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View Full Version : Editorial: Sony PS3 to outsell Xbox 360, Wii: Japan publisher


RobertoOrtiz
10-15-2006, 03:51 PM
Quote:
"Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/finance/nm/tc_nm/storytext/leisure_japan_videogame_dc/20595032/*http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=sne&d=t) - news (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/biz/nm/tc_nm/storytext/leisure_japan_videogame_dc/20595032/*http://biz.yahoo.com/n/s/sne.html)). may fall behind rivals in the initial phase of the next-generation game console race, but is likely to grab the top spot eventually, Japan's top video game magazine publisher, Enterbrain, said on Friday. "

>>LINK<< (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061013/tc_nm/leisure_japan_videogame_dc;_ylt=ApUoyhq6esztt5cweVLHZFys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cjE0b2MwBHNlYwM3Mzg)

-R

EnlightenedPixel
10-15-2006, 04:37 PM
I think its a given PS3 will beat out the 360. But the Wii too? Even I think thats a bit of a strech. Though if theyre basing this on repeat history I guess my question would be -Has the PS2 outsold both the GC and XB1?

tozz
10-15-2006, 04:42 PM
I think its a given PS3 will beat out the 360. But the Wii too? Even I think thats a bit of a strech. Though if theyre basing this on repeat history I guess my question would be -Has the PS2 outsold both the GC and XB1?
By far, and then some.
http://www.vgcharts.com/page2.html
You can combine XBOX and GC, double that number and PS2 still comes out on top. This won't be the case this time around though, I can see Wii taking a very huge chunk of the pie, 360 is selling worse than the original XBOX did, but I guess Microsoft will do something to change that.

EnlightenedPixel
10-15-2006, 04:47 PM
Wow. Those numbers are a lot bigger than I thought they would be. Ok, yeah, I see their point now. Even if half as many people bought a PS3 because of its " super high price" ,which is now negated by the fact the XB360- HD-DVD addon is an additional $200, it would technicaly still sell more than both of the compedators individualy.

danshewan
10-15-2006, 05:00 PM
360 is selling worse than the original XBOX did, but I guess Microsoft will do something to change that.

I'm quite surprised by both of these figures - I thought, judging by the quality of the impending 360 releases and other stuff happening:

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/x06/x06-news-shocker-summary-203653.php

...that the Xbox 360 would perform well against the competition? Man, I need to start paying attention to what's happening......

P_T
10-15-2006, 05:58 PM
Wow. Those numbers are a lot bigger than I thought they would be. Ok, yeah, I see their point now. Even if half as many people bought a PS3 because of its " super high price" ,which is now negated by the fact the XB360- HD-DVD addon is an additional $200, it would technicaly still sell more than both of the compedators individualy.Not to mention if BD becomes the dominant format, 360 owners would have to fork out more $$ for a BD drive addon, though of course Sony would be in a worse position should the opposite happens.

Actually, 360 might be more expensive than PS3 considering it only comes with a 20gig HDD. With all the music, demo, videos, mods, games, expansions etc etc. available for download, how soon before you need to buy an extra 20gig HDD priced at $100?

tozz
10-15-2006, 07:21 PM
I'm quite surprised by both of these figures - I thought, judging by the quality of the impending 360 releases and other stuff happening:

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/x06/x06-news-shocker-summary-203653.php

...that the Xbox 360 would perform well against the competition? Man, I need to start paying attention to what's happening......
I think that's what Microsoft did wrong with 360, played the waiting game. They were first, by a year, and what have they done during that year? Hyped what is gonna come next. There's no doubt about that sales will pick up when some major titles are coming out, but the question is if it will be too late or not.

RuinedMessiah
10-15-2006, 11:27 PM
I think it's still a bit early to call anyone a true winner yet. Let's put it this way.

Microsoft has plenty of promises and yet has deluivered on very, very few. Everything slated is for 2007 and beyond which, given the situation is that they are no longer alone in the marketplace, is a rather poor situation to put yourself in. Especially considering most of the short term releases are multiconsole and on most of them, the PS3 version is turning out to be superior. Microsoft has spent their time catering to the hardcore and that's a bad idea in general to base your console around. There needs to be more casual games outside of Xbox Live Arcade for slack to start being picked up.

Sony has the hardware lined up and some nice games but most of their killer lineup is placed around the time of 360s killer lineup. While some parts of the launch lineup is impressive, other parts just feel rather tacked on and it's what Sony accomplishes in March-May that will determine it's appeal to outside of the casual market. Fortunately, both PSP and PS2 are selling well (well, PSP is flopping in Japan but still) so Sony has the ability to cater to the casual market until they are ready for the huge price difference to upgrade. Under Sony's development focus, there are 190+ games beinhg deved. Over 100 are for PS3 and over 50 are for PSP. Look at how many games that leaves for a console that the other two companies would have abandoned. PS2 is gonna be the unstopable cash cow for at least another year, if not more. Sony's best choice is trying to get as much money from PS2 as possible.

And finally, Nintendo. Their focus is, by far, the most casual gamer friendly which is a good thing. For me, what they needed was a Mario at launch (yes, this makes the fourth consecutive Nintendo console to launch without a Mario game that isn't a port) and I know several others who are waiting for that as well. Because the biggest thing they have for Wii, at the moment, is Zelda and many hardcore GCN fans are frankly pissed at Nintendo's treatment of the GCN fanbase in regards to this game. Nintendo also seems to be falling into the same bad habit that PSP did, and that is accepting ports of games with just a little Wii functionality added to the gameplay. Many of the launch games are merely Wiimakes and plenty more in the future hold the same fate. If anything, Nintendo will have more difficulty convincing casuals to buy a Wii if most of what they are dropping is simply Xbox and GCN upgraded titles with minigames and a new controller in tow. Nintendo needed to learn what made the DS suddenly go from being a rather doomed console (sales were drastically slow, PSP was outselling in all territories they were battling in, software sales were slow) to the handheld market dominator. That is unique titles custom made for the abilities of the DS and not simple ports or half-assed concepts (pokemon dash... nuff said). The unique stuff needs to come soon or I can see hype dying down for Wii just as quickly as it did for Gamecube.

All in all, all three have major holes in their longterm battle plans and I'd like to see them make corrections.

havokzprodigy
10-16-2006, 01:34 AM
Maybe they can give me tonights lotto numbers too? They seem to be able to predict the future.

heavyness
10-16-2006, 04:45 AM
the Dreamcast will never die, Nintendo will always be #1, and this Turbografx-16 thing looks hot...

anything can happen during this generation. it's easy to look at history and base you decision on numbers, but there is to many wildcards this time around.

we will see... one thing is for sure, gamers are going to come out of this war happy!

the-negative
10-16-2006, 12:01 PM
Way to early for a "winner", methinks, when the other 2 aren't even on retail yet.
Maybe some people can get a quick buck over idiots by predicting Japan's results, but as much as you'd like to believe Japan is much more saturated with casual gamers with lower software saturation rates- consoles sold would be much less of an issue there if you're comparing worldwide software sales.

ParamountCell
10-16-2006, 12:30 PM
the Dreamcast will never die, Nintendo will always be #1, and this Turbografx-16 thing looks hot...

anything can happen during this generation. it's easy to look at history and base you decision on numbers, but there is to many wildcards this time around.

we will see... one thing is for sure, gamers are going to come out of this war happy!

Quoted for agreement.

TrungDTran
10-16-2006, 12:39 PM
Hey all.
Well, let's think about the stats sells in all three consoles. Even though ps2 sold a lot more, however, it's probably because that console have only 2 control ports to plug in and play. Xbox and GCube both have 4 control ports. So, to play multiplayer mode, we got to buy two console to play 4 player mode. 4 console to play 8 player mode.
2nd, another thing that make ps2 sells more cause we must buy that console again after the dvd rom drive went dead. Probably because we played too much on it. Curse thos rpg games and among other genre. I know, Xbox probably broken down a lot more than PS2 and they did a poor sales on the marke too. Bad Xbox. I think Halo 1 and 2 saved Xbox in most cases. Of course, Halo 3 probably will save 360.
Xbox had cause microsoft a lot of money and 360 will just add more complaint and money to their financial debt. Wait... it did. When it came out, there was a call back. I love their graphic, just not their heavy box and technical problem.
Gcube is a little cute little device that aim for younger audience. So the sales of the console was like that for that reason. But we all have fun with that consoles no matter what age you are. WEE (WII) look promising and I'm going to buy that cheap console over the other 2. Unless my friends make me addiceted to fps or sport frenzy. Wait... that's what WEE is doing. Ok, nuff said.

pixelmonk
10-16-2006, 12:59 PM
Not to mention if BD becomes the dominant format, 360 owners would have to fork out more $$ for a BD drive addon, though of course Sony would be in a worse position should the opposite happens.

