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I N F U S I O N
10-21-2006, 06:30 AM
I'm looking for new monitors. @ least 19 inch. I'm not really sure what to look for but I want something accurate and clear with nice resolution at a good price. What are some good brands and things to pay attention to?

gorosh
10-21-2006, 04:34 PM
I'm looking for new monitors. @ least 19 inch. I'm not really sure what to look for but I want something accurate and clear with nice resolution at a good price. What are some good brands and things to pay attention to?

I don't know your budget, but I'll tell you what are the best options if you want excellent picture and accurate colors.

First of all, at the moment the best displays are produced by NEC, Eizo, Apple and Lacie (although Lacie is just seling same NEC display at higher price), and maybe Philips. However, not all models from those companies are great, so I'll concentrate on best.

23" Apple Cinema Display, 23" Philips 230WP7NS, 21" NEC Multiscan 2190UX, and Eizo CE models (Color Edge).

They are all bigger than 19", but you said "at least 19" ". BTW 23" widescreen (16:9) models have height like regular (4:3) 20" models, but are wider. They all use S-IPS panel.

These are all great displays, although I would say that NEC XX90UX series is the best (theres also 19" and 20" model). However, I would advise you to wait for month or two, because NEC is releasing two new displays in November, and by December they should be in stores: 24" NEC 2490WUXi and 26" NEC 2690WUXi.

The prices will be ~1400$ for 24" model and ~1750$ for 26". They will both use S-IPS panel, and thus 24" model will be first 24" monitor to use S-IPS panel in the world. The technology used should be as good, if not better than one used in their xx90UX series, which means it will be one of the best displays ever (large number of professionals who work at color critical tasks recommend NEC 2190UX as best option).

If you're looking for superb display with great good color accuracy, you should look for S- IPS panel based one, since other types (like S-PVA for example) are not as good for color critical task (very important feature of S-IPS panels is color consistency at different viewing angles). However, if you're not doing prepress / print work, there might not be need for such color accuracy, and some S-PVA panel based display might suffice (like for example 24" Dell, Samsung or BenQ - I would recommend 24" BenQ in that case).

My sincere advice would be to wait for NEC 24" / 26" models, since both models will be top LCD monitors, S-IPS based, with great picture, color accuracy and quality (and 4 years warranty, not small thing to consider). They are definitely more expensive than other displays of same size, but are worth it IMHO.

If you decide to buy smaller model, I would suggest NEC2090UX.

gorosh
10-21-2006, 04:37 PM
I think this might be useful for anyyone buying new LCD display, but still deciding which size to get:

http://www.sunstorm.com/stuff/lcdsizes.gif

I N F U S I O N
10-21-2006, 07:40 PM
Gorosh, thanks for you EXTREMELY informative reply! I guess I should have stated that I have a very small budget. Im just a young college student and don't have much to spend at the moment. I was thinking like the best consumer display I could get for lowe cost ( $300 MAX) You listed some of the best screens EVER. I think ill have to wait a bit before I can afford :(

Does i t matter between LCD and tubes? I think tubes are much less money.

OH And I want something EASY on the EYEs I'll spend a lot of time looking at it doing web design and music productions.

maX_Andrews
10-22-2006, 06:11 PM
$290

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_e207wfp?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

I N F U S I O N
10-22-2006, 09:42 PM
$290

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_e207wfp?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

Dell monitors are good? I can't find any reviews on this one. I guess it must have just come out.

gorosh
10-23-2006, 01:39 AM
Dell monitors are good? I can't find any reviews on this one. I guess it must have just come out.

For 300$ this one is going to be good for you. It's decent display at competitive price. It should be fine, most displays at that price are lousy, but this one is okay.

lots
10-23-2006, 02:53 AM
Its not the best monitor out there, but its definately cheap for the size...

I N F U S I O N
10-23-2006, 04:01 AM
Okay, I'm going to think about this one you guys are suggesting. I guess display quality is a little more important than size so can you also make any good recommendations for 17" displays under $300?

