Makehuman 0.9.0

[AikoWorld]

Intresting program, must try this out.

[Erklaerbar]

Sweet:thumbsup: Didnt know this project is still alive. Kudos to the team, gonna try it right now.

[Erklaerbar]

Hey, just tried it. Now thats an update, its so much faster, works great and looks great, MANY thanks

[Cig74]

Very cool, but isn't this cheating? You couldn't take full credit for your model if a program generated it for you.

[Erklaerbar]

lol? Youre rather reinventing the wheel every time? Youre not earning any money then!

[grafikimon]

Very cool, but isn't this cheating? You couldn't take full credit for your model if a program generated it for you.

For a reel no you can't.

For a client that wants a model yesterday this can be a life saver.

[BinarySoup]

well, you can always reuse parts of your OWN models rather than reinventing the wheel, which is quite different from having a program generate them. that said, this looks like a very well done project and judging from the frontpage screenshot it generates good looking models.

[Spin99]

generated 3d model rendering -> artistic value == 0%

[Walli]

I think it´s funny that people always consider tools like MakeHuman as cheating - but using texture and material collections seems to be accepted. Same seems to be true for 3D plants.

I think as long as you don´t claim, that you modeled all yourself, then it´s okay.

best,
Walli

[SylvanMist]

IMO, programs like this and poser have the same worth as something like using photos for matte painting, or like someone else said, using textures that you did not make in your image.

What it all comes down to is what the end product comes out to be, and what your goals are for your project.

[havokzprodigy]

I think it´s funny that people always consider tools like MakeHuman as cheating - but using texture and material collections seems to be accepted. Same seems to be true for 3D plants.

I think as long as you don´t claim, that you modeled all yourself, then it´s okay.

best,
Walli

I find it funny also.
People seem to draw the line at whats cheating and what isn't based on what works for them.
Nothing is cheating. Cheating on what? Software are tools of the trade.
Everything can be considered a cheat if you were to think that way.
If anything is cheating, it's that these people are cheating themselves out of time and money.

[Johny]

might come in handy for people with a very tight deadline, still i think that making stuff like a make art button doesnt have much value, you basically didnt do anything...

[amannin]

i'm impressed, can't wait to go home and try it out.

[Spin99]

Sorry not trying to start flame wars or detract from the featured software in any way :D

But let's face it -- the artistic aspect of doing cg art seems to decrease further and further as machines get faster and software advances.

Who paints cg hair these days? It's mostly generated...
Really, cg implies technical knowledge and computer literacy, but I think you need to
draw the line somewhere?

Of course it'll meet the deadline, I just hope the client isn't paying for digital sculpture and getting generated humans, that's all I'm trying to say.

Different worth for different technical kinds of work?
Just look at a Rick Baker head, or Taron's work -- thank god no software is anywhere near generating art like that :D

[havokzprodigy]

might come in handy for people with a very tight deadline, still i think that making stuff like a make art button doesnt have much value, you basically didnt do anything...

Not all of it is art.
I consider it a make more money faster button.:deal:
But then again I'm not in it for the sake of art, I'm in it to make a living.

[RetroTorque]

To me it comes down to an issue of authorship, not an issue of artistic content when it comes to using generators and programs like poser.

I think that a person can make good fine art and meaningful art with poser and it's ilk, but I wouldn't feel like it was 100% their work, since they just manipulated something that was provided to them, rather than creating it from scratch.

As a 2d artist I'll use poser and bryce to help me visualize something, but the end result of my drawings are 100% mine as I don't trace the poser/bryce renderings, but only use them as my outline.

[Erklaerbar]

can we make a break here pls! There are tons of ways to use this application creatively!

1) You can make your own base and own morphs, ready to be mixed together as in a professional application like XSIs shapemanager. I assume almost all commercial studios have some sort of character generation tools like this in the pipeline...

2) You could use it to quickly sketch up a pose you want to apply to your own mesh and see how that should look.

3) you could of course just assume the output to be basemeshes and sculpt your own stuff on top of it

4) Use the body as constraint for clothes and put your own head on it.

and so on ...

Feels a bit strange to see such an useful application to be dissed with poserish arguments.

I love it already

[suds]

I thinks it's great, good job!