Actually, 360 might be more expensive than PS3 considering it only comes with a 20gig HDD. With all the music, demo, videos, mods, games, expansions etc etc. available for download, how soon before you need to buy an extra 20gig HDD priced at $100?

just like with the original xb, you'll be able to add extra hdds without paying a price like that.

ashrafazlan
10-16-2006, 01:11 PM
Hey all.
Well, let's think about the stats sells in all three consoles. Even though ps2 sold a lot more, however, it's probably because that console have only 2 control ports to plug in and play. Xbox and GCube both have 4 control ports. So, to play multiplayer mode, we got to buy two console to play 4 player mode. 4 console to play 8 player mode.

A multitap solves that problem ;)

P_T
10-16-2006, 02:52 PM
Of course, Halo 3 probably will save 360. Well, MGS4 is probably going to be the last time Sony can rely on the franchise to sell their console so let's see how long MS can play their Halo card. I have many friends who were rabid fans of Halo 1 but then more than half of them thought Halo 2 was so so.

We'll see what Halo 3 will bring, different gameplay or just better graphics. Halo Wars sounds intriguing as well though I'm not sure if it's for PC or console or both.

My guess would be:
1. PS3/Wii
2. Wii/PS3
3. Xbox360

RuinedMessiah
10-16-2006, 03:20 PM
I was never a big Halo fan. I will likely pick up the third just for completions sake but still. And RTS, however... well, let's just put it this way. If I wasn't already knee deep in an RPG development, I would be making an RTS. But I was disappointed by Ensembles last offering so... yeah.

For me, what's disappointing about 360 at this point is the lack of unique titles. I bought my Xbox for Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta, and Crimson Skies. All three have nothing even remotely related on deck in the future (although Silpheed looks promising, as always). I'm keeping the 360 at this point just for Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. Possibly Too Human (Note to Silicon Knights, if Baldur doesn't die at the end of Chapter 1, you have an enemy on your hands. Although a fairly unintimidating one but an enemy nonetheless).

MikeRhone
10-16-2006, 04:27 PM
Yaa... we will see. I wouldnt bet the house on a magazine having the power to predict where this war will end up. I personally am stoked on the Wii, and will likely buy a PS3 when the price comes down.

AdamHerbert
10-16-2006, 05:06 PM
I'm going to have to agree that it seems a bit early for predictions like this. Especially since the author seems to think the realistic graphics are what's going to keep the PS3 ahead of the competition. Sorry to burst your bubble but I haven't seen anything on the PS3 that looks any better than the 360.

P_T
10-16-2006, 05:23 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but I haven't seen anything on the PS3 that looks any better than the 360.Are you sure about that? I thought DMC3 fire demon boss level looks positively stunning, then there's that MGS4. We'll also see the differences between multiplatform games. Overall, some of the games shown for the PS3 looks better than some of the games during the pre-launched of 360.

ashrafazlan
10-16-2006, 05:29 PM
The best comparison would be Resistance : Fall of Man and Perfect Dark, both are first person shooters and offer online play.

Kentaro
10-16-2006, 05:35 PM
How could you be blown a way with MGS4, the graphics look good yes but it doesn't look next gen to me. XBox 360 has alot of games out now and coming out soon that rivals anything coming down the pipes for SP3. Thats not myth thats fact. Ask the experts online.

i.e. Gears of War, Halo-3, Splinter Cell, Assasins Creed, Prey, and so many others. All one has to do is go gametrailers.com and see both Sonys HD videos and Microsofts HD videos and see whose game looks hard gore.

The hardware and core support for the 360 is attracting the likes of Hollywood (Peter Jackson) and more soon trust me.

What will the Hobbitt game look like on the 360. "Awesome."

Sony left alot of E3 attendees scratching there head saying "huh."

P_T
10-16-2006, 05:42 PM
I'm comparing videos of PS3 and 360 games before the console was launched.

IIRC, Splinter Cell, Assasin's creed, R6: Vegas and many others are going to be multiplatform and so far we haven't seen any of the PS3 version so how can you say 360 HD videos look hardcore without seeing the PS3 version?

danshewan
10-16-2006, 05:54 PM
XBox 360 has alot of games out now and coming out soon that rivals anything coming down the pipes for SP3.

Because the Xbox 360 was released before the PS3.....?

Just guessing here, folks.

ExKArt
10-16-2006, 05:59 PM
Because the Xbox 360 was released before the PS3.....?

Just guessing here, folks.

Yeah alot of people seem to forget that. 360 has been out for about a year. How can you compare the 360 titles with PS3 launch titles, wouldn't an unbiased look at the games need that? I'm surprised this topic hasn't gone into a system war yet, it shows how professional or mature you guys are.

danshewan
10-16-2006, 06:05 PM
I'm surprised this topic hasn't gone into a system war yet, it shows how professional or mature you guys are.

Yeah, but I joined the thread really late..... there's still time......:D

pixelmonk
10-16-2006, 06:09 PM
Launch titles for any platform never seem to be as good as titles released a couple years down the road. Developers need some time to dig into the platform and make it work the way they want it to.. and that takes a few releases.

Dr. Nick
10-16-2006, 06:10 PM
I was never a big Halo fan. I will likely pick up the third just for completions sake but still. And RTS, however... well, let's just put it this way. If I wasn't already knee deep in an RPG development, I would be making an RTS. But I was disappointed by Ensembles last offering so... yeah.

For me, what's disappointing about 360 at this point is the lack of unique titles. I bought my Xbox for Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta, and Crimson Skies. All three have nothing even remotely related on deck in the future (although Silpheed looks promising, as always). I'm keeping the 360 at this point just for Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. Possibly Too Human (Note to Silicon Knights, if Baldur doesn't die at the end of Chapter 1, you have an enemy on your hands. Although a fairly unintimidating one but an enemy nonetheless).
While those early titles were great from a hardcore perspective, they didn't really help Microsoft that much in the territories that mattered most to them last gen. The hardcore loved them but the mainstream thought they were...meh. This gen and toward the end of last Microsoft has been moving toward 'where the money is', sacrificing some of the things that convinced the hardcore to buy the Xbox 1. It sucks that they won't have it both ways but this is the direction they are headed in.

RuinedMessiah
10-16-2006, 06:18 PM
And yet despite their new direction (which largely looks focused on an even harder core market arena, that of the PC gamer), mucho hype, and even killer "upcoming" titles (note to Microsoft: Casual gamers don't care what's coming out, just whats on the shelf), Xbox 360 is doing worse than the original Xbox.

I was personally worried when Microsoft stated they would focus less on game development many years ago. As of right now, the uniqueness that put an Xbox on my shelf has no discernable future on 360. Hate to put it this way but most of the games the Xbox audience praised, I hated. Like Splinter Cell. Talk about an artistically bland and boring game. And here I am, busting my ass through Tokobot and Okami.

mech7
10-16-2006, 06:42 PM
After all the negative news about the ps3 i do think it's cool that they let 3rd party developers on it.. Linux for ps3 is supposdly allready done :D

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/e17/screenshots/ydl_ps3.jpg

Now this is something we will never see on the xbox, not without hacks anyway :D

pixelmonk
10-16-2006, 06:44 PM
After all the negative news about the ps3 i do think it's cool that they let 3rd party developers on it.. Linux for ps3 is supposdly allready done :D

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/



Now this is something we will never see on the xbox, not without hacks anyway :D

are you sure they are allowing people to use the PS3 as something other than Sony intended?

AdamHerbert
10-16-2006, 06:51 PM
Are you sure about that? I thought DMC3 fire demon boss level looks positively stunning, then there's that MGS4. We'll also see the differences between multiplatform games. Overall, some of the games shown for the PS3 looks better than some of the games during the pre-launched of 360.

The DMC4 footage looks good, but it doesn't look any better than the Stranglehold footage I've seen on the 360.

As for MGS4, I think GOW looks better.

tozz
10-16-2006, 07:06 PM
When you're saying graphics, are you talking about textures and polys or what? I don't care if GOW runs in 9000*5000 with übernice textures as long as they keep that piece of crap physics and animation in the game. I still have nightmares about the scene where they move the car.

Animation and depth of view is what have me most exited in next gen. Oh, and White Knight Story :D

RuinedMessiah
10-16-2006, 07:17 PM
Animation and depth of view is what have me most exited in next gen. Oh, and White Knight Story :D

Agreed. The biggest burn about that game is if Level 5 wasn't so adamant about making it 40-60 hours long, we would have had it at launch! How would that have been? The first launch RPG ever that wasn't ass?

