Upgrade Pricing

[LemonNado]

Well... I'm not going to go to the website and sum all your 3726452332643 options up.
So I'll give you a definite maybe!
Rainer

[Roger Eberhart]

You would not need to upgrade AR or BP separately because they are part of the studio bundle that you're upgrading.

[LemonNado]

You would not need to upgrade AR or BP separately because they are part of the studio bundle that you're upgrading.

If he has BP as the standalone License , as I do.... Then he also has to update BP seperately. If he choses to.... Or sells the standalone as it is in 10 now. I am not sure regarding AR.... there have been updates in the past for AR which cost money...

Cheers
Rainer

[guardonduty]

It's $395.00. toooooooo much
http://www.maxonshop.com/us/gp/products.upgrades.main/100/429-1159974491-1456//

[fretshredder]

It's $395.00. toooooooo much
http://www.maxonshop.com/us/gp/products.upgrades.main/100/429-1159974491-1456//

You must not be reading that right. To upgrade from R9 STUDIO to R10 STUDIO is 1195 according to that page. I'd also have to purchase MoGraph seperately since it's not yet a part of the studio bundle...

So, my 1600 dollar quote is right on the money I suppose; guess I just had a bit of sticker shock. Seems a lot for a full upgrade (almost as much as I paid for it to begin with is all)

Also, I wonder if we'll get a point release without having to pay for that too? R8x got a few (or at least two) before 8.5 (paid), R9 got 1 before 9.r (paid) ... what of R10? :D

I am just a hobbyist, but one that saves up for these "hits" :)

[Roger Eberhart]

If he has BP as the standalone License , as I do.... Then he also has to update BP seperately. If he choses to.... Or sells the standalone as it is in 10 now. I am not sure regarding AR.... there have been updates in the past for AR which cost money...

Cheers
Rainer

Why continue upgrading standalone licenses if they're part of the main package? Seems like a big waste of money.

[Srek]

MoGraph is not yet part of any Bundle, so it has to be handled separately.
Cheers
Björn

[3DBond]

$295 for 9.5 to 10 is ok.

$195 for AR to work in 10 is ridiculous.

That will likely make it nearly a $500 USD upgrade for me. Guess I won't be adding another module afterall.

[LemonNado]

Why continue upgrading standalone licenses if they're part of the main package? Seems like a big waste of money.

You are right. I guess it's time to sell the standalone. Lot's of XSI peeps will love to get a fair deal on a BP license.

BP 2.5 standalone anyone?

No fair offers refused!
Rainer

[3DBond]

Just got off the phone with Maxon.

Yeah, I don't need Pyrocluster so including it in AR and charging me almost $200 + shipping just so it will function is R10 is not making me happy.

I'm really disappointed.

[chikega]

BP Standalone and Integrated were sold at the same price. I elected to get integrated BP ... there should be a discounted upgrade path for those who own BP (integrated) and XL, since we can't sell BP separately .. but we paid the same price as those who got standalone.

[bobzilla]

For the record, if it helps, I just upgraded my XL Bundle from 9.6 to 10 and it was $495.

If the Hair module actually put hair on my own head, I would have dropped the $395 for that, too!

[flingster]

well fretmeister...i'm in exactly the same position over in the UK,....sounds expensive..not checked on price yet to be honest over here.

studio bundle from 9 to 10 is what i need and mograph i guess since its crazyily not part of studio which can't be explained as far as i can tell given i've asked...if i hand my old manuals in do i get a recycling fee! lol...as these don't work with 10 anymore apparently...:twisted:

[Erik Heyninck]

If Mograph were part of the studio bundle and you didn't alreay have it, you'd have to pay more for the upgrade. That's perfectly logical to me. Guess what a noise it would make if two new modules had been added...
Yet, if you already have it, you get the update for free as it has not been changed. And if you don't wait too long. That's also very logical.

example:
I have upgraded to XL10. I have BP and Hair in 9.6. BP is now in the core module so it's not separate. Hair is a separate module for XL users, so I'll get the update for free because I order now.

