CGTalk - Lloyd Colaco - "Granny's Groove"

Manter

10-25-2006, 05:48 PM

there's one thing which disturb me... you plagiarized 2 shots of 'Gopher Broke' of Blur Studio, to me this is not an homage to Blur cause you used the exact animation in your shots, it gives the impression that it was rotoscoped... :sad:

I have to agree with artichaud. "Gopher Borke" it's a great short from Blur Studio and I think we all know that scene of happiness. In your work you copied it and it's exactly the same, you haven't added something personal and that disturb me as well. You should use references for animation but rotoscoping isn't very original. I hope you don't take this the wrong way but after watching your short it was clearly visible.

NickCH

10-25-2006, 06:27 PM

I've got to agree with the other posters about ripping off Gopher Broke. The animation and camera angles are identical, you really should have tried to put a bit of your own twist on things.

The overall presentation is quite nice, it's really a shame that you didn't put your own animation into it. You've definately got promise, but rotoscoping those 2 shots so closely makes us wonder whether or not you roto'd the rest of it as well.

LloydColaco

10-25-2006, 07:03 PM

Hey guys thanks for your comments,
All I can say is...its feels good if thats the only critic you have.My animated piece has a total of 24 shots and I clearly did not hide the fact that the last 2 shots in my piece was inspired by Gopher Broke!...its not easy to take something so well animated and make it better.I Just loved that shot in particular (of gopher broke)...didnt wanna change stuff and ruin anything cause it was all working perfectly together,so tried my best to get to that standard.

hope you enjoyed all the other 22 shots

BlueGraph

10-25-2006, 07:55 PM

its not easy to take something so well animated and make it better

Better than Blur??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

BGLooney

10-25-2006, 08:11 PM

I dont know, she just doesn't feel old enough.
hahaahah...just kidding man. She's wonderfully ancient, the ole lady could have dated Moses. It was awesome watching you add decades to that woman with evolved passes of animation. Personally I love the "Gopher Broke" Inspired climax. I think one of the benefits of a student reel is your allotted freedoms to pull reference from everywhere. Especially with a 6 month deadline and a 1 man crew. For your first reel, under those constraints, I'd be exceedingly proud if I were you.
Overall I think it's obvious you took great care in every frame of animation and you left no element unattended in the whole production.
I've seen "Good animation" That audiences had no draw to. Everyone who has seen this short in my presence has laughed there asses off, and I think that's a great compliment to its entertainment value.

I wish i could throw in a crit to make this not a total fluf job.

Your not an attractive man. try to work on that.

Beautiful work overall man, keep pushin and your stuffs gonna get even better.

LloydColaco

10-25-2006, 08:12 PM

Better than Blur??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

wooooohhh, I didn't say it was better than 'blur's.....cause its obviously not, what I meant is that its not easy to try and create a shot with the same quality of 'blur studios', so I just wanted/tried to get as close as I could.

Hope I made more sense this time...forgive my english, its not great :)

BlueGraph

10-25-2006, 09:59 PM

wooooohhh, I didn't say it was better than 'blur's.....cause its obviously not, what I meant is that its not easy to try and create a shot with the same quality of 'blur studios', so I just wanted/tried to get as close as I could.

Hope I made more sense this time...forgive my english, its not great

Ah ok! Sorry for the misunderstanding!:) Anyway, I really like the mood!

carlosvk

10-25-2006, 10:36 PM

Lloyd,

I think that the short shows your great skills in animation. I think that the highlight of this short is the fact that you were able to show old age in this character and the transformation into a young dynamic dancer. You studied this person and we can see and feel the pain and slowliness in her movements. And after all that is what character animation is all about, knowing your character and being able to pull out a performance that the audience will believe.

You should use references for animation but rotoscoping isn't very original.

I just want to isolate this phrase from the context of this conversation because rotoscoping is in fact a reference for the animators. 50 years ago Disney animators were already rotoscoping human motion in order to protray realistic characters. And 50 years later Weta animators were rotoscoping Andy Serkis in numeros shots for the Gollum Character in the Lord of the Rings. Animation has a huge range of techniques and I think is wrong to say that one works better than another... the best technique is the one that works better for a specific situation.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Manter

10-26-2006, 12:06 AM

I just want to isolate this phrase from the context of this conversation because rotoscoping is in fact a reference for the animators. 50 years ago Disney animators were already rotoscoping human motion in order to protray realistic characters. And 50 years later Weta animators were rotoscoping Andy Serkis in numeros shots for the Gollum Character in the Lord of the Rings. Animation has a huge range of techniques and I think is wrong to say that one works better than another... the best technique is the one that works better for a specific situation.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Carlos, if you read what I wrote, I never said that there's a technique better than another, this is just your wrong deduction and doesn't make sense in this context. I was the first to say that reference should be used in animation.

What I actually said is that rotoscoping frame-by-frame the whole Blur shot (cameras included) without adding a personal touch is not very original, it's just keyframing poses on every frame that another person thought.

