PDA

View Full Version : Luxology show the upcoming sculpt tools inside Modo


juanjgon
12-08-2006, 10:15 PM
Today Luxology show a preview about new sculpting tools inside next revision of Modo ... you can download the video here http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=13616

Direct video download http://content.luxology.com/modo/201/video/modoTechPreview.mov

.

vlad74
12-09-2006, 12:19 AM
That is quite impresive.

P_T
12-09-2006, 12:31 AM
I thought that "Sculpt" tool was just going to be a basic one for blocking out shape, but that was actually quite a comprehensive. It even has image based brush and stencil! Very nice indeed. Look forward to the next Modo release.

Antropus
12-09-2006, 01:02 AM
Great modeling package, good UV tools, great render engine and now this... I'm really well impressed.

-Kris

lildragon
12-09-2006, 02:46 AM
This is seriously tight. I never had any real reason to try Modo before, but I will now. I wonder how many polys that mesh was, it's extremely responsive for the amount of detail it's holding.

I love competition :)

Cheers

Mike RB
12-09-2006, 06:32 AM
Very nice, I hope Lux will post more videos like that. I like sneak previews.

CaptainObvious
12-09-2006, 06:59 AM
This is seriously tight. I never had any real reason to try Modo before, but I will now. I wonder how many polys that mesh was, it's extremely responsive for the amount of detail it's holding.

I love competition :)

Cheers
Depending on your hardware, it's usually smooth sailing well into the millions on a single subdivision surface mesh.

js33
12-09-2006, 07:34 AM
Now we just need animation and we will be set.

csutcliffe
12-09-2006, 09:09 AM
I think we can forget about Zbrush vs Mudbox as I think we've just found the winner providing it can handle the polycount.

StefanA
12-09-2006, 09:28 AM
Since they never talk about a linux version I see myself looking at apple.com a hell of a lot more often :) Now that Maya 8.5 will be intel compiled the mac based studio is looking more and more as an option.

Looks really nice, and on top of it they already have a decent paint built in.

regards
stefan andersson

yog
12-09-2006, 09:37 AM
I must admit that I wasn't expecting this from Luxology, but it's certainly a pleasant surprise.

I think we can forget about Zbrush vs Mudbox as I think we've just found the winner providing it can handle the polycount.As Brad Peebler said himself, this is a technology preview only, so if you want high detailed sculpting in the near future you are better going for Z-Brush or Mudbox.
Don't forget that Modo 201 was only released in May. so the next major release could be between some and several months away.

I did like the quote from the weekly modcast :
"Some people may think that it's a coincidence we are putting out this technology preview at a time when similar applications are in the news .... well duh !" :D

My personal feeling is that Luxology will have to work really hard to have their sculpting features anywhere comparable to specialist programs like Z-Brush and Mudbox. Then again, their 3D painting element is certainly comparable to other specialist 3D painters I have used, so it is possible.

cresshead
12-09-2006, 10:33 AM
certainly is a somewhat surprising move...modo having tools like that of hexagon and silo2 beta looks like all the stand alone modelers will be implementing a z brush/mudbox style capability which is interesting to say the least...now modo is the only 'modleing app' out of the above which also has a full on renderer/painter and poly modeling toolset...z brush is almost there but isn't full featured poly modeler...

interesting times!

so...what next?....animation, bones , fx....full on studio app to rival maya, max lw, xsi?

CaptainObvious
12-09-2006, 10:39 AM
Since they never talk about a linux version I see myself looking at apple.com a hell of a lot more often :) Now that Maya 8.5 will be intel compiled the mac based studio is looking more and more as an option.

Looks really nice, and on top of it they already have a decent paint built in.

regards
stefan andersson
The Linux version of modo is in beta testing, but I wouldn't count on it being released any time soon.



so...what next?....animation, bones , fx....full on studio app to rival maya, max lw, xsi?
Not next, but yeah, it's coming sooner or later.

ThomasMahler
12-09-2006, 11:10 AM
Okay, I think it was pretty obvious that Modo would sooner or later get some sculpting tools.

But I'm with yog here: It's a technology preview, so maybe getting excited right now isn't the best thing to do. Pixologic showed some technology previews of ZBrush 2.5 back in November 2004. 2 years ago - and 2.5 still isn't ready for the masses, since there are just so many things that have to go into this. Nevercenter is in the same situation, allthough 2.0 is shaping up really nicely.