I find the upgrade prices very reasonable. Suppose we talk plugins: what would you pay for:

Layered Objects: Say, 50Euro
Improved animation: 100Euro (at least!)
Improved Mocca: 100Euro (at least)
Pelt Mapping in BP: 150Euro.
RenderRegion in AR 2.6: I guess Paul's plugin was some 100Euro.

Grand Total: 500Euro.
Real Price: some 460Euro

What are we complaining about huh?

[flingster]

don't misunderstand me here...i know you'd pay for mograph and fully expected to thats not my point...its supposed to be studio bundle....not studio bundle plus another module and maybe another in a few months time..whats that all about?...why have the studio bundle in the first place...i don't get the logic at all...you're paying to have studio bundle to get the full suite of app not to mess about with bolt ons... i've seen it written before that maxon don't bundle on point releases so this means waiting until R11 to get mograph bundled in studio its just crazy talk...yes price of two modules might scare some people myself included but you're gonna end up paying for it anyways since what you're after is the suite of maxon apps...its doesn't follow the module paradigm to unbundle in this way which is effectively whats happened...are we saying that maxon are going to start making studio+ for all those modules that weren't bundled? modularisation is a pain at the best of times but with screwy logic like this to back it up its beginning to wear a little thin...
if they don't want to discount mograph as part of studio then why not say it...or are they saying mograph is not part of the maxon suite of apps...where will this leave us at update time! crazy

[chikega]

Well I spoke to Rafi and it looks like they can't do anything about people who invested in the "integrated" BP. We pay the same upgrade price as someone who never had BP. I told her it was unfair - because people who chose to go standalone can sell their copies to help defer the ugprade price for C4d.

Alas, I'm very perturbed in general with Maxon's upgrade policies. They have created a quagmire of convoluted upgrade paths and they choose to tie their license to a particular platform. I'm sorry Maxon .. although you have a seemingly great product .. your bean counters are making some very poor business decisions. I won't be upgrading. And as an adjunct professor of the Medical Illustration Program at the Medical College of Georgia, I convinced them 10yrs ago to go with C4d. I can no longer in good conscience recommend this program because of unfair and non-competitive upgrade policies.

[jkirk01]

LOL:applause: I just bought MoGraph and am just a pinch upset because had I an intuitive hit it was this close to being released, I don't think I would have. On the other hand I'm glad I bought HAIR because that provides me the least expensive upgrade path to Studio. A similar thing happened last time the upgrade cycle came around. I was punnished because I didn't buy into Sketch and was require to pay extra due to the module being "bundled" into Studio. This time it was HAIR. :shrug:

Here's my prediction for the next upgrade cycle. MoGraph will be bundled in the same fashion with Studio. Later next year Maxon will come out with a fluids module (don't really know, just a stab) and the cycle will start again. Similar complaints will ensue and we'll all have a dandy time again with all too familiar rant cycles. I love Cinema, I have a deep investment with it, and I don't think I'll leave but I want a linux render client darn it!

Render on... Rant over...

[DigiDon]

I just upgraded my 9.1 standard to 9.5 standard (295) and purchased BodyPaint integrated (495) 2 weeks ago and I also own AR. I just went to the Maxon site and figured out it would cost me another $800 to upgrade again just 2 weeks later. These peoples prices are insane. I will not be upgrading at these prices and looking for a new app. (Most other companies give you a break if you just purchased within 30 days or so of a new release but not Maxon). I feel like i was seriously ripped off here. They just lost a long time customer.

[Srek]

(Most other companies give you a break if you just purchased within 30 days or so of a new release but not Maxon)
Have you asked?
Cheers
Björn

[Continuumx]

You must not be reading that right. To upgrade from R9 STUDIO to R10 STUDIO is 1195 according to that page. I'd also have to purchase MoGraph seperately since it's not yet a part of the studio bundle...

So, my 1600 dollar quote is right on the money I suppose; guess I just had a bit of sticker shock. Seems a lot for a full upgrade (almost as much as I paid for it to begin with is all)

Also, I wonder if we'll get a point release without having to pay for that too? R8x got a few (or at least two) before 8.5 (paid), R9 got 1 before 9.r (paid) ... what of R10? :D

I am just a hobbyist, but one that saves up for these "hits" :)

Actually Release 9 got 2 free updates (9.1 & 9.6).

