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twidup
12-16-2006, 06:24 PM
Hey all, and welcome to the first rigging challenge.

Our first model is a Lioness Huntress, donated by William "Proton" Vaughn...thanks again for the model Proton.

First off, the model. I have converted the model to OBJ and 3DS. It came from LW and was a subD object originally, I have frozen it at a LW subD level 2 so that everyone is working on the same common ground for the model. If you want a DXF version, let me know.

Downloads :

objs : www.toddwidup.com/downloads/cgtalk/huntress_OBJ.zip

3DS : www.toddwidup.com/downloads/cgtalk/huntress3DS.zip

The model is a female human covered in armor. There is also a couple pieces of cloth draping down from her waist.

This rigging challenge will continue for 30 days each and will break down as follows :
Challenge 1 : Dec 17th thru Jan 16th : Huntress Torso and Head/Neck (NO FACIAL)
Challenge 2 : Jan 17th thru Feb 16th : Huntress arms
Challenge 3 : Feb 17th thru Mar 16th : Huntress Legs
Challenge 4 : Mar 17th thru April 16th : Huntress props (Cloth and armor tweaking)

The reason for breaking it down like this is to give you time to experiment and improve your techniques.

During the inital arm/leg/torso rigging, setup the armor as well, but keep in mind that at the end, you will have time to tweak how the armor moves.

Guidelines :
1 : Deformations must look good, no pinching or visible penetration (even if the armor covers it, no penetration)
2 : IK/FK blending on arms and legs.
3 : Armor must be automated with controls to allow for animation tweaking
4 : automation : put it where ever you normally would
5 : cloth : automation or keyable motion on it. If you set it up for a simulation, you are allowed to create new geometry to deform the current piece if you like, or you are allowed to modify the existing piece to work properly for your cloth engine.
6 : Threads should look like this :
USERNAME Huntress Torso SOFTWARE
That is so that we can easily know what software package you are using. Your WIP videos can be posted to youtube and just linked to it from here, or hosted on your own site
7 : you may seperate out the armor pieces for easier rigging

These rules can be admended at anytime, incase I forgot something and they are in addition to the general rules for the challenges.

Good luck and I cant wait to see what everyone comes up with.

-todd

danb
12-16-2006, 06:55 PM
Is there supposed to be an entire figure in the .3ds/.obj zip files? I am only seeing a helmet. I thought there was going to be an entire figure?

Or are we supposed to model the head, limb, etc...?

twidup
12-16-2006, 08:30 PM
Doh, that was my fault. been a hectic day here. I will get new ones made and posted shortly.

-todd

twidup
12-16-2006, 08:41 PM
Ok, I just uploaded a new zip file to my website. the below links will get you teh files

objs : www.toddwidup.com/downloads/cgtalk/huntress_OBJ.zip

3DS : www.toddwidup.com/downloads/cgtalk/huntress3DS.zip

good luck and sorry about that.

There is a rule addition as well.

cheers
-todd

Darksuit
12-17-2006, 01:47 AM
Can we get the LWO file as well?

Also, since I am thinking about this at the moment, What sort of movement are we going to be thinking of doing with the armor. If I am going to plan things out, I will want to roadmap this out a bit.

twidup
12-17-2006, 04:03 PM
Yeah, I can post the LWO as well, but as with the others, it will be frozen at level 2, so everyone has the same mesh.

As for the motions, lets say she is for a couple game cinematic shots. Mostly running and posing, but some combat as well. So, in general, the rig needs to be flexible and allow for some extreme poses during combat motions.

-todd

Darksuit
12-17-2006, 04:14 PM
Thanks,

For those that want to do screen capture there is a free screen capture program out there called Oripa (http://www.ejoystudio.com/oripa-screen-recorder/index.htm) Which should help out some for those that dont want to use FRAPS (http://www.fraps.com/). =)

ngrava
12-21-2006, 03:25 AM
Did I read that right? One (1) month to build a torso rig? That doesn't sound right... I'm not trying to sound like I'm some kind of rigging master but seriously, a month is a long time for a torso, let alone a whole rig. I know you are trying to make this a learning experience and all, and that's really great but,here at work we usually only have about a week at the most to rig characters. I've even seen people here in the forums brag about being able to rig a character from scratch in about an hour.

