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Leonard
12-30-2001, 03:59 PM
Well it seems like this is really taking off.

I have been asked by a few people if we could consider taking these challenges and formalizing them on CG Channel - i.e. have a contest area with a system so that everyone can participate, with real prizes for the top voted winners.

What do you think?

rendermonkey23
12-30-2001, 04:12 PM
That would be swell. I just think if it's gonna turn into a contest we still NEED to be able to learn from each other. I mean, that's why this is getting so big, and I also like how this focuses on modeling specifically too.

We already have contests (3dluvr). If this is going to be successfull, it needs to be different.

Leonard
12-30-2001, 04:19 PM
Perhaps not a 'contest' but keeping the whole notion of a 'challenge'. You're right, the whole purpose is to be able to learn from each other.

Suggestions people?

L.

InnerVortex
12-30-2001, 04:19 PM
if it is going to be a contest im complitly out... im just here to try to learn something.. there is no way i can compete with this guys.. i like the spirit of it til now.. it would be very nice to have a page with the resume of it.. the guys who r in and that stuff..
but if it going to be a contest.. well.. is not me that will stop it.. if it is to be great let it be great

cerreto
12-30-2001, 04:29 PM
here is my suggestion !

make a chart like the folowing body , tools , clothing style , handicap/ specialty , weopon, etc take the first 2 or three sugestions for each , out of the selection you must choose at least 3 things from the list to include in your character ,

This way if you get something like nice pirate you could pass on that and just pic three other things to use on your character

After the first month let those who have the most views not votes choose the character or model for the next months! still sticking to the 3 item minumun that someone must choose

I still think that it should be strictly just modeling no textures etc as this shows a huge difrence in modeling skill and learning purposes setting it apart from other challenges/ competiton giving everyone enough time not to rush models and focus on solid modeling


btw you guys rock for creating the forum for us !

Martin-K-
12-30-2001, 04:33 PM
personally i think each challenge should be 1 long thread. ( people shouldnt complain about number of pages because that can be changed in your profile area ) and not 100 scattered threads. ( once this gets big youll notice that some people arent getting replies ) but if you have everything situated in one thread then its more like everyone is on one classroom..and everyone is giving eachother advice. this is atleast what i found from the past session experiments that were made on spiraloid.

so youd have to make it so that people couldnt start their own threads, just reply into the current challenge thread.

we can still keep it the way it is now as a challenge...and give eachother advice and all. and maybe give the person who has contribited the most/ and came up with an outstanding creation a prize. ( which would be voted for by the people who participated!? )

well, you asked for suggestions and i gave em :) keep up the good work.

Lewis Varga
12-30-2001, 05:20 PM
Edit- Just thought about what I said and realized unless the admin is gonna lock the forum and assign threads to people, individual threads wouldn't be as good as 1 thread for each challenge. Right now the challenges are scattered around the forum with other non-challenge topics, it's a bit unorganized.

For the contest idea, I don't think that would be good since we aren't competing with each other. If you keep it as a "Challenge", then when the challenge is coming to an end we could vote on someone to write a making-of article for CG Channel that would be a once a month deal.

marioucci
12-30-2001, 05:49 PM
ok.
the challenge concept must stay.
the personal threads are inevetable, otherwise you will go like this:
"hey man, i loved the wip u posted at page 2, 3 weeks ago remember?...."
so, personal threads are more organized..
wips with wireframes are essential.
we should decide the topics(props, style, weapons, etc)
we should vote for the winners.
IMHO we should choose a winner, 2 runner-ups and a honored mention.
would be great if some companies give away some prizes for the winners but not softwares or something big(or the thing will get too competitive)
maybe shirts, posters, hats, texture cds or something..
and definetely a more organized space in the forum for the challenge:)
thats my 2cents:)

Leonard
12-30-2001, 07:11 PM
Thanks guys, all good suggestions!

Looks like we have agreed that it's not a contest. It's a challenge.

Some ideas to throw around:

- Have a 'staging area' on the CG Channel main site where the challenge topic goes up and everyone has 72 hours to make suggestions/topics/criteria. After the 72 hour period, a panel decides what suggestions to keep and what to throw out. Then we lock the topic and go into challenge for the next three or four weeks.

- All WIP's stay on CG Talk so that people can all share their WIP's, comment and stay constructive.

- All final submissions go on the main 'staging area' and open for voting.

- No one big prize, but say three prizes for the top three voted.

- All three prizewinners must do a post-mortem on their work so that others can learn.

Comments, suggestions. Please feel free to throw around.

Personally, I feel that we shouldn't stick solely to modeling, but give everyone enough time to go through the entire process of modeling, texturing and rendering. We won't delve into animation (yet), unless there is critical mass of people wanting it.

What do you think?

L.

cerreto
12-30-2001, 07:41 PM
i think youve got it nailed but I really think that the modeling challenge should be strictly modleing no textures other sites have general comps where theres is fully textured etc, and i can make a 800 poly charcter that textured looks great ! but i want t osee the modeling skill not the texturing skill or covering up with a good texture thats what the challenge is about


anoter way would be to have one model or the winners model used for a texturing challeng have everyone texture the same model and see the difrence that would be cool and as far as i know no other sited does this then you could see how people tackle texturing mapping etc on the same model !

I think make them seperate challenges or just have textures posted after the challeng to show a finished work in a render etc

there are modelers, texture artist, animators each should have there own challenge showing what they do to see how each is tackled in detail lumping them together takes some away form the other but this is just my opinion !

the texture challenge was loganarts idea and i think its agoood doulution but its your forum !

good luck and thanks again

marioucci
12-30-2001, 07:52 PM
yeah!!!
i think thats the best solution:)
and then when pixar needs a texture artist they will look at the texture challenge and when they need a modeller, in the modeling challenge:)
what you guys say?