Let's keep that in mind. In the video, they don't really show anything that can't be done in any of the other sculpting packages (and I wouldn't say that that model was that detailed) - what Luxology has to come up with, what I think will be the holy grail of sculpting tools is that we finally can sculpt without topology (and hopefully without polygon limits) in mind and lay out the topo later on without losing the work we put into the sculpture. That's where things have to go and that's what I'm expecting. Take the computer crap out of the design stage and simplify the process that it takes to create a good topo for a character.

This preview is nice and all and I really like having a package where I can paint, sculpt and do render-tests, but in reality, I just want a tool that let's me design and not lose work after the design stage. Right now, we're in a hodge-podge situation, where you have to go from a to b to c and if you screw up once, you screw up the whole pipeline. I really hope they're thinking of this and aren't just doing what everyone else is doing, but think ahead of their competitors.

In the end, I don't think we'll see a 301 version before Fall 2007, I wouldn't even be surprised if it'd become Summer of 2008 until the final finally ships. It just takes a huge amount of time to get it just right, so let's not get excited too soon. Mudbox and ZBrush are what's available, with Silo 2.0 being able to do pretty much what we've seen here except for the texture painting. We'll see how things turn out.

jeremybirn
12-09-2006, 11:23 AM
Alright. I am officially impressed.

-jeremy

robkoni
12-09-2006, 01:50 PM
Looks Quite amazing to me ,easier to use than Z-brush ,and fully iintergrated into a Modelling UVing ,Painting package.........woohhhayyyy.
Thomas ,I think your missing the point with how few Polys the Object had....that seemed to be the point ,its that he was doing incredibly dense and complex Displacement on a realy low poly mesh:eek:

I'm with you on the Preview thing though ,they have to come up with the goods sooner than later ,however Lux are generaly pretty Reliable on this one.......Interseting times....suddenly spoilt for Choice:bounce:

mushroomgod
12-09-2006, 02:57 PM
looks very cool.

I tryed Modo, but I couldnt get my head around the fact that it didnt have pivots and selecting object where a pain in the arse compared to max/silo/maya etc. if they fixed that Id use it without any problems.

Mike RB
12-09-2006, 03:03 PM
looks very cool.

I tryed Modo, but I couldnt get my head around the fact that it didnt have pivots and selecting object where a pain in the arse compared to max/silo/maya etc. if they fixed that Id use it without any problems.

It does have pivots.

private
12-09-2006, 03:07 PM
Looks impressive. However, I'm equally impressed, if not more, with Silo's 2.0 Beta. It's a good time for modelers!

ViCoX
12-09-2006, 03:22 PM
Thats pretty cool indeed, how many polys it can handle? Brad didint mention it.
Imo, mudbox is still whole lot faster than modo, but as an modonaut I have to say thats Sexy.
Modo 301, animation, sculpting, painting and rendering.. Ah, thats just fast work, I wonder if it is nexus behind all this. ; )
Cheers

yolao
12-09-2006, 03:38 PM
Looks impressive. However, I'm equally impressed, if not more, with Silo's 2.0 Beta. It's a good time for modelers!

i agree.

I try modo demo some time ago and i did not like the navigation system for rotate around the objects,... it is not as smooth as it is in silo or maya.

anyways it looks great.:thumbsup:

ViCoX
12-09-2006, 03:42 PM
I try modo demo some time ago and i did not like the navigation system for rotate around the objects,... it is not as smooth as it is in silo or maya.
You probably had trackball rotation on? try to disable it : )
Cheers.

robkoni
12-09-2006, 04:33 PM
Sorry guys you got to be kidding about Pivots and rotations ,Modo just leaves Maya standing on this one ,and most other apps...try thr Action centers ...so Powerfull

Mike RB
12-09-2006, 04:38 PM
Sorry guys you got to be kidding about Pivots and rotations ,Modo just leaves Maya standing on this one ,and most other apps...try thr Action centers ...so Powerfull

I think he ment "item pivots".. but of course it has those... oh well.

