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View Full Version : What are the advantages of xsi's toon shader from the other 3d packages'?


Memodin
11-02-2006, 05:19 PM
Hi.
I wonder, why are the most companies use xsi for toon shading? What are the strong points of xsi than the other 3d packages? For example El Cid the spanish animation film made with xsi. Or some japanese animes (appleseed etc.).

Also i saw maya today, it is very impresive at the lines. You can see the lines in real time Open gl mode (i couldnt find it in xsi). You can direct control them.

Thanks.

dwigfor
11-02-2006, 06:03 PM
Can you find out what the opengl shader is called in maya? Is it similar to the one found in netview? I also found one at: http://www.renderregion.com/sascha/rt/rtlist.htmI can't get it to draw ink lines except around the outside. Anyone know how you can create realtime inklines around clusters?

mocaw
11-02-2006, 06:37 PM
OK, at the risk of making myself look like a fool in yet another toon shade thread I'll give my own very limited opinion.

Based on what I've seen, and what I've used, I'd say it's slightly slower than others, but for a classic toon drawn look it is very flexible- LOTS of control with fade to distance etc. and it plays well for the most part with other nodes in XSI etc. I like how flexable XSI's toon shader is with lights and how you use them...

C4Ds little toon mod is about as nice as it gets and is very well rounded when it comes to the lines part. You can get a similar look to many of the examples shown on Maxon's site with other render engines, but this one is built for it. Is there another package that gives you over draw so easy? But then again there are all the other issues IMHO with the program.

LW toon shading, both 3rd party and native is REALLY fast. But it is very limited unless you are willing to do crazy work arounds (which can produce VERY cool images) using 2D motion blur. I often miss it's speed, but not much else!!!

I've seen some good third party stuff from Maya as well but have not used it or seen them in action- so I can't comment!

tachy0n
11-02-2006, 06:39 PM
The Maya one at least isn't an OGL shader at all, it's a rather clever trick. When you apply that effect in Maya, what it really does is make an instance of the object, invert its normals, apply a push op and color the instance the color of your ink lines. You can get the same thing in XSI as well (though you will of course have to do the steps manually or script them)

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/5803/fakeinksju6.th.jpg (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fakeinksju6.jpg)

Memodin
11-03-2006, 10:54 AM
Thanks for replies.

tachy0n;
i understood you, its ok. But i couldnt apply it. Instanced model couldnt inverted. I cloned it but when i invert normals and apply push, the result was weird. Where is my mistake or can you send a simple scn file?
Thanks.

tachy0n
11-03-2006, 11:29 AM
You have to use very small values for the push. Try running this:


CreatePrim "Cube", "MeshSurface"
Clone , , 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1
ActivatePolygonSelTool
ActivatePolygonSelTool
SelectAllUsingFilter "Polygon", siCheckComponentVisibility
ApplyTopoOp "InvertPolygon", "cube1.poly ", siUnspecified, siPersistentOperation
ActivateObjectSelTool
ApplyShader "Material\Constant", , , , siLetLocalMaterialsOverlap
SetValue "cube1.Material.Constant.color.red", 0.1364422
SetValue "cube1.Material.Constant.color.green", 0.121452
SetValue "cube1.Material.Constant.color.blue", 0.698
ApplyOp "Push", "cube1", 3, siPersistentOperation, , 0
SetValue "Camera.camdisp.culbackface", True
SetDisplayMode "Camera", "shaded"
SetValue "cube1.polymsh.pushop.ampl", -0.1
ActivateObjectSelTool
DeselectAll

mr-doOo
11-03-2006, 11:52 AM
The Maya one at least isn't an OGL shader at all, it's a rather clever trick. When you apply that effect in Maya, what it really does is make an instance of the object, invert its normals, apply a push op and color the instance the color of your ink lines. You can get the same thing in XSI as well (though you will of course have to do the steps manually or script them)

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/5803/fakeinksju6.th.jpg (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fakeinksju6.jpg)

Actually I think it is a little bit more complex than that, it look like a contour detection that is building a contour object. I think (but i m not sure) it is based on this paper
http://www.gamasutra.com/education/theses/20030707/jerome_thoma_thesis.pdf
see the geometric stroke section.
Some years ago, the softimage ink shader was one of the best but today i really prefer the maya one it render really quick(only maya renderer not MR) you can add geometry deformers on it, you can add paint effects and even you own hand drawn contour (as a texture), it have more options to get a very differants looks, and you can see the effect in realtime in your 3d view!!!.
I would love to have an xsi equivalent.
just my 2 euros.
LF

Memodin
11-03-2006, 11:55 AM
I see. Thank you.
But this works only for preview. When rendering, it doesnt work.

My friend at work use maya and the paint effects give wonderful results. He draws the wrinkles over the mesh easily with pen-tablet. And the lines become polygons. They are snapped to mesh nicely. With this, you can draw lines where you want. I'd like to do this with xsi. (I think we will use maya for our project if we cant do it in xsi.).

mr-doOo
11-03-2006, 12:01 PM
XSI is my primary software, so what I m doing is to do everythings in it then export my scene with point oven in myay to only render the ink.
LF

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