P_T
10-16-2006, 07:31 PM
The DMC4 footage looks good, but it doesn't look any better than the Stranglehold footage I've seen on the 360.

As for MGS4, I think GOW looks better.Ah but you can't use Stranglehold for comparison as it is also going to be available for the PS3. Wait until there's at least a video of the PS3 version.

Also note that GOW has been in development longer than MGS4 and it's set in a darker environment which can help to hide some flaws whereas MGS4 is set in bright daylight. At least wait till MGS4 is more polished like GOW is now.

RuinedMessiah
10-16-2006, 08:03 PM
We could always compare Ridge Racer 6 and 7....

But I wouldn't be that mean...

Kentaro
10-16-2006, 08:34 PM
Dude wake up and smell the video card, even some of MS biggest critics say GOW has Sony beat in regards to making a Next Gen Launch game. The makers of Unreal-lost there mind and went booku's making that game. The Co-Op play will be unsurpassed for 6 months at least.


Tomorrow we have the new Splinter Cell from Ubisoft and the graphics and game play on the 360 look amazing. And MS has Grand Theft Auto, with exclusive content only release for 2007. 360 Only


PS3 is going to do wonders. But the engineers I know working on it still can't stop it from catching fire and burning up processors during testing. Thats why they cut back on how many are to be released this year and pushed EU date back.


If and when u get one, what ever u do please dont play your PS3 near your XMass-tree.

Please.

Wickster
10-16-2006, 09:13 PM
We'll prolly know the winner at christmas time where the real shopping battle begins. Who knows who outsell the other but if it is Sony who comes out on top, that'd be great. though they would loosing a lot more money per system sold than nintendo. so first or second, nintendo will be in a good position.

as for me, i'll be contributing to 1 sale of wii. :D

all i can afford for a slow work year.

RuinedMessiah
10-16-2006, 09:38 PM
Dude wake up and smell the video card, even some of MS biggest critics say GOW has Sony beat in regards to making a Next Gen Launch game. The makers of Unreal-lost there mind and went booku's making that game. The Co-Op play will be unsurpassed for 6 months at least.
Since when is a game released over a year past the systems debut a launch game? And "Dude," the graphics may be hot the the framerate still looks about as stable as a relationship with Paris Hilton.


Tomorrow we have the new Splinter Cell from Ubisoft and the graphics and game play on the 360 look amazing.
And when those same shots were shown for PS3, I believe the wording you used was "disappointing." I mean, I'm not going to defend Splinter Cell regardless since, to me at least, the game is about as action packed and frenzied paced as Carnage Heart.


And MS has Grand Theft Auto, with exclusive content only release for 2007. 360 Only
Before we brag about this, let's find out what this content is, shall we? If could turn out to be Horse Armor all over again.


PS3 is going to do wonders. But the engineers I know working on it still can't stop it from catching fire and burning up processors during testing. Thats why they cut back on how many are to be released this year and pushed EU date back.
Links. Please. Because everywhere is saying the Blue Diodes are the issue, not the catching fire and leading the game industry to burnination.

Kentaro
10-16-2006, 09:43 PM
"Ruined" just remember where u heard it from, my buddy just IM'ed and said the US will be lucky to get even 200,000 systems. He's on the inside. I head to Sony Labs in a few days and will over see this quiet as kept developement.

I'm going as an invited guest though :-)

-Kentaro'

tozz
10-16-2006, 09:48 PM
Agreed. The biggest burn about that game is if Level 5 wasn't so adamant about making it 40-60 hours long, we would have had it at launch! How would that have been? The first launch RPG ever that wasn't ass?
Well since no game can be perfect Level 5 had to do something to not break the laws of gaming ;)

Still don't find GOW to be anything special, even when I watched the videos again, it seems more like a short tech demo than a game. What was the estimated time for completion? 4-8h? Meh. GOW isn't even close to being a launch game, it's like saying Halo 3 is a launch game.

Splinter Cell was never a good game, it were merely a pale western copy from a rather known game that came before it, oh, and it had the Tom Clancy stamp on it.. yawn.

Horse armor in GTA would be sweet indeed ;)

PS3's catching fire? That was news, how come nobody else has seen this? The kiosks, the exhibit shows, nothing. I mean, if it catches fire, it doesn't matter if they produce 10 or 10million, they still catch fire and still won't work. That was probably the lamest flamebait ever :)
"Ok, it doesn't work, lets make less units the exact same way and maybe it will work then"...

AdamHerbert
10-16-2006, 09:55 PM
Ah but you can't use Stranglehold for comparison as it is also going to be available for the PS3. Wait until there's at least a video of the PS3 version.

Also note that GOW has been in development longer than MGS4 and it's set in a darker environment which can help to hide some flaws whereas MGS4 is set in bright daylight. At least wait till MGS4 is more polished like GOW is now.

Sure I can use it as comparison. It's a 360 version playing on the 360 VS. a PS3 game playing on the PS3. If you really think there will be a difference in graphics on the PS3/360 titles you must be placing Sony on a pedastal. At best you'll see some frame rate differences.

Although GOW has been in development longer it's by less than a year. I think it's only a matter months actually. There are plenty of scenes that display GOW in broad daylight and it doesn't lose any of it's quality. I would really doubt that the graphics in MGS4 are going to get any better at this point.

TumikSmacker
10-16-2006, 11:01 PM
I really dont understand how some are saying that the 360 is doing worse then the xbox. 360 has sold more then double in its first year then what the xbox did in its first. Now keeping that in mind, here's the kicker - HALO 3 ISN'T EVEN OUT YET!.

Halo 2 sold 2.38 million copies in its first day out. It took 5 months for the first Halo to reach that. So judging by numbers only, Halo 3 will be Huge and will push a CRAP load of 360s out the door. I'm not bashing the PS3 but bring it down a couple of nothes. Both systems can dish out awesome graphics. Comparing MGS4 to Gears of War is...useless, they both look gorgeous.

RuinedMessiah
10-16-2006, 11:10 PM
"Ruined" just remember where u heard it from, my buddy just IM'ed and said the US will be lucky to get even 200,000 systems. He's on the inside. I head to Sony Labs in a few days and will over see this quiet as kept developement.

I'm going as an invited guest though :-)

-Kentaro'

Amazing how many people you have on the inside when it suits your purposes. When no one, including PS3 developers, have this information that you somehow have, I begin to doubt it. I mean, c'mon. PS3 bad news has been like candy at a 7-11. So much to choose from. I highly doubt that something this big would be hidden while everything else is pretty much ravaged by all the bashers. And I especially consider it excessively doubtful that, even if something like this was accurate, your "buddy" would casually IM you the issue foregoing all procedures to keep such a thing under wraps.

I know lots of people working in the industry, several pounding away on PS3 and even a couple in Sony's own developers. So at this point, I don't even need Penn & Teller to call bullshit on this claim.

Of course, you could always back it up. A link perhaps? Maybe even a name? Please tell me what magical source you have that the rest of the world lacks.

Squash-n-Stretch
10-16-2006, 11:31 PM
PS3's catching fire?


Well if they are outfitted with Sony power supplies it certainly sounds feasable :D I think almost every brand of laptop on earth these days should come with a fire extinguisher :D

To be fair, I did read a lot of reports on the net from the last big show (TGS maybe?) about PS3's in display units giving up and crashing. But I dunno, could the average living room get as hot as the inside of a plexi-glass box under an immense amount of lights? Plus, they only overheated, none detonated.

And the x-box fanboy who is in with all the big SONY heads seems to have a very short term memory...weren't there a fair numbers of 360's recalled over power supply issues? And several thousand X-Box power cables replaced because numerous reports of fires not seven months before that?

RuinedMessiah
10-16-2006, 11:31 PM
I really dont understand how some are saying that the 360 is doing worse then the xbox. 360 has sold more then double in its first year then what the xbox did in its first. Now keeping that in mind, here's the kicker - HALO 3 ISN'T EVEN OUT YET!.

Umm, what? Okay, I guess you could use that arguement if you simply lumped all the 360 sales against the first launch of the xbox. I can see how 360 was totally kicking global ass compared to a console that was largely one territory for it's first seven months (I believe.) But if you take it by a month per month basis, well... let's put it this way. Xbox 360 has had it's most success in the US. Japan sales are a joke, period. Last month, GBA outsold 360 (cannot seem to find the link anymore). And the UK? Well, I've heard that 360 is doing worse than Xbox did but cannot find hardcore stats to back it up either way. One thing that is confirmed, however, is that the US is 360's strongest market. Having said that...

http://videogamecharts.com/Gallery/albums/album01/Launch_Comparison_9_001.jpg

Feel free to mull that over a bit.

thoughtlesswhisper
10-16-2006, 11:34 PM
I really dont understand how some are saying that the 360 is doing worse then the xbox. 360 has sold more then double in its first year then what the xbox did in its first. Now keeping that in mind, here's the kicker - HALO 3 ISN'T EVEN OUT YET!.

