Enviroment Support Group

[koshime]

Suggested Themes:

Variosu themes and subjects wil be posted here

Difficulty: hard
Movie/Game/Cover art style themes geared towards professional briefs. May encompass multiple light sources, 2-3 point perspective, multiple colour techniques and matte techniques





Entry into a Lost city within a vast cavern: Limited lighting, atmospheric perspective
Religous festival within a cathedral: Low-moderate lighting, atmospheric perspective
Explorer in a Deserted Marketplace
Seaport night landscape assault
Difficulty: Moderate

Focused themes with simple compositional, colour, perspective and lighting



Siege on a mountain pass
Dock on a secluded island retreat
Landing on a space colony
Giant statues in cliff face
Approaching an Underwater colony
Rearm and refuel vehicle

Completed



Grand temple exterior theme (completed Dec 1-21)
Vehicle in hangar bay (completed Jan 2007): Interior lighting, Balanced lighting + shadows
Difficulty: Easy

Open ended theme allowing a wide scope of technical range and abilities


Iconic grand tower
Ancient Ruins
Hidden waterfall
Chemical plant
Desert warzone
Hostile takeover
Swamp headquarters
Supernatural discovery
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Archive of previous themes


ESG 001 (Dec 1-15) Grand Temple Exterior (http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/CGTalk-ESG001-Grand_temple_exterior%20.pdf)
ESG 002 (Jan 2007) SciFi vehicle in a hangar (http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/ESG02.pdf)

[sestanis]

Hey Chee, great to get things rolling. Aside from contributing other ideas on subject matter, let's choose an assignment to start off with. We can try to structure this similarly to the class... start with value compositions working on composition, perspective, value, lighting and then work on up to color. Just a suggestion that's all :)

I'm more of a metal/sci-fi kinda guy, so I lean towards "Ship in the hangar bay"

[koshime]

Hi Shane,

Yeah. Each theme would probably be grounded in all the basics Monsieur Le Straub has gifted to us. Hopefully. Most of us would be able to do an amalgamation of

1/ Initial 1-5 Thumbnails

2/ Value/Compo studies

3/ Colour studies

4/ Producing a final piece


I think alot of us have problems with our colour compositions, and hopefully after another 2-3 sessions this will improve

[sestanis]

Sounds like an excellent plan. Hopefully we'll get more classmates in here soon so we could begin to share crits and ideas. Time to start cracking!

[Sycada]

Hi guys. This is Oliver in case u were wondering ;)

This all sounds great. I had a rough idea for an image of a kind of grand temple exterior theme. Tho I'm quite happy to go with one of these.
I like the steps you've got there too Chee.

[Terrielee]

Found Ya! :)

Thanks Chee for setting this up! I'll be mostly watching... and enjoying! :thumbsup:
Terrie:)

[Runecaster]

Hey there guys :)

I'm curious, if we didn't take the class, can we still join in?? I'd love to take a stab at something like this. But if you think I'll be too slow or not up to snuff, just let me know, I'll be happy to take a backseat and watch, too :)

[sestanis]

Ollie and Terry, good to see you guys out here! :)

Runecaster - you're more than welcome to join :) You might be a little out of the loop in terms of what steps we used in the class, but I'm sure you'll catch on fast. Koshime (Chee) basically nailed it down to the basics:

1/ Initial 1-5 Thumbnails (black and white quick thumbnails to get the basic concept out)

2/ Value/Compo studies (adding value and composition to the subject matter, start refining the lighting, add more detail, all still in b&w)

3/ Colour studies (selecting a color palatte, applying as such)

4/ Producing a final piece (self-explanatory)

[Arlekin]

cool

ill be boarding too if i may. I have done similar classes in my school and would like to continue and keep myself in the loop and practice. It is awsome you guys do something like this. Thread wich has a leaning torwards industrial design and etc. :thumbsup:

[koshime]

Welcome aboard Arlekin.

I'm sure you'll be up to speed in no time at all. I tend to document the steps..pretty much step by step (with my limited technical skill and via standing on the shoulder of giants of artists within the digital world/past/present, hope whosoever is following ..can benefit in some small way)

To start off,
I think we should go for something light and not too hard to finish.

So, in that regards we can opt to do the Vehicle in the Hangar on the subsequent theme 02 (as technically, there are some difficult issues concerning 1/ vehicle design 2/ interior lighting 3/ balanced lighting)

If all are in accord,
we can start the bimonthly theme with:

BiMonthly Theme 01: Grand Temple exterior
Dec 1 - Dec 15 2006

During Dec 16-17 we can all self appraise/help each other finalise our paintings prior to starting the next theme

[Rebeccak]

Too cool of an idea! I suck at enviros, so I may have to give this a whirl when you guys really start up. Thanks for this koshime, it's the perfect kick in the pants. :) I've stuck the thread so that it's easier to find.

[martin.nihlen]

oh guys this is EXCELENT! im busy for one night and when i come back all is taken care of! brilliant! sorry i wasnt so active last night when you guys where fixing all this. ill be more active from now on.

i think its a great theme to start of with. im having ideas already. too bad im at work so i have to wait until tonight to get crackin...

anyways its great that we could do this! for the last week i have been trying to think of ways to keep the motivation and momentum going from the course and this is perfect! and i think that because most of us know eachother from the course we are not afraid to give honest crits and that is SO important if we really want to progress.

nuff said, lets get crackin! the 15th is just 2 weeks away!

[martin.nihlen]

[message removed... having some posting trouble]

[lagatta]

hey nice to see you all again in this forum. :thumbsup:
I´ll do my best to participate.

Jenn :)

[jobu]

WoW!!! Guys. This is awsome. I'll try to keep step with you. It really sounds promising and it allready was great fun with you all at Phils.
So, I'm looking foward having some extra good time here with you.

[koshime]

http://www.medievalfx.com/images/TsukijiTemple.jpg


Initial preambulatory thoughts about how to BUILD a grand temple (armchair achaeo-paleantologist)

Temple Building Philosophy

An effective temple is the epitome, the capstone of urban architecture that effectively communicates an Art process and the spiritual in a volumetric form. In that regard, a sucessful architect is able to unify both symbolism, architecture and volume in simple masses of sacred geometry (cylindrical, circular, tower, pyramidal, mountain, cross) in both vertical and horizontal masses

In such an undertaking, one should consider:

A/ Function of a Grand Temple



Symbolism of nations power - Sumerian
Place of worship
Abode of Gods - egyptian
Mountain Abode of Gods - Aztecs/Mayan
Symbol of enlightenment - Stupas of india/china
Understanding or worship of Afterlife
Gateway to Gods - Afikan
Tomb of Gods - Egyptian
Place of meditation/seclusion - Shintoism/Naturalism
B/ Materials Available


http://www.medievalfx.com/images/Mudbrick.jpg




Mudbrick - Sumerian (ziggurat/receding plaform tiers to represent a temple on a tall mountain)
Sandstone - Egyptian (allows ornamentation/facades and subtle details)
Stone - highly Durable +++, heavy, difficult to work with (in 1000 years, when semiconductors, metals, wood, brick stone fade away, only stone and gold remain. Thus, an advanced civilization is more easily forgotten with time)
Gold (white/yellow) - Precious, infinite durability, malleable (great to work with, moderate difficulty to purify, great semi conductor, possess M-state, memory, allow for digital storage
Concrete - Easy to work with fortified, ugly, require trabecular meshwork, prone to rot, moderate durability
Steel/Alloy - High technological processes required, difficult to work with, highly durable
Wood/ratan - Natural resource, easy to work with, prone to rot adn decay, allow for geometric/curve shapes, poor durability
Space-Age materials - Ceramics/Light polymers: allows for tensile structure and 1/2 to 1/3 weight bearing load
C/ Sacred geometry & symbolism


http://www.medievalfx.com/images/Aegiantemple.jpg




Dome/Spherical configurations - anti earthquake/tsunami, hurricane, wind, energy efficient
Pyramidal - mystical volume, shares similar properties to the above. Difficult to errect
Cube - mystical volume revered by Jewish/Moslem/Christian architects
Open Columns and wall - uniquely Grecian. simplicity and oneness with landscape.
D/ Ornamentation/Facades


Afford for decorations, information storage/retrieval
Aesthetic qualities
Conclusion: In the design of such a sacred building, one at least needs to consider these paramenters better prior to designing/concepting a piece for either aesthetic/functional purposes

Enjoy!

[lagatta]

Hey Chee this is really cool stuff from you again. Thanks a lot :thumbsup:

[sestanis]

Temple sounds good for a first assignment, good way to ease into the workflow of this thread. Off to do a bit of research!

[sestanis]

Too cool of an idea! I suck at enviros, so I may have to give this a whirl when you guys really start up. Thanks for this koshime, it's the perfect kick in the pants. :) I've stuck the thread so that it's easier to find.

Thanks for the sticky Rebecca! We'll try not to disappoint :)

[Sycada]

Thanks Chee this info is just what I needed. I haven't paid enough attention to the subject history in my previous Straubb class pics.

[koshime]

With reference to post #17, where I rambled on about how you could choose to build a temple in real life - it was hopefully, some interesting background reading material to help in the design stage of one's compositions.

Saying that , you dont necesarilly have to research or consider the ramifications of making an impossible tall temple out of ether and wax. One could instead, fabricate a grand imposing temple to rival the tower of babel and make the image look good - as long as you're having a good time (and the image looks proportionally feasible/semi believable) the objective of this theme would have been achieved.

Time willing, I'll add some small illustrations despicting various styles using various materials in an orthographic view

[Vahn]

cool idea :thumbsup:

ill try to join :D

[Giuseppe-Troiano]

Awesome idea guys, finally I found this thread and it´s really great that we continue after Phil´s great class:thumbsup: Just need some time for my study now but I´ll try to participate as often as I can....

[Runecaster]

Hey guys, I only had 40 minutes, and these are REALLY BAD omg I realize, but you have to start somewhere right? I didn't get to #5 because I have to go pick up my kids from school.

Here is what I have for thumbs so far -- we're supposed to post them here right? If not please let me know.

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirothumb1.jpg

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirothumb2.jpg

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirothumb3.jpg

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirothumb4.jpg

I'm sorry they are so bad!! I am just really beginning with stuff like this. When I get home and stuff I'll try and edit the post with #5.

[koshime]

I think the thumbnails are actually very workable and good

1/ One point perspective - works

2/ Composition - Each thumbnail explores different aspects of your temple. I'd say the first and last composition have potential for working up. the other compositions are framed too close in the shot. If you pan out, it woudl be in better perspective

3/ Hierachy - probably adding 1-2 more objects into the thumbnails will help strengthen the compositions, and keep / re affirm interest to the viewer!

[Arlekin]

Hi Runecaster...

I agree the 1st and the 4th are the best i personally would go for the 4th because it has this grand view and feel to it (i bet it is because it gives u a hint of scale when compared to landscape etc)

:thumbsup:

[Runecaster]

Hey guys, thanks! I also like #4 the best when I was doing it -- I wonder why? hehe. Ok, so I guess I should go read up a little bit on what a pre-viz exactly is? Or do I fiddle around mroe with thumbs? I'm so sorry I'm such a drag to everyone, not having a clue o.O

[koshime]

Pre-viz is the movie buzz word to quickly visualise a scene.
In a concept artist case. this means mini thumbnail composition/colour study.


Choose a thumbnail to expand/work upon. correct the perspective. etc.etc

[Runecaster]

by mini does that mean as small as the ones above? Or 50% size of final?

Also, that perspective is as good as it gets for me, I have NO idea what I'm doing there, that was a total fly by night guess with what little I knew.

I think I can do what you're talking about at least give it a shot.

Thanks =D

[koshime]

I took the quick liberty of doing a quick paintover - around 10 mins.
added some more interest on the left, duplicated and defined the ziggurat like shape,
and added a red-yellow colour pass, as a narrow monochromic approach

Thumbnails can be any size. prob around 700-800 pixels (25-50% magnification)
Full colour/rendersize should be around 300dpi (3000 pixels) at 12.5-25% magnification when painting (this allows you to paint in details that you would appear on print, at the same level of magnification)

[Runecaster]

omg you just totally wtfpwned me with that paintover!! LOL


However, it REALLY shows me what needed to be done. :D

Can I ask you something?

