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LD50
11-27-2008, 09:17 AM
Nice one man, as allready said work on the turbulence a bit then its pure rock´n´roll :)
Reminds me a bit of the X-Men Night Crawler thing. I like the overall mood of the scene, the Asian background and the Ink fits very well. Im anxious to see an update of it.

greetz

mxrzone
11-27-2008, 06:50 PM
Thanks guys for advice

some more updating (Ink bird)
1. low turbulence
2. older particles disapper too early

but!, some more problem, :eek:
"abruptly instead of slowly dissipating and losing density over a longer period of time"
I don't even know the reason why dissipating particle

I used 3ds max9(64bit) and Krakatoa+Fumefx+Particle Flow and os Vista(64bit / 8G ram)
http://blog.dnabox.com/q.jpg

Bobo
11-27-2008, 09:08 PM
Thanks guys for advice

some more updating (Ink bird)
1. low turbulence
2. older particles disapper too early

but!, some more problem, :eek:
"abruptly instead of slowly dissipating and losing density over a longer period of time"
I don't even know the reason why dissipating particle


So the Delete is set to 80 frames +/- 30, which means a particle will live between 50 and 110 frames. Sounds reasonable. You could try to play with that variation and see if it changes anything. The only other operator that could theoretically delete particles is the FumeFX Follow which has an option to kill particles if they leave the sim bounds. Could that be involved?

A couple of additional hints:
*PFlow allows you to multi-select operators by holding down SHIFT or Ctrl. When you do this, all operators' rollouts will appear in the Parameters pane, so you don't need multiple screenshots ;)
*Krakatoa does NOT need any geometry to render PFlow particles. So the Shape Operator set to Vertex is not really needed for Krakatoa to see and render the particles. If it is there for another reason, then great, but you can save a bit of memory by not assigning any Shape to your particles when rendering PFlow in Krakatoa.

mxrzone
11-28-2008, 12:02 AM
So the Delete is set to 80 frames +/- 30, which means a particle will live between 50 and 110 frames. Sounds reasonable. You could try to play with that variation and see if it changes anything. The only other operator that could theoretically delete particles is the FumeFX Follow which has an option to kill particles if they leave the sim bounds. Could that be involved?

A couple of additional hints:
*PFlow allows you to multi-select operators by holding down SHIFT or Ctrl. When you do this, all operators' rollouts will appear in the Parameters pane, so you don't need multiple screenshots ;)
*Krakatoa does NOT need any geometry to render PFlow particles. So the Shape Operator set to Vertex is not really needed for Krakatoa to see and render the particles. If it is there for another reason, then great, but you can save a bit of memory by not assigning any Shape to your particles when rendering PFlow in Krakatoa.

thanks Bobo, very useful additional hints!
May I ask a question? "dissipating particle" mean...
FumeFX Birth 01 => Rate 2,500,000 // Bird(body) dissipating particle starts with the 250frame
FumeFX Birth 01 => Rate 6,000,000 // Bird(body) dissipating particle starts with the 100frame
FumeFX Birth 01 => Rate 10,000,000 // Bird(body) i don't see bird to the stage, no more particle creation
i want to flying bird from start(1frame) to finish(250frame)
at present,start(1frame) to finish(180frame)

grury
11-28-2008, 08:44 AM
A couple of additional hints:
*PFlow allows you to multi-select operators by holding down SHIFT or Ctrl. When you do this, all operators' rollouts will appear in the Parameters pane, so you don't need multiple screenshots ;)


One learns something new everyday..priceless.

@mxrzone (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=65217): Couldnt you perhaps send particles (dissipation) into another Event and enherit the motion from your initial Fumefx creation event. This way u would have a lot more control on how your particles would move/dissipate.

JohnnyRandom
01-13-2009, 10:30 PM
Cool ad, Sand by Krakatoa :)

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/technique/casestudies/10330.html

Glacierise
01-14-2009, 07:17 AM
Cool stuff :)

Bobo
01-17-2009, 07:45 AM
Chad Capeland from Anatomical Travelogue (http://www.anatomicaltravel.com) posted this interesting "piece of mind" to their research blog:

http://www.anatomicaltravel.com/research/2008/12/fun-with-voxels-squishy-brain/

Glacierise
01-17-2009, 07:54 AM
How is that thing made? Krakatoa, really?!

JohnnyRandom
01-17-2009, 10:38 PM
Dude, Chad does some crazy stuff :) I couldn't get the "squishy brain" to play in firefox, it only worked in IE for me...strange

The Squishy Brain is kinda freaky:D

[/url] [url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000698/"]Dr. Frederick Frankenstein (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000698/): [to Igor] Now that brain that you gave me. Was it Hans Delbruck's?
Igor (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001204/): [pause, then] No.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000698/): Ah! Very good. Would you mind telling me whose brain I DID put in?
Igor (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001204/): Then you won't be angry?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000698/): I will NOT be angry.
Igor (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001204/): Abby Someone.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000698/): [pause, then] Abby Someone. Abby who?
Igor (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001204/): Abby Normal.

LOL :)

grury
01-23-2009, 08:32 AM
EDIT: By changing G/F Life on the RealFlow loader (Particle Size tab) from the default 20, to a higher number, it worked fine...

I'm having problems rendering/saving RealFlow particles using Krakatoa.
I have several passes of particles working just fine, but with a specific one it gets to a certain frame and Krakatoa only renders or saves a fraction of the particles.
Bellow is a screenshot of the viewport and the render result.

http://www.grury.me.uk/krakatoa.jpg

The only way I managed to load this sequence is via RealFlow Particle loader, but although it does load the whole sequence on the viewport, on frame 152 it drops a huge chunk of particles, during rendering, not in the viewport. If I try using Krakatoa PRT loader or Particle Flow, no particles get loaded, unless I tick Load Single Frame Only.

Anyone experienced anything like this before??
Thanks

Carlos

Edit: If I render using Scanline or Mentalray it renders just fine

friedpixels
01-26-2009, 05:50 PM
Now this is a rather interesting coincidence, or is it?

As you probably remember from the beginning of this thread, the first version of what we now call Krakatoa was written back in 2004 to render the billions of particles for a movie nobody really saw called Stay (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371257/).

Guess the name of its director (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0286975/)!

Thanks for the mention -- we have been quite mum on the title sequence until lately due to the politics of being able to talk about / show work from the movie until a certain time period! I'm sure all of you understand that! Thanks again bobo for the help during our initial setting up of stuff on our end here to work with krakatoa/deadline. Also without Jigu I would have been lost, you were very much of help and it was a fantastic collaboration!

During our research for QoS we did bump into krakatoa and realize the connection between Marc / Stay and Krakatoa. We thought it was a good tribute to Doc Bailey and his amazing work!

Sorry we've been quiet but I promise some good behind the scenes and info is about to pour out! Cheers!

Erka2
02-04-2009, 05:10 PM
I'm having some problems trying to render hundreds of instanced objects as matte for particles pass. I'm getting "bad allocation error". Is krakatoa capable of rendering of big number of instanced objects as matte?
Btw, even scanline renders same amount of objects, but it's pretty big.

Bobo
02-04-2009, 05:16 PM
I'm having some problems trying to render hundreds of instanced objects as matte for particles pass. I'm getting "bad allocation error". Is krakatoa capable of rendering of big number of instanced objects as matte?
Btw, even scanline renders same amount of objects, but it's pretty big.

Need some more info -
*what Max version?
*32 or 64 bit?
*How much RAM?
*How many polygons in the matte objects?
*How many particles?

Krakatoa uses a kd-tree like most raytracers for the matte objects, there might be something going wrong with memory allocation. If you remove half of the matte objects from the selection set and render, does it still crash?

EDIT:

I just loaded 50M particles occluded by 6.5 million faces using 25 instanced teapots with 64 segments each into Max 2008 64 bit.
Memory usage for the particles was slightly less than a GB, the matte objects took around 700MB.

Here are the render stats from the Log:

PRG: Rendering frame 0
STS: Section "Retrieving Particles":
STS: Total 00h 00m 20.484s Called 1 times Avg 00h 00m 20.484s
PRG: Rendering 50000000 particles.
STS: Section "Render:Matte Objects":
STS: Total 00h 01m 44.171s Called 1 times Avg 00h 01m 44.171s
STS: Section "Render:Sorting Particles":
STS: Total 00h 00m 07.422s Called 1 times Avg 00h 00m 07.422s
STS: Section "Render:Drawing Particles":
STS: Total 00h 00m 32.860s Called 1 times Avg 00h 00m 32.860s
PRG: Finished rendering frame: 0

I would expect the same setup to crash in 32 bit with a memory error. YMMV.

Erka2
02-04-2009, 05:51 PM
It's 3ds max 2008, 32 bit, 3Gb Ram. Actually polycount was pretty low (optimized objects). I have tried to recreate this case on empty scene with big number of instanced spheres - and it worked like it should. After some changes to pflow and 3ds max restart - now everything works fine. So it is some kind of another problem (but it was pretty repeatable before pflow rework - as soon as I was adding matte sets - getting that error).

Bobo
02-04-2009, 06:03 PM
It's 3ds max 2008, 32 bit, 3Gb Ram. Actually polycount was pretty low (optimized objects). I have tried to recreate this case on empty scene with big number of instanced spheres - and it worked like it should. After some changes to pflow and 3ds max restart - now everything works fine. So it is some kind of another problem (but it was pretty repeatable before pflow rework - as soon as I was adding matte sets - getting that error).

Keep in mind that Krakatoa, Max and PFlow have to share (and fight for) memory in 32 bit address space. The usual approach (if you have enough HDD space) would be to dump the particles to PRT sequence first, then render with Matte objects with the PFlow off.
This would ensure that Krakatoa does not have to fight with PFlow for memory resources.

As with most parts of Max 32 bit, it is not about how much memory you have, but how fragmented it is. Sometimes a memory operation could fail because the specific chunk size cannot be allocated due to fragmentation. This problem does not exist in 64 bit due to the enormous available memory address space, even if the physical memory is not that much.

In general, Krakatoa might cause paging if it runs out of RAM in 64 bit, but would never crash , just get a lot slower. That's why we recommend 64 bit for serious Krakatoa work. (oh, and it is twice as fast, too).

In cases like yours, you should try restarting Max, caching particles out and tweaking the flow to use less memory. Krakatoa generally uses a lot less memory than the PFlow that created the particles. So dumping to PRTs and loading the cached version can reduce the memory requirements a lot (depending on what channels are required by Krakatoa features, a particle can use from 14 to 40 bytes.)
Since the Matte Objects are evaluated after the loading of the particles in memory, it is possible that with the PFlow and Krakatoa Channels already there, there was no room left for the kd-tree...

Als
02-04-2009, 06:11 PM
Hi,
do I need max to test krakatoa, or there is a way to (just) use krakatoa and realflow instead?

Thanks


Als

Erka2
02-04-2009, 06:12 PM
In cases like yours, you should try restarting Max, caching particles out and tweaking the flow to use less memory. Krakatoa generally uses a lot less memory than the PFlow that created the particles. So dumping to PRTs and loading the cached version can reduce the memory requirements a lot (depending on what channels are required by Krakatoa features, a particle can use from 14 to 40 bytes.)
Since the Matte Objects are evaluated after the loading of the particles in memory, it is possible that with the PFlow and Krakatoa Channels already there, there was no room left for the kd-tree...
Thank you, Bobo. I'm trying to use caching as much as I can before we'll have a chance to move to 64 bit systems. I will use it for sure on same scene if I'll have such problems in future.
Thanks again!

Bobo
02-04-2009, 06:15 PM
Hi,
do I need max to test krakatoa, or there is a way to (just) use krakatoa and realflow instead?


Yep, Krakatoa is currently available as a plugin renderer for Max 9, 2008 and 2009, 32 and 64 bit. You can theoretically download the 30 days demo of 3ds Max from the Autodesk site, get the Evaluation version of Krakatoa from the Frantic Films site and play with them for a month to see if they are worth having...

Als
02-04-2009, 09:45 PM
Yep, Krakatoa is currently available as a plugin renderer for Max 9, 2008 and 2009, 32 and 64 bit. You can theoretically download the 30 days demo of 3ds Max from the Autodesk site, get the Evaluation version of Krakatoa from the Frantic Films site and play with them for a month to see if they are worth having...

Thanks a lot, sound like a great idea...


Als

Bobo
02-04-2009, 11:18 PM
Thank you, Bobo. I'm trying to use caching as much as I can before we'll have a chance to move to 64 bit systems. I will use it for sure on same scene if I'll have such problems in future.
Thanks again!

I loaded my test scene in Max 2008 32 bit using Krakatoa 1.1.2.32992 and could repro the crash you reported when it hits the Matte Objects.
I deleted all teapots but one (262,144 faces) and no crash. I cloned it once - no crash. Tried 3 teapots - still ok. 6, 9, 15 - still working... It even worked with 25 clones. It looks like slowly increasing the memory consumption of matte objects within the session would make the crash go away. I opened the original scene within the same session and it crashed again... Memory management is a funny thing!

I decided to launch the same Krakatoa build in Max 2008 64 bit to cover all cases. As I hoped, no crash. The timing was as follows:

PRG: Rendering frame 0
STS: Section "Retrieving Particles":
STS: Total 00h 00m 22.156s Called 1 times Avg 00h 00m 22.156s
PRG: Rendering 50000000 particles.
STS: Section "Render:Matte Objects":
STS: Total 00h 02m 06.234s Called 1 times Avg 00h 02m 06.236s
STS: Section "Render:Sorting Particles":
STS: Total 00h 00m 7.375s Called 1 times Avg 00h 00m 7.375s
STS: Section "Render:Drawing Particles":
STS: Total 00h 03m 09.047s Called 1 times Avg 00h 03m 09.047s
PRG: Finished rendering frame: 0

This equals 5m46s.

