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twin891
10-20-2006, 12:54 AM
Hello everybody, I'm currently working on a PSP spec game and I was just looking for a place for critiques & comments. It's a first person shooter and I have modelled a few guns as well as a character. I haven't done much lowpoly work before so I have a few questions for the pro's ;).

These guns will be using 128x128 maps for textures and will be in the first person view. I do have lower poly versons for the enemy characters.

Here is an Ak-47 w/ texture & Comes out to 536 tri's
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/pspaktextured2.png

Here is a UMP @ 508 tri's
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/UMP.png

MP5 @ 564 tri's
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/mp5.png

M4 @ 416 tri's
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/m4.png

Desert Eagle @ 480 tri's
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/deserteagle2.png

And finally for the guns a Beretta @ 480 tri's
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/baretta3.png

A character @ 926 tri's (not completed)
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/character3.png


So my first question is... Is this to much for the PSP to handle? levels won't be ridiculously high poly and there won't be to many characters on screen at once, but is it still to much?
Also do I delete "back faces" on the guns when their in a first person view?

Thank you for reading! I appreciate any comments or suggestions you have!

MrDev
10-20-2006, 01:20 AM
I worked with nexis (aka PSMonkey) on Iris, before we dumped out project we had models around this spec for firstperson view ONLY worked fin and we achived a good FPS our problem lied in texture space

you need to understand you have 2megabites of video ram so dont exceed it or elce the game will crash ect... I saw your project on the qj forums, dont take any lip from those kids, just ignore it.

but like I said looks fine for FPS models

you do have that 20-30 frames per second leeway margin the psp's ghosting will even cover you if you dip down to 10fps, but try to keep it above 30. as for the models I sugest once you get to it, make the hand models and delete all the back faces THEN unwrapp them, you'll save yourself polygons and texture space, and if you dont want to save the texture space use that for higher quality textures.

you inspire the good in the homebrew community dont let that spirit die my friend.

twin891
10-20-2006, 02:09 AM
Wow, this certainly is a small world ;) I have seen you on these forums before and never realized you worked on Iris! It really is an inspiration for me to hear from you. I'll make sure we don't exceed the 2MB limit on textures.:) Also, I just was wondering if you worked in the industry or if you do this as a hobby.

Thank so much for your reply!

MrDev
10-20-2006, 02:57 AM
hobbyist, been doing game development since way back over 8-9 years ago trying to break into the industre after I finish my degree, a+ and other certs.

one thing I'd like to point out with textures, the player usualy will not get right up on another player, because they will usualy get killed... so even though they will be a main focus on the screen, textures on something like player models shouldn't get over 128^2 (unless you have the extra space)


when you UV your guns since optomization is key, make sure to mirror faces where possible and things that are closer (and take up more of the screen) get more deailthe farther off it is... lower its scale on the UV map.

We had some major texture crunching going on with our paintball game, we had tanker trucks, barrels, cable spools, and the texture cache was getting cramped :P

once again best of luck man you guys look like you have a prommising team there.

twin891
10-21-2006, 12:41 AM
Yea i've done quite a bit of UV mirroring on the Ak-47 to save space and it really is tough to notice at all. I actually seen your paintball game here a while ago and still have it as a bookmark on my browser for reference:thumbsup:. How did the project end up? Is it still in development now? Again thanks for the awsome tips, really appreciate it!