Also, To me, the torso is interdependent on the arms and clavicle bones. One of the most common issues during skinning is when you lower the arm and see what happens to the sides of the torso and shoulder. Not to mention that the torso is way easer to rig then an arm is. For me, I enjoy rigging when it can be a more freeform and non-liner.

What about her hands? That's a whole art in it's self.

I apologize if I sound like I'm criticizing you. That's not my intention. I just think that if you bust out a whole complex character in full armor and such (nice model by the way), you would be expecting more experienced riggers (not to mention, you're expecting "Automation") If that's not the case then why such a complex model? If you where expecting beginners then I would suggest a more simple character. What I personally would love to see is this: Spend a month doing the entire skeleton minus the hands. So, at this point, we all just model the hands into a static pose (maybe holding a sword?). Then, next month, do just the hands with custom controllers and expressions and all that fun stuff.

Of course, all is to be taken with a grain of salt. :)

danb
12-21-2006, 04:24 AM
In the previous replies it has been explained as to why the whole month per body part. Most 3d artists are fulltime working artists and do not have too much time to commit to creating a rig in under a month.

You have to remember that some, but not all, riggers could rig in an hour, but most need more. A month covers any time issues for all types of situations for artists.

Me for example. I am completely free to work the whole month on just the rig. I could create the rig in less than a month. However, if a contract that i am warming up for in february happended this month, then i would have had maybe 3 hours a week to work on the rig.

Does that make it more understandable?

twidup
12-21-2006, 01:50 PM
The hands will be part of the arm rigging, as the feet will be part of the leg rigging.

And again, the month is exactly as DanB said, because of commitments to work, family, and school.

-todd

ngrava
12-21-2006, 03:24 PM
Sure, a month to do a rig is exactly what I was saying. But that's not what it says in the original post. It says a month to do just the torso, a month to do the arms and a month to do just the legs and another to do just the props. That's four months total.

danb
12-21-2006, 03:36 PM
Sure, a month to do a rig is exactly what I was saying. But that's not what it says in the original post. It says a month to do just the torso, a month to do the arms and a month to do just the legs and another to do just the props. That's four months total.

Well the point is that we all have other lives than our "CGTalk.com" lives. So especially with christmas and new years, some people may not even be near their computer for 1-3 weeks. Many people go on vacation. If someone is in school, they are on break, and most likely do not want to spend their free time behind a computer. These vacationers, workers and students probably make up the majority of the people entering the contest. It wouldn't be a contest with only a dozen people.

So this first challenge is timed appropriately, to allow as many people as possible to enter and compete. Just because in your opinion its too long, more people have voiced that a month is perfect.

And remember, if you get your's done waaayyy before a month, you can post the rig and start to recieve critiques before everyone else. Then possible have a hand up on the competition. :)

twidup
12-21-2006, 04:25 PM
The other point for the month per body part is several of the people who were wanting to enter the challenge are new to rigging. It was to give them time to experiement and learn.

YOu can always do what a few others are doing and thats build your whoel rig and then spend time tweaking it.

-todd

Darksuit
12-21-2006, 05:45 PM
NOD to Twidup,

This is ofcourse what I am doing. Yes I had the whole thing done in just a matter of a couple hours, but because its not for a work project I can leave it do something else then come back to it. Tweak and play around with the torso, or even rebuild it again and again if I so chose to. Since I have my basic arms and legs in place I can putz around with the torso all I want. Sometimes its nice to do a piece then step back and take a look at it, or let your mind relax for a day or two to think about how you might want to experiment with something.

=)

mitchelhunt
01-01-2007, 12:45 AM
no .blend files? i would love to participate, but i can only "afford" blender. :/

danb
01-01-2007, 12:47 AM
no .blend files? i would love to participate, but i can only "afford" blender. :/

Pretty sure blender can import .obj objects. Yes no?

mitchelhunt
01-01-2007, 09:10 AM
Pretty sure blender can import .obj objects. Yes no?

didn't work when i tried it. :shrug:

danb
01-01-2007, 11:27 AM
didn't work when i tried it. :shrug:

Oh sorry. I didn't know that the .obj importer doesn't work. :(

mitchelhunt
01-01-2007, 11:44 PM
Oh sorry. I didn't know that the .obj importer doesn't work. :(

it's cool :thumbsup:

twidup
01-02-2007, 02:43 AM
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=441967

you might talk to Kha and see how he did it without a problem

cheers
-todd

dude5487
01-04-2007, 11:32 PM
This seems great to me and a great challenge for a person wanting to get better at rigging. I am looking forward to everyones finished work and good luck to all!

