don't need and leave just the Main Controls and a couple more that you use often. (you can save and load UI presets too).

But I am all against changing something that is powerful already into an iPhone app.

loran
01-08-2010, 03:27 PM
I just remember there was a thread about maxscript point render where you first spoke about the plugin your were developping . one of the first feature film with it was "Crushed" or something.
Yes the base idea turned to a very powerfull set of tool. I am just lazy to learn from scratch on all those menus. It like trying to switch from max to maya! their is so much setting it s like a stand alone software! ok maybe I will really try to understand the way it works.
Anyway it s an amazing tool you ve done Bobo :)

Glacierise
01-08-2010, 04:18 PM
You just need to find the big red geek button and click once :D Then at 4 AM it all suddenly goes into place :D

jigu
01-08-2010, 04:55 PM
Oh Krakatoa is actually very simple to use.

Just make lots of particles (use millions of) and light up scene and assign materials to particles and just render as we do normally with mentalray or with vray. (adjust light colors, shadow, material colors, opacity)

If you want to render with matte objects just select objects in scene that you want it to be matte objects, and open "Matte objects" rollout and click there magic button which will automatically add selected objects in matte objects.

Now render again. Very simple.

and all you need to do later is to use good density. General rule is high particle counts then lower the density. Or less particles use pretty high density.

It's way to simple.

JohnnyRandom
01-08-2010, 05:01 PM
I just remember there was a thread about maxscript point render where you first spoke about the plugin your were developping.

Loran you remember this? No shadows though :)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=5442519&postcount=1765

Although I would recommend Krakatoa over Poor Man's Krakatoa any day. As Bobo said a powerful app to provide beautiful results :) Although the interface my look daunting it is only because it is very well organized, 99% of you work goes through the Main Controls Rollout (with of course the exception of KCM's).

SachinPorwal
01-09-2010, 05:01 PM
hello everyone few day back i saw some particle test videos of krakatoa on youtube(video link attached) which are awesome and i want to know how can i create this type of effects using krakatoa,main problem with me is still i am not able to understand how can i use other renderers with karkatoa and how to use default materials of max with karkatoa so please guide me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c4WYzr30B0
http://www.youtube.com/user/MatthiasmVideos
http://www.youtube.com/user/MatthiasmVideos#p/u/2/NnTyvWdHDvE

noouch
01-10-2010, 12:21 PM
The Krakatoa documentation is very detailed, maybe you should take a look:

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/contents.php

Specifically the Matte Objects and Materials entries.

loran
01-11-2010, 11:14 AM
Loran you remember this? No shadows though :)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=5442519&postcount=1765



yes I do :)

Ok thank you for your replies on krakatoa easyness. I will try

giangriver
01-11-2010, 02:44 PM
Thank you BoBo about file 3ds max demo
This is test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwfEKfLvmco
But I want to ask one object have a lot of material things is, how is it add material in particle

Bobo
01-11-2010, 03:56 PM
Thank you BoBo about file 3ds max demo
This is test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwfEKfLvmco
But I want to ask one object have a lot of material things is, how is it add material in particle

If you are using PFlow directly, just add a Material Operator with a Standard Material.
*The Diffuse color (or map) will be used for the Color of the particles.
*The Self-Illumination color or map will be used for the Emission channel of the particles (if enabled).
*The Filter color or map will be used for the Absorption channel of the particles (if enabled).
*The Opacity color or map will be used to provide the particle Density.
*The Specular Level and Glossiness will be copied into the SpecularLevel and SpecularPower channels (if Phong Surface is selected and the channels are enabled).

If you are using a PRT Loader to render saved particles, you can assign a Standard or Krakatoa Material to it and use the above channels.

If your material contains 2D maps (like Bitmap Texture for example), you will also need correct UV coordinates, or you have to use Object space coordinates.
If your material contains 3D maps (like Cellular, Noise etc.), there will work directly.

SachinPorwal
01-12-2010, 02:48 PM
few hours back i was trying enviroment reflection property of krakatoa and for refrencing i used krakatoa documentation given on prime focus website.

i had followed all the steps given there but i was not able to get reflection as shown in docmentation,here i am telling what i had done....

firslty i took sphere after that simple pflow node to generate particles from sphere then loaded a hdri image(max's default hdri),then i turned on use enviroment reflection option in krakatoa but instead of reflection i am getting some part of color of hdri which i loaded so please tell me what i am missing in whole process

mattjakob
01-12-2010, 05:15 PM
Is it possible to render FumeFX emitter's particles in Krakatoa?
I tried a few scenes but I can only get to render a few hundreds... there's no such a thing as the particle amount in the FumeFX emitters... (I think).