[talos72]

I am in an odd situation in that I don't have the studio bundle. However, I bought XL, then one by one added all the extra modules except Dynamics: I have Mograph, Hair and BP. Please tell me that I only need to pay $495 for R10 upgrade the XL suite and no other goofy fees so I can run the extra modules. And I have to concur, this modular thing is really a pain every time I have to upgrade because it becomes a confusing mess. My license is more than XL but less than studio, and do not tell me to just pay the extra cash for a studio license because I do not use Dynamics.

[Erik Heyninck]

Like Bjorn wrote: contact Maxon personally. In the worst of cases you get the updates for the modules you already own for free. To get Studio and not owning Dynamics, I'm afraid you'll probably have to pay a price for it.

[pid]

Studio Bundle: My intension was, when I bought it (R7.5), to have a suite with all possibilitys this fantastic 3D software supports. I didnt want to think about to buy a new module in the middle of a project (kills creativity) ... and I thought when I will update my Studio Bundle I always will get all the possibilities of the whole software ... and I thought If I support Maxon by buying the whole package they will honor it in future.
My fault was that I thought it would be a better invest to hold all modules, no matter if I need them now, than to go the other strategy: only buy what you need in this special moment.
That is what I can warmly recommend now: If you dont need R10 now buy it maybe half year later. If you dont need a special modul now, buy iot in maybe in 2 years ... and so on. At the end it is cheaper for the user … but Maxon has not as much money for developing as they could have. Thats what I cant understand.

My question to Maxon is: Why should I support you in getting resources for developing by buying and always updating the whole package, when I wont get sometimes some small presents? (in this case it would be mograph in the bundle for the same price or at least for a special price)

Nevertheless C4D is a fantastic software and I love it and it is developed well. But I dont like and cant understand Maxons Upgrade policy.

Pid

[Per-Anders]

Studio Bundle: My intension was, when I bought it (R7.5), to have a suite with all possibilitys this fantastic 3D software supports. I didnt want to think about to buy a new module in the middle of a project (kills creativity) ... and I thought when I will update my Studio Bundle I always will get all the possibilities of the whole software ... and I thought If I support Maxon by buying the whole package they will honor it in future.
My fault was that I thought it would be a better invest to hold all modules, no matter if I need them now, than to go the other strategy: only buy what you need in this special moment.
That is what I can warmly recommend now: If you dont need R10 now buy it maybe half year later. If you dont need a special modul now, buy iot in maybe in 2 years ... and so on. At the end it is cheaper for the user … but Maxon has not as much money for developing as they could have. Thats what I cant understand.

My question to Maxon is: Why should I support you in getting resources for developing by buying and always updating the whole package, when I wont get sometimes some small presents? (in this case it would be mograph in the bundle for the same price or at least for a special price)

Nevertheless C4D is a fantastic software and I love it and it is developed well. But I dont like and cant understand Maxons Upgrade policy.

Pid

You just got HAIR in the Studio Bundle (which wasn't before), MoGraph has only been out a few months it's too soon to add it to the studio bundle so what your'e saying doesn't make too much sense there. You also got a huge number of updates and improvements, a new timeline, a new character animation core, new ogl displays... that's what you're paying for if you choose to update, and what you're supporting, it's a lot of big presents. Of course it's got to be worth it for you, so if it is then great! Go for it! If not then you can always wait till an update comes along that does interest you.

[pid]

You just got HAIR in the Studio Bundle (which wasn't before), MoGraph has only been out a few months it's too soon to add it to the studio bundle so what your'e saying doesn't make too much sense there. You also got a huge number of updates and improvements, a new timeline, a new character animation core, new ogl displays... that's what you're paying for if you choose to update, and what you're supporting, it's a lot of big presents. Of course it's got to be worth it for you, so if it is then great! Go for it! If not then you can always wait till an update comes along that does interest you.

on the other hand: BodyPaint went to the core, PyroCluster went to AR ... and for the hair module you pay in fact in the same price as the single module. Just compare XL upgrade and studio upgrade price. ... and dont forget: we all pay for updating and improvements, they are not for nothing.

pid

[mecha]

I actually miss ranting about Maxons upgrade policy, it was one of the highlights of the software calender. Ah, memories.....

