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Shade01
02-16-2003, 10:24 PM
Is clicking in a blank area and having everything you carefully selected deselected! :annoyed: How the #@$@$! do you turn that off? I can't tell you how many times I've gone to click a button and I'm like a micrometer off and end up deselecting everything!

kretin
02-16-2003, 10:55 PM
I don't think there is a way to turn it off. But you've got a valid point, although I haven't really thought about it, there are many times I've accidently deselected this way. Might be something worth mentioning to Proton...

New
02-16-2003, 11:06 PM
Shade01, try to customize your keyboard with the tools you often use. You will safe time too.

Shade01
02-16-2003, 11:42 PM
No matter the amount of customization, which I do have, you will always have to click a button in modeler at some point and time, and having blank space deselect everything without an option to turn it off is stupid. They should have have a deselect all button or something if they insist on having it be that way. I'm weighting a character right now, carefully selected all the points I wanted to weight, which wasn't the simplest thing, went to click the weight map button and accidently hit the razor thin border (which is like a micrometer thin) between the button and the viewport and deselected everything. Not that this is the first time something like that has happened.

Cman
02-16-2003, 11:45 PM
There is a deselect all button ("/") - but I agree it would definitely be an annoyance to have that happen to me, what you describe.
Maybe, they can put in a preferences to toggle that feature in next release.

New
02-16-2003, 11:51 PM
Shade01, I agree. That had happened to me too.

Meshbuilder
02-16-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Shade01
Is clicking in a blank area and having everything you carefully selected deselected! :annoyed: How the #@$@$! do you turn that off? I can't tell you how many times I've gone to click a button and I'm like a micrometer off and end up deselecting everything!

Turn OFF (Left Button Item Select) in the General Options window and you will not have this problem again..

Freak
02-17-2003, 01:43 AM
Hmmm, I have the complete reverse problem actually!

I have all my Model menus customised...

And i didn't leave any gaps or text headings in between the buttons..... Meaning trying to find a gap is almost impossible.

Personally i'd wish they would increase the areas where i could use this feature..... (like the top or bottom of the screen)
What's a bug to one person, is a feature to another.....

As for this being LW's most annoying feature...... HA!

What about the fact that the surface editor, defaults to the first surface you created everytime. (Rather than the last used)

It means everytime you would like to tweak your current surface,
LW changes the selection... to the first surface....

How is that for highly ineffective ?
I need to move my tablet and make a mouse click EVERYTIME!!!
I can't believe it has not been fixed in 7.0, 7.0b, or 7.5...

It's adding an hour a day of just clicking my mouse.... Bizzare!

Fasty
02-17-2003, 02:29 AM
I know there's a "TURN OFF Left item button select" option in Layout, but I just checked and you can't turn it off in Modeler.

faulknermano
02-17-2003, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by New
Shade01, I agree. That had happened to me too.

weird.. never happened to me. i dont use the toolbar menu at all. i find it very hard to look for the stuff i need off a toolbar like that. all my functions are on the mouse button menus or shortcuts.

:shrug:

LyonHaert
02-17-2003, 05:02 AM
amen. i also turn off the ViewPort Titles. very nice big work area.

and as for clicking in a blank menu area to deselect everything, that proved to be much more of a pain in the butt than just hittin '/' (Drop Current Tool), which drops your selection when no tool is active.

takkun
02-17-2003, 05:34 AM
You guys find the wierdest little things to bitch about.

LyonHaert
02-17-2003, 06:47 AM
it's not like we can bitch about the renderer or whatever :)

Cocefi
02-17-2003, 07:00 AM
Is clicking in a blank area and having everything you carefully selected deselected!

It happened to me on a number of occasions. It gets real annoying especially when I've spent considerable time carefully selecting some points from a complex object and BAM! One misclick and it's all gone!

Maybe someone should add a selection undo. :)

Shade01
02-17-2003, 07:13 AM
Yeah, I see I'm not the only one who shares the pain :)

CIM
02-17-2003, 07:17 AM
There are plenty of things about Lightwave's renderer we could bitch about. :-)

- Horrible anti-aliasing, which adds ages to renders. Mental Ray and Renderman have one-pass anti aliasing. For the most part, Lightwave is fast at renderering, but when high-quality renders comes into play, Mental Ray and Renderman mop the floor with Lightwave on speed.

- Bad motion blur and dof.