Thanks.

SachinPorwal
01-12-2010, 05:21 PM
yes its possible but please elaborate more what you want to do

PsychoSilence
01-12-2010, 05:32 PM
Is it possible to render FumeFX emitter's particles in Krakatoa?
I tried a few scenes but I can only get to render a few hundreds... there's no such a thing as the particle amount in the FumeFX emitters... (I think).

Thanks.

the amount of particles derives from the grid size in fumefx. it will display every voxel as a particle. If you want to achieve a higher density you need a smaller fume grid(higher density) there for or use tricks like offestting 2 prts maybe amoung others.

definitely check this link:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/fumefx_direct_rendering.php

Bobo
01-12-2010, 05:33 PM
few hours back i was trying enviroment reflection property of krakatoa and for refrencing i used krakatoa documentation given on prime focus website.

i had followed all the steps given there but i was not able to get reflection as shown in docmentation,here i am telling what i had done....

firslty i took sphere after that simple pflow node to generate particles from sphere then loaded a hdri image(max's default hdri),then i turned on use enviroment reflection option in krakatoa but instead of reflection i am getting some part of color of hdri which i loaded so please tell me what i am missing in whole process

Reflections require correct Normals.

From the documentation:

Environment Reflection Maps (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/environment_reflection_maps.php)

Available in Krakatoa v1.5.0 and higher
Introduction





Krakatoa can use the Environment Map found in the 3ds Max Environment Dialog as an additional light pass by looking up texels of the map along the particle Normals (if a valid Normals channel is provided).



The Normal in Krakatoa is taken from the X axis of the particle's Transformation Matrix. By default, all particles are oriented uniformly with object space matching world space, so the X axis is along the world X and would give you some color along that vector.

So you will have to make sure your particles are aligned to the surface correctly - we even provide a Krakatoa Geometry Lookup operator (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/krakatoa_geometry_lookup.php) that does this in almost no time. Alternatively, you can use the Speed By Surface / Speed Follow trick known since Max 6 (http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/mxs5/pflow/pflow__Hairy_Teapot.htm) or Orbaz PFlow Toolbox Box #3 operators, but with the operator we have provided, it should not be necessary.

Once you have correct normals, the color of the environment along the normal vector will be shown on the particle as a form of "additional lighting".

mattjakob
01-12-2010, 05:33 PM
Well... how do I tune the amount of particles being rendered via Krakatoa if the particle emitter is a FumeFX emitter? I wouldnt want to change the smoke density parameters for example as that would influence the physics of the simulation.

Thanks

Bobo
01-12-2010, 05:41 PM
Is it possible to render FumeFX emitter's particles in Krakatoa?
I tried a few scenes but I can only get to render a few hundreds... there's no such a thing as the particle amount in the FumeFX emitters... (I think).

Thanks.

As Ansi explained, we currently create only one particle per voxel.
When we wrote this code, we had to solve a practical production problem on G.I.Joe - the FumFX sim we had to render required around 64 GB of RAM. So we decided to make Krakatoa render the FumeFX in voxel mode and needed one particle to transfer the data to our voxels.
When we added this as official feature in v1.5.0, our other tool, the PRT Volume, was also only able to create one particle per voxel.

Then in v1.5.1, we added the ability to create multiple particles per voxel in the PRT Volume, but did not do the same for the FumeFX rendering. It is currently on our Wishlist to provide the same multi-particle functionality to FumeFX rendering in the future, but I cannot tell you when exactly. Also, in the case of PRT Volume we have the mesh surface to check against to ensure correct curvature, while in the case of FumeFX we have no such guiding surface and producing multiple (grid or random) particles per voxel would not necessarily smooth out low resolution voxel grids, so it might require some more advanced techniques to produce good looking results.

The alternatives would be to create particles in PFlow and drive them with the FumeFX sim as we did in the early days before direct rendering was supported in Krakatoa, or save the FumeFX to PRT, load in a PRT Loader and partition it using the High Frequency Noise Modifier method described in our tutorials. This would give you a random number of particles per voxel with the current tools...

SachinPorwal
01-12-2010, 10:06 PM
thanks for such a great help @bobo

but here is another problem which i am getting during rendering test file given here

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/shadows_on_geometry_tutorial.php

i didnt got any problem while saving particles and loading them but when i try to render particles Max crashes immediately everytime.

i tried rendering other file using process given for generating particle shadows but same thing happens again and again.

after working some more time on krakatoa i come to know that max crashes only when turned on "save attenuation" option in krakatoa.