Halo 2 sold 2.38 million copies in its first day out. It took 5 months for the first Halo to reach that. So judging by numbers only, Halo 3 will be Huge and will push a CRAP load of 360s out the door. I'm not bashing the PS3 but bring it down a couple of nothes. Both systems can dish out awesome graphics. Comparing MGS4 to Gears of War is...useless, they both look gorgeous.

having seen things like alan wake, assassins creed and to a lesser extent gears of war, i dont even think mgs4 looks that good anymore. from gameplay videos, it just looks kinda the same but nicer, jus like all these next gen games.

thoughtlesswhisper
10-16-2006, 11:40 PM
Ruined: Xbox360 had very limited supply at launch. pretty much the same figures that are shown for its total sales for the first months. meaning they sold out. xbox did not have such supply issues at launch and did not sell out. and when you look at the month 9 figures 360 has caught up with xbox sales as the supples came in.


were past nine months now so if those figues carry on the way their going i would assume 360 has done better than xbox in months 10 and 11.

EDIT: and 7 months in one region??

The Xbox is a sixth generation era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_games_%28Sixth_generation_era%29) video game console (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console) produced by Microsoft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft), first released on November 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_15), 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001) in North America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America), then released on February 22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_22), 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002) in Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan), and on March 14 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_14), 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002) in Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe).

Squash-n-Stretch
10-16-2006, 11:41 PM
having seen things like alan wake, assassins creed and to a lesser extent gears of war, i dont even think mgs4 looks that good anymore. from gameplay videos, it just looks kinda the same but nicer, jus like all these next gen games.

Yeah but MGS4 will shift more units (software and hardware) than GoW and Alan Wake put together, maybe even put AC in there too, if initial reviews are crappy. It's not about graphics so much in this instance as established pedigree. Graphics aside, I think and have always thought since I first saw MGS4 that the graphics were pretty enough, but the art direction was none existent...it just looks like Fox News on steroids. But I'll still be buying it, and a PS3 to play it on, cause I love/like the previous sequels. Established pedigree counts for a lot.

EnlightenedPixel
10-16-2006, 11:45 PM
Dude wake up and smell the video card, even some of MS biggest critics say GOW has Sony beat in regards to making a Next Gen Launch game. The makers of Unreal-lost there mind and went booku's making that game. The Co-Op play will be unsurpassed for 6 months at least.


Tomorrow we have the new Splinter Cell from Ubisoft and the graphics and game play on the 360 look amazing. And MS has Grand Theft Auto, with exclusive content only release for 2007. 360 Only


PS3 is going to do wonders. But the engineers I know working on it still can't stop it from catching fire and burning up processors during testing. Thats why they cut back on how many are to be released this year and pushed EU date back.


If and when u get one, what ever u do please dont play your PS3 near your XMass-tree.

Please.

The next GTA.. you mean this? http://www.rockstargames.com/grandtheftauto4/
Looks like its for both 360 and PS3, 1 year from today to be exact. Neat.
Oh, you mean THIS.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/grand-theft-auto-4/two-exclusive-gta4-episodes-coming-to-360-live-203634.php
I think paying for what will obviously be small addons isnt realy something to brag about. Its like saying you paid to get the GOTY edition of Unreal Tournament.

"PS3 is going to do wonders. But the engineers I know working on it still can't stop it from catching fire and burning up processors during testing. Thats why they cut back on how many are to be released this year and pushed EU date back."

In the real world, some companies might actualy sue over claims like that. Though its common knowledge many of the chips produced dont meet the standard at which they want for the PS3 so they end up being used elsewhere, the lack of viable chips is why they dont have enough, not because theyre supposedly 'burning up', but thats to be expected from something designed so akwardly but ready to handle massive ammounts of processing.

Ill even go to a news source known for being extremely picky about Sony games even if they are a dedicated but independent magazine.
http://www.psm3mag.com/page/psm3?entry=ps3_does_it_get_hot

And an even more unbiased source.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/ps3-overheating-problems-204897.php
Hm, Lockups in sweltering heat wile being enclosed.. yeah, even a refrigerator can break down in similar conditions.

As for claims of GOWs greatness, thats strictly a fanboys opinion. There are probably more people looking forward to HL2:Ep2 than GOW.

thoughtlesswhisper
10-16-2006, 11:46 PM
Yeah but MGS4 will shift more units (software and hardware) than GoW and Alan Wake put together, maybe even put AC in there too, if initial reviews are crappy. It's not about graphics so much in this instance as established pedigree. Graphics aside, I think and have always thought since I first saw MGS4 that the graphics were pretty enough, but the art direction was none existent...it just looks like Fox News on steroids. But I'll still be buying it, and a PS3 to play it on, cause I love/like the previous sequels. Established pedigree counts for a lot.

i only liked the 1st MG game. im more of a splinter cell guy :p

too much cut scenes and a lil too unrealistic for me.

RuinedMessiah
10-16-2006, 11:58 PM
Ruined: Xbox360 had very limited supply at launch. pretty much the same figures that are shown for its total sales for the first months. meaning they sold out. xbox did not have such supply issues at launch and did not sell out. and when you look at the month 9 figures 360 has caught up with xbox sales as the supples came in.
were past nine months now so if those figues carry on the way their going i would assume 360 has done better than xbox in months 10 and 11.

You were right about the seven month thing, which is why I put a "I believe" so I was wrong there.

Limited supply at launch does nothing to explain the constant underperformance of recent months. As it stands right now, we can look at recent months and the original Xbox is STILL outpacing 360.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157314.html
http://www.gamecareerguide.com/industry_news/11251/us_september_video_game_sales_up_38.php

thoughtlesswhisper
10-17-2006, 12:17 AM
You were right about the seven month thing, which is why I put a "I believe" so I was wrong there.

Limited supply at launch does nothing to explain the constant underperformance of recent months. As it stands right now, we can look at recent months and the original Xbox is STILL outpacing 360.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157314.html
http://www.gamecareerguide.com/industry_news/11251/us_september_video_game_sales_up_38.php

??? this is from your gamespot link.

"Xboxes plummeted 93 percent, the last platform's sales no doubt cannibalized by its next-gen sibling. "

"Some $89 million of 360 games were sold in August, beating analyst expectations (again)."

RuinedMessiah
10-17-2006, 01:06 AM
Allow me to re[hrase a previous comment since it remained fairly vague on just what the intent was.

Xbox launch figures on a month per month basis is STILL outpacing the same figures comparatively from Xbox 360. Meaning, of course, that month 10 and month 11 figures still pull Xbox ahead of the Xbox 360 on it's tenth and eleventh month.

Is that clear now, snoogums?

dARCKLOWN
10-17-2006, 01:17 AM
me and a couple of my mates were talking about this and basically came to the same comclusion: GOW, while looking pretty, looks like a pretty stock standard 3rd person shooter, lacking any kind of lasting gamplay. Its a shame really, spose you could say that about msot games these days, looks nice but the actual gameplay is just so bland and boring *cough* Far Cry (had ot be done, I know its old my a mate kept going on about how great that game was and I would counter that the actual gameplay was so boring bla bla :P).

Also I love my PS2 and all my MSG titles but im seeing more a few games which are making me think about a 360, especially seeing what christmas bundles they come up with over here cause I will be buying a PS3 but its just so ****ing far away that Im starting to not really be bothered wait that long. Granted Ill be buying games like assasins creed, dead rising, etc but if there out on a cheap 360 months and months ahead of the already delayed PS3 ( MARCH FOR AUS FFS) well ill see what happens then.

TumikSmacker
10-17-2006, 01:42 AM
Umm, what? Okay, I guess you could use that arguement if you simply lumped all the 360 sales against the first launch of the xbox. I can see how 360 was totally kicking global ass compared to a console that was largely one territory for it's first seven months (I believe.) But if you take it by a month per month basis, well... let's put it this way. Xbox 360 has had it's most success in the US. Japan sales are a joke, period. Last month, GBA outsold 360 (cannot seem to find the link anymore). And the UK? Well, I've heard that 360 is doing worse than Xbox did but cannot find hardcore stats to back it up either way. One thing that is confirmed, however, is that the US is 360's strongest market. Having said that...


Feel free to mull that over a bit.

