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webweapon
02-12-2003, 04:06 PM
I've been wanting to make a First Person Shooter (i.e. Enter The Matrix, Max Payne, 007) for a very long time. But I have absolutely no idea how! I have Lightwave 3d and some general knowledge, but not enough, I'm sure.

Are there any game machines that make it easy to design games just for fun with or anything? Or tutorials? Anything? Thanks for any help.

Justin

illOgic
02-12-2003, 04:11 PM
how we all wish it was that easy. It takes alot of planning, and alot of questions answered. there isnt just a way to build games. are you looking to do a mod? or purchase an existing engine? or build a new engine? this is just one question of like 4000. :)

CGmonkey
02-12-2003, 05:17 PM
Okey, my advice to you is to modify a game engine (half-life, quake 3 or unreal etc).

and oh just a side note, max payne and enter the matrix are not first person shooter, it's third person shooters! ;)

well anyway good luck!! :beer:

*yaya my 400th post*

hanzo
02-12-2003, 07:06 PM
Moding an existing game engine is a great Idea but, you may
want to check out (make sure to go to the about..)

http://www.blender3d.org/

This is a free open source game designing program.
(been work on as we speek) and looks very promising I've been
using it myself...

webweapon
02-12-2003, 09:31 PM
It'd be cooler for me, probably, to do a mod or modify a game engine! How is this done? Anyone have tutorials or basic knowledge? Thanks.

Oh, and sorry about the error. Third Person Shooter!

Ben Shore
02-12-2003, 09:50 PM
There are some fantastic tutorials posted on polycount.com, might want to check those out first :)

Also if you havn't done much programming before, might help to invest in a book or two on that.

draconix
02-13-2003, 01:37 AM
Also check out this thread:

Game Engines (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42521)

And good luck :thumbsup:

Titan
02-13-2003, 02:36 AM
hey man, there is a whole amateur
games community

check out http://www.darkbasic.com

this is an easy to use basic-esque programming language that compiles to C and works off the latest Direct X..

I t supports BSP and mesh def and just about any feature you could possibly want, and its easy to mock up game demos and get yourmodels in game quickly..
i'm a long time user and member of the DarkBasic forums and software
....
youre other best bet is to join a mod team...

Ionized
02-13-2003, 02:58 AM
Making a mod is a great way to gat a job in the industry if thats what you have in mind. It shows that your passionate about it and are willing to put in the sometimes tedious hours to complete something as complex as a game.

Making a game isn't really a solo effort though. You need people to do the programming, game design aswell as the art, even on something like a mod.

Make sure you choose the right team to join though if you want your work to see the light of day. I know a lot of mod teams fizzle halfway though due to lack of interest. Get to know the people a bit first before devoting yourself to it.

And definately check out www.polycount.com

Good luck.

Fortian
02-13-2003, 01:22 PM
Also, there is an outstanding forum for game developers :
http://www.gamedev.net/

Bet, you're gonna get what you want ... ;)

Good Luck ...

jzero
02-13-2003, 02:10 PM
If you are a wanna-be game artist, www.polycount.com is the ruler of the roost.

You might want to check out www.moddb.com, which won't tell you anything about HOW to do it, but it's an index and clearinghouse for mod projects of almost ALL kinds. You can probably hook up with an existing mod project/team there, although you should beware: the modding community, like any community, has its top shelf, it's bottom layer, and scads of BS throwers all about.

Good luck.

/jzero

bibi5000
02-13-2003, 02:13 PM
Making a game or a Mod isn't easy. I would suggest that you get a team together, then sit down and think about, what kind of a game/Mod you want to do, how much time and effort you have to spend on it and what engine you're going to use. Make a very detailed plan and start... Then the difficult part begins :)
Keeping a team together for the time you're developing can be difficult, so adjust your plans to the time and the nerves you have.

Good luck!

boywonder
02-13-2003, 02:52 PM
have to advertise Blitz3D
( www.blitzbasic.com )

It's easy-to-use game creation tool and you can do what kind of game you ever would want :)

kukukiki74
02-13-2003, 04:36 PM
First of all, good question, but it is very complex to answer. It all depends what you want to do. Here are somethings you can try.

If you want to use the existing game such as Medal of Honor, Quake 3, Unreal II.... You are creating a mod. Example would be counterstrike for Half Life.

I am sorry to say this to some folks, but those engines such as Blitz3D, Darkbasic, Blender Game Engine are not cut out for making first person shooter. When you have games like Medal of Honor, Unreal II, and UT2003 out there, it is very hard to impress any audience with above engines. You need something professional and reasonable in price and in quality.