[Atwooki]

It's a nice idea; however it would be useful from a technical standpoint to get rid of those miscellaneous triangles (underarms)

[JA-forreal]

I will try this out. Sweet stuff.

I need to generate some fast people for my 3d cities. Hey I'm not insane enough to model a hundred or so characters at a moments notice. Any experienced 3d modeler can remodel the Makehuman character look right on out of each model. And no one will be the wiser.:)

[vincentxu]

I tried it and like it so much. It saves a lot time for coders like me.

And it is a great "tool" for you, not a "product" for your clients.

[Fede]

Spin99, you are obviously working for someone and not for yourself else you would not have made such a statement. Creating art in 3D is great but there is a time and a place for it, we have got to make ends meet to carry on with it.

I think this is great, just like web templates :twisted:

[BUZZFX]

Is there a mac version?

[Tirjasdyn]

Feels a bit strange to see such an useful application to be dissed with poserish arguments.

I love it already

Considering you could do the same in Poser.

Poser doesn't have a make art button. I know people think it does. The same goes for DAZ Studio and Makehuman. And some people do just load stuff and hit render. Many do not. They use the shader tree, they use the cloth simulations, and hair room.

Software is like make human, poser and studio are great for: populating scenes quickly

collage art

learning the basics of 3d

bases for digital painting

etc.

[Cig74]

Business minded individuals will look at Makehuman as a tool to quickly satisfy a client and move from project to project more fluidly. I have to admit that it really is quite an impressive program.

For someone who works all day and through the morning hours, pulling out their hair, cursing at the monitor, and, yes, at times almost being on the verge of tears.. there is the the reward of sitting back after the smoke clears and appreciating every detail of what you've created.

That is my opinion and everyone else is entitled to theirs.

[HannesJ]

Each time I try to download it from the sourceforge.net-site I get a 12 kB file which does nothing.
Is there another source for downloading? I'd love to give it a try.

[HannesJ]

Solved the problem. It was Star Downloader that caused this. Weird!
I temporarily uninstalled SD and am now downloading the 42MB file.

[NanoGator]

Very cool, but isn't this cheating? You couldn't take full credit for your model if a program generated it for you.

There's no such thing as cheating in production.

[yenvalmar]

any well edge looped face looks basically the same in topography, im sure we all noticed that. the artistry is in making a likeness or a fake character that appears to have the individuality of a real person. shoot, i've been recycling my own meshes for years now anyways, am i less of an artist each time i adapt the same face i made 6 years ago? i'll still check this out, ya never know when you need a big crowd..

tools like this to me are great because they save all the drudgery, assuming they actually work well. but unless they have a "make this exact person" button i will usually be doing quite a bit of tweaking on the results.. usually you are given a concept to match, what are the odds thas gonna be a preset.. and if people do use the presets eventually it will become obvious because they will be seen over and over, as far as people "cheating" to get jobs.

[kenshinw95]

Yeah, I've been conflicted about MakeHuman when it was still just a python script for Blender. Many people told me just to do the "trick" of using it. Then putting my own face, clothes, and textures on it, so that I'd quit trying to make a character from scratch. I mean how would I learn about modeling a female if I just got a pre-made one? :rolleyes:
I have looked at it, and might use it, but only for when the scene calls for like "man on bus", or "girl in club #2". Y'know, the extras. The "throwaway" characters that will never be seen again.. Although, they're high poly meshes, so they might slow down the animation more than the characters I've made from scratch. :shrug:

[aleppax]

Is there a mac version?

The MAC OSX version has been released!
Download it here. (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=150931)

-------------------------------------------------
linux users can download sources from CVS,

cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@makehuman.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/makehuman login
When prompted for a password for anonymous, simply press the Enter key.
cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@makehuman.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/makehuman co -P animorph/
cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@makehuman.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/makehuman co -P mhgui/
cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@makehuman.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/makehuman co -P makehuman/
unzip all zipped archives in /makehuman/data and /makehuman/pixmaps
then you have to compile everything in this order:
animorph --> MHgui --> makehuman

[richcz3]

There's no such thing as cheating in production.
Absolutely right!
OK - Perfect " Real World" example this week
I needed to comp 2 graphics with people for some shows that were going to be shown to a VP of the department. Also needed a realistic landscape simulating the Hollywood hills. These had to be done in HOURS not DAYS.
___________________________________________________________________________
What do I do
1.) Model, texture, rig, test then set up scenes, lights and render...then comp on graphics backgrounds.