Bobo
01-12-2010, 10:55 PM
thanks for such a great help @bobo

but here is another problem which i am getting during rendering test file given here

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/shadows_on_geometry_tutorial.php

i didnt got any problem while saving particles and loading them but when i try to render particles Max crashes immediately everytime.

i tried rendering other file using process given for generating particle shadows but same thing happens again and again

Sorry, this is an actual bug that slipped into the Max 9/2008 and 2009 builds (it isn't really a bug as such but was caused by some compiler settings that were changed back and forth lately). It should not crash in Max 2010. If you are using 2010 and it is crashing when saving Attenuation Maps, please let me know.

The problem has been fixed in the Beta of 1.5.2 which customers with a valid support contract have already access to via our Beta forums. Once finished, v1.5.2 will be released for everyone to enjoy.
I am not sure whether v1.5.0 had the same issue, but since I wrote that tutorial with it, I assume it was ok. You might want to try installing 1.5.0 and doing the tutorial in it until we release the official fix.

SachinPorwal
01-13-2010, 11:37 AM
today i tried to get enviroment reflections again on object (Teapot) using "krakatoa geometry lookup operator" but i didnt got any reflections on particle surface..

here i am telling what i had done

Simply taken a teapot used basic operators to get particles emitted from teapot surface and for enviroment reflections choosed default max hdri after that taken a "krakatoa geometry lookup operator" and placed it in pflow event then choosed teapot in "krakatoa geometry lookup operator" and after that when i am rendering particles i am only getting a "grey color teapot" i think i am doing something with normals but i dont know how to correct it.

Someone please expand it step by step so that i can get basic reflections in just one go after that i will play with settings to get desired output.

Bobo
01-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Here are the steps for Environment Mapping:

*Created a Teapot
*Created a Standard PFlow
*Generated 200K particles on frame 0
*Replaced Position with Position Object, picked Teapot
*Replaced Speed with Krakatoa Geometry Lookup.
*Picked the Teapot in the KGL, unchecked Use for Position and Barycentric Coords AND CHECKED NORMALS, Put Into > TM.
*Deleted the Rotation and Shape operators
*Opened the Environment Dialog, added a Bitmap texture with some image file
*Dragged the Bitmap into Material Editor, switched from Screen to Spherical Environment
*Opened Krakatoa GUI, turned on >Use Environment Reflections

RESULT: Got reflections color on my particles.

SachinPorwal
01-13-2010, 06:34 PM
wooohoooooooooooo i got reflections

thanks bobo

meg
01-13-2010, 10:42 PM
hi there. could you suggest any setting to achieve a more "ink in the fluid" result like in the cctv animation (http://www.vimeo.com/6794856) because I could only get a more "sand particles" effect in my tryings.... :(
thx !!

Bobo
01-14-2010, 12:06 AM
hi there. could you suggest any setting to achieve a more "ink in the fluid" result like in the cctv animation (http://www.vimeo.com/6794856) because I could only get a more "sand particles" effect in my tryings.... :(
thx !!

I would suggest reading this topic:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/fighting_the_grainy_look.php

It tries to demonstrate how lower densities with higher particle counts change the look from "sandy" to "wispy".

Hope it will help...

meg
01-16-2010, 04:41 PM
thx a lot for this...really useful post!! and compliments to your great job on GIJoe !!!

dim1984kimo
01-19-2010, 11:53 AM
Dear Bobo,

I notice particle flow will just emit part of particles when I set it connect with fumefx.

Fumefx and pflow are run normally, but krakatoa just render a volume of it.

I set the creation of emit 0-100. (As my attachment.) But seens doesnt work.

here is a example:
http://vimeo.com/8837536

Thank you!

Bobo
01-19-2010, 01:54 PM
Dear Bobo,

I notice particle flow will just emit part of particles when I set it connect with fumefx.

Fumefx and pflow are run normally, but krakatoa just render a volume of it.

I set the creation of emit 0-100. (As my attachment.) But seens doesnt work.

here is a example:
http://vimeo.com/8837536

Thank you!

I fail to see the connection to Krakatoa. You are connecting PFlow to FumeFX. If there is a problem, it is in one of them, or in your setup. I cannot tell where, but if you can explain what it has to do with Krakatoa, then I can take a look...

Bandu
01-19-2010, 02:11 PM
Hey dim1984kimo

can you show us the fumebirth settings if you use one or maybe the whole PFlow tree with settings.
nobody can tell anything if we do not know what exactly you are doing, what settings you use.
I think your particles emit problem comes from the settings you use as in your video it does work, just not good enough :)

cheers,
Bandu

dim1984kimo
01-20-2010, 01:52 AM
Sorry, I set the upper particle number to limit the particles.......