Seriously though, Core and XL owners (myself being a 9.6 XL with BP2.5 and Hair) cant really compliain too much - but if I owned and upgraded Studio then had to pay EXTRA for new modules I would be furious with Maxon. Its unbelievable really that a bundle that used to have everything, now has everything but the latest module because it is "too new"!!

Besides, with the cost of upgrading C4D at XL and Studio level its a wonder that Maxon doesnt just start a maintenance scheme and be done with it!

I just hope I can get a good deal on a BP2.5 to BP3/C4D Core and sell my 9.6XL Bundle. Can I render Hair in C4D10 Core?

[pid]

Seriously though, Core and XL owners (myself being a 9.6 XL with BP2.5 and Hair) cant really compliain too much - but if I owned and upgraded Studio then had to pay EXTRA for new modules I would be furious with Maxon. Its unbelievable really that a bundle that used to have everything, now has everything but the latest module because it is "too new"!!

right right

[basilisk]

I am a Studio owner, but the advantages of getting Studio are somewhat diminished, so I may save the cash and go for an XL upgrade. I never use dynamics or S&T anyway. I can understand Maxon needs to keep making a premium from selling Mograph separately, as there must have been a lot of upfront costs in developing it. Bodypaint on the other hand must have paid for its development costs very well by now, so they can afford to move it into the core. It would be nice to have Hair, but I don't think it will pay for itself anytime soon.

[Jake-L]

I am in an odd situation in that I don't have the studio bundle. However, I bought XL, then one by one added all the extra modules except Dynamics: I have Mograph, Hair and BP. Please tell me that I only need to pay $495 for R10 upgrade the XL suite and no other goofy fees so I can run the extra modules. And I have to concur, this modular thing is really a pain every time I have to upgrade because it becomes a confusing mess. My license is more than XL but less than studio, and do not tell me to just pay the extra cash for a studio license because I do not use Dynamics.

My situation exactly. Both Maxon and my reseller quoted the upgrade to Studio (+MoG Update) from this "XL++" config as 435 EUR. I thought that if it's almost the same price I might as well go for it.

/j

[LemonNado]

I can no longer in good conscience recommend this program because of unfair and non-competitive upgrade policies.
I cannot quite follow your line there. Compared to other products it is 'dirt cheap'. And if you take a closer look at the structure of the whole deal then you will see a clear path in the future. IMHO MAxon bend over backwards to accomodate all sorts of previous packagin possibilities. Maxon could as well have integrated everything into three packages as SoftImage did and then the studio bundle would also cost close to 2000$ for an upgrade as XSI does in that config. One has to keep things in relation..
Rainer

[Venkman]

Since switching to Maya, I'm wondering what the heck I used to complain about in regards to upgrade prices from Maxon.

C4d is dirt cheap for the amazing features you get.

Bodypaint stand alone, is IMO, a little expensive- considering you can get Modo for the same price or zBrush for a few hundred less. But then, that is competition with other apps, not upgrading, and zBrush has a bizarre interface. I already pay a premium for the "privelage" of using the Mac interface, so perhaps it is worth the extra couple hundred bucks simply to be able to figure out how to use the app. ;)

[moka.studio]

Bodypaint stand alone, is IMO, a little expensive- considering you can get Modo (modeling features an rendering built in) for the same price or zBrush for a few hundred less.

The new release of BP has all that as well, since the base version is now c4d+BP

[fretshredder]

Actually Release 9 got 2 free updates (9.1 & 9.6).

sure...after you PAID for 9.5 :D

[Venkman]

The new release of BP has all that as well, since the base version is now c4d+BP

I stand corrected. I have to get out of the old C4d mode (as in v8.5). That is pretty badass, especially being able to tweak your model in Bodypaint! The selection tools in C4d have always been a favorite of mine. Nice.

Damn, this is looking better and better. I may have to crack the piggy bank.