Before you jump, you gotta think things through and do some research. Very first thing is to find out what YOU want to do. Are you a programmer? Artist? What do you want to do? Unless you are good at some area, it is hard to do it all by yourself. Get involved first and get some experience. Join a mod team. Join indy game deisgner's forum and listen in to what they have to say. See what other indy developers are doing with their precious free time.

There are alot of engines out there. Go find out for yourself, which engines suit you. I have practically tried every game engine you can think of. Here are some you may find interesting....

Torque (I am using this engine currently. www.garagegames.com)
Nebula (Pretty nice one....)
Free open source quake1 and quake 2 engine
Crystal engine (I don't like this one but you may...)
Ogre (Not complete...)
Fly3D (Impressive engine.... I think it's better than Quake 3 engine.... flexible and free I think....???)

I am a programmer with 3d cg as hobby. I am currently creating artwork for Torque game engine. I have the source code to torque. I have said this other thread... it's clean and fast engine with awesome netcode. It is basically tribes 2 engine with on-going development. I don't want to say too much, but try it. It's only $100!

Fortian
02-15-2003, 01:19 AM
kukukiki74 :
Good Point ... Nice explanation there ... ;)

I've visited garagegames ... very good site indeed ...
The engine is surely cheap. But, would it be sufficient to build
games such as counter-strike or even GTA3 ??

:rolleyes:

hanzo
02-15-2003, 01:47 AM
I think that depends on the artists and programers behind the engine, to my opinion the technology is fine for it, counter strike anyways, I've never played GT

rich novak
02-15-2003, 06:43 AM
http://www.conitec.net/a4info.htm

shashi
02-15-2003, 08:07 AM
hey guys
well i would suggest 3d game studio
its a good start plus the fact that u r a lw user (theres a great video out for lw users explaining the whole game creation process-- a big plus point)
or
another good idea would be 2 make mods for ut or quake and c/learn the whole process

kukukiki74
02-17-2003, 11:41 AM
Hi,

The TGE can be used to build GTA3 style game with multiplyer support? And please, stay away from things like A5 and those gamemaker whatever they are.

The main problem with those packages that require **no programming** required is that as the package says... no programming means no flexibility.

I may sound like Torque evangelist, but I am not. I like the engine for flexiblity. You get the engine source code. You can do anything you want with it of course with hard work.

LW exporter is also avaible for Torque.

If you guys have any questions, post more questions....

Peter.R
02-17-2003, 06:45 PM
Blender game engine isn't a bad start. I mean, if you're absolutely new to creating games and want to make a fps shooter in class with Q3 or a tps like Enter the matrix, I think you're going to hit a wall. The best way is to start from the beginnig. Doing some simple games, just to learn how a game works. Then Blender is a great start, you have an easy interface that requires no programing skills. You have everything in the same program, modelling, animation and gameengine. You also has the option to use python scripts to enhance your game.You dont even have to compile the game, just press a button and the game runs directly in blender. You can also make an exe file of your game. And it's free.
Download v2.25 (not v.2.26) at www.blender3d.org and check out the tutorials there.
There also a great forum on www.elysiun.com where you'll get answer to your blender questions.

Yes, you may never be able to create a Q3 clone on Blender, but you can get pretty far. I've made a fps demo(with a touch of Resident Evil ;) ) for a contest at
www.blendergames.com/contest/contest_games.php that you can check out(HellStation). Download, unzip everything to the same folder, run the batfile, then run Hellstation.exe.
It's made with Blender and took 3,5 months to develop.

d4rk
02-17-2003, 07:53 PM
I agree that you should start small. I started a mod for halelife a while back that fizled because we took on too much too fast and people started to drop out because it seemed too hard. Finaly when I decided to go small and slow I was the only one left.

kukukiki74
02-17-2003, 09:11 PM
Hi all,

Nice comments and I say they are good ones indeed. The problem that I see is that if you want to make games or get involved in one.... You have to program.... There is no way to get around it. Start small is excellent advise. I agree. But start small in a package that requires no or little programming is not going to help because, these days, even the artist must learn to program a little or have basic knowledge of some sort of programming to achieve what they want to do.

I know from experience that getting to know the 3d engine inside and out takes long time. The learning curve from beginner to novice on the particular 3d engine can take hard work and time.