Then I tried an internal Beta build of a future version of Krakatoa in Max 2008 32 bit and it did not crash! The times were longer than the 2m45s for the 64 bit version of the same build I posted earlier, pretty much 4 minutes (which should make you excited for what is coming later this year, and it is even faster when using materials with heavy mapping and culling!)

PRG: Rendering frame 0
STS: Section "Retrieving Particles":
STS: Total 00h 00m 20.250s Called 1 times Avg 00h 00m 20.250s
PRG: Rendering 50000000 particles.
STS: Section "Render:Matte Objects":
STS: Total 00h 02m 00.453s Called 1 times Avg 00h 02m 00.453s
STS: Section "Render:Sorting Particles":
STS: Total 00h 00m 35.703s Called 1 times Avg 00h 00m 35.703s
STS: Section "Render:Drawing Particles":
STS: Total 00h 01m 04.562s Called 1 times Avg 00h 01m 04.562s
PRG: Finished rendering frame: 0

The conclusion is that there is a memory issue in Krakatoa 1.1.2 32 bit when preparing heavy Matte Geometry but it has been resolved in the current internal build. 64 bit appears to be working in both the shipping and the future versions as advertised.

Bobo
02-09-2009, 12:35 AM
Chad Capeland of Anatomical Travelogue has once again pushed Krakatoa into unexpected territory. Enjoy:

http://www.anatomicaltravel.com/research/2009/02/fun-wit-voxels-chameleo/

JonathanFreisler
02-09-2009, 12:43 AM
Holey crap. i was thinking "whats this a splash screen?? I dont get it..... oh.... wait holey crap"

Nice job. Bobo it must feel good to have krakatoa pushed to lenghts most of us cant even imagine.

JohnnyRandom
02-09-2009, 12:50 AM
Wow SSS with Krakatoa! Dudes doing some amazing stuff :) , man need more time in the day...really

JonathanFreisler
02-09-2009, 03:26 AM
heh i know johnny, perhaps if i stop sleeping i can catch up...

Glacierise
02-09-2009, 11:40 AM
That's insane! How many particles?!

Chad Capeland
02-09-2009, 02:55 PM
24 Megaparticles. They're uniform and isotropic, which is not ideal, of course. I could easily optimize it for better distribution later, but keeping the particles uniform makes testing much easier.

And there's no SSS, just S, being the "Scattering" part. There's no "Surface" for which to be "Sub" of.

- Chad

JohnnyRandom
02-09-2009, 03:31 PM
And there's no SSS, just S, being the "Scattering" part. There's no "Surface" for which to be "Sub" of.

- Chad

But there is the fantastic "illusion" of it, which was possible earlier, but looks so much different with the voxel engine :)

Chad Capeland
02-09-2009, 03:35 PM
This isn't voxel. It's still just point based. The point based rendering has some new features, but more importantly, it's whipping fast.

- Chad

JohnnyRandom
02-09-2009, 04:39 PM
No kidding! Did I read write, < 3 minutes for that frame? Impressive, definitely...

Chad Capeland
02-09-2009, 04:54 PM
Shhhh....

And time is a relative thing, Krakatoa isn't comparable to other renderers because of many factors. And my computer and scene isn't comparable to anything else either, so it's not much for metrics.

JohnnyRandom
02-09-2009, 06:45 PM
Render time is always relative and dependent on many factors but that fact is that time is still impressive for 24 mil particles with such a nice result. :)

Bobo
02-11-2009, 06:24 PM
Render time is always relative and dependent on many factors but that fact is that time is still impressive for 24 mil particles with such a nice result. :)

We are working on making that time shorter, even if it costs us sales ;)

Chad Capeland
02-11-2009, 06:38 PM
Ha! We all know that Krakatoa is a loss leader designed to drive Deadline sales, right?

Krakatoa is really a pleasure to use when you have a smoothly running Deadline farm. And we'd gladly take quality (and flexibility) over speed any day.

Bobo
02-11-2009, 06:49 PM
Ha! We all know that Krakatoa is a loss leader designed to drive Deadline sales, right?

Krakatoa is really a pleasure to use when you have a smoothly running Deadline farm. And we'd gladly take quality (and flexibility) over speed any day.

I was obviously talking about the "multi-shadow-map" request you made recently as it would theoretically produce the same result with 7 times less sorting, so you would get both quality and speed ;)

JohnnyRandom
02-11-2009, 07:07 PM
I'm still shocked how fast point rendering is, cool to watch it render too :D

Well certainly no where near as cool as Chad's chameleon but a quick test with voxels and fume driven smoke.

VoxelSmoke QT 4mb (http://4rand.com/TEST/Krakatoa/andFume/VoxelSmoke/FFX_Smoke_KrkVxls.mov)

http://4rand.com/TEST/Krakatoa/andFume/VoxelSmoke/FFX_Smoke_KrkVxls.png

PsychoSilence
02-12-2009, 01:12 AM
nice snow cannon :D
now go and make one with the cuda-pflow connection...i wanna see some avalanche action!

grury
02-12-2009, 08:35 AM
Hey Johnny, I really like that, it has a very foamy look/feel.
How did u achieve that? FumeFx sim loaded into PFlow?

Cheers

JohnnyRandom
02-12-2009, 03:39 PM
Good idea Anse :) something to mess around with.

Carlos, strictly fume, a couple of simple sources, the catch is the new voxel engine in Krakatoa.

Glacierise
02-12-2009, 03:52 PM
Damn I feel so much like skiing now :(

Hey Anselm, did you try that CUDA thing for PF? How's it doing?

grury
02-12-2009, 05:15 PM
Good idea Anse :) something to mess around with.

Carlos, strictly fume, a couple of simple sources, the catch is the new voxel engine in Krakatoa.

Oh wasnt aware of that feature, been wondering what the chameleon stuff was all about..:scream:
Gotta get on to it tomorrow.

Cheers matey.

JohnnyRandom
02-12-2009, 05:31 PM
Oh wasnt aware of that feature, been wondering what the chameleon stuff was all about..:scream:
Gotta get on to it tomorrow.

Cheers matey.

Voxel engine is still in beta. The Bouncing Brain Chad did was voxel and the Chameleon was point.

Als
02-21-2009, 01:28 AM
Yep, Krakatoa is currently available as a plugin renderer for Max 9, 2008 and 2009, 32 and 64 bit. You can theoretically download the 30 days demo of 3ds Max from the Autodesk site, get the Evaluation version of Krakatoa from the Frantic Films site and play with them for a month to see if they are worth having...

Just to double check this. There is no way to use krakatoa as a standalone command line render?
I would like to use it with maya, make my particles with maya, convert to realflow format, and then just render with krakatoa.
(and bore you until you give up and write maya plugin... ;)

Thanks


Als

Bobo
02-21-2009, 03:01 AM
Just to double check this. There is no way to use krakatoa as a standalone command line render?
I would like to use it with maya, make my particles with maya, convert to realflow format, and then just render with krakatoa.
(and bore you until you give up and write maya plugin... ;)

Thanks


Als

You can do all this, you "just" need a copy of 3ds Max (which you probably dislike already, as any good Maya user ;))

Seriously, there WAS a way to use Krakatoa as a stand-alone command line renderer. This is how it started (if you read the whole thread, you will find some details). The main reason for it to be stand-alone in those early days was that 32bit with 2-3GB of RAM could process only around 50M particles, and we needed WAY more than that (in Superman Returns we comped up to 1 billion per frame). Once 64 bit became available, it became possible to integrate Krakatoa into our 3D application of choice, and in the mean time the two have become inseparable workflow-wise. There is still a slight chance for the stand-alone version to become available some day, but this is not a promise.

Using a stand-alone version was a PITA since it required both particles AND matte geometry to be exported to external file formats (PRT for particles, XML for the scene description and a simple mesh format for the geometry). Compared to the current "Hit a button and 10 seconds later you have the image" workflow it was just painfully slow.

Als
02-22-2009, 12:45 AM
Thanks for the information.
I guess it's not really realistic to expect standalone nor maya version.
I just always wanted to render millions of particles with maya...

As someone once said:
Good particles go to Krakatoa, bad particles go elsewhere...


Als

Chad Capeland
02-23-2009, 02:48 AM
From a workflow standpoint, I don't see much of a point to having a standalone renderer, other than it not being tethered to 3ds max. There just isn't much functionality to be gained, but a lot to be lost.

If all you wanted was to import particles as well as lights and cameras, I bet you could do all that via maxscript and have that process be a custom Deadline job type.

Not sure it would be worth it, though, as Krakatoa requires a tremendous amount of tweaking. The slightest little changes in density can cause dramatic changes in look, so you really have to "develop" a render with numerous iterations.

Bobo
02-23-2009, 05:47 AM
From a workflow standpoint, I don't see much of a point to having a standalone renderer, other than it not being tethered to 3ds max. There just isn't much functionality to be gained, but a lot to be lost.

If all you wanted was to import particles as well as lights and cameras, I bet you could do all that via maxscript and have that process be a custom Deadline job type.

Not sure it would be worth it, though, as Krakatoa requires a tremendous amount of tweaking. The slightest little changes in density can cause dramatic changes in look, so you really have to "develop" a render with numerous iterations.

This is true. A possible solution would resemble Gelato - it provided a nice API to connect to and we were able to run it from inside of Max much like Max runs mental ray (and Maya runs about anything). It would feel like an internal renderer but in reality the 3D application would be calling it transparently to the user as an external one, performing all data conversion behind the scenes. Such a renderer could then be integrated into Max, Maya, XSI etc. The particle data would be sent to the renderer via its API without the need for an intermediate format, and the same would happen with camera, lights and geometry data.

The trouble is the stand-alone renderer we had was not designed for this. If this ever happens, it would be a major rewrite of what we know as Krakatoa today and would require significant personal resources on both the renderer side and the connection side.

grury
03-02-2009, 09:26 PM
Hey buddies, been doing some experiments with RealFlow n Krakatoa, check it out
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=154&t=736907

Cheers.

Bobo
03-03-2009, 03:22 PM
Hey buddies, been doing some experiments with RealFlow n Krakatoa, check it out
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=154&t=736907

Cheers.

Cool stuff!
Have you checked out the current Beta of Krakatoa?

grury
03-03-2009, 05:14 PM
Hi Bobo,

I havent used yet, I'm pretty busy at the moment, but will check it out as soon as I have some free time. I really wanna look much deeper into Krakatoa, I feel like I just been scratching the surfice.
A few days ago was trying to save particles as .bin files to load into RealFlow, but didnt quite manage to load them as sequence, altho if I select single frame RealFlow does load them. Think theres a lot of potencial for incressing the resolution in RealFlow by loading the particles into Max, then use the noise modifier create several copies of the flow n load em back into RealFlow for meshing.

Cheers.

Bobo
03-09-2009, 12:16 AM
Hi Bobo,

I havent used yet, I'm pretty busy at the moment, but will check it out as soon as I have some free time. I really wanna look much deeper into Krakatoa, I feel like I just been scratching the surfice.
A few days ago was trying to save particles as .bin files to load into RealFlow, but didnt quite manage to load them as sequence, altho if I select single frame RealFlow does load them. Think theres a lot of potencial for incressing the resolution in RealFlow by loading the particles into Max, then use the noise modifier create several copies of the flow n load em back into RealFlow for meshing.

Cheers.

Since both you and me have figured out the problem, it might be useful to post the details here.

First of all, here are the RealFlow BIN notes from our website:
http://www.franticfilms.com/software/support/krakatoa/bin_file_format.php
The last paragraphs explain why a BIN file saved out of Krakatoa with less than 5 trailing digits would cause problems in RealFlow.

Krakatoa has an optional precaution for this case - if you enter a file name in the file name field or press the BIN button next to the file name in the Detailed Path Controls area, a warning will pop up explaining why a BIN file must end with 5 digits and provide an automatic fix.
But it turned out that using the [...] button to specify the whole save path does not call this test function, resulting in a file name that is perfectly valid in Krakatoa but not matching the specs of RealFlow.
This omission in the Krakatoa GUI has been fixed for the next release. Until then, be sure to provide 5 explicit digits in the BIN file name when saving from Krakatoa.

Nazgul
03-11-2009, 06:48 PM
Hi,

I'm loading particles from a prt_loader and applied randomization to it via a NOISE modifier.
I basically did what they teach in the manual. Except that in the manual, the particles forming the teapot aren't animated.

I'm probably not understanding properly how to randomize partitions for prt_loader with Krakatoa cause my rendering looks like particle clumps. Is that how it's supposed to look?
Thanks

Chad Capeland
03-11-2009, 06:51 PM
Check the size of your noise. Might be too large.

- Chad

Bobo
03-11-2009, 07:34 PM
Hi,

I'm loading particles from a prt_loader and applied randomization to it via a NOISE modifier.
I basically did what they teach in the manual. Except that in the manual, the particles forming the teapot aren't animated.

I'm probably not understanding properly how to randomize partitions for prt_loader with Krakatoa cause my rendering looks like particle clumps. Is that how it's supposed to look?
Thanks

Can you post images of the rendering before/after the randomization and possibly a screenshot of you Noise modifier's settings? The approach should work with animated particles since the Noise deforms both positions and velocities (so even motion blur would work).