Darksuit- Thanks for the link to the screen capture program :)

N8Girard
01-05-2007, 09:00 PM
So far I'm having a great time rigging this character. It's giving me opportunities to try out some different approaches and share techniques with others. Please tell "William "Proton" Vaughn" that we appreciate his donation. Forgive my lack of information, but how is he related to the Newtek company?

I'm wondering twidup, will we have to post scene files for each stage of the challenge. For example, will we have to post a torso scene file at the end of the torso part of the challenge? Or will a work in progress movie suffice?

N8Girard
01-05-2007, 09:08 PM
I have another question. I know riggers never get this opportunity but has this character actually been used in any pre-existing animation? Are there movie files depicting this character in motion so that we can study deformations and armor movements? Or do you think that would be "limiting" our creativity and too much of an influence?

I ask because I like to gather as much research material as I can on the subject so that I may formulate a plan of attack. I've never seen armor like this before so I'm trying to figure out how well it will move and how limiting it would be to the wearer. Does this character ride lions for instance? It appears that the armor is better suited for a stradle pose rather than a walking or running pose. That's not to say it can't move that way, I'm just making observations based on the overall design. I also think that the chest armor is definately made of some sort of heavy leather, because there is no way to move your arms or clavical in it or even put it on otherwise. The gloves look like leather also, but affixed with metal gauntlets. The boots look like they might be metal plates that slide against each other but are also better suited for riding than walking. I would be interested in hearing what others think of the armor as well.

Cactus Dan
01-06-2007, 10:12 PM
Howdy,

I'm considering giving this challenge a shot, but I'm also curious about the armor. Which parts are metal and which parts are leather. Or, is that left up to the individual to decide.

Also, can we alter the mesh in any way? I notice there is already a problem with intersecting meshes in the hip armor:
http://www.cactus3d.com/Intersection.jpg

I don't know if I'll be able to make it all the way through to the finish. I'm already off to a late start. :blush:

Adios,
Cactus Dan

twidup
01-07-2007, 12:13 AM
N8Girard
Proton use to be the LW evangalist at newTek.

As for the final part, just a video is fine. The final rig, once all is said and done will be posted though.

I am leaving the leather vs metal up to you.

Cactus Dan,
no modifications allowed except for altering meshes for cloth work.

As for the intersection, work around it.

-todd

MoutMout
01-08-2007, 09:10 PM
Lot of people talk about the armour and cloths but the first thing we have to do it's the torso the neck and the head but you've said no facial maybe we can detach the eyes to make an aim controller, and sorry if I did'nt get all rules but we just have to make the best rigging as we can, right?

Sorry for my english and this challenge it's a very great idea thanks a lot.

twidup
01-08-2007, 10:01 PM
hmmm, thought I had covered that.

You can seperate the geo to seperate pieces, just no pulling points or changing the meshes.

As for facial rigging, well, we might save that for a seperate challenge

-todd

twidup
01-09-2007, 06:50 PM
Ok, this challenge has definately been fun to watch.

And for the next one, we will cut the time down a bit (probably 2 months vs 4 months)

Anyways, onto the topic.

If you have completed your torso rig and want to move on to the arms, feel free. You can work on the next challenge requirements, but only the next one.

-todd

JamSession
01-09-2007, 09:08 PM
so far I am really enjoying this.

I do agree with NGRAVA, a month for each section is way too long. I can understand if it was the hulk, or davey jones where we needed to do 40 tentecles or a full body muscle simulation, but a torso, 2 weeks is more than enough time. I researched armor, rigged and weighted in about 4 hours. If people spend 30 minutes a day for 2 weeks that is 5 hours ( not counting the weekends :) ). I bet everyone in this competition watches more than 30 minutes of TV a day.

2nd, I think it should be broken down to upper body and lower body. 1 month for upper body, 1 month for lower body.