I understand that students from the same class usually defend each others and it's normal. But before clarifying something read carefully. I wrote that because Lloyd explicitly asked for critique and I'm sure that if he sends the short to a studio (or for example where I work) there will be someone else to notice it.

crazyCG12

10-26-2006, 04:46 AM

I dig the style of your Animation, I taught the 'Lip sync' ex was Awesome

Keep up the good work.

Zack Attack

10-26-2006, 06:08 AM

despite the other comments it thought it was every entertaining and funny. I guess it would be on the safe side to just come up with ur own stuff, not that you didn't its just a general statement.

GoldenCamel

10-26-2006, 07:03 AM

not bad, animation could have been a lot better. And copying a shot from another short? only says that you werent creative enough to come up with your own idea, not a good message to send out, specialy for potential employers.

BGLooney

10-26-2006, 07:09 AM

not bad, animation could have been a lot better.

Could you possibly be a lil more vague? That's dangerously close to a critique only it ended right before the constructive element.

Lupin500

10-26-2006, 07:16 AM

Hi Lloyd and my congratulations!:) Personally I don't really care what they say about the blur shot thing, I watched ALL the short (not 2 shots) and I really enjoyed it! It was funny and well animated! I know how hard the 6 intensive months can be and you did great! Good luck!

Giorgio, 3D58

Igo

10-26-2006, 07:23 AM

Comparing Disney and Weta taking original footage they developed and utilized is different than practically tracing someone elses hard work. Rotoscoping for your own work includes you or your friend acting it out so it becomes yours. Not only that, but no animators work is perfect. Rotoscoping someone elses work is like traing comics. It's a copy of a copy. You ever run a photograph through a copy machine, and take that copy and throw it through again?

The animation is good though, the overall look is better, great overall package, but this idea seems strikingly close to a past VFS reel of an old man dancing around in his apartment.

Good luck on the job hunt. Lota good competition coming from your class.

in4it

10-26-2006, 09:09 AM

hmmm....been reading this thread, and with all due respect to the people who have posted, I just find it funny to see how some are ready to attack anything thats good!

They certainly have a point, but its sad when all they see is the one negative thing (ie your reference that you used for ONLY 2 shots) .

Its good that you were honest about your work.

well here's my opinion,

In just 6 months of production you've got a short film with a great design (set and the main character), a cool original story which dosen't drag at all, I love the lighting and the mood,

you character animation is lively/ expressive, the timing is spot on / good character arc / smooth animation. Love your choice of music and I admire the effort you put in the overall aesthetic.

As a whole its a very entertaining short, in comparison to other students work (lately) -This is definitely one of my favourite 'student's piece'

'Golden Camel'...all you do is criticise others - no hard feelings; but would love to see something you've worked on! :)

Lloyd ...be proud of yourself!!

best of luck.

Hydrox3

10-26-2006, 09:02 PM

I totally agree with 'in4it' but besides that,
You did a great job in making a old fat granny move, especially with all the wiggle and giggle. Its not easy to animate a FAT character, but you pulled it off.

A very 'entertaining & funny' short.

p4roxysm

10-26-2006, 11:11 PM

HAHAHAH!!! Seriously, it's been a while since I've actually "lol'd" over a short animation like this. Great job! I love the pacing, the music, rendering and most importantly, the poses. Very strong! Keep it up man...

neon22

10-27-2006, 07:15 AM

Hi Lloyd,

It's a very strong Animation piece with Brilliant pacing (just as 'p4roxysm' Patrick quoted)
Love the dance moves :) Wicked animation on the shoes!!
You also are a pretty cool artist.

To sum it all up - AWESOME!

I want a sequel :)

TehYeh

10-28-2006, 04:38 AM

your granny is hot, when can i meet her? glad it worked out very very sexy, love the bouncing (censored) ....... :)

and i smell player haters among the midst......

algharaf

10-28-2006, 04:51 AM

wooooooo so f*****************88en cool i realy like it:applause:

GoldenCamel

10-28-2006, 08:09 AM

oops, wrong post. sorry

Retrolimo

10-28-2006, 08:54 AM

Sure, watch Ice Age 2!

Really GoldenCamel? Wooo!:) Which part you animated?

FracoisBennet

10-28-2006, 09:06 AM

Really GoldenCamel? Wooo!:) Which part you animated?

Retrolimo: Don't believe him, it's b******t and he just edited his reply... (loser)

Lloyd: I liked your animation, it was really entertaining!:thumbsup: Best luck!

GoldenCamel

10-28-2006, 11:30 AM

Really GoldenCamel? Wooo!:) Which part you animated?

oops, wasn't suppose to say it. nope, never happened.

Oh yeah, FracoisBennet, being a loser is so much fun, lifts the pressure off your shoulders and lets you to be foolish and hungry again, everyone should try it =]

Myzer

10-28-2006, 05:32 PM

Hahahahahahaha
This film is really yucky and funny as hell!XD
I love it:thumbsup:

pommegenozide

10-28-2006, 09:21 PM

Hey, Lloyd ... just one word, "Good job".

