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everlite
10-24-2006, 11:59 PM
Hey people,

I'm just starting a new composition, one of my problems in the past is that i always show finished work, well .. when it's finished, which really isn't a good idea. So this time i want help from start to finish :thumbsup:

Please see below ...

At the moment i've quite literally just comped the elements together, no lighting, shadows, fine tuning or the like just yet, i'm just trying to get a reasonable composition with working perspective. So any thoughts welcome.

http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/castle_web1.jpg

Cheers - Dave.

Datameister
10-25-2006, 05:11 AM
Nice concept, with good photos to start off with. Only problem I'm noticing that should be corrected before all of the lighting and fine-tuning is the angle of the bridge; it appears to slope downwards toward the castle on the left. I fully realize that this is a result of the perspective of the original photo, but it doesn't quite work with the current placement. If the bridge is horizontal, the eye level of the camera is right about flush with the level of the concrete in the foreground--which obviously isn't true.

I'd be interested in seeing the source photos separately. Any chance of posting them?

Keep up the good work! I'm looking forward to seeing this piece progress.

everlite
10-25-2006, 06:59 AM
Hey cheers. Though i'm struggling to understand what you mean, do you mean it slopes down to the right? The bridge itself is part of the element on which the photographer is stood. I'll post the photograph elements tonight. I plan on removing the people, not sure if you can see then very clearly, and having a train going over the bridge maybe.

Again please try to clarify what you mean, i want to get this one right for once :thumbsup:

Cheers - Dave.

everlite
10-25-2006, 07:28 AM
The main elements ...


http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/ccontact1.jpg

Duro
10-25-2006, 07:32 AM
Hi, my first comment here, so if something goes wrong, sorry... So, pretty concept, I like it very much. I'm just beginner, but i have 2 things:

1. The old buildings roof on the right ends directly on the edge of the hill, it will be maybe better to make it lower or higher.

2. I think, the verticals of the building on the right should be parallel to the build (where the bridge ends) on the left side, but i'm not sure...

Any way I like it, I wish, I could finish my first matte painting too....

Datameister
10-25-2006, 08:16 AM
I meant sloping down to the right, not left, sorry...but that's a moot point because I was wrong anyway. Disregard my previous comment. Have fun with this matte, and don't forget to post WIPs. :D

Kutkin
10-25-2006, 01:32 PM
Nice start, everlite.

The main problem is perspective of the bridge. The bottom of the bridge should be almost invisible...
If you notice, where you have your horizont line, the edges of the bottom of the bridge aren't going to it...
Because the foto you took the bridge from has horizont line lower than your matte.
You have there elements from photos with different horizont line, so you should fix at least the most obvious parts such as the bridge...

hope you understand and that it helps

cheers:)

JJASSO
10-25-2006, 05:09 PM
good star david, I thin the main issue here is the aspect, the square composition makes a little harder to create a nice flow , why don't you try it in HD or widescreen aspect it will give you weapons to make it more interestingm the integration so far is looking good maybe a little bit more of aereal perspective when you get to that point

everlite
10-25-2006, 06:39 PM
Hi, thank you all for your feedback, if i don't get this one right i'm going to go insane:) so cheers again.

jamesvfx:

Cheers James, i'm not quite sure if it' such a good idea but the mattes i've create so far i've always made then bigger than they need to be so when completed i can find the best crop and maybe have a little room to pan around with if animated. Any thoughts on this? what did you mean by aereal perspective?

Kutkin:

Cheers Kutkin, this bridge is really causing the biggest headache, the perspective of the bridge is correct as this is in the same element as the photographer and the forground path. What you can see isn't the bottom, i think its a pipe or some kind of support? does this look odd maybe?

Duro:

Cheers Duro, You're right about the first point, this still needs correcting, the idea of the bridge was that it passes by the building (a railway track) I imagine the stone/rock area to the far right is a little higher than the track and is slightly concealing the track behind. Not sure if this work. The edge of these rocks should be around 10-20 feet away from the building, not sure if this working.

Datameister:

Ok, cheers mate :-)

Cheers again all, i'm going to start working on this again now, so i'll post an update in a few hours and maybe you can continue to share your thoughts.

Cheers - Dave

Kutkin
10-25-2006, 08:33 PM
Ok, in the case the dark color under the bridge is pipe you could just make it more obvious.