ChewyPixels
12-09-2006, 04:44 PM
Definitely impressive! :buttrock: Don' you just love competition? :)

Damn, I just wish I had taken advantage of the huge discount they had back when it first came out. :banghead:

sacslacker
12-09-2006, 04:52 PM
Sorry guys you got to be kidding about Pivots and rotations ,Modo just leaves Maya standing on this one ,and most other apps...try thr Action centers ...so Powerfull

Not everyone is sold on action centers. I'm one of them. I like modo but I'm not a huge fan of the action center system at all.

yolao
12-09-2006, 05:13 PM
You probably had trackball rotation on? try to disable it : )
Cheers.

thanks, i will try that when i try modo demo again.... I think it will be when that sculpting tools become available.

cheers

yolao
12-09-2006, 05:16 PM
Not everyone is sold on action centers. I'm one of them. I like modo but I'm not a huge fan of the action center system at all.

is action center the option that where you click it become the center pivot?... if so, i`m not a fan either.... at all...

Mike RB
12-09-2006, 05:20 PM
no, action centers is the name of the whole system of pivots and coordinate systems... the one you dislike is a setting among many called "automatic".

chadmv
12-09-2006, 05:23 PM
I started learning Modo a couple of weeks ago coming from Silo and Maya. At first I didn't like it and I was a bit slow doing a lot of things. I even made the navigation work like Maya. But then once you get used to it and use it more, you begin to realize how powerful Modo is. I even switched the navigation controls back to the Modo default. And now Modo is my main modeling package. I can't wait for the new sculpting system.

juanjgon
12-09-2006, 05:32 PM
The main change from other packages to modo is the layers workflow ... but if you think that a layer is a object, is a good begining. After try a lot of packages, modo is my choice for modeling ... not only for the actual version 202, but for the incredible future i think that this app could have.

Mike RB
12-09-2006, 05:36 PM
thats what throws most people. Geometry creation tools always do a "combine" to the currently selected mesh, so no, that cube you just added to spaceship_hull_outer_7 dosent have its own item pivot...

P_T
12-09-2006, 05:41 PM
For the navigation rotation, think of it as turning the object instead of the camera like in Maya. There is of course an option to make it turn the camera like in other software.

In my opinion, there's still room for improvement in Modo's modelling tools before they should move on to animation. With this sculpting tools being introduced in the next major release, there should be one or two more upgrades before animation is introduced.

DimitrisLiatsos
12-09-2006, 05:46 PM
Impressive !....i must admit i had my eye on Modo long time now....maybe the time to pick this one up is coming....my Mac can't wait....:bounce:

Nichod
12-09-2006, 07:02 PM
Don't forget Blender. I've tested it recently and the performance is on par with Silo 2.

Hardly perfect but from an old build: http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marswarriorgx1.jpg

Modo looks like a good implementation. I think this will be a point release not a full release.

tikal26
12-09-2006, 07:17 PM
Since they never talk about a linux version I see myself looking at apple.com a hell of a lot more often :) Now that Maya 8.5 will be intel compiled the mac based studio is looking more and more as an option.

Looks really nice, and on top of it they already have a decent paint built in.

regards
stefan andersson
Her eis the latest office reply
http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=13304&show=linux

if you are interested make sure you add your input to the post since apparently they though taht there was no interest on the linux build.

Serraph
12-09-2006, 07:22 PM
I'm glad they posted that vid. I can tell you that Modo has saved me countless hours in modeling/uv task time. Just such a relief from doing things in Maya. I found myself on highend3d looking for some sort of 'PolyBoost equivalent' for Maya. I think it's called modo.

I have no problem running four programs to do different tasks, but I'll be more than happy to just do everything inside one app (in the long run). I'd like to consolidate my upgrade costs wherever possible. Modo's foundation is solid. It's great to see them build upon it so quickly.

csutcliffe
12-09-2006, 07:23 PM
My personal feeling is that Luxology will have to work really hard to have their sculpting features anywhere comparable to specialist programs like Z-Brush and Mudbox. Then again, their 3D painting element is certainly comparable to other specialist 3D painters I have used, so it is possible.

It's possible that the sculpting tools have been in dev for a while now and they've had the benefit of lots of feedback from people who've been dissapointed about certain features or lack of them in ZB. However, I certainly take your point as even with solid sculpting tools, ZB, and soon to be MB, will still be superior for the ultra high poly sculpts I'm sure. Where Modo can hopefully succeed is that it's a traditional modelling package. If you combine this with the ability to sculpt a 4-6M poly model on a relatively modest machine you probably have a recipe for success.

Anyhow, I'm sure we'll even see ZB 2.5 a long time before this is released (Hopefully anyway)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phil Lawson
12-09-2006, 07:28 PM
Her eis the latest office reply
http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=13304&show=linux

if you are interested make sure you add your input to the post since apparently they though taht there was no interest on the linux build.