From the same site

http://www.vgcharts.com/page2.html

Xbox 360 - 4 months into its life sold 3,200,000 units. We're both getting our information from the same site and we have both backed up our claims lol So there's a mistake on the site. I know for sure that 360 has sold more then that many units. My point is that 360 has done all this WITHOUT Halo. So when Halo hits there's going to be a HUGE rush, even if you dont like Halo it'll still happen. Also GTA is coming to 360 as well which was a huge PS2 seller.

P_T
10-17-2006, 03:09 AM
If you really think there will be a difference in graphics on the PS3/360 titles you must be placing Sony on a pedastal. At best you'll see some frame rate differences.

Although GOW has been in development longer it's by less than a year. I think it's only a matter months actually. There are plenty of scenes that display GOW in broad daylight and it doesn't lose any of it's quality. I would really doubt that the graphics in MGS4 are going to get any better at this point.I guess we'll see about that now won't we? :)

As with GOW, the product is almost finished if not already. It's for sale next month right? MGS4 doesn't even have any actual gameplay yet, just realtime demo. I doubt the difference is only a matter of months.

RuinedMessiah
10-17-2006, 03:24 AM
From the same site

http://www.vgcharts.com/page2.html

Xbox 360 - 4 months into its life sold 3,200,000 units. We're both getting our information from the same site and we have both backed up our claims lol So there's a mistake on the site. I know for sure that 360 has sold more then that many units. My point is that 360 has done all this WITHOUT Halo. So when Halo hits there's going to be a HUGE rush, even if you dont like Halo it'll still happen. Also GTA is coming to 360 as well which was a huge PS2 seller.

Kinda, sorta. Actually, my stats were just from the US. Simply because a worldwide month by month breakdown doesn't exist on the site. Yours was from worldwide sales and as thoughtlesswhisper already pointed out, Xbox didn't drop in Europe until Feb and in Japan during March, making the rush to march sales a tad misleading between the two consoles.

*sigh*

Until someone can link the UK and Japan equivelants of VG charts, I'm afraid we're at a stalemate here. Regardless, good debate.

Now, Halo 3 is coming but here's the issue. Halo 2 was a disappointment for many hardcore fans (apparently they were intimidated by the sheer choice in more than 3 different hallways constantly repeated... I KEED I KEED). So will Halo 3 command the same kind of respect Halo 2 did? I know, it likely will (and, incidently, while Halo 2 pushed copies, there was very little spike in console sales during November compared to the previous year... meaning that while Halo 2 sold tons of copies, it did so to current fans rather than console adopters). I'm not trying to belittle Halo 3's impact but Halo wasn't the tide turner last generation and it'd be rather foolish to expect it to be this gen.

TumikSmacker
10-17-2006, 04:20 AM
I honestly don’t believe Xbox 1 would have sold as much as it did if it weren’t for Halo. Most say that Halo 2 was a big disappointment but whenever I say to anyone 'hey lets play halo 1' they reply 'No Way!!! Halo 2!!'. So for some reason Halo 2 is still preferred over Halo 1, the only thing 2 has over 1 is 'live'. I'm looking forward to the option in Halo 3 where you can set the game up so that the vehicles dont explode :D

tozz
10-17-2006, 06:29 AM
Wasn't the whole "360 out of stock" just marketing crap? I mean, people reported real hardware sitting on the shelves and collecting dusts one week after it went retail, so the amount of units can't have been that bad.

hellgatemedia
10-17-2006, 07:28 AM
Nintendo is going to take over again.

If you need the Ps3 for Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy, or Metal Gear, than by all means get it. And be prepared to wait for the games you want to even come out.
Meanwhile, the X-Box 360 has a much better lineup of games, and will be carrying most titles available on the PS3.
The Wii, on the otherhand, will be the cheapest system, the only system with a packed in game, and the only system that will be backwards compatible with both games and controllers. There are 30 titles coming out at launch, including Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, which is reason enough to buy the system. Add Virtual Console to the mix, and I can't see how an over priced, and under supplied system like the PS3 is ever going to dominate the industry.
Getting a Wii, and a 360 instead of a PS3 is making more sense evey day.

Cronholio
10-17-2006, 08:07 AM
Wasn't the whole "360 out of stock" just marketing crap? I mean, people reported real hardware sitting on the shelves and collecting dusts one week after it went retail, so the amount of units can't have been that bad.

I was trying to get a 360 for my nephew last Christmas; it was most deffinitely sold out pretty much everywhere in the US and MS didn't really recover until late March/April so I really doubt it was a scheme by MS to drum up interest in the console. MS most deffinitely had difficulty making 360s and getting them on store shelves, which is odd, because honestly the demand wasn't really all that huge. It's probably still having reprecussions for MS because there's nothing retailers hate more than having to devote a significant ammount of floorspace, especially during the holidays, to a product they cannot stock much less sell.

Anyhow, most of the points being brought up in this thread are completely moot. What everyone is really arguing about is which platform will come in third or fourth this Christmas in North America. The PS2 (2, not 3) and DS will be the best selling game hardware this Christmas, and the PS3 and Wii will be the products that get mentioned every time you see a news story in the mass media about "hot items for the hoidays". Infact, it's entirely possible the GBA will outsell the 360 in NA this Christmas. Whether 360 can outsell PS3 and Wii this Chirstmas is more dependent on Sony and Nintendo's ability to get consoles to stores than any other factor.

In the long run, MS has little to no chance at being the number one next generation console in any market come Christmas 2007. Their hardware sales haven't been great, they haven't been horrible, they are flat and completely mediocre in every way. Doing "as good as" or "slightly better than" the Xbox isn't going to win this generation for MS. You can point to the the revenue generated by game software as some sort of positive indicator, but the numbers are inflated in favor of MS. 360 games cost anywhere from 15-100% more than their counterparts on other consoles, and the 360's curent user base is full of early adopters who spend far more of their dollars on games than the average console owner. This Christmas that will come to an end. I don't think there is any question at this point whether MS is going to be outsold by Sony and/or Nintendo in the long run, the question is how much of the market will be MS be able to secure for themselves.

the-negative
10-17-2006, 09:28 AM
Whoa, Spin City here!

I'll spin this off into "It's become console wars all over again with the few veterans", but hey, isn't this something what CGTalk should not have had in the first place?

The PS3 is going to be in limited availability this Christmas, and likely suffer from a game drought that plagued the PS2 until the second year of it's (NA) launch.

The average consumer doesn't want something that runs Linux, costs at least 500 bucks, is the size of the first Xbox, and has a controller that feels light and has trigger buttons set all the way wrong? They would rather get something that feels/costs much more like a PS2 (Sucess formula? :D), but improved on almost every aspect of it. And no, it's not gonna be the PS3. At their current states, the Wii and the 360 will take Christmas on their own, with both possibly selling out in much higher units due to lack of PS3 availability.

We could play paper wars all day long, but to prove what exactly? That it's definately not the 360 that's gonna win this war? When MS plays hardball cash strategies in 07 after die shrinks, we'll see... ;)

BTW: If the PlaystationTHREE (yes, revised) launches in 2008 with YDL for 300 bucks, here I come PS3 renderfarm!

danshewan
10-17-2006, 10:04 AM
What everyone is really arguing about is which platform will come in third or fourth this Christmas in North America.

That may be true, but the focus of the original article is based on global unit sale expectations. Whilst North America is a major market for the Big Three, to ignore the implications of other markets is both misleading, and largely unrepresentative of the bigger picture.

As for what consumers want in terms of PS2 familiarity, from what I've read the controller seems to be somewhat of a bone of contention among the press;

"Personally, we can't help but feel that the SIXAXIS (as it's now known) has been sadly neglected when viewed alongside the rest of the PS3. Compared to Microsoft's uber-comfortable Xbox 360 pad, the SIXAXIS feels cheap, plasticky, uncomfortable and disconcertingly light - almost as if it's going to fly out of your hands during those more extreme gaming moments."

Read the rest here:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/738/738858p2.html

Cronholio
10-17-2006, 11:09 AM
That may be true, but the focus of the original article is based on global unit sale expectations. Whilst North America is a major market for the Big Three, to ignore the implications of other markets is both misleading, and largely unrepresentative of the bigger picture.

What implications are there out in the rest of the world that could possibly make a difference? NA is Microsoft's strongest territory and they aren't doing as well as they need to do here. As much as I would like the 360 to be a huge success it's just not in the cards.

