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BUZZFX
11-10-2006, 07:41 PM
Has anyone tried Mudbox on the Mac and what do you think of it? Should I try Mudbox or Learn ZBrush which has a mac version. What application is easier to learn and do you think has a more promising future. I have tried the ZBrush Demo and man is it weird. Tons of Buttons all over the place and weird steps just for starters. Do you think Pixologic will revamp/overhaul ZBrush so it is more like Mudbox?

I've heard MB is a dream to work with but do you think ZB has more features and a more promising future?

All comments/advice would be appreciated!

cyartist
11-10-2006, 09:19 PM
I have used both Zbrush and Mudbox but I would try Silo 2 it will soon be better than both and has a great price. See link below

http://www.nevercenter.com/

BUZZFX
11-11-2006, 06:30 AM
I have used both Zbrush and Mudbox but I would try Silo 2 it will soon be better than both and has a great price. See link below

http://www.nevercenter.com/

cyartist,

Just looked at Silo's site. Can't beat the price. How will Siloo be better than Mudbox and ZBrush? Just Curious.

newellteapot
11-11-2006, 10:40 AM
Hi!

Hi heard from betatesters that Zbrush 3 is going to be amazing, although they cannot reveal anything, of course. I think that mudbox is great but Zbrush seems to be more promising.

gent_k
11-11-2006, 11:45 AM
Hi!

Hi heard from betatesters that Zbrush 3 is going to be amazing, although they cannot reveal anything, of course. I think that mudbox is great but Zbrush seems to be more promising.

Zbrush 3 eh? You have any news on Mudbox 2 then?

:rolleyes:

warpy
11-11-2006, 07:18 PM
looks like z3 and mb2 were released yesterday... :P

DorisDay
11-13-2006, 01:30 PM
How will Siloo be better than Mudbox and ZBrush? Just Curious.

Me too...:shrug:

pnoland
11-13-2006, 02:20 PM
Nevercenter didn't add displacement features to Silo 2 to compete with Zbrush or Mudbox, it's not for detailing like those programs. Also, it'd difficult to compare products as none of them are officially released yet anyway...

cyartist
11-13-2006, 04:35 PM
My comment is based on future trends not what is available now.
Note: I said "Soon" not "Now".

If you look at the development speed of Silo 2 if would be hard to argue
it will not be on par if not surpassing Mud Box and Zbrush in five years.

Zbrush is a powerful program but it's development cycle is way too slow.
Almost three years and counting for a upgrade. Not! And it is not really a
full fledge modeler (booleans anyone) and by the way no 3d camera.
And a horrid interface that repels potential customers.

Mudbox is just a sculpting program not a full fledge modeler case close.

Once Silo developers ups the polycount to 4-6 million Silo will slowly
become the preferred Model creation program. The beautiful workflow
of Silo will put it over the top.

BUZZFX
11-13-2006, 05:32 PM
Hi!

Hi heard from betatesters that Zbrush 3 is going to be amazing, although they cannot reveal anything, of course. I think that mudbox is great but Zbrush seems to be more promising.

What! ZBrush 3. I thought ZBrush 2.5 wasn't even out yet? Monica, do you use ZBrush 2?

cyartist
11-13-2006, 09:51 PM
It has been widely rumoured that Zbrush 2.5 will not ever be released instead they
are going to continue adding features and release Zbrush 3. This maybe a PR move
to help stop the frustration felt by users and by them more time for a 2007 release.

newellteapot
12-01-2006, 11:50 AM
:) no man, I would actually be happy enough to see the basic version of mudbox finally coming out!
:)
Anyway, I said 3 and not 2.5 because I am supposing that maybe if they release the new version with such a delay and full of new stuff they might just call it 3 and not 2.5!
:rolleyes:

Zbrush 3 eh? You have any news on Mudbox 2 then?

:rolleyes:

newellteapot
12-01-2006, 11:51 AM
I know, but they might as well call it 3 now!
:)
What! ZBrush 3. I thought ZBrush 2.5 wasn't even out yet? Monica, do you use ZBrush 2?

jasonio
12-01-2006, 03:15 PM
Originally, I think Zbrush was intended to be a sort-of 3d version of photoshop. But some features were noticed and focussed on - such as the highly detail brush modelling. I think Pixologic found the market for this pretty much by mistake and has focused on it ever since. I think the makers need to ditch completely the Z painting thing, the dropping meshes onto canvas and rendering still images and rebuild the program from the groundup to be more intuitive and simpler to use - focusing just on what it does best.

Mudbox is taking the opportunity to do this and running with it. Mudbox does look far simpler to use - the layering system looks brilliant - But I've yet to use it though - but I doubt you'll have to worry about pressing the wrong button and freezing your mesh onto back of the screen! It specialises just on 3d sculpting and will hopefully stay that way.

Zbrush on the other hand offers colour/texture painting/creation as well - I'm not sure if it is used for this as much as bodypaint though.

I wouldn't consider Silo for this type of modelling until it actually features it.

bobakabob
12-01-2006, 04:15 PM
The temptation with new software is to press loads of buttons at random with the expectation of creating an instant masterpiece. Zbrush encourages experimentation but diving in at the deep end with such a complex modelling texturing and rendering app is unlikely to produce great results unless you're blessed with significantly more luck than patience. It wasn't such a bad approach 10 years ago, but pro 3D software today is much more sophisticated.

Pixologic is being given far too a hard a time over its interface design. There seems to be a 'build 'em up and knock 'em down attitude brewing on these boards. As a newbie I was relieved to find Zbrush pretty intuitive after reading a tutorial or two (this followed pressing 101 buttons for no particular reason :)).

