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View Full Version : Really interesting rigging concept


mdee
10-08-2006, 03:40 PM
Here is something I 've read about today in Keith Lango 's blog.
I am posting it here because the TD (Bernhard Haux) behind it is obviously using XSI...

http://www.characteranimator.com/temp/movies/reel_tech_01deformation.wmv

It's ground breaking thing for me and just out of pure curiostiy I'd like to know technical theory behind it (not to mention I'd use it right away it it was widely avaliable).

I have very vague idea how to replicate it using sort of lattice setup. Would be great to hear other people's ideas.
I've been toying with different type of setup allowing to draw lines of action on the screen with similar effects to the grid deformation, but grid approach (I feel) is much better.

P.S. There is a lot of other good stuff on the site besides the grid. Just go to http://www.characteranimator.com

3DQUAKERS
10-08-2006, 04:41 PM
You can add a nurbs grid and parent it to your camera.
Select your object and choose Deform by Surface
Move the points of the grid and the object will update.
Some minor scripting might be required to automate the activation/deactivation and other stuff...

tuna
10-08-2006, 04:59 PM
This looks like a really interesting idea, although it does look like it'd break a lot when the character is animated, no? It would be nice to see some more examples.

(Bernhard Haux has some pretty terrifying skills, the dancing in his animation reel was really great stuff.)

mdee
10-08-2006, 05:02 PM
Thanks for idea Charbel!. I'll test it a bit and hopefully come back with some result.

I don't know Tuna, it seems like purely finalizing tool.. (possibly working on baked mesh) I'd not use it to animate from scratch anyway :).

P.S. I tested quick deform by surface idea and it works, but I find a combination of lattice controlled by a gird a bit more controllable. That tool is fairly easy to recreate (probably devil is sitting in the details :) ), thanks again Charbel!

ShadowM8
10-08-2006, 05:16 PM
I can see this being useful for shot finaling. Quite a unique idea none the less.

tuna
10-08-2006, 05:31 PM
I don't know Tuna, it seems like purely finalizing tool.. (possibly working on baked mesh) I'd not use it to animate from scratch anyway :).

Well, yeah it's obviously something you'd use while finalizing, but if the character is animated, and moving across the screen, it looks like it probably wouldnt do a great job of blending the deformations as the character moved out of the area of the lattice you used. I guess if you constrained the lattice to the character it might help a bit.

Guess I just need to hear about it from someone who's actually used it properly.

pooby
10-08-2006, 05:51 PM
That was my thought too.. Especially with a camera move, I would have thought It'd be a nightmare to key.It's a really nice idea though. I'd love to see it in use on an animated character.
The most impressive thing on his site for me is that facial rig. I;d love to know what's going on there.

tuna
10-08-2006, 06:01 PM
The most impressive thing on his site for me is that facial rig. I;d love to know what's going on there.

Yeah :) His rigging stuff is really impressive, but what's also interesting is how he managed to get 4+ layers of control on a rig without it bogging the framerate down too much.

mdee
10-08-2006, 06:43 PM
Well, yeah it's obviously something you'd use while finalizing, but if the character is animated, and moving across the screen, it looks like it probably wouldnt do a great job of blending the deformations as the character moved out of the area of the lattice you used. I guess if you constrained the lattice to the character it might help a bit.

Guess I just need to hear about it from someone who's actually used it properly.

Yes, I think about it more like a more visual way of correcting deformation. Like you get baked mesh and you paint/model over deformations in not so great areas. This is rather not that uncommon thing nowadays. The grid method is just an easier way to do it and you can push it even fruther and add more silhouette/volume/whatnot control to your animation.
About face rig, yes, indeed, it's impressive. One of the methods of layering different control systems on top of each other is "dynamic shapes". Morph shapes which are updated dynamically, deformed on higher level by a set of controls. If it's good or bad for the frame rate, well depends on implementation.

tuna
10-08-2006, 07:11 PM
Yes, I think about it more like a more visual way of correcting deformation. Like you get baked mesh and you paint/model over deformations in not so great areas. This is rather not that uncommon thing nowadays. The grid method is just an easier way to do it and you can push it even fruther and add more silhouette/volume/whatnot control to your animation.