I do like the fact that the dell that was shown to me can be mounted to a swivel from the wall. Now that I think about it that willl allow me more room for my music equipment. :)

ihavenofish
10-23-2006, 06:27 AM
the dell 20" wide "used to" use the same lcd panel as the apple 20" cinema. which asside from backlight brightness, made them essentially identical as far as colour and quality.

that said.. they arent the best screens out there by todays standards. i have 2 apple 20" screens and after a little over a year, both my backlights are going pink to varying degrees. unfortunately lcds cant easily be colour corrected for things like this, so while the screens are still more then adequate for working, they are useless for colour accuracy. when they were new they were very good. apple wants $780cdn each to repair them (the cost $799cn to buy new ones) so, im more than a little dissapointed. they have also been prone to burn in, but thats probably not representative of all screens. other than this, the screen is quite nice. response is good for a true 8 bit panel, and contrast is adequate. the lateast panels from dell and apple list different specs, however, that doesnt actually mean the panel has changed, as everyone seems to like to randomly make up specs these days.

17" screens are all at last check, 6 bit panels and geared only to low end markets. id venture to say 19" screens have gone this way as well. i dont think there are any true 8 bit 19" panels left. there are even 20" wides now that are 6 bit and decidedly low end.

the comments made about "super ips" i agree with. each panel type has its own drawbacks, but for colour accuracy, super ips is the best. panels like samsung's (dell) 24" shift colour and brightness drastically with viewing angle. panels like lg's 23" s-ips (apple, sony, hp, philips) and 20" (apple, dell, some acers) only darken slightly on angle, and maintain colour consistency. however, on "off angles" like viewing at extreme 45 degree diagonals (something that you really wont do sitting in front of it) the blacks will shift very slightly to red.

all of these panels use regular ccfl backlights, and will suffer from the drawbacks of limited colour space, which is why they are always considered inferior to good crts. there are new lcd's coming out (lg has a 26 and a 30) which use rgb ccfl backlights. these produce a vastly wider colour spectrum, and based on what samsungs rgb tv sets look like, stand to rival crt's in colour quality. HP will be using the 30" panel in their new 30" monitor due out next month. it will cost the same as apple's 30 and should honestly blow it away in terms of colour quality (the glass is still the same). these panels will also be colour correctable, so issues like my pink screens can be corrected out properly. hopefully this tech trickles down to the smaller cheaper screens soon.

the only real advice i can offer for you is to sit in front of the screen(the one you are buying, not one thats "similar"), hooked up to a real pc at the right settings, before you commit to buying it. if you dont like it, doesnt matter what the specs say, you wont like it any better when you get it home.

later

I N F U S I O N
10-23-2006, 09:28 PM
Maybe I should be looking at cathode ray tubes?

maX_Andrews
10-23-2006, 11:06 PM
NO, Crts are a step backwards. They hurt your eyes and are huge, and IMO have worse color than most LCD's I've seen and are not as sharp.

Yes, that dell model just came out. It is the cheapest display with that resolution. As for color, it will be so/so but not great. If you need really accurate color, you will need to spend at least $600 on a display, more likely around $1000

In order of quality, from least to greatest, I recommend the following:
dell e204fpw $289
dell 2007fpw $330
viewsonic 2025 $350
apple cinema display 20" $699
apple cinema display 23" $899
eizo s2410 24" display $1580
eizo ce24 24": display $1720

You can't get anything decent under 20" these days, and anything under 20" doesn't really have the resolution neccessary to work with today's computing environments.

ThirdEye
10-24-2006, 02:37 PM
have worse color than most LCD's

you're the first one i've heard that says so...

maX_Andrews
10-24-2006, 02:53 PM
The blacks in CRTs are never black. They are a dark off-gray that's usually either reddish or greenish, and it really bugs me.

ihavenofish
10-25-2006, 04:53 PM
"The blacks in CRTs are never black. They are a dark off-gray that's usually either reddish or greenish, and it really bugs me"

lcd's are certainly not black, and unlike crt's, they arent receiving light, they are emitting it, so you cant just dim the room lights. the reddish and greenish ive actually come to find as the video card's fault.

in any case, the issue with crt's now is that they have generally stopped making good ones. all you can find now are low end screens that probably wont make you very happy.

lcd is what your stuck with for now until better backlights and oled make their way into best buy. since that wont be for several more years, you should just go look at as many lcd's as you can and simply pick the one you thinks looks best.

later

jdips01
10-25-2006, 05:29 PM
Best bang for you buck, IMO! I purchased my first one 2 weeks ago and love it. So much in fact that I just ordered my second this morning. I will be running a dual monitor setup with 22" widescreens for around $700. The first one I bought was without the $50 rebate.