How did you fix the perspective? it changed a lot -- can you do a redline? It looks like the viewer is a lot closer now and lower.

I like the additions of the bridges over the river, damn, wish I had thought of that! :P

Now i feel like if I take that and run with it, it's not really mine, since you made it so much better lol but I guess I'm just practicing it doesnt really matter :D

[koshime]

Actually,

I could have fixed the horizon or perspective, using just Ctrl-T. BUT, to stick within the rules of your composition, i maintained your original 1 point perspective, but corrected/painted the right elements that adhered to the one point perspective used.

I designed the temple to conform to a ziggurat (illsutrated below) formation
And added simpel cubic forms pleasant to the eye (using the simple rule that anything light hits, goes on top, and thus the corresponding shadows go to one side, and bounced light on the other.

I think you can take what you want from the picture and run with it or work from you rexisting image and take elements of the paint over...through.

I dont really mind. It would be interesting to see what the other members of the class think/can contribute.

Enjoy!

[Runecaster]

Wow, this was invaluable help, thank you so much!! After I get my kids from school I will toodle around this afternoon and see what I can muster.

[razz]

Yay, this is so great. I must give it a try. Only I'm so busy right now, how to find the time!! I haven't read everything, just watched through real fast. For how long this will be going? I want to participate...

[sestanis]

Good workover, Chee. I think he does a good job of starting to establish a peice by going through the process of creating quick thumbnails and proceeding from those to create a more finished product. I think if you added some more lighting to the buildings, the composition wouldn't be so dark, and it would add a bit more contrast to the scene and punch up the focus

Chee also fixed a couple of things that I think improved the composition of the peice, like adjusting the perspective so it wasn't as extreme, adding a bit more volume to the peice so that it gives it more of a sense of being a monolithic type object by adding scale reference with the indicated buildings.

I actually liked the 3rd composition that Runecaster came up with also.. you can create some really dramatic shadows to add more to the composition with the building on the right

[Runecaster]

Thanks Sestan! I hadn't even bothered to do a real b&w mockup yet at all, those thumbs were just the roughest of sketches!

The B&W is my next plan =D Gonna work on it this afternoon :D

[koshime]

probably too ambitous at this stage, but in later stages. I wanted to also help improve one's workflow.

This means, to help yourself make tools to improve or make one's life easier in painting.
eg - custom brushes/ shortcuts/ painter vs photoshop quirks

In the main, was aiming to make one custom brush per theme, something that will make the whole composition dynamic/easier.

In this theme, perhaps a special pillar brush was envisioned (but too busy at the moment)
but perhaps someone can take the torch and start the fire!

[Runecaster]

Well here is what I did this afternoon. I'm in a really terrible negative mood, so I'm sure that affected whatever I did. I think the perspective is wrong. I'm confused lol

What I did like was the depth, at least I got something partially right.


http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirosketches.jpg

[T-Scholes]

Koshime! This is great man, many thanks.

Sure hope I'm doing this right; thumbnails - nothing too stand out, having some fun with wonky perspective. I dunno, I'm liking 4 and 5. Might do more after I actually do some research...

*Cough* some big thumbnails I suppose, should I resize?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/Ragnarok27/CGTalk/thumbone.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/Ragnarok27/CGTalk/thumb2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/Ragnarok27/CGTalk/thumb3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/Ragnarok27/CGTalk/thumb4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/Ragnarok27/CGTalk/thumb5.jpg

[koshime]

Hi there,

some great thumbnails there.

I think you can

1/ merge thumbnails 5 into 4,
2/ thumbnail 1 has great lighting potential (shadowed foreground, light on temple object), but needs to pan out more, perhaps even framed by an overlying arch or foreground object on the left and right a bit (eg. massive cliff faces)

Included a 20 m paintover of what I envisioned your potential to be

3/ thumbnail 2 - convert the flat ground into rising steps that rise and plateau into the distance (which should pay off with a grand temple building)

4/thumbnail 3 - is too symetrical for the viewer. For this angle/height, normally you would skew the view for a more diagonal/2-3 point perspective.

[Runecaster]

T I love those thumbs, they are all so dynamic and interesting! I like #5 the best, but that is just my opinion as a viewer, I don't know enough to give a really in depth idea as to /why/ I like it :D

[wasker]

Cool thread Koshime, I hope I can contribute.

Runecaster: The perspective is off. Make a new layer on top of your sketch and keep perspective lines in it, then toggle visiblity on/off when you need to check.

T-scholes: Like them skecthes.

[Darklord101]

First off: Thank you Koshime,
Great job everyone. I see dynamic pieces in the making

This highly interests me I'll make some time to contribute, really want to learn. I come from a texturing background so generally everything I do is flat, hopefully this shall solve my problem :D.

*Goes off and researches*

[wasker]

I did some tumbnails aswell, 3-5 minutes each, I feel I usually end up with dull perspectives and unintresting enviros when doing them.

http://www.wasker.com/cg_1.png
http://www.wasker.com/cg_2.png
http://www.wasker.com/cg_3.png
http://www.wasker.com/cg_4.png

[Darklord101]

Still trying to find some forms though I'm heavily influenced by the Slimiye Mosque, and the Faisal Mosque and im trying to add a hint of greek culture aswell (for the base)
Quick Studies

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/6571/studieszk8.jpg

*Edit*: Forgot to post mini thumbs.
Thumbnails

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2982/thumbsef0.jpg


Test/Mood/Perspective Composition
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/6031/envi1stud2cc0.jpg

[koshime]

Thats a good thumbnail there, i think a background layer (eg. mountains or city) will help cement it as the main focus of the image (currently, the horizon line..can only be guessed...)

The lighting from the value study works well.

The composition could do with perhaps a foreground object to tie the eye into the main piece.

Looking forward to further WIPs!!

[Darklord101]

Update:

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1447/environment2cv6.jpg

Colour/Mood Study:
- A little Mood enhacement, Was listening to the Dead Can Dance - Yulunga, while deciding the mood for this piece

http://www.radioblogclub.com/open/109431/dead_can_dance/Dead%20Can%20Dance%20-%20Yulunga

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1695/colourtesthx1.jpg

I imagined a person standing out of balcony on a small hill overlooking the grand temple his city had to offer, so it would have a sort of "dipping" view, So you see his neighbours then it would drop down and look over the city.

- General Story of this city I had in mind was, That it had seen its better days and now slowly its decaying, dieing in the dunes, squatter areas are growing and some have made homage down in the small river below (man made). The sun bakes and shines the temple as if it would to like to see it gain its prestige back once more to glorify this ever lost, dieing city, It's still grand as the citizens still look to it rembering how the city once was.

[Arlekin]

hello

uh im also still tryng to find forms for this piece, anyways here is what i have now

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j78/Arlekin_photos/gothiccopy.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j78/Arlekin_photos/gtemole3.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j78/Arlekin_photos/gtemple1.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j78/Arlekin_photos/temp4.jpg

..so i have some ide glipses but none of them feels entirely right to me.... i thought posting may help me to get on track .... would like to play around with perspective little bit more but i cant find the right angle....anyways...

I would like to go for something industrial/postindustrial archidecture mixed with gothic or art-deco or maybe jugend- praise progress and technology and the people who are responsible for all the achivements.... :D

...i'll get crackin again... maybe ill find this magical right thing somehow...

[Runecaster]

Wow guys these look amazing. DarkLord - what brushes are you using? They have such a gritty feel. I just can't get that quality -- awesome :) Love the Taj Mahal hehe =D

Arlekin, I love the first one -- reminds me of LOTR art, Minas Tirith or somesuch -- very nice :) Also dig the creature growing out of the city.

[Arlekin]

thnx runecaster...

Yes i know i have a weakness for gothic..etc archidecture i would like to fuse it with something post-industrial....

...and darklord do u use external textures?

...new perspective... i think its the same enviroment as my fisrt thumb has in my previous post.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j78/Arlekin_photos/gothic4.jpg

[Runecaster]

^^^ I like this one too.


I should get to work on mine o.O

[Darklord101]

Runecaster: For the gritty type of look I just went through the stock folder I had, chose a metal texture and used soft light, faded bits and erased unwated areas afterwards I merged everything and Sharped Edges to give a crisp look, I blurred the foreground a tad bit so the view could focus more on the main piece which the temple. Mostly for brushes I use the standrad type with pen pressure (laying the foundation). For more detailed aspects of the piece I use brushes, so click, click roof tops appear, windows etc.


Arlekin: External textures, I used two so far(one for the whole image to hide a few strokes and give it a dusty atmosphere, the other faint lines on the domes), been trying to keep it at a low (since I come from a texturing background, and recently about two years ago I decided to take one the concepting root)

[Runecaster]

Did this fix it?

NO idea:

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirosketches1.jpg


it seems REALLY dramatic -- I really havent a single idea what I'm doing lol

need to fix teh second rear temple 'steps' I realized that just a sec ago


and Dark Lord, thanks for the tips :D

[Darklord101]

Runecaster: Other then what you pointed out a major awesome update! Great job!
*Edit*
Was bored so I started playing around with your piece, with your permission may I post it.

[Runecaster]

thanks Dark Lord for the words of encouragement :D

Here is another update - I find this very meditating! I wish I was more creative, but I suppose that will come in time, as my language of drawing vocabulary grows over the years :D

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirosketches2.jpg

I really am not sure what I am supposed to be doing at this point -- but I messed around with some general color (I'm tentative with it, as you can see) and atmosphere.


EDIT: haha, I saw your edit when I posted this -- sure thing of course!! :)

[Darklord101]

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4639/templerunecastersd4.jpg
First off you have a great foundation colour, you just need to build it up and refine it a bit more. I think the 5th block on the second temple looks a bit to big and long.

And for thie piece here I thought it would be interesting to have a second lighting coming behind the viewer so they would wonder what is going back there, as if there was a fire or some wierd worship ceremony.

[Runecaster]

oooh yeah I didnt notice that, the long base 'step' as it were.. thanks!

That red frontal (or backlighting, whatever) is so cool looking!

It will be fun to mess around with this some more.

What step am I on? lol do I start finishing yet?? =D

[koshime]

hi guys,

Its really great to see you all take to the enviro theme.
Unfortunately, i have professional medical board exams in 3 days...so can only pop in and critique. But I'll get a chance to pitch in on the 5th...heh.heh

runecaster > at the B7W stage, the values and composition are refined, with details not too worked in yet. Once you are absolutely happy with the composition, then its time to think of brining in colour. Now as an artist you dont have to use full technicolour but choose shades of a one colour or two.... (depends on how you want the viewer to participate/view it)

Some sky/cloud reference can be used to paint in and work up your background...

(i.e trawl the net or pwn photos, see what clouds or background coudl be used in this composition and start to paint it in...that will help bring your composition mroe to life!)

gluck!

[wasker]

I like the progress runecaster and your colorjob is coming along nicely Darklord :)

I've combined a few of mine and redone it to something like this, I feel I lack skills in perspective as my perspectives are always two lines to the horizon from eyelevel (this one is slightely above eye level though) and I got huge problems painting buildings correct.

Any comments on how to improve this picture or these skills is appreciated. :thumbsup:

http://www.wasker.com/temple.png

here's a link to the ref incase you're intrested

reference photo (http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-16901469.jpg?size=67&uid={7aa58ca5-1a18-41e5-93ed-50a370a1d62f})

[koshime]

For this interior shot, perhaps the object of interest is the main room in the distance.

To work more effectively, you can lower the angle of the shot to be more ground level. And perhaps twist the horizon line slightly 2 degrees clockwise/anti clockwise

[Arlekin]

im with wasker on this... i can construct human body from my head no ref .... but i would like to practice some insane perspectives as well. I know the perspective theory but forexample its hard to construct closeup 3 point pp from a tover church or similar. I thin more practicing and drawing perspectives from under the stairs in high hallways and such would help. Anyways it would be nice to start some kind of perspective training thread... this thought has been in my mind for few days now...:D

[razz]

Great job guys. Nice to watch this thread, all the process from little thumbnails. That's the way ot should be unless one doesn't know what he wants and everything fits. Keep going guys, pleasure watching this.

[koshime]

Feel free to practise perspective/composition/lighting (but try to keep to the themes set out) within these threads (for constructive and unified improvements towards the whole group).