There was some interest - just not much... :)

SunDog101
12-09-2006, 07:36 PM
I was looking at getting a copy of a sculpting package like Mudbox or Zbrush but I am in no rush so I will just wait for Modo to have it. I am sure it will have a full animation toolset soon as well. Once it's a full pipeline package I can't see myself needing Lightwave anymore unless I keep it for old time sake. :)

Mike RB
12-09-2006, 08:31 PM
Modo looks like a good implementation. I think this will be a point release not a full release.

He says in his podcast that it will be featured in the "next major release", and said he wanted to show what will be "available in 2007".

mech7
12-09-2006, 08:57 PM
looks cool.. tried modo once though and didn't get much of the interface but i must admin havent put allot of time in learning it either :D

Intervain
12-09-2006, 09:42 PM
I like the projection/stencil or whatever you want to call it tool but I hate the quasi-maya artisan tool... The sort of painting but still without touching the surface was never touchy-feely enough for my liking, I'm sticking to XSI's proportional tool here or just zbrush. Either way it's still quite an interesting package on the whole and I'm really tempted to try it out.

Per-Anders
12-09-2006, 09:46 PM
Don't forget Blender. I've tested it recently and the performance is on par with Silo 2.

Hardly perfect but from an old build: http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marswarriorgx1.jpg

Modo looks like a good implementation. I think this will be a point release not a full release.

Nichod, please don't troll. This thread is about Modo and not about Blender.

Back on topic, this looks like they've done a very nice job all in all so well done to the Lux team. It would be nice to know a few more details such as the machine it's being shown on's specs and the overall polycount.

Womball
12-09-2006, 09:58 PM
I kind of wish it were around 400-500 dollars though. Its seems like a great package, but a tad bit overpriced. At 900 its a bit steep for what it does, compared to other programs.

Mike RB
12-09-2006, 10:07 PM
Overpriced? Compared to what? Not that im saying they are equal, but add up silo, bodypaint, and maxwell and see how much that costs... nevermind plugging in zbrush...

XSI foundations giveaway price has spoiled us.

Womball
12-09-2006, 10:32 PM
Blender (extremely nice price) and zbrush have very nice prices too. :D Silo is nice too. Um I don't think modo's render is similar to maxwell. I'm hoping to see more price drops in all apps, since its good for the customer. 500 bucks isn't really a giveaway price either. Maybe for a studio it is, but for a single person 500 bucks is still quite a bit of money.

Now if modo offered animation features that were on par with XSI or Maya's I would think the 900 bucks is justified than.

mech7
12-09-2006, 10:45 PM
Yeah the price is a bit high.. but isn't mudbox going to cost over $600 and that is just a sculpting app. You can't even render anything with it, so price is relative

havokzprodigy
12-09-2006, 11:04 PM
I don't understand why people are so worried if a sculpting app has a renderer or not.

Tons of studios use zbrush for sculpting do any of them use the renderer in the pipeline?

yog
12-09-2006, 11:07 PM
I'm hoping to see more price drops in all apps, since its good for the customer. Maybe good for the customer in the short term, but possibly not in the long term.
If a product is too cheep then it is is hard for the developer to make a profit. If the developer cannot make a profit, then they shut up shop. The more companies that shut up shop, the less competition, the worse it is for the customer.

Autodesk is a good example of a company that doesn't feel the hot breath of competition breathing down it's neck. Realistically, how much have Autodesk developed MAX in the last few years ? (and I speak as a MAX owner).

leuey
12-10-2006, 02:36 AM
One of the things being overlooked I think is that being able to sculpt in Modo will allow you to make tweaks and changes even if your main sculpting app is mudbox or zbrush. Similar to how you can use Modo's painting tools to add detail to or touch up images coming from photoshop. Imagine fllipping over to a facial morph and sculpting some additional detail on the fly without having to run the whole import/export rigamaroll. The benefits to adding this capability to a core program are numerous.


Oh...and modo is worth the time to explore fully (an experienced artists time is worth far more than a few hundred or thousand dollar program as it is). I was at first confounded by the action centers (being used to LW and Maya) - but once you 'get it' the action centers+falloffs+workplane+toolpipe have no equivalent in any other package (until they all try to copy modo at least).