I don't think I will like it in the first place (that was way long time before, when you only have rough idea) since it looked so cartoony in the first... but you know? By the time I watched the finished acting scenes (early in the short), I can't deny that I changed my mind totally, the expressions of this old granny, suffering, curiousity and surprise, are very well made and blend well in the area between realistic and cartoony style.
Later in the short, well, she's sexy and that's creepy (to me), but the the animations are still decent, just creepy... :twisted:

------------------------------------------------------

About Lloyd's decision to rotoscope and those many "professional" comments about the issue, allow me to say something about it, not as Lloyd's friend or classmate, but this is the idea, the reason that I believe in... and that keeps me on track of what I'm working on...
I understand and respect the fact that many of the comments were made in good will and as you can see that Lloyd accepted all of your comments with gratitude. I accept the fact that many pros in places would be able to catch those 2 shot within a glance, but would they really care, since this short has shown lots of Lloyd's animation skill, and as I remember someone used to give comment in "The Climber" thread saying most animation students should care less about everything else but the animation, I don't like that idea, but that can be implied that when you apply for a job, wouldn't they care more about your ability to animate the whole piece than the issue that you rotoscoped one or two shots?
And for me, as an artist in practice (or artist-never-be), I believe in the audiences more than professionals, I've seen a lot of people (or I'd say artists) who only be able to see thing in particular way than to appreciate the things they see, lots of animator friends said when they go to the movies, all they can see (or I'd say "most they can see.") is only technichal stuufs, arcs, models, lighting, mistakes , etc. They lost their sense of a general viewer, they never hear the musics nor do they care more about the whole piece than just one mili-second of mistake.

I'd say it's a pity... that a lot of people forgot who the real "audiences" are and only learn and listen from people marked as "Professional", I'd say if I show this piece to my kid cousins or even my 22 years old brother, they'd probably like or dislike this piece, but the comments Lloyd'd recieved from them would be way more common, but more useful than the comments from geeky kind (like us) who only see thing in a very narrow way... I don't wanna say more since I can go for pages about this... so I'll end it here. Just one thing as a general audience and an artist who care about audience, I don't care much about what the professionals say, they're worth listening to because they can help you improve you pieces, but in the end, the applause of the audience is the thing that count... so be an artist who feels everything by heart.

-----------------------------------------------------------

PS. Lloyd, I admire you as a person capable to do anything you want, you're not a "JUST ANIMATOR" like many people out there.

Retrolimo

10-28-2006, 09:43 PM

pommegenozide: I understand what you mean but at the same time I understand that if I decide to post on this forum and aks for critique I should know that most of the users are pro and they will probably post harsh but true comments. If you are looking for general audience without technical knowledge or experience maybe this is not the best place to show your work.

GoldenCamel: I am confused... Is it true or false that you worked on Ice Age 2? Can you be more specific?

pommegenozide

10-29-2006, 01:48 AM

Retrolimo

10-29-2006, 04:03 AM

Retrolimo: I understand what you said about pros givin' harsh comments, I do need them too if I'm going to post something here on CGTalk, no doubt about it, and I'll respect reasonable "technical knowledge" comments... so my point is if one would like to give a technical about this piece, shouldn't it be something like "I think your rotoscoping still need some fixes, as you can see in Gopher Broke ... blah blah blah..." more than "This is not original..."? Because I believe that being original or not is about artistic style, or am I wrong?

Didn't mean to offend anyone or create a flame here, and I'm honor that you (or other pros here) spent your time to come argue with me, which I to will be a constructive one.

With respect.

I didn't write only "technical knowledge" I also said "experience" because I believe that after some years of experience on the field you know if you should share something very similar to another animation... If you still decide to do it you should be ready to accept the comments even if they are not exactly "technical". It happens often, nobody can be perfectly objective (we are humans not robots) and we all have different opinions. This is a free forum and we can say what we think.

But I also believe that superficial and vague comments like "not bad, animation could have been a lot better" certainly don't help!

You wrote a word that I would like to point up: "respect". It's ok to post a negative feedback but we should all consider that the student/person behind the work spent a lot of time and money to do it. We should all keep this in mind before posting and try to be respectful and professional in our critiques.

pommegenozide

10-29-2006, 10:27 AM

Retrolimo: Thanks for your time, it has been "Constructive" (as far as I feel) , if I have anything else I will message you.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Ladies and gentlemen, I apologize for occupying the forum space for a while, please continue to enjoy your show, "Granny's Grove": a VFS animated short by Lloyd Colaco !!! :applause::applause::applause:

Igo

10-29-2006, 10:58 AM

pomm, the problem is when a hopeful employer sees this, if they catch the rotoscope from gopher broke, it put's all that much more question on the rest of the piece. They could think the whole piece is a chopped up version of all his favorite shots from various pieces, some they might not know of, even if it's not. No reason to put your hopeful employer in the way of doubt, because it will only do anything for you but good.

As for pleasing your audience, it's all peachy keen making a few people laugh, but if it doesnt get you a job you're gonna have a lot fewer chances of doing so again. Not saying this wont get him a job, Im just saying dont get in that mind set if you're unemployed, because it's just another form of blissful denial, like calling all people who critique honestly "haters."

pommegenozide

10-29-2006, 11:26 AM

I agree because your explanation doesn't create confusion at all, this sounds clear and with clear explanation I have no objection.