All this talk about what the average consumer wants is a bit silly. Of course no one "wants" to pay 500 dollars for a game console, but guess what, they are going to pay 500-600 dollars in droves. If Sony could possibly get 3 million PS3s in stores all over the world by the end of the year, they'd sell every last one of them because there are enough people out there more than willing to pay that price. It doesn't matter what any geek from a gaming site or forum thinks of the controller, the size of the console, the launch lineup, the future of BluRay, it's practical use as a computer, the chrome bezel, or the Spiderman font. Sony has enough of a fan base and enough hype to sell several million consoles at that price. The "average" consumer is not going to be buying into next gen until Christmas 2008-2009, by then the price of all the consoles will be at mass market levels and there will be plenty of games for every type of consumer.

danshewan
10-17-2006, 11:32 AM
What implications are there out in the rest of the world that could possibly make a difference? NA is Microsoft's strongest territory and they aren't doing as well as they need to do here.

As hard as it is to believe for some, there are other countries in the world, something that Microsoft are acutely aware of. If they aren't performing well in their strongest territory, surely they should also be concerned with what they can do to improve sales at home and overseas, besides lowering prices of a console that gamers don't seem to want in light of the competition.

I'm not picking sides. Personally, I think all three consoles are appealing in their own right. However, you can't accurately base a prediction of unit sales based on the buying trends and consumer attitudes of one continent, and that's not something the original article set out to do, despite the rather obvious geographical bias of previous posts.

hellgatemedia
10-17-2006, 03:01 PM
If I was to look at current market trends, I see Nintendo dominance through the Wii, and the DS. I just don't see PS3 dominance outside of Japan. It's too expensive, too under supplied, and I would bet anything that every time they bring out a game like Final Fantasy, or Devil May Cray, or Metal Gear, Microsoft will release something like Halo 3.
Look at the launch schedule, Microsoft is going to have Gears of war available for anyone who comes into a game store wanting a PS3, ends up empty handed, and wants to play a next gen gaming system.

danshewan
10-17-2006, 03:18 PM
Look at the launch schedule, Microsoft is going to have Gears of war available for anyone who comes into a game store wanting a PS3, ends up empty handed, and wants to play a next gen gaming system.

You have to consider just how big the Metal Gear Solid fanbase actually is, though (since we're talking about Gears....). Granted, many casual gamers will no doubt opt for Gears of War having wandered into a store looking to purchase a next-gen title, but many, many more have been waiting for MGS4 for a long time. And that's just one game - I don't think the PS3's chances (or it's launch titles) should be underestimated so easily.

And to dismiss the Japanese market for games would be like dismissing the American market for automobiles. Not to mention the recently-announced proposed drop in price.....

Interesting.

tozz
10-17-2006, 03:26 PM
If I was to look at current market trends, I see Nintendo dominance through the Wii, and the DS. I just don't see PS3 dominance outside of Japan. It's too expensive, too under supplied, and I would bet anything that every time they bring out a game like Final Fantasy, or Devil May Cray, or Metal Gear, Microsoft will release something like Halo 3.
Look at the launch schedule, Microsoft is going to have Gears of war available for anyone who comes into a game store wanting a PS3, ends up empty handed, and wants to play a next gen gaming system.
Dude, wake up, we pay the same price for the PS3 as we did with the PS2, perhaps less counting in the value of the money then vs now. Price is NOT a problem, and won't be for a long time. The first five million units will be hardcore gamers, and we all know price is not an issue for that genre. Nintendo hasn't dominated since the SNES days, and they have a very old image to get rid of if they want to succeed with casual gamers, since for most people, Nintendo is still kiddy. How can you expect Microsoft to pull that rabbit out of the hat when they didn't manage to something even close to it the last generation? Very high expectations based on almost nothing. The 360 will get some very good titles indeed, but to be so naive as to think they will time with PS3 releases makes no sense, and the same goes for Sony fighting off 360 titles.
You say it's undersupplied, it haven't even begun shipping, would be nice if you would actually base your statements on some facts.

RuinedMessiah
10-17-2006, 04:24 PM
Tozz, PS3 will be undersupplied, there is not bones about it. The fact that PS3 preorders killed Amazon Japan's website should be evidence enough that demand will far outweigh supply. Sony could provide 2 million in the US alone and the only thing that will happen is that it means you can get into a line at 6am and still get a PS3, but not if you show up at the store at 8pm.

However, some people seem to place too much stock in the whole "well, it's on shelves" sales for 360. Personally, I feel this is a foolish hope. PS3 and Xbox 360 is a high priced item. You don't go into a store, get turned down, and suddenly decide to buy an equally expensive alternative. If any consoles will receive "oh well, let's get this instead" sales, it would be the much cheaper consoles like NDS, Wii (I thought Nintendo promised to launch BEFORE PS3), or even PSP.

Dr. Nick
10-17-2006, 04:26 PM
Wasn’t the whole "360 out of stock" just marketing crap? I mean, people reported real hardware sitting on the shelves and collecting dusts one week after it went retail, so the amount of units can't have been that bad.Not really. People were bitching left and right about how they couldn't get their hands on a system. It pretty much depends on where you live. I remember one person telling me that the Xbox 360 was a flop because the Wal-mart she worked for in Massachusetts had "a ton of them". So there were some people reporting that they Xbox 360s sitting on store shelves in some places but it was genuine that it was pretty hard to get your hands on a system in the US without having to make some really out of the way trip to get one. The City I live in was sold out for months and every time a store got a shipment you would be lucky if it was still there for the day. One of my friends works for one of the top 20 games stores in state I live in (known mainly for it being sunny). At launch his store received 80-90 xbox360's out of nearly 300 pre-orders (I was first in line to pick mine up). It took the store until early March to have any on store shelves. of seeing Xbox 360s


The PS3 on the other hand they will be receiving only 15 units and had to e-mail people who told the store they were interested in the system to pre-order. The Wii faired better though but was still pretty limited*. He said he not sure if he can go through another holiday of listening to people complaining about not being able to find the latest console like with the DS and Xbox 360 launch. They only expect 400,000 systems to be available for launch in the USA. This is official info coming from Sony themselves. It will be very hard to get your hands on a PS3 if you haven't pre-ordered on already.


However, some people seem to place too much stock in the whole "well, it's on shelves" sales for 360. Personally, I feel this is a foolish hope. PS3 and Xbox 360 is a high priced item. You don't go into a store, get turned down, and suddenly decide to buy an equally expensive alternative.It's not equally expensive if the alternative cost about 100-200 dollars less. If they are looking for a HD movie player you have a point but if you are looking for a game system Wii or 360 are likely to be seen as a reasonable alternatives.

*The Nintendo should have a pretty big stock of system ready for X-mas. They say they will have 4 million systems.

tozz
10-17-2006, 04:37 PM
Tozz, PS3 will be undersupplied, there is not bones about it. The fact that PS3 preorders killed Amazon Japan's website should be evidence enough that demand will far outweigh supply. Sony could provide 2 million in the US alone and the only thing that will happen is that it means you can get into a line at 6am and still get a PS3, but not if you show up at the store at 8pm.

However, some people seem to place too much stock in the whole "well, it's on shelves" sales for 360. Personally, I feel this is a foolish hope. PS3 and Xbox 360 is a high priced item. You don't go into a store, get turned down, and suddenly decide to buy an equally expensive alternative. If any consoles will receive "oh well, let's get this instead" sales, it would be the much cheaper consoles like NDS, Wii (I thought Nintendo promised to launch BEFORE PS3), or even PSP.
You're missing my point, I know it will be undersupplied at launch.
This is the context to what I replied.
"I just don't see PS3 dominance outside of Japan. It's too expensive, too under supplied,..."
It's nothing about launch, it's about the life span. You don't dominate on launch, you dominate after.

Dr. Nick: Ok, that was what I figured, makes sense with the Sony pre-order system where you select the store then I guess :)

P_T
10-17-2006, 04:40 PM
Australia got the 360 this March despite that "global launch" jab at PS3 by Moore at X06 so supply is a moot point really.

Another one is the price. People's been yappin off about how expensive PS3 is but honestly,

PS3 @ $600
60gig HDD
hi-def BD drive

Xbox360 @ $400
20gig HDD
DVD drive

Just to even up these 2 features already put Xbox at higher price
2x20gig HDD @ $100 = $200
HDDVD drive @ $200

That puts 360 at $800. Now you may or may not want to get these but since MS supplies them, of course they would want the consumers to buy them and the ones who did, would already paid more than they would a PS3. It wasn't just a PR talk when that Sony speaker said people do get a good deal for what they're paying for.

Another thing is, the HDDVD drive doesn't use HDMI connection, I don't know if this is a big deal or not.

RuinedMessiah
10-17-2006, 04:44 PM
I agree with Dr. Nick. The 360 being in short supply was a reality. In the store I was working in (thankfully retail is now my past), we got 16 at launch. Period. Three weeks afterward, we got 2 more. Our final shipment was four days before Xmas and we got 8. In our area, however, the news of 360 defects was a big deal (our state was the one a class action suit against Microsoft was launched claiming Microsoft knew of the defect rate and launched anyway so it was pretty big news) and the rush for a console really died down. Of course, once Oblivion and GRAW dropped, 360 became a steady seller once more.