Nazgul
03-11-2009, 08:11 PM
Unfortunatly I can't post anything. We're behind tight security.

One thing I noticed is that I don't see the seed of the noise modifier increasing as mentionned in the doc.

System Unit Scale is 1 unit = 1 centimeter.

Here are my noise settings:

Scale: 6
Fractal is checked
Roughness: 0
Iterations: 6

Strenght: xyz= 0.008m

Animated noise is check off.

Thanks for your help.

Chad Capeland
03-11-2009, 08:49 PM
Yeah, the noise should be tiny. Very high frequency. Try 0.01 and see if that helps.

- Chad

Bobo
03-11-2009, 09:10 PM
Unfortunatly I can't post anything. We're behind tight security.

One thing I noticed is that I don't see the seed of the noise modifier increasing as mentionned in the doc.

System Unit Scale is 1 unit = 1 centimeter.

Here are my noise settings:

Scale: 6
Fractal is checked
Roughness: 0
Iterations: 6

Strenght: xyz= 0.008m

Animated noise is check off.

Thanks for your help.

And you have checked the ">PRT Loader Modifiers" checkbox in the Partitiong rollout, right? When testing on a Teapot, I had to check ">Geometry Modifiers", but if you are using a PRT Loader, you will have to use the other one. No other ideas why it wouldn't increment the seed.

And a Scale of 0.1 or less as Chad suggested is the way to go. You don't want just Noise, you want Chaos! :)

JonathanFreisler
03-11-2009, 11:29 PM
Strenght: xyz= 0.008m? But your in 1 unit = 1 centimeter. Isnt that 0.008 cm?

Bobo
03-11-2009, 11:44 PM
Strenght: xyz= 0.008m? But your in 1 unit = 1 centimeter. Isnt that 0.008 cm?

No, this value is in meters shown as User Units, so it equals 0.8 generic units or 0.8 cm.

Nazgul
03-16-2009, 06:26 PM
Nope still no luck. It basically takes one particles and creates multiple arround it. Like little clusters of particles. :(
Bummer

Chad Capeland
03-16-2009, 06:54 PM
So the spacing between particles (the spatial density) varies over the animation? If that's the case, then yes, you are seeing the correct result. The Noise doesn't know that your particle instances need to occupy more volume. That data is not available, nor could the Noise be told what to do with it. This would be something handled though Box#3 or some other method whereby you could determine the spatial density and density gradient and place the new particles appropriately. But this is sometimes slower than just making more partitions. YMMV.

- Chad

Nazgul
03-16-2009, 07:17 PM
That's what I tought.
I'll write a script in Softimage to tell ICE to change all my seeds and export different .prt that I'll load and render in Krakatoa.

Cheers for your patience and help!
MAC

Bobo
03-27-2009, 04:06 AM
A little preview (http://www.scriptspot.com/bobo/krakatoa/KRA_Dragon_Reflection_Turntable_v001.mov) of some upcoming features...

noouch
03-27-2009, 08:52 AM
What is it? Raytraced reflections? Implicit surfaces?

amckay
03-27-2009, 11:06 AM
very nice bobo

Glacierise
03-27-2009, 12:19 PM
Hey Bobo, that has reflections?! Sweet, I wondeh what the effect will be on the famous Krakatoa rendering speeds. And how many particles have you got up there?

Bobo
03-27-2009, 01:03 PM
Hey Bobo, that has reflections?! Sweet, I wondeh what the effect will be on the famous Krakatoa rendering speeds. And how many particles have you got up there?

I imported the Stanford dragon PLY which gave me a mesh with 871,414 polygons.
Krakatoa converted its volume on the fly to 7,473,323 particles - this took around 50 seconds including normals and texture coordinates acquisition. I saved the particles to a single PRT and loaded it into cache, then rendered the turntable. Illuminated by 2 spot lights and performing phong shading with an HDRI environment map as additional light source it took 34 seconds per frame. The density was set to 1/-2 so it produced a slight "SSS" effect (volumetric scattering) as the light penetrated the volume.

Of course, the main reason to do this would be to then let the model fall into 7M dust particles blown by the wind or something like that, but the Stanford page warns the user not to destroy any of the characters (dragon, Buddha etc.) since they are considered sacred by certain cultures...

Apropos render speed - I personally consider Krakatoa 1.1.x rather slow, so we are constantly pushing for more performance. Especially on multi-threaded systems, the next version will be faster - just yesterday we made matte objects handling 70 (seventy) times faster, possibly even more depending on the geometry complexity. But I admit matte objects were the slowest component of the system.

noouch
03-27-2009, 01:33 PM
Of course, the main reason to do this would be to then let the model fall into 7M dust particles blown by the wind or something like that, but the Stanford page warns the user not to destroy any of the characters (dragon, Buddha etc.) since they are considered sacred by certain cultures...
I don't think that applies to the armadillo ;)

Glacierise
03-27-2009, 02:59 PM
Hah i feel amazed! Extermely cool that krakatoa stuff! I didn't know it has its own particle-generating tool, and the HDR illumination is great. That's just getting better and better!

JohnnyRandom
03-27-2009, 04:40 PM
I don't think that applies to the armadillo ;)


LOL or the Bunny :D

Glacierise, your gunna freak when you see what's in store!

Glacierise
03-27-2009, 04:46 PM
Teaser mode ha? Bring it, madaf***er :D After i'm done with my current proj, I'd really go into scripting, and do some box3/TP with Krakatoa. I've actually seen the voxel renderer at work - fan-tastic. I'm wondering whet would happen if i take a few fume sims, make particles run thorough them and color them fancily with TP or box 3, then render with the voxel renderer. Pretty colors guaranteed! Damn i'm looking forward to that!

PsychoSilence
03-27-2009, 04:56 PM
i color voxels with spot lights :)

rendering straight from fume is pretty kick ar$e. caching PRTs without having to come up with a particle system/fume follow rather then straight from a fume sim is neat too...almost cuts out the middle man...if u can render it u can cache it ;)

although i'm not sure if i was supposed to tell that yet. bobo will go into detail here at a given time.

kind regards,
Anselm

Bobo
03-27-2009, 05:44 PM
LOL or the Bunny :D

Glacierise, your gunna freak when you see what's in store!

Ah, yes, the bunny...

http://www.franticfilms.com/software/support/krakatoa/images/stanford_bunny_2spot_voxel1_filter1.png

http://www.franticfilms.com/software/support/krakatoa/images/krakatoa_bunny_fur50k_2spot_particles_lessdense.png

Btw Johnny, YOU are gunna freak when you see what is in store next build ;)

jigu
03-27-2009, 06:14 PM
oh loved those bunnies!!

the new release is going to be so excited!

JohnnyRandom
03-27-2009, 06:18 PM
Btw Johnny, YOU are gunna freak when you see what is in store next build ;)

I already have a hard enough time trying to get to sleep, you guys aren't helping!

Glacierise
03-27-2009, 06:19 PM
@Anselm: Fume rendering directly with Krak, that's mighty!

@Bobo: Furry bunnies?! Really, you do gur with particles, that's totally off the hook! I can imagine at some point, bobo saying - "I would stipulate that everything whould be rendered with particles, atom-scale if need be. After all, that\s the way God made it, so it can't be wrong" :D heh crazy stuff, keep sharing!

Bobo
03-29-2009, 05:21 AM
@Bobo: Furry bunnies?! Really, you do gur with particles, that's totally off the hook! I can imagine at some point, bobo saying - "I would stipulate that everything whould be rendered with particles, atom-scale if need be. After all, that\s the way God made it, so it can't be wrong" :D heh crazy stuff, keep sharing!

This is a philosophical topic, of course, but... Most renderers out there simplify reality because of the nature of solid objects - they either stop at the surface, bounce a ray and assume there is nothing inside, or go inside with the ray and assume the volume is isotropic until the ray leaves the volume. Some of them CAN do volumetric rendering by marching a ray through a volume and can handle anisotropic volumes. So for them, volumetric rendering is a side job. Sub-Surface Scattering in the world of surface rendering is (as Chad Capeland mentioned) faking what would happen under the surface, but there is nothing there.

Krakatoa is exactly the opposite - it was designed to deal with particles and volumetric rendering, so "sub-surface" scattering is its natural thing but there are no surfaces, just volumes. Simulating the bread and butter of other renderers (hard surfaces) is a side job for Krakatoa and is typically used just before blowing the object into particles to reveal it is actually solid. With the upcoming version, we add volumetric rendering of particles as voxels which will have some additional implications, but still Krakatoa remains a niche product and does not claim to be more than a particle renderer. It is meant to deliver passes for compositing to be integrated with the render output of other renderers. It wants to play nice with as many other products as possible (PFlow+Boxes, TP, FumeFX etc.) and enhance their output. It does not try to compete with them, it is an extension toolkit. There is still some lack of integration when it comes to playing nice with reflections, refractions and GI in other renderers, although we have some ideas how to solve that.

But at the end of the day, some of these results you see (hard surfaces, hair and fur etc.) are more like curiosities than actual production features. They are witness to the flexibility of particles in general and volumetric particle rendering in particular, but not something that would REPLACE the other methods. Rendering phenomena containing actual particles (smoke, water droplets, silt, sand etc.) as particles is a good idea though. And it is rather good for pixie dust, Ki blasts and Kame-hame-ha, too. :)

SoLiTuDe
03-29-2009, 05:43 AM
Slightly OT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh2q_p6hQEo

Thought it looked way cool -- looks very krakatoa-esque :D

friedpixels
03-29-2009, 06:46 AM
Really look forward to playing with this new build whenever it hits us laymen :D

JonathanFreisler
03-30-2009, 12:26 AM
Wow, bobo. This stuff is incredible!

Looking forward to it.

Bobo
03-30-2009, 04:39 AM
Wow, bobo. This stuff is incredible!

Looking forward to it.

I wouldn't go that far, you can get renderings like that in any renderer. The fun part is blowing them into dust after that, or cutting portions of them since they are true volumes. For example the fluffy bunny is completely filled with pinkish particles to simulate the flesh/skin underneath the hair...

There are some more new images and videos on the Work In Progress Gallery page (http://www.franticfilms.com/software/support/krakatoa/work_in_progress_gallery.php).

JonathanFreisler
03-30-2009, 04:44 AM
Oh, i was more refering to the dragon and reflections and stats and stuff. The last 2 pages in general :P

ANd the fact its done in krakatoa :applause:

jigu
03-30-2009, 06:42 AM
It's been long time since I posted anything here....

though I would post it..

Here is the aerial shot of island's beachwaves rendered with Krakatoa 1.5 pretty fast :

http://rapidshare.com/files/215214144/beach_Waves_aerial.avi.html

Sorry for rapidshare link. Unable to upload on my server.

grury
03-30-2009, 07:34 AM
..For example the fluffy bunny is completely filled with pinkish particles to simulate the flesh/skin underneath the hair...

LOL!

Hey Bobo, is the new feature, turning geometry into particles, already part of the Beta version??

Havent had much time to play with it yet, but the Voxel render is pretty awesome, and one feature that I found very useful is the Krakatoa Camera Mod.

Bobo
03-30-2009, 01:38 PM
LOL!

Hey Bobo, is the new feature, turning geometry into particles, already part of the Beta version??

Look for the Krakatoa GeoVolume Modifier next to the Camera Mod.

JohnnyRandom
03-30-2009, 04:41 PM
It's been long time since I posted anything here....

though I would post it..

Here is the aerial shot of island's beachwaves rendered with Krakatoa 1.5 pretty fast :

http://rapidshare.com/files/215214144/beach_Waves_aerial.avi.html

Sorry for rapidshare link. Unable to upload on my server.

That's pretty cool Jigu, would like to see the comp too :D

Glacierise
03-30-2009, 04:54 PM
Yeah very cool waves, congrats!

jigu
03-31-2009, 06:20 AM
Thanks guys! :)

I can't show final comp as It's not ready yet. Once project will be over I will be able to show result.

I made splines to emit waves on shorelines and there were many splines and for each splines I had to make particleflow setup (just copy and paste and replacing in events). I also used negative wind force to push waves back after certain age.

I hope I will be able to show compo soon. but I can show some screenshots of viewport and pflow.

EDIT : It was rendered with 8 motionblur passes in krakatoa and still fast.... ))

JohnnyRandom
04-07-2009, 11:46 PM
Hah, cool Jigu ;)


Bobo throws out another bone :) Nice quick tut on vaporizing a car...