I am very curious though as to why there is not a lot of buzz on these. I know they are less than 2 months old and are not sold on most sites, but its predecessor is one of the best gaming monitors.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11163877&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=

gamedeveloper
01-27-2007, 05:51 AM
This might be blasphemy, but I can vouch for the fact that smaller HDTVs make great work displays. I've been using an HP LC3200N 32-incher (1366x768) for over a year as my primary display. LOVE IT! Image quality is exceptional. Pixel density is a rather low, but that just makes it easy on the eyes when pixel painting. ;-)

I sit about 4' away from the screen, and have auto-brightness adjustment and all that crap turned off...

I do need to color calibrate the display and also find out details about underlying tech (IPS, TN, etc).

Ice Czar
01-27-2007, 11:46 AM
The blacks in CRTs are never black. They are a dark off-gray that's usually either reddish or greenish, and it really bugs me.

1. not all CRT tech is the same
2. nor is the quality

both my backlights are going pink to varying degrees.

again going to the quality of manufacture

I'll give you an xample, both are CRT
2 years ago I got a 21" Veiwsonic G220fb its already showing signs on occassion of color casting, this is an apeture grille (what would be responsible for the grey comment above)
6 years ago I spent a small fortune on an Eizo F930 Invar Shadowmask, which is far blacker than any LCD Ive ever seen (max 2048 x 1536 @ 80 Hz) And it looks the same today as the day I bought it.

the other point here is eye fatigue is a derivative of the refresh rate, a good monitor and vidcard combo will see even a high resolution at 80Hz or better (varies with resolution), you get that headache at 60Hz with cheap monitors not at higher refreshes with good ones.

CRTs are a mature technology and awhile back top of the line monitors where available at cutrate prices, but few are being made these days LCDare the wave of the future and have displaced their production

but if your going to damn CRTs do it where it counts
they eat alot more power, put off alot more heat, take up alot more room, and cheap AP monitors are fuzzy compared to LCDs and brighter, and the really good monitors have largely had production scaled back or totally cut since the whole class has been shifted to a "value" status from their former "perfomance" days

but shadowmasks were the line\cad crisp choice, and are darker, to the point you might perfer an AP to watch a vid. And CRTs tend to be more flexible in resolutions without the extrapolation from the LCD native resolution required. I dare say youd get a crisper line at a high resolution off a good shadowmask then you would off a run of the mill LCD

whatever monitor (LCD or CRT) you get, try to put your eyeballs on it before buying
and generally speaking you get what you pay for in build quality and reliability\useful lifespan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture_grille
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_mask
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal_display
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active-matrix_liquid_crystal_display
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LCD_matrices
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-guide.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/response-compensation.html
by Oleg Artamonov (one very sharp cookie ;) )

gorosh
01-27-2007, 04:49 PM
Problem is, quality CRT monitors aren't produced for years, so they're really not an option anymore (sure, you could buy some used Sony Trinitron / Eizo / NEC on eBay, but for example, Trinitron tubes production ceased in 2001-2002, so you'll be buyingat least 3 years old CRT. CRT display tend to start deterioration after approximately 3 years (sure, if you're lucky they can last for a long time with little picture / color quality degradation, but that's lottery). CRT displays have many benefits over LCDs, but unfortunately you can't buy good CRT anymore - those models that are still in shops are lowest quality CRTs. On the other hand, there are several very good to excellent LCD displays on market at the moment, and even better one in production. In 2007-2008 there will be more and more good and quality LCD display (just take a look at the NEC 2690WUXi and its 92% color gamut). LEd backlight monitors are also coming (Samsung's LED LCD will be available soon, for ~2000$ etc.).

rBrady
02-06-2007, 02:03 AM
I havent seen anyone mention the HP LP2465 (24in widescreen LCD). It may be a bit expensive but I havent seen its equal. Actually, some of those NECs might be able to best it, But the point is its up there with the best I have seen. Its much better than anything Dell produces. I am as picky as they come and I am in love with it.



Pros
Amazing image quality
Amazing Support (if you have problems they will next day air you a replacement.)
Very friendly to use
Huge

Cons
Expensive
No HDCP
No composite, componant, or s-video inputs.

Kai01W
02-06-2007, 07:48 AM
NO, Crts are a step backwards. They hurt your eyes and are huge, and IMO have worse color than most LCD's I've seen.