Leonard
12-30-2001, 08:04 PM
Good idea. So we should have challenges concentrating on particular skillsets? How about if we run tutorials during the challenge to help along the way?

Modeling challenge - model a character or a scene creatively.

Texturing challenge - everyone gets the same model or scene and everyone has to texture it in their own creative way.

Compositing challenge - everyone gets the same footage and cg models and its up to them to integrate cg into live action?

Thanks for all the feedback thus far. Keep the ideas and suggestions rolling! :)

L.

Lev_0
12-30-2001, 08:46 PM
I like the idea of seperate challenges for modelling, texturing and compositing, would be a huge learning resource too.

Triadis
12-30-2001, 10:17 PM
Here's something I put together that I think would be most effective as an application for organizing a challenge. A system where people can join in on a challenge and participate, adding their work and having other users comment. Also an admin section to control the current challenge and voting system.

What I have here is just the shell of the system. Most of the links don't work cause I haven't uploaded it yet. But if guys want, I can keep going and finish the code.

The main page:
http://www20.brinkster.com/triadis/index.html

And a members wip page:
http://www20.brinkster.com/triadis/entries/Triadis/c001/navigate.html

What do you think?

-Alex

marioucci
12-30-2001, 10:49 PM
i like the wip site a lot man!!
the idea of putting the wip updates by user visible is perfect!!!

Psy
12-30-2001, 10:53 PM
i'm an idiot at times, i know, but when i voted no, i meant yes, so count that vote as a yes instead of a no, k?
Admin: Changed vote from no to yes

also, i like that site design, are you gonna have a database running behind it and if so php, asp, or cf?

Leonard
12-30-2001, 11:57 PM
Here's something I put together that I think would be most effective as an application for organizing a challenge. A system where people can join in on a challenge and participate, adding their work and having other users comment. Also an admin section to control the current challenge and voting system.

Had trouble visiting the site - I get a 'Cannot find server' error.

Thanks for having a go, but I think I'll end up coding the system as I have to integrate it into the new site.

L.

pascal_blanche
12-31-2001, 12:13 AM
formalizing challenges could be really be a plus for the Cg talk community. you definitivly have to work on that Leonard :D :D

Remember me Jean Eric wanted to do something like this a few month ago, with top class judges.... could be cool to have big profesionnals sharing with the community! Imagine this: modelling challenge judged by a few guys from ILM or animation challenge with Pixars guys for judges! ;)

what do you think about it?

marioucci
12-31-2001, 12:20 AM
well pascal,
im not a religious man myself but that would be the closest thing to heaven i can think of..
and now im a litlle nervous:)

ACFred
12-31-2001, 12:27 AM
I really like the idea of the "challenge" being officially sponsored and supported by CGChannel.

I think the semantic difference between "challenge" and "contest" is negligible. The rules used to govern whatever you want to call it will help to dictate the general atmosphere.
Since most people seem interested in learning more about the craft of 3D, the rules should definitely reflect that desire.

We each are incentivized by different needs and wants. Whether it's the thrill of the process, learning new techniques or beating others out of prizes, the results will be the same if the rules are created to satisfy the most general motives.

Of the myriad suggestions made so far, I find those speaking to the various disciplines within 3D the most compelling. I believe that there should be contests/challenges (I'll use contest from here on) for each, occuring simultaneously. I think many will be torn as to which contest to enter, but after a contest or two, people will feel the need to excel in one specific area instead of try to do something in all disciplines (very real world).

Anyway, these are my initial thoughts. I've enjoyed watching CGChannel grow over the last 6 months and think that the respect and influence the site now commands will help garner ample prizes and spawn a whole new set of tutorials and supporting techniques to improve the abilities of many -- I selfishly await the order you will bring out of the challenge chaos so I may benefit from the talent and energy of those entangled in the growing maelstrom.

That's it.

Alec

pascal_blanche
12-31-2001, 12:28 AM
I'm sure it could be done LOGANARTS, once the challenges will be oficially part of cg talk and fixed ;) That could be a Must !!!

cerreto
12-31-2001, 02:13 AM
hey I want a big gold star for geting the ball rolling !one for logan arts and pascal too LOL !!

Taoizm
12-31-2001, 03:19 AM
Triadas, that's a great looking start. I think something like that would really help out.

Triadis
12-31-2001, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by Leonard


Had trouble visiting the site - I get a 'Cannot find server' error.

Thanks for having a go, but I think I'll end up coding the system as I have to integrate it into the new site.

L.

Hmm...try it again, it seems to be working.

I think it's a good idea that it be a part of this site. It would make the most sense. I just wanted to give it a whirl to get some ideas out there.

-Alex

Psy
12-31-2001, 04:34 PM
@Leonard

If your planning to implememnt it with the site, what language are you going to do it in. If its PHP and SQL I can help with it a bit since I have experience with both. Also, thanks for changing my vote.

Psy


I eat very little, I don't take up much space, I can start a fire with two small sticks!

Y-Guy
12-31-2001, 05:43 PM
I say the judjing by the ILM people is very doable, all those ppl are close to the 3D community, and have contributed on a regular basis. As long as we have some names to send, and some good WIPS!!! The WIPS are a crutial part of getting noticed. My highschool did not get computer funding until me and my friends started makeing stuff like crazy and sending it in.

SO I think we should muther up some WIPs to show these big ppl, and go 4 it.

By the way, Pascal... *bows* Love your work!

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