Also modo's less expensive than every third party renderer available for Max or Maya that I can think of - and arguably equal to or superior. Sure, pricing is relative and anything can be deemed too expensive for the hobbyist. But for a pro tool it's pretty much negligable.

best,

Greg

juanjgon
12-10-2006, 09:54 AM
I really cant undestand people who say that 900$ is big for a professional application like Modo. Come on ... only half commercial archviz project pays the bill ... this kind of prices war only becomes in a slow and poor development ... if you are a professional geting thousands of dollars with your work, 900$ is simple a ridiculous price ... i prefer to pay three times this price to get a solid, stable, advanced and fast growing application ... and if you are a hoobiest, play with free software, demos and so on ... like you must to do with other hobbies ... no one have a F1 car because he likes cars, and no one have a Top500 supercomputer because he likes computers, and no one has 15000$ photographic equipment because he likes photograph.

3D applications are a very, very complex software, with a very limited distribution ... the war of prices is a obstacle for the advance in the world of 3D app ... we as professionals must know that like a professional photographer needs a professional equipment of thousands of dollars, far of hobbiest camera, we need professional applications ...

Small companies, like Luxology, need a lot of years of development to make a app like Modo, they are perhaps 10 people working on it ... and perhaps if modo price was 1200$ they could have 15 people ... price diference for me is ridiculous, but the diference in development roadmap could be big.

Of course this is only my oppinion ... it is hard, but i think that a price range of about 1200$ to 3000$ for professional software is more realisitc, and beleave me ... we all win if small companies, like Luxology, have budget to speed up app development of his 3d app ... unless you want to play with Autodesk the rest of your days ...


Best regards,
Juan J. Gonzalez

Kabab
12-10-2006, 10:39 AM
I have said the same thing over and over again about 3d dcc software being to cheap particularly something like XSI but i would always get flamed..

I'm happy others share the same opinion.

Phrenzy84
12-10-2006, 10:51 AM
i would have been all over this but modo for me is a little cumbersome, i mostly do organic modelling and have asked other modo users (privately) how do you work with modo with organic meshes but alot of responses were either i dont use it for organic or a workflow that was a bit non-intuitive.

I thought i wouldnt mind modo with the action centers and stuff because i use wings3d, but it isnt as fast, i dont mind i have a workflow that works, but if you use modo for organics then this is one of the best packages ever.

SunDog101
12-10-2006, 03:42 PM
I kind of wish it were around 400-500 dollars though. Its seems like a great package, but a tad bit overpriced. At 900 its a bit steep for what it does, compared to other programs.

The power of 2 promo gets you $200 off. Thats what sucked me into getting my copy of Modo finally since I already have a registered copy of Lightwave.

phlewp
12-10-2006, 03:55 PM
Depending on your hardware, it's usually smooth sailing well into the millions on a single subdivision surface mesh.

Really? On my system, which is nothing special, but not a dog, modo struggles with a single 75k poly subd mesh. AMD64 3800+ X2, 4 gigs of ram, GF6800 GT. Again, nothing special, but not a terrible system. I just find it hard to believe that unless you've got a real powerhouse of a machine, that it's "smooth sailing well into the millions on a single subd surface mesh". What kind of system are you running? I'm not trying to knock modo, it's my app of choice for modelling and rendering stills, and it's easily my favorite 3d app I've had the pleasure of using. (I've only used Maya, LW, and *gag* trueSpace though, so my experience is somewhat limited. (as well as Zbrush for sculpting, and played around with Silo quite a bit, and toyed with Hexagon briefly. I'll give Silo some more time once v2 is out though, as I've yet to even download and use the beta, since modo does everything I want, and very well)

i agree.

I try modo demo some time ago and i did not like the navigation system for rotate around the objects,... it is not as smooth as it is in silo or maya.

anyways it looks great.:thumbsup:

You can navigate in modo pretty much exactly how you can in Maya. In fact, the first thing I did was set it up to behave like Maya in terms of navigation. It has presets for setting the nav controls to Silo, Maya, XSI, C4D, LW, and 3DS Max.

I kind of wish it were around 400-500 dollars though. Its seems like a great package, but a tad bit overpriced. At 900 its a bit steep for what it does, compared to other programs.