Studio Daily Krakatoa Tutorial (http://www.studiodaily.com/main/training/Disintegrate-Geometry-Objects-using-Frantic-Films-Krakatoa-and-Autodesk-3ds-Max_10691.html)

No bunnies were harmed in the making of that tutorial (as far as we know)

PsychoSilence
04-08-2009, 12:00 AM
nice, i did a test once for a porsche image film :) i followed the tutorial on the frantic website "Camera Mapping Particles Using Dataflow"

Bobo
04-08-2009, 04:39 AM
nice, i did a test once for a porsche image film :) i followed the tutorial on the frantic website "Camera Mapping Particles Using Dataflow"

Historically speaking, the original Mini disintegration involved an in-house Camera Mapping tool which we are still using internally, but we could not release to the public. So I had to come up with workarounds for the general public. The first one used Box #3 or alternatively Script operators. But these required either a 3rd party plugin that costs as much as Krakatoa or scripting knowledge, so when I was asked to write a Train Up tutorials for Studio Monthly, I figured it would be possible to use the 3ds Max Per-Pixel Camera Map. I had just used that Map to tweak the look of the final Kame-hame-ha explosion (originally created by CGTalk's very own Magicm aka Martijn Van Herk) for Dragonball:Evolution and it turned out to work interactively in the viewport when applied to a PRT Loader, which was a nice surprise. (For the record, DB:E is not the worst movie I have ever worked on. I have an Uwe Boll title on my list ;))

So this version is Max+Krakatoa only without the need for any other plugins. I know the camera mapping technique is being used at Frantic on some other movies right now, so it is a general practice for blowing stuff up into dust...

meg
04-08-2009, 08:42 AM
Here is my Krakatoa test:
http://deko.lt/tmp/DeKo_Krakatoa_Sun_test.jpg

http://deko.lt/tmp/DeKo_Sun_test_mid.mov

Krakatoa + Digital Fusion ;)

Hi all...does someone know what are the particle flow settings for this amazing scene/video??? Or at least the operators used?? thx a lot guys

Wicked
04-08-2009, 10:13 AM
Basically I would say:
- position object (the sun)
- spherical wind (for movement of the particles)
- spawn by travel (for the trails)
- scale operator (to make the particles disappear at the end)

You can make it even nicer with animated wind force (turbulence), drag etc.

I made an quick sample. Click here (save as..) (http://www.wickedstuff.nl/vfx/sun_trails.max). It just shows the basics, but should give you a good idea.

You might wanna crank up the amount of particles. My PIV 2.26Ghz with only 1Gig ram can´t handle the amount of particles I would like to see in my viewport :D

meg
04-08-2009, 10:57 AM
Basically I would say:
- position object (the sun)
- spherical wind (for movement of the particles)
- spawn by travel (for the trails)
- scale operator (to make the particles disappear at the end)

You can make it even nicer with animated wind force (turbulence), drag etc.

I made an quick sample. Click here (save as..) (http://www.wickedstuff.nl/vfx/sun_trails.max). It just shows the basics, but should give you a good idea.

You might wanna crank up the amount of particles. My PIV 2.26Ghz with only 1Gig ram can´t handle the amount of particles I would like to see in my viewport :D
thx a lot for your reply!
I think I have to work with turbulence to make the movement of the trails more inconsistent like the real gases are...
What are the best way to display the particles like them in the image? thicks? dots? in this way seems too bubbles...

StevieMac
04-08-2009, 12:51 PM
Bobo do you or can you post some pics or a vid of the Kame-hame-ha explosion? Would be great to see how you guys went about doing it.

Stevie

Bobo
04-08-2009, 01:26 PM
Bobo do you or can you post some pics or a vid of the Kame-hame-ha explosion? Would be great to see how you guys went about doing it.

Stevie

The movie is coming out on Friday in North America and the UK, you could see it yourself. Krakatoa was used for all Ki blasts, Mafuba and KHH in the final battle and a bit in another sequence where it is not quite as obvious, but I cannot talk about that yet. The Ki blasts in the rest of the movie were made by Hybride so I don't know what they used.

fiftypercent
04-12-2009, 03:26 AM
i have made a video using krakatoa for 1 of the effects... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BJiO-PCjic

SoLiTuDe
04-12-2009, 04:01 AM
i have made a video using krakatoa for 1 of the effects... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BJiO-PCjic

Cool lil' project you guys did there... did you do all the fx? The other effects weren't quite up to par with the nightcrawler effect... but all is forgiven, since you pulled that one off really well. :thumbsup: Good job!

fiftypercent
04-12-2009, 04:50 AM
lol yea 4get the rest of them lol... just the nightcrawler 1

Bobo
04-14-2009, 04:37 AM
lol yea 4get the rest of them lol... just the nightcrawler 1

The first thing that I thought when I saw the effect was - this would look great with some FumeFX love...

You guys know that I love 3D trivia.... While Krakatoa wasn't directly involved in the original Nightcrawler effect (it didn't even exist at that time), there are some curious indirect connections:

*First of all, Frantic Films did the previs of that effect, and most of the rest of the previsualization of X2 (http://www.franticfilms.com/vfx/projects/view_project/?id=34) as well as some final effects involving... millions of particles from a LIDAR scan (http://www.franticfilms.com/images/userfiles/154-15_43%20copy.jpg) later in the movie :) First thing PFlow was used for at Frantic right after its release for Max 5.
*The actual effect was created with the involvement of Jerry Tessendorf (http://www.rabop.com/pictures/sandiego_070812/pages/DSCN8711.htm) (photographed by me at our Siggraph booth in San Diego) who is one of the famous names in fluid simulation development and the author of the paper Frantic's Flood:Surf is based on. The effect was done is a very similar way to what you would achieve with FumeFX nowadays.
*The visual effects supervisor of the show responsible for the creation of the effect was Mike Fink (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0277842/), who is now my boss at Frantic VFX/Prime Focus Group (http://www.animationxpress.com/anex/y2k8/headlines/anex3640.htm#) and who told us the story about the Nightcrawler creation at his introduction to the company staff.

It is a small world and an even smaller community.

Glacierise
04-14-2009, 09:37 AM
That really is astonishing heh :) Thanks for the insights again Bobo :)

toenexx
04-15-2009, 04:17 AM
Hey there guys! First time coming on 3DS Max forums.

Anyways, I haven't gone through all the pages on this thread, but I was wondering if there was a specific workflow for exporting particles out of Maya, into Realflow, and then bringing it into 3DSMax/Krakatoa for rendering?

Anything help will be appreciated, thanks!

Bobo
04-15-2009, 05:14 AM
Hey there guys! First time coming on 3DS Max forums.

Anyways, I haven't gone through all the pages on this thread, but I was wondering if there was a specific workflow for exporting particles out of Maya, into Realflow, and then bringing it into 3DSMax/Krakatoa for rendering?

Anything help will be appreciated, thanks!

Hi and welcome!

I don't know of anything written on the topic.
The facts: as far as I know, you can export particles from Maya into Realflow BIN format via a plugin from Next Limit. See this PDF for info (http://www.realflow.com/documentation/realflow-mayaplugin.pdf). Krakatoa can read the BIN files directly even if they have not been produced by Realflow, so you might just try to export the BINs, then open 3ds Max, create a PRT Loader object and pick the BIN file sequence. You would have to transform the PRT Loader to change from Y-up to Z-up, but that is trivial.

If that does not work for some reason, Krakatoa supports a simple ASCII format (comma separated values CSV) which can contain arbitrary named channels. It would be quite easy to write such a file using MEL or Python. The only drawbacks are file size (since not compressed) and the inability to read every Nth particle in the Krakatoa PRT Loader object (since no info on total count in header).

Alternatively, for the technically savvy people out there, we have posted the specs of our internal particle format (PRT) which also supports arbitrary named channels but is also binary, zipped and can be loaded using the every Nth particle option. Some people have developed plugins for other applications to write PRT files, including Softimage, Fusion and Houdini. I have not heard of a Maya plugin, but somebody might have written one or might want to do so...

Keep in mind that Krakatoa needs more than 1M particles to produce usable results, and typical work involves orders of magnitude more, so disk space and system limitations might apply. Rendering 100K particles would be rather disappointing. On the other hand, there are some ways to increase the number of particles by repartitioning an existing BIN sequence which are outlined in the Krakatoa Online Reference.

Also, the next version of Krakatoa currently in Beta will feature among other things a new voxel rendering mode which can produce relatively solid results with a lot less particles.

Hope this helps.

galagast
04-15-2009, 07:40 AM
You guys know that I love 3D trivia.... While Krakatoa wasn't directly involved in the original Nightcrawler effect (it didn't even exist at that time), there are some curious indirect connections:
That was a very delightful trivia Bobo, thanks! The nightcrawler effect was actually what brought me to start using particles and pflow way back then. After seeing that effect in the theater, I was like "Whoa! how did they do that effect?!"

Also, the next version of Krakatoa currently in Beta will feature among other things a new voxel rendering mode which can produce relatively solid results with a lot less particles.
Sounds awesome! :D

Bobo
04-16-2009, 02:08 AM
Sounds awesome! :D

The funny thing is that isn't even the best or biggest feature we have added :D

oatz
04-16-2009, 03:52 AM
Bobo, when Pflow was launched there was (for the time) an incredible example video called "tendril" i believe...It used the Phantom particle type and was reported as using a custom renderer. Was this the early stage of krak?

Bobo
04-16-2009, 03:59 AM
Bobo, when Pflow was launched there was (for the time) an incredible example video called "tendril" i believe...It used the Phantom particle type and was reported as using a custom renderer. Was this the early stage of krak?

Nope.
I think there was something called "fuzzy tentacle love" which was rendered using a custom render effect, possibly by John Burnett. I know that the scene shipped as example but could not be rendered in Max due to the amount of particles it spawned.

The story of Krakatoa is described in the beginning of this thread - in short, it started in 2004 with some work on the Marc Forster movie "Stay" together with Doc Baily after Entropy/Renderman failed to give us the speed and control we needed.

For X2, Laszlo Sebo wrote some additional operators to deal with point culling and distance measuring, but it wasn't rendered using a dedicated particle renderer. But this was before I came to Frantic, so my knowledge is limited.

oatz
04-16-2009, 04:09 AM
Nope.
I think there was something called "fuzzy tentacle love" which was rendered using a custom render effect, possibly by John Burnett. I know that the scene shipped as example but could not be rendered in Max due to the amount of particles it spawned.


That's the clip. After a search I found this from Allan Mckay off of a thread from 2004:

RE: Fuzzy tentacle love, John Burnette created that during the alpha of pflow, he wrote his own point renderer operator for rendering it out which basically renders a transparent additive pixel where every particle is meant to go, so he's able to render large particle counts (that scene I believe is 5 million particles?) fairly quickly, whereas if it were rendering facet particles it would probably run out of memory or at least render dog slow. As far as I know he hasn't publically released the point renderer, although it wouldn't take long to write one up.

Glacierise
04-20-2009, 10:26 AM
Hey Bobo, guys, what is the most efficient way to render with motion blur and mattes? I need lots of passes for my mblur, like 32 sometimes, and the recalculation of the matte per pass is slowing me down. Thanks!

Bobo
04-20-2009, 01:51 PM
Hey Bobo, guys, what is the most efficient way to render with motion blur and mattes? I need lots of passes for my mblur, like 32 sometimes, and the recalculation of the matte per pass is slowing me down. Thanks!

Are you using the 1.1.2 build or the latest Beta?

Glacierise
04-20-2009, 01:56 PM
I'm with 1.4.3.35021 :)

Bobo
04-21-2009, 12:07 AM
I'm with 1.4.3.35021 :)

Try 1.4.4 or 1.4.5 - in a heavy matte geometry scene we tested with, it was 70 TIMES faster. (YMMV, but it is pretty freaking awesome, plus you are missing all the rest of the COOL stuff we cannot talk about here)

JohnnyRandom
04-21-2009, 03:13 AM
I'm with 1.4.3.35021 :) Slacker, update! You'll freak! :D

Bobo
04-21-2009, 04:07 AM
Slacker, update! You'll freak! :D

Pixomondo is in the middle of a heavy project, I assume it is not his decision what to use.
But if Matte Objects are the bottleneck, a newer Beta would be a good idea.

JohnnyRandom
04-21-2009, 04:19 AM
gotcha ;) , didn't know he was using it in prod...(and I hope Hristo knows I was just giving him a hard time :) ) I should just get back to dumping coins slot machines... :(

Glacierise
04-21-2009, 10:00 AM
Being Pixo, masters of flexibility, the Dalai Lama of the pipelines, and the contortionist of data-fumbling, we're getting it! Great, now I can be excited and mute for the crazy cool stuff too :D But I am real happy about the mattes, thanks!

depleteD
04-22-2009, 12:30 AM
Man this is really exciting stuff! I really gotta find the time to tie krakatoa into our pipeline here at blur. Arg!

-ANdrew

dementol
04-23-2009, 03:37 PM
Hey Bobo,
There is any way to import krakatoa *.bin files to fumefx so I could render it with it.

Bobo
04-23-2009, 05:21 PM
Hey Bobo,
There is any way to import krakatoa *.bin files to fumefx so I could render it with it.

1. BIN files are RealFlow. Krakatoa only supports them, they are not its native format.
2. PRT files are the native format of Krakatoa, but you cannot render them in FumeFX.
3. I don't see a reason to render Krakatoa files in Fume since the upcoming version of Krakatoa provides the same voxel rendering abilities as FumeFX, but with much less memory overhead and a lot more control over the values in each voxel (wait a couple of months and you'll see what I am talking about)

RedXR
04-23-2009, 08:11 PM
Small question Bobo, how do we get the beta? As of late, our pipeline has become even more Krakatoa intensive so any nifty updates would be helpful.

Bobo
04-23-2009, 09:13 PM
Small question Bobo, how do we get the beta? As of late, our pipeline has become even more Krakatoa intensive so any nifty updates would be helpful.

Anyone with a support contract, in other words anyone with a commercial copy of Krakatoa who is paying the yearly support fees, is entitled to participate in the Beta. I am sorry if this has not been made clear, it is one of the perks of being a paying Krakatoa customer.

Email Krakatoa Support and we will tell you how to get in.
"Nifty" is an understatement. I am doing look development tests in production with the current beta and man does it make me happy... :arteest:

RedXR
04-23-2009, 09:42 PM
You got me smiling ear to ear. I'll drop you guys an e-mail as soon as I can. Thanks for the quick feedback, really appreciate it.

friedpixels
04-23-2009, 11:41 PM
Anyone with a support contract, in other words anyone with a commercial copy of Krakatoa who is paying the yearly support fees, is entitled to participate in the Beta. I am sorry if this has not been made clear, it is one of the perks of being a paying Krakatoa customer.