OR

2.) Use a widely available programs that many like to malign and get the job done in time and set for approval?
___________________________________________________________________________

Once you work in a real production environment, your value is in your ability to use the tools that get the job done, so the job gets approved and out the door. Clinging to purists "Everything from Scratch" or "Better than thou" can be detrimental to a deadline....and a career. :argh:

[kenshinw95]

Once you work in a real production environment, your value is in your ability to use the tools that get the job done, so the job gets approved and out the door. Clinging to purists "Everything from Scratch" or "Better than thou" can be detrimental to a deadline....and a career. :argh:

That doesn't sound quite right. Do the employers know, or care that people modify stuff others have made for use in the project they hired the people to make? Can you actually get hired if your "demo reel" consists of stuff like that? Although, somehow that does explain why so many of the 3D movies, and TV shows look so similar recently. That could also be the reason why there's been so many talking animal, and cartoony people 3D CG movies. Maybe that's why people went ga-ga over the 2 Final Fantasy movies' trailers? They looked different than most 3D CG movies usually do. :shrug:

Maybe that's the also problem the "purists", as you put it, have with stuff like Poser, and MakeHuman. They're tired of people being praised for making such great 3D characters, and scenes when all they did was "dress up" someone's else's character & locations while they put in the work to make their own characters, and such. Don't get me wrong I stuff like machinima, but they come right out and say that they didn't make everything. Just the stories in their machinima film. I also like well-done fan-films, and plan to do a few for the fun, and experience of it. But they don't take credit for creating the characters, and locations. Unless the characters & locations in their film doesn't exist in the source material.

[NanoGator]

That doesn't sound quite right. Do the employers know, or care that people modify stuff others have made for use in the project they hired the people to make? Can you actually get hired if your "demo reel" consists of stuff like that?


I think it depends on a.) What the job they're applying for is and b.) What the final work looks like. If somebody, for example, made a demo reel featuring a bunch of distinctively Poser'esque characters and claimed to be a modeler, that probably wouldn't fly at most places. If somebody started with a Poser or MakeHuman model then refined it to fit a solid design, who would really care? If somebody applied as a modeler but was overly reliant on an app like that, I could imagine them not getting hired. If somebody applied as a character designer and just used Poser/MakeHuman to get started, it's not very likely that'd be an issue. Being able to build something from scratch and simply getting the job done are two very different concepts. On Monsters Inc., for example, they built generic monster pieces and put them together to make a variety of characters. Is that fundamentally that much different?

I think part of the breakdown with this discussion is some people are looking at these apps as a tool to speed up the start-up process, while others are seeing it as a generator for final results. (I think most of us have bumped into Poser comics, for example.) This has to be clarified if any meaningful discussion is going to take place. From my own experience, I've seen uses in both circumstances. In the case of the former, I've seen artists take renders of Poser models and paint on top of them. It's great as a guide for maintaining human proportions, not an easy task to do otherwise. In the case of the latter, I've seen Poser'esque apps used to quickly generate characters for pre-viz. Yeah, they looked generic, but they were quick to develop and the scenes didn't require more detail than that.

It's the end result that matters. I had this discussion with a well-established artist not too long ago. He said something like "If it got the job done, I'd throw dog food on it." Hehe.

[NanoGator]

If anybody's curious, I had a little fun with MakeHuman tonight. I made a rendering of one of the models, printed it, and drew on top of it. I just wanted to do a doodle of a construction robot.

http://www.nanogator.com/art/rsol/makehuman-mech.jpg

It's not a great drawing for a variety of reasons (i.e. I didn't pick a very good pose or camera angle), but I'm not very talented when it comes to drawing humans so it helped me reach a point I couldn't have otherwise. It wouldn't land me a design job at ILM but at least it got the creative juices flowing. :)

[archerx]

seems interesting, i'll check it out.

[Spin99]

I've been following this and wanted to make a couple notes?
Yes, ok, you use generator apps for "extras" if you don't have time.

