Natalie Portman WIP

[LPlasma]

Head shape seems way off. I'd suggest getting stuff at least somewhat further along before asking for criticism, that's probably only a few hours of work and you could get far more meaningful input if there was more there to actually critique.

[gruvsyco]

If this is going to be a "Remi" version of Natalie Portman, I sincerely look forward to the updates. I like your style.

[Solve]

Seriously, why did you start showing it this early? It's far to early to show anything.

[nanabaky]

woh, it's scary like that !

[gnarlycranium]

Dear god, man, what have you done with her NOSE?!! :scream:

Um... usual questions-- is this going to be stylized or realistic? What modeling method exactly are you using? And can we see a wire? ...Maybe once you're a little farther and she has like... a MOUTH I mean.

[Joril]

Natalie Portman WIP

Hehe, it's been a while :)
Let's see where this one goes....

[Remi]

An update...sorry for posting so soon...must've been a little over anxious....:shrug:
http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/wip/2003/02/16-445883.jpg

[gnarlycranium]

She looks... um.. squished. Head needs to be much taller.

[kretin]

Hard to say at this stage Remi,

Doesn't look like her yet... Also the cheek area, from the nose/cheek bones to the mouth is too far back.

What is your goal with the model? To create realistic Natalie, Stylised but recognisable, cartoon?

[ninja noodle]

i think you have a good start on your model, but i think you can make the bridge of the nose slightly wider.
http://www.fineart.sk/heads.htm ~ this site is pretty good for references.

[d4rk]

I think that the forehead is coming out too far, the nose is a little too pointy and the chin is not out far enough. The nose seems a bit too wide at the bottom and the nose shoudl not be curved so much.

;) sorry don't mean to sound bad in anyway. I think that your style is really cool, aside from it not looking like Natalie Portman, I really like the eyes they have a really nice feel to them, well the whole thing does. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

[Aros]

Are you using reference? If not, maybe you should consider getting some :)

The shape of the head needs alot of tweaking. The nose, eyes and mouth are looking pretty good. Keep it up! :thumbsup:

[Aros]

;)

http://www.sweb.cz/filmyaherci/Obrazky/Natalie%20Portman%2002.jpg
http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/54/039_36431.jpg
http://www.fineart.sk/Nfront.jpg
http://www.fineart.sk/Nprofile.jpg

[Hexodam]

wirez plz:applause:

[Guirnaldo]

mmh well the second post was definately better than the first one, the idea of getting some realistic ideas for your model is not too bad, give it some more thought en sweat before posting

anyway: i like what u got now, so don't give that one up! she's going to be a beauty I feel it! :love:

[DLDude]

I hope you get this model lookin good. I love that girl.

[Remi]

The wires...

I'm using a couple of the pics in the post earlier as refs....is there a specific way of setting things up in modeler....ref wise....

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/wip/2003/02/17-518661.jpg

[Remi]

Some basic texturing just to get a feel for it....not too good a texturing but I'll get better as I go...
http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/wip/2003/02/17-519475.jpg

[gnarlycranium]

Pics aren't showing up for me... bah.

And what do you mean, 'is there a specific way'? What exactly about setting up refs are you wondering about?

[Remi]

Basically I just load them into the backdrop and hit automatic size....is this ok.....or is there more to it...this is my first model from picture....thanks for replying:)

[d4rk]

cool

[Hexodam]

wires aint showing :(

[Remi]

Something is wrong with the server right now...should be back soon...sorry:shrug:

[Hexodam]

ok, good job :)

[d4rk]

I got to see 'em though :)! Hey did you render it in LW ? just cuirous.

[Lukashi]

I like it :) keep at it

[gnarlycranium]

Aha! I see them now!

And yes, Remi, there is MUCH more to it. You have to make sure your front and profile reference shots are at the right angles-- this is VERY IMPORTANT. Heck, I should write a tutorial on this or somethin....

The main thing to keep in mind-- most of the time when you see photos of people, their heads are tilted FORWARD slightly. Notice the profile of your head... it's at a pretty sharp angle. Now, since heads are organic, there is no REAL way to decide what exactly qualifies as a head's true Z-axis... but there are a few guidelines for working it out. Generally speaking, the lowest portion of the earlobe lines up with the lowest portion of the nose. A line drawn between those two features can serve to determine the horizontal axis of a profile shot. The vertical axis can be found with a line between the foremost portion of the chin or where the lips meet, and the foremost portion of the brow, though that's not always exact-- often the chin is just a little bit receded from it.

It's harder to find out the angle of a front shot. Look for the ears. Try to find pictures where you can see the earlobes peeking out-- their level as compared to where the nose is on the face can give you an idea of how the head is tilted.