[mecha]

C4D Core and Bodypaint as one is HUGE, but entirely necessary since Modo arrived!

100% purchase if the LCSM is well implemented and plays nice with Maya!

mecha

[Venkman]

C4D Core and Bodypaint as one is HUGE, but entirely necessary since Modo arrived!

100% purchase if the LCSM is well implemented and plays nice with Maya!

mecha

Well, after a grassroots movement to get the Maya Roadkill plug ported to Maya on the Mac, it would be nice to have a solution that is not Mel or plugin based- but is an actual supported app like Bodypaint that is less affected by version changes of Maya. It may be worth it just for that!

My previous experience with maya and Bodypaint has been nothing but positive, but work (and moving, and weddings, ugh, I hate september) has kept me from 3d as of late and I haven't tried the BP3 demo yet. I think it looks damn hot.

[DigiDon]

Have you asked?
Cheers
Björn

Yes I have, they can do nothing for me, pretty bad way to treat your loyal customers if you ask me.

[fretshredder]

agreed! I was told the same thing. And for somone that's been loyal since R8's first release I am a bit dismayed at this apparent lack of that fact.

[dfaris]

agreed! I was told the same thing. And for somone that's been loyal since R8's first release I am a bit dismayed at this apparent lack of that fact.

Its the same old thing. Maxon charges the people that have supported there products the same amount as the people that didn't. Bad way to deal with people that support them and it will bite them in the butt pretty soon. Bought Modo 4 month ago and got the updates from 1.x to 201 for free.

I dont think I will be updating to C4D 10 or any other release until Maxon changes its pricing.

[Venkman]

Its the same old thing. Maxon charges the people that have supported there products the same amount as the people that didn't. Bad way to deal with people that support them and it will bite them in the butt pretty soon. Bought Modo 4 month ago and got the updates from 1.x to 201 for free.

I dont think I will be updating to C4D 10 or any other release until Maxon changes its pricing.

You might find that the grass is always greener.

Try Maya for example. I have version 7 complete, it cost about $2000. Maya 8 came out, and I do not want to upgrade for what I feel is a pretty weak release in regards to new/improved features. That upgrade is $800 or so.

But, for people who are two versions behind, they effectively must "re-buy" the software, paying full price again. (that's $2000 for complete, $7000 for unlimited).

You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. At least with Maxon you only pay for stuff you use, and have the option to say, get cloth or hair seperate from upgrading to a $7000 package like Maya unlimited (the only way to get Maya cloth, hair, and fluids).

But you may find this suits you. I don't know. Just know that upgrading software always makes someone unhappy, be it the hobbyist or power user. Nobody likes to pay for stuff that does not benefit them.

but if you like C4d, and can do great work with their tools, then stick with it. If you need to switch for other reasons, do your research.

[flingster]

ooo that seems quite expensive upgrade i guess you get a lot but studio seems quiet steep i guess you get hair and R10..nevertheless..we'll see. can't remember what i paid in the past will have to dig around. the best deal really is core the rest are just normal from what i can tell.

[sjmcc]

Maybe this has been brought up already. I just visited the us maxon shop. I have the 9.5 studio bundle without the hair module. The upgrade price with hair is 495. Fair enough. The price if you don't have hair is 995. The hair module as an individual product only costs 395. So basically for being a loyal user who is looking to upgrade I get to pay an extra 105 for the hair module. That is just f***ked. Either someone overlooked something or else someone made a really bad decision. Maybe I am overlooking something obvious, but if not, I sure hope someone can explain why I will be getting the shaft in this deal. I don't mind paying the fair price for hair and will probably go ahead and get mograph as well. The whole idea for me in getting the studio bundle was to have everything and not have to deal with the module mess during upgrade time. If anything as a studio bundle owner you think you would get a deal on hair. The studio bundle is not what it was with bodypaint ( the most expensive module ) and pyrocluster now integrated with other modules, not to mention that it still does not include mograph.

[Chadman]

In general for the R9.6XL to R10XL upgrade the cost is what l roughly expected ($814 AUD), but l also have Hair, Mograph & BP2.5 so l am playing with the idea of updating to R10 STUDIO.

