MSNBC: Talking Animal Movies are Ruining My Life

[jscheel]

Well said. Unfortunately, studio executives like money, and playing it safe by using a tried-and-true model is the easiest way to make money. It's a sad world, is it not?

[LucentDreams]

I think he isn't seriously looking at the films he likes.

the only point he sort of has right is that generally the stuff was less tiresome when disney was the only one releasing and they did it every few years. Still, whats makes disney any different than the current film makers there?

I found the Miyazaki comment funny too, I concure that he is one of the best animation directors out there, but to think that he doesnt' have set formula's for his films too is plain ignorant.

Look at Pixar films with the same generalization he has made to plots:

Mr Incredible misses the days of saving the world, the typical grass is greener in the wild instead of suburbia. he goes out, risks both his and his families lives and discovers the most important thing is family.

Finding Nemo, now granted there were two mixed journeys in this one, only the son thought is was greener out there, and he and his father both go on journeys and risk their lives to discover what they already had was most important, family, its identical to Disney's the wild with the father and sucn comparison, and hardly an original plot either.

what makes the difference is Ghibli and Pixar have good story tellers its not the desitnation that matters or the moral etc, its the actual journey and thats where they do a better job.


The big problem right now is not the furry animals, its some really lame story tellers (hoodwinked and barnyard) and far too similar movies at the same time. how many over hyper squirrels have their been in a three year period regardless of the plot. Hoodwinked, Over the Hedge, The wild.


And while I'm sick of the constant double movies, like two bug movies, two fish movies, two zoo into wild movies, etc, I'd say most of those are still better than polar express and Monster house in terms of look lighting and most importantly animation.

[Szos]

It's all the people illegally downloading movies that are causing ticket sales to go down... not the fact that the vast majority of Hollywood movies - animated or otherwise - are overly formulaic, predictable and have insanely over-played stories. Nope. It's not that... it's the damn file downloaders. Yup.

[Flog]

Hollywood is simply counter productive and destroying itself while new forms of entertainment grow.

They waste money and have over inflated budgets.
They make the same animal movies
They make to many of those movies
They charge higher prices than the normal family is willing to invest in.

It's going to implode to a certain degree, have fewer studios and more indie studios arising.

I remember though when Disney first started he did the movies he wanted and didn't care, Fantasia being one of them, but he was willing to experiment.

Indie folks will still experiment and here adn there you will get a gem.

I found the Miyazaki comment funny too, I concure that he is one of the best animation directors out there, but to think that he doesnt' have set formula's for his films too is plain ignorant.



I'm sure he does but he has a lot more range and uses differant kinds of characters and aint' afraid to take risks and just make the films he wants and likes. Oh and did I mention he does Disney quality animation at 20 million dollars instead of 100 Million?

[Michael5188]

Well Kai (Lucentdreams), I really think you hit it on the head when you say it isn't the destination or moral that matters but the journey there. None of the Pixar films carry morals never seen in film before, but they succeed at telling a story that teach those morals. Likewise, a lot of animated films I've seen in the past that I didn't like so much, I thought had good morals, but the story and characters were just simply lacking.

[LucentDreams]

I'm sure he does but he has a lot more range and uses differant kinds of characters and aint' afraid to take risks and just make the films he wants and likes. Oh and did I mention he does Disney quality animation at 20 million dollars instead of 100 Million?

and the majority of main character designs for Miyazaki films have not changed from his early films to now. Miyzaki's story telling is fanstastic but onwe oculd easily agre his aniamtions are often of a lower individual quality that much of the disney style, the clean up line quality a lot simpler etc. Soemthigns liike the environment backgrounds are far more complex, but yes generally it is a cheaper production because its also using a style that is notoriously cheaper.

don't anyoen get me wrong about Miyzaki's films, Totoro and Nausica are two of my favourite, but I still see them for what makes thems special, and I acknowledge what makes them produce so quickly and cheaply.

Disney wastes a lot of money, and they pay some animators sums we'd all love to make (GK may be one of the best animators on the planet, but he makes a hell of a lot more and can make demands like let me work in Paris, these are things that add to high production costs.)

[havokzprodigy]

That guy came across as completly insane to me.


'Talking-animal movies are ruining my life'-----Then you need to get another life becuase that last one obviuosly sucked if these things ruined it.

Why did you make me sit through “Barnyard,”? --------WTF? They must of had a gun to his head.


"And why was I expected to take that scene seriously for even one second?"----Umm it's a kids movie if you went in there to take anything serious in the first palce thats your problem.


I can't even read another word beyond that insane idiotic rambling.

