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View Full Version : Am Renderer: Slow|great Faster|good?


PJC
02-06-2003, 04:32 PM
It would be great to have a button to switch between the two now wouldn't it?

- pjc

Wegg
02-06-2003, 04:42 PM
I'm a big fan of their old V4 renderer. It would just start at the top and march its way down till the image was done. No pre-calculations or anything. It may have been slow. But it was very predictable.

That renderer is still there BTW. Or at least it was in 8.5. Sometimes thats the only way we could get things rendered without the dreaded black blobs of death.

Just <Shift-Q Drag> and wait.

Kalimol
02-06-2003, 06:57 PM
None of the new features though--toon lines, particles, glows, fur--appear in the progressive render, it can't save out, and there is no anti-aliasing. Since it's faster, they left it in to test your scene/model/whatever, but it doesn't do much.

It also causes some very bizzare artifacts in 5-pt patches with Average Normals applied.

My Fault
02-06-2003, 07:04 PM
One thing that would be nice is to open up all the options the render has available to us. For instance in renderman if I don't want to use the "box" filter, I can change it to "sinc" and use that. If I want to use 6,6 instead of 1,1 I can do that as well. Open up the antialiasing to be user set instead of just checking "antialias." Options, options, options.

Plus a renderer can never be fast enough. They need to send the Hash programmers to a few SIGGRAPH papers to see what's up in the 3d graphics world. There's been some great advances in real time raytracing. I've got a buddy at Intel (former Stanford grad who was under Pat Hanrahan) who is working with some Russian and German programmers and they are getting wicked raytrace speeds. Hopefully they will be presenting at SIGGRAPH this year because it is mind blowing stuff.

pdaley
02-06-2003, 07:28 PM
MF:

Maybe a way to apease both camps (newbies and semi-pros) is an 'expert mode'. By default, ship AM so that the renderer has has simple toggles for things (AA, DOF, MoBlur) like it does currently. Then, if you enable 'expert mode' the options come out of hiding. I've seen this in many other kinds of software.

My Fault
02-06-2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by pdaley
MF:

Maybe a way to apease both camps (newbies and semi-pros) is an 'expert mode'. By default, ship AM so that the renderer has has simple toggles for things (AA, DOF, MoBlur) like it does currently. Then, if you enable 'expert mode' the options come out of hiding. I've seen this in many other kinds of software.

Yeah! They already have an "Advanced"mode, so maybe the extra options would be shown if that was selected. Good idea pdaley!

Kalimol
02-06-2003, 08:31 PM
And it's probably good that Advanced Properties mode is hidden where newbies can't find it and hurt themselves....

But more rendering options would be nice. Imagine if each pass for each object or material was put out in a different layer of a layered image file for independent modification.

PJC
02-06-2003, 08:54 PM
just like "multipass" in C4D?

I can save out a PSD with all sorts of stuff, Specular, shadow, reflections all in a different layer, or even export to a After Effects project.

It's cool. And it's a bit more expensive than AM.



Give me more AA options first in AM tho.

- pjc

John Keates
02-06-2003, 09:15 PM
There doesn't have to be a big trade-off between quality and speed of render. If the renderer is 4X faster (which I believe is possible), then we can pump up the AA or even oversample to get better results. I say that speed is priority (particularly as this is ANIMATION Master and not still image master).

Kalimol
02-07-2003, 03:06 AM
particularly as this is ANIMATION Master and not still image master

But a lot of art done with it is stills. After all, whether you're doing animation, comic books, or individual still works, it's still the cheapest product that can do everything in one program.

Perhaps given the extra control, though, it would work better both ways.

dfaris
02-08-2003, 04:33 AM
Can't vote on this because there is no pick for fast and great.

If hash is really putting a LW type of renderer in AM then fast and great should be an option.

Kevin Sanderson
02-09-2003, 03:43 AM
Just looked at images rendered by Splutterfish's Brazil r/s...http://www.splutterfish.com... It would be really nice if we could get that kind of quality... it could justify a price increase. Brazil can do subsurface light scattering and also has spiffy materials like car paint, wax and velvet. The glass and caustic renders look very real in the images I saw. If the materials in AM are given some extra parameters (after all, look at what Brian Prince was able to do with the existing material editor. I still gotta buy some of those! They're on my wish list after I pay taxes, Brian & Wegg.), and the renderer is spiffed up even more than what's being discussed (or maybe this is and I haven't heard it yet), this kind of quality could be reachable.

Speed isn't such an issue to me if it's in NetRender. But I'll take LW quality as well.

Kevin

John Keates
02-09-2003, 07:41 PM
Dream Dream Dream.....

Kevin Sanderson
02-09-2003, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by John Keates
Dream Dream Dream.....

Yeah, I know...but if Martin or James are reading these as folks say they are, then it can't hurt to mention it here as a wish. If he is indeed implementing a LW style render engine, then it's all possible. If Carrara Studio 2 can have a render engine that gives results people like (competitive with LW as I've heard some say) at their lower price, A:M can as well, IMHO. Years ago, who would've thought that you could do what is currently possible in A:M. Only the dreamers.

Kevin

Kevin Sanderson
02-09-2003, 10:24 PM
Oh, and here's a link for Carrera Studio http://www.eovia.com for comparison purposes.

Kevin

John Keates
02-09-2003, 11:56 PM
The dream comment was aimed more at the Splutterfish idea. That renderer is unbelievable. Maybe AM will have that kind of power someday but we have to be a little realistic for now. Yes, I think that we could have something like the Lightwave renderer soon, just look at Zpiders latest plugin- very powerfull.

Kevin Sanderson
02-10-2003, 08:37 AM
Zspider's stuff is very cool.

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