Troubleshooting with perspective

Perspective can be as straightforward/complicated as you want it to be.
Ultimately, it depends on the desired effect of each piece. (not every piece should have a crazy 3-6 point perspective, some of the best use only one..but effectively)

You could surmise that (for just perspective alone)

Types of perspective

1/ A wide shot - 1 point pespective, showing a road leading into the desert

2/ Most enviromental and landscape shots - 2 point perspective

3/ Interior, schematic of a building or trying to show VOLUME - 3 point perspective

4/ Aerial shot (top down or down up) - 3 point perspective or more

In this regard,
we should look at some references and compare the perspectives within them

What I would like to stipulate is simply this: Perspective without composition is not as effective... (i.e the picture will look flat/emotionless - approaching the sterility of a skilled technical drawing)

Examples

One Point
http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/1pp.jpgDescription: Although relatively a simple 1PP, it is the COMPOSITION, that helps to gel this illustration effectively. It has essentially a H type composition, utilising only 3 main objects of interest. The people on the gondolas help to draw the eye to balance the play between the bridge and the people, as your interest shifts between the two, balanced by the frame of two building shapes receding into the distance
http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/1pp-2.jpg Desctiption: Another 1PP, utilizing two types of composition. A part L shape and a part circular composition. The main object is the curved bridge structure, placed 1/3rd (left) of the picture whilst a distant foreground twin image, helps to fortify the view (notice how the eye shifts between the two objects).

The pallete is limited but because the composition works well with a simple perspective, the piece works very well (and could be worked upon later to a more finished look)

The receding boats/structures all lead the eye to the main object. It is the power of composition framed within effective perspective that makes any picture sing easily

http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/1pp-3.jpg

Description: This Dylan Cole game Matte piece utilised 1PP. Whats different about it is that an extreme angle might not have worked so well to make it look natural/realistic. here, all the elements of foreground/midgorund/background are so subtly blended.

As an attempt at analysis: The foreground obejcts frame the picture subtly (mound placed in the lower 1/3rd - rule of thirds). One's eye is drawn to the relic on the top right (right 1/3rd) then travels down the 1PP towards the mystical city (framed by the receding featureless mountains, and avoiding the gap in the middle through which the waters fall subtly)

Pallete: This matte is in the key of Green. Using natural late afternoon sunlight, the city/main interest is subtly lit with its warm colours with a hint of it coming from the Right hand side (no where else is the picture lit with the warm inviting colours)

All of these help to emphasie and draw the viewer in for an effective masterclass piece

http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/1pp-4.jpg
Description: This E tiemens piece is effective in that it uses some cunning in:



1 point perspective (but hidden outside the view of the viewer)
Employs the rule of 1/3rd as the main focus of the composition (notice the areas with the yellow dots have subjects/areas of interest to form a L shaped composition as well)

In the next post, I'll talk a little about extreme angles, 2-3 point perspectives relative to references from other industry artist's works. Hopefully, that will illustrate how these other artist make their pieces work/sing with simple effective methods that you can employ straightaway.

Enjoy!

[Arlekin]

the golden mean:D

[wasker]

Sorry, I read the brief again and saw the exterior theme. Thanks for spending time on helping out with my picture though, Koshime, I appreciate it. I'll double check the briefs from now on. Really nice explanations btw.

[Runecaster]

Koshime you are worth your weight in gold for this explanation, I think you have an excellent knack at teaching. It's really hard to teach and explain and you do it so very well. Thank you so much :) I learned so much from what you showed --- using works already done helps /so/ much in the "seeing" part - I can't explain why, but for me at least, that's the best way I learn stuff like this.

Arnocob has a really good one in his thread too. You can find it here: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=435036



EDIT 1 hour later:

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirosketches3.jpg

Alright I fiddled around some more. I cloned stamp from 2 different images from the sky, blended them, painted over them -- I have never done that before so I hope that was OK hehe I was just going for the kind of sky I wanted. I wish I had better brushes, or knew how to do those cool texture techniques you guys know how to do... mine looks so, blah.

Anyway, don't really know what to do next hehe any help?

[wasker]

Looking good runecaster, perhaps you should reconsider getting one of those pyramids in the distance, on the left side of the river to act as a counterweight and balance the picture.


I did a exterior sketch with a buddah inspired temple on top of flipped coneshaped mountain I couldn't find any refs for it so I did it as I imagined it would look like. I know some parts of China got areas with these mountain pillars and so I made the enviro abit influenced by china, with their agricultural techniques.

I think I'm starting to get the hang of perspectives, thanks Koshime :) Can I do as I've done here placing the left vanish point higher than the right?
Edit: Now i'm feeling dumb, ofcourse I can't :p It should lie on the horizon. Trial and error. :bounce:

http://www.wasker.com/t1.png
http://www.wasker.com/t2.png

[koshime]

Runecaster > I have a small collection of brushes in my ConceptArt sketchbook (http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1076700&postcount=965)

Wasker > Your vanishing points shoudl ideeally be on the horizon line. Actually. It shoudl in all cases be on the horizon line. So, if you simply alter your horizon line and plot everything relative to that it should always work in theory.

As it is now, slight alterations need to be made to correct it but good work so far.
For this image. You are using a 3-4 point perspective already! (and trying to contour your buildings to follow a fish eye perspective...so you might need to replot....

[Runecaster]

thanks for the brushes =D LOVELY thread - I loved seeing the evolution of that piece and hey, congrats on getting married =D

[koshime]

Runecaster > you're welcome. There are more examples throughout the sketchbook thread. Hopefully some of it might be helpful. Thank you for yoru well wishes on the marriage as well. Hope the brushes lend to a more fun filled evening

[Darklord101]

I have never done that before so I hope that was OK..

Don't be scared of the tools you have, your concepting to communicate not to sell (In this case you are communicating how you would interpret the theme in your vision) (In other words It's a concept not an illustration, but it all boils down to what workflow you find comfortable with)

I use photo's,textures custom brushes, levels, variations etc. It's the 21st cent. not the 16th. So I learnt how to use the tools provided by Adobe Photoshop.

So go ahead find a shape in a photo you really love and convert it into a brush. :p

[koshime]

Runecaster > well, you have two choices with your current concept



Colour method: Develop the values and composition more using your colour pallete (this can be good as it is narrow, ONLY use the colours you have in the current composition)


Return to greyscale, and work on your values and details till you're happier with the whole concept (aiming for a black and white photograph) which can subsequently be changed into ANY colour scheme/key you desire later, very easily (well requires some inner workings of overlay, curve/ colour balance in photoshop)


Some people work better in colour , so they lay down colours right from the begining. Others may not be so good with colour, and hence a grayscale start to near finish is more suitable (similar to starting with a picture in greyscale using grey marker pens on paper > scan > colour in)

As they say in BlindDate: The choice is ultimately yours :)



P/S: You dont need fancy brushes. I paint 90% of an image with perhaps 3 brushes.

Hard brush - details, corners, highlights
Medium brush - most details, picks up underlying colour/layer - shaped into pallete knife brush
Soft brush - atmosphere, glow, ambience, blender

[Sleepar]

hey great thread, i really want to join...is it still the first week of the event? I'll start right away on thumbnails..

[koshime]

Sleepar > yup. First week of the event. Feel free to throw in some lines and muck about.

[Sleepar]

upalright here are my thumbnails..not quite sure which idea to go with. feedback/crits would be greatly appreciated. thanks

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Sleepar/thumbsheet.jpg

[Sycada]

wow! This thread has really exploded! fantastic :)
I've managed to do a few very quick thumbs. Was hoping to develop the 2nd one a bit today but unfortunately I've gotten sick and can't stand to stare at the monitor for more than 15 mins without needing a nap.
Will go back and look at the last few pages of posts properly when I'm feeling better but looking great :D

[razz]

Yay, everyone's making such nice thumbnails, I hope I can keep up with you guys.

Some really fast crap, not more than 5 minutes each. I find it difficult to think of an idea and I haven't done much environments so I'm really eager to participate.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/8742/thumbnailsiz6.jpg

[koshime]

Tautvydas> Welcome Razz. There is a great set of compositional thumbnails you have there.
I'd really like thumbnails 1,2 and the last.
I beleive they have the greatest potential for further development
Peter C > Hello there. Its great to see you work on enviroments (great characterization paints btw). I think the first thumbnail has the best perspective/composition of the four thumbnails. The last thumbnail holds great potential, however the perspective grid used is a strange blend of 2 point perspective / with a 3rd point slanted on (on the left). It would work well as either a 1PP or 2PP
Ollie >
The middle thumbnail holds greatest promise. The initial thumbnail needs to pan down abit to show more of the landscape. Whereas the last thumbnail has a bridge that is too obstructing towards the castle/temple structure

[lagatta]

ok so here we go, this is my first scetch for the tempel scene. I thought i go for some kind of inside scenery. Don´t have much time for painting at the moment, but I´ll hopefully will have the time to do some more scetches. So what do you guys think about this one ?

[koshime]

Hi jennifer,

good to see your support of ex-straub's continuing class *grin*
For an interior scene, the perspective is set up well, although it is hard to make otu where you are going to proceed with this thumbnail. To develop it further, I would show a grand sense by showing sloping walls (beyond the pillared walkway) on the left, and a vast hall down the right, and perhaps multiple floors (downwards) with a faint hint of either a internal garden, clouds, lake...to show some sense of greath height but not too much colour/interest as your main focus is the Man and the arch

Additionally, we were concentrating on an exterior shot theme (grand temple exterior) followed by an Interior design for the subsequent theme

[lagatta]

uupps sorry Chee, my fault so here is an other scetch this time exterieur . ;)
It shows a tempel on a hill with some labyrith. This woman on the left side is standing on a hill looking at the landscape.
But I´m not really happy with the right side of the scetch. The mountain in the MG does not fit well at the moment. Somebody got any suggestions? I want the labyrith to be in a kind of valley. :hmm:

Thanks :)

[koshime]

Because you have 3 vanishing points, the angle is extreme.
Thats a great tool for such landscapes...but you need to ensure all the objects are in parrallel.

I think, if you flip your image horizontally, you'll find the lady is not in perspective with your 3rd vanishing point

Hopefully that helps.

Subsequently, you can store a mountain on either the left or right hand side, but try to just store a mountain on one side, and the outer city on the other ,with the
mian city centre in the middle. That should balance everything out nicely.

Remember the 1/3rd rules as well.

have fun!

[gl0gg]

Hey guys, I would've loved to join the Straub workshop, but unfortunately I discovered it too late :(

I thought I would give this a try, and have done three very loose thumbs to start out with. I do not know what level of polishing these thumbnails are supposed to have, I really just ded them kind of as mental notes to myself and so that one can see roughly how I would like them to look composition-wise. I know there are some perspective problems and such, but I figure that would be the next step to fix all that stuff on the thumbnail chosen?

I would appreciate any comments very much so that I can develop them or do new ones. Now, let's see if I can get this attachment thingy to work...

[Runecaster]

wow, I really like 2 and 3 a lot. Really strong compositions, in my opinion as a mere viewer :D

[martin.nihlen]

hey guys! sorry i havent been posting. been dealing with some personal stuff so i havent really been in a painting mood...

but its great to see that the thread is alive and kickin. ill try to get into it a little this week. and maybe offer some crits today.

gl0g >> hey, cool to see more people from sweden! too bad you missed the straub course, it was brilliant. if he gives it again you should take it.
as far as your comps go they are in my opinion just the right amount of polished. then after getting some feedback you can polish some more. i like the second one the best definately. maybe you should think about where you want your focalpoint to be and think about how to get the viewer to look there. and also its a liiittle to centred. but it still feels to me like the coolest concept and the one woth the most potential.

keep it up guys! its looking great!

[gl0gg]

Hey guys, thanks for replies. I think #2 is prolly the best one as well, it feels like it has some potential after polishing and stuff. Since I was a little unsure about the brief we got, I went for a boring overhead shot in #1. Pretty informative but boring to death. Martin, You are definitely right about the composition being too centered, I'll try and do a couple of variants on that one.

By the way guys, is there a thread or something you guys have where you display wips or the complete images of your Straub workshop? Would be interesting to see!