I believe they have a discount for users of other apps, which knocks the price down by 200 USD, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I can understand some thinking it's overpriced, but I think it's well worth the money (then again, I bought 103 with a free upgrade to 201 back when they had the special that I think set the price around 600USD). Also, I can't foresee the price going up awhole lot, and modo will offer animation in the future, and as we've seen, also sculpting. So when this happens, I think the price, even if slightly more expensive than the current price, will be more than reasonable. And actually, I guess I don't really understand the arguement that's overpriced. I guess I should say "I can understand hobbyists not being able to justify 900 dollars for modo". modo is not meant for hobbyists though. It's a professional tool, and well worth the money, especially for a studio.

i would have been all over this but modo for me is a little cumbersome, i mostly do organic modelling and have asked other modo users (privately) how do you work with modo with organic meshes but alot of responses were either i dont use it for organic or a workflow that was a bit non-intuitive.

I thought i wouldnt mind modo with the action centers and stuff because i use wings3d, but it isnt as fast, i dont mind i have a workflow that works, but if you use modo for organics then this is one of the best packages ever.

I think modo is great for organics AND hard surface type modelling. I don't know what workflows you're referring to that are non-intuitive. You can model in modo just like any other app really. Be it edge extruding/extending methods, box modelling, or what have you. In fact, I find modo to be completely the opposite of cumbersome for modelling. I find it very intuitive, and when you start using some of the more advanced tools, and become comfortable with modo, it's very fast and intuitive. It just works like I think a modeller should. I'll try and look around for some good modo specific tutorials for you, and PM you in the near future if you'd like.

I don't understand why people are so worried if a sculpting app has a renderer or not.

Tons of studios use zbrush for sculpting do any of them use the renderer in the pipeline?

Having the renderer in modo is nice because as a texturing/painting app, it's nice to be able to see your work, without having to export it to another app. Also, factor in that modo will eventually have animation, and it becomes an all in one type of solution. Also, a lot of people like to render out their models, so again, it's nice to have the option without having to send it to another app just for rendering.

claybub
12-10-2006, 03:58 PM
Thats very impressive. I may actually be converted if they keep pushing out features like this. The price doesnt bother me at all. 900 bucks for a full modeling/sculpting/texturing package is much cheaper than buying xsi foundation/photoshop/zbrush-or-mudbox. I'm looking forward to more updates! :)

Phrenzy84
12-10-2006, 04:03 PM
I think modo is great for organics AND hard surface type modelling. I don't know what workflows you're referring to that are non-intuitive. You can model in modo just like any other app really. Be it edge extruding/extending methods, box modelling, or what have you. In fact, I find modo to be completely the opposite of cumbersome for modelling. I find it very intuitive, and when you start using some of the more advanced tools, and become comfortable with modo, it's very fast and intuitive. It just works like I think a modeller should. I'll try and look around for some good modo specific tutorials for you, and PM you in the near future if you'd like.



This is just for my workflow, i think i work differently than most people im too fussy :). If your looking for how i work i did a bunch of videos in wings3d. Have a look at them, i find no manipulators yet still select what you want to move an element along, tweaking, right-click confirm left click cancel very useful.

I cant really explain it but check out the videos they will shed some light.

think modo is great if you used to it and are open enough to use it.

Womball
12-10-2006, 04:08 PM
I seriously doubt that lowering prices will effect them that much. Why can open source software consistantly make huge upgrades, and not charge anything?

Isn't it software support and training which makes the money for the software company? Would they stand to loose that much money if prices were lower?

Like I said before, add rigging and animation, than 900 bucks is a good deal. When they do this I will seriously look into them. I'm not a hobbyist btw, but a student studying to be a professional. So I'm not making money off the software yet (there is licensing issues with the student versions that prevent you from doing this, understandably). Would the money thing not be an issue for a freelancer?

However, if you can render out an animation in less time, this is more than worth the cost.

jeremybirn
12-10-2006, 05:46 PM
I seriously doubt that lowering prices will effect them that much.

If you're a student, you'd be buying it at an educational discount, not the full list price. I agree that if they changed the price by a few hundred dollars, it wouldn't affect the number of users. However, it would have a huge impact on the company that tries to pay people's salary with that income.

-jeremy

Womball
12-10-2006, 06:04 PM
Doesn't that depend on the size of the company though? For a smaller company I could see that being an issue, I guess Luxology isn't that big yet. But for a big company like Autodesk, they could afford it.

SheepFactory
12-10-2006, 06:16 PM
Doesn't that depend on the size of the company though? For a smaller company I could see that being an issue, I guess Luxology isn't that big yet. But for a big company like Autodesk, they could afford it.