Not saying this wont get him a job,
Mmmm... he won't get a job, oops! kidding, my friends.

Im just saying dont get in that mind set if you're unemployed, because it's just another form of blissful denial, like calling all people who critique honestly "haters".
No no, this is really what I believe... I understand what you said and never ever had that blaming habit, and if that did sound like it, I'll wait until I got employed (says 10 years, haha) before speaking out my POV again :) Guess beside practicing more about arts, I'll have to improve my English writing skill too. :)

Thanks, David.

GoldenCamel

10-29-2006, 02:08 PM

I'd prefer harsh but true critiques over sugar wrapped comments, the whole point of posting your work is to get feedback on HOW TO GET BETTER, if what you get is ten pags of "Oh I love your stuff, oh your short is amazing and etc. etc."..sure it's gonna make you feel good but no help in making you a better artist.

Because most pros here only have a few minutes, repeat, few minutes a day to surf the forums, they spend all day behind a computer and the last thing they want to do when they get home is to sit MORE behind the computer. there's no time to write nice little essays that both sounds good and has good points within, they just say what they feel is wrong and thats it.

Retrolimo, sorry, can't say. (also, i would appriciate it if you could edit your earlier post and unquote me, thanks)

Retrolimo

10-29-2006, 09:10 PM

Sure, watch Ice Age 2!

Retrolimo, sorry, can't say. (also, i would appriciate it if you could edit your earlier post and unquote me, thanks)

Edit my post? Unquote you? But you wrote it!
And every artist can say if he worked on a project! There are no legal problems about that and Ice Age 2 is already out (and soon in DVD) so what you wrote doesn't make sense. Unless it's false...

BGLooney

10-29-2006, 09:17 PM

Scrolling through this thread I don't think I've seen hardly a single challenging crit that addressed animation. What a shame. Just continued reiteration on a debate about 2 shots that everyone knows were derived from "Gopher Broke". I'm not even going to restate my opinion, I posted it a while ago (as did most of the people still debating). Since this impass seems to have less and less to do with this short I suggest people just email each other.

as for "Golden Camel". You remind me of the overly self confident physical trainer trying desperately to hide his own pot belly. Obviously crits shouldn't be ego enhancing fluff, but they should also be constructive and descriptive. I've yet to read one of your crits that demonstrated any knowledge of the finer points of animation. Just vague lofty generalisms. I've read where several members have asked you to post so that your credibility could be established. Until I see something you've done I suggest no one gives your comments any credence.

And I think the wizards curtain fell when you said you "Couldn't say" about Ice age 2, like it's some black bag C.I.A. op. or something. hahaha...dude, it's almost on DVD! Be honest. Your still in high school aren't you?

MarcosJoannes

10-29-2006, 10:04 PM

nicoGuy

10-30-2006, 03:08 AM

as for "Golden Camel". You remind me of the overly self confident physical trainer trying desperately to hide his own pot belly. Obviously crits shouldn't be ego enhancing fluff, but they should also be constructive and descriptive. I've yet to read one of your crits that demonstrated any knowledge of the finer points of animation. Just vague lofty generalisms. I've read where several members have asked you to post so that your credibility could be established. Until I see something you've done I suggest no one gives your comments any credence.

And I think the wizards curtain fell when you said you "Couldn't say" about Ice age 2, like it's some black bag C.I.A. op. or something. hahaha...dude, it's almost on DVD! Be honest. Your still in high school aren't you?

Wow, I like BGLooney, Go Looney, Go Looney...goooo
That Camel Don't know S****

GoldenCamel

10-30-2006, 04:51 AM

oh yeah! Still in high school indeed, highschool of animation, and always will be! =]

in4it

10-30-2006, 06:28 AM

oh yeah! Still in high school indeed, highschool of animation, and always will be! =]

Hahahhaa now we are sure that "GOLDEN CAMEL" is a KINDERGARDEN Kid:)
Dude if i were you, I'd keep my mouth shut and ANIMATE (or in your case...atlest try)

"MooingCow" (IGO/Know it all!) this thread is not about employment!, nor is it bout rotoscoping or WAR(Sorry Bush fans)...

...It's about "GRANNY'S GROOVE" and IMO it rocks!

GoldenCamel

10-30-2006, 09:23 AM

well, come to think of it, if i'm in the highschool of animation, that would place me in the kindergarden of film-making, so in a sense you're right!

By the way, "in4it", your title says "animator", could you show me something that you animated?

staniol

10-30-2006, 10:39 AM

this is astonishing piece of work, amazing character animation, u really did nice work, u know am i say? :thumbsup:

Capn_Camo

10-31-2006, 01:27 PM

Man, so many people are splitting hairs on this forum and picking this movie apart for having a few seconds of animation which look remarkably like a part of the Blur Studios film "Gopher Broke", but they're missing the point. Mate, you have made really clever animation. It's clean, the movements are sharp and above all, it makes an audience laugh. You should be proud of this!