Email Krakatoa Support and we will tell you how to get in.
"Nifty" is an understatement. I am doing look development tests in production with the current beta and man does it make me happy... :arteest:

i didn't know thats how it worked either! i want it as well :)

jigu
04-25-2009, 10:07 AM
Playing around with Krakatoa in little free time... Trying Krakatoa Camera for DOF. I made this for CGSphere.com project.

Link (http://www.cgsphere.com/gallery/details/?category=&view=rating&artist=&main_app=&limit=6&fimit=0&submission_id=533)

JohnnyRandom
04-25-2009, 11:30 PM
Long time no see Jigu :)

Sandy :D Nice sphere. Dof looks pretty good too ;)

jigu
04-26-2009, 05:51 AM
Thanks Johnny... I thought CGSphere should have Krakatoa entry.. )

Been busy with projects. I hope I will be able to post some done krakatoa stuff soon.

And also will make some new personal stuff soon. (Wanna try those voxels...)

DeKo-LT
04-28-2009, 11:32 AM
http://deko.lt/tmp/DeKo_Krakatoa_Sun_test.jpg
Hi all...does someone know what are the particle flow settings for this amazing scene/video??? Or at least the operators used?? thx a lot guys

Actually krakatoa is used there only for testing purposes, mostly work was done in post production (I use Digital Fusion)
Krakatoa pass you can view here:
http://deko.lt/tmp/Forums/spind_test_0311.jpg

Hope that helps ;)

DeKo-LT
04-28-2009, 11:58 AM
One more salute for this wonderful tool :love:

Project rendered with Krakatoa (particles was driven with Pflow+FumeFX):
http://deko.lt/tmp/Forums/SPA_titulinis_small.jpg

HD animation on Vimeo:
http://vimeo.com/1755557

grury
04-28-2009, 01:50 PM
One more salute for this wonderful tool :love:

Project rendered with Krakatoa (particles was driven with Pflow+FumeFX):


WOW!!! Dude, thats absolutly gorgeous.
Would love to have a look at your Flow

JohnnyRandom
04-28-2009, 03:17 PM
Deko, Awesome, wonderful job :D

ctp
04-28-2009, 03:36 PM
Yeah DeKo-LT! Really nice work! Thanks for sharing.
Though I'm a Maya user I follow this thread and hope to get going with some Max someday, for the sole purpose of playing with Krakatoa. Dang, Frantic you've created a wonderful and much longed for tool! Thumbs up!

Bobo
04-28-2009, 03:37 PM
One more salute for this wonderful tool :love:


Thanks for the flowers, I love what you have done with it!
Would you mind if I would add a couple of screenshots and a link to your site from our W.I.P page here (http://www.franticfilms.com/software/support/krakatoa/work_in_progress_gallery.php)?

Glacierise
04-28-2009, 03:38 PM
Deko, awesome! It would be great to see a making-of about this one :)

DeKo-LT
04-28-2009, 06:08 PM
Thank you guys :beer:

Workflow was pretty simple:
animated characters mesh -> FumeFX pass -> PFlow particles placed on Fume -> Krakatoa -> Digital Fusion.
I hope that personal tips&tuts site will become online someday, then i will post more info ;)

Bobo:
sure you can :thumbsup:
Someday later i can make more Hi-rez screens and PM you or place those on Frantic webboard ;)

grury
04-28-2009, 06:23 PM
Workflow was pretty simple:

-> PFlow particles placed on Fume -> Krakatoa...



So you actually rendered the Fume grid with Krakatoa?? or you meant Fume loaded into PFlow??

DeKo-LT
04-28-2009, 07:01 PM
So you actually rendered the Fume grid with Krakatoa?? or you meant Fume loaded into PFlow??

Simulated FumeFX grid was used in particle Flow with FumeFX Follow op, then those particles (about 6- 12 mln particles on one character) rendered with Krakatoa.

grury
04-28-2009, 08:06 PM
Ah ok.

A couple of days ago I was trying to figure out how the new Krakatoa FumeFx mod works, but didnt have much luck.
I've seen some of Johnnys renders with the Krak Channel mod, and they look very nice, was wondering if you had used the same.

Krakatoa is just endless fun. Right now I'm doing some tests with 3000 bouncing spheres as emiters for 38 Million particles...:p

jigu
04-29-2009, 05:12 AM
wow that looks great, deko! :thumbsup:

JohnnyRandom
05-11-2009, 10:01 PM
You guys seen this yet? 0.5 million particles in realtime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuZQpWo9Qhs&feature=channel_page

Bobo
05-12-2009, 02:53 PM
You guys seen this yet? 0.5 million particles in realtime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuZQpWo9Qhs&feature=channel_page


Of course we have seen this, but this post should have been in the FumeFX thread because the simulation aspect of the CUDA demo is more interesting than the rendering part (I am sure Kreso is looking into that).

Krakatoa was never designed to go realtime because there is no way you can get 100+ million particles per frame from PRT files into memory in real time regardless of what network connections or hard drives we will get in the next couple of years. Accelerating Krakatoa rendering through CUDA or Larrabee (when it comes) would be an option (especially the KCM aspect of it, you know what I mean ;)) and "Speed" is my middle name so I always push for improving performance, but when we have to make a choice between speed and flexibility we usually prefer the latter (or both, of possible :)).

Still, a very cool demo video.

JohnnyRandom
05-13-2009, 07:09 PM
Just thought it was interesting, many particles and all :)

I can see why you would say better off in the Fume thread being grid generated particles. I wasn't trying to imply making Krakatoa realtime, although 0.5 million particles practically render realtime in Krakatoa (child's play :) )

"Speed" is my middle name Would you like a copy of my avatar? :D

HeadSmell
05-18-2009, 03:35 AM
I think Krakatoa is messing up my max script listener, as it's not able to record...Anyone having this issue? And/Or able to get around this without uninstalling??

-I'm on Max 2009 64

floopyb
05-18-2009, 03:46 AM
I think Krakatoa is messing up my max script listener, as it's not able to record...Anyone having this issue? And/Or able to get around this without uninstalling??

-I'm on Max 2009 64

Yes, yes and yes!
You need to disable the Krakatoa VFB extensions.

This is from the frantic support forums:
http://support.franticvfx.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1323&sid=e1d8787bd58f96a9c534c2ddb20ed926

Bobo wrote:4. A couple of days ago we had a problem where the Krakatoa VFB extensions were causing a problem in Max 2009 on specific machines of one of our customers. Disabling the extensions fixed the problem. It might be worth trying as last resort. To disable, open KrakatoaStartup.ms (after renaming it back from .bak) and change the line 'if (maxVersion())[1] >= 10900 do' to 'if (maxVersion())[1] >= 20900 do' - this will disable the loading of the VFB extensions, but the rest of Krakatoa should be running as usual. See if it changes anything.

HeadSmell
05-18-2009, 04:33 AM
Sweet...I'm not going insane then

Thanks floopyb:buttrock:

HeadSmell
05-18-2009, 06:05 AM
Confirming that it work on my box! thanks again

Bobo
05-18-2009, 08:54 PM
Confirming that it work on my box! thanks again

The next version of Krakatoa will have a checkbox to disable the VFB extensions through the Preferences. Of course, we will try to fix the MacroRecorder problem, but who knows if we will be able to. Also, due to the massive changes to UI controls in the next version, the VFB extensions will have to be totally rewritten (or dropped completely) anyway. There is also a chance that Max 2010 fixes the problem - will have to test that.

jlelievre
05-29-2009, 01:33 AM
I have been playing around with the public release of Krakatoa a little again before I jump head first into the deep end and I had a question for anyone who is willing to answer it. :)

Its not really a specific question I guess, but when you are doing partitioning with Krakatoa, is there a general number you go for in regards to how many particles/partitions you are creating? Or do you just create as many as are required to make the shot look cool?

Here is a test I have been playing with lately; nothing fancy as it's only 10 partitions of 200,000 particles. I'm going to crank everything up obviously but I just wanted to get a sense of how people are partitioning their particles.

http://www.intrinsia.net/fxfiles/dust_v001.jpg

Quicktime link : Dust test (http://www.intrinsia.net/fxfiles/dust_v001_h264.mov)


Thanks!

Bobo
05-29-2009, 02:03 AM
I have been playing around with the public release of Krakatoa a little again before I jump head first into the deep end and I had a question for anyone who is willing to answer it. :)

Its not really a specific question I guess, but when you are doing partitioning with Krakatoa, is there a general number you go for in regards to how many particles/partitions you are creating? Or do you just create as many as are required to make the shot look cool?


Here is my take on it:

http://www.franticfilms.com/software/support/krakatoa/frequently_asked_questions.php#Few_Large_Partitions_vs._Many_Small_Partitions

jlelievre
05-29-2009, 02:18 AM
Thanks Bobo; exactly what I was looking for! :)

Glacierise
05-29-2009, 08:21 AM
Hey dude, nice test! I love the viscous quality of it :) On the particle number question - I have never felt limited by Krakatoa. I just use the amount of particles needed - you'll be surprised how cool things can be made with a small number of particles. So when you do dust, snowflakes, sparks - i go with small pflows - 100-200K, and I always do more partitions than I initially estimate to be enough - caching is so fast that you can allow for more, and then reduce in rendering, if needed. But when you wat to play with bigger or more solid volumes - no problem with 1 mln particle flows and dozens of partitions!

My current fav Krak workflow is to cache TP particles, bring them in PFlow and spawn from them, cache again and render with PRT loaders :) Bridging the two particle systems so you can have the best of both - now that's an achievement!

jlelievre
05-29-2009, 06:43 PM
Cool! Thanks for the tips Glacierise! I wish I had the time to tinker around with TP; I have been meaning to try it out in depth for a while now.

JohnnyRandom
05-29-2009, 09:18 PM
Nice dust Intrinsia ;) Fume and Krakatoa go together so well, it never ceases to amaze, a marriage made in heaven :)

SoLiTuDe
05-31-2009, 04:56 AM
Here is a test I have been playing with lately; nothing fancy as it's only 10 partitions of 200,000 particles. I'm going to crank everything up obviously but I just wanted to get a sense of how people are partitioning their particles.

Thanks!

Quick question -- is there any sort of special collision object you were using?? I'm trying to get those curls as the object passes through (that kind of curl up around the back like a plane passing through clouds does)... pain in the arse. :D Thanks!

Glacierise
05-31-2009, 08:51 AM
Hey Ian - the trick to do that is to have a simple surce trailing behind your collision object, with everything on add 0, and radial velocity set to minus something. If you want it to stop, you gotta animate it to 0 though :) But that trailing velocity sources thing is veeeery useful!

jlelievre
06-02-2009, 02:58 AM
I don't have the file here in front of me at the moment but I believe I just used a sphere and then used a fume object source emitter. The sphere was animated moving around and acts as a collision object. I can post the file online lagter this week for anyone who wants it.

SoLiTuDe
06-02-2009, 06:10 AM
^sounds simple enough. I was trying with just a sphere, not as an object source... I'll play with Hristo's suggestions as well...

tasiek
06-04-2009, 09:25 AM
My current fav Krak workflow is to cache TP particles, bring them in PFlow and spawn from them, cache again and render with PRT loaders :) Bridging the two particle systems so you can have the best of both - now that's an achievement!

Just wandering, how exactly do you bring cached TP particles into PF ?

Glacierise
06-04-2009, 09:31 AM
Straightforward - cache the TP with Krakatoa, then make a pflow and put the Krakatoa file birth/file update/id test in it, open the cache and voilla :)

tasiek
06-04-2009, 09:36 AM
thx! sounds easy, will try whenever I have a chance.

greets

jeonado
06-06-2009, 10:17 AM
Hi, everyone.
I'm newbie in both krakatoa and pflow.
Here I have 2 question to ask.

I've followed through the documentation here http://www.franticfilms.com/software/support/krakatoa/camera_mapping_particles_using_dataflow.php to replicate one of the most prominent Krakatoa demos which is car dispersing away with turbulent wind.


But unfortunately, I face 2 obstacles.

Obstacle No.1, My krakatoa render doesn't match the camera map. I've followed exactly as the documentation stated set my camera map to Width: 2 and the is height 2.0/Image Aspect. Therefore, my map size is 1280px x 720px and the size of the projection plane is length: 1.25 width: 2

Here's the camera map.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_togwyrdcnSs/SipBVJaUx_I/AAAAAAAAAR8/gj-kHrf_7jo/s1600-h/Projectio+Map.jpg

Here's the krakatoa render. ( Obviously it didn't match the camera map. )
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_togwyrdcnSs/SipBU4mfOVI/AAAAAAAAAR0/7vgdMp_pjgY/s1600-h/dispos.jpg



Obstacle No.2, when i sent the particles to next event, the particles no longer inherit colors from the camera map. I don't have Box 3, so I have copied and pasted the example maxscript in "MAXScript Implementation and Animated Bitmap Sequences" from the link as mentioned above. It works well on first event that included the birth script and krakatoa option operator. Until I sent those particles to the next event, the colors of particles started to change to display color.

Here's the render shows colors switched in the next event.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_togwyrdcnSs/SipBVeAcxtI/AAAAAAAAASE/rCiOuxEQpBA/s1600-h/Switch_colors.jpg




Hopefully, Bobo will be appeared and answer my question. :)
Well, not only Bobo, anyone else know the solution please answer the question.
Your help will be much appreciated.