So you are saying if a company is big they should stop making money because they can afford to. I am not sure if the shareholders of autodesk will agree with you ;)

If you cant afford it save up your money or use something you can afford.

Womball
12-10-2006, 07:16 PM
Lowering cost doesn't mean they will lose all money.
And it could in turn cause more people to buy the product or more licenses of it.

What's the poly limit for displacement painting, and what features does it have that zbrush can not do? And can you really do UV unwraps in a couple of minutes? The licensing options look nice though as does the topology tool.

tin-tin
12-10-2006, 09:44 PM
well I managed to afford modo even though I am a student, not student license but full one. Luxology did a lot of discount offers with 201, like getting the free upgrade to 201 which was nice :)

Sculpting tools would be a nice addition, it would mean more work done inside modo and possible further detailing in zbrush or mudbox.

HamsaPaksham
12-11-2006, 12:12 AM
Wow! Im impressed. This one seemed to me to be the best solution in modeling!
Ive tried all the other modeling packages but this one seems the most complete and easier to use.

iratethemad
12-11-2006, 07:36 AM
Cant see the video what codec does it use?

Novakog
12-11-2006, 08:36 AM
iratethemad: I believe it's just H.264. Do you have QT 7?

phlewp: I think he's talking about OpenGL (and rendering) polys. Modo appears to be limited more by the scene polys than OpenGL polys. With a simple sphere subdivided to 1100 real polys, with a SubD level of 15, and 2 million OpenGL polys, it runs perfectly smooth on my 7600 GT. But with a quarter million flat scene polys polys, unsubdivided (for a half million OpenGL polys), it is seriously laggy. These are in Advanced OpenGL mode. Instances reduce this a lot. I assume this has to do with bus limitations between the CPU and RAM vs. the GPU and VRAM, but I really know very little about these things.

But for sculpting, OpenGL polys are basically all the matters. And Modo 202 can already bake displacements from high poly to low poly objects. So you could easily have a character that's sub 100k scene polys (10k would be sufficient in many cases), while working with some 2 million "actual" polys. That's assuming there are no speedups from here to there.

Also, it is dependent on VBOs. I think (emphasis on think, I do not know) that VBOs seriously speed up OpenGL performance, and slow down scene performance. Turning VBOs off, I can manage more like a half million scene non-SubD polys, but not a lot more than a million OpenGL polys. VBOs also do some other nice things; for instance, it makes it so that multiple viewports are no slower than one viewport, and that there is no lag when you open up an additional viewport.

daytona
12-11-2006, 08:53 AM
Looks great...and lets not forget it will work in OSX. I'll put money on it that it will be out before we see ZB 2.5 or Mubbox working in OSX.

CaptainObvious
12-11-2006, 09:12 AM
Also, it is dependent on VBOs. I think (emphasis on think, I do not know) that VBOs seriously speed up OpenGL performance, and slow down scene performance. Turning VBOs off, I can manage more like a half million scene non-SubD polys, but not a lot more than a million OpenGL polys. VBOs also do some other nice things; for instance, it makes it so that multiple viewports are no slower than one viewport, and that there is no lag when you open up an additional viewport.
I'm no expert by any means, but what I think happens is that VBOs puts more data on the GPU, meaning you make better use of the VRAM. However, once the VRAM runs out, it's not really going to help. In fact, I think it may do more damage than it does good after a certain point.

yacedotxdda
12-11-2006, 12:09 PM
I think Modo will become the 'daddy' so to speak. I like it more than Mudbox (tho the two are VERY similar). Dunno how the prices will compare though. ATM zbrush looks good at a low price, but I hate the feel of it, feels so alien. Modo is much more friendly. I think it's great.

Mike RB
12-11-2006, 05:15 PM
I like it more than Mudbox (tho the two are VERY similar).

Not sure what you mean by this, they are (or were) fundamentally 2 different ways to approach modelling. One is a highrez sculpter only and the other is a general purpose modelling app. They currently seems to work best in combo, like with Jacques work, base mesh in modo, sculpt and export disp map from mudbox, render in modo.

yacedotxdda
12-11-2006, 05:36 PM
if you r generating your normal maps in MAx for example, except you want to sculpt/refine then bring back into max, for games development i.e. no renderer required.

edt: I mean to have copies of both is luxury most do not afford - if your company buys u both then u r a happy camper!