RuinedMessiah
10-17-2006, 04:47 PM
Another thing is, the HDDVD drive doesn't use HDMI connection, I don't know if this is a big deal or not.

Actually, it is. Supposedly, IGN did a huge report refutting 360's 1080p claim a while back. If I wasn't at work, I could find it. Guess you'll just have to wait until tonight.

Dr. Nick
10-17-2006, 04:48 PM
Australia got the 360 this March despite that "global launch" jab at PS3 by Moore at X06 so supply is a moot point really.

How long did you guys have to wait to get your PS2s and Xboxes after they had been officially launched elsewhere? When console makers talk world wide launch they are talking about Japan, Europe, and America. This is true for both Microsoft and Sony.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/735/735860p1.html
Remember that Microsoft is in the DVD forum and a supporter of HD-DVD. They will figure out a way to make it happen.

Here is the thing about HDTV. I own one but if you don't, do you really care about HD movie playback if you don't receive any benefit from it? Do you really care about 1080p if your TV can't display it? Right now I don't care too much about the addition of 1080p playback on the Xbox 360 because I don't have a TV that supports it. I'm already playing games in 1080i which looks great to me.

tozz
10-17-2006, 05:04 PM
Europe? Are you joking? We're about as screwed over as Australia, both with prices, launch dates and availability.

Dr. Nick
10-17-2006, 05:05 PM
Europe? Are you joking? We're about as screwed over as Australia, both with prices, launch dates and availability.You guys didn't get screwed by the Xbox 360. You guys had to wait only two weeks. How long did/do you have to wait for the PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, Wii(which I think is actually launching at the same time as the US), or PS3?

P_T
10-17-2006, 05:29 PM
Actually, it is. Supposedly, IGN did a huge report refutting 360's 1080p claim a while back. If I wasn't at work, I could find it. Guess you'll just have to wait until tonight.I was only going by this video interview on HD-DVD. The guy even said that without HDMI 360 will support native 1080p resolution if your TV also supports that.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13888&type=mov&pl=game

Like I said earlier Dr Nick. You and some others may or may not want these features but since MS supplies them, of course they would expect people to buy them and that brings back to my original point about PS3 actually being cheaper than 360, people who bought these stuff would pay more than they would a PS3.

Dr. Nick
10-17-2006, 06:27 PM
Like I said earlier Dr Nick. You and some others may or may not want these features but since MS supplies them, of course they would expect people to buy them and that brings back to my original point about PS3 actually being cheaper than 360, people who bought these stuff would pay more than they would a PS3.
Well people know the Blue ray player is in the PS3, they know about the 60 gig harddrive( I admit is a plus though I have yet to fill my 20 with anything other then game demos and videos which I delete after the game is released or if I have no intention of ever buying the game.) but that is the last thing on their mind when they say the system is too expensive. They want to play games on the thing, everything else is just an extra and this time around it is an extra that you may or may not receive any benefit from. Right now to play games on the PS3 you have to pay more than you have to for the competing brands. It is all about the games isn't it.

Most of the people talking about the price are speaking from the American or Japanese prospective. Over here the prices announced at E3 are too much for many of us. People were out raged to find out that the Xbox 360(non-core) system cost more than 300 US dollars. Its actually better that Sony didn't announce the price of the PS3 back then or people would have been livid. Just remember that when people talk about price.

tozz
10-17-2006, 06:33 PM
You guys didn't get screwed by the Xbox 360. You guys had to wait only two weeks. How long did/do you have to wait for the PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, Wii(which I think is actually launching at the same time as the US), or PS3?
It's not only about waiting, the prices are insane here too, and if consoles aren't region free I consider that more of a fu*k you than a couple of months waiting for release.
We waited 8months for the PS2, 4months for the XBOX and about 8months for the Gamecube. 5months for the PS3 is actually better than the last time around ^^
I think Wii will launch at the same time as in the US.

Waiting five months for the hardware isn't such a bad thing, having to wait that long for every single game (if they even get here) is pure pain.

P_T
10-17-2006, 06:55 PM
but that is the last thing on their mind when they say the system is too expensive. They want to play games on the thing, everything else is just an extra and this time around it is an extra that you may or may not receive any benefit from. But it doesn't change the fact that MS does sell these peripherals and that means they do expect consumers to buy them and that there will be people who have bought or are going to buy them.

Now there are people who insist on Sony overpricing their console, but if you look at the price from the perspective of someone who does want these features and have spent $400 for a 360, $100 for extra 20gig HDD and another $200 for the HDDVD drive, I bet you'll start thinking that maybe PS3 isn't so expensive after all.

thoughtlesswhisper
10-17-2006, 11:15 PM
-double post-

first one ever! i always wondered how people managed to do that.

thoughtlesswhisper
10-17-2006, 11:17 PM
Until someone can link the UK and Japan equivelants of VG charts, I'm afraid we're at a stalemate here. Regardless, good debate.

no its not a good debate. its a pointless debate about you trying to make out like 360 sales are in some major way poor. the console is selling very respectably. comparing it to xbox sales doesnt even prove or mean anything, especially when you are trying to compare month by month basis from both releases when they had different scheduled releases in different times with diferent populations and trends etc. *sigh*

RuinedMessiah
10-18-2006, 12:53 AM
Yeah, 360 is really burning up the charts. Software wise, yes.. it is. Hardware wise? In US and Japan, it's confirmed as doing worse than the original, and in case you missed it, the original barely scraped out a 2nd place victory. The numbers provided in this thread prove the point. And if 360 is underperforming compared to the original Xbox in a market where it was alone for a year, what does that say to you?

It's okay if it seems bleak. Don't worry, it's no indication of a surefire loss. After all, it took one game to kill the saturn in Japan and that game was Final Fantasy VII. All Microsoft needs is a Final Fantasy VII. And they need it before Sony gets theirs.

EnlightenedPixel
10-18-2006, 02:03 AM
It's okay if it seems bleak. Don't worry, it's no indication of a surefire loss. After all, it took one game to kill the saturn in Japan and that game was Final Fantasy VII. All Microsoft needs is a Final Fantasy VII. And they need it before Sony gets theirs.

And I dont think Blue Dragon or whatever it is looks like an FF7 console killer, do you?

tozz
10-18-2006, 06:16 AM
Blue Dragon seems very pale, unfortunately, 360 could really use a good japanese style rpg. After playing FF12 the norm has increased yet again, and turn based combat really doesn't cut it any more (unless it's extremely well planned and has something special to it).

RuinedMessiah
10-18-2006, 01:30 PM
And I dont think Blue Dragon or whatever it is looks like an FF7 console killer, do you?

Hardly the same circumstances. You see, until FFVII's announcement, Playstation and Saturn were fighting on damn close circumstances. Month per month, the winner was very hard to predict. And then once FFVII was announced as a PSX exclusive, sales for Saturn dropped dramatically.

For Blue Dragon to serve the function of FFVII, there needs to be two circumstances. The first is that the general public is already accepting of Xbox 360. Given the fact that the console has reached a point where you can buy the console with 2 games for $120 cheaper than in the US with just the console, I'd say this part hasn't happened yet. The second is that the game is a good enough reason to give up on the competitor all together.

Blue Dragon has potential to make 360 a viable platform in Japan for a change, but not to kill PS3 buzz. I'm afraid not even a followup with Lost Odyssey can do that.

And with Japan riding the high of Final Fantasy XII (first FF game EVER to get a perfect score from Famitsu), Final Fantasy XIII and Vs are major reasons not to give up on PS3 just yet, even without Level 5s White Knight Story.

and tozz, looking at the sales of Dragon Quest VIII in Japan, can't say I agree with you. You don't get more traditionally turn based than DQVIII and yet I don't think even FFXII's sales have surpassed it.

Dr. Nick
10-18-2006, 02:36 PM
Blue Dragon doesn't need to have the same impact as FFVII did. It just needs to have enough impact to get the system closer to Gamecube like sales over there or even helping the system reach just a million systems sold in Japan, which would be a first for any system created outside of Japan. If that can be done developers and publisher might start to make games on ther own to sustain the system without much encouragement from Microsoft. Right now the Xbox 360 in Japan needs to be treated like the Xbox 1 in the west, where Microsoft was responsible for most of the big titles. Microsoft would like to stop doing that sometime in the future in Japan kind of like what they have done in the west but can't until Japanese publishers provide it with enough content, multiplatform or not, to sustain it.