The GUI can be customised and menus are dockable to speed up workflow. Every feature has an instantly accessible help file. After a while it really does feel like sculpting and painting in 3D. The surfacing tools are liberating.

3dj
12-01-2006, 04:52 PM
Once you do some tuts of Zbrush, it will become much easier to understand the workflow and the UI. It was the first 3D app that I felt at home with using a tablet, the ui and workflow just work great with a tablet. I really like the interface now that I am used to it.

-Jim

mocaw
12-02-2006, 10:45 PM
I think the makers need to ditch completely the Z painting thing, the dropping meshes onto canvas and rendering still images and rebuild the program from the groundup to be more intuitive and simpler to use - focusing just on what it does best.



While I agree that the drop to canvas options etc. are not really well flushed out, I for one would really miss the 2.5 D abilities if they decided to ditch them. These are very useful for print work, and doing matte painting etc. If used correctly they are fast enough to work with for these uses- where other pure "3D' options would often not be.

LetterRip
12-04-2006, 12:13 AM
My comment is based on future trends not what is available now.
Note: I said "Soon" not "Now".

If you look at the development speed of Silo 2 if would be hard to argue
it will not be on par if not surpassing Mud Box and Zbrush in five years.

By that arguement, you might as well learn the sculpting tools in the Blender CVS version - since its development speed crushes everything :) Seriously though, by the end of the year/early next year Silo 2 will certainly be a worthwhile option for sculpting up to around a million polys as will Blender. If you don't need extremely high poly counts or would rather wait and see on the more expensive options, or if you are willing to wait for them to 'grow into' meeting your needs, either of those could be a good choice. Hexagon 2 has similar poly counts for the sculpting tools - however its brushes (for me anyway) give really poor results. Advantage of Silo - it is an awesome modeling tool as well. Advantage of Blender - it is completely free and is a full 3D suite including modeling, uv unwrapping, texturing, simulation, animation, etc. - also it is moving towards improved flexibility and ease of use, and is also extremely cross platform (OSX, Windows, Linux, etc.). Advantage of Hexagon 2, it also has good modeling tools including surface based modeling. It also has some paint and texturing tools.

ZBrush 2 already has quite respectable poly counts, and 2.5/3.0 could be a free upgrade to existing users - with some really exciting tools and huge poly counts coming up. Also it has great painting tools and other complementary tools for creation.

Mudbox - apparently released now - has extremely high polycounts and some really nice sculpting tools such as sculpting in layers. It is very single purpose in its focuse as a sculpting based modeling/normal map creation tool.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each in the near term, things that can change drastically in the medium to long term.

LetterRip

Imhotep397
12-07-2006, 05:28 AM
While I'm not a huge fan of ZBrush's GUI I'm still trying to conform to it. I do know that there will be an exstensive layering system incorporated into the system with the next release, but how exactly it will be visually represented does concern me a bit.

A Quick question: Does anyone know how to move the main toolbar (Where your "Tool(s)" and the scene "Lightball" is from the top left to the bottm right? I can't, for the life of me figure out how to get that thing undocked from that side, but I have seen it on the other in screenshots, so I know it can be done.

From a purely features standpoint I think ZBrush has a ton more in it's favor. Right now, MudBox has been pulled together specifically to detail pre-built models with great topology and it has enough brushes and a straight forward GUI set to do that just well enough to be of value to some people. There's no painting, by comparison has a limited brush set, no surface rigs, no skeleton rigs, and most importantly no large community or sea of learning resources. MudBox is really just getting out of the Blocks while ZBrush is seemingly getting ready to hit it's stride and incorpororating most of the same features on top of what was there already. My BIGGEST complaint with ZBrush is the fact that everything has to "Spin" to size, or position and it just never feels like I'm in control of something as rudimentary as overall size or whether something is fully upright or not. For a Maya user like me that's pretty damn frustrating, but I'm hoping that that's something that will soon become an option and not th default method of working.

BUZZFX
12-07-2006, 03:07 PM
Mac Version????

I asked Tibor over at Mudbox if a Mac version was in the works and here's the reply I received.


"For now we kept Mudbox multiplatform compatible so creating a mac version would be possible. We are considering it but at this point I don't know if this will happen."

cheers,
Tibor


Straight from the horses mouth persay, so all you mac users let's get on the bandwagon and flood them with requests for a mac version!!!

And please keep the emails friendly, I have received nothing but friendly service thus far from Tibor. Thanks!

mocaw
12-07-2006, 11:32 PM
Besides the drop to canvas issues, working with multipul objects, and camera perspective, I've found zbrush much easier to work on than I was fearing. I'd hear horror stories from friends who had tried it, and online. There seems to be one important difference though between those people an me- training. I ponied up the money for some zbrush training, and while I'm not in any way a "master" I have to say the interface is NOT one of my problems with zbrush now. So just buy that Southerland video from Kurv and sit through the whole thing and 90% of all your zbrush questions will go away. Just my personal opinion.

And on a side note- most of the issues people have with their models looking like poo has more to do with their art and general 3D experience than the program. Mudbox and Zbrush each are geared more towards this mind set IMHO. So is either one going to help you that much if you're not already an "artist" of sorts?

2.5 looks really good...I'm not really tempted to go with mudbox now that I've got a bit of a handle on zbrush AND due to the fact that it's cheaper, and does more for me.

Still, until 2.5 is out, and I can demo each how is one to say for sure? Is anyone here a beta tester for each one?

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