Sincerely,
Jordan

Bobo
06-06-2009, 02:38 PM
Assuming Pixel Aspect of 1, your Image aspect is 1.7777777, and 2/1.77777 is 1.125, not 1.25!
Also remember that the Aspect is used inside the Script Operator, so you would have to replace the 1.3333 found in the website example with 1.7777.

As for the color, you should be able to place the Script Operator in the global PF Source event next to the Render operator. This way it will apply to all particles regardless of the Event they are in. If you decide to instance the Script Operator to all events instead, make sure the Krakatoa Options operator is also instanced to all of them. The Krakatoa Options can also be added to the global event to affect the whole flow. Without it, Krakatoa won't know about copying the Vertex Color channel of PFlow into its own Color Channel.

jeonado
06-07-2009, 08:18 AM
As for the color, you should be able to place the Script Operator in the global PF Source event next to the Render operator. This way it will apply to all particles regardless of the Event they are in. If you decide to instance the Script Operator to all events instead, make sure the Krakatoa Options operator is also instanced to all of them. The Krakatoa Options can also be added to the global event to affect the whole flow. Without it, Krakatoa won't know about copying the Vertex Color channel of PFlow into its own Color Channel.

Thank you so much, Bobo. It works. I've Instanced the Script Operator to all events, I used to place it in the global PF Source event but it didn't work. (Well, maybe something wrong with my setting as usual).

toenexx
06-08-2009, 08:36 AM
Does anyone know if the current ver of Krakatoa works with 2010?

Thanks

jeonado
06-08-2009, 11:24 AM
Hi, Bobo. Sorry to bother you again.
Your solutions really work!!
Now the image aspect is works and the vertex color channel is works as well.
But the bitmap sequence doesn't move at all. Only the first frame of the bitmap sequence is used. I'm pretty sure that i've copied and pasted the correct maxscript which is the one works with animated bitmap sequence. Am I missing out something there?

Here's the render which indicates the problem.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_togwyrdcnSs/Siy6iOiEq3I/AAAAAAAAASM/faI2Zp_jJ98/s1600-h/problem.jpg
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_togwyrdcnSs/Siy6iOiEq3I/AAAAAAAAASM/faI2Zp_jJ98/s1600-h/problem.jpg)
Thanks once again for your patience.

Sincerely,
Jordan.

Bobo
06-08-2009, 01:57 PM
Hi, Bobo. Sorry to bother you again.
Your solutions really work!!
Now the image aspect is works and the vertex color channel is works as well.
But the bitmap sequence doesn't move at all. Only the first frame of the bitmap sequence is used. I'm pretty sure that i've copied and pasted the correct maxscript which is the one works with animated bitmap sequence. Am I missing out something there?


Out of curiosity, what version of Max are you running?
Also, what type of animation file are you using? IFL, AVI or MOV?

Bobo
06-08-2009, 03:07 PM
Does anyone know if the current ver of Krakatoa works with 2010?

Thanks

Not yet, but there are plans to recompile 1.1.2 for Max 2010.
The latest Beta was already recompiled for Max 2010 so we are gathering experience (some changes were necessary to make it work).

jeonado
06-08-2009, 03:53 PM
Out of curiosity, what version of Max are you running?
Also, what type of animation file are you using? IFL, AVI or MOV?


Hi. I'm using Max2009. Projection map is openEXR sequence converted to IFL.
(Heh, you just give me an idea to try to load it with EXR file again, instead of IFL. Does it matter?) My initial test with the EXR file and the example teapot exercise in frantic website worked fine.

* I saw quite a number of artists posted their "krakatoa car dispersion" animation in youtube. Mostly they are running krakatoa with max2008.

* Seems like krakatoa doesn't incorporate with 3dsmaxcmd.exe ( in most case is my setting problem? ) Here's the screenshot indicate the error.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_togwyrdcnSs/Si0zgY-LRqI/AAAAAAAAASU/R0FEBBGL7s0/s1600-h/3dsmaxcmd.jpg
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_togwyrdcnSs/Si0zgY-LRqI/AAAAAAAAASU/R0FEBBGL7s0/s1600-h/3dsmaxcmd.jpg)

Thanks for your patience.



Sincerely,
Jordan.

Bobo
06-08-2009, 04:37 PM
Hi. I'm using Max2009. Projection map is openEXR sequence converted to IFL.
(Heh, you just give me an idea to try to load it with EXR file again, instead of IFL. Does it matter?) My initial test with the EXR file and the example teapot exercise in frantic website worked fine.

* I saw quite a number of artists posted their "krakatoa car dispersion" animation in youtube. Mostly they are running krakatoa with max2008.

* Seems like krakatoa doesn't incorporate with 3dsmaxcmd.exe ( in most case is my setting problem? ) Here's the screenshot indicate the error.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_togwyrdcnSs/Si0zgY-LRqI/AAAAAAAAASU/R0FEBBGL7s0/s1600-h/3dsmaxcmd.jpg
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_togwyrdcnSs/Si0zgY-LRqI/AAAAAAAAASU/R0FEBBGL7s0/s1600-h/3dsmaxcmd.jpg)



You should be using an IFL for the animation script to work. It opens the IFL and sets the frame of it to the frame to render, but it sounds like it does not work for you (it did work for me when I wrote it).

I have never tried to launch Krakatoa with 3dsmaxcmd, we will have to look into this it seems. There could be something in the startup process that is different causing it to misbehave. Thanks for the report.

jeonado
06-09-2009, 10:52 AM
You should be using an IFL for the animation script to work. It opens the IFL and sets the frame of it to the frame to render, but it sounds like it does not work for you (it did work for me when I wrote it).


Thanks Bobo. Atleast I know that I'm working on the right direction. I going to re-setup the whole scene from scratch again. :)

joconnell
06-15-2009, 09:17 AM
Hi Bobo - I sent a mail to krakatoa sales and there's nothing back yet - I know it's not your area but are there folks away on holidays in the sales department or have I got the wrong address? I used krakatoa-sales at franticfilms dot com!

Bobo
06-17-2009, 08:23 AM
Hi Bobo - I sent a mail to krakatoa sales and there's nothing back yet - I know it's not your area but are there folks away on holidays in the sales department or have I got the wrong address? I used krakatoa-sales at franticfilms dot com!

The funny thing is I AM on vacation in Europe right now and today is the first day I am going online from my laptop somewhere over the roofs of Florence.
Your best bet is to always cc: krakatoa-support because Darcy would read that while sales is read only by the sales people which does not include the developers.

Glacierise
06-17-2009, 08:25 AM
Wow, cool! Have a great vacation dude!

Bobo
06-17-2009, 08:33 AM
Wow, cool! Have a great vacation dude!

Are you still in Germany? I will be in Sofia next two weeks.

Glacierise
06-17-2009, 08:42 AM
No, I finished my part in 2012 two weeks ago, I'm in Sofia now, let's meet!!! My contacts - +359899893815, hristo.velev[at]gmail.com, skype:Glacierise.

joconnell
06-17-2009, 07:25 PM
Cheers for that bobo - you're a gent!

Bobo
07-13-2009, 09:17 PM
In case you missed the announcement, there is a Krakatoa Competition going on:

http://support.franticvfx.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2547

grury
07-14-2009, 07:55 AM
Awesome!! I just started experimenting with some space scenes, hope it fits within one of the categories :)

Bobo
07-24-2009, 01:55 PM
Just a note that we have extended the deadline for the competition until after Siggraph to give you guys some more time. We got some pretty amazing entries, but there is still time to get yours, too!

JonathanFreisler
07-24-2009, 02:32 PM
Hey bobo. Comp sounds great, unfortunately I don't have too much free time to work on anything :cry:

Its really cool that you guys are running the comp and offering a cool prize. Should do more in the future :thumbsup:

Glacierise
07-24-2009, 02:45 PM
Great! I am just getting into that, I will still try to make it but cool to know I'd have more time if need be. I have a cool idea hehe

olipoli1
07-27-2009, 09:12 PM
Hi all

Lovely idea with the competition I hope I will be able to submit my version as well.

I think some things arent perfectly clear for me with ffx follow. Maybe I should ask about it on the pflow forum but Im sure you guys have used it many times successfully.

The setup is like this: I have an animated object emitting particles which particles serve as a source for the fume fx sim. I made another pflow which is emitting from the same object but it hase fumefx birth and a fume follow operator. I dont exactly understand how to place particles where the fume emission is going on so the new particles could exactly follow the fume emission. Or could you suggest a method for fumefx follow in general?

Also I had a little confusion about how to partition fume followed particles with krakatoa.
It was because the only way I could make particles follow the fume sim is if I run the fume sim and cache the particles. Which random numbers or seeds can krakatoa change in a cached pflow? Or maybe this is not the way to do it, im not sure.

Any suggestions realy appriciated!

Glacierise
07-28-2009, 06:58 AM
On the creation of particles - I like to use the cool FFX Birth op - lots of options there to make it look interesting. On the caching - try it out and you'll see :) It's interpolating velocities between voxels based on particle position, so don't worry, it looks great :)

olipoli1
07-28-2009, 09:02 AM
Thanks a lot, I was running a bit different fume sims (I changed the voxel size a little) and than made a few partitions from each. I have to dig into the ffx birth op a little deeper to fully understand how to control initial placement.

noouch
07-28-2009, 09:25 AM
I managed to convince my boss to buy a license, so I've been toying around with it for a couple of days now. It's an excellent tool so far, I've already used it on one project :)

Just wondering though, what's new in 1.1.3? I can't seem to find any release notes. And who would I contact about getting the beta version(s)?
*edit* read the post a page back, emailing support...

Bobo
07-28-2009, 01:54 PM
I managed to convince my boss to buy a license, so I've been toying around with it for a couple of days now. It's an excellent tool so far, I've already used it on one project :)

Just wondering though, what's new in 1.1.3? I can't seem to find any release notes. And who would I contact about getting the beta version(s)?
*edit* read the post a page back, emailing support...

Got your email, but here is some info for the general audience:

v1.1.3 was a direct recompile with Max 2010 support. I realized yesterday that some tweaks to the UI had sneaked into it though. The UI is a bit messy when seen in Max 2010 due to the new anti-aliased fonts. We have fixed this for 1.5.0, but not for 1.1.3 which was simply requested by customers and we had to deliver it for compatibility reasons.
There was a bug in the build of 1.1.3 posted last week due to some library mismatch but this was fixed yesterday and the download file was replaced. Be sure to get the new one or it will crash if you try to save Attenuation maps.

Krakatoa 1.5.0 is about to be unleashed at the unsuspecting public next week at Siggraph, so the Beta is kind of closing. We are in the process of killing last swarms of bugs and finishing the documentation and will update our site before the end of the week with all the cool (some even ice-cold) details. We might even show some of it at the Autodesk stage as part of our presentation (company name is changing to Prime Focus, so don't look for Frantic Films anymore). AFAIK, Autodesk will be streaming the presentations live on The Area for those who cannot make it to New Orleans.

In short, since the temp. licenses expire on August 12 and everyone with a valid support contract will be getting the new version and new license file around that time, it might be worth waiting two weeks to get the final build, spending the time until then drooling over the 1.5.0 documentation ;)

SoLiTuDe
07-28-2009, 08:15 PM
Krakatoa 1.5.0 is about to be unleashed at the unsuspecting public next week at Siggraph, so the Beta is kind of closing.

I'm scared!!! :eek: Seriously though, 1.5 is lookin' great on every front. You guys will be very happy with Prime Focus / Bobo has brought to the table.

P.S. Hey Bobo, I'm at the Vancouver office! :wavey:

Bobo
07-30-2009, 02:59 AM
I really think you guys should check this out (and in HD):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLA8OxVwC9c

Enjoy! (I know I did)

Glacierise
07-30-2009, 07:04 AM
That was spectacular and very fun to watch! I feel challenged now :)

jigu
07-30-2009, 09:33 AM
Those are some really nice tests... fantastic. Thanks for posting.

Wish I could get more time to play with KCE in 1.5.

th3ta
07-30-2009, 06:02 PM
I'm having issues getting Max 2008 x64 and Max 2010 x64 recognize my license server. The 32bit versions of Max recognize it fine, and Krakatoa starts right up.

But When I try it in either of the 64bit apps, I get this error :

"The License server returned a networking error. See your system administrator for
assitance."

Both the 32bit and the 64bit versions of Max are on the same workstation which is running Windows Vista 64bit.

Has anyone else had similar issues?

Krakatoa is version 1.1.3.36616

dharrison
07-30-2009, 08:05 PM
That's a weird issue with the FLEXlm dialog in 64bit. I haven't figured out exactly WHY it happens, but I'm 99% sure its because of the 32bit vs. 64bit registry in Windows. This topic is covered in the troubleshooting section of our documentation. Try this page: http://www.franticfilms.com/software/support/krakatoa/troubleshooting.php#Failed_setting_license_server_inside_3DS_Max

Cheers,
Darcy

th3ta
07-30-2009, 08:47 PM
That's a weird issue with the FLEXlm dialog in 64bit. I haven't figured out exactly WHY it happens, but I'm 99% sure its because of the 32bit vs. 64bit registry in Windows. This topic is covered in the troubleshooting section of our documentation. Try this page: http://www.franticfilms.com/software/support/krakatoa/troubleshooting.php#Failed_setting_license_server_inside_3DS_Max




Thanks Darcy, that worked. Just had to manually add the 64bit key to my registry. TY!

