Problems with muscle/ muscle deformer

[wuensch]

So, the question is: what is different in your own file from the examples ?
Only you can look it up-- .


I am currently experiencing strange phenomenons with the muscle feature in R10. Unlike the examples that accompany the quickstart tuts I have to use extremely high strength values on the minimum states in order to receive any response from the muscle deformer when using a model of my own (arm), approximately about 900 to 2500 % whereas the demo files just need 100 to 120 %. This leads to tremendously large muscles in the muscle object while the effects on the muscle deformer are just moderate. At 100 % minimum strength I do not receive any effect.



The annoying thing about this is the fact that one can hardly estimate the proper shape and size of a muscle needed to achieve a certain deformation.



The order of the objects in the object manager is correct; thus, the source of error must be found somewhere else.



I would be grateful for any advice.





Cheers





Janho

[bobzilla]

You have to play with the strength a bit.

All depends on what you have it set up on. I used one of Dan's leg rigs that comes with CD IK Tools. Just a basic leg. I followed the instructions in the Quickstart Guide, but I did have to adjust my settings. In fact, I had to do the opposite of the manual. I left the Max strength alone and bumbed up the Min strength to about 200%.

Works fine. Pretty cool looking, too...

As Kai would say, "Play with the settings!"

[Janho]

So, the question is: what is different in your own file from the examples ?
Only you can look it up-- .

A nice way to put it (Witzischkeit kennt keine Grenzen); unfortunately I can't provide a file as this is a demo ;-)

Seriously, I was just asking whether anyone might have had similar experiences that could help me to understand the way this feature works or to get to know possible workarounds.


Cheers

Janho

[Janho]

You have to play with the strength a bit.

All depends on what you have it set up on. I used one of Dan's leg rigs that comes with CD IK Tools. Just a basic leg. I followed the instructions in the Quickstart Guide, but I did have to adjust my settings. In fact, I had to do the opposite of the manual. I left the Max strength alone and bumbed up the Min strength to about 200%.

Works fine. Pretty cool looking, too...

As Kai would say, "Play with the settings!"


Interesting; encouraging as well. Thanks for sharing your experiences, bobzilla.

Regards

Janho

[bobzilla]

No problem. We're all just trying the new things out at this point.

I was actually able to make a pretty simple thigh and calf muscle set up fairly quickly.

i just wish it had some jiggle controls...

[Per-Anders]

well what sort of jiggle are you after? if it's jsut length/position/pins then use the constrant tag to constrain some nulls with springs to your rig and then pin the muscles using them. otherwise there is the delay effect in the muscle deformer itself.

[bobzilla]

Well, like I said, a jiggle tyhat lasts after a foot stomps. Delay doesn't last.

I guess I'll have to use the nulls method, but really, that should be something within the muscle, no?

[Per-Anders]

I don't see why to be honest (i'm not even sure where people got the idea from, fat jiggles, muscle not so much), as it is the interfaces can get a bit overloaded in Cinema and the point is that the tools are there to do this stuff, it seems a bit redundant to repeat this sort of thing all over to me.

[bobzilla]

Well, muscle does jiggle, or at the very least reverberate. Maybe that's more of what I mean.

If a bodybuilder with 6% bodyfat jumps up and down, you'll see movement.

[bobzilla]

OK. Well, this might not be the most elegant, but it seems to work OK without much fuss.

Using the arm rig that comes with the demo, I used a Spring Constraint to constrain a null to Joint.2. Then I used the null in the second field in the Fixings tab in the Muscle Object and then just played with the settings.

[LucentDreams]

the real problem witht he jiggle (would be nice to have an option for a true soft body) is that you dont have a means to control the center easily, one cane linke a null to the center using xpresso, and then a spring constraint onto that, but the problem that if the center passes the mesh then the muscle deformation breaks.

And muscle certainly does move, quite dramatically too. Look at a horse run cycle, or a thigh in any relaxed pose.

I'll agree that there are several ways to emulate much of this manually, but then why bother with the muscle system. You and I both know that I managed to duplicate 90% of this muscle system with mograph alone (as well my method allowed for muscles of any shape). The muscle system is far easier to make the same setup, so why shouldn't it simplify the whole process, not just 50%.


That said the muscles are handy, and simplify a lot for more basic users, but the people who'd really need them will have to do a lot of custom work to get what they want with them.

[bobzilla]

I must admit, I'm not familiar with your MoGraph method or your muscle shaping methods, but I would be very interested.

Can you point me to these methods are demonstrated?

I don't own MoGraph, but hopefully these things can be recreated easily without it?

[LucentDreams]

I'll have to review the video and see if it has anything that shouldn't be seen as it was done during alphas.

I woudln't typically advise the mograph method though, as I said, the muscle system doest the same basic thing in a much simpler to setup way, my point in the post was that the idea is to build something that simplifies the process, so why should it stop at the dynamics stage.

[bobzilla]

I agree, Kai. Thanks.

It seems if MXON would spend just a little more time on it, the muscle object would be pretty cool.

Another "almost there" type of functionality...

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