This is simply nonsense. Internetboards.... worse colors than LCDs? Weaker blacks? These are exactly the reasons why in the professional video/film world lots of people stick to their ancient CRTs that now after years of usage start getting less sharp but at least produce decent colors and blacks compared to this this LCD crap.


-k

rBrady
02-06-2007, 01:44 PM
CRTs still have thier place. Dreamworks filled a small warehouse with new CRTs about two years ago because they were concerned that they wouldnt be able to buy new ones soon. They do all thier color correcting on crts because they can display beyond full AdobeRGB. LCD always have worse color.

Personly, I have an lcd, I like the size, the brightness, and these new LCDs color isnt too bad. 1920x1200 razor sharp is more importaint to me that the best color.

barrymcw
02-07-2007, 12:47 AM
I'm using the Dell 24" widescreen at home and I'm very happy with it. I borrowed a color calibration device from work and, for me, it looks great.

My thoughts on the "best color" battle:

If you're doing print work, get one of the expensive Apple monitors.

If you're not, "best color" is a bit....eh....

The vast majority of the work I do winds up on broadcast tv, NTSC. What NTSC really stands for, I don't remember, but "Never The Same Color twice" is what it's frequently called.

What am I getting at? I don't need perfect color on my home monitor. It needs to be close, but my renders are being laid off to tape/finished on a machine with scopes - a machine in an environment that is designed to output the "most accurate color." This accurate color is then going to be broadcast to tv's across the country, and it will look different on every single tv. Where can I watch the actual accurate color? In our editing bays on our calibrated screens. Everywhere else it will look...less accurate.

I'm being a bit flip, for sure and if you're not getting true blacks or whites or whatever, it's something to worry about. And for different jobs it will matter more or less...If I'm primarily a modeler, then I want lots of pixels and good contrast. Accurate color won't make or break my models. If I'm primarily a compositor, then I want damn good color.

As much fun as it is getting into the nitty gritty of which monitors are better and worse, when it comes to deciding whether or not to drop the extra couple hundred dollars (or whatever the amount in question) think hard about what you really need out of your monitor.

Or something.

gamedeveloper
02-07-2007, 05:34 AM
Hey, there's a guy selling a used L2335 on eBay for a very good price. Hopefully you'll see this before someone snaps it up!

http://tinyurl.com/2o9teq

He's also selling a new L3065. But his price should be $100 lower...

Kai01W
02-07-2007, 07:43 AM
If you're doing print work, get one of the expensive Apple monitors.

EIZO would be a better choice.


-k

gamedeveloper
02-08-2007, 02:10 AM
Here's a refurbished L1925 on sale for $160, FREE SHIPPING: http://tinyurl.com/2fct2c

I picked one up from the same seller about two weeks ago. It checked out fine.

johnsmithIII
04-12-2007, 07:14 AM
CRTs still have thier place. Dreamworks filled a small warehouse with new CRTs about two years ago because they were concerned that they wouldnt be able to buy new ones soon. They do all thier color correcting on crts because they can display beyond full AdobeRGB. LCD always have worse color.

This is misinformation, pure and simple. LCD panels are capable of color gamut and accuracy equalling that of the best CRTs, and have been for years. To whit:

October 2004 - Eizo ColorEdge CG220 - 22.2 inch, 1920 x 1200 and "nearly 100% of Adobe RGB"

June 2005 - NEC SpectraView Reference 21 LCD2180WG-LED - 21.3 inch, 1600 x 1200 and exceeds the Adobe RGB gamut (up to 105.7% Adobe RGB; up to 101.0% NTSC)

Now, granted these aren't cheap LCDs - you can expect to pay US$3,600 for the NEC, and US$5,300 for the Eizo (CG221 model from August 2006, similarly spec'ed successor to the CG220). The same can be said of a CRT capable of Adobe RGB gamut though - the Mitsubishi Diamondtron RDF225WG offered 97.6% of Adobe RGB at a pricetag of ~$5000+ in mid-2004.

walker46
04-12-2007, 07:37 AM
I'm looking for new monitors. @ least 19 inch. I'm not really sure what to look for but I want something accurate and clear with nice resolution at a good price. What are some good brands and things to pay attention to?
I think this link, (http://www.smartratings.com/search/19%22%20LCD/item/Search), might proved useful to you. It contains all the expert reviews for every item listed there. Hope it helps.

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