The tough part then is to make sure that your profile and front shots are the right SCALE relative to each other, and get them lined up right. Slap them on some planes in your scene... MAX has a 'fit to bitmap' function that will make sure the images aren't stretched at all, if your app doesn't have that function, look up the size of the images so you can make planes that are the correct dimensions. After you've done that... you can scale them until they look more or less the proper size, and then stick some points on important features on the profile plane-- the underside of the nose, the lower part of the ear, the lowest part of the chin, the hairline, the eyes, etc. Then ROTATE the profile shot, and scale it as needed, until those marks line up with the same heights as those features in the front shot.

THEN, theoretically, you can model more or less accurately. That all make sense? That's it, I'm gonna put up a page so my fingers don't fall off from typing that to people over and over.. heh.

As for the topology of the head-- looks like you've got a good start, the nose and eyes are nice and solid, but the area around the mouth could use some work. Check out the head topology sticky thread (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38469) in the Modeling section for more info on that stuff.

[ceql]

Originally posted by Gnarly Cranium

The main thing to keep in mind-- most of the time when you see photos of people, their heads are tilted FORWARD slightly. Notice the profile of your head... it's at a pretty sharp angle. Now, since heads are organic, there is no REAL way to decide what exactly qualifies as a head's true Z-axis... but there are a few guidelines for working it out. Generally speaking, the lowest portion of the earlobe lines up with the lowest portion of the nose. A line drawn between those two features can serve to determine the horizontal axis of a profile shot. The vertical axis can be found with a line between the foremost portion of the chin or where the lips meet, and the foremost portion of the brow, though that's not always exact-- often the chin is just a little bit receded from it.

It's harder to find out the angle of a front shot. Look for the ears. Try to find pictures where you can see the earlobes peeking out-- their level as compared to where the nose is on the face can give you an idea of how the head is tilted.


/me nods
definetely listen to Gnarly Cranium on this, as it'll save you alot of hassle down the line ;)

Mmmm ok!! It's post-really-good-pictures time :D

Here's a really good front shot of Natalie Portman, where the head isn't tilted down:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/Sequel/reference/natalie_portman912036.jpg [edit: Note that it could, however, be tilted upwards a bit much?]

and here's a really good profile shot of Natalie Portman:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/Sequel/reference/natalie_portman912035.jpg
(The NP profile image from fineart.sk is tilted too much the side, doesn't make good reference material IMHO (!!))


Good Luck :D

[d4rk]

I like those ref photos you just posted. Are her ears really tilted back that much? Kinda cool though;)

[gnarlycranium]

Wow, she DOES have freakish ears, that's weird! Good pics though (cept the profile shot is turned a little towards the camera)-- how did you go about finding those, or did you just have em on hand?

[ceql]

hehe yea, just had em on hand.... ;)

hmmm profile shots are so hard to find.... it'd be really kewl if someone setup a huge archive just full of em :D

[blindsleeper]

shes got one funky ear there, though shes still hot

[lerpiedood]

I noticed natalie had weird messed up ears when I saw this profile of her in Allure a while back.

Remi: good start! I don't know if your going for this but your model looks cartoonish. Using good reference images of the front and side and modeling to them helps too get her looking like she should. But there's alot of unnoticed contours of the face which can't be seen in front and side. It also helps to know your porportions. I think the top of your head is too small. Her eye's look a little odd. The nose and the lips also need some work. The corners of the lips on your model are quite stretched, and sortof odd looking. Real corners of lips when closed, the upper lip sort of folds and pushes into the bottom lip. then at the corner, the lips go back to fold a slight dent, then there is this little fold that goes down, if you do not put this in the lips will always look odd. Now onto her nose, you made her nose really thick and roundish at the tip and kept that thickness. It should actually get a little thinner, not too thin though. The way it is now, she sortof looks like she has an italian nose. The head itself, although it may not always look it, is 5 eye lengths wide. Sometimes it's just a little under or a little over. If you forget to realize this it will look animeish or cartoonish even.

Nice job on the checks and bridge of the nose though. Your topology is not the greatest, but it works. If you really want some great topology I recommend you study phreaknasty's head. All in all your head is looking alot better then many head's I've seen out there. I hope to see a nice finished peice!

Oh and BTW when your done modeling the head and are going to start on the hair, see me, I can give you some tips.

[gnarlycranium]

I still think most of the problems come from the fact that the head is so weirdly squished. Looks like most everything's fine with it... except it needs to be half again as tall as it is.

Keep in mind, Remi-- the human head is 5 eyes wide. This one is missing some skull along the outside. The distance from the spot between the eyes to the end of the nose should be the same as the distance from the spot between the eyes to the outside corner of one eye. The same distance again is between the bottom of the nose and the bottom of the chin. Grrr I need to finish that page of mine so I can just refer you there...