Top notch :buttrock:

in4it

11-03-2006, 12:04 AM

By the way, "in4it", your title says "animator", could you show me something that you animated?

Well Mr.Camel, I am not here to prove myself to anyone (since I've been working for a while)... nor am I here to give vague comments that dosent help anybody. This is probably my last reply/post to you since it's just a waste of my time.

Just here to check out the latest demo reels.

Igo

11-03-2006, 07:16 AM

"MooingCow" (IGO/Know it all!) this thread is not about employment!, nor is it bout rotoscoping or WAR(Sorry Bush fans)...

This killed all the credit you never had. Im pretty sure he made this demo in the hopes of getting employed.

in4it

11-03-2006, 11:00 AM

This killed all the credit you never had. Im pretty sure he made this demo in the hopes of getting employed.

Hehe...what Credit?? :) anyways, Iam pretty sure CGtalk is NOT the gospel of employment!
You seem to have missed the point! I stated that "this thread is not about employment!" and NOT 'why' he made his demo

BuendiaCG

11-04-2006, 11:59 PM

Hehe...what Credit?? :) anyways, Iam pretty sure CGtalk is NOT the gospel of employment!
You seem to have missed the point! I stated that "this thread is not about employment!" and NOT 'why' he made his demo

well... I'm sure he didnt posted to get pointless arguments and no constructive feedback.

Paul McLaughlin

11-05-2006, 10:44 PM

Ignoring my personal hatred of the tired cliche "LOL old people don't do that!!", as well as the semi-pointless bickering in this thread. Here is my crit:

There is no story in your short. I know, I know, it's only a few seconds long, but that really doesn't even matter. A story simply put is: A character wants something, and is having trouble getting it. It has been the basis for pretty much every single story ever told.

What conflict does she encounter in this short? What trouble is she having getting it? She wanders upon a box of magical shoes, puts them on, then dances around. Why? What purpose does this serve? Where is the gravity of the situation?

Once you answer what the conflict is, you need to ask yourself about what changes in this story? Does she suddenly find herself motivated to take a hip hop class at her local senior center? Does a talent scout see this display and cast her in a broadway musical? Does she finally remember what it used to be like to have youthful vigor? These all seem kind of dumb, but I just pulled them off the top of my head. Hopefully you get the idea though.

The big mistake people here make, is assuming that a humorous situation automatically makes a story.

PS- if the point of this short was not to tell a story, and just display your animation skills, why even bother to make some sort of situation out of it? If you had just animated the granny character dancing around on a white background, it would have achieved the same (if not better) effect.

As it stands right now, This animation is what it is; A well animated/light/textured piece with solid camera work and direction. It's just not a story.

KOKE

11-06-2006, 12:00 AM

>> Looks like I replied to the post above reading his un edited version, but I will still leave my original response here because it explains a bit of the animation at VFS. :) <<

The problem about making good deep stories at VFS, is mainly because of the time frame.

Everyone starts working on their personal projects in term 4.
Animators most of the time spend term 4 learning how to build their characters and environments.
They have to model them, rig them shade them etc, and they do all this without being modelers.
Then in term 5 they are already into their animation work, but sometimes they still need to keep adjusting their models, environments, lights etc.
So basically they have a chunk of term 5 and then term 6 (the shortest of them all, and the one you need to render everything) to really animate.
The pressure is big and its not easy to come up with a complex story, good animation and good overall look.
Most of the times stories have to be shortened in order to finish them in time.
I agree that the story could be improved, but the idea is still nice and work as some sort of comedy sketch.
People not always realice that VFS is a one year program, where students come without any previous notion of animation, modeling or VFX.
Of that year we oficially get 6 months to work on our first demo reel ever, and of those six months we have even less time in reality.

I undestand anyway what you say about story telling, so dont get me wrong I am just trying to explain why some of VFS reels are like they are.

JK.

:D

Paul McLaughlin

11-06-2006, 04:48 AM

I agree that the story could be improved, but the idea is still nice and work as some sort of comedy sketch.

I understand what you are saying, but it would still be very easy to add in some story elements.

Building on my previous idea about the possiblity of this being a story about her dealing with old age. You could have a quick shot of her watching a kid running around being youthful and happy. Or, if you dont wan't to model/animate another character, you could have her stare longingly at some sort of object that would remind her of a more vibrant time. Then stumble on the shoes, dance around, and finally rest at ease. Somehow showing her remembering what it was like to be young. All of this would only require a simple shot at the beginning, and some minor tweaking of the ending.

I am only really giving this crit because I feel that the original idea of the animation was to at least tell some sort of story. If not, why even bother doing the whole thing in story format?

LloydColaco

11-10-2006, 09:01 AM

Carlos, CrazzCG12, Zack Attact, Lupin500, Pomme, Somme, Hydorx3, Patrick, Neon22, Koke, Staniol, capn_camo, Francois Bennet, Hsu Sheng Yi, hamaney, Alan, joshua, Sachin3D, yuta - I'm glad you guys like it and were entertained... thanks!