Bobo
07-30-2009, 11:14 PM
We have updated the Krakatoa Competition info on our Support Forum
http://support.franticvfx.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2547 (http://support.franticvfx.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2548)

In short, the deadline is now October 1st, there is a change to the email address to send stuff to, and most importantly the prize is now a lot bigger!

Here is the full text of the Press Release:



Prime Focus Software is pleased to announce the Krakatoa Image Competition for SIGGRAPH 2009. We are now accepting entries from all Krakatoa fanatics and users alike using any version of this software. Entrants can obtain a free evaluation license of Krakatoa by filling out the license request form at http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/products/krakatoa/download/

Both still images or animations that used Krakatoa as a major component in the final result of a commercial or personal project will be accepted. (post processing and compositing with other render elements from other renderers are acceptable, but please note the details in the submission).

All valid entries submitted will be reviewed by our panel of judges including Academy Award-winning Visual Effects Supervisor Mike Fink, president and senior VFX supervisor of Prime Focus VFX, Chris Bond, and Krakatoa Developer, Bobo Petrov who will determine the winner of this years’ competition.

Please note, top entries will be considered for inclusion on our website or other related promotional material and be fully credited for their work. We will require your written permission to use the material for Krakatoa marketing purposes

Prizes
The winning entry winning will receive a Prime Focus Software bundle worth $2,500 to be used for either commercial or personal use. This package will include one Standard Bundle of Krakatoa (1 workstation license and 2 render nodes), 5 render nodes of Deadline, Prime Focus’ popular Render Farm Management Software and 1 workstation and render node license for Awake a Plug-in pack for Eyeon’s Fusion 5.

Theme
“Earth, Wind, Air and Fire” All Participants must submit an image or animation that follows this year’s nature theme. Artists are encouraged to explore the many possibilities within this category and create something as realistically looking as possible.

Deadline
All entries must be emailed to siggraph-contest@primefocusworld.com on or before Thursday October 1, 2009.

Preferred submissions Formats
Still Images - OpenEXR or another lossless format
Animation - QuickTime using Motion JPEG A codec or uncompressed image sequences

If you have any questions concerning the details listed above please contact Deirdre O’Reilly, Software Sales Manager at krakatoa-sales@primefocusworld.com (http://forums.cgsociety.org/krakatoa-sales@primefocusworld.com)

JohnnyRandom
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
Bumping it up a notch :) Must make the week a few days longer...if think 9 days a week should do the trick, four at work, four for particle play, and one day off :D

Bobo
07-31-2009, 07:05 PM
Bumping it up a notch :) Must make the week a few days longer...if think 9 days a week should do the trick, four at work, four for particle play, and one day off :D

What is the day off for?!?

Seriously, are you coming to Siggraph this year?

JohnnyRandom
07-31-2009, 07:40 PM
What is the day off for?!?

LOL, Take my dog skiing and swimming :)

Seriously, are you coming to Siggraph this year?

Yes, apparently, I was just asked this morning to do a couple Box#2 Basics sessions at your Booth, so be nice to me :D

Glacierise
07-31-2009, 07:49 PM
http://exlevel.com/

Imagine what this will be able to do, with Krakatoa! Add some FFX/Krak firestorms and a cold wind freezing the flames, mmmmm! Dudes bring the competition!

Bobo
07-31-2009, 09:27 PM
Yes, apparently, I was just asked this morning to do a couple Box#2 Basics sessions at your Booth, so be nice to me :D

LOL, my schedule had Oleg listed there... You will be welcome!

JohnnyRandom
07-31-2009, 10:00 PM
Really looking forward to being there :)

PsychoSilence
08-01-2009, 02:52 AM
Oh,oleg is ramping up the promo! Nice :)

friedpixels
08-01-2009, 05:55 AM
wow bobo that test looks fantastic! i'm in the same boat with jigu, wish i had more time to play with this!

JohnnyRandom
08-01-2009, 06:18 AM
I really think you guys should check this out (and in HD):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLA8OxVwC9c

Enjoy! (I know I did)

Don't know how that one slipped by but... BAM! that is some fine work to make anyone feel like a particle rookie!

Bobo
08-01-2009, 02:50 PM
wow bobo that test looks fantastic! i'm in the same boat with jigu, wish i had more time to play with this!

The test is by Matthias Mueller:
http://matthiasm.cgsociety.org/gallery/

His animations were so inspiring we actually asked him to contribute an image to the Krakatoa 1.5 onesheet we will be giving away at Siggraph. His image not only made the onesheet, it is the TILTLE IMAGE of it where the dissolving Mini used to be in previous years (frame 46 of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf56V2s9P1o )

YouTube (toghether with CG Society) is a very powerful medium to make yourself visible.
In fact, we have made specific changes to the final build of Krakatoa related to this.
Will tell more what I can (I know I sound like Ken, but that's how new releases work).

MatthiasM
08-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Some of the biggest guys appreciate my testing videos, thats too cool :D
realy motivating thank you

if you want to see some more tests:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq4IAaNlris&hd=1

Bobo
08-01-2009, 05:54 PM
Some of the biggest guys appreciate my testing videos, thats too cool :D
realy motivating thank you

if you want to see some more tests:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq4IAaNlris&hd=1


Love the hairy-looking trail in the second segment.
I would suggest trying to lower the density of the tip particles which will result in significant tapering of the "hair" - see the examples here
http://www.franticvfx.com/software/support/krakatoa/krakatoaparticleostream_maxscript_value.php#HairPRT

Assuming that you are emitting a particle orthogonal to the axis of the main trail which then spawns the "hair" particles, you would have to calculate a gradient from the position the parent hair particle started to each spawned hair particle's position. (This might require some clever Box #3 or MAXScript operator coding though).

entrancea
08-01-2009, 09:00 PM
Hey Guys.....back after a very long while....Hope ya'll are doing well.....Got a question.....Say I had two spheres...One Gold and one Chrome.....Now I have done a shape morph from the Gold sphere to the silver one with particles.....But my question would be how to map the shader of the gold ball on the particles in Krakatoa and the when it morphs into the Silver ball it taking the shader of the silver sphere?

Hope my question is understandable.....:D

Thanks a lot in advance guys,
Cheers and wish you all a great weekend......:beer:

entrancea
http://www.linkedin.com/in/entrancea

Bobo
08-01-2009, 10:52 PM
Hey Guys.....back after a very long while....Hope ya'll are doing well.....Got a question.....Say I had two spheres...One Gold and one Chrome.....Now I have done a shape morph from the Gold sphere to the silver one with particles.....But my question would be how to map the shader of the gold ball on the particles in Krakatoa and the when it morphs into the Silver ball it taking the shader of the silver sphere?


Krakatoa supports the Blend Material, so if you have the gold and chrome materials loaded in the two slots of the Blend, you can control their blending by a Vertex Color Map which gives you PER PARTICLE control over which one of the two (or what mix of the two) to show on each particle.

Now all you need is a good control value written to the Color (or any of the 99 UVW) channel.

You would need to use either a Script Operator or a Box #3 DataOp in PFlow to calculate the gradient value to be written to the control channel. The value would be [0,0,0] while the particles are golden state, the when the particles move you will have to increase the value gradually to [1,1,1] to reach the chrome state. This could be based on the age of particles (time based gradient) or on the distance from the target point (space-based gradient).

Krakatoa 1.5.0 adds some additional tools to deal with particle channels, but it is totally doable in 1.1.x if you have a bit Script or Data Operator knowledge.

MatthiasM
08-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Love the hairy-looking trail in the second segment.
I would suggest trying to lower the density of the tip particles which will result in significant tapering of the "hair" - see the examples here
http://www.franticvfx.com/software/support/krakatoa/krakatoaparticleostream_maxscript_value.php#HairPRT

Assuming that you are emitting a particle orthogonal to the axis of the main trail which then spawns the "hair" particles, you would have to calculate a gradient from the position the parent hair particle started to each spawned hair particle's position. (This might require some clever Box #3 or MAXScript operator coding though).

ye you assume right, however i did not yet get into scripting. I think Box#3 would add a lot more possibilitys too but i dont have this plugin.

entrancea
08-02-2009, 05:45 PM
Hey Bobo,
Thanks for the suggestion....I know what you mean to say.....That in order to get the material information transferred I have to do it with an age based script or so to speak wire in Box3 to make it do the age based calculation......But one more thing I would like to know is that say if I rendered the objects separately..I mean render the gold and silver and used those renders to camera map it onto the particles then how would you advice me to proceed?Because the particles would disperse from the gold sphere to the silver sphere.....Would this be possible with camera projection mapping?

Thanks a lot Bobo,
Cheers,
entrancea

Bobo
08-02-2009, 08:24 PM
Hey Bobo,
Thanks for the suggestion....I know what you mean to say.....That in order to get the material information transferred I have to do it with an age based script or so to speak wire in Box3 to make it do the age based calculation......But one more thing I would like to know is that say if I rendered the objects separately..I mean render the gold and silver and used those renders to camera map it onto the particles then how would you advice me to proceed?Because the particles would disperse from the gold sphere to the silver sphere.....Would this be possible with camera projection mapping?

Thanks a lot Bobo,
Cheers,
entrancea


Render a camera mapping of the golden sphere and apply it to Material 1.
Render a camera mapping of the chrome sphere and apply it to Material 2.
You will have to store the world positions of the particles on the golden sphere into one UVW channel and use those to map the Material 1 projection.
You will also have to store the world TARGET positions of the particles on the chrome sphere (where they will be at the end) in another UVW channel and use that for the camera mapping in Material 2.
You then put Mat 1 and 2 into the Blend material and do the blending by a 3rd UVW channel defined as explained already. This should blend the mapping from the golden to the chrome projection as the particles move from the one sphere to the other.

th3ta
08-03-2009, 08:16 PM
I'm having trouble just getting the regular camera mapping working...

I don't have BOX#3, so I've been trying the method where you save out a .PRT, then load it back in via the Krakatoa File Birth and File Update nodes.

When I load it back in, I can see the particles in the shape of my original object, but it just renders black. I can't see my original material that I saved out the .PRT with.

Any thoughts?

Under "Channel Setup" in the Krakatoa File Update node, I've unchecked Position, and have ID and Color checked. Do I need to load my original image somewhere else?

Als
08-05-2009, 05:37 PM
Any news about the maya plugin ? :rolleyes:

:curious:


Als

Bobo
08-06-2009, 12:16 AM
Any news about the maya plugin ?

Nothing this Siggraph. Who knows about the next one...

Als
08-11-2009, 11:35 AM
If you need alpha testers, please count me in...
Or if you would like to add more info about it... ;)

Thanks


Als

grury
08-18-2009, 10:00 PM
Hi guys,

Posted this over on the PrimeFocus forum, but its a rather odd problem so I hope someone came across the same error and has a clue how to sort it out.

I'm getting a error when trying to render a Fume grid:

get_fume_fx_particle_istream() - Memory error during load of....

Using the latest build of Krakatoa 1.5 and FumeFx 1.2, both on Max 2009 and 2010.



It renders fine is scanline and I do have 8Gb of RAM and running 64bit, also just testing with very simple Fume setupsThanks

JohnnyRandom
08-18-2009, 10:54 PM
The only time I have run into that is when there is no fume sim data for the current render frame.

I see you already got an official answer though :D

grury
08-21-2009, 09:52 AM
Unfortunatly havent been able to figure it out yet. Thats one weird issue.

RFX
08-21-2009, 04:46 PM
The demo for Krakatoa 1.5 is out, and wow is this awesome, really digging the new stuff, too bad the watermark is horrendous :-)

http://rickfx.com/wispy_ball_v4.mp4

Bobo
08-21-2009, 05:30 PM
The demo for Krakatoa 1.5 is out, and wow is this awesome, really digging the new stuff, too bad the watermark is horrendous :-)

http://rickfx.com/wispy_ball_v4.mp4

Well, we give you pretty much ALL features for free in the Evaluation mode.
You can either render at 480x360 or less or pay $1000 :)

Btw, we are already working on a 1.5.1 version to clean up some bugs and add some COOL new features ;)

RFX
08-21-2009, 05:36 PM
Well, we give you pretty much ALL features for free in the Evaluation mode.
You can either render at 480x360 or less or pay $1000 :)

Btw, we are already working on a 1.5.1 version to clean up some bugs and add some COOL new features ;)

Oh yah, I've no problem with having a watermark, I wasn't sure which rez was the max one to use, I'll have to give that a try now, got used too much to the Houdini apprentice watermark, hah.

And I'll definitely be looking into purchasing soon!

Bobo
08-22-2009, 09:46 PM
Just a note that we have updated the Krakatoa online help with a chapter dedicated to the use of the Krakatoa SkinWrap World Space Modifier which wasn't sufficiently documented and caused some confusion.
In short, the KSW does exactly the opposite of the Box #2 particle skinning - it lets you deform particle clouds or mesh vertices using an animated geometry object (for example a skinned character).

Here is the link
(http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/krakatoa_skinwrap_particle_and_mesh_deformations.php)

RFX
08-22-2009, 11:12 PM
Some more Krakatoa fun! (http://rickfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/wispy_v6.mp4)

JohnnyRandom
08-24-2009, 01:17 AM
Just a note that we have updated the Krakatoa online help with a chapter dedicated to the use of the Krakatoa SkinWrap World Space Modifier which wasn't sufficiently documented and caused some confusion.
In short, the KSW does exactly the opposite of the Box #2 particle skinning - it lets you deform particle clouds or mesh vertices using an animated geometry object (for example a skinned character).