My mistake.:sad:

Bobo
01-26-2010, 05:33 PM
I am NOT suggesting you should see this movie (I haven't), but if you happen to see The Rock in "The Tooth Fairy", all the fairy (amnesia) dust was done in Krakatoa.
(the CG wings were rendered in VRay, but some were practical).

http://www.primefocusworld.com/work/portfolio/tooth-fairy-twentieth-century-fox

Als
01-26-2010, 06:38 PM
Sorry to interupt, but are we there yet?

Thanks


Al

Bobo
01-26-2010, 08:04 PM
Sorry to interupt, but are we there yet?

Wait for a v2.0 announcement around Siggraph. We might or might not be there by then... but we would like to be.

dementol
01-26-2010, 08:31 PM
hey bobo, there's any way to reduce the wheight of the .prt files.. they are hard drive eaters!. if i delete some channels this may reduce it?

Bobo
01-26-2010, 08:54 PM
hey bobo, there's any way to reduce the wheight of the .prt files.. they are hard drive eaters!. if i delete some channels this may reduce it?

Are there any ways to reduce the size of EXR files without losing data? ;)

PRT files use the same concept as OpenEXR - it ZIPs the data stream on the fly, so the files are already a couple of times smaller than raw particle data. Saving only the channels you need is one way to reduce the size. The content of the data also plays a huge role - static particles have a Velocity channel of [0,0,0] which zips greatly, but the moment the particles start moving, the channel becomes different per particle and the file size goes up naturally.

It is just the nature of the beast. With images, you can probably live with reduced quality (JPG) by throwing away data. In PRTs, you want to keep the data as it is if you want the right results.

There are some things we are researching to allow for better workflows and potentially saving less particles and producing more at render time, but no procedural approach can compare qualitatively to explicitly provided data.

Since Disk Space is cheap compared to Time in real-world production, buying more TB of server space is considered a better alternative than having artists spend days waiting for PFlows to recalculate. Thus we prefer to dump huge amounts of data to disk once and massage it in post to get the right results. In Avatar, there was a "false color image" of the Flux Vortex fields around the Tree Of Souls seen on one of the 3D screens which was made using several million particles reinstanced and heavily modified via Path Deforms and other modifiers using a large number of PRT Loaders. So one possible approach to reducing storage usage is to find ways to recycle existing particle sequences by loading them multiple times and deforming them with modifiers or modifying their appearance using KCMs.

If you have specific ideas and technical solutions, please let us know.

grury
02-05-2010, 09:20 AM
Hi guys,

Been out of touch with Krakatoa for a few months. Today I was opening a old file that I was testing a few months ago, and the very handy Krakatoa GeoVolume mod, seems to have vanished.
I assume I was working with the Beta version at the time.
It was a very neat mod, cos I could just select a bunch of objects and apply the mod to them all.

Was there a reason for discontinuing it. Sorry if this already been covered in the forum.

MatthiasM
02-05-2010, 09:47 AM
go to the Geometry tab => Krakatoa => PRT Volume i think thats what you are looking for

grury
02-05-2010, 10:50 AM
Yeah, it seems to do the same, as the modifire, but can only select one object at the time.

Chad Capeland
02-05-2010, 08:54 PM
Select all the objects you want to fill, then click the Geo button on the Krakatoa toolbar.

- Chad

Bobo
02-06-2010, 01:32 AM
Was there a reason for discontinuing it.

We wanted to show the particles in the viewport and be able to run KCMs and Deformation modifier on top of the PRT Volume. This was tricky to impossible with a modifier which worked at render time only.

As Chad said, customize your Krakatoa toolbar and use the dedicated macro script to create multiple PRT Volumes from multiple geometry objects.

grury
02-06-2010, 11:09 AM
Thanks guys.

grury
02-08-2010, 08:29 AM
I did try the Tollbar button, but it didnt quite help as it creates one PRTVolume per object.
On my old file I had over 3000 spheres that I applied the GeoVolume modifire, instancing the whole thing, so any changes were updated in all of the objects.

I just thought it was a great feature to have, and would be fantastic if you could add it as an alternative to the PRTVolume.

Cheers

Chad Capeland
02-08-2010, 06:46 PM
There's a reason for that, too. This way, the levelset for the volume is created in the bounding box of each sphere. This can save a lot of memory.

If you really wanted them to all be handled together (like if they overlapped a lot anyway), you could always just attach them together into one object.

- Chad

Bobo
02-08-2010, 07:56 PM
I did try the Tollbar button, but it didnt quite help as it creates one PRTVolume per object.
On my old file I had over 3000 spheres that I applied the GeoVolume modifire, instancing the whole thing, so any changes were updated in all of the objects.