BGLooney,In4it - Thanks, you guys seem to know a lot about animation and the struggle to finish everything within 6 months.

Mooning cow - your a lil confusing!!? besides all the critic, you say that my animation is good...and at the same time post in someone else's thread that my animation is NOT good....
..hmmmmm... you know know what I'm talkin about!
Anyways, considering the 'Hypocrisy' ....I don't know what to think of your opinions :)

LloydColaco

11-10-2006, 09:41 AM

Teh - Thanks, Glad that you find her hot :)

Neon22- sequel? hmmm, not too sure bout that :).... but thanks, good to know that you enjoyed it!

Squash-n-Stretch

11-10-2006, 10:11 PM

Ooooh...the one thing that I think we have all learned from this thread is do not attack a VFS'er, in any way, constructive or not! I have downloaded loads of VFS people's reels in the past but seeing some of them act superior to the rest of us really makes me disrespect them a little. Sure they can push poly's but don't dare critise them!

In fact, this is the second VFS reel in extremely recent history that has featured some controversy/disagreements, yes? Wasn't there an issue over a rigger not getting credit on a reel about a week and a half ago? I hope this isn't the start of a VFS plagiarising pattern.

Personally I'm going to download this before I pass judgement. The stills look really really nice , and I haven't seen Gopher Broke, so I'm looking forward to seeing it...just wish I had a decent internet connection :)

LloydColaco

11-10-2006, 10:28 PM

Squash N Stretch - Thanks, and hope you get a better connection soon. About attackin a VFS'er..well I honestly don't mind it at all...I posted here to get C&C, and I know that there are all sorts of ppl here...professionals & NON professionals... and then there are the ones who are here just to have fun, so I expect to get comments that help and some that dont.

All I can say is that I'm here to learn, and Im learning everyday...This is just the begining for me.

gonna start work on my next short soon.

LloydColaco

11-10-2006, 10:39 PM

I have downloaded loads of VFS people's reels in the past but seeing some of them act superior to the rest of us really makes me disrespect them a little. Sure they can push poly's but don't dare critise them!

-not sure who that was ment for, but I hope that was not targeted towards me cause I treat ALL pll from different races, places or schools with the same respect :)

alanf

11-10-2006, 11:38 PM

In fact, this is the second VFS reel in extremely recent history that has featured some controversy/disagreements, yes? Wasn't there an issue over a rigger not getting credit on a reel about a week and a half ago? I hope this isn't the start of a VFS plagiarising pattern.
Hi there! That rigger was me, but that issue was resolved after we spoke directly. To be honest, I overreacted and after reading his reply I must say it was just a silly misunderstanding on my part. No more, no less.

I hope you enjoy Lloyd's piece. I know he worked extremely hard and pulled it off remarkably well considering the time restraints, and I personally think it shows. :)

dutchtilt

11-11-2006, 05:48 AM

squash:

180 students graduate each year from VFS---you are talking about two reels----neither of which was the person who started the thread NOT taking c & c.

but im glad you didnt generalize. well done.

pommegenozide

11-11-2006, 08:12 AM

Squash-n-Stretch: Hi there, first of all, like your user-name...

I'd say that most of us don't think that we're better/higher than other people, we're not GOD... I'd even say we're just noobs, but even noobs like us have the thing called "LOVE" for this field of art. I didn't come out to defend my classmate... I just talked about my opinion towards things I love, things I believed... And I concern that superficial comments aren't useful at all, but for me... studied side-by-side with these people, if I saw something that should be fixed, if I had any comment, I'd be criticizing them way before they finished the piece, and that is my PROFESIONALISM, to me ... keeping friends' mistake until they post their stuffs and then criticize them in the public so you can looked clever/better is an act of cowardy/hypocrisy, and I believe thay many VFS students feel this way so normally you'll see more of normal comments from classmates.

About the attacking, hmm sounds over exaggerated ... just the critiques, the point that lead me to talk that whole lot of my opinion is that lot of people tend to conclude that any demoreel/reel posted here on CGTalk could only be watched from the POV of employer as well as the critiques to be received, that's fine in one context, but on the other hand an art piece can be watched and received comment as a whole piece that showcase a person's artistic skill and can lead to a dramatic improvement of the artist no less than technical issues, and that was my point in my previous post... come to the "Gopher Broke" topic, I understand the point of some persons bringing it up because they concerned about getting/losing impression from the employer, but if you really read the replies... they became more and more focused only on the rotoscoping part and ignore the qualities as well as mistakes that they can give constructive critiques to, some PROFESSIONAL even said this is a ripped-off piece... at that point it became personal and less constructive, if you read all those stuff you may find out that who are those "some of them act superior to the rest of us" ... (ADDED) I made the point because I'm still new and some people made me confused about our (artist) goal, "to make things that look good eventhough they're not always right or follow the book" or "to make things that look right and always follow the rule eventhough they're not always good" ... sometimes it's confusing whether we're trying to please the audiences or the professionals?