- Radiosity instead of Global Illumination. GI is generally faster and less prone to errors.

There are other things, but those would probably best fit into the "candy" features area (like SSS, skin shaders, and other things built-in).

Shade01
02-17-2003, 07:23 AM
Alright CIM, let's bitch about one thing at a time ;)

CourtJester
02-17-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by CIM


- Bad motion blur and dof.

- Radiosity instead of Global Illumination. GI is generally faster and less prone to errors.


Given how many hacks (like the prism-rainbow effect, spinning lights, spinning cameras, etc.) depend on the brute-force time sampling of motion blur, I hope they don't change that.

What is missing is good 2D motion blurring and AA. Vectorblur doesn't cut it when you are going to be compositing somewhere else, it doesn't seem to blur the alpha properly or something.

I don't get the distinction between "radiosity" and global illumination. Unless you are referring to using light sources to approximate an environment's lighting instead of radiosity (a la LightGen), then I would agree, especially since that would allow specularity to pick up environmental lighting at a fraction of the cost of fuzzy ray tracing reflections...

And yes, I think the hit-between-the-buttons and lose your selection bug in Modeler (it is NOT a feature) is one of the stupidest things in LightWave, especially when you consider that selection in LW, often a painstaking process for complex models, is ephemeral and not saved in the Undo chain (while TAB'ing is, go figure).

On the flip side, I do wish I could clear the selection by clicking in an open area INSIDE THE WINDOWS, like in nearly every other app. It's a PITA to wonder why you can't select anything, only to discover that something was left selected somewhere the hell else on the model. The "slash" key is the most used shortcut in Modeler for me.

And don't get me started about the need to drop a tool before making selection changes (but this isn't always the case, sometimes you can).

Dreamwave
02-17-2003, 07:19 PM
mine only deselects when I click in that small grey box on the left bottom of the screen :shrug:

4dartist
02-17-2003, 07:29 PM
I didn't know what you guys were talking about lol about accidently deselecting things.. so i opened Modeler and went click happy hehe. I see where your talking about now hehe, but i'll have to say, i have never once in the 6 months or so when i've been using LW, ever accidently clicked those areas that deselect your selection hehe. Weird.. :surprised But i could imagine that would sux0r. I won't even get into the fixes etc that i want for LW thats an endless topic...

takkun
02-17-2003, 09:08 PM
bitch. bitch. bitch. :rolleyes:

rock
02-18-2003, 05:39 AM
Guys,

I like Lightwave a lot. But I have to admit that if you look at it unbiasedly, without the community self-serving momentum, Lightwave is outdated - in almost all areas.

Rock.

Shade01
02-18-2003, 06:08 AM
Hey Felytendect, bitching is very therapeutic. I see you already know that though, because you like to bitch about us bitching about things that make us bitch :)

wgreenlee1
02-18-2003, 06:12 AM
The most annoying feature in Lightwave............

the users...........especially the "warez kiddies"....


:surprised

faulknermano
02-18-2003, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by rock
Guys,

I like Lightwave a lot. But I have to admit that if you look at it unbiasedly, without the community self-serving momentum, Lightwave is outdated - in almost all areas.

Rock.

:surprised heh? unbiased? only a 'robot' could be "really" unbiased. fact is, a machine is not the 'operator' of any such 3d app.

'outdated?' in what context do you mean? functionality? or end-product?

if functionality: there is technology > its corresponding interface > and the resulting 'ergonomic' effect. if you talk about technology alone, the first one in the chain, you _may_ be correct. i emphasize "may" because i am not all too aware of the nuts and bolts of lightwave technology and therefore cannot defend that. and unless you do know the technology involved, you may not be correct (e.g. only a guess). if you veer towards the _actual_ technology towards its ability to perform in the context for which it was created you talk about interface.

now, if you talk about interface and its resulting 'ergonomics' you have no choice but to say that everything about it is 'biased'. because interface and 'ergonomics' is in its very essence a "general" preference. a preference denotes opinion and therefore bias.

what i'm trying to get at is that the gap between the functionalities of lightwave compared to any other 'high-end' apps around is NOT so appalling wide that you can say it is outdated.. on any level - technological or interface-wise, especially since lightwave has the gallery to say otherwise.

oxygen_77
02-18-2003, 11:04 AM
I'm not sure, but can't you just hit undo (u) and then redo (U) and all the selected items that were accidentally unselected will be reselected? I've done this before and it worked...