[lagatta]

Hi Joel,

I would def. say nr. 2 and 3 are the best ones. Just one thing I would think about when developing these: If you want an object to broach the edge of your painting, make it clear, don´t let the object just kiss the edge. :) It´s the same with objects if they cross each other ( f.e. in persp Fg , Mg , Bg ) They should clearly cross each other.
I hope You understand what I mean, because my english is not the best :D

[gl0gg]

Thanks, you're right of course. I know of the theories, but it's really hard to think of all of them at the same time, thanks a bunch for reminding me, I will definitely think of it when I do variations on my thumbs!

[EmilVisti]

Hi, could Koshime or someone else who else who have a fair understanding of perspective rules please help me to understand how perspective relates to images with a high horizon (it's called frog perspective in danish, but I don't quite know the english word). More specifically when looking up a building, much like T-scholes two last images. I'm making some thumbs, but I got stumped when trying to do one in this perspective. I have no idea how to set up the guidelines..

[gl0gg]

Hey Emil

I am of course not at the same level as the pros here in the thread, here's a really simple explanation of high and low horizons:

If the horizon is high in the picture, it means the point of view is elevated, see attachment 1. This is just a simple one point perspective, but the same goes here as for two-point, just add another vanishing point on the horizon and draw lines radiating from it.

When the horizon is low in the pic it will be from a frog's perspective (attachment 2). Always remember that the horizon is at the same height as the eyes/camera, so if you were standing on the ground and you added people in the pic, their eyes would be on the horizon line if they were the same height as you and standing on the ground.

This is just the basics, if you want to elaborate a little on what you would like to know, it would be easier to know what to explain :)

I hope this made sense. If you want an even higher/lower point of view, then you can put the horizon line outside of the picture and draw the perspective grid from there.

[wasker]

Nice thumbnails people! I'm really excited to see how all the works turn out. :)
Remember the deadline though!

[gl0gg]

Okay, so here's a little update on my #2 thumb. Some crits would be great! I hope at least that the general idea gets through, it's a gate in to a massive complex that is the temple and some pilgrims going in. If I go with this idea I will of course add detail and stuff sticking out of the towers and so, don't want them to look like two giant toilet rolls.

[wasker]

Looks cool gl0gg :) The perspective seems correct to me, concerning composition; I'm abit disturbed that we dont see more to the left of the gate, perhaps you should extend the picture abit.

[gl0gg]

thanks for the crits, wasker! I had the image looking further down the wall before, the problem with that is the _huge_ space to the upper left that makes the whole pic really imbalanced. Maybe someone has a suggestion on what to put in the upper left to make it balanced if the current cropping is a big problem?

[EmilVisti]

Hey Emil

I am of course not at the same level as the pros here in the thread, here's a really simple explanation of high and low horizons:

If the horizon is high in the picture, it means the point of view is elevated, see attachment 1. This is just a simple one point perspective, but the same goes here as for two-point, just add another vanishing point on the horizon and draw lines radiating from it.

When the horizon is low in the pic it will be from a frog's perspective (attachment 2). Always remember that the horizon is at the same height as the eyes/camera, so if you were standing on the ground and you added people in the pic, their eyes would be on the horizon line if they were the same height as you and standing on the ground.

This is just the basics, if you want to elaborate a little on what you would like to know, it would be easier to know what to explain :)

I hope this made sense. If you want an even higher/lower point of view, then you can put the horizon line outside of the picture and draw the perspective grid from there.

Thanks a lot, gl0gg!

I think I should just use a 1 point perspective, but put it outside the actual canvas to make a more extreme horizon height. Basically, what I'm looking for is the effect you get when you stand at the bottom of a really tall building and just look up and see it towering into the sky.

The other two thumbs I referenced have a bit of that, but I would like it a bit more extreme.. I just never thought of actually putting the horizon outside the canvas, but it seems like it would be the proper thing to do, if you can't see the ground in the thumb.

[Runecaster]

glogg I was just about to post that I was loving your thumb -- I don't see the upper left as a problem at all -- but that's just me, what do I know :D

[gl0gg]

Hey again Emil

If you're looking for that tall building look, then you'll probably have to do a three-point perspective if it isn't going to look weird. You will then use two points on the horizon, which can be off-pic as you say, and a third in the sky that the lines on the building will point to.

Here's a quick sketch on how stuff works. The blocks are all boxes with 90 degree angles all around. The green lines go to one vp (vanishing point) on the horizon, and the blue to another, also on the horizon. The pink/purple lines go to a vp in the sky. If you put the two vp: s to close to each other on the horizon line, the angle by the white text will be less than 90 degrees, and that's impossible in real life if the building hasn't got a sharper edge, so your pic will look funny even though all lines radiate from the same vp: s.

I hope you understand me, I am not sure my text makes too much sense.


Runecaster - Thanks! No, I don't think the upper left is a problem right now either, but the problem comes when I change the composition so that I see more of the wall, like Oskar suggested before. If the current composition doesn't look to weird, I'll probably get to work on a value- and a colorsketch. Those are the next step right?

[koshime]

Hi GUys,

Its great to see so many participants.
Over the next three days, we'l start rounding up all the existing value sketches in a comparative manner for dissection/critique for improvement and completion next week.

So if 1-2 choices can be made for the pieces you want to develop further for next week can be made, I'll start gathering your images onto one post/pdf

I'll start workign on my thumbnail/composition as well. Heh heh!

[Runecaster]

All this learning about perspective is making me a happy camper - I've never been taught so well than in this thread - I could hug you all!


I worked some more on mine -- though I feel REALLY unhinged about it, I don't know what to do.


I added another ziggurat/pyramid temple thingy on the left, fixed perspective even more, solidified shadows and tightened stuff up in general.

what should I do next? I haven't the foggiest --- I hate that feeling of treading water not knowing where to swim or with what stroke hehe :)


http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirosketches4.jpg
http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/comcepts/envirosketches4.jpg

[gl0gg]

Hey Runecaster!


In my very humble opinion, the biggest problem to me is that it is so very clear in the picture that it is a one point-perspective, and that there is nothing obstructing our view to the vanishing point. I think that if there was another temple blocking the vanishing point, maybe the eye would be able to wander around a little more, checking out the city. Right now it's like you look at the picture, and it says swoosh and you're only looking at the vanishing point since it's bright and all the lines in the picture points to it.

[Runecaster]

hahha!! Swoosh!


Hey I have an idea!! OMG (I'm surprised that it came right to me)

How about a temple that is horizontal(perpendicular) to the others, with an archway to let the river through the bottom part???


:D I think that might work anyway -- whatcha think? I'll work on it after I vacuum/shower/laundry/wifely chores from hell.

[koshime]

Hi folks,

Here is my entry for the Grand temple theme.
My thumbnail starts with a simple 2 pp.

I am thinking of altering the horizontal line a bit 2 degree ainticlockwise.

[wasker]

Nice improvement Runecaster, add that archway you're talking about.

Koshime that's really nice, the values lock good aswell as the the composition.

[koshime]

Runecaster > A quick run through.

Perspective wise, if you draw multiple lines originiating from your single vanishing point, you'll quickly find out which areas of highlights are inperspective and those that are not (the pyramid temples above the 4th tier are slightly out of perspective)

The temple side facing the viewer is too dark, and mayhaps not thick enough (thin pyramidal cheese cake wedge design?) and probably, a 2nd viewpoint (hidden from view and dissappearing into the far right and meet the far horizon line), Thin highlights, lighter than that side will give an illusion that there is arising plateau.

The addition of a bridge liek device will be quite interesting.
Just remember, to keep it all in perspective...and it will be great!

Glogg > your enviroment theme has good value and perspective. I guess the only critique is the main pillar like turret-gates are rather featureless, and tiny slits/ fortification details/ windows on the highlit areas, can give a sense of epicness relative to the people entering the gate. Saying that, you're good to go for colour pass/completion (where you can add more details, and seperate the foreground/midground and backgroudn sucessfully. I envision the far background tower, to have a sharp blast of yellow sunlight against a background of blue/red/yellow

[Runecaster]

Koshime - wow that looks amazing!! Can't wait to see more :)

Thanks for your advice, I did the best I could :D I drew a bazillion lines and fixed the perspective (I Hope) and added the temple in the middle. I totally guessed on the shadow it threw -- I also added the funkyness up top just for fun :D

Anyway....

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirosketches5.jpg


oh dangit, I forgot to lighten the backs of the buildings on the left. Will do that next time :)

[koshime]

Notice anythign special?


By adding that building that you thought was in the middle, but eyeballign it, you used a golden ratio (i.e 1/3rd Top left). Good job!

[wasker]

gl0gg; I don't know if the upper left's going to be a problem, but if you want more balance you could try blocking out that part of the image with other buildings in the distance/airships or whatever your world contains :)

Koshime: Golden cut? I thought that was slightely to the left and above the middle of the picture. Mind clarifying? :blush:

Runecaster: I like your archway none the less :thumbsup:




Tried to fix the perspective and it does look abit odd in my eyes. The 2 vp are now on the same horizon, I made the horizon circular due to the frogeye perspective. Is it still wrong?



http://www.wasker.com/temple3.png

[lagatta]

Hi folks,

Here is my entry for the Grand temple theme.
My thumbnail starts with a simple 2 pp.

I am thinking of altering the horizontal line a bit 2 degree ainticlockwise.

Nice thumbnail Chee, I just have one crit : I think at the moment the arc on the right site seems to fall to the front, maybe it´s because there is some kind of triangel between the tempel and the arc which may disrupt the two objects. :D Sorry it´s so dif. for me to explain. I hope you understand what I mean. BUt maybe it´s jsut me who is seeing it.:shrug:


So I hopefully will get my thumbnail further developed this evening.

[wasker]

added some colors, obliterating details.

http://www.wasker.com/temple4.png

[Philipstraub]

this is great to see guys...I'm really glad you're all sharing with each other. I'll try and stop by from time to time as well.

Phil

[audit]

hideously late here..

rune- it's been great following the progress
chee- ummm..i'll try and think of a crit sometime..

Just an idea, based on the porch of maidens at erechtheum. I'll try and get it looking good.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/86audit19/cgforums/step-kl.jpg

[Vahn]

heres a first sketch. Some fortresslike entrance to a big temple structure:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/Vahnin/t1.jpg

wasker: oooh hard perspective u choose there :O but cool :) could be somewhere in shadow of the colossus hehe

Runecaster: The addition in the middle worked well :thumbsup: I agree with koshime, that the the structures on the right irritate a little being so thin.

[gl0gg]

Okay, so here is my last value sketch, added some details on the towers, ther'll probably be some more when I go into cleanup mode.

What I need very much though is some pointers on how to begin the coloring process. From what I understand, the point with a value sketch is to keep the values in it during the coloring process, or will those change since different colors have different local values (purple is dark and yellow is light, for example)? If I just do an overlay in photoshop and dab some colors on the pic, it looks kinda like a child did it. When I on the other hand try and improvise the colors, it gets really bland, and I have difficulties handling the values. Does anyone have a good tip on how to go from b/w to color? Should I just paint in the local colors children-style and then take care of atmospheric perspective and stuff like that?

Koshime - your thumb looks cool, it is going to be interesting to see the progress and how it will turn out.

[koshime]

Gloog > that is a very good question, and a tricky but not impossible one to answer. You are right, the purpose of this week's method is to achieve the value and composition first, which is subsequently carried through into the coloruing phase.

Lets start Week Two's challenges with a small but hopefully useful preamble.
The following is not application specific but illustrates photoshop's ability becasue it has better uber layer functions/manipulation whereas similar results can be produced in Painter IX with limited effect

Many years ago,
I came to a similar conclusion. Painting a lineart or monochrome painting is near impossible.
Or is it?


Week Two: From monochrome to colour
Photoshop

Photoshop is like pandoras box.
Multiple applications, found on a daily basis via different combinations

Adding Colour

You can add colour via the Layers function. Using Gloog's image to start off with (since he asked nicely)

http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/LayersFunctions1.jpg

2/ Both Colour balance and curves achieve similar results.