The full month for lower body would give you time to finalize everything, ie if there was armor, you could go back and add extra settings where you need to, or fix problems that came up.

I am not trying to put you down, or criticize you, but to give you ideas on how to make it better and more interesting.

Pyrokinesis
01-19-2007, 02:44 PM
I just started learning rigging this month, and I think this is AWESOME. Unfortunately I only just heard about it, is there any way for me to participate starting this late in the challenge?

twidup
01-19-2007, 04:39 PM
pyro, of course

with the schedule for this first one, there is plenty of time to catch up.

cheers
-todd

Haker
01-19-2007, 07:52 PM
Oh sorry. I didn't know that the .obj importer doesn't work. :(

Blender imports the .obj perfectly, It even imported the armor exactly in place, what are you talking about.

Sbowling
01-25-2007, 03:25 AM
Did I read that right? One (1) month to build a torso rig? That doesn't sound right... I'm not trying to sound like I'm some kind of rigging master but seriously, a month is a long time for a torso, let alone a whole rig.

Not if you're using lightwave to rig. :eek:

Sbowling
01-25-2007, 03:27 AM
Yeah, I can post the LWO as well, but as with the others, it will be frozen at level 2, so everyone has the same mesh.


All users should have the EXACT same mesh. If people using lightwave are using a much lower resolution rig it would give them a major advantage. It takes much more skill to rig a high resolution maesh over a low resolution mesh.

twidup
01-25-2007, 01:19 PM
Hey Sam,

yup, exactly why I would have frozen it.

MrHobby
02-09-2007, 11:41 PM
Just a quick question, can we do the facial rigging anyway? I won't use it for the challenge and it wont deform the face, it just feels weird to build the entire rig and not do the face.
It would just be for personal use to play with anyway.

twidup
02-10-2007, 03:21 PM
Yeha, if you feel compelled to doa facial rig, go ahead

N8Girard
02-15-2007, 06:55 AM
twidup,

what happened to all of the other threads? were they deleted because of inactivity? do we have to repost our submissions for the arms? or should we keep all of our posts in the torso threads? I know there were more ppl registered with this challenge that I was watching but they are all gone! were some ppl disqualified? retracted? or just inactive? when does the legs rigging begin and should we start new threads for them?

N8

twidup
02-15-2007, 01:15 PM
crap, yeah, it had to be inactivity.

From here on out, keep it in the original thread. I will talk to admin and see if we can get them back

The leg riggin will start up next week. Xenoid is going to be announcing it because i am moving and will have sporitic internet for a while

-todd

Dimich
03-16-2007, 05:51 PM
Just wanted to make sure: can we use the model for a demo reel?

twidup
03-20-2007, 05:05 PM
sorry on teh delay to reply.

Just make sure you credit William Vaughn with the modeling work. if William is reading this and doesnt want people using the model on rigging reels, will you please speak up?

thanks
-todd

diegosocart12
03-21-2007, 02:39 PM
Is it too late to get started on this challenge, especially since it was started in December?

twidup
03-21-2007, 08:15 PM
Nope, you can still join in.

The only thing, there will be a new one starting up probably the first of May, and there will be a LOT of changes for it. Mainly, we will be going to a 1 month challenge, with a month off between then.

-todd

dude5487
03-22-2007, 02:54 AM
Is there any discussion or any topic on the forum about the new rigging challenge?

diegosocart12
03-22-2007, 03:11 AM
Thank you for getting back to me. I will work a little on this challenge just for myself, and if I do not finish on time, I will at least have another example of rigging and more practice. I will be looking to start the new competition in May though. I can't wait. What kinds of things are you looking at as wishing the rig can do? I guess I am unfamiliar with how this works. I read the first page with the rules and it sounds like as long as everything is functional, that is what matters. Should we add more to the rig if it is not needed? Thanks again.

mustan9
03-22-2007, 05:27 PM
I just found this thread today. I would love to join a rigging challenge!

When is the next one, and what's the topic!

twidup
03-24-2007, 01:34 PM
This one kinda feel apart because of the length that was given originally.

So, sticking with the original schedule, it will end April 17. The next one will start on May 1st. Right now, I am looking for models to use for the next one. Need something challenging, or something that will provide a difficult task.