I decided to make this last post about the issue, concerning that my previous reckless action may cause problem to the name of VFS and it's good students, if the way I love arts is STUPID then I just want you/or anyone else to blame only me.

Cheers.

PS. About your internet connection issue, it indicates that Lloyd should make another smaller preview/streaming version so more people would have easier accesses to "Granny's Grove", Hey! Lloyd ... do you hear that? :)

alanf

11-11-2006, 08:21 AM

PS. About your internet connection issue, it indicates that Lloyd should make another smaller preview/streaming version so more people would have easier accesses to "Granny's Grove", Hey! Lloyd ... do you hear that? :)

I'm not Lloyd, but I thought I'd point out that Granny's Groove happens to be up on Google Video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3039013814643776719&hl=en). hehe

Igo

11-12-2006, 05:37 AM

Mooning cow - your a lil confusing!!? besides all the critic, you say that my animation is good...and at the same time post in someone else's thread that my animation is NOT good....
..hmmmmm... you know know what I'm talkin about!
Anyways, considering the 'Hypocrisy' ....I don't know what to think of your opinions :)

I oversimplified for two different topics. For a student animator, your thread, I said overall the animation was good. I dont ususally go too specific on crits because more people tend to justify their actions by making excuses for them, but I found the employers calling you out on possible questionable plagarism more important for you to note (and be prepared for) than specific little things you wouldnt have time to go back and fix, re-render, etc.

For the second topic, the rigging thread, I oversimplified in saying that the "animation was weaker" meaning it wasnt that strong in showcaseing the body rig, because really, there wasnt anything spectacular about the animation that would WOW them about the rig set-up.

Hope that makes sense and clears up my "hypocrisy" issue because I do have evil tendancies.

Todd2Harry

11-13-2006, 12:22 AM

As much as I hate the idea of a large dancing granny I must say nice job. And just because there is a striking resemblance to the Gopher Broke doesnt mean the animation is not splendid. Rotoscoping can and has gone horribly wrong before. (not saying that you did)

Over all I would give away 5 jars of mayonaise to see it again.:D

neon22

11-16-2006, 06:11 AM

Mooning Cow - Thanks for explaining..it all makes sense now!

}{()()]{ - Glad that you enjoyed it, thanks! ....and I like mayonaise too :)

LloydColaco

11-16-2006, 06:15 AM

Wow..that was all confusing! ...they said what I supposed to say..

Mooning Cow - Thanks for explaining..it all makes sense now!

}{()()]{ - Glad that you enjoyed it, thanks! ....and I like mayonaise too

neon22

11-16-2006, 06:16 AM

oops sorry, wrong thread!

Squash-n-Stretch

11-16-2006, 01:28 PM

Errr...what's going on in the thread? Has the thread starter got dual accounts or something?

Personally, having seen the movie, I don't know if this much fuss was worth it. Maybe if the rotoscoped shots were fantastic and much better than the others and made the film better on the whole, but they didn't. I felt the film was very average, with very average animation and a really poor story. Sorry, but there it is. The lighting in the still are really nice but this does not transfer to the movie, I wasn't a big fan of the lighting. I don't know why people made a big fuss of the rotoscoped shots.

Having said that, you have completed a short film largely by yourself in six months, which is very very admirable as not many of us ever get that far...and I hope you find a job soon.

NickCH

11-16-2006, 06:20 PM

Mooning Cow - Thanks for explaining..it all makes sense now!

}{()()]{ - Glad that you enjoyed it, thanks! ....and I like mayonaise too :)

That's a classic blunder right there. Forgot that you were logged in under an alias? Reading your self critique and reply to that critique on page 2 of this thread is quite amusing now " You also are a pretty cool artist.".

Anything for stars I guess........

alanf

11-16-2006, 09:07 PM

That's a classic blunder right there. Forgot that you were logged in under an alias? Reading your self critique and reply to that critique on page 2 of this thread is quite amusing now " You also are a pretty cool artist.".

Anything for stars I guess........

As the fellow student and friend that I am, I have known Lloyd personally for just over a year now, and let me say he is not the kind of person that would do such a thing.

You do realise that some 30 people at VFS graduate from the 3D program every two months, right? A ton of them, including myself, have never commented in CGtalk before and had never made an account until late at the end of the last term. Many of them register "just" so they can post a comment on their classmate/friend's work, and so if you check back on usernames of my classmates, you should find many have just registered some time in mid October.

Having said this, I claim no undisputable evidence of neon22 being a student besides that his profile states he lives in Vancouver (where VFS students obviously live). His registration date may be close to Lloyd's username, but if you dig back on neon22's history of posts (http://forums.cgsociety.org/search.php?searchid=4651967) then you will see clearly that the only VFS-related thread he posted on was Lloyd's. If it were truly him, he would have posted on some of his classmates' threads.

Oh, and speaking of making new accounts... nice of you to drop by back on CGtalk. ;) Last time I saw you was on XSIbase and you joined (http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=5;action=viewprofile;user=Nick_C) their community just so you could flame (http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=27565;start=0#msg178421) Lloyd's thread on Granny's Groove, once again with some pretty harsh non-constructive comments related to Gopher Broke (which have already definately been cleared up in this thread). If all you could comment on were 2 of his 24 shots, that should be more of a compliment, only if it weren't so full of venom.