My advise is to stay away from so called "no programming' required package or 3d engine. Get into the game engines that I mentioned before. Torque is a good start. It has its pitfalls and good stuff. I recommend that you pick a engine and get to know it. Create something small with that. Play with the script, there are lots of tutorials. Play with the engine. Go modify it.

In my opinion, it is critical to pick a right starting point. You can learn alot from professional game engine programmers. There are so many things to learn....

d4rk
02-17-2003, 09:31 PM
my idea for starting small though I never really got to implement it with my project (now failed) was to start off learing to build levels, because this will be a big part of you game. Pic a game like I had Halflife and then Q3. Once you get the feel for that start to learn to code to make small modifications and then just move up from there. Once I get back into the swing of things with lightwave 7.5 (still learning) I am planning on doing some kind of mod project... somday.

Ionized
02-17-2003, 09:51 PM
The problem that I see is that if you want to make games or get involved in one.... You have to program....


Interesting that you say this. I find game artists that can code to be quite rare. I personally leave that stuff to the professionals.

I see what you are saying, but I think it can be a mistake to diversify too much. A little bit of coding isn't really going to get you anywhere when your talking about something as complex as games. That is ofcourse unless you are making the game solo.


Then you get those freaks that are just good at everything.... coding, art, mountaineering :)

Peter.R
02-17-2003, 09:51 PM
Yes, I agree with you kukukiki74. If you want to get good results you'll need to write code.
But if you're new to gamecreation and never done any coding before, then jumping straight on a proffesional gameengine can be very hard. Specially if your'e an artist. You want to see things move, now. I know I did, when I started.
You should'nt discard "no programming" engnes as crap. Beacuse they are'nt. Well, Blender anyway (never tryed the other ones).
It's a great way to learn the basics of a game. Inputs, animations, charactercontrol, GUI, collisions, events etc. When you're confident with that you can exange those "no programming parts" with python-scripts (almost like C) and by that way learnig some programming. During this you'll get feedback right away if your game works or not. So as a learning tool it's not that bad.

LittleFenris
02-17-2003, 09:56 PM
I know this might seem weird to you folks, but what if i wanted to make an old school Contra or Sonic the Hedgehog style game?? Anything out there to do something like this?! I love 2D side scrolling games like those and would love to take a stab at doing a simple 2D scroller myself. I could use 3D to make the frames of the characters animation and backgrounds and stuff...but keep it a 2D side-scroller. Any advice on how to do that would be AWESOME!!

BTW, I'm not a programmer by ANY means...I am mostly a traditional artist but I know computer based graphics and animation OK.

I use Lightwave 3D 7.5 for 3D, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc...for graphics and Final Cut Pro/AVID/Premiere for video editing. I work at a video production studio doing video editing and some animation for commercials..but nothing too fancy like I'm sure some of you do. My point in telling you this is that I know a lot of the different aspects of graphics and animation but have no clue about programming. I am not totally opposed to learning SOME programming but it is not my thing, so too much and I'm in trouble.

Peter.R
02-17-2003, 10:08 PM
Well, VWTornado. Try this game:
http://mysite.iptic.com/cluh/mario.zip

It's Mario clone made in Blender (Is'nt he ever gonna stop about this program.... :blush: )

Which you could do with no, or very little programming.

d4rk
02-17-2003, 11:20 PM
Well try to have fun which ever way you go. Ultimately if you have a good time chances are you will get somewhere.

kukukiki74
02-18-2003, 01:39 AM
You are right. Let the good times roll!!!:bounce:

Tinny_McFinny
02-18-2003, 11:22 AM
BlitzBasic is really easy for non-programmers who want to make old school 2d games. 3d Gamestudio is good for beginners because it's uses C programming langauge and comes with a few different templates for different game styles.

Personally, I think modding is the way to go for begginers, I started with Halflife because there is heaps of code on the net you can just copy and paste and people are always happy to help you if your having trouble with a piece of code.

If you want to go for a free 3d engine, Reality Factory, Genesis 3d and Fly3d are all really good but you have to buy a commercial license if you want to release the game.

Fly3d is especially good as it uses 3dsmax as a level and model editor, which is really good if you have max but useless if you don't.

I don't actually know C++ so I'm still working on my Halflife mod (I think that's about 2 years now) :sad:

letitbeknown
02-18-2003, 08:47 PM
it takes too much for just one guy to do. best bet is to start a chess club.

kukukiki74
02-18-2003, 08:54 PM
uh... chess club? to make chess game?

hanzo
02-19-2003, 12:43 AM
ya, what that have to do with it?....

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