Does anyone else have any suggestions or comments?

nuclearbum
10-22-2006, 07:58 AM
you got wires for these? i'm actually interesting in knowing more about the specs of a psp too, hehe.

make sure you got some nice triangle strips going on the model (if you have a good exporter that utilizes triangle strips). this can help bring up the frame rate, so what you'll want to do is convert the mesh into triangles, if you haven't done so already, and then go through and make sure you have strippiible geometry. also you might want to avoid long skinny triangles, cuz how rasterization in some devices (maybe all, but i don't know for sure) works is it will draw a rectagle around the triangle and then fill it in checking each pixel in the rectangle, so if you have a skinny triangle that is like a pixel thick, it could end up making a large rectangle for a small amount of detail.

for the guns, i think you can reduce them a lot more and not loose that much quality. for the character, i think you can work on the hands a little, maybe try scaling down the thumbs so it's not so over exagerated. other than that, keep it up and good luck on the project!

twin891
10-23-2006, 03:44 AM
Alright I have some wires of all the weapons here for you to look at. The bottom version will be the one in the first-person view, and the top is the version the enemy will have.
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/akwire.png
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/m4wire.png
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/umpwire.png
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/mp5wire.png
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/berettawire.pnghttp://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/deserteaglewire.png

I have read articles about triangle strips before and it seems these are stripped pretty well (not sure though as I don't have much experience). As for the long triangles I think the ones on the MP5 barrel may be a problem. Would you recommend doing a loop cut in the middle? or is there another, better way to fix it?

Thank you for your comment, I'll re-shape those hands as well!

requiem2d
10-23-2006, 05:14 AM
You've got the shapes locked down for those types of poly counts, can't wait to see the rest textured :) Keep up the good work!

JustChris
11-12-2006, 06:45 PM
Wow, I saw your work first at the QJ forums, and those models are looking pretty sweet. I can't wait to see these actully running in the PSP hardware. Have you used an obj loader to test the models yet?

twin891
11-12-2006, 08:39 PM
Wow, I saw your work first at the QJ forums, and those models are looking pretty sweet. I can't wait to see these actully running in the PSP hardware. Have you used an obj loader to test the models yet?

Well thanks for the comment:D Grimfate is working on the MD2 loader at the moment, he has the model loaded, he's just having trouble with the textures. Hopefully he'll have it up and running soon.
I know its been a while since the last update, its just I've been really busy with other stuff. I promise I'll have some textures for you guys soon!

Tiberius
11-23-2006, 03:42 AM
Certainly seems like more fun than bowling. :D

If the player is always holding a gun, you might want to just model at least one of the hands to look like a fist since it will only be seen holding a weapon. That can shave off a few polys, though at under 1k, you're in good shape on the PSP (assuming you don't have legions of other people running about on screen at the same time, of course). You can also squeeze more detail into that ak-47 texture (assuming it isn't a WIP and you are already doing that).

I haven't spent much time on the QJ forums. Things over there seem a bit chaotic and the retina melting white background makes it a tough read (any way to change that?). I thought about posting over there, but I'm not sure what forum to post WIPs in.

twin891
11-23-2006, 11:35 PM
Yes, the hand will be re-done for the characters. I checked through QJ and it seems you can't change the colors so i guess you'd be stuck with the retina melting background. Usually the WIP's or projects are posted in the development forum(if you dig far back enough we also have our thread in there).

Ok I have the textures for some more guns, progress is comming slowly right now, hopefully it can pick up soon. I will try to squeeze in the detail for the ak-47, maybe some scratches in the wood?
AK-47
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/aktex.png


DesertEagle
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/deserteagelstamp_edited.pnghttp://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/deserteagle3.png



M4
http://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/m4stamp_edited.pnghttp://www.mts.net/%7Epartaker/m4screencap.png


Again, thank you for you helpful comments! I would appraciate any more on the texture progress!

ArchangelTalon
11-24-2006, 01:17 AM
I think you really need to push some detail into that deagle texture. It's got very bold and defined shapes in real life and that gun looks kinda rounded and shapeless at present.

The rifles are looking like a decent start but again I think you could still get a good bit more definition out of them with some small, sharp highlights - just 1px pencil tool stuff.

Your models really are solid but you could do a lot more with those textures :D

You could also probably remove the forward and right-hand-side facing polys of the FPS view weapons, too (I'm not sure how much, if any, of the stock will be seen either). They'll more than likely never be seen from your FPS view and you can also use the extra texture space and extra polys to make the visible parts look better :)

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