[ntmonkey]

Dear Mr. Critic/Writer/Dude,

I worked on that movie Barnyard, and I'm glad you didn't like it. It brings me great joy to know that I had a lot of fun making that movie and got paid rather well for it while it tortured your miserable soul. And to specifically spite you, they have made a TV show that will impregnate the minds of young children all over that male cows have udders, creating confusion and mass panic over something that we consider make-believe. Keep those articles coming because I take immense joy in your misery.

peace,

Lu

P.S. There is no Santa. :D

[P_T]

While some of the things he said seemed to be a bit melodramatic, he did make some good points like audiences need to take a break from the many offering of talking animal CG movies which was made worse by "pairing" them.

C'mon TMNT!! hurry up and be finished already.

[CelticArtist]

Dear Mr. Critic/Writer/Dude,

I worked on that movie Barnyard, and I'm glad you didn't like it. It brings me great joy to know that I had a lot of fun making that movie and got paid rather well for it while it tortured your miserable soul. And to specifically spite you, they have made a TV show that will impregnate the minds of young children all over that male cows have udders, creating confusion and mass panic over something that we consider make-believe. Keep those articles coming because I take immense joy in your misery.

peace,

Lu

P.S. There is no Santa. :D

Well said my friend, well said

[poly-phobic]

thats great sarcasm.

but i dont think the author has any problems with the animators/td or effect artists who worked on Barn yard or any other mentioned movies in that article.

you got paid great. you got paid while making the market just a little more over-saturated;
you think you will still be getting paid rather "well" five years from now if these movies keep coming out like water ?

[Flog]

Here is the thing though....

Keep making these animal movies and audiences will get tired of it and less likely to spend 10 dollars on the movie.

Then in turn since less are going the movie industry raises the price to 11 dollars to make up for it.

At the same time the cost of making these movies is going up and not down, so eventually...

Price goes up to make causes higher movie prices, causes family of 4 less likely to invest in it at 11 dollars a person to see the same type of movie.

And the cycle continues....then eventually to continue to make these movies, still costing 80-150 million to make they will then outsource your job to a lower market, and the cycle continues.

I think people should be concerned about oversaturation of the market cause when Hollywood feels these movies don't make the money they want, they stop making them for awhile and the ones that are made are fewer and farther in between, but at the same time they start cutting costs.

That is why it is so imperative to get new characters and/or if you don't go that route at least make it worthwhile outside of a goofy, funny caper.

Finding Nemo and Lion King were prime examples of great Animal movies, it had high stakes, treated the children as intelligent and really had charm.

Lion King was not all poop jokes but a serious story, with real villians and real stakes. I mean Mufasa was murdered in the first 10 minutes of the film. At the same time you still had the song and dance, but you had a real film with animals outside of the whole animals, talking, running stupid in town and farting all the time with a goof of a villian that is stupid and really not a villian.

Think of all the great movies that Disney made and the real villians.

SCAR
Jifar
Ursula
The Leader of the Huns in Mulan

Now every villian in these animal movies is usually Elmer Fudd.
These movies are fun for awhile but can ultimately be a downfall if to many and to close together. Let the audience rest a bit. We have had 8 3d animated movies back to back. How can parents and kids keep up with 10 dollars a ticket?

[poly-phobic]

quoting for agreement.

well said. i completely agree with the out-sourcing point.

if the author worded things the way you did, he would have been more credible.
this is a really important issue. big money studios dont really give a damn if you port their company names under your sig or avatar, when it comes time to lay you off and send your job overseas to people who will do it for less than 1/3 the cost, they re not hesitating.


Here is the thing though....

Keep making these animal movies and audiences will get tired of it and less likely to spend 10 dollars on the movie.

Then in turn since less are going the movie industry raises the price to 11 dollars to make up for it.

At the same time the cost of making these movies is going up and not down, so eventually...

Price goes up to make causes higher movie prices, causes family of 4 less likely to invest in it at 11 dollars a person to see the same type of movie.

And the cycle continues....then eventually to continue to make these movies, still costing 80-150 million to make they will then outsource your job to a lower market, and the cycle continues.

I think people should be concerned about oversaturation of the market cause when Hollywood feels these movies don't make the money they want, they stop making them for awhile and the ones that are made are fewer and farther in between, but at the same time they start cutting costs.

That is why it is so imperative to get new characters and/or if you don't go that route at least make it worthwhile outside of a goofy, funny caper.

Finding Nemo and Lion King were prime examples of great Animal movies, it had high stakes, treated the children as intelligent and really had charm.