Curves - controls RGB, Red, Green or Blue via a linear relationship/curves graph function that can be altered at any point (by dragging with your mouse)
Colour Balance - controls, RGB midtones, highlights, shadows via sliders
http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/LayersFunctions2.jpg



3/ Using the curves function, small alterations (SMALL changes) produce a marked effect. Some experimentation is crucial to applying this method. Essentially, you can tweak a picture to a different colour. You can then, either 1/ leave it in this new colour, 2/ erase out areas you do not like, or 3/paint it in (via, inverting - Ctrl-I, then painting into your mask. Your brush will either be Black or white. Painting black onto a white layer, erases the colour mask on/off)


http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/test02e.jpg



4/ Using just the curves function tool, multiple times, and flattening. I briefly added red, blue, yellow and highlights, and contrast (darkening)


Hope that was useful

[koshime]

PStraub > Wow! its great to see the man that taught us all, drop by. We're all very honoured to have been taught invaluable tips, techniques and methods to improving our artwork (not limited to just enviroment design).

When (not if) Philip Straub next hosts another workshop, I strongly urge/recommend everyone to participate for a great session and opportunity to learn under this great master!

Group Critique/review: Pending...



Wasker
http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/temple4.jpg

- Wasker, the perspective is a little challenging to paint in. The Tower requires a bit of perspective change to be inline with its 3rd vanishing point (ground). I added small amount of atmospheric perspective. Hope that was useful



Runecaster
TScholes
Darklord
Arlekin

[gl0gg]

Koshime - Thanks alot for all that great information, it really helps! I will get right on it trying to see if I can force the curves into submission. Before I uprez and start detailing, I'll post a color comp to check if I am on the right track.

Thanks again, I am sure this is a very nice way of altering a picture even if there are colors already blocked in, so you can use this workflow anywhere in the progress.

*edit* here's my first stab at the color comp. I have tried to keep the background a little cooler than the mg (the towers) in order to push them a little forward. If someone has any spontaneous thoughts it would be greatly appreciated. */edit*

[lagatta]

so here we go, my next update of the sketch. But I´m still not really happy with it. I think I have to change the whole composition.

[gl0gg]

Hey Jennifer, cool to see you post your color comp. Here are my 5 cent or how they say: I think the reason it feels a little weird is that the lower and upper vanishing point are too close to each other, so you get that less-than-90-degree angle on the upper right of your main house with the yellow mark on it. Same goes for a couple of other places, to the right and left in your pic. You might also want to crop something, and zoom in a little for added drama.

I have started to noodle a little on my pic here, mainly the buildings in the background. It's hysterically difficult to paint in marks that look as if they mean something, which is very annoying. I am not sure on how to do the details in a more effective/better way, I will see if I will put some phototextures on a little here and there maybe. Crits are very welcome, as always. This pic is actually in A4 @ 300 dpi in original size right now.

Good luck and keep it up!

[razz]

Some little more crap I've done. Well they suck not only because I'm a total begginer to environment painting but also because I suck at painting from imagination. Wouldn't be posting or showing these to anyone, but gotta learn, so here they are. And they're really quick, so nothing to expect. I'll hopefully start pushing one of my thumbs further...

And you guys are all doing an awesome job. Pushes me more to learn environment painting.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5564/shit1my0.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/446/shit2jt6.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2369/shit3qv3.jpg

[koshime]

Hi guys and gals,
hope you are all keeping fine. I was wondering how last week's compositions have been keeping, and whether
everyone is ready to progress to the colouring/completion stage

Razz > I quite like the perspective in the third image. perhaps yo ucan incorporate the coloru thumb in the first, within the structure of the third.

[wasker]

Audit: Good sense to texture, as most of your speedpaints have :) One crit is that you got all objects on the right half of the picture making it very heavy and I think the lightning might be a tad wrong aswell since the statues in the background get darker eventhough the lightsource is closer to them.

Vahn: Thank you :) I'll do my best.
I like your pic and the use of colors. I only miss somekind of object or person for scale purposes.


Razz: The 2nd and the 3rd are the best in my opinion. Develop further.

Koshime: First of all, thanks for another insight in photoshop tricks of trade. I've tried curves once or twice but never this way. Do you keep colors seperated (greens, blues and reds) when you do the colorjob so you can tweak the colors seperately?

Thanks showing me the perspective-flaws, first I didn't quite believe you so I did a perpsectivecheck on it and realised you were right :applause:
If you got the time, I'm abit curious what you mean by the atmospheric perspective (I bet it's something quite obvious but I'm a blond swede :cry: ).

Deadline's around the corner!

[Runecaster]

LOL wasker!

What he means by atmospheric perspective is that the farther things get away from us, the viewer - the more they desaturate and tend towards the grey.

[koshime]

Hi there folks,

not sure if I lost half the enviroment group participants from last week, but christmas is coming along the corner.

Wasker > Run is right on. Atmospheric perspective means, essentially there is haze/dust in the enviroment, so that things nearby are more focused and contrasted, and thigns far away, hazy, general shapes only, less details discerned (i hesistate to say blurry - becasue the last thign you want to do is gaussian blur yoru bg to death.....)

Now,
I have a question for the group.

For the next theme,
I was going to suggest Vehicle rendering within an interior
eg. spaceship within a hangar

To tackle such a project,
I was going to

1/ Week one: concentrate on vehicle design/discuss how to draw a vehicle
2/ Week two: interior enviromental lighting + vehicle
3/ Week three: bring it all together (colour or pure monotones)

Its a mixture of industrial design and painting


Secondly,
dependant on how the group feels, if you need more time to complete this week's assignment/theme one. I can prolong the colouring period till next week OR
should I start next next theme, showing how to render/design vehicles after this week??

On the off note, here is what i've been doing this week

http://www.medievalfx.com/infinity/typhon.jpg


http://www.medievalfx.com/infinity/Avex-Immolata.jpg

http://www.medievalfx.com/infinity/Avex-ImmolataSketch.jpg


For such vehicle designs,
one can either draw on pen/paper or digitally.
Either way works well. but we can discuss that after some feedback.

Enjoy! And happy holidays!

[Sycada]

Hi there folks,

not sure if I lost half the enviroment group participants from last week, but christmas is coming along the corner.



Yeah sorry man. After I got over a horrible cold I found myself in the middle of a pretty full on week so I haven't really had much time for art unfortunately and have had to bow out of this weeks stuff. Hoping to get back on board again now.

[EmilVisti]

I better join in with the vehicle in environment next time, I really need the practice and it sounds fun for sure. When will that start?

Also, I hope I won't get laughed out of the thread.. I've hardly done any environment work at all and my perspective skills are way beyond wonky. Especially interior.




(I'm guessing I'm too late for the temple exterior?)

[razz]

Thanks for comments Koshime and Wasker. Much appreciated! Ah, now I really should develop one or two of all the thumbs I've done. Only if there's enough time.

I'm extremely low on time now. 4 pieces to finish for the art school, one for the school and working on own 2 big studies and one for the OFDW20. So yeah...

I'd vote for prolonging the first assigment, because I really want to push some of my thumbs forward. I'd probably would still do that if you decide to start another theme. I would only love to hear some criticism on it to make it looks better.

So, Koshime, I think it's for you to decide. I'm not even sure about the amount of time I'll have in these few weeks, so ignore my opinion to this question. See what others will say.

Good luck all

[koshime]

Ok guys.
Well, I'll start the vehicle Design aspect next week friday.
So, try to get in some coloured stuff this weekend

All the best

[wasker]

:blush: Teeheee! I knew it was something simple, here's an update I can't tell if there's more to be done.

http://www.wasker.com/temple5.png

Inspiring examples of works, Koshime and a intresting upcoming theme.
I'll be right on it! :arteest:

[koshime]

Here was what i was working on this week,
but did not have time to complete it more due to time restraints.

The colours are NOT quite right. Wish I could have added more decorations, lighting, and improved the composition but the deadline was due today...so, here it is:

It was a LARGE painting....4700 x 1300 at 300dpi.
Crits are much appreciated

[gl0gg]

Koshime - cool stuff as usual. I feel that it might be a little compositionally thin/streched. Maybe you'd get some more feeling of depth and drama if you made some of the stuff in the pic overlap? Also, the saturation is kind of the same in the whole painting, maybe that would help push stuff in and out of the painting?


Not sure I am qualified to crit your stuff, but that's what jumped at me. Again, good stuff though. I especially like the shacks in the lower right, they look very realistic and fit nicely there.


edit - 'kay, so here's my picture. I'm going away over the weekend, so I won't get anything done until next week if the deadline hasn't passed then. As always, I would appreciate the hell out of some crits. Esp. if someone can help me a little on how to make the pic look a little more finished.

[Runecaster]

koshime and glogg those are just gorgeous, what inspirations!! How did you do the teeny people glogg?

I never got farther with mine than what I showed with the new temple -- life is really hectic around here near christmas and I got sidetracked with my WIP thread - lots of other stuff too :D

Anyway, I'm game for the vehicle - I've never done anything like it even once so to try something new sounds really fun :)

Anyway, wonderful work everyone - wasker, I LOVE the water, the coloring is beautiful and good job on the atmospheric perspective!

[sestanis]

I apologize for not being more involved recently. Work and the holidays have been taking up most of my free time. I'm happy to see this is still a great active thread!

New Years Resolution: Stop slacking and get environments going :)

[gl0gg]

Runecaster - Thanks for the kind words! The people are really simple, I just painted two very small and simple people, and made those into a brush (edit-> define brush). Then I adjusted the scattering, size and opacity. Then you have a little crowdbrush you can go haywire with :)

[wasker]

Cool pic Koshime. It looks abit spread though, perhaps adding more houses to make it more of a city would be better. There's pretty much empty space in the middle atm.

Your pic came out well, gl0gg.


I've been thinking about next theme and did a small sketch aswell.
My idea of a vehicle controlled by multiple creatures. Being able to adapt to the enviroment and task given by unscrewing a crewmember and replacing it with a more suitable.

[Runecaster]

thanks for the hint about the teeny people - I am gonna try that out sometime :D


So about the next project - gonna start after x-mas or? I was thinking of trying some thumbs out today...

[koshime]

I'm going to post a few images of how to approach vehicle design over the weekend for you folks to play about with

I'm still collecting the data/references that you might need.
And once i get to my wacom, i can do a stages to drawing a vehicle.

The secret is all in the proportionality, relative to the perspective you've choosen.
You have to imagine you're sculpting a shape or form from wood/foam

Wallah!

[Runecaster]

Oooh thanks for that visual image Koshime - that is definately something to chew on for the time being! :)

[koshime]

Its similar to how, special effects teams produce a alien model of a concept car.

Let's say you want to make a space truck.

Using just a ballpoint pen, draw a block of wood/rectangle lightly


You start with a block of wood, then, think of carving out the curves.
So you place some random ovals in the back to denote engines..
perhaps, you make the front curve down abit to show it is front and not the rear
Add some streamlined panels on the side.
Add in some further shapes to join your main block
Perhaps, extend the block with another block to denote carriage/cargo transport.

As your image takes fold, you add weight/line wieght to the lower edges/exterior edges . This punches up yoru image significantly.

Try it out!

[Runecaster]

I am really so very glad you put it out this way, it makes much more sense! I totally plan to try it out, never done anything like that before and it sounds really fun! :D

[razz]

Thanks again for the comments, Koshime and Wasker, I appreciate any help I can get.

So I've chosen one thumb to push further, although I wanted to push further more than one of them. Maybe I'll do that, but now onto this one. Very little done on this, maybe 20mins, so nothing much changed, but I'll work on it.
Now I'll be on holiday away from the pc 'till new years, so I'll continue painting this when I get back. Maybe I'll have some ideas sketched for the vehicle if it's not too late when I get back.
Any suggestions on this would be appreciated. Not exactly what would push this environment further, but what would help on all environment painting. Thank you.
You guys are doing a great job here. Learned some stuff when watching all of you work.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/8670/colorstart1of4.jpg

[koshime]

For our second theme,
I will start with a preamble of how to tackle vehicle design via simple ballpoint pen and paper vs digital.