You're missing the point of my concerns, but nevermind.

T4D
10-09-2006, 04:06 AM
That was my thought too.. Especially with a camera move, I would have thought It'd be a nightmare to key.It's a really nice idea though. I'd love to see it in use on an animated character.
The most impressive thing on his site for me is that facial rig. I;d love to know what's going on there.

it's not that tricky really Notice he uses those Sqaures to attack he's weights ?
( to get the bendy arms chest etc )

in the head he rigs up he's eye ( lid etc) then parent the control node around the eye to a eye parent then the control nodes around the brow to another EYE parent

XSI is a system that only needs bones as a placemarkers for IK, throw all the rigging rules you had in Max LW or whatever out the window.
The system is complex But it's just layers, on layers, on layers ( something XSI excels at )
there are a complex Rig there, but simplier it, by cutting the issue of weighting out untill the very end ( this may help understand how he done it )

Pooby You'll be rigging this level by next week man :thumbsup:
IF not when I release my toon rigs you'll see how a dumb does it LOL :D
and you can then improve on my lame attemp at it :argh:

mocaw
10-09-2006, 07:42 AM
Yeah :) His rigging stuff is really impressive, but what's also interesting is how he managed to get 4+ layers of control on a rig without it bogging the framerate down too much.

Not that I've ever done anything that complex...but I find XSI VERY fast when doing deformations etc. so to me it makes sense that it wouldn't bogg way down. Notice he doesn't have the hedgehog running across the screen etc. that might be a different story then!

The facial rig is really extensive for such a character! Really amazing and looks like it's all heavly scripted deformations with little IK or weighting etc. It's like Face Robot light! Who knows how it's really done... Maybe The_JaCo or someone of such skill would know...but this guy isn't going to tell unless you give him a TD job!

Aren't you guys hiring Pooby?

pooby
10-09-2006, 09:56 AM
in the head he rigs up he's eye ( lid etc) then parent the control node around the eye to a eye parent then the control nodes around the brow to another EYE parent
I think its a bit more complex than that.. The eyeball shape is distorting quite a bit yet still rotating nicely. I think layers of lattices deforming lattices deforming geometry might be the key.
I had an experiment at it, and it works well.
It's quite refreshing being impressed with software rather than frustrated.

T4D
10-09-2006, 10:21 AM
If i got it wrong I've done an Excellent job of faking it :thumbsup:

basic method I used to reproduct that rig is something like this
the Eye mesh is enveloped to Null_A ( eye rotation )

Null_A and the Eye lid weight ( lid open/closed controled by Morphs but morphs value attach to a face control ) parented to Null B ( Eye size )

Lattive deform here if you wish ( i don't see the need, i prefer working with curves and weights and some open parenting with the curve nodes )

eye brows nodes ( and maybe if needed the low cheek nodes too ) parented to Null_C ( eye main face/eye Deformer )

you have 3 levels of control in this simple exsample for the eye,
you can add more layers between the eye brows and face before you get Null_C too.

I think Bernhard would have afew more layers in his exsample and some contrains etc to keep things playing nice, normal stuff you would do as you work .

Bernhard's reel is very inspiring stuff , I may have His Method wrong
but it got me to spend afew days trying :thumbsup:

Sorry I can't release my rig just yet, I got a rush job on, and it would be best to release a fully tested rig then a draft version. plus i want to release the messiah rig at the same time...

mocaw
10-09-2006, 10:59 PM
It's quite refreshing being impressed with software rather than frustrated.

Well I will not name names, but many of us have felt your pain, and now joy over such things. The problem is that until you try it for yourself...

It's just hard to explain that its the "journey" that's different- not the destination with certain applications and how important that difference can be. AKA work flow!

janimatic
10-12-2006, 04:16 PM
You can add a nurbs grid and parent it to your camera.
Select your object and choose Deform by Surface
Move the points of the grid and the object will update.
Some minor scripting might be required to automate the activation/deactivation and other stuff...
or branch select the scene root and choose deform by surface.
That way all the objects in the scene will be deformed by one deformer, which acts on camera_root...

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