The only thing that really makes me shake my head is that MAXON will acknowledge the fact that if you have R9.6 STUDIO & then bought Hair and you are wanting to upgrade to R10 STUDIO then they will reduce your upgrade fee from $1474 AUD to $814 AUD so this comes to $660 AUD reduction because you have already invested in the Hair module and this is how it should be.

But with the R9.6XL to R10 STUDIO upgrade there is no reduction off the $2585 AUD fee if you also own Hair. That is just not on to say that we will acknowledge one customer for buying Hair but not another.

Chad P :banghead:

[ooo]

In general for the R9.6XL to R10XL upgrade the cost is what l roughly expected ($814 AUD), but l also have Hair, Mograph & BP2.5 so l am playing with the idea of updating to R10 STUDIO.

The only thing that really makes me shake my head is that MAXON will acknowledge the fact that if you have R9.6 STUDIO & then bought Hair and you are wanting to upgrade to R10 STUDIO then they will reduce your upgrade fee from $1474 AUD to $814 AUD so this comes to $660 AUD reduction because you have already invested in the Hair module and this is how it should be.

But with the R9.6XL to R10 STUDIO upgrade there is no reduction off the $2585 AUD fee if you also own Hair. That is just not on to say that we will acknowledge one customer for buying Hair but not another.

Chad P :banghead:

I'm in the exact same position and also considering the Studio Upgrade. My reseller still hasn't got their upgradeprices ready so I'll have to wait and see if they can make me an offer for XL > Studio upgrade minus Hair price. I hope they can make a fair offer.

odo

[helluvapixel]

Software upgrades are a quagmire of fine print reading and it's awful. However at the end it is your choice what to do. However, out of any applications from my perspective Maxon has taken the most expensive route for their users.

Let's entertain the field, and I'm basing my observations on a yearly upgrade schedule where one MUST upgrade for the cheapest price per package. I'm using Modo, Lightwave, XSI Essentials, C4D Studio and 3DS Max as my baseline as I own these apps (with exception of Max).

Modo - $895 Base - $495 upgrade ($295 early adopter upgrade)
Lightwave - $795 Base - $495 upgrade
XSI Essentials - $1995 Base - $799 maintenance ($999 post maintenance schedule)
C4D Studio - $3495 Base - $495 point release + $495 point to full = $990 upgrade
3DS Max - $3495 Base - $700 maintenance

As you can see Maxon is the most expensive, and they charge for ".5" releases. Whereas XSI and 3DS Max are sligthly cheaper and you basically are getting all versions for the one price.

The field is obviously not level as Essentials doesn't have hair... however you get penalized as lesser versions will inherit 'modules' from the higher versions. For example, Essentials inherited the compositor from Advanced when Advanced gained newer functionality.

Conversely, Maxon punishes the customers that bought BP as an integerated module. I suppose one can argue if you are a Studio owner you do get a reprieve as you get Hair as a gimme as long as you don't own Hair already. So XL users are getting a bit of a shaft job.

To cap it all off, if I don't upgrade on each release I pay a penalty, so say users from 9.1 to 10 pay $595 or $695.

Release 10 looks good, the OpenGL and new interface with some workflow improvements are good. Good enough for me??? I don't know, considering I deal with high polygon scenes and yet still there is no advancement for GI or AO rendering, both are painfully slow. Yes finalRender is great but it's a risk since there is not a seamless cooperation with cebas and Maxon.

I'm not entirely sold as I 'm not an XL or Studio owner; I own XL + Dynamics, + S&T + BP. Coupled with the fact that so far the R10 demo is buggy as hell and the IRR is dead slow with large scenes (did Maxon actually put R&D in there is it simply the OLD sniper pro which sorely needed work).

For non character animators I see R10 as an odd release upgrade. I am mixed on how to proceed. Odd considering I was fast to grab the previous releases.

[talos72]

Given I mostly use C4D for still images and illustration, is there a compeling reason to upgrade to R10 from 9.6? I am curious.