I just thought it was a great feature to have, and would be fantastic if you could add it as an alternative to the PRTVolume.

Cheers

Also note that there are other ways to get many spheres to do what you want.
First of all, you can use a Particle Flow or TP with Sphere shapes. In the former case, you can create a Mesher and make a PRT Volume out of it. In the latter, you can pick the TP system as PRT Volume source directly.

If you have a pre-keyframed spheres animation using some other method (like Reactor or PhysX simulation), you could dump the positions, velocities and radii/scales of all spheres to a PRT file using the MAXScript Particle Stream interface, then load the resulting PRT sequence in a PFlow with Sphere shapes and use the Mesher/PRT Volume method as described above.

In fact, I wrote myself a Blob Mesh modeler by using a large amount of Sphere Atmospheric Gizmos that would get exported to a PRT file by just hitting a shortcut (using a simple MacroScript). The resulting PRT was then meshed by our inhouse PRT Mesher so I could just move some Spheres around, hit a button and get an isosurface out of them on the fly...

And here is the result:

grury
02-08-2010, 10:05 PM
Thanks again guys.

Sorry, but I probably didnt quite explain myself properly. I actually want each of the spheres to be turned into a buch of particles. See the original setup on the post bellow:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=758476

The spheres are animated, simulated in Realflow.
I could use the Geo button, but if I later want to adjust the settings would have to delete them all and apply it all over again, as they are not instanced.

Cheers

JohnnyRandom
02-08-2010, 10:53 PM
In fact, I wrote myself a Blob Mesh modeler by using a large amount of Sphere Atmospheric Gizmos that would get exported to a PRT file by just hitting a shortcut (using a simple MacroScript). The resulting PRT was then meshed by our inhouse PRT Mesher so I could just move some Spheres around, hit a button and get an isosurface out of them on the fly...

And here is the result:

WTF! that looks sweet :lightbulb:cool:

Bobo
02-08-2010, 11:09 PM
Thanks again guys.

Sorry, but I probably didnt quite explain myself properly. I actually want each of the spheres to be turned into a buch of particles. See the original setup on the post bellow:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=758476

The spheres are animated, simulated in Realflow.
I could use the Geo button, but if I later want to adjust the settings would have to delete them all and apply it all over again, as they are not instanced.

Cheers

No , you explained it well. It is possible that I didn't explain myself well.
I just proposed that you dump the info about position, rotation, scale and possibly the Radius of the spheres to PRT via MAXScript, load that in PFlow and recreate the SAME animation using particles driven by the Spheres.

Alternatively, you could write a Script Operator to read the data from the scene objects and create one particle per object, using the corresponding geometry as shape, then update the positions of the particles using the positions of the spheres.

This will give you a single PFlow Mesh representing all spheres with their motion and geometry, and you need a single PRT Volume to turn the whole system into a cloud of particles, like seen in this example (which used Thinking Particles though):

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/render_geometry_volumes.php#Thinking_Particles_As_PRT_Volumes

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/images/krakatoa_geovolume_tp_render_voxels.png

grury
02-09-2010, 08:09 AM
Oh I get you :)

Thanks again.

BTW those clouds looks awesome.

rhys24
02-15-2010, 02:14 PM
So I've started playing with Krakatoa for rendering pflow particles. I've got an object going over water and have create water spray. I'm using about a 1m particles. What I've noticed is that the pf source keeps updating itself making it very slow as its only using 1 cpu core, is this correct or can it be speed up?

Bobo
02-15-2010, 05:48 PM
So I've started playing with Krakatoa for rendering pflow particles. I've got an object going over water and have create water spray. I'm using about a 1m particles. What I've noticed is that the pf source keeps updating itself making it very slow as its only using 1 cpu core, is this correct or can it be speed up?

Reading the documentation and doing the introductory tutorial might have answered that question, but here it goes:

This is a PFlow limitation.
*If you are constantly tweaking the look of the PFlow, you have no alternative - it will be slow.
*If you are rerendering the same frame of PFlow without making changes to the flow itself, PFlow should cache the particles and render instantaneously.
*If you are happy with the look of the PFlow and want to tweak lighting, shading etc, you can save the flow to a PRT sequence and avoid the recalculating.
*If you are happy with the look but want more particles, you could partition the flow to create multiple sequences that accumulate to more than 1 million.

Using the Output Scaling feature of the >Iterative option in the Main Controls rollout, you could also render a lower resolution image with a fraction of the particle count to get a much faster preview while tweaking. See this page for details (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/iterative_mode_scale_output.php).

