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View Full Version : Game art Comp #3 :ckaos@om :Chrono Trigger : Robo


ckaos@om
02-17-2003, 02:49 PM
well , not sure this fits the contest context exactly but here goes :
This is Robo, the famous steampunkish robot from the now almost ten year old Square game Chrono Trigger.
Design by A.Toriyama if i'm not mistaken.
This is the concept art i used :
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/robo2.jpg

I hope it's ok, but i got a litlle crazy and roughed out almost the whole model last night ( i don't get it, i normally never work this fast,...)
so here goes :
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/progress.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/progress3.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/progress6.jpg
some other pictures of the W.I.P can be found here:
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/robo.html

ckaos@om
02-17-2003, 02:52 PM
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/progress9.jpg

the rushed out version, with stand in arms, and all but optimised polycount 3400, but plenty of room for improvement : ie 8 sided tubings etc ...
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/finished%20rough.jpg


a question to Mr Happy Pants : would it be alright to post the model in other forums to get more feedback ?

tpe
02-17-2003, 03:02 PM
excelent concept and model, love the character.

Did it get decided how many polies we can use? as almost 1/3 seems like quite a few to remove.

Looking forward to more

tpe

ckaos@om
02-17-2003, 03:08 PM
From what i read 2500 is the max polycount, so i have a lot of optimising left, but if i stick exactly to the original concept art, ie ( only one hand)i am almost exactly at the right polycount.
Thanks for the encouragment!
good to see so many people from Polycount here :)

MrHappyPants
02-17-2003, 03:25 PM
whoa! thats coming along great! no problem with posting elsewhere.. get all the feedback you need!

one little comment.. I would remove those alpha polys used for the grill on the front. the model would be more efficient painting the grillvents in the texture. nice work!

Krystman
02-17-2003, 06:20 PM
Whow, I shure are ahead! This is good, maybe this time some people make it till the deadline :D

Model looks good and I like the franchise you have chosen. Chrono Trigger rocks! :buttrock:

ckaos@om
02-18-2003, 12:34 PM
*update*
Worked a litlle more on it yesterday : chopped of quite a few polies and got it down to 2510 :)
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/Wip2.JPG
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/Wip2-back.JPG
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/Wip2side.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/Wip2front.JPG

>Mr HappyPants : thanks ! About the grill vents : you'r right : it's more effficient, but somehow it seems a bit flat without it .. i'll scrap them for now ..but you never know...
>>krystman : Thanks a lot :) But if i make it to the deadline i will be the first surprised ..i HATE unwraping more than anything...
And yep the Chrono series rocks :buttrock:

i will also post my personal concepts on Robo soon since i am not sticking 100% with the original (hence the 2 hands etc..)

come on people please give me some heavy c&c !!

tpe
02-18-2003, 01:08 PM
Blody hell that was fast :) Amazing.

Looks like you have some alphaed polies in there too. On the dino they kept dissapearing end on (as they had no thickness), have a look at the attachment as i dont have the model at work, what i could do to make them visable from any angle just make sure they wern't flat so as they can even be seen from the end (the second part of the pick). I dont think it will really be an answer for your model. I would be tempted to chop your alpha planes up through the vertical and maybe twice through the vertical and make sure that the edges follow the wrinkles in the material, that way you could get more detail in and still stop them from dissapearing when viewed from the side.

tpe

monotypic
02-18-2003, 04:01 PM
**in his best lilo voice** IIIIIIIIIIIIIII LIKE EM!

MrHappyPants
02-18-2003, 04:07 PM
i thought about the hanging cloth banners too.. probably look fine but if it is distracting see them disappearing you could either add more divisions to each sqaure and pull out the middle to look rounded.. then stick the corners into the mesh so you would never see the thiness

or.. you could cut up the squares into strips of 4 polys running vertical... think dangling strips making up one square. then in an engine just tag those polys to face the z axis of the camera in the engine. (never did it in a 3d program, sure you can somehow). it will look like the strips have thickness as they always FACE the camera. this technique works great in games, very efficient.

ckaos@om
02-18-2003, 09:15 PM
Wow thanks for the incredible feedback !!