Here is the link
(http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/krakatoa_skinwrap_particle_and_mesh_deformations.php)

Admittedly, I was one of those that was confused, great explanation/breakdowns. hhmmm box#2

Thanks for putting the time and effort into it :)



Nice fumage;)

Bobo
08-24-2009, 05:48 PM
Admittedly, I was one of those that was confused, great explanation/breakdowns.

Thanks!

I just added a Quicktime movie showing one a second animation of the Fu-Lum with Voxel Sizes of 0.15, 1.0 and 3.0.

http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/downloads/Krakatoa_SkinWrap_Particles_VoxelRender.mov

grury
08-27-2009, 08:37 AM
Finally now that I managed to get Fume to render with Krakatoa, I started playing with KCM, altho I havent managed to get anywhere so far, been following the help files but altho I seem to have follow all the steps I havent been able to figure out how to render the fire or the Fluid Mapping.

I have uploaded a test file, would really apreciate if someone could open it up and point me in the right direction.

http://www.grury.me.uk/chan_test.max

Cheers.

JohnnyRandom
08-27-2009, 03:43 PM
Fire is tricky for sure, the Density setting is very important, Smoke populates the density channel but it also unknowingly controls the density of the fire, I kind of wish this were different (since for instance, burning gasoline and other clean flammables have very little smoke but really dense fire).

The simplest/basic approach is to add a KCM to a Fire channel enabled PRT loader.

In the default KCM change the color output to Emission.

Add a new input and switch it to the Fire channel.

Add a new vector channel, pick a color.

Add a new multiply and wire the input and the vector to the multiply inputs and the multiply output to the Emission output.

Enable Emission in the Krakatoa>Main Controls panel and Render, notice the fire isn't very bright, adjust the X vector color value to something like 3.0 or similar and render again. Fire is brighter.

Some great examples HERE (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/fumefx_direct_rendering.php) including the one I just described.

grury
08-27-2009, 03:50 PM
Thanks John, for sure will have to spend a lot more time experimenting with those.
I did follow those exemples, but all I could get was the smoke. I didnt even manage to change the color of the smoke through KCM.

Cheers

JohnnyRandom
08-27-2009, 03:57 PM
Gimme a few and I will check out your scene :) I need to update to the latest version.

Also I posted a scene HERE (http://support.na.primefocusworld.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3140#p11600) that has the fire channel enabled, you may want to lower the fume spacing a tiny bit to speed up the sim and obvoiously you'll have to reset all of the input/output paths.

EDIT: BTW what max version is that file?

JohnnyRandom
08-27-2009, 04:20 PM
Ah, yep I tried that too in hopes that it would work, KCM's don't support FumeFX objects. You need to drop the KCM on a PRT loader or PRT Volume.

The simplified steps i take:

Sim your fume

Krakatoa direct fume save to PRT with the appropriate channels

Create and Load PRT

grury
08-27-2009, 04:55 PM
Oh, wasnt aware of that, I guess I didnt quite follow the help through :)
Will have a look at it tomorrow in the office.
That my file was created with Max2010.

Thanks John.

JohnnyRandom
08-27-2009, 05:05 PM
No worries, I found out the same way you did, trial by error :D

Although from my perspective (and yours and I am sure a few others too) it would seem natural to drop a KCM on a FumeFX object, simply for the fact that you have the ability to do a direct fume rendering from within Krakatoa.

Bobo
08-27-2009, 11:07 PM
No worries, I found out the same way you did, trial by error :D

Although from my perspective (and yours and I am sure a few others too) it would seem natural to drop a KCM on a FumeFX object, simply for the fact that you have the ability to do a direct fume rendering from within Krakatoa.

You could create a Global Channels Override and do all your tweaking there without saving to disk. The Global Overrides work on ANY particles, even the FumeFX ones.
The local KCMs don't work because right now the base object is responsible for running them, and the base FumeFX is not aware of them. We plan to address this in the future by adding a dedicated object that will turn the FumeFX into a particle cloud in the viewport, including the ability to deform it as any other Krakatoa system and add local KCMs.

Btw, the help says

"
Fire



In order to visualize the Fire channel which is acquired from the FumeFX simulation if available,

the >Use Emission option was turned on and
a global Krakatoa Channels Modifier was assigned with the following flow:"

I guess I should make the word "global" bold and explain that it means a Global Channels Override...

JohnnyRandom
08-30-2009, 07:25 PM
ahh, the beauty of Global Overrides :)

tasiek
08-31-2009, 12:30 PM
Hi Guys!

I'm testing Krakatoa 1.5 release with TP3. I'm having problems with rendering particles with vertex color applied in TP3. In scanline colors are fine( each particle has proper color), but I don't know how to achieve it in Krakatoa. Where should I look for it?

I'm still digging through manual....

Thanks!

Bobo
08-31-2009, 01:29 PM
Hi Guys!

I'm testing Krakatoa 1.5 release with TP3. I'm having problems with rendering particles with vertex color applied in TP3. In scanline colors are fine( each particle has proper color), but I don't know how to achieve it in Krakatoa. Where should I look for it?

I'm still digging through manual....

Thanks!

TP stores UV coordinates and color data into the mesh of the particle and since Krakatoa does not render meshes and the TP SDK does not provide any access to the mesh data, we cannot directly support that. The workaround we implemented is to copy the color data you want into a Data Channel named "Color".

The same applies to a Float Data Channel called "Density" which could be used to control the density per particle.

Note that these two were already supported in v1.1.2. In v1.5.0, we support ANY named Data Channel of type Float, Color or Point3 from TP Groups. You can then add these named channels to the Channels rollout in Krakatoa if the names do not exist yet and thus save them to PRT files or load and manipulate them inside MagmaFlows. This way, you can now pass ANY sort of data from TP to Krakatoa. Of course, if you name your Data Channels in TP according to the Krakatoa naming conventions, the data will work directly in Krakatoa, e.g. a Color channel named "Absorption" in TP will directly control the Absorption in Krakatoa if >Use Absorption is checked.

Another example, if you create a Data Channel of type Point3 in TP and call it "TextureCoord", Krakatoa would load it as Mapping Channel 1 and you would be able to apply texture maps using UVW 1 to your TP particles inside Krakatoa.

If you want to store some custom value that Krakatoa does not support, for example the number of neighbor particles or something, you could add a Data Channel called anything, for example "tasiek", to your TP Groups and also add the same named channel with the same type to the Channels rollout of Krakatoa. That channel will become visible in the Input nodes of MagmaFlow and you could use it to modify other channels during rendering, or you could add that channel to the list of channels to save when caching the particles to PRT sequences.


Hope this helps.

NOTE: Krakatoa 1.5.0 does NOT support TP3 under Max 2010 yet, but we received the Max 2010 TP SDK from Cebas last week and will recompile Krakatoa to add support for 2010 as soon as possible.

seb-desmet
09-02-2009, 02:30 PM
Hi,

Is it a way to render different density per event for the particles ?
or different density per prt loader ???

I saw in the prt loader there is some setting for rendering
but I can't find the help for those settings

like for "density->mapping #" or "assume denisty of 1.0"

thanks for your help

tasiek
09-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Bobo - Thx for fast rply, but I'm still missing something. Here is screenshot with my problem.

As far as I understand the workflow, if I add a data channel node, called "Color", then Krakatoa will read particle color from this node/channel.

Check the image, maybe there is something worng.

Thx

[/url][url="http://img168.imageshack.us/i/colorchannel.jpg/"]http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6519/colorchannel.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/i/colorchannel.jpg/)

Bobo
09-03-2009, 02:20 AM
Hi,

Is it a way to render different density per event for the particles ?
or different density per prt loader ???

I saw in the prt loader there is some setting for rendering
but I can't find the help for those settings

like for "density->mapping #" or "assume denisty of 1.0"

thanks for your help

We removed the Density to Mapping Channel option from the PRT Loader because it can be done now with a Krakatoa Channels Modifier (MagmaFlow node editor).

There are many ways to tweak the density per loader or even per particle:
*The Visibility channel of the PRT Loader scales the Density.
*KCM set to Density can set the density of each particle individually
*Material's Opacity channel (including Maps) scales the Density
*The Lighting Pass Density can be modulated per Light using the Shadow Density value (does not work in Voxel mode yet)

So if you are rendering a PFlow, just add a different material in each even with a different Opacity value.
If you are rendering PRT Loaders, add a KCM on each one and set the Density to whatever you like.

Bobo
09-03-2009, 02:35 AM
Bobo - Thx for fast rply, but I'm still missing something. Here is screenshot with my problem.

As far as I understand the workflow, if I add a data channel node, called "Color", then Krakatoa will read particle color from this node/channel.

Check the image, maybe there is something worng.



At first look, everything appears to be ok.
The main question is - do you have lights in the scene? Krakatoa does not support default lighting, so you either need a light, or you have to copy the Color into the Emission (self-illumination) channel using a KCM and enable >Use Emission. (Obviously, you could simply rename the Data Channel from "Color" to "Emission" in TP and it will write there, or add a second Data Channel to populate both Color and Emission with the same data)

seb-desmet
09-03-2009, 04:03 PM
We removed the Density to Mapping Channel option from the PRT Loader because it can be done now with a Krakatoa Channels Modifier (MagmaFlow node editor).

There are many ways to tweak the density per loader or even per particle:
*The Visibility channel of the PRT Loader scales the Density.
*KCM set to Density can set the density of each particle individually
*Material's Opacity channel (including Maps) scales the Density
*The Lighting Pass Density can be modulated per Light using the Shadow Density value (does not work in Voxel mode yet)

So if you are rendering a PFlow, just add a different material in each even with a different Opacity value.
If you are rendering PRT Loaders, add a KCM on each one and set the Density to whatever you like.

those settings work with krakatoa 1.1.2 ???

what is KCM ?


Thx

Bobo
09-03-2009, 04:25 PM
those settings work with krakatoa 1.1.2 ???

what is KCM ?

Thx

Everything except for the KCM works in v1.1.2.
KCM stands for "Krakatoa Channels Modifier" and is what we use to control and modify particle data channels in v1.5.x:
http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/introduction_to_magmaflow.php

CapitanRed
09-03-2009, 05:59 PM
the last two days I had to go to military, and as I knew I would have plenty of time to waste there, I printed out the new features and tutorials about the new stuff in krakatoa 1.5.
While reading, I must say I got faster heart beat. I couldn't wait to get home to install it and try it out.
I really like what you guys added and improved. very well done!!!

just want to say thanks at this place :)

I hope cebas will see it like I do and finally add a readPRTfiles operator in TP.

Bobo
09-04-2009, 12:14 AM
While reading, I must say I got faster heart beat.

I know the feeling :)
Version 1.5.1 containing a large number of bug fixes will be released next week (due to the long Labour Day weekend in Canada), and v1.5.2 is in the works with some cool new features!

seb-desmet
09-04-2009, 08:26 AM
thanx for your help Bobo

Do u know if there is a way to render particle cache per emitter ? All in the same time,
to avoid to render caches serveral time for each emitter ?

thx

Bobo
09-04-2009, 01:33 PM
thanx for your help Bobo

Do u know if there is a way to render particle cache per emitter ? All in the same time,
to avoid to render caches serveral time for each emitter ?

thx

I don't quite understand the question. Can you please reformulate it, or explain in steps what you are doing, what is happening and what you want to be happening?

RFX
09-04-2009, 02:46 PM
Hey Bobo, I'm using the Demo version of Krakatoa and I'm having some trouble rendering some fumefx stuff, I'd turn on the option of rendering fume, and every time I hit render I get this error:

http://rickfx.com/krakatoa_error.jpg

Not sure why it's grabbing my fume cache path like that when it should be "_BIG_v1.0123.fxd"

It's strange since I can see my fume sim in fume and I can even render out the stuff using Vray.

P.S. I'm rendering through volumetric rendering too.

Bobo
09-04-2009, 03:03 PM
Hey Bobo, I'm using the Demo version of Krakatoa and I'm having some trouble rendering some fumefx stuff, I'd turn on the option of rendering fume, and every time I hit render I get this error:

http://rickfx.com/krakatoa_error.jpg

Not sure why it's grabbing my fume cache path like that when it should be "_BIG_v1.0123.fxd"

It's strange since I can see my fume sim in fume and I can even render out the stuff using Vray.

P.S. I'm rendering through volumetric rendering too.


This is a bug in the Fume SDK. If you have a period inside the file name, it fails to load when called outside of Fume.
We cannot do anything about it. You might have to talk to the Fume developers about it. (Truth be told, WE might have to do that ;))

For now, just avoid using . inside the file name except for delimiting the extension if you intend to use the simulation with Krakatoa. Use some file renaming utility to fix the existing paths and try again.

RFX
09-04-2009, 03:05 PM
This is a bug in the Fume SDK. If you have a period inside the file name, it fails to load.
We cannot do anything about it. You might have to talk to the Fume developers about it.

For now, just avoid using . inside the file name except for delimiting the extension.

D'oh! That's a fun bug to have.

Now where's my renaming tool :D

Thanks for the heads up Bobo!

sherard
09-07-2009, 11:12 PM
check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQdV7APzHGE

jigu
09-08-2009, 05:14 AM
Good work. It looks like you mirrored image in post to make shadow.

To make the ground shadow in Krakatoa(save attenuation maps), You can use Krakatoa shadow on Geometry utility.

Here is the tutorial (http://software.primefocusworld.com/software/support/krakatoa/shadows_on_geometry_tutorial.php) you can follow.