Hope this helps.

xtremist999
02-16-2010, 06:18 AM
Hi there,

I've recently started digging into Krakatoa and I'm experiencing a little difficulty.

I have a particle emitter that's Path constrained onto a spline and I am trying to save a sequence of Krakatoa .prt files of that animation. I've done so and it saves the particles, but not its animation along the spline. Is there any way that I can do this?

Thanks a lot

Bobo
02-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Hi there,

I've recently started digging into Krakatoa and I'm experiencing a little difficulty.

I have a particle emitter that's Path constrained onto a spline and I am trying to save a sequence of Krakatoa .prt files of that animation. I've done so and it saves the particles, but not its animation along the spline. Is there any way that I can do this?

Thanks a lot

Can you provide some more info?
What kind of Emitter (legacy particles or PFlow), what is the end result and how is it different from the expected result? Screenshots, animation or a scene file are welcome.

Krakatoa is supposed to save the particles in world space exactly as calculated by Max. Of course, moving an emitter along a path does not automatically move the particles along the path (in the case of the legacy particles like SuperSpray, there is a space warp for that, for PFlow it is doable via scripting).

Once you have saved the PRT sequence, do the particles loaded by the PRT Loader when set to 100% in the viewport match the positions of the particles of the source system? (normally they should - show us a screenshot if they don't align). You can also deform particles loaded by a PRT Loader using a Path Deform to create a particle cloud following a path after the saving which might be easier and would be a lot more flexible.

xtremist999
02-16-2010, 10:43 PM
Can you provide some more info?
What kind of Emitter (legacy particles or PFlow), what is the end result and how is it different from the expected result? Screenshots, animation or a scene file are welcome.

Krakatoa is supposed to save the particles in world space exactly as calculated by Max. Of course, moving an emitter along a path does not automatically move the particles along the path (in the case of the legacy particles like SuperSpray, there is a space warp for that, for PFlow it is doable via scripting).

Once you have saved the PRT sequence, do the particles loaded by the PRT Loader when set to 100% in the viewport match the positions of the particles of the source system? (normally they should - show us a screenshot if they don't align). You can also deform particles loaded by a PRT Loader using a Path Deform to create a particle cloud following a path after the saving which might be easier and would be a lot more flexible.

Ohh... I worked out the problem was that I had 'Load First N Particle' selected rather than 'Load Every Nth Particle' in the Viewport rollout. So it looked like it wasn't moving.. Silly me!

Yes I also tried your suggestion. It is more flexible and easier to manage too. Thanks for that.

One more question: I heard that 'Particle Age' maps can't be applied to Krakatoa Particles. Is there a workaround to get particles to change color with age?

Thanks again!

Bobo
02-16-2010, 10:50 PM
One more question: I heard that 'Particle Age' maps can't be applied to Krakatoa Particles. Is there a workaround to get particles to change color with age?

Correct.

The Particle Age map has an artificial and very low limit to the number of particles it can affect, so we decided not to support it early on.

You can control the color of the particles with ANYTHING using MagmaFlow, but Color By Age is one of the most common requests next to Density By Age and Speed By Color.
See this tutorial for some ideas that go way beyond what the Particle Age map does:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php


(http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php#Color_Gradient_By_Age)

xtremist999
02-18-2010, 01:42 AM
Correct.

The Particle Age map has an artificial and very low limit to the number of particles it can affect, so we decided not to support it early on.

You can control the color of the particles with ANYTHING using MagmaFlow, but Color By Age is one of the most common requests next to Density By Age and Speed By Color.
See this tutorial for some ideas that go way beyond what the Particle Age map does:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php


(http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php#Color_Gradient_By_Age)

Thanks for that, it was exactly what I was looking for and it works really well. Looks quite versatile too in what it can do.

Am I right in thinking that the KCM can't be applied to Particle Flow emitters but instead my particles must be saved out first and reloaded via the PRT Loader before I can apply the KCM?

It's just that waiting for particles to save is quite time consuming and I'm hoping there is a way to apply these settings without needing to always re-save particles after making changes to the particle movement.

Thanks again!

Bobo
02-18-2010, 04:59 AM
Am I right in thinking that the KCM can't be applied to Particle Flow emitters but instead my particles must be saved out first and reloaded via the PRT Loader before I can apply the KCM?


There is a way to apply KCMs to ANY particles being rendered regardless of their source.
We call these Global Channel Override Sets.
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/global_render_values.php

In short, a special helper object is created in the scene when you make such a set, and you can add any number of KCMs on top of it. You can also have any number of these helpers (sets), but only one or none active at a time.