CIM
02-18-2003, 11:35 AM
If LW is so outdated, I wonder why it's modeler run circles around any other.

ScottG
02-18-2003, 11:57 AM
Well I for one love my LW . There are little things that bug me but you get used to them after a while. There are little things about Photoshop/Flash that bug me too but in all three proggies the good stuff far outweighs the bad :thumbsup:

When I hear about some of you guys talking about LW being outdated my eyes glaze over and my head hurts ! I'm still trying to figure out how to use half the tools in 7.5 properly ;)

faulknermano
02-18-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by oxygen_77
I'm not sure, but can't you just hit undo (u) and then redo (U) and all the selected items that were accidentally unselected will be reselected? I've done this before and it worked...

that happens when you have moved the selection (acted a command upon it). modeler will revert to the selection so it can undo your action. but it is event based, and selecting points / polys is not an event by itself.

Julez4001
02-18-2003, 01:13 PM
I have beeen using Lw for years and this is how I actually deselect things ..I totally forgetting there is a button for it.
I love it...newtek don't change a thng and if you do ..make it a option.

takkun
02-18-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Rock
I like Lightwave a lot. But I have to admit that if you look at it unbiasedly, without the community self-serving momentum, Lightwave is outdated - in almost all areas. It's all about the final image, everything else is secondary.
Originally posted by Shade01
Hey Felytendect, bitching is very therapeutic. I see you already know that though, because you like to bitch about us bitching about things that make us bitch :) :beer:

Mgfx
02-18-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Julez4001
I have beeen using Lw for years and this is how I actually deselect things ..I totally forgetting there is a button for it.
I love it...newtek don't change a thng and if you do ..make it a option.

same here, this is how I deselect things to. Whatever you do don't remove it, make it an option like Julez proposed.

DominikSusmel
02-18-2003, 11:36 PM
Let me throw in my 2 euro cents...

I use modeler quite frequently (Layout only for SurfaceBaker to get nice Photoshop templates of UV's and some other quite unimportant things), so my rant goes on to modeler...

I will not speak of features I miss, only one minor thing that is bugging me...

In perspective window, when I use Alt+Left mouse click, camera always finds a way to roll itself onto the side (like a pitch or something). This pretty much renderes useless mouse orbiting around my object, so I am forced to orbit with that little icon on top of the window (which, when used with left mouse button functions correctly). So, is there a way to have the mouse in viewport just use the left-button functionality, without adding right mouse functionality to it?

thanks-

Tudor
02-19-2003, 07:49 AM
Hehe..
I've been using LW since 1995, and I never ever used the deselect button.. Where is it btw?

Originally posted by Julez4001
I have beeen using Lw for years and this is how I actually deselect things ..I totally forgetting there is a button for it.
I love it...newtek don't change a thng and if you do ..make it a option.

red_oddity
02-19-2003, 09:01 AM
You can assign it to any key you like, or, as a default i believe it is the '/' key.
It's the 'Drop Current Tool' command.

Mahlon
02-19-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Shade01
Is clicking in a blank area and having everything you carefully selected deselected! :annoyed: How the #@$@$! do you turn that off? I can't tell you how many times I've gone to click a button and I'm like a micrometer off and end up deselecting everything!

Is there not an un-do button that would take you back to your original selection?

mahlon

takkun
02-19-2003, 04:08 PM
Has anyone else reassigned the 'Drop Current Tool/ Deselect' tool from the '/' key to the 'z' key? The 'z' key is by default the airbrush tool but since I don't use that much I switched it with '/'.

4dartist
02-19-2003, 04:47 PM
Na Mahlon, there was a post in this tread earlier that explained why you can't undo back to your selection, and he was right on i think so just scrub back and you will see.

Actually Fely putting it on the z key would be kinda nice 8) i like having my hand move as little as possible from the left side of the keyboard 8) And i use the deselect key often becuase its faster than Re-Laso-ing the selection to unselect it. I may give that a go 8)~

An idea for you guys that spend 20mins making the perfect selection of verticies, how about making it a habbit to hit a hotkey after you spend a good deal of time doing that, and this hotkey would make that selection a selectionset. So in the "W" panel you can just get right back to it if need be. .. Dunno an idea, i know its more work etc etc. hey i have to hit Shift S a kabillion times.. thats my Undo! haha.

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