DMack
12-11-2006, 05:57 PM
I really cant undestand people who say that 900$ is big for a professional application like Modo. Come on ... only half commercial archviz project pays the bill ... this kind of prices war only becomes in a slow and poor development ... if you are a professional geting thousands of dollars with your work,........


................i think that a price range of about 1200$ to 3000$ for professional software is more realisitc, and beleave me ... we all win if small companies, like Luxology, have budget to speed up app development of his 3d app ... unless you want to play with Autodesk the rest of your days ...


Best regards,
Juan J. Gonzalez

Quoted for complete agreement.

talos72
12-11-2006, 06:19 PM
Let's keep that in mind. In the video, they don't really show anything that can't be done in any of the other sculpting packages (and I wouldn't say that that model was that detailed) - what Luxology has to come up with, what I think will be the holy grail of sculpting tools is that we finally can sculpt without topology (and hopefully without polygon limits) in mind and lay out the topo later on without losing the work we put into the sculpture. That's where things have to go and that's what I'm expecting. Take the computer crap out of the design stage and simplify the process that it takes to create a good topo for a character.

This preview is nice and all and I really like having a package where I can paint, sculpt and do render-tests, but in reality, I just want a tool that let's me design and not lose work after the design stage. Right now, we're in a hodge-podge situation, where you have to go from a to b to c and if you screw up once, you screw up the whole pipeline. I really hope they're thinking of this and aren't just doing what everyone else is doing, but think ahead of their competitors.

As I watched the video, those exact thoughts went through my head: a day when you can sculpt almost anything from scratch (no base models) without worrying about topology, loops, poly-count, etc. Then we know a true breakthrough has come. Maybe it's only a matter of time.

As impressive as the vid is, we really have seen this stuff in Zbrush for a while...now they are being implemented into Modo: using alphas for sculpting, pinching and warping tools. This stuff has been in Zbrush for sometime. Still, Modo is a very capable tool and I guess these tools will enchance its functionality.

Again, it would be awesome to see a video where someone models a complete figure from scratch without worrying about topology at all.

yolao
12-12-2006, 02:25 PM
Let's keep that in mind. In the video, they don't really show anything that can't be done in any of the other sculpting packages (and I wouldn't say that that model was that detailed) - what Luxology has to come up with, what I think will be the holy grail of sculpting tools is that we finally can sculpt without topology (and hopefully without polygon limits) in mind and lay out the topo later on without losing the work we put into the sculpture. That's where things have to go and that's what I'm expecting. Take the computer crap out of the design stage and simplify the process that it takes to create a good topo for a character.



i also agree.

P_T
12-12-2006, 02:50 PM
Again, it would be awesome to see a video where someone models a complete figure from scratch without worrying about topology at all.While I agree with you about the breakthrough, the implication would also be a complete change of other 3D areas.

Rigging for instance, softwares like Face Robot would be rendered obsolete. Riggers would need to learn a new method from scratch.

Not only that, what about GPUs?

I wonder if polygon has become something like petrol/gasoline, without the negative externalities to the environment of course, but nevertheless, we're still stuck with it.

About the video, it's only a matter of time before sculpting tools become a standard feature in modelling softwares and as such, specialised softwares like ZB and MB would have to evolve as well if they want to stay.

poly-phobic
12-13-2006, 01:33 AM
talos72[/b]]Originally Posted by
Again, it would be awesome to see a video where someone models a complete figure from scratch without worrying about topology at all.


ClayTools (http://www.sensable.com/claytools-system-videos.htm)
is ahead of its time. not MB or ZB comes close to the sheer sculpting muscle of this nifty tool. no worries about topology. just add clay where u need. you can re-surface later within claytools system.
watch the videos.
this is pure digital "sculpey"
it may not be as popular as ZB or MB, because it requires hardware, and a niftty price tag, but imo, modo, or MB dont even come close. albeit ZB can do illustration and rendering, it doesnt come close to sculpting with this tool...

Womball
12-13-2006, 02:13 AM
So theoritically you could rough out a rough model in model from spheres, redo topology over that, and go from there?

Kanga
12-13-2006, 02:14 AM
Jeeze Louise!
That demo of Modo looked terrific.
Add sculpting to a great GUI and a very intuative app,... woohoo:buttrock:

CHRiTTeR
12-15-2006, 03:40 PM
I hope they wil implement such sculpting and painting tools in MAX too... :D

CGTalk Moderation
12-15-2006, 03:40 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.