When Krakatoa loads the particles, it will run the KCMs found in the active (highlighted) set in WORLD space (so if you are using the Position channel in some way, you have to keep that in mind as KCMs on PRT Loaders operate in LOCAL OBJECT space on the stack). So these KCMs can be applied to particles coming from PFlows, Thinking Particles, Geometry Vertices, Legacy Particles and FumeFX sims in addition to PRT Volumes and PRT Loaders.

Obviously, in order to do the Age coloring, the particles must have Age and LifeSpan channels, so that wouldn't work on vertices, but can work on PFlows without intermediate saving.

The other limitation of these global override KCMs is that they cannot be seen in the viewports, only in the final rendering. Otherwise they function like local KCMs and you can stack them and pass data between them, read and write channels data and so on.

Hope this helps.

xtremist999
02-19-2010, 12:03 AM
There is a way to apply KCMs to ANY particles being rendered regardless of their source.
We call these Global Channel Override Sets.
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/global_render_values.php

In short, a special helper object is created in the scene when you make such a set, and you can add any number of KCMs on top of it. You can also have any number of these helpers (sets), but only one or none active at a time.



Thanks I'm had a try with working from the help file right now. I'm using the same file as the Magmaflow tutorial and I've created a Global Channel Overide set with the same KCM settings (Density & TextureCoord) copied across into the set however they don't seem to affect the appearance of the particles in either PFlow or PRT Loader.

I then tried applying a basic Color KCM and that works, however no matter what I try I'm still stumped about the others settings.

I've attached a Max 2010 file with my settings if it helps.

Thanks again!

Bobo
02-19-2010, 04:56 AM
Here is what you were missing:

1. The PFlow needs Mapping Channel 1 to be pre-initialized to work correctly. We set that channel (TextureCoord) with the Global Override afterwards.
2. The Color KCM on the Global Override set should be set to Gradient or Gradient Ramp to show a variable color based on the Mapping Channel 1 value. I used Gradient Ramp with 3 colors. You can flip the direction by using U Tiling of -1.
3. To avoid wrapping around of the end colors, you should clamp the TextureCoord U value between 0.0 and 0.99 instead of allowing it to go up to 1.0.
4. Krakatoa Material works only on PRT Loaders and PRT Volume objects, not on PFlows. So assigning one does nothing (internally it runs a hard-coded KCM to set the channels, so it needs Krakatoa channels to start with!)

Here is the updated scene:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Krakatoa_Scene_07_Bobo.zip

Go to frame 60 and render - the Density will fall off before the particles die, and the color will go from blue through green to red over the life of the particles.

Hope this helps.

xtremist999
02-22-2010, 06:18 AM
Here is what you were missing:

1. The PFlow needs Mapping Channel 1 to be pre-initialized to work correctly. We set that channel (TextureCoord) with the Global Override afterwards.
2. The Color KCM on the Global Override set should be set to Gradient or Gradient Ramp to show a variable color based on the Mapping Channel 1 value. I used Gradient Ramp with 3 colors. You can flip the direction by using U Tiling of -1.
3. To avoid wrapping around of the end colors, you should clamp the TextureCoord U value between 0.0 and 0.99 instead of allowing it to go up to 1.0.
4. Krakatoa Material works only on PRT Loaders and PRT Volume objects, not on PFlows. So assigning one does nothing (internally it runs a hard-coded KCM to set the channels, so it needs Krakatoa channels to start with!)

Here is the updated scene:

http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/Krakatoa_Scene_07_Bobo.zip

Go to frame 60 and render - the Density will fall off before the particles die, and the color will go from blue through green to red over the life of the particles.

Hope this helps.

Hi Bobo,

Unfortunately the updated scene file settings don't seem to work either. :S

When I click the Render button, an error window pops up saying 'Unable to get channel "TextureCoord". Actually this error repeated popped up in tests that I was during last week. :/

I'm sure I've followed the info in the help files correctly, so its starting to do my head in a little bit!

Thanks again, really appreciate the help

Bobo
02-22-2010, 02:28 PM
Hi Bobo,

Unfortunately the updated scene file settings don't seem to work either. :S

When I click the Render button, an error window pops up saying 'Unable to get channel "TextureCoord". Actually this error repeated popped up in tests that I was during last week. :/



Did you enable the Mapping operator in the PFlow? (somehow I got the scene saved with it off). When I enable it, it stops complaining. See the first point in my previous post.

I updated the ZIP, try it again.

Strob
02-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Hi,

I just noticed we can use krakatoa just for caching pFlow to disk and it works great! what would max users be without you BOBO!!! Thank you so much for you hard work and your presence on this forum. I read you a lot!