LloydColaco

11-17-2006, 06:04 AM

That's a classic blunder right there. Forgot that you were logged in under an alias? Reading your self critique and reply to that critique on page 2 of this thread is quite amusing now " You also are a pretty cool artist.".

Anything for stars I guess........

heyyyy Buddy NICK CH welcome back.
boy you really have a lot of love for me!..thats cool.
You can go on doing what you do best, so...I'm not gonna defend myself with all the crap you throw on me (cause I got a life) ...All I can say is that stars are for kindergarden kids.

and bout dual accounts!??? I'm as confused as U guys.....hmmm....It really makes me wonder if it was actually U pretending to be someone else, just so you can get back ONE LAST TIME...

NOT blaming you though....just a thought,
I mean you really stooped when you posted on XSI BASE(my thread)....

and you know what...this thread is become a joke, so I dont even wanna try to make you see the light!

anyways Nice try...PEACE!

Squash-n-Stretch

11-17-2006, 11:21 AM

As the fellow student and friend that I am, I have known Lloyd personally for just over a year now, and let me say he is not the kind of person that would do such a thing.

You do realise that some 30 people at VFS graduate from the 3D program every two months, right? A ton of them, including myself, have never commented in CGtalk before and had never made an account until late at the end of the last term. Many of them register "just" so they can post a comment on their classmate/friend's work, and so if you check back on usernames of my classmates, you should find many have just registered some time in mid October.

Having said this, I claim no undisputable evidence of neon22 being a student besides that his profile states he lives in Vancouver (where VFS students obviously live). His registration date may be close to Lloyd's username, but if you dig back on neon22's history of posts (http://forums.cgsociety.org/search.php?searchid=4651967) then you will see clearly that the only VFS-related thread he posted on was Lloyd's. If it were truly him, he would have posted on some of his classmates' threads.

Oh, and speaking of making new accounts... nice of you to drop by back on CGtalk. ;) Last time I saw you was on XSIbase and you joined (http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=5;action=viewprofile;user=Nick_C) their community just so you could flame (http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=27565;start=0#msg178421) Lloyd's thread on Granny's Groove, once again with some pretty harsh non-constructive comments related to Gopher Broke (which have already definately been cleared up in this thread). If all you could comment on were 2 of his 24 shots, that should be more of a compliment, only if it weren't so full of venom.

*cough*

I do think he has been caught in the act with dual accounts. VFS students are over defensive of each other...it's like a fraternity. It's only this year's crowd though...last year's focus on their work more. judging by the reels.

I do disagree with that guy hunting you down from forum to forum. I eagerly anticipate your next film because I think you will have learned from you rotoscoping work ethic, and your next film will probably feature the most unique animation ever! I mean, look at the negative feed back your film has received...and only because of 1/12th of it! I know there is terrible pressure being a VFS student...but keep working towards the goal!

BuendiaCG

11-18-2006, 01:40 AM

Hey, I heard comments in this thread about dual accounts, been defencive and so and so, I really dont want to get involved in the problem, and stay neutral, but this is creating a negative reputation for vfs students, notice there is 30 people graduating every two months, I dont know if all the acusations and stuff people is saying about this thread and others is truth or not, I can only say that as a vfs student I do not feel that way. so please if there is a problem in a thread of a vfs student, dont generalize and say that about vfs students.
cheers.

Alvaro.

Igo

11-18-2006, 11:20 AM

I smell "bitter jealousy.". It's an obvious mistake with the "dual accounts" because anyone with an IQ above their shoe size could catch that mistake. It happens at work too and totally pisses me off.

Squash and stretch, spend a year straight 24/7 with 30 people that become family and tell me you wont become definsive. Seriously...

Squash-n-Stretch

11-18-2006, 02:10 PM

I smell "bitter jealousy."

Maybe from that crazy guy that follows him from forum to forum but certainly not me. A certain few VFS students seem to think that their whole college is 'teh awsum' and that the rest of CGTalk, if not the world, is jealous of them. Certainly not the case. I mean, I did congratulate him for completing a film, if you would like to read my post properly. But as movies like Final Fantasy proved, you can have the best visuals in the world, but if the story blows...

That's something I would be interested in knowing actually. Do VFS classes where a film needs to be made have a script class? If so, fire the lecturer. The last two completed VFS films I have seen on here have been very nice technically and obviously a lot of really hard work on the part of the student, but the story fails it.

It's an obvious mistake with the "dual accounts" because anyone with an IQ above their shoe size could catch that mistake. It happens at work too and totally pisses me off.

Wait, are you saying that he didn't do this, or that it is not relevant, or what. Sorry, the point just isn't clear.

And yeah, I am actually in college, and have been in college for three years, and have two more to go, with 30 plus people the whole time, but if they did something like post in dual accounts...I would be laughing too.

EDIT: Just checked out your site Mooing Cow. NIIIIIIICE :thumbsup: