Question about modelling theory/approach

[wonderpup]

I'm not an XSI user (yet!) But I guess the question's a general one. The thing is it's not about having to choose to model in polys or subdivisions- you kind of hop between both, especialy in the early stages of a model, when it can be easier to work with the simpler poly cage. I use lightwave and toggle subds on and off as I work- I'm sure XSI has a similar ability to toggle the subdivision state.

[dwigfor]

+ and - (numpad) go thru levels of subdivision. You can smooth it more than just the tab key in LW. Also, you can view the cage and the subdivided model, if that's how you like to work.

[dwigfor]

Also, related to subd's, read up on edge crease levels. For instance, create a cylinder, and tap the + key a couple of times. See how it's rounded? Select the outer ring of edges on the flat end, increase the edge crease value on it (right click, set edge crease). Notice how it's nice and tight now?

PS. Another tip for ya.. Selecting edge loops.. select one edge, hold alt and middle click the edge next to it - voila, edge loop selected.

[XYZRGB]

I'm a former user of Animation:Master as well.
Now that I use XSI, I have absolutely no regrets ...except that I didn't have XSI sooner.
The more that I use XSI, the more I love it.

[Pixelmech]

Thanks for the tips. I remember you Vegan from the forums. So you had no problem adjusting from patches to polys? I'm finding it fun and interesting, just have to really shift your thinking about how you are going to make a shape. Seems like the leap I'm going to have to make is learning all the tools on how to manipulate everything, and there seems like a lot of ways to do it. I'm definitely leaning toward purchasing this though, I'm really liking it.

I had started with the demo of Maya a while ago and it seemed overly complex compared to XSI.

[pooby]

I came from LW to XSI.. I imagined that I'd still use LW for modelling, and just XSI for rigging and animating. However, I find XSI's modelling to be MUCH easier than I'd imagined, and it took very little time to pick it up.
I haven't opened LW up for quite a while now as I find XSI's tools easy to use and very quick.

The subdivision surface thing is really straightforward. think of it as just a post process smoothing thing. You model in polys and don't have to worry about the Subd's, just crank it up and down whenever you want just to check how it looks - it doesn't affect the underlying poly model in any way.

[XYZRGB]

As far as the learning curve goes from patches to polys .. it is very frustating.
After years of dabbling in 3D, you become a noob all over again.

You were asking about Maya. Part of the reason that I went with XSI, was that someone very highly respected in the A:M community - that has used both Maya and XSI - stated to me that XSI would have a shorter learning curve.

I'm glad I went with XSI. ( insert commercial jingle here )

Something that you must try are the prebuilt rigs in XSI. You can have a character set up in minutes !

Wait till you check out. You gonna dig this !

[mocaw]

I remember trying AM about ten years ago- and it caused me to give up on trying to do organic modeling for three years! I went back to Rhino and Max. Later I try LW- and found that polygon->subdivision modeling made so much sense. I don't think once you get going you'll have problems, point out and box modeling are WAY faster in MHO.

Thinking about modeling in AM still gives me shivers....

[norvman]

I can understand your frustration with using a new program.... XSI however really is a powerfull piece of software... the way it all works takes a bit of getting use to ... but once your use to it you wonder why you ever liked doing it any other way...

my suggestion is try to find ways to do what you were doing in A:M in XSI and that will lighten the load a bit...

SubD's in my opinion are way better than Nurb patches...

just think... you never have to stich again and that alone should convince you to use SubDs

[Pixelmech]

Thanks Mocaw - can you describe what 'point out' modeling is?

Norvman - yeah, I don't miss stitching one bit :) I'm getting more comfortable with the modeling tools. I guess it's just a matter of figuring out what process to do when you want a specific shape. In AM of course, I knew exactly how to do it. Now I have to go through that whole process again. I've been laying my hands on every decent modeling tute I can find (things are starting to get redundant now). And I bought two XSI books, which have been very helpful. I will probably be buying XSI 6 when my demo runs out - looking forward to it.

[mocaw]

Point out is basically doing patch modeling...but you also use extrude features etc. when you can take advantage of them. So for instance you'd start with the eye as a elliptical group of polygons...select the outside edges in XSI and extrude them out. Then adjust the points...rinse and repeat. You kind of would do something like a face in point out just like you might do a car...kind of break it down into several elements (such as the inner bridge-eye-upper cheek-and temple region as one), do point out on them, and then patch them together.

To be hones I haven't done it much lately because XSI is really easy to do box modeling in and supports CC sub divisions well...and I bought a little thing called zbrush...

I find pointout is a very accurate way to work though from photo reference and/or real models, but it is one of the more time consuming ways to work. You also end up with really nice poly flow doing it this way.

Some also call this detail out- since you often start at the most detailed areas and extrude and work out from those points (which also controls polygon levels).

Here is a link- who every did the model should have taken more time IMHO as it's a bit rough and angular which isn't really what point out is about...but it demonstrates the technique.

http://www.creativecow.net/show.php?forumid=1&page=/articles/labelle_jannis/head_ee/index.html

Here is another example of the other method- box modeling. It requires more skill in some ways and, depending on the model, more planning.

http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/modeling/headmodeling/index.html

[Pixelmech]

Thanks a lot for the knowledge, Mocaw, I will definitely check out those links. I've essentially been box modeling the car I am working on and I've learned a lot - including where I've made some pretty significant mistakes. It definitely takes more planning.

[mocaw]

You could use nurbs too...

[norvman]

great tutorial resources there Mocaw:thumbsup:

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