Hope this helps somewhat.
Happy holidays!
Chee - enviromental support junkie

Pen and paper

1/ Layout a general perspective grid (i use a simple X-Y axis)

2/ Develop your vechile as if you were building a ship/sculpting a form out of wood (draw it volumetrically, showing the ribs/lines/panels. This allows you to teach your mind how it will look like in 3D)

3/ Lightly, draft in some parallel lines and shapes. (At this stage, form is more important than details)

4/ Once you are generally happy with the shape, get a large marker/dark fat ink and give the lower edges and outline a good firm shape. Areas underneath warrant a double line width or heavier line width

Determine a light source, and stick to it

5/ Now, the fun bit begins. The rendering. Different people put in variations of detail. In general, put in more detail where you want your viewer to read the vechile image. I generally put in more vechile markings and scratchings with detail

The less shading of a vechile, the easier it reads (for a game modeller) but for more solidity, a darker shaped obeject reads better. For this purpose, using grey marker pens are idle to give cheap and effective form

http://www.medievalfx.com/infinity/fighter-progression.jpg


Example 2

A simplified example 2, using similar principles as used above in 5 simple steps

http://medievalfx.com/infinity/interceptorsketch.jpg

Finalised concept

http://medievalfx.com/infinity/scorpius-sidethorn.jpg



Concepting via digital media

http://www.medievalfx.com/infinity/shoefighter-progression.jpg

http://www.medievalfx.com/infinity/sstation8progression.jpg

[Runecaster]

Wow Koshime, WOW. I am just so excited to try that digital method -- it's quite quite obvious I didn't in my thumbs - but now I will of course!

So what I did with the thumbs was try to get down a general idea/feel -- they are /AWFUL/ but that's ok, I'm learning :D

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirothumb2_1.jpg

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirothumb2_2.jpg

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirothumb2_3.jpg

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/envirothumb2_4.jpg

I really love this whole 'from the noggin' stuff -- I mean, it's really really BAD right now, but its GOOD practice to just /imagine/ ya know?

So what I was hoping was feedback on which background/basis was the strongest to put a vehicle in? I will of course go back and re-do the vehicle ideas... try to understand I spent maybe 5 minutes on each one, except the last, I spent like 10 minutes on it :D It's just the roughest crap imaginable :D

[koshime]

The second thumb allows for the best amount of scale/and perspective to display your vehicle indoors. happy holidays Rune! hope you enjoy playing baout with the digital method. Its just a quick/dirty way to make vehicles...

[Runecaster]

Thank you Koshime! I tried your method and using thumb#2 this is what I got about after 1 hour or so...

I've never ever done anything like this before, so please bear with me, I know its bad :)

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/environ_practice2_wip1.jpg

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/environ_practice2_wip1.jpg.jpg

[koshime]

Hello Rune,

the main thing to consider is this. Is the vehicle the main object or the spacious hangar?
Using this, you can decide which to portray in the best light an
d subsequently decide the type of perspective to use.

Hope that helps (more importantly, make sure you're having fun ....)

[Runecaster]

Hmm, I'm confused - are you trying to explain why you said #2 was the best one to use or are you trying to say I need to do something different? haha =D

[koshime]

In the recent WIP,
it is hard to tell if you are illustrating the hangar (with a vehicle inside) or the vehicle is the focus of the composition (if which is the case, needs an alternative perspective and larger close up of the vehicle)

[Runecaster]

Oh I see what you are saying! If I just made the vehicle larger would that work?

[Xdreamer79]

http://www.medievalfx.com/infinity/fighter-progression.jpg

@koshime: so you paint those without a ruler? All freehand? The details are amazing and I will have a try at things like this since I love sci-fi :) Thanks a lot for your input.

[MaxParticle]

Hi guys, I'm new to digital painting having received a Graphire 4 for christmas. I have been inspired by this thread over the last couple of weeks and have been eagerly waiting to plug in the tablet and get going! Here's how the sketch is looking after the first half hour of tentative brushstrokes. I was pleased with how the background developed, but am finding the going a bit trickier for the interior. I'm also trying to take into account the light source from outside the hangar bay. The little spaceship I sketched on the last image was inspired by the British RAF's Vulcan bomber. Feel free to rip my image to shreds with crits! :)

Runecaster: That's one cool little spacecraft.

Koshimi: Thanks for sharing some of your knowledge in this thread, it's much appreciated!

http://www.davidlaycock.co.uk/cgtalk/painting/spaceport1.jpg

[koshime]

Hi guys,

hope everyone has had a good christmas break and new year.
I will rounding up the images from the previous theme over the next few days.

In the interim,
I am posting the next theme which is
ESG002 - Interior Hangar despicting a Sci-Fi vehicle

The particular challenge of this means this will be a three week project, rather than two.

Week 1: Vehicle concept
Week 2: Interior hangar design/concept
Week 3: Incorporating both

For week one,
I would like everyone to collect various references to any kind of sci-Fi vehicle or aerospace vehicle. Using these references (3-6 references), you can design your own
Sci-fi vehicle of choice

The particular challenge of this is trying to get all the elements in perspective,
especially the design, location and functionality of the engines that propel the vehicle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Week One - Concepting a vehicle:

Summary: Using basic primitives, 2-3 vehicles will be illustrated from various angles, to demonstrate that most vehicle can be reduced to either a box-like rectangular shape or a cylindrical shape or a combination of both. In addition to other primitives as add ons (eg. pyramidal cones, octaganol/hexaganol shapes)

Reference: pending


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a summary, here is a mini tutorial of what to expect in week three

http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/InteriorHangar.jpg


happy holidays!

[Xdreamer79]

So can everybody take part in this contest?

Oh and from my previous entry - perhaps you overlooked it :)


@koshime: so you paint those without a ruler? All freehand? The details are amazing and I will have a try at things like this since I love sci-fi :) Thanks a lot for your input.

[koshime]

XDreamer> This thread is a bi monthly open group participation event (rather than a competition). Feel free to join in if you like. With regards to the concept sketches. Yes, i mostly draw freehand (98%) normally on a train/undergroudn train

[wasker]

Hmm. You're good at giving tutorials and tips koshime. Your last series of step to step pictures is quite neat but this time I think you have overdone your picture abit, I actually think that the 8th pic is the best, where texture and and light is balanced. The 9th got a roughned feel to it (sharpen filterx2?) and the paintjob on the 10th seems forced or rushed, obliterating previous details. Maybe it's just me and my silly eyes. I'll start posting here again next year :D , abit busy this weekend . Happy new year all :)

[MaxParticle]

The focus of the painting is the ship in the foreground, so it has been given a new layer of paint to begin the process of popping it out from the background. (I presume!)

[sturmkim]

First Thanks to Koshime for opening great tread.
I'v been watching previous one. Very interested and wanted participated but Hard to find the time ...

so. here is some basic concept sketches for SF vehicle..
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/Interceptor/interceptorTypeA00.jpg

and some composite ideas..
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/Interceptor/interceptorTypeA.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/Interceptor/interceptorTypeA01.jpg

[Sycada]

Cool way to start a new year project Chee. Doing the research first as part of the assignment definately works well as a great way to sink into the subject. So here's a couple of images to draw some inspiration from.

[Xdreamer79]

Any advices for a brush in painter to do the lineart like in the last image you've posted?

[koshime]

The last image is le good ole pen and paper.

For an equivalent, jsut use any hard edge round brush in photoshop/painter...(although painter is not as convenient to draw straight lines as photoshop)

[razz]

Xdreamer, try using the Scratchboard Tool found in the Pen category. I found it pretty nice for the linework. But at first it might really be a good idea to use pen and paper. This is a good advice for myself, because of not being good at drawing with a tablet. This time starting from a big blobs of color might not work that well...You get the idea.

As for myself, I'm gonna pass this one in order to work on the temple, which I haven't touched because i was away on holiday.

Good luck everyone!

[Xdreamer79]

Thanks a lot guys. The problem is I can't draw digital either on paper but I prefer the digital medium a lot more. Since I got the DVD from ryan church (introduction to corel painter) I enjoy corel a lot more as photoshop for practicing.

I used the scratchboard tool but I guess I really have to sit my ass down and draw - draw and draw.

Thanks for any help, great!

[gl0gg]

Hey everyone! Cool stuff going on here, great to see a new assignment!

Sturmkim - Looks cool, I imagine the finished picture will look great! Would be nice to see your thumbs with a little more contrasts in them so you can make out foreground/background or the design on the vehicle a little clearer :)

Max Particle - Classic design, man, it makes for a cool picture. Everything in the last pic is kinda the same value though, so it's really hard to make out the ship. If you can make the pic work in greyscale first, it will be much easier to make it work in color. I think Koshime went through it some time ago in this thread.

Koshime - It's really great you take so much time sharing what you know with everyone, nice tutorials! I agree with Wasker that maybe the last stage in the last tutorial is a small step too far, I think the image in step 9 kicks ass!

I did a couple of thumbs with inks, pencil and markers and would love some opinions on which vehicle feels the most interesting, some of them feels a little old.. I was thinking maybe I would try and do this assignment with analog (sp?) coloring, would be interesting. Is that violating the rules?

*edit* I know the perspective is a little wonky here and there, these are more to explore the designs, I'll make sure to put up a proper perspective grid when I refine the model I want to use a little more :)

[koshime]

ESG 002: Interior hangar despicting a Sci-Fi vehicle

Week One: Designing and concepting Sci-Fi vehicles

As ireterated last week, we will start the theme by concepting and exploring how to draw a decent sci-fi vehicle (my favourite pastime). Firstly, there is no right or wrong concepts
but, all fantastical vehicles still observe the rules of perspective and believability.

Someone told me once: "The best fantasy/sci-fi inventions are 30% imagination, 70% real = 100% believability." This adept I have found seems to be true, and I hence pass on this small piece of information to you to test it fully.

NB: this follows roughly the rules or ratios of 1/3rd (notice things with 3rd's seem to have a magic number/connotation ...)

I will introduce this week with three related tutorials.

Concepting a

Boxed shaped vehicle
Cylindrical shaped vehicle
Organic vehicle

1/ Boxed shaped Vehicle

http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/box-tutorial.jpg

[sturmkim]

hi all
here is some workout for boxed shape concept.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/concept/interceptorTypeD.jpg

well i started box shape....
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/concept/interceptorTypeD00.jpg
then
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/concept/interceptorTypeD01.jpg

gl0gg//thanks for your suggestion..so i tryed to get high contratst this one.
I like a snail shape one from your concept..!

[koshime]

Following the tutorial above,
here are some generic methods to colouring a concept quick and dirty.

Feel free to ask if any points/methods are unclear:

http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/box-tutorial2.jpg
(http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/box-tutoria2.jpg)

Final composition:
http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/transtarmekurion3.jpg

[Xdreamer79]

Awesome but the right turbine looks not right in perspective for me for any reason. Looks a bit to round.

[koshime]

Why would a turbine not be circular?

[Runecaster]

I think he just means the circle should be in perspective, as right now it looks like a straight on flat circle, when it should be elliptical in correct perspective.


Despite that (which I didn't notice until he said something) it looks fantastic, such excellent details and a /great/ tutorial, thank you :)

[Xdreamer79]

I think he just means the circle should be in perspective, as right now it looks like a straight on flat circle, when it should be elliptical in correct perspective.


Despite that (which I didn't notice until he said something) it looks fantastic, such excellent details and a /great/ tutorial, thank you :)


Yes he is right I meant it in the perspective way. Its funny - I can't draw and have horrible problems with perspective but that thing catched my eyes the most :( Thanks for the tutorial anyways :=) Great inspiration.

[nitrocom]

Oh my my my...

I'm seeing through what i missed all this time :) great topic...

This is on my subscription from now on :)

I know i
i'm bit of late but may be i ll catch u guys...

Concept design that's what i want to do :))

:applause:

Keep going :)

P.S: I'm so new to this that i need to be studied :)

[gl0gg]

Hey guys!

Koshime - interesting tutorial, as always. Thanks man =)

So I took one of my thumbnails on the previous page and sketched it out a little larger and in oil. Kinda unsure on what needs to be done with it next to make it better (except for the finish of course, I know it's really sketchy :)), so crits are appreciated.

/Joel

[koshime]

hey gloog.

Great illustration of the vehicle.
The next thing is additional lighting, finer details and ship glows (to give it scale . smaller local lighting on ship panels can lend it life)

For example:

In our concept illustration below, you can have a sense of immense scale

http://www.fl-tw.com/Infinity/Media/Screenshots/flamberge11.jpg

[sturmkim]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/Interceptor/interceptorTypeD02.jpg
this is what i got so far..what can i do to my little guy?

gl0gg; hey nice value on ship.

koshime; very nice tutorial!! and i tried to follow your direction to make my sketch above...

[Sycada]

Stupid PC broke down this week so I don't have much to show but I thought I'd post this quickie of the ship idea I was thinking of. Hopefully get somewhere a little further this week.

[koshime]

Ollie > your ship is bang on in perspective and design. You can opt to try to design a cylindrical shaped ship or box ship if you want as well before heading into interior hangar design

Strumkin> A slight tweak to improve the vehicle perspective will make it look like a good design. The gun on the far left, is too much like a rifle/AK-47 or pump shot gun and some adjustments to make it look more like an autocanon will help loads. Otherwise good start!

[sturmkim]

Thank you for your comment koshime.
actually it is a Rifle,,,,, and
here is some prespective study for my ship(interceptor type D)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/Interceptor/TypeD_00.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/Interceptor/TypeD_01.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/Interceptor/TypeD_02.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/Interceptor/interceptorTypeD_profile.jpg

ps. i dunno which is improve version of prespective... Could you paint over one of my image?

Sycada// i can feel POWER of your ship!

[lagatta]

hi,

happy new year to all of you.
So here is my first contribution to this second theme. It´s just a first quickly done sketch. It´s not as sci-fi as all the others here in this thread. But I´ll take it as basis for further developing my sci-fi vehicel from it. So any ideas, comments, critics are most welcome :)

thanks

[Sycada]

Thanks guys.

I've played with a few hanger design ideas and ended up with this sketch. Gonna build it up more and give it some colour in the next few days but feel free to comment on the sketch as it stands. I'd love any feedback as always.
Went with a more organic feeling hanger with storage bays at the sides for all the ships rather than a more industrial construction.

[Spex84]

Awesome! Great tutorials, Koshime.
I did a bunch of thumbs over the holidays in anticipation...problem is, I never really get past the thumbnail stage, so this thread will hopefully push me along.
Apologies for the abominable wideness of this image.
I'm trying to decide whether to do a mechanical ship, or try something different, perhaps based on coral formations.
*My host seems to be reluctant to upload more than 1/2 of my image :P I'll edit this post later with the complete image.
http://filexoom.com/files/13358/sketches/ShipHangar_roughs01.jpg

[koshime]

Ollie > Would love to see more definition to the organic hangar. At the moment its kinda blurry/faint

Spex84 > Hi there. there are some gorgeous designs, thumbnails and compositional ideas. My advice woudl be to choose one of them or all of them and fly with em one by one!

[sturmkim]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/sturmkim/concept/dock01.jpg
here is my dock thumbnail...
just trying to get ordinary shipyard feeling.
critiques or comment will be appreciated..

[Sycada]

Here's a revision to the hanger. I'm not that happy with it, it still lacks detail and I haven't given it enough attention really but I'm switching to the final comp now because of time. I'll make sure the details come through there. :)

Sturmkim, good start, if u bring the view down a bit then you could get rid of some of the tension that the top bar is causing. Also bringing the ship up more, into the frame would help give the image a clearer focus.

[Sycada]

wow it's quiet in here :)
anyway I've still been doing this when I get the chance and here's where I've gotten to so far with the final. It's still not in colour yet but I'm just gonna push on and keep working on it beyond this week until it's done properly.
Any comments on what's there so far will be apprieciated.

[koshime]

Hi there Guys,
Been buys workign late 6am to 8pm shifts this week and over the weekend. the horror ends tommroow but am pretty tired.

So in the mean time,
For the two here that have done some hangar shots.

1/ Strumkin: the lighting and value are not focused enough. I've done a quick paint over (attachment) and tried to get more symettry into the picture. Also, I've rotated and skewed the perspective abit, but still using yoru 1 point perspective. hope that gives you some ideas.

The horizon line/focus now veers towards the top Right (1/3rd goldenratio)

I gave the far horizon a bright band of lighting to give focus, and made the hangar look larger. I also, added mroe lighting and subject focus to the far left.

http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/dock01-PO.jpg

2/ Ollie: The hangar is quite interesting and organic. however, your vehicle is too indistinct. options are to draw the vehicles large in a new project but in the same perspective, then importa and resize into the hangar scene perhaps

[T-Scholes]

Hey Koshime, any idea why I can't see any images from your site let alone the site itself? I've had others test the links and they work fine for them. I'd like to get back into this, but the tutorials are too good to miss. -thanks!

[sturmkim]

koshime// Thank you very much for paint over..
I'll try to find some time to sit down and paint soon...
I sort of kick off from cg industry now and got 'pay the bill 'job .....

maybe i can't match time frame here but i definitely finish this 'hanger one..

Thanks again and good luck for everyone.

[koshime]

Okies.

Its been a lil quiet here so here are two other hangar types exterior space and terrain space hangars.

Seeing as there isnt much follow through, I'll use the interim time to start a new topic.
If anyone has somethign they like to develop, please speak up and we can concentrate on that. Anythign form composition,etc related to Enviroment or vehicles or industrial Design or even plain sketching.

In the mean time,
here are some pics. Enjoy!

http://www.medievalfx.com/infinity/navnstardocks.jpg


http://www.medievalfx.com/infinity/colony.jpg

[MasterErroSennin]

hey good thread i got inspired by you spaceships and tried to make a carrier type ship myself so here it is

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9689/carrierclasssscopybu0.png (http://imageshack.us/)

[koshime]

Feb 07: Next Theme: Shagri La

For the next theme, I'm going to scale down the difficulty and make it looser as possible.
I'd like us to focus on painting a more open intepretation composition for our enviroment as long as it embodies the concept of Shangri La. Imagine what that name conjures, the enviroment and fauna and feel.

Using this setting, I'd like us to explore 2 to 3 point perspective and to improve our value studies

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MasterErroSennin > Hi there. Good to have you on board. With regards to a spaceship theme, a carrier or hauler can be quite nice to concept and draw as long as you have in mind, the size and role the concept has to portray. You shoudl be able to show its size withotu using any otehr vehicles nearby for relativity eg. smaller windows , bridge relative to size of ships. Challenging but worthwhile

[koshime]

Link to a 1998 exploration of the himalayan area reputed to be Shangri la

ShangRi la
(http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/ESG03ref1.pdf)

[koshime]

A pdf despicting the ESG2 -SciFi vehicle in a hangar mini workshop can be found here:

I have summarised it in a simple PDF
enjoy

ESG2 - SciFi Vehicle and Hangar tutorial (http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/ESG02.pdf)

[therber2]

nice thread ill probably participate in this. Give me a little time to work out an environment

[killermachine]

thank you thank you thank you.i tried to follow such thread on conceptart but it wasnt this detailed.i'm goin to b regular on this thread:deal: .i m weak in enviorment so proper guidlines would be a very very good help.im so happy :bounce:

[koshime]

Hi Folks,

Theme 03: Shangri La

I'd like participants to have an open interpretation of the theme. For those without any ideas, imagine a mixture of a lost city within a subtropical paradise or you can draw from the reference of the 1998 discovery above (which I'll shortly condense as a PDF for easier viewing)

I'd like to appeal to a large enough audience from the beginner to advanced and to help everyone improve visibly

I have decided to trial a 4 week period meaning these themes run over a month each. This allows for everyone to solidly build on their image, and for the time poor to participate adequately and hopefully have an AAA image at the end of each theme/month :)

The format will generally be the same

Week 1 to 2

1/ Reference - use 2-3 key images for reference

2/ Value study - the intial composition should be in greyscale focusing on value. It should embody:
</p>



Linear and vertical perspective
Atmospheric perspective
Basic rules of composition: Painter X users will have benefit of the golden ratio overlay, rule of 1/3rd overlay. etc
Week 3

3/ Colour study - Using the initial value study, colour and lighting are used to bring life to the composition for that solid conceptual look. Encompasses


Colour perspective : Near objects more contrasted, darker, Far objects lighter, less detailed. In addition the way colour interactis with atmosphere - is crucial to produce a stunning image.


Week 4

4/ Finalise - Final week to complete your images for that AAA look and group feedback/critique amongst peers

[wasker]

Great theme, Koshime! I'll give this a shot. A week you say? hmm.. yes excellent, just enough time for the master plan!

[koshime]

Yes wasker - you have 2 weeks to gather references and start an initial value study

[mattgamer]

I read through the whole thread and love it to death. Just wish I didn't miss the spaceship and hanger one.

I'll be working on the reference materials and value study! Woo, this is exciting. Why? Because maybe Koshime will do a paintover of one of my images. I love your paintovers, they are soo sweet! :D You can make anything look awesome because of your experience.

I need to finish an environment piece for a contest, and this is just the place to do it! Thank you [Koshime] for sharing and helping! ;]

[koshime]

OKies folks:

Here are some links to reference material that can possibly be incorporated in one's images.

I'll start off with some images of architecture and nature for a blend of a lost city in nature embodying the esence of Shangri La.

In addition, if you are feeling adventurous, you can use the images below to construct a matte like image on top of your basic concepts as you wish

Enjoy!



http://blog.metrolingua.com/uploaded_images/shangri-la%20016-794193.jpg
http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0538.jpg
http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0440.jpg
http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0460.jpg
http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0476.jpg
http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0602.jpg
http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0699.jpg
http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0659.jpg
http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0669.jpg (http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0669.jpg)
http://www.himalaya4u.de/foto_tibet/Ost-Tibet/image/DSCN0566.jpg
As I find more imagery, I will add additional references to help folks start their composition

Essentially, it is open to intepretation as to what you want to paint or incorporate withon your composition. G luck!

[killermachine]

some thumbnails i started with.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/killermachinez/shang2.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/killermachinez/shang1.jpg

[Maui69]

Hi koshime, was looking at this thread and thought it was a great idea.. was wondering how long more do we have for the shangri la thing?

[koshime]

Killermachine > hi there, some nice thumbnails you have there. The top two thumbnails merged together really have some promise

Maui > For the first two weeks, we gather references and draw value studies for our composition. Feel free to start and join in!

[Maui69]

Thanks Koshime, but im not sure if i would be up to standards with you guys so if im draggin you guys down or something please do let me know, im fine just watching. but in the meantime i shall get to work

[killermachine]

here it is my first established view..im not sure where to put temple cuz im thinkin now that it should be on the other side of mountain facin sunset.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/killermachinez/shangri-latest1.jpg
tell me what can more be done.paintovers are also invited

[koshime]

Now, you shoudl jsut lay down paint.

Just use 3-4 values of grey eg. 20%, 50%, 70%, 90% #and block in structures near and far with them. Go wild, try anything. Dont define anythign too soon, as long as the edges of structures are in perspective, it will look believable!

[koshime]

When I said do a value composition,
here is an example of what i meant.

Anyone can do it, just obesrve the basic rules of perspective, composition and atmospheric perspective (things far away, are lighter, things near are darker)

Should take about 5-10 minutes max.
Paint as LOOSE as possible with the biggest sized brush you can tolerate to use.

ITS all about breaking down your canvas into simple, managable objects your eye can objectify

http://www.medievalfx.com/concepts/shangri.jpg

[killermachine]

here it is.i got late cuz while doing this excersize im trying to learn painter too so....
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/killermachinez/shangri-latest2.jpg
the nearest wall was accidently left light :sad:

[koshime]

kILLERMACHINE > I reckon thenearest railings should not be included
in the composition. In addition, too much white is being used.

If you compare to the painting I added above, the lightest white should be 20% grey.
In addition, the perspective is currently quite flat.

Choose a vanishing point and all the structures should flow from there

[killermachine]

actually its a hanging bridge but makes no difference if its disturbing the composition.i think i should do PS only as im not able to do what i want to in painter right now.i'l correct the rest of composition too:)

[killermachine]

new update:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/killermachinez/shangri-latest2-1.jpg
i know iv stil kept the bottom near waterfall dark but i thought it wouldbe like this if light wasnt reaching there.well stil everyone is welcomed to correct my mistaskes by telling me.i hope i'l see your reply 2moro first thin in mornin koshime.gnite from india:thumbsup:

[Maui69]

hey Koshime, this is a sketch i did for the shangri-la theme. do i go ahead with adding the values on or do i correct this sketch first? i aint sure?http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/maui6969/Shangri-la-sketch.jpg

[killermachine]

i like the idea .wud like to see more progress on it.:thumbsup:

[koshime]

Maui > you cna do both - add value and correct as you go along! just have fun!