[Gremlin]

it looks good, but the nose seems a bit too wide....
god that natalie is hot.... *drooools* :drool:

[Remi]

Small update but it took me a while and some pics to go from but I think it looks a little better now....let me know what you think...thanks for the comments...much appreciated....:thumbsup: http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/wip/2003/02/18-631039.jpg

[Snakeman]

natalie is a HOTTIE!!!

[gnarlycranium]

Um.... do you have any thoughts on anything I said Remi, or am I posting at length to myself over here?

[shoey]

Hey Remi, good start mate :thumbsup:

Its good to see you making something different.
So far I agree with a lot of the things that GC has said about the proportions of the head. But its early days and as you say this is your first attempt at something like this.

Keep up the good work:bounce:

[Remi]

Hey Gnarly....of course i'm listening man...sorry if it seems like i'm not....as shoey said.....i've never modeled from a picture before...so i'll get the hang of it....time my friend give me time....hehe...thanks for all of the help....:thumbsup:

thanks shoey for your comments:thumbsup:

I have to agree with you snakeman:thumbsup:

[Lukashi]

My only crit is that it seems the brow and the nose are a bit too much forward heres the pictures i looked off


http://www.fineart.sk/Nprofile.jpg
http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/wip/2003/02/18-631039.jpg

Also the point between her nostrils should be less pointy imo

Anyways good work and keep at it :bounce:

[blindsleeper]

definately the forehead needs work... might try looking at a profile image which is actually vertically somewhat square, i believe one was posted earlier in the thread...

[Talos]

well for a "Remi" style model it works it really does
:applause:



can't wait for the rest of the updates :beer:

[d4rk]

Wow, I really like how it's turning out. I assume you are not going for 100% photorealism, it has a definet style to it (which is good), I like it alot! :applause: I still think the nose (if you look in the side view) should be different.

[KingMob]

hey remi, I wanted to chime in, I think your are getitng a good version of portman, tho if your going for photreal , it needs a lot of work still.

If, however, this is a remi version of portman, I only see a few things that bug me...

1. the nose needs work, to pointy and crooked now, as the pics peeps have posted sshow.

2.her eyes a re a bit to squinty

3. her head looks a little squished on the horizon...which may be why the nose looks odd to.

good work tho remi. A daunting task to model nat, sinse so many have tried and failed. I would rather see her in your own style, thana photoreal version any day (we have a photoreal version of her already) :beer:

[Remi]

Not going for photoreal here.....a close photoreal yet stylized....if that makes sense....something a little different than what's been done since she's been done a million times....thanks for all of the comments...will definitly work more on her forehead and nose since that seems to be where most crits are directed....thanks again...:thumbsup:

[dtrimble]

I have been doing a Portamn model also, but am happy to get some new reference from people on this post(thanks!) The forehead proportions have been killing me! I keep thinking there is no way it sticks out so far, yet it does, lol.
Good work so far, but there's a long way to tweak to get her likeness. Reworking the nose would help a lot, esecially where it meets the cheek. Pay attention to the little bit of baby fat under her eye cavity, kinda forming with her cheek bone, you can see it well in the side view there.

[coCoKNIght]

Hi Remi!

I just discovered this thread and haven't read all the posts yet.
First of, I like your model a lot, it has already much style like you wanted and I like your stile very much. However your face doesn't look too close to Portman's yet, I think the mail problem is the nose. I know you're not going for photorealism but parts like the nose should still assosiate ro the real Portman. Try emphasizing characteristics a little more than changing characteristics so it fits your style (I'm not saying don't do it at all!)
Phew! There's another, last but important hint for you: Don't listen to what I'm babbling! :D

Cheers!

[mactabilis]

even when stylized i think the nose should have similar features.. your nose is way different than natalies.. her nose is narrower, the nostrils ride higher than the tip... it really doesn't look like her... looks nice though

[d4rk]

hey Remi? Any progress on this in the last couple of days? Just curious.

[Mr_Sleep]

Oh, i like the idea of this. I wish i was natalie portman's love slave LOL. Model could use of tweaking here and there, but overall a good start. Dont dissapoint me on this ;)

:drool: :buttrock: :drool:

[Remi]

Well...let me know if this is any better....of course the hair is still wip(going to be making 4-6 layers) and so is she for that matter...well, back to work...thanks for all of the comments people...really busy at work and I wish I had more time to work on her...all in all though i'm pretty pleased...thanks again for any comments....:applause:

This isn't a render...just screenshots...
http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/wip/2003/03/03-726603.jpg

[coCoKNIght]

Yeah, much better, that's portman now ;)

[DeFnoTmAniA]

hummm... lache po !! sa s'envient !!!!

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.