Lion King was not all poop jokes but a serious story, with real villians and real stakes. I mean Mufasa was murdered in the first 10 minutes of the film. At the same time you still had the song and dance, but you had a real film with animals outside of the whole animals, talking, running stupid in town and farting all the time with a goof of a villian that is stupid and really not a villian.

Think of all the great movies that Disney made and the real villians.

SCAR
Jifar
Ursula
The Leader of the Huns in Mulan

Now every villian in these animal movies is usually Elmer Fudd.
These movies are fun for awhile but can ultimately be a downfall if to many and to close together. Let the audience rest a bit. We have had 8 3d animated movies back to back. How can parents and kids keep up with 10 dollars a ticket?

[ntmonkey]

thats great sarcasm.

but i dont think the author has any problems with the animators/td or effect artists who worked on Barn yard or any other mentioned movies in that article.

you got paid great. you got paid while making the market just a little more over-saturated;
you think you will still be getting paid rather "well" five years from now if these movies keep coming out like water ?

Hard to say. Our industry is fickle just as the audience is fickle. Stablity is pretty much an illusional carrot dangling in front of you. I don't plan on going down with a sinking ship if that's what you mean. 3D is a very versatile medium and can be used beyond film and games, and there's other opportunites about. I personally like commercial and music videos as those seem to be a more creative use of 3D than say, oh....talking animal movies.

What's coming up next on the horizon is what makes this industry exciting. And I plan on being there when it happens. If my ablity were soley limited to working on animated features, then I'd worry. But luckily, they're not.

Heck, I don't work on animated features now, and have already adapted to a different kind of 3D. I find it just as engaging and in some ways, more fullfilling than film. So to each his own I guess. I'll probably be doing something different in 1 year from now. The industry moves fast. We don't even have to go to 5 years to sense a change.

Best,

Lu

[betito]

I think one or two or even three talking-animal movies were ok in the past, such as Antz or Nemo, but I think I'll pass on the other dozen made in the last four years, even if they come from Pixar we just won't see them, sorry.

Actually I can't believe they are still coming up with "ratatuille"

I agree about this, new fresh ideas have to be placed on the table.

[Geese Howard]

Yah, i dunno...after all these years of learning 3D as a personal interest kinda thing. I can honestly say i've only seriously sat down and watched like 10 CG movies since the industry boomed. ToyStories, Shreks, Incredibles, Monsters Inc. and i think Ice Age? Those were actually inspirational examples. But i was kinda bored of these mindless animal genre flicks quite a few years ago. I'm still waiting for Hollywood to get over the hump that CG/2DAnimated aren't just for kids. When that happens, the creativity pool will get a little better. But in the meantime, i think we're gonna have to put up with this for quite a few more years....

[ravioli_rancher]

If anyone offers an animator money to make a rat or fish or donkey talk, they'll usually do it. Money's awesome. :applause: And usually doesn't gave a rat's rump what somebody's creative ethics are. Just keep selling what's sold in the past, and keep making as much money as you can. That's how business is supposed to work. No need to be original if the audience will pay for something quick and easily digestible.

Every Pixar and Shrek film will always net between $150 and $300 million in the US alone. All those product tie ins are part of corporate branding. Audiences are conditioned to expect more of the same and like it. Kind of like Holloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. Tradition is safe and comfortable, and ridiculously profitable.

Novelty is the wasteland of independent producers. And when something truly new and unique emerges, larger, more powerful companies will take it, and turn it into piles of money. That's another industrial tradition.

If it's okay to criticize animated films as following a worn-out recipe, then the same should be said of all the recent live action sequels and super-hero movies, or really any product (software) that depends on sequels and an assembly line process of repackaging the old into something that, on the surface, appears new.

But, no matter how much somebody complains, tradition is irresistible. Audience love a certain formula, like favorite cereals and candy-bars and comic books, and get mad if they're given something different or uncustomary (see how many people complain about some programs interfaces for not be traditional or what they're accustomed to).

If cut and paste methods can net $1 billion dollars, and a chance to escape the rat race, who the hell is going to turn that down? You can enjoy creative integrity after you've secure financial security. Otherwise, you may just end up spending years on a film that's so unique, it only interests you and nobody will spend money to watch it.

And without money, we're all forced to hunt and kill our own food. Maybe then we'll have a reason to complain about talking squirrels. :D :buttrock: :love:

[ihavenofish]

i like talking squirrels!

i think what was said above by ravioli man.. mmm, now im hungry.. is about right.