-Tpe & MrHappyPants : thanks for the explanation and pics, clarifies a lot and will be very usefull, i frankly had not even thought about the problem with those planes, but now that you both mention it i think i'll go with the "chop planes up"option. When exporting the mesh out from Wings 3d i reallised i actualy was below the 2500 polycount .. leaves some room!
I had already thought about the "always facing" option, but i have no idea how to do it in a 3d app and not in an engine.

btw i can't believe i got compliments from 'the' Tpe :) lurking in the dark on polycount may have had it's use after all :bounce:

-monotypic :thanks * lol *

ckaos@om
02-20-2003, 12:18 AM
*update again*
Ok here i go again :
to get the hands , arms and finger to bend correctly, and to cut the alpha planes up ( thanks for the suggestion again) , had to chop off a lot of polies everywhere.
Which brings me to a question : originally, and in all my high poly models, all the piping etc is just made out of extruded cylinders scaled up/down where recesses/protusions are needed.
To save on polycount i split those up into multiple objects : is this a good thing to do ? Or should i try to keep it one continuous mesh?
here are some pictures to show what i mean :
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/tubings.html

the model itself:
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/2Wip1.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/2wip2.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/2wipside.jpg

oh and here is a small animation (130k) : just moved limbs around, not rigged or anything, just for fun : since i rendered it at a friends' ( haven't got max myself) there might be some problems with the file : just tell me !
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/roboanimtest1.avi

wanzai
02-20-2003, 11:15 AM
Of course it's always a good idea to save polies :) Unless they're any good for texturing or, more importantly, deforming. How much does Robo weight now?

Nice model anyway. I like it by now already. I beat that game a few times and practically grew up with Toriyama's style. Can't wait to see the texture!

MrHappyPants
02-20-2003, 06:00 PM
yeah dont waste poly's with continuing meshs.. the only time its necessary is when z buffering is giving the engine flickers.. which rarely happens with a pipe stuck in a poly.. lookin good!

ckaos@om
02-23-2003, 01:40 PM
*yet another update*
almost final mesh.

http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/3Wip1.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/3Wip2.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/3Wip3.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/3Wip4.jpg

the last one was a test in max4 , but i'll be using lightwave, i won't be able to finish very fast, since i have to go to a friends' place to use LW..if onyl i'd be able to find a good french lightwave resseler ...

-Wanzai, MrHappyPants :thanks , and thanks for the info as well , was able to cut down even more on polies .
Along the same line i have another geomerty question : should i delete the "cap"/end polies, wich always remain inside of other polies ? After asking around , this seems to be game engine specific : for example it's ok in q3, not in UT etc ...So the question is what should i do with the mesh within this competition ??
This is the last step before ending the modeling part (even though i have already started a few unwrapping and animation test, without a final mesh i won't get far.

MrHappyPants
02-23-2003, 10:22 PM
you can do either.. i dont think anyones going to be that nitpicky with the judging..

model looks really nice.. weve got some great pieces for this comp

ckaos@om
02-28-2003, 05:39 PM
Hi again everybody : i'm currently trying to finish the uv mapping, and i'm quite stuck : what is the best when unwraping cylindrical or semi spherical objects , between these two methods : or perhaps if there are better methods to do this, please tell me :

http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/wip-robo/unwrapquestion1.jpg

modeling-man
02-28-2003, 06:48 PM
eh I just planar map just about everything unless its obviously a sphere or a cylinder, then just take a couple seconds uniformly pulling out the points and trying my best to line everything up using a checker map.

I've noticed its way easier to draw a straight line with a small bit of stretching then trying to draw the perfect slanted line to match the UVmap.

hope that made sense.
B

MrHappyPants
03-02-2003, 10:43 AM
im not sure what you were trying to map there.. if its a cylinder then i try to uv unwrap it in halves and connect them together (i guess max 5 does this for you now) looks like your going about it the hard way? did you set up your uvw map gizmo on the top of the cylinder? i always aim it to the side..

MrHappyPants
03-02-2003, 10:46 AM
oh never mind my previous post.. you were mapping straight down on to a hemisphere right? in that case i would agree with modelling man and just planar map straight down.. keep your points uniform by scaling them in unwrap (using the checkers.. ) thats what i do anyways.. 500 ways to skin a cat though.. wait your skinning a steam robot thingy :rolleyes:

ckaos@om
03-25-2003, 12:39 AM
Ooops time flies so fast, and it's getting close to deadline so here i go again, have finally finished the uvs ( my second ever !!) and started working on the textures ( ok it's crap but i haven't done any for quite a while), so, any feedback is apreciated :)

A big thanks to everyone for their help and particularly to TPE for his support, encouragment, and usefull help and criticism for those nasty uvs !
enough talk :

http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/Wip-robo/Accesories%20colortest2.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/Wip-robo/MainGrey.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/Wip-robo/Robotex.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/h2ozone/Wip-robo/Robotex2.jpg

tpe
03-25-2003, 08:08 AM
Yeah, great to see, i was really worrying that you would not get the time to do the texture. It looks like a great beginning and makes me even more excited to see the finished model. My crit on the size of the obscured parts of the UVs still stands, but it looks like it wont be any problem. A little thing to do with your screenshot of the lightwave uv window. In PhotoShop duplicate the screenshot layer. Browse the meneue into image adjustments threshold and then move the slider slightly to the left (makes the image 1 bit black and white) and hit return. then hit ctrl I and select all the white area and delete it using the magic wand at 0 tollerence without contigious checked. move that layer to the top and then start your painting underneath. It means that you have a transparent layer with only the mesh visable over where you paint so as it does not dissapear. hide it when you have finished the texture.
Also if you want a quick way of getting an indication of general lighting load your model up into layout and baking the lighting only to a bitmap and then putting that as a layer in your texture as a guide to lighting. The texture llos like it will be great

tpe

URI::G
03-27-2003, 10:54 PM
This looks very cool!