Still, I'm sure some "actual" modellers will have generic characters that might even be more efficient (low-poly even) for that sort of work? But ok, "extras" is probably ok?
I also understand it all depends on deadline, work required and results to achieve, sure.

But my main point is -- There will NEVER BE a make art button.
Such a button would never achieve the individualism, virtuosity and detail of
a work by any real acknowledged cg artist.
I am talking of the "Hollywood" master sculptors, of course.

There won't be one in 50 years from now, and I doubt there'll be one in 100 years :D

[kenshinw95]

I think it depends on a.) What the job they're applying for is and b.) What the final work looks like. If somebody, for example, made a demo reel featuring a bunch of distinctively Poser'esque characters and claimed to be a modeler, that probably wouldn't fly at most places. If somebody started with a Poser or MakeHuman model then refined it to fit a solid design, who would really care? If somebody applied as a modeler but was overly reliant on an app like that, I could imagine them not getting hired. If somebody applied as a character designer and just used Poser/MakeHuman to get started, it's not very likely that'd be an issue.
That's what I thought about the this as it relates to jobs. I mean, I have no problem with someone putting characters like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman & Catwoman in their demo reel, 'cause people know what they look like. It's a good judge of how close the person can get to a client's vision. The problem is if they used Poser-like people dressed up as those characters for their modelling demo reel/job application.
Although it's only for a sorta fan-film, there's been many times I've thought of doing that to speed up completion of it. Thing is doing it that way. I wouldn't learn WHY the models look good, or how the modeller got them to look that way for when I do some original stuff. That and the two animations' models would look very different, I'd imagine. Y'know how artists have their "signature look" whether it's in 3D, or 2D. :D

Being able to build something from scratch and simply getting the job done are two very different concepts. On Monsters Inc., for example, they built generic monster pieces and put them together to make a variety of characters. Is that fundamentally that much different?
Actually, yes it is. For the simple reason that in the Monsters Inc. example, you said they made the base models, then mixed & matched 'em to make their characters. Not that they took another studio/company's pre-made monsters, and re-arranged them to make their monsters. I'm not opposed to someone making a base mesh, and then using modified versions of that for different characters. Shoot, I plan on doing that myself. That's why I spent so long on the head, and body of my female model. :thumbsup:

I think part of the breakdown with this discussion is some people are looking at these apps as a tool to speed up the start-up process, while others are seeing it as a generator for final results. (I think most of us have bumped into Poser comics, for example.) This has to be clarified if any meaningful discussion is going to take place. From my own experience, I've seen uses in both circumstances. In the case of the former, I've seen artists take renders of Poser models and paint on top of them. It's great as a guide for maintaining human proportions, not an easy task to do otherwise. In the case of the latter, I've seen Poser'esque apps used to quickly generate characters for pre-viz. Yeah, they looked generic, but they were quick to develop and the scenes didn't require more detail than that.
Using them for pre-viz is perfectly fine. It's just to block in the framing, and length of shots. Camera angles, and pans. Yeah, that's perfectly fine to use them as stand-in's for the actual models. Yeah, I've also seen those Poser comics, and animations. I kinda think of those as a works-in-progress, or experiments until they do the finished work which never surfaces since the people believe that they're already finished. :rolleyes:

It's the end result that matters. I had this discussion with a well-established artist not too long ago. He said something like "If it got the job done, I'd throw dog food on it." Hehe.
I think I've seen that "quality" of stuff in some video games, and 3DCG 'Toons. :D

[bluemagicuk]

Yea its awesome ..well done !!

[JA-forreal]

The MAC OSX version has been released!
Download it here. (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=150931)

-------------------------------------------------
linux users can download sources from CVS,

.........................

Whoa yeah I got it build on Ubuntu Dapper 6.06. I was using the windows build via Wine. A native Linux buld is so much better. Much thanks to the Makehuman development team!:thumbsup:

[aleppax]

Whoa yeah I got it build on Ubuntu Dapper 6.06. I was using the windows build via Wine. A native Linux buld is so much better. Much thanks to the Makehuman development team!:thumbsup:

deb packages for ubuntu are also ready:

UBUNTU MH packages (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=150931&package_id=211091)

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