"I" think there are too many animal movies. "I" would like to see more original concepts and stories. "I" dont matter though. these films arent made for me, or for most of the people here. these films arent made for the people who make the films. they are made for kids. thats the paying audience, and um.. they arent quite as discerning as we are. actually, i take that back, they are far more discrening.. they just dont happen to agree with us :)

typically, a movie that does well in the box office does so because its "good". now, you may think its an utter pile of crap, but really, noone cares what you think. not the producers, not the kids who fill the seats and buy the colouring books. the best examples of this lately are ice age 2, the wild, and hoodwinked.

hoodwinked on many levels is a terrible movie. but people found the story funny, and made it profitable. ice age 2 is another talking animal movie, and a sequel at that.. but, people liked it (i like it too) and it made stupid money. the wild.. well.. i havent seen much more than a few clips, and while its easy to pass off as bad.. the numbers say it all. probably one of the biggest money losing cg movies of all time. i think it made less than final fantasy, which used to be the benchmark for bad.

so really, saturation (and even bad animation), as much as we here find it annoying isnt going to kill hollywood, or cg hollywood movies, and your jobs. bad movies, bad stories, bad characters, however will. pixar has nothing to worry about with their new talking rat movie, provided they make a film people will enjoy. lets just hope they dont make any more "the wild"s.

later

[Unled]

I tend to agree with the article's sentiment, but I think the writer came across as a passive aggressive whiner.
People seem to agree that talking animal movies are on their way out, but there's going to be plenty coming out in the near future. Dreamwork's got one about Bee's coming out next year.

But let's look at two often mentioned examples,


The Barnyard, cost $51 Million to make and grossed $88 Million worldwide. That's a profit of $37 million dollars and it hasn't even come out on DVD yet. After DVD sales it will make a very tidy profit, enough to justify the films creation and possibly a sequel.

Hoodwinked, widely reviled on the forums here reportedly cost about $15 million to make, and grossed $100 worldwide, and pulled in an additional $21 million in Rentals.
That's an amazing profit and something tells me we'll see a lot more from the company that brought us Hoodwinked.

So these movies are still pulling in a good amount of money, and until they stop making profits we'll keep seeing them. Which is fine, I think there should just be some diversity in CG animation and that is right around the corner with TMNT, and the exciting sounding project that Vangard Animation (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=423690) is working on.

[Bullit]

How can parents and kids keep up with 10 dollars a ticket?

Maybe it's good time to teach the kids that they cant have anything they want and that later in life they also would have too choose between tasting things .They should thank for that, in a not distant past it wasnt possible to choose.
Just educating for a free economy where tentations are in every corner... Hope this didnt sounded too harsh :)

There is no saturation and will not be. The world economy is growing up like never before and
every year millions enter into global market (just look at China and India), even Africa(parts of it) are slowly improving.

We all have to learn that we cant taste all candy out there.

[Cyborgguineapig]

Maybe it's good time to teach the kids that they cant have anything they want and that later in life they also would have too choose between tasting things .

IF thats how things worked then they wouldn't be making profits on these types of films.

[Bullit]

IF thats how things worked then they wouldn't be making profits on these types of films.

Why not? there are millions of kids.

[Charkins]

From a consumer's perspective... Yea, these movies are getting old! How many movies are they going to try and sell us - they all have talking animals and similar plot. Once you have seen 1-2, you have seen them all. This is why I don't spend nearly $20 to go see them in theatres. This is why I don't rent them. They have nothing new to offer. There is more fun in watching TNG on SpikeTV!

From an animator's perspective... Keeps us in business, right? The biz is booming! Does anyone else have a story/concept that could sell to the masses? Sure, there are plenty of great stories, but how many of them are your typical popcorn-munching zombies going to want to watch? Tell me a good story that hasn't been told. As long as people will keep paying for it, they will keep making it.

The commentary itself was pretty weak. Whiney and sarcastic... Then again what else is to be expected from msnbc?

[Brent Turbo]

Even though talking animals put food on my table, I'm very confident that the CG feature industry will, and should, crash. Every bubble must pop, and box office numbers clearly indicate that audiences are growing weary of by-the-numbers CG features.

Things will level out, as they always do, but if anyone thinks that the halcyon days of CG animation are gonna stick around much longer, they're probably wrong. Is it good for everyone? Absolutely!!

[neurobasics]

i am also quite sick of the animals and i never was a big fan of them anyway. there are a lot of talented people out there who work on something they don't find enticing.
i understand that people/companies need to pay bills, pay loans, and money is important but why cannot a giant like disney have an experimental lab for digital animation, for something that would create smaller budget little side projects of more creative nature with more freedom for the artists?

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