As for the quality of Blue Dragon one would hope that Sakaguchi has a point to prove with this game (Kind of like Shaq becoming part of the Heat). If that is the case he will everything in his power to make sure Blue Dragon is the best game it can be. If not Microsoft could end up with another N3 on its hands. A game that looked like it had a ton of potential but in the end was just average. Of course Blue Dragon being anything other than a AAA title wouldn't be good for Microsoft considering this is really their last chance before the PS3 and Wii take over Japan.



Personally after viewing footage of the game from TGS2006 and X06, Blue Dragon is one of the top games on my list and I don't give a crap how many Xbox 360s it manages to sell in Japan as long as I get it properly localized in less than 6 months. The west is where this game is likely to make most of its money.

tozz
10-18-2006, 03:35 PM
and tozz, looking at the sales of Dragon Quest VIII in Japan, can't say I agree with you. You don't get more traditionally turn based than DQVIII and yet I don't think even FFXII's sales have surpassed it.
You said it yourself :)
Dragon Quest VIII
They could probably do crap shit Dragon Quests up to XV before people would get tired, the franchise is that well established. Same thing with Final Fantasy. FF8 was crap, X-2 even more so, but it didn't affect the rest of the games in any way. They have the benefit of being able to go on reputation. I'm not saying Chrono Trigger is bad reputation to have with you, but it's a very long time ago, alot of players hasn't even had the pleasure of enjoying it so for them Blue Dragon is totally new, but looks like everything else. This is of course my own view, but games like White Knight Story actually seems to want to go beyond the norm, Blue Dragon for me is doing everything old all over, but they don't have the "street cred" with them on it (for alot of people). Only time will tell if it will work.

And what's up with the character design? Or rather the lack of :/

heavyness
10-18-2006, 03:55 PM
it doesn't matter what we think of Blue Dragon and/or Lost Odyssey, we will have to wait to see what Famitsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famitsu) says about it. if they like it, it will help push a lot of Japanese gamers to go buy the 360/Blue Dragon bundle system.

plus, no one here has played either of the games, so lets not pass judgement until next year when we get to sit down with these games and play them.


also, Lumines Live (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/l/lumineslivearcadexbox360/default.htm) on the Xbox Live Arcade right now! so stop bickering and go play some games.



***update. this blog (http://www.younewb.com/index.php/2006/10/18/blue-dragon-bundles-sell-out-in-japan/) said...

[/url] [url="http://blog.livedoor.jp/widappy/archives/51217696.html"]This Japanese blog (http://blog.livedoor.jp/widappy/archives/51217696.html) is reporting that Japanese retailer Edigi sold out of all of the Blue Dragon Xbox 360 bundles they had, within five minutes.

now, i thought the game doesn't come out until December 8th, so i''m guessing they are talking about pre-orders for the special Blue Dragon/360 bundle. so some good news on the 360 front in Japan.

Dr. Nick
10-18-2006, 04:41 PM
now, i thought the game doesn't come out until December 8th, so i''m guessing they are talking about pre-orders for the special Blue Dragon/360 bundle. so some good news on the 360 front in Japan.
Microsoft has a good plan of attack. DOAX2 in November, one of my e-mail contacts is very interested in this game, and Blue Dragon in December. As long as Microsoft pushes these games extensively but not so much that you get sick of them before playing them Nintendo won't totally slaughter them this year.

In other news Gears of War will probably not be sold in Germany. The same thing happened with Dead Rising. The game is considered to be too violent. :D Gears of War will probably get the Z rating in Japan as well.

P_T
10-18-2006, 04:55 PM
Still too early to tell. Shenmue couldn't really save the Dreamcast either, although I must admit Akira Toriyama name will give Blue Dragon a lot of weight.

EnlightenedPixel
10-18-2006, 06:35 PM
In other news Gears of War will probably not be sold in Germany. The same thing happened with Dead Rising. The game is considered to be too violent. :D Gears of War will probably get the Z rating in Japan as well.

Too violent.. in GERMANY?

Dr. Nick
10-18-2006, 06:38 PM
Too violent.. in GERMANY?
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/740/740000p1.html
The game is too violent period, not like I care, but the German video game ratings board considers it violent enough to not give it a rating at all.

danshewan
10-18-2006, 06:41 PM
Too violent.. in GERMANY?

Definitely one for Ripley's.....

I was quite surprised also, but when it comes to violence some European countries can be surprisingly conservative.

Check this out:

http://play.tm/story/6892

EnlightenedPixel
10-18-2006, 06:45 PM
Definitely one for Ripley's.....
I was quite surprised also, but when it comes to violence some European countries can be surprisingly conservative.
Check this out:
http://play.tm/story/6892
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/740/740000p1.html
The game is too violent period, not like I care, but the German video game ratings board considers it violent enough to not give it a rating at all.

..ok.. that realy is wierd

and absurd.

... Does jack Thompson know he's in the wrong country?

danshewan
10-18-2006, 06:51 PM
... Does jack Thompson know he's in the wrong country?

After a bout of hysterical screaming and toys being thrown in the corner, he probably appealed the decision. Someone should tell him, and give him a teddy bear.

Bless.

heavyness
10-18-2006, 07:02 PM
In other news Gears of War will probably not be sold in Germany. The same thing happened with Dead Rising. The game is considered to be too violent. :D Gears of War will probably get the Z rating in Japan as well.
Dead Rising [in my opinion] is more violent then Gears Of War.

In GOW, your killing aliens, which last time i checked, have no social status so it's like killing thin air and or kittens. Killing zombies on the other hand is a bit different. they were human just a couple of hours ago, and they are shoppers [the game happens in a mall]. so, they use to be human, so that puts them on a higher social status then most males [since they are already at the mall, the chances of them buying something increases, and so does their social status]. remember, the more you buy, the better. zombies probably still have their debit cards in their back pockets. aliens don't buy anything, they just kill and take. not good if your marketing campaign for the new Nike shoes revolves around the "hip young 30 year-old still breathing crowd from planet Earth."

it's how the old motto goes... "sell a zombie a wine goblet, he'll come back for the wine. sell an alien a toaster, and he'll use it to kill your mom."

food for thought people.

P_T
10-19-2006, 02:51 AM
In GOW, your killing aliens, which last time i checked, have no social status so it's like killing thin air and or kittens.Kittens?!? dude, if you kill what possible is one of the cutest thing in the world... there'll be a lot of hatin for you my friend.

Anyway, zombies used to be human, now they're just automatons. It's our job to set their souls free.

heavyness
10-19-2006, 03:06 AM
Kittens?!? dude, if you kill what possible is one of the cutest thing in the world... there'll be a lot of hatin for you my friend.

Anyway, zombies used to be human, now they're just automatons. It's our job to set their souls free.

about the kitten thing... that is out of my control. i don't make the rules.

anyways, setting zombies' souls free... that may be to religious for some countries. acting as a god is a big no no last time i checked.... :twisted:

P_T
10-19-2006, 03:31 AM
anyways, setting zombies' souls free... that may be to religious for some countries. acting as a god is a big no no last time i checked.... :twisted:
Oh no no no... wouldn't dream about supplanting God. a demigod would suffice... preferably with a secondary power to foresee the conclusion of console wars. :D

EnlightenedPixel
10-19-2006, 03:55 AM
about the kitten thing... that is out of my control. i don't make the rules.


I thought God killed kittens.

So Says the all mighty Internet.

heavyness
10-19-2006, 04:35 PM
speaking of the devil...

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/19/blue-dragon-helps-boost-360-in-japan/

Let no one doubt the power a popular anime artist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Toriyama) and a popular RPG developer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hironobu_Sakaguchi) can have on a system's success in Japan. 1up is reporting (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154520) that pre-orders for the 10,000 limited edition Blue Dragon Xbox 360 bundles (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/07/microsofts-japan-only-blue-dragon-bundle/) are selling briskly, with some retailers running out of stock within minutes. This is the same console that barely sold 2,000 units (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/13/japanese-hardware-sales-2-october-8-october-rejected-edition/) in the country last week, making the healthy interest all the more surprising.

Is this sales surge a temporary blip due to a collectible bundle, or will Microsoft be able to parlay the interest into a sustainable market share in the country? Either way, we'd advise Microsoft that a boob-filled bundle for Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/23/tgs-doax2-passes-the-one-hand-test/) couldn't hurt in the land of the giant huggable Kasumi pillow (http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,62176,00.html).

Read (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154520)

alimn1984
10-23-2006, 07:36 PM
Well, I think that PS3 will sell more than 360 and Wii, We'll see...

Kind Regards-Alimn

SheepFactory
10-23-2006, 08:07 PM
We'll see...

K

Lets finish on that note.