I think good thing for the image might be revealing some deem gill under that castle on the right.
I mean to make the rock on the right side turn a corner to the right.

cheers

... looking forward for seeing your progress

everlite
10-25-2006, 10:45 PM
cheers Kutkin, i can see how the underneath looks that way, i'll give this some thought. What is deem gill ?

- Dave

everlite
10-26-2006, 02:16 AM
I went a little off path with this one, i'll return to the original composite shortly. Looks very 1950s war film like in colour and grain.

http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/castle_web2.jpg


Going back to the original i'm thinking about somehow placing a few houses to the far right where the wall is, i don't like how the wall cuts off with the base of the building. Also the wall to the left of the bridge is very linier, need to rethink this. I'm also going to keep the houses added to the above, so imagine them in the original maybe.

With the stone wall to the right, i'm not happy with how this is comped into the rocks, feathering it off just looks really crap, any thought on how i can intergrate this better?

Cheers - Dave.

Kutkin
10-26-2006, 03:03 PM
Sorry, I meant DEEP GILL - something like canyon or that type of thing.

The image now looks better, but the background seems very flat...

For the integration to the rock question:
Paint the castle, like it's sitting on the rock - some stone supports and stuff, maybe some bridge or stairs there.

keep it up, David

cheers

everlite
10-26-2006, 06:44 PM
Cheers Kutkin, the last image was just me off on a tangent. I'll give what you said some thought. How do you think i could solve the background, i want it to be set in a slight mist, which i think would appear a little flat with the mist becoming more faint as it gets further up. Not sure, what do you think?

- Dave.

Kutkin
10-26-2006, 09:32 PM
The flatness of the background is caused by hazing also the sky.
Make just brighter gradient on the bottom of the sky higher in the sky, let there some more color and make it darker.
On the hills in the distance I agree with that mist gradient. The hills need more contrast towards their tops.

cheers

everlite
11-04-2006, 03:52 PM
I came back onto this today, just trying different lighting ...

http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/c1_web.jpg

Any thoughts welcome.

Does it seem like the contrast is a little out?

Kutkin
11-04-2006, 08:35 PM
This lighting is very nice!

everlite
11-05-2006, 12:03 AM
Cheers mate, though i still feel it's far from looking right. I just can't seem to figure out what's wrong with it. I guess i'm just generically designed to hate my own work:sad: which can be good thing because it makes me try harder :)

timwarnock
11-05-2006, 12:25 AM
Hi Dave,

Just a few thoughts. I liked the color range that you had in your first post. All of your color corrections have really boosted the contrast leaving you with really heavy blacks. Taking that image I would make the necessary perspective adjustments and then make adjustments to balance your atmospheric perspective. You want to make sure that shadow values are consistent in darkness as they recede into the distance. Once you balance all of that stuff you can begin to play with the grading of the shot. Personally I would aim for photo real rather then stylized. Always make sure you leave color information in your blacks so the compositors have room to move if need be.
Hope that's of some help.
Cheers,
Tim

everlite
11-05-2006, 11:31 PM
Cheers Tim, one thing you said i didn't quite get:

"You want to make sure that shadow values are consistent in darkness as they recede into the distance."

By this do you mean keep the shadows the same level as they recede into the background, ie; the shadows in the forground are equally as dark as the furthest shadows in the background?

Yes, i agree, i will return to the original with a clean slate and try a different approach.

Thanks again. If you get a moment take a look at the animated beach/church i just updated:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3984050#post3984050

Cheers - Dave.

timwarnock
11-06-2006, 01:17 AM
sorry dave, let me clarify. Shadows will have less contrast and take on more of the color of the sky as they go into the distance. What I meant was that when you bring in several photos to work with they are all going to have different light and shadow quality. So it is important to unify them and to make shadows at equal distance from the camera, equal in value. Does that make more sense?

Dylan Cole (who is a much better teacher than myself) has a really great system for dealing with this that he covers in his DVDs. If you don't already have them I would highly recommend them.

Again I apologize for the confusion.

Cheers,
Tim

eirenicon
12-04-2006, 07:51 PM
I like the grading on it, very sunny and warm. My only real issue is with the sourced picture of the pier. Why did you leave the mooring cleats on the quayside? I can't imagine many boats come to dock there.

everlite
12-04-2006, 09:02 PM
Not everything is what it seems :) They were meant for fictional airships.

Cheers - Dave.

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