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alvin-cgi
11-23-2006, 09:41 AM
Hmmm… its scary but would like to try… :twisted:



I am thinking assembly a PC myself, so anyone have any good “assembly PC yourself” sites can point me to would be much appreciated.



My new pc mb is P5B deluxe, core 2 CPU, 550w psu, Silverstone desktop HTPC case, 2 GB ram XP32(May up to 4, XP64), 7600GT!

Thanks:)

RPG2006
11-23-2006, 11:46 AM
Had a couple of great links will try and dig them out.

Just off the top of my head for starters.

Tools needed:

1. Screwdrivers
2. Wratchet Set
3. Knife
4. Zip ties
5. Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste (for your cpu/heatsink)

Before even starting your build, I would go online to the manufaturer of your memory, and find out recommended bios settings. You may well find that on the asus forum. Print these out. Auto settings don't always work.

There were some great links on this forum about 6 months ago, but can't find diddly squat. One I think was posted in a thread about a dual opteron build. Did a google aswell, and what a load of crap to sift through. Hopefully someone here will have a link to a picture by picture tutorial.

It's not difficult, but you could proably do with printing out a guide prior to starting. Will see what I can dig up.

RPG

newman
11-23-2006, 02:35 PM
Just a few pointers, off the top of my head:
- Before touching any electronic components, touch something metal first, to disharge any static electricity that might have built up on you.
- Before installing your motherboard inside the case, install your CPU, CPU cooler (with thermal paste), and RAM onto the board. It will be much easier that way. Do not install any cards, graphic or otherwise, just yet.
- When installing the PSU in the case, plan your cable layout ahead. Take this into account when planning the locations of your other components.
- Think about your airflow. Remember basic physics - hot air goes up... so you want to have your intake fan(s) as low as possible (they suck in cold air, which, as it flows over your components, heats up and goes up), and your outtake fan(s) high. Ideally, one should be at the top side of the case. Also, make sure your components and cables don't block the airflow.
- Avoid stacking components that generate heat too close to anything - you want that heat to dissipate and get out of the case as fast as possible, that means the air flowing over the heating components should not have many obstacles in its path.
- For IDE cables (possibly used for CD/DVD drives), consider getting round ones, they don't interrupt the airflow as much as standard ones
- good luck!

alvin-cgi
11-23-2006, 09:10 PM
Thanks nighttrain, RPG2006:)

Really really appreacited yours inputs, thanks!!:thumbsup:

I have a quick look last nite at all these components, seem not that hard to put into case, but only setting will really test my “skill”, like bois, memory etc I have totally non clue at all… thought I should go through the mb user guide page by page this weekend!

I have done some google last nite but not much luck at all, I am looking something like step by step with photos illustrated tutorial so if you guys come across any of them, pls drop here the site address.

One question I have is the graphic card, any big difference with 7600GT to 7900GT/7950GT, I mean the cost is about 2x more by getting 7900GT/7950GT, worth it??

andytw
11-24-2006, 08:23 PM
This guide by Corsair (http://tools.corsairmemory.com/systembuild/report.aspx?report_id=12472) was helpful when I "took the plunge" and built a system a few months ago.

alvin-cgi
11-26-2006, 04:17 AM
This guide by Corsair (http://tools.corsairmemory.com/systembuild/report.aspx?report_id=12472) was helpful when I "took the plunge" and built a system a few months ago.

Thanks my friend! That is what I am looking for!:scream:

RPG2006
11-26-2006, 05:53 AM
That was one of the guides I was on about. Nice one. Note on the arctic silver. You'll want to follow this guide

http://www.arcticsilver.com/ins_route_step2intelas5.html

Click bottom right.

Under the heatspreader the chip is a different shape on your chip to that of the AMD in the tutorial. Therefore you'll want to apply a very small line running up the middle of the chip. The guide will show you.

It's important to just put a little on. Looking at that corsair guide I think the blob he's applying is too much. The point of the paste as far as I understand is to just fill in imperfections in the surface of the heatspreader and heatsink so you have a perfect contact.

I built a similar system with an asus PW5 DH the other day, am back on my abit now though. There was an interesting guide on preparing your north bridge and south bridge chips as well. These can get very hot and the paste that asus install them with is crap. The covers with nice little asus logos on, also just hinder them. Interesting read with pictures. (Note not referring to Part II vMCH mod). Just to add your board's layout is v.similar.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106563

I followed that guide myself, and also stuck a fan on top of the northbridge(That's about as advanced as my modding gets), which seemed to keep the temps down nicely. Worth a look at that link anyway:)

http://www.pixel-shack.com/Spirit.jpg

Good luck

RPG

cooperunionstud
11-26-2006, 07:11 AM
goto tomshardware and read their recent article on building pcs. Make sure you get quality components. getting the right component will save you alot of headache.

newman
11-27-2006, 07:10 AM
One question I have is the graphic card, any big difference with 7600GT to 7900GT/7950GT, I mean the cost is about 2x more by getting 7900GT/7950GT, worth it??


If you mean to play any games, definitely worth it. On the other hand, if you just want to work (3D or 2D, whatever) then it's not worth it. The difference between these cards is mostly only noticeable in games.

alvin-cgi
11-27-2006, 08:18 PM
RPG2006, thanks for the info, helpful!:)
cooperunionstud, thank you.:)
nighttrain. Thanks... I already bought 7900GT:)

alvin-cgi
11-27-2006, 08:34 PM
Hello all,
Thanks for all your helps.

I having another question(problem), the case come with card reader, and have five connectors(pictured), but I only found one xtra 1394 and one xtra USB which I can use for it... how do I connect all of them? Anything like 1394/USB splitter/expansion card for internal mb?
And if you see the picture, I don't understand want are these "VCC, USB1 -, USB1+, GND and ground" stand for and how to connect them:sad:

RPG2006
11-28-2006, 04:26 AM
Alvin,

You should check the motherboard manual. 1394 I believe are firewire connections. know very little about them I'm afraid.

The other two are usb. I'm presuming all these cables are coming from your case somewhere, maybe to some ports on the front or top of your case?

As I say I can't really comment on firewire, as I never bother. As for usb though. First off do have a look for these in your manual. If you look at the attached photo of you motherboard, you will see two little blue ports right at the far left in the middle.

Bottom middle as it's mounted in the case. These are where you should plugin your usb/ground cables. Check the manual to see whether vcc is on the left or right so that you know which way to plug these in .i.e. labels facing down or facing up. Hope that helps.

Just as an edit: I know with my P5W DH, it came with some little baggies, with various adapters. There was a little white adapter with pins, which you plugged your case's power button cable, reset, harddrive light and power light into. Pretty useful.

There were also some adapters for your usb. You would plug you your two usb cables into one of these, and then that in turn into one of the blue sockets. The reason for having these is that you can easily plug the cables into them outside of the case. It's then alot easier to plug them into the motherboard once they are in the adpaters. Less fiddly anyway:)
http://www.asus.com/999/images/products/1295/1295_l.jpg

RPG

alvin-cgi
11-28-2006, 07:21 AM
Hi RPG2006, thank you very much for help.:)

You should check the motherboard manual. 1394 I believe are firewire connections. know very little about them I'm afraid.
Yes, 1394 is firewire, but the mo only have one internal 1394 connection, I have 2 from case card reader, means I can only use part of the card reader functions?

The other two are usb. I'm presuming all these cables are coming from your case somewhere, maybe to some ports on the front or top of your case?
Yes, all these five cables are from case(24 in 1 card reader), actually is six cable, I plug one into HD audio.

As I say I can't really comment on firewire, as I never bother. As for usb though. First off do have a look for these in your manual. If you look at the attached photo of you motherboard, you will see two little blue ports right at the far left in the middle.
Yes, theose two blue ports are USB connections, I used one connected to back of case, then I have 2 USB cables from card reader, but only one port left...

Bottom middle as it's mounted in the case. These are where you should plugin your usb/ground cables. Check the manual to see whether vcc is on the left or right so that you know which way to plug these in .i.e. labels facing down or facing up. Hope that helps.
Sorry, don't really understand...

Just as an edit: I know with my P5W DH, it came with some little baggies, with various adapters. There was a little white adapter with pins, which you plugged your case's power button cable, reset, harddrive light and power light into. Pretty useful.
Yes, I got those white adapter plugged and its is useful.

There were also some adapters for your usb. You would plug you your two usb cables into one of these, and then that in turn into one of the blue sockets. The reason for having these is that you can easily plug the cables into them outside of the case. It's then alot easier to plug them into the motherboard once they are in the adpaters. Less fiddly anyway:)
Yup, I found two adapters(blue and red), blue is for USB, I plugged two usb into it turn into blue socket(I hope I have done it right...) red is 1394 adapter, again two 1394 cables from card reader, only have one 1394 internal connecter xtra, means card reader only partly working. What do you mean "The reason for having these is that you can easily plug the cables into them outside of the case.", These are all 7pins, how do you plug into outside of the case??
Thank you very much, my friend.:)

RPG2006
11-28-2006, 08:14 AM
how do you plug into outside of the case??

You've got it anyway. I just meant you can connect the cables into the adapters, with your hands outside of the case. So it's easier to see what you are doing and less fiddly. maybe a daft comment.

Regards USB VCC etc. Just checking my manual. Mine looks a bit like this for port USB 56

[usb +5v] - [usb_p6-] - [usb_p6+] - [GND] - [NC]
[usb +5v] - [usb_p6-] - [usb_p6+] - [GND]

That's actually thrown me a bit, but I think usb +5v is VCC

Therefore forgetting the adapter for a second your cables would go in upside down, labels facing down with GND on the right. I'm looking at your attached pic.

I'm just going to check my board, but that seems correct to me.

Anyway seems you're almost there. Regards first boot, I would suggest that you only have one stick of ram in, when you boot.

What ram do you have anyway?

Cheers

RPG

lots
11-28-2006, 01:51 PM
Be careful when installing front USB ports that do not come in a predefined plug. If you connect the USB in the wrong way, you risk frying the USB controller and any devices you plug into that port.

What you should look at in order to avoid this problem is the motherboard manual. It should tell you the pin layout for your USB plugs. From your picture, it looks like the USB is blocked off into two chunks, and two small ground lines. This is pretty handy since its near impossible to plug in single pin plugs when the motherboard is installed inside the case :)

Look at your manual's diagram for your USB port on the motherboard, and insert your plugs accordingly. The manual may label these differently, but it should be possible to figure out which one means what. Also, the USB plug on most motherboards actually provides connectivity to two USB ports.

Also another thing to keep an eye out for is the wire that comes from the case. Sometimes case builders will provide several styles of plugs for one device. You need to only use one of these. When a case builder provides multiple styles of plugs, they are generally chained together on the same line. Pick the one that best suits your needs and ignore the rest.

Can you maybe take a picture of all the wires that come from the case? You should also take a look at the case manual to see exactly which ones need to be plugged in to provide the card reader's functionality. I assume the card reader has multiple USB Firewire and card slots attached. My guess would be that the card reader itself is connected to the motherboard via USB or Firewire (though my bet is on USB). Which means you will want to plug that cable in to ensure you have the card reader active, at least. You may also want to rethink the use of that rear USB port if you want the front stuff to all work. Just a thought.

alvin-cgi
11-28-2006, 08:37 PM
Thanks RPG2006

I am using 2 GB of Hynix ram, may I know why you suggested only have one stick of ram in when boot.:)

So far I am able to attached most of the connectors(usb and 1394), only one 1394 has no port for it, I have plugged two USB(a and b) into a blue adapter(provided from Asus mo) to become one usb, I hope I am doing right, dont want to frying the usb devices...(see pictured).:D

Regards USB VCC etc. Just checking my manual, can't find anything about it?:shrug:

Cheers

Alvin

alvin-cgi
11-28-2006, 09:52 PM
Hi lots,
Thanks:)

Be careful when installing front USB ports that do not come in a predefined plug. If you connect the USB in the wrong way, you risk frying the USB controller and any devices you plug into that port.

What you should look at in order to avoid this problem is the motherboard manual. It should tell you the pin layout for your USB plugs. From your picture, it looks like the USB is blocked off into two chunks, and two small ground lines. This is pretty handy since its near impossible to plug in single pin plugs when the motherboard is installed inside the case :)
Yes you are right the USB is blocked off into two chunks, and two small ground lines.(picture from early post) The motherboard provided 2 adapters, one for 1394 and one for *USB, so I can plug two usb into one provided adapter *USB(picture from previous post) than plugged into mo USB port... hopes I am not frying anything...

Look at your manual's diagram for your USB port on the motherboard, and insert your plugs accordingly. The manual may label these differently, but it should be possible to figure out which one means what. Also, the USB plug on most motherboards actually provides connectivity to two USB ports.
I see, I think you are right.:)

Also another thing to keep an eye out for is the wire that comes from the case. Sometimes case builders will provide several styles of plugs for one device. You need to only use one of these. When a case builder provides multiple styles of plugs, they are generally chained together on the same line. Pick the one that best suits your needs and ignore the rest.
I hopes so, but as far I as I can tell, the plugs are not chained together on the same line(I may be wrong), I did opened and see inside the card reader before(stupid me, forgot to take any picture!) it has six plugs from "six devices", so whether its all inter-connected or not that I don't know, but I wish I am wrong, because it should work like you said they are generally chained together on the same line,will see what happen later...

Can you maybe take a picture of all the wires that come from the case? You should also take a look at the case manual to see exactly which ones need to be plugged in to provide the card reader's functionality. I assume the card reader has multiple USB Firewire and card slots attached. My guess would be that the card reader itself is connected to the motherboard via USB or Firewire (though my bet is on USB). Which means you will want to plug that cable in to ensure you have the card reader active, at least. You may also want to rethink the use of that rear USB port if you want the front stuff to all work. Just a thought.
The case has 2 sets of wires, one is for HD LED, reset switch etc, which I have already found the connector on mo, handy!:)
The second set, which is one I have problem now, six plugs, one is HD audio/AC97, two 1394, one USB(9pin), two usb(blocked off into two chunks, and two small ground lines.).
The motherboard provided one HD audio port(done!), two USB ports(got it!), one 1394 port, but have two 1394 from case...
The rare already have four USB build in and the case manual is useless, nothing about connecting card reader instruction!

Thanks again.:bounce:

alvin-cgi
11-28-2006, 09:59 PM
hi, by the way, the motherboard has provided one optional fan:

"Install the optional fan only if you are using a passive cooler or a water cooler.
Installing the option fan with an active CPU cooler will interfere with the airflow and destabilize the system."

What does it means... passive cooler and an active CPU cooler??

Thanks

RPG2006
11-29-2006, 04:14 AM
That optional aircooler is mounted on the heatsink(Copper grill like thing) to the left of the cpu as it's mounted in the case. It's the one with the pipes coming out of it.

If you are using aircooling i.e. a heatsink with a fan mounted to your cpu, in theory you shouldn't need this. There will be airflow passing over the surrounding areas of the cpu, including the heatsink pipe thingy to the left, and it will be working effectively.

If you are using water cooling, then chances are you just have a waterblock mounted to your cpu with no fan. Therefore less airflow going over areas around the cpu. Hence the optional fan.

Don't know if that makes anymore sense. I'd say either way, if you can fit it, then it won't hurt. Basically the more airflow you have going through your case the better.

It will be a good idea, once up and running to install asus probe. That's a temperature monitoring program, included on your asus disk, under utitilites.

I'd also highly recommend downloading this piece of software http://www.thecoolest.zerobrains.com/CoreTemp/

It measures the temperature of each core of your cpu.

Both of these albiet not 100% accurate will give you a good idea whether the cooling is adequate in your system. Once you do get up and running I would be interested to see what these two applications are reading. Don't even consider overclocking until you've checked these readings.

Lastly regards memory. As I mentioned before, chances are your motherboard will pick an automatic setting for your ram, and chances are these settings will be wrong. With one stick of ram in your machine, you have a much better chance of being able to boot up your kit, if these settings are off. As soon as you boot up your kit, you will want to hit the DEL key, and go into the bios to manually configure these.

What's the actual code of this ram? What's printed on the labels? Is it 2x1gb or 4x512mb?

You may want to go here and request the bios settings for your ram with the asus motherboard.

http://www.hynix.com/eng/02_products/08_technical/02_06_00.jsp

Cheers

RPG

lots
11-29-2006, 04:38 AM
Passive cooling means you only have a heatsink. Active cooling relies on heatsinks with some sort of fan attached. (generally)

alvin-cgi
11-29-2006, 05:14 AM
Thanks RPG2006,:)
I am using 2x1gb ram, I am getting two more tomorrow, total of 4GB! I will check there site and see anything for bois, thanks for the links.
re optional fan, I think I will install it later, thanks for the explaination.

Thanks lots, appreciated.:)


The machine now is up and running(without os), I have checked the CPU temperature is about 47-48 degree, it this normal? Mo is 29 degree. there are alot of setting inside bois, I think I need to spend some time on bois setting. so far machine runs fine, I will leave it on till next day and see it is still alive!!:D

You guys are just wonderful, I learnt so much from past few day, thanks BIG!!:thumbsup:

alvin-cgi
11-29-2006, 05:51 AM
Just checked CPU temperature, now is 58 degree... man, it this normal?!:shrug:
Mo also raised to 32 degree, looks fine!!:shrug:

lots
11-29-2006, 05:53 AM
Thats not really normal. Are you doing anything in particular?

I'd expect the CPU temperature to hover around the 35 C mark (at idle).

Make sure the CPU fan is plugged in and spinning.

RPG2006
11-29-2006, 06:16 AM
Agree with lots, too hot. Not dangerous hot yet, but still too hot. If this is the temp and your cpu fan is spinning then you may well need to take of the heatsing/fan and re-apply. You did follow the instructions carefully for applying the arctic silver on to you cpu? Just another thought/guess. On the bottom of the heatsink, the shiney copper like surface, was there a thin plastic covering? On my waterblock there was a thin plastic covering, which is there to protect it. You peel this off, before mounting it onto your cpu.

It could be that your heatsink just isn't mounted correctly and therefore isn't making proper contact with the top surface of your cpu. Note it should be firmly mounted, not crazy tight. I would check through the instructions that came with your cooling fan/heatsink again.

I'm just guessing here Alvin, but as Lots said, you should be looking at around the 35 mark.

The good news is that your motherboard temperature is fine.

Cheers

RPG

newman
11-29-2006, 12:20 PM
Are you using a stock or some aftermarket CPU cooler? And those temperatures, are those under idle conditions or under full load? All these factors may have relevance here..
I'd rule out the possibility of the heatsink not being installed correctly - if it wasn't, your CPU would most likely be dead by now. So, maybe the fan isn't operating at enough RPMs..
check up on RPMs of your CPU fan, and check whether or not it's plugged in correctly on your MB. And, if you'll be removing the cooler for whatever reason, clean up the remains of the thermal paste on your CPU, and apply it again - you might even consider a better one then supplied with the CPU (arctic silver is probably the best choice). Also, do you have any system fans installed in your case? If so, did you place them well and did you check which way they're turned? (most fans have a small arrow on their casing pointing in which way the air will blow when the fan is turned on - if you made a mistake here it would explain why your temps rise so high.)
At any rate, avoid having the system on for extended periods of time before you resolve this issue.

RPG2006
11-29-2006, 12:38 PM
And those temperatures, are those under idle conditions or under full load? All these factors may have relevance here..

He said that it was up and running without OS, so I would presume idle, and the readings are in bios.

Also, do you have any system fans installed in your case? If so, did you place them well and did you check which way they're turned?

Nighttrain, I'm no expert. Still getting to grips with this stuff myself, but going by his motherboard reading, you would presume maybe that the system fans are okay. I'd still personally try and re-apply the cpu heatsink, and as you suggest use arctic silver 5:)

RPG

lots
11-29-2006, 01:04 PM
heh... If that sticky seal thing on the bottom of the heatsink was never removed, thats going to be a sticky mess, plus, you would have smelt that...

Other common mistakes when installing a heatsink are applying too much thermal greese, mounting the heatsink in the wrong direction, if the fan is a separate part, mounting it upside down, etc.

These mistakes should produce a heatsink that cools to a degree, but it is not an ideal situation. With artic silver, you only need about a rice grain sized portion between the heatsink and CPU. More than that, and it will likely turn into an insulator, as AS is not as effective as CPU to Heatsink contact. AS is just there to fill in the little air bubbles between the two surfaces, as neither is perfectly flat.

Also, if the heatsink was not installed properly, modern CPUs such as Core 2 Duo, have a built in shut off if the temperature rises too quickly and gets too high. So damage should be prevented.

newman
11-29-2006, 01:22 PM
Well, I could be wrong, but if this was a bet, my money would still be on some issue with the CPU fan... I agree that, judging by his motherboard reading, the system fans should be installed correctly - I stress 'should' as the operative word here - but in some cases, with incorrect system fans setup, it is possible to create 'air knots' (places where two opposing streams of air collide and create a knot of sorts, where air remains much longer then it should) or even almost airless pockets.
Both can create uneven and sometimes dangereous temperatures inside the case. I agree that this probably isn't the case, but it is possible, and since he's checking on his cooling setup it wouldn't hurt to check on this as well.

RPG2006
11-29-2006, 03:40 PM
That was one of the guides I was on about. Nice one. Note on the arctic silver. You'll want to follow this guide

http://www.arcticsilver.com/ins_rou...p2intelas5.html (http://www.arcticsilver.com/ins_route_step2intelas5.html)

Click bottom right.

Under the heatspreader the chip is a different shape on your chip to that of the AMD in the tutorial. Therefore you'll want to apply a very small line running up the middle of the chip. The guide will show you.

It's important to just put a little on. Looking at that corsair guide I think the blob he's applying is too much. The point of the paste as far as I understand is to just fill in imperfections in the surface of the heatspreader and heatsink so you have a perfect contact.

Sort of said that Lots:) It all spreads out eventually.

Yep maybe silly idea about the seal.

RPG

alvin-cgi
11-29-2006, 09:32 PM
Agree with lots, too hot. Not dangerous hot yet, but still too hot. If this is the temp and your cpu fan is spinning then you may well need to take of the heatsing/fan and re-apply. You did follow the instructions carefully for applying the arctic silver on to you cpu?
Yup, I have follow the instruction step by step, every bits as well as arctic silver 5 on cpu.(pictured) even AS5 I have follow there instructions.

Just another thought/guess. On the bottom of the heatsink, the shiney copper like surface, was there a thin plastic covering? On my waterblock there was a thin plastic covering, which is there to protect it. You peel this off, before mounting it onto your cpu.
There isn't any plastic covering the heatsink bottom, I have removed the original thermal pad, so I pretty sure there wasn't any plastic cover.

It could be that your heatsink just isn't mounted correctly and therefore isn't making proper contact with the top surface of your cpu. Note it should be firmly mounted, not crazy tight. I would check through the instructions that came with your cooling fan/heatsink again.
That could be the possibility so far I can think of even though I have follows the instruction carefully. I think I have to re-mount it again.


I'm just guessing here Alvin, but as Lots said, you should be looking at around the 35 mark.

The good news is that your motherboard temperature is fine.
Yes, at least.

PS red marked on picture are the fans installed(airflow directions).

Thanks again:)

alvin-cgi
11-29-2006, 09:42 PM
heh... If that sticky seal thing on the bottom of the heatsink was never removed, thats going to be a sticky mess, plus, you would have smelt that... Removed before I attached on cpu, and apply AS5 on it(pictured on previous post).:)

Other common mistakes when installing a heatsink are applying too much thermal greese, mounting the heatsink in the wrong direction, if the fan is a separate part, mounting it upside down, etc.
I have follows the instructions from AS5 and only apply one thin line on cpu top (pictured on previous post).

These mistakes should produce a heatsink that cools to a degree, but it is not an ideal situation. With artic silver, you only need about a rice grain sized portion between the heatsink and CPU. More than that, and it will likely turn into an insulator, as AS is not as effective as CPU to Heatsink contact. AS is just there to fill in the little air bubbles between the two surfaces, as neither is perfectly flat.

Also, if the heatsink was not installed properly, modern CPUs such as Core 2 Duo, have a built in shut off if the temperature rises too quickly and gets too high. So damage should be prevented.
Glad to know that...:D otherwise I have already frying the cpu now...

Here is the Hardware monitor info I took from screen, can you spot anything which need to be done?

Thanks:)

RPG2006
11-29-2006, 09:49 PM
Alvin,

Don't know much about aircooling, but that seems a bit slow to me. I'd try disabling cpu Qfan, and see if that makes any difference. Certainly your cpu vcore is at default.

Just a thought for now.

RPG

RPG2006
11-29-2006, 10:10 PM
Right now I'm confused. What way up is that case?

If we are looking at it upside down, with cpu at the top, then the fan in the case just above the cpu, or below in the picture, should be blowing the other way i.e. blowing heat out of the case.

If it is the actual way we are looking at it with the motherboard upside down, then that's interesting. I'm not sure these boards are setup to work that way, specifically with regards the heatpipes. With the sides off though, can't see it making much difference at the mo.

Would still say that's too much ac5 applied to the cpu there. I'd use about half of that personally.

There do seem to be people overclocking these processors nicely on stock heatsinks, but I would be tempted to spend a little money on an alternative. not sure what to recommend though.

Anyone else got any ideas?

Fun'n'games.

RPG

alvin-cgi
11-29-2006, 11:47 PM
Right now I'm confused. What way up is that case?

Sorry for bad quality images, this is silverstone desktop case(http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-lc17.htm (http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-lc17.htm))


If we are looking at it upside down, with cpu at the top, then the fan in the case just above the cpu, or below in the picture, should be blowing the other way i.e. blowing heat out of the case.
Mo is on bottom, and everthing on top of it.:)

If it is the actual way we are looking at it with the motherboard upside down, then that's interesting. I'm not sure these boards are setup to work that way, specifically with regards the heatpipes. With the sides off though, can't see it making much difference at the mo.

Would still say that's too much ac5 applied to the cpu there. I'd use about half of that personally.
I will try to re-mount it again and apply ac5 again...:sad:

There do seem to be people overclocking these processors nicely on stock heatsinks, but I would be tempted to spend a little money on an alternative. not sure what to recommend though.
Well, I may have to think of that... $$:sad:

Thanks.:)

alvin-cgi
11-29-2006, 11:56 PM
Are you using a stock or some aftermarket CPU cooler? And those temperatures, are those under idle conditions or under full load? All these factors may have relevance here..
I'd rule out the possibility of the heatsink not being installed correctly - if it wasn't, your CPU would most likely be dead by now. So, maybe the fan isn't operating at enough RPMs..
check up on RPMs of your CPU fan, and check whether or not it's plugged in correctly on your MB. And, if you'll be removing the cooler for whatever reason, clean up the remains of the thermal paste on your CPU, and apply it again - you might even consider a better one then supplied with the CPU (arctic silver is probably the best choice). Also, do you have any system fans installed in your case? If so, did you place them well and did you check which way they're turned? (most fans have a small arrow on their casing pointing in which way the air will blow when the fan is turned on - if you made a mistake here it would explain why your temps rise so high.)
At any rate, avoid having the system on for extended periods of time before you resolve this issue.

I am using stock heatsink.
Yup, I am also suspect the fans causing the heat, I have one fan blow air straight to cpu, this could be the reason, I will try to reverse the fan and make to suck the air away instead of blow the air to cpu heatsink.

Thanks :)

alvin-cgi
11-30-2006, 12:00 AM
[QUOTE=nighttrain]but in some cases, with incorrect system fans setup, it is possible to create 'air knots' (places where two opposing streams of air collide and create a knot of sorts, where air remains much longer then it should) or even almost airless pockets.
QUOTE]
This is waht I am suspecting now, but I have disable the fan next to cpu and the heat still remind at 48 degree and above... I will reverse the fan direction and see.

Thanks:)

alvin-cgi
11-30-2006, 01:31 AM
Just an upates...

I have one fan(next to cpu) reversed, now is sucking the air out of case, re-attached heatsink, re-apply AS5, follow the instruction carfully! The temperature seem to stay around 48-49 degree, its better than 58 degree!:rolleyes: Don't know what else can be done now...

When I first placing the fans, I was referring to here:
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=3&artpage=1499&articID=377
same case as mine, and lower page has a graph for "best" fans placement locations!?
So I guess it isn't work out for C2C cpu?!

Well, I have XP64 installed last night, will install all the utilities and see any more control I can play around with and keep you guys updates.

Cheers and thanks:)

Alvin

ps, does the room temperature can cause the heat raise??

alvin-cgi
11-30-2006, 05:50 AM
Just an(other) updates...

So far the temperture has down to 39-40 degree!:scream: I think my room temperture also has something to do with it! Its summer here!:)

Now I have others problems...
1. when I install Asus drivers and utilities, all the onboard usb are dead!! Until I roll back to old drivers then usb start working again?
2. The Audio isn't working, even its said is working properly under Sounds and Audios Devices Properties, but have no sound at all?:sad:

So perhaps someone can help me with the Audio devices...

Thanks
Alvin

RPG2006
11-30-2006, 07:05 AM
If that fan by the cpu is at the bottom of the case, then in fact it was blowing in the right direction i.e. up. If you have a fan at the top, known as a blowhole then that blows heat out of the case. Heat rises etc.

Albeit there do seem to be people overclocking nicely on stock heatsinks, they are notoriously crap. Buying another one, and I'll look into what's recommended, isn't going to break the bank. It would also eliminate this as the cause.

Yes ambient temperature has a big impact, and that goes for water cooling as well. Maybe have a fan directed at your computer.

Something else I thought about. It's a possibilty that you are just getting an innaccurate reading from the motherboard sensors. Sometimes these readings can be well off. That's why in the link you posted they are using temperature probes to give the readings. A bios update may well fix this issue. Would look into it first though.

Here's a link to Asus P5B-Deluxe; Problems & Fixes (warning 2000 replies in this thread so a lot to sift through if you can be bothered)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112648

Wouldn't hurt to register and put a post up there. You may well get some advice from someone who's familiar with this issue.

Regards sound, again maybe a post on there or the asus forum will help. I disable any onboard sound in the bios on my system as I use a separate sound card.

You have installed all the stuff that came on the Asus disk? Certainly install asus probe.

Alvin download this app. It's called orthos and tests stability of your system http://sp2004.fre3.com/beta/beta2.htm. more importantly right now, it will fully load/work your machine, so we can see what temps the cpu will rise to under stress. You can have asus probe open at the same time, but I would also recommend having the other app, that I posted a link for open Coretemp.

If in coretemp, the temperatures rise to above 65c or 60ish in asus probe, then stop orthos, and time to look at the cooling again. Note don't even consider overclocking at this point would be my recommendation.

Right enough waffling. Glad it seems to be coming together and good luck.

RPG

newman
11-30-2006, 08:56 AM
I am using stock heatsink.
Yup, I am also suspect the fans causing the heat, I have one fan blow air straight to cpu, this could be the reason, I will try to reverse the fan and make to suck the air away instead of blow the air to cpu heatsink.

Thanks :)

Ok.. here's how CPU cooling works. You have your heatsink, which is what really takes the heat away from the CPU. To make this process faster and more efficient, a fan is added to assist in rapid dissipation of heat. Now, contrary to popular belief, the CPU fan does not actually blow air away from the CPU - it blows it towards it. This is called active heat sink cooling, and the reason for the fan to blow air at the CPU's (or, rather, the heatsink's) direction is so it can assist the heatsink in exchanging air with the surrounding area. So, having another system fan blowing cold air at it should only help, not create an air knot - from what you told us so far, I no longer think there's a problem there.

Whatever you do, do not reverse that fan! Doing so will further deteriorate your cooling conditions - as your CPU fan will now have even less air to work with due to that system fan sucking it out - basically your CPU and system fans will be working against each other.

Those RPMs of the fan can be as low when the CPU temp is low, but at these temps your motherboard should automatically increase the RPMs - something may be wrong here. Check again whether or not your CPU fan is connected properly (although I don't see how this could be connected wrong.. well, checking won't hurt :)) and poke around the BIOS for any CPU fan control options.

RPG2006
11-30-2006, 09:57 AM
Ok.. here's how CPU cooling works. You have your heatsink, which is what really takes the heat away from the CPU. To make this process faster and more efficient, a fan is added to assist in rapid dissipation of heat. Now, contrary to popular belief, the CPU fan does not actually blow air away from the CPU - it blows it towards it. This is called active heat sink cooling, and the reason for the fan to blow air at the CPU's (or, rather, the heatsink's) direction is so it can assist the heatsink in exchanging air with the surrounding area. So, having another system fan blowing cold air at it should only help, not create an air knot - from what you told us so far, I no longer think there's a problem there.

Didn't realise that. I thought they did blow away, but what you say makes perfect sense. I think. So bascially because one side is cooler due to the fan blowing on it, the heat rushes towards that faster. Is that it?

RPG

lots
11-30-2006, 01:15 PM
nighttrain described excatly what i meant by CPU fan upside down ;) The fan must blow toward the heatsink for the most effective cooling.

Alvin: What case do you have? When you set up your fans you want to be sure you configure them in the intended direction of the case's design. Since you appear to have a desktop case rather than a tower, your airflow layout differs somewhat to whats been talked about here. My best advice would be to follow the case's intended design.

48C is not a bad temperature, its a bit on the warm side for idle, but this can be helped by making sure your airflow is configured right. It also helps to know your ambient room temperature. After all, if your house is fairly warm, this will increase your computer's temperature as well. So after taking into account the environment temperatures, this 48C may be fairly accurate.

It would also be worth while to take a look around and see what temperature varience your motherboard has when reporting the temperature. There are usually 2 or 3 temperature diodes on a CPU. BIOS can read any one of them (or all of them and take the average) for what it reports on the screen. These temperatures can differ widely from diode to diode, plus BIOS does not always report temperatures accurately. For example, sometimes a motherboard BIOS will report a temperature 5C higher than it really is, etc. So google around a bit and see if you can find any information along this vein.

newman
11-30-2006, 02:19 PM
Didn't realise that. I thought they did blow away, but what you say makes perfect sense. I think. So bascially because one side is cooler due to the fan blowing on it, the heat rushes towards that faster. Is that it?

RPG

Basically, the fan sucks in cold air from the ambient, and pushes it onto the heatsink, which sort of spreads it around in all directions away from the CPU (aside from the direction the air came from - if we call that direction the 'Z' axis, the hot air should mostly spread along X and Y). This way, the CPU cooler is constantly bringing cold air to the CPU, and hot air away from it. So - adding another system fan that blows cold air along the 'Z' axis will only help the cooling process. Likewise, if you reverse that fan so it sucks out air, it will impede the cooling process - the CPU fan will have less cold air to work with.

alvin-cgi
12-01-2006, 01:52 AM
If that fan by the cpu is at the bottom of the case, then in fact it was blowing in the right direction i.e. up. If you have a fan at the top, known as a blowhole then that blows heat out of the case. Heat rises etc.
The fan by the cpu is at the side not bottom, because is desktop case not tower case.

Albeit there do seem to be people overclocking nicely on stock heatsinks, they are notoriously crap. Buying another one, and I'll look into what's recommended, isn't going to break the bank. It would also eliminate this as the cause.
I also considering get a new heatsink, but so far seem tempretures are down to "normal", staying between 37-45 degree.

Yes ambient temperature has a big impact, and that goes for water cooling as well. Maybe have a fan directed at your computer.

Something else I thought about. It's a possibilty that you are just getting an innaccurate reading from the motherboard sensors. Sometimes these readings can be well off. That's why in the link you posted they are using temperature probes to give the readings. A bios update may well fix this issue. Would look into it first though.
I am now reading Asus Probe II, so should be accurate I hopes!

Here's a link to Asus P5B-Deluxe; Problems & Fixes (warning 2000 replies in this thread so a lot to sift through if you can be bothered)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112648

Wouldn't hurt to register and put a post up there. You may well get some advice from someone who's familiar with this issue.
Thanks, will do.:)

Regards sound, again maybe a post on there or the asus forum will help. I disable any onboard sound in the bios on my system as I use a separate sound card.
I heard many users are complaning the onboard sound not working, particular this board(thanks Asus, took away $360 from me and gave me no audio)... so may be getting a sound card is the way to go... more$$:sad:

You have installed all the stuff that came on the Asus disk? Certainly install asus probe.
Yes.:)

Alvin download this app. It's called orthos and tests stability of your system http://sp2004.fre3.com/beta/beta2.htm. more importantly right now, it will fully load/work your machine, so we can see what temps the cpu will rise to under stress. You can have asus probe open at the same time, but I would also recommend having the other app, that I posted a link for open Coretemp.
Thanks. will do...

If in coretemp, the temperatures rise to above 65c or 60ish in asus probe, then stop orthos, and time to look at the cooling again. Note don't even consider overclocking at this point would be my recommendation.
So far the temperatures are around 40 degree, so looks like heat problem is sloved...:thumbsup:

Right enough waffling. Glad it seems to be coming together and good luck.
Thanks BIG:scream:

alvin-cgi
12-01-2006, 02:31 AM
[QUOTE=nighttrain]
Whatever you do, do not reverse that fan! Doing so will further deteriorate your cooling conditions - as your CPU fan will now have even less air to work with due to that system fan sucking it out - basically your CPU and system fans will be working against each other.

QUOTE]

I see how is fan working now:) , thanks.
Well, after I reversed the fan, the temperature seem going down alot, I mean now it saty between 35-45 degree, most of the times are under 40 degree... so I don't really know what happens before, it wroks now so I will keep it like this for now...:)

alvin-cgi
12-01-2006, 02:40 AM
nighttrain described excatly what i meant by CPU fan upside down ;) The fan must blow toward the heatsink for the most effective cooling.

Alvin: What case do you have? When you set up your fans you want to be sure you configure them in the intended direction of the case's design. Since you appear to have a desktop case rather than a tower, your airflow layout differs somewhat to whats been talked about here. My best advice would be to follow the case's intended design.

Yes, it is Silverstone LC17 desktop case not tower. Here is the case:
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-lc17.htm (http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-lc17.htm)
When I set up fans, was referring to here:
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=ge...499&articID=377 (http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=ge...499&articID=377)
They have a graph for "best" fans locations, but I think it isn't really work for me...:shrug:


48C is not a bad temperature, its a bit on the warm side for idle, but this can be helped by making sure your airflow is configured right. It also helps to know your ambient room temperature. After all, if your house is fairly warm, this will increase your computer's temperature as well. So after taking into account the environment temperatures, this 48C may be fairly accurate.

It would also be worth while to take a look around and see what temperature varience your motherboard has when reporting the temperature. There are usually 2 or 3 temperature diodes on a CPU. BIOS can read any one of them (or all of them and take the average) for what it reports on the screen. These temperatures can differ widely from diode to diode, plus BIOS does not always report temperatures accurately. For example, sometimes a motherboard BIOS will report a temperature 5C higher than it really is, etc. So google around a bit and see if you can find any information along this vein.
Now the temperatures are maintaining around 40c, so I think the fan were placing wrong direction...

Thanks
A

newman
12-01-2006, 06:53 AM
Well, glad you got things under control. This whole thing just reminded me why I dislike dekstop cases so much.. :)

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