I just have a little thing I can't seem to be able to do. I want my particles to start fading on 16 frames just after a collision. I was able to do it by using the mapping operator and animating uv or color vertex. It is working when I render with SCANLINE my cached pflow in PRT files on a krakatoa PRT birth flow. But when I want to render with vray, it does not work...

It seems vray can't read vertex color material and can't neither read uv on particles. So with vray it did not work on the original pflow neither. What is working with vray is only when with the original pflow I create a multi sub object with 16 materials (one for each frame) and I animate the id in a material dynamic operator inside the post collision event. BUT this does not work in the krakatoa flow... It seems the animated material ID is not present in the krakatoa PRT update...

I was also able to fade krakatoa prt flow by age with vray by using my material dynamic with animated ID inside the krakatoa prt flow, but it fades only by global age and I would need it to fade only by the original post collision event.

Is there a way I could make vray see the material Id or vertex color or uv or anything else in prt in order to fade particles? Maybe by KCM? Or I would need a kind of reverse Age reading in the Krakatoa file ID test to send the particle who are 16 frames before dying in another event.

Bobo
02-22-2010, 07:01 PM
I just have a little thing I can't seem to be able to do. I want my particles to start fading on 16 frames just after a collision. I was able to do it by using the mapping operator and animating uv or color vertex. It is working when I render with SCANLINE my cached pflow in PRT files on a krakatoa PRT birth flow. But when I want to render with vray, it does not work...


I was quite surprised as I had not tried this before.
As usual, when something does not work right in PFlow or VRay, I created a Mesher compound and guess what? That works!

My test scene was simple:

*Created a default PFlow
*Added a Delete By Age 30
*Added a Mapping operator animated from 1,1,1 to 0,0,0, Sync By Age, Vertex Color
*Added a Material Dynamic with a Standard Material and Vertex Color in Opacity Map slot

Rendering this in Scanline produced fading off particles.
Rendering in VRay produced no particles at all (it used 0,0,0 for Opacity).

*I created a Mesher from the PFlow and assigned the same material to it

Rendering in VRay showed the Mesher with the correct fading off opacity.

Not sure if this helps in more complex cases, but it seems to be a possible solution.

Strob
02-22-2010, 07:41 PM
Thanks a lot for that tip.

I will try it. I'm a bit afraid it will be too heavy though. Unless I can create a mesher out of the krakatoa flow and still get it working with vray.

Anyway if it doesn't work I can still buy box 3 to cache my particles. I am testing it right now and it works great cause I can skip the shape operator that is slowing down my setup and vray obviously works great that way too. My initial problem was that the standard ram caching was too limited in memory, my max scene was around 5Gb and the last frames were not even cached.

JohnnyRandom
02-22-2010, 11:14 PM
Cool spot w/ Krakatoa:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4VstrHQDMw

:)

EricTT
02-23-2010, 10:23 AM
a question ,how to render particle with krakatoa like this :the particle's color with a gradient ramp color from birth to death

Bobo
02-23-2010, 01:43 PM
a question ,how to render particle with krakatoa like this :the particle's color with a gradient ramp color from birth to death

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=6366663&postcount=987

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/magmaflow_fading_off_particle_density_by_age.php

AdrianWilliams
02-24-2010, 10:51 AM
Awesome stuff bobo, would love to see more of the cloud stuff

rhys24
02-26-2010, 02:45 PM
Did you enable the Mapping operator in the PFlow? (somehow I got the scene saved with it off). When I enable it, it stops complaining. See the first point in my previous post.

I updated the ZIP, try it again.

Hi Bobo,

Tried the zip file, as trying to do the same thing with a simulation bought in from realflow and trying to change the color based on vorticity, but nothing seems to change in the file you gave.

Bobo
02-26-2010, 11:24 PM
Hi Bobo,

Tried the zip file, as trying to do the same thing with a simulation bought in from realflow and trying to change the color based on vorticity, but nothing seems to change in the file you gave.

So if you open the file I uploaded and render a frame, you see no colors?
Before there was an error. What do you see now?
(Don't try to involve RealFlow particles before you have figured out the pure PFlow setup).

It works for me on my home machine, anybody else having a problem loading and rendering that sample file?

I just downloaded it and rendered on the office workstation too and it also worked, but I am using the latest internal build which might have fixed some errors. Will try to install 1.5.1 and try again...

JohnnyRandom
02-27-2010, 12:23 AM
Guess you guys fixed it, it works for me too.

rhys24
02-27-2010, 11:17 AM
It just red for me, and stays red.