[Maui69]

Hi Koshime, will do that.. now im in another pickle. for value what should my starting base be? for this i started with 40% grey. and the rest i strictly used 20%,50%, 70% and 90%. should it be a fixed thing or i can like blend it here and there. and im not sure on how to create that sorta sun-rise/set feel. im also having trouble with the clouds.this is what i got with so farhttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/maui6969/shangri-la.jpg

[Maui69]

sorry for the double post, i did not know how to del the msg thing

[Maui69]

This is the new update of the shangri-la thingie.for this i did research on clouds and sun rise's but im not sure if its right? the perspective doesnt look right for some reason.. i was trying to use 3 point. oh yeah, and how do i play with the tints for colour? or should i wait first?http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/maui6969/shangri-la-1.jpg

[DiM]

Hi Koshime!
This my first post in this tread. i started for the shangri-la theme.
Comments &critics please!
http://dimm3d.mail333.com/baron_test/la.jpg

[koshime]

Maui69 > Hi there. Good effort here. I think if you cover the horizon with a hand, you'll see that the foregroudn perspective works but the horizon line does not. that is because one of the vanishing points steers to the top right, and thus a corresponding horizon line should be quite slanted rather..than horizontal as painted in here.

There is no right and wrong but its easier to correct basic perspective and values now prior to going straight into colouring.

Dim > Ello. I like the general mood and feel of the basic architecture and colour used. I think the image composition can be vastly improved. The buildings on the far left, appear to have different skewed perspectives to the overall picture (which appears to be a one point perspective centred right in the centre between the two valleys. In addition, the giant head begs to be revealed or included in the photo, so you might consider extending the canvas or chopping it out

Hope the feedback helps

[DiM]

Thanks Koshime, I shall try to rebuild a composition.

[Maui69]

hey koshime, thanks.. but i still dont get the horizon thing? like what do u mean by slant it to get the correct perspetive?

[koshime]

maui69 > For a critical breakdown

Good




Some good cliff detail, and sense of architecture
Ugly


Conflicting perspectives: The buildings have perspectives that do not have vanishing points, the vertical perspective of the buildings have no vanishing point and the horizon line (blue) in theory woudl be so high above the picture, you would not be able to see the horizon
I have included two paint overs

1/ your original picture with lines

2/ minor correction using perspective. Try to spot which aspects still need correction. For example, the middle building should not be taller than the nearer building, the lower edges of the building needs to be in perspective.etc, etc

A 3 point perspective is hard to paint in most instances even for seasoned professionals, and the advice to give would be to layout your perspective grid prior to painting and correct as you go along :)

[koshime]

Killermachine > you need to really give your composition more bite.

In the attachment below, i've seperated the objects to three distinct value bandings.

[koshime]

Here is my own submission for this theme.

I used a basic two point perspective. One from the horizon, and the second one skyward.
To get a general sense of lighting, I applied a new layer and used a faint gradient fill.
Time taken: 8 minutes to block in.

Once the initial blocking in aspect is accomplished, check perspective and composition before deciding to



Add colour (easiest way to demonstrate, but not the most efficient: duplicate layer, and apply adjust colour balance or manipulate your curves levels)
Add further details
http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/ESG3-shangrila.jpg

[Maui69]

WOW! thats looks a shit load better.. i knew there was something wrong.. ill go correct the perspective and ill show ya when im done.. thanks alot koshime

[koshime]

Once the initial stage of blocking in values are done,
you can choose to add mroe details and refine your picture more or basically anything (no hard and fast rules)

In this instance, I decided to gradually add colour and details starting with choosing a basic lighting angle and trying to stick with it.

Still have not added any details at this stage but the eye builds up a solid image with the right use of colours and shades. Form and a narrow lighting will help bring your piece to life (and hopefully mine as well :)

Adding Colour
http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/ESG3-shangrila2.jpg


With Grid on
http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/ESG3-shangrila2-grid.jpg

[killermachine]

hey im sorry i got late in replyin,kinda got busy wid work.koshime thnx for digging my mind and putting the thing in my head
i corrected it to this..
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/killermachinez/shangri-latest2-2.jpg
i took a bit of liberty an tried to color it a bit..
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/killermachinez/shangri-lacolortest1copy.jpg
c&C please

[koshime]

Using REFERENCE, you cna try to add some details to yoru mass of mountains and paint them in using the exsiting values you have in the picture to start to add some amazing features.

[koshime]

Hi folks,

We're now in week III, and the task will be to paint our value studies into colour concepts whilst adding colour. You can also choose to add reference pictures to make a matte painting if you desire (via Overlay and varying the opacity)


For some useful advice,
paint your picture
at 50% or smaller - so the overall composition is maintained.

Once you are satisfied that the basic block of structures/objects are in the right places,
you can zoom in to paint in detaisl for near objects!


Have fun!

[Maui69]

I painted over the black and white values for this, corrected the perspective but it still looks weird, this is just the progress.. though is there anyway to paint using the colour balance thing like i saw in the other paintings in this forum koshime?
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/maui6969/shangri-la3.jpg

[koshime]

you have to paint in shades.

So, usign colour balance, you choose a key element forexampl - blue
then using complementary colours you paint the other shades of blue/red/etc in within that pallete range

OTHERWise, if yo upaint everythign in at once, it doesnt work.
Also, if your B&W picture isnt right, it'll become harder to paint in colour

:)

[DiM]

Hi! I rebuilded my composition and i need to next critics.

Thanks!

http://dimm3d.mail333.com/baron_test/la2.jpg

[roggeroo]

hi there,
i only just came across this thread and its great, everyone's got some great ideas and through reading the process of how people have worked it inspired me to have ago.
im primarily a character figure artist but really want to try and strengthen my environment concepts,
i dont know if im too late to join this thread but below are some thumbs i worked on after reading the thread:

thumb01: here wanting to strenghten idea of foregorund, middle and back, thumb here is of mountains with road leading back to temple on hill

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/gokuwade/valley_thumb001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/gokuwade/valley_thumb002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/gokuwade/valley_thumb003.jpg

thumb02: and following same stages again but an entrance to an underground rooms with temples in background

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/gokuwade/temple_thumb001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/gokuwade/temple_thumb002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/gokuwade/temple_thumb003.jpg

any c/c welcome on composition/colour :)
thanks

[koshime]

Excellent.

You are on the right track.
By having simple but sufficient foreground/mid and background objects seperated and compositionally in perspective.

No further major correction is required.

You can proceed to adding detail and further lighting (includes shadows and darkening)

feel free to join in at any point. You're never too late to climb on board

[jaNnBEE]

i love this thread, thanks for the inspiring work and the good support, i would like to join this thing, cause my Wacom Intuos3 GT has arrived today, yaaaaay :applause:

ive done a quick BW sketch, i hope it fits to the topic, critz are very welcome!
im going to get into details now..

but i think the image is quiet boring till now, the point of interest isnt clearly set, i need a building on the right that pops out more, what do you think? maybe i'll fix that.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3481/shangrilamb0.jpg

[roggeroo]

koshime- cheers :) yours is looking good, love the sense of texture in quick brush strokes

maui69- love that view, gives the image real dynamics, sense of seclusion (is that a word haha), with the colours it feels to bright, maybe starting blocking colours that are darker, might help atmosphere.

Dim- looks good, be cool to see detail in temple on left, maybe to finish add water mist at bottom of waterfall (when get to that stage)

jannbee- like the composition here, yeah i was thinking putting something on the left,

everyones are looking good, im almost scared to put mine up, anyway heres what iv got so far:

iv taken the greyscale study and started to block in colours, lights and darks, adding some direction and form for the rock faces, i havent added the bridge yet.

iv done 2 versions here with different hue backgrounds, cant decide which one is stronger, quite like the bluer one, any comments?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/gokuwade/valley_thumb004.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/gokuwade/valley_thumb005.jpg

[Kaidonni]

I'm thinking of joining in this thread, it looks exciting. Excellent work all around.

I haven't really done anything like this before, so it will be new to me. But, first time for everything.

[koshime]

Welcome,

Feel free to pitch in at any point.
There is a relatively loose but guided approach to improving your art in terms of industrial design and enviromental paintings.

[jaNnBEE]

@rogeroo, ive updated my pic just a little bit, but tomorrow ive got an exam ive been learning for the last days and got no time for painting :\ but on the weekend im leaving this behind and going to update my picture. i really like the way youve painted the rocks, clearly with big strokes and good value seperation.
i think the second one has a more interesting atmosphere. maybe there are missing some dramatic clouds and some big plants growing behind the rocks. see ya on weekend ;)

[Maui69]

hey guys cool stuff going! sorry for such a late reply and the slow progress koshime, I have blocked in the colours more fully and i was following the perspective grid i drew for myself.. though i still think it doesnt look right, and are my choice for the colours weird? as in the bits in the shade, i know the grass is ok but the buildings look funny..http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/maui6969/shangri-la3-1.jpg

[koshime]

If you consider where all your perspective lines converge,
that is where your horizon line lies.

So actually, using your perspective grid the horizon is REAlly very very high up in comparison than now

[Kaidonni]

I'm waiting for my graphics tablet to reach me now...so, soon enough (better sooner than later), I will be able to join in.

Just a bit confused by certain concepts, such as the value study concept...this is all new to me, since as I haven't done anything like this before.

[koshime]

how do you mean?

[Kaidonni]

I understand the idea that we'd be, in a value study, thinking about perspective, atmospheric presence and the positions of the different elements in the distance, and that grey scale is used (20%-100%? Or was it 80%?).

Just...a bit confusing on what we exactly do in the value study. Or unsure, even. Such as, what would lighter shades represent? And so on...

I've looked through this thread, but I'd like to hear it again, just to clear anything up I might not understand...I'm nervous, you see. I don't want to get a step totally wrong.

Thanks

[koshime]

Alright - here is a simple step by step process from value to colour to lighting that can be used week after week after week till everyone is really great.

Kinda like a dance shuffle, its applicable to painting as well

http://www.medievalfx.com/ESG/ESG-tutorial-F.jpg

[roggeroo]

hi kaidonni,
i use the value study so i can see the areas which will be dark (shadow) and light (light source)
it's also alot easier to change any aspects of the image, composition etc
don't know if that helps, good luck with your work :)

[Kaidonni]

Thanks. I'm sure I'll get there eventually. Now all there is to do is wait for that tablet. :)

Still a bit confused, but it's because I've never done it before and I'm just nervous. This workshop really catches my eye because of the creativity involved. I often refer to animation (and the various processes involved in making an animated film) as a thing of beauty, and the work in this thread really catches that essence.

[Alabaster]

Joining the fray! ;) I go ape for environments, and this'll help me get better at perspectives and architecture in general!

Rune, you are hilarious dude, I love reading your stuff in this thread. ;)

Awesome thread, now it's time to get some thumbs going!

[koshime]

We've reached past the halfway point and will be starting the next theme in two weeks.

If there are any particular topics/or aspects of Enviroment, Transport or Industrial design you would like to improve/practise on. Drop a line ere, and we can collectively chose a new theme.

Of course, if there is no resultant answer (then I do have some spare themes to conjure up)

The one thing I've noticed is that for some, the fundamentals of perspective (from laying out a simple gridline) can be a challenge. Perhaps it is something as a group we should adress.

For example, with each theme we search 3-4 reference images and try to lay out the perspective lines in each image. Using this, we subsequently make our value studies/paints.

[Alabaster]

You guys research and layout perspective now, or is that something you think we should do?

[koshime]

With regard to conceptualization

Its all about how comfortable/good your methodology is

1/ Use of reference is a useful tool. You can choose to use/not use it. Ultimately, it will help improve how realistic and expand your understanding of how your surroundings should look like, once that is obtain, painting from your head utilizes that database of knowledge of your studies from reference and your surrounding. Thats how the pros get so good

2/ Composition and perspective. Another pro secret. Because of the ease of drawing perspective grids, it is always useful to check your perspective constantly at any one time.
Even the most beautiful rendered painting is meaningless if your perspective is not on because it will become uncorrectable and appear "wrong"