The current one, artists were given 1 month per body segment. With the next one, it will be one month for everything, so you have to have a good idea from the start, and just hit it running.

The one month will include rigging, weighting, building the control system, as well as all deformer work and skinning

-todd

dukedanuke
04-10-2007, 10:09 PM
This contest is almost over was under the impression it was just started... i cant wait for the next one, will it also be a biped charecter?

twidup
04-12-2007, 09:33 PM
not sure.

might do a vehicle for the May challenge.

There has been some talk of doing a joint challenge...a 2d challenge to create a concept, then the winner's design is passed to a modeling challenge, hten the model to the rigging and texturing challenges, then on to animation (which would also mean doing a segmented character), and finally on to lighting, rendering and compositing

Cactus Dan
04-12-2007, 10:06 PM
Howdy,

How about something like this for a challenge? :D
http://www.cactus3d.com/BullRider.mov

Adios,
Cactus Dan

twidup
04-13-2007, 12:22 AM
lol, thats pretty cool actually.

That was similiar to one of the ideas I had in mind for downt he road, more goal oriented rigging.

well, I got 3 weeks to come up with something still

cheers
-todd

Cactus Dan
04-13-2007, 02:57 AM
Howdy,

Heheh, thanks Todd.

Was actually planning to do some tutorials on my rigging plugins using that one, if I can ever find the time. :blush:

Adios,
Cactus Dan

danb
04-13-2007, 03:05 AM
You know what would be an excellent challenge? A transformer rig? Did i already mention this? Don't know this thread is long and old now.

Anyways i was talking to danny montenegro about this idea. He had a good idea bout how we could have a human drive the movements of the transformer. Sort of like in Aliens when Sigourney Weaver gets in that robot and kicks the aliens butt.

This would be a hugely intense rigging session. One needs to rig the transforming of the object and then rig the transformer so it can be driven by the character. So there would be 3 rigs to make; character, transformer character, and transforming object. Lots of good stuff to learn in there. Highly technical. Could even add hoses and belts, or shutters for eyes, for some more challenge.

This way we sort of encompass almost everything about rigging, the deformation of the character and the technical stuff about the transformer.

I was going to create this tutorial for c4d portal. I still haven't found the time to do it. :(

dukedanuke
04-13-2007, 02:49 PM
danb that would be awsome, i would love to see that contest , would defintly learn a boatload from attempting that and get feedback from you guys, any good rig tuts any1 knows of medium difficulty, would be appreciated!!

pooby
04-15-2007, 10:30 AM
I think the nature of the challenges ought to be to achieve something thats extraordinary.
It's not much of a challenge otherwise, it's just going through the motions and re-doing what you usually do.
If you set a REALLY hard challenge then people can club together and work it out as a team to pull off something really cool, rather than just showing their own methods on how they usually rig an arm or spine etc.

The transformer rig could be cool, but I think it might be quite modelling-dependant.

other ideas could be

A really fat person's neck and head

a hand rig with soft tissue and tendons deformations

a wing rig that works nicely extended, but also when retracted close to the body

a character that can morph and shapeshift. Ie, the head can change into the arm and it still animates ok.

instruct9r
04-30-2007, 08:11 PM
i think the idea with the vehicle chalenge is pretty good.. this way a lot of people (modelers, riggers, animators, etc) will see their work finished .... Anyway i will definitely participate in the next chalenge :thumbsup:

Tripple-I
05-02-2007, 05:58 PM
Now that i know about the challenge, can't wait for the next one. . . this is also great cuz you cant find to many free descent models out there to work on. I agree with everyone that the challenge should be a challenge, lets do something tough!!

danb
05-03-2007, 12:55 AM
Yeah i agree. Its got to be TOUGH. Last one i didn't finish because it was something i already have done many, many, many times. Not much of a challenge. Although i'm sure it would have been a challenge for the newb.

twidup
05-03-2007, 09:49 AM
Sorry I havent started a new one yet. I have been so busy with getting trailer shots done for a project and teaching the rigging class in the workshop area, that I havent been able to talk to a few modelers about things.

It sounds like everyone is either up for a really challenging character or a vehicle. I am going to start a new thread for a poll as to a couple different ideas for 1 month challenges, or maybe a couple 2 week micro challenges, and we will doa couple fo those.

-todd

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