I haven't played Chrono Trigger myself , but I must say it looks like you're staying very close to the concept. Good job! Looking forward to see it fully textured.

ckaos@om
03-28-2003, 06:41 PM
-Tpe : thanks man : i have tried your suggestions , and they work real good ( although not obvious here) that lighting baking really is amazingly simple to put in place : gotta luv lightwave !
-Thanks uri :) : Well i tried to stay close to the concept as far as the model goes, but i tend not to stick to it as far as the texture goes .. might do a 'cleaner' one after the deadline.

*update
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/sc3.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/sc1.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/sc2.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/sc5.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/sc4.jpg
i'm really working as slow as a slug on this, and damn, it really is'nt looking all that great but anyway, feel free to comment and criticise !
Oh and i have a question to all you skinners out there: after going thrrough a lot of tutorials on metals out there and studying photographs, i still don't know how the hell to do a correct shading for BRASS on rounded surfaces : ie the body ... i would be gratefull for any help or advice !

ARSA
03-28-2003, 07:22 PM
:airguitar looks good but is too tall ...

tpe
03-28-2003, 07:50 PM
He really is looking great :), i think you aer on to a winner

The details on your texture look excelent too, even though i would be tempted to leave the small details toill last :)

tpe

MrHappyPants
03-28-2003, 10:53 PM
I agree.. leave out details till the last pass of your texture. If you think like a traditional painter and you will make progress very fast!

1st pass = block in color
2nd pass= quick shading/find good ambient color
3rd pass= add more detailed but still not precise shading
4th pass= add wrinkles/rivets etc (keep it loose)
5th pass= if everything is still going great I would drop down to actual resolution of intended texture and tighten it all up. contrast if needed/ sharpen if needed!

thats usually how I work and I think its the quickest :thumbsup:


your texture is coming along ok but I think you would really benefit from leaving out the details and getting the color down. check out the "priss" bubble gum crisis entry. its a simple texture but hes got the color down so it reads well!

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47293

keep it up!
:beer:

ckaos@om
03-28-2003, 11:07 PM
thanks for the comments everyone !
Actually this isn't the way i usually work ( i ALWAYS work in color normally ) but i have been told so many time to try out the "grey scale way " that i thought i might give it a try : the colors here are just a test, everything is still in greyscale normally ...
Ah well, next time i'll switch back to my method again, i'll have less headaches in the end :)

tpe
03-29-2003, 09:08 AM
What mrhappypants says :), and what about just putting a colour layer over the whole thing, just to block out what colours are where, and then painting the greayscale under it? Sorry bit late to start complaining now?!?

tpe

MrHappyPants
03-31-2003, 10:32 PM
try to post him by 12:00am april 2nd GMT time

thats when the judging should start.

youve got a great model, cant wait to see the finished texture!

ckaos@om
04-01-2003, 02:30 PM
:annoyed: :annoyed: arhhhhhh !!
Wanted to post yesterday, but my ISP shut my connection down, just managed to get it back 1/2 hour ago and now i have to go to work, so i won't be able to post before 10 gmt +1 ...if that is still ok it's just great, otherwise, well.. it'd be sad as i have it all wrapped ...
cio !

MrHappyPants
04-01-2003, 06:06 PM
that should be fine... im about to create the judging thread (will hold judging till 12:00am GMT, so post it as soon as possible.

ckaos@om
04-02-2003, 11:59 AM
Thought i'd post the final version here as well
Please tell me what you think !

http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/flat.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/3dsmoothtex4.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/3dsmoothtex2.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/3dsmoothtex3.jpg

512*512
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/Main%20texoutline.jpg
256*256
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/Accessories%20texoutline.jpg

Beauty shot
http://membres.lycos.fr/h2ozone/beaut.jpg

Krystman
04-02-2003, 12:06 PM
I LOVE the Texture.. The metal Parts look wonderfull.. My only crit is that all the cloth pieces are a bit too chaotic, which makes them appear a bit flat... I think they should rather have only a few, straight folds.. like in the concept.. or in Wanzai's entry...

Tough competition here, do I have a Chance? :D

ckaos@om
04-02-2003, 01:00 PM
Thanks Krystman !
Yep i agree completely on the cloth , i was so happy to be able to do cloth for the first time that i overdid it :) But i'll redo that on the revised version ..
and yes , you DO stand a chance !!

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