[JensDa]

Modo - $895 Base - $495 upgrade ($295 early adopter upgrade)
Lightwave - $795 Base - $495 upgrade
XSI Essentials - $1995 Base - $799 maintenance ($999 post maintenance schedule)
C4D Studio - $3495 Base - $495 point release + $495 point to full = $990 upgrade
3DS Max - $3495 Base - $700 maintenance

As you can see Maxon is the most expensive, and they charge for ".5" releases. Whereas XSI and 3DS Max are sligthly cheaper and you basically are getting all versions for the one price.



I think you have to pay maintenance (Max, XSI) per year. With Maxon it's one year point release, next year full release, normally with the addition of one new module every two years. So in the end it is about the same as with Max and XSI (don't know about Maya).

Well, the current price of Lightwave-Upgrades (i own LW too) is cheaper but everybody knows why and Modo is no full blown 3D application at the moment.

Cheers

Jens

[AdamT]

One thing to keep in mind is that Maxon's .5 releases are often bigger (and much cheaper) than other companies' full version upgrades. Also, no one is forcing you to buy the .5 release--you could skip it and then the C4D upgrade would be as cheap or cheaper than any. It's also a little more complicated if you didn't already own BP and/or Hair.... etc.

Anyway--it's a quagmire.

[4dthieves]

I own the Studio Bundle fully loaded with Hair, MoGraph... everything.
Quoted upgrade price for v10 was $495.

As I see it, the major improvements are MOCCA and the Timeline/Layer/UI. I think each are worth about $250. Although I'm not a heavy user of MOCCA I can justify the cost (and to be quite honest it will be absorbed by my clients).

Still, I don't care for how the inclusion of BP into the core and Pyro into AR are listed as "Features"... it's no gift for me, I paid for them. I suppose it comes down to whether you want to reward or exploit your highest paying customers. I suppose good business does a little of both.

-m

[helluvapixel]

One thing to keep in mind is that Maxon's .5 releases are often bigger (and much cheaper) than other companies' full version upgrades.

9-> 9.5 was $495?? That's what I recall paying. I may be wrong.
9.5->10 is $495 (guessing, on average).

my point was simple, I was comparing maintenance on an equal level. Max and XSI are yearly so to equate that I included the .5 release. Also, you are charged extra from Maxon whenever you skip releases. This isn't true with other vendors in all cases.

[Per-Anders]

9-> 9.5 was $495?? That's what I recall paying. I may be wrong.
9.5->10 is $495 (guessing, on average).

my point was simple, I was comparing maintenance on an equal level. Max and XSI are yearly so to equate that I included the .5 release. Also, you are charged extra from Maxon whenever you skip releases. This isn't true with other vendors in all cases.

No, the flaw in your logic is that Softimage have charged for .5 upgrades to as have Alias (Autodesk) and Newtek. You can also buy maintenance contracts, but again remember that Maya and XSI based on past experience do not go a whole point a year but a half point every year. Furthermore as pointed out earlier if you fall behind then especially with maya expect to pay the full price again to catch up. I'd not consider the numerical value behind a products name to be indicative of the quality or value of an update or product either, otherwise clearly XSI must be a very poor product only at level 5.11 :D, the maya, max and lightwave full updates really, well i can't see them as being in general terms as good value as the cinema ones either.

[acmepixel]

Overall, I'm pretty happy.

[note; just to add a little fuel to the fire; Jason listed Lightwave's upgrade at $495 I paid only $395 for the Pre Release upgrade, combo deal, of Vue 5 Infinite+LW 8+LW 9+LW CadTools. And I owned only version 6.]

Maxon's upgrades are relatively fair. But this time around, I learned my lesson. Some of you may remember my bitching about this when r9 was released.
The last time I upgraded [from r7 to r8] I also bought all the point five goodies when they came along. That was my mistake. I call it the point five penalty. Because Maxon does not offer an upgrade price from a point five level, only a point zero level. So when r9 came out I was faced with a higher price to upgrade than what I'm facing now with r10. From what I've seen on the upgrade page, I'm looking at an upgrade price that's $200 or so, less than the r9 upgrade. In no small part because of the generous inclusion of BodyPaint in the Core module. To summarize; I had 8.5 and had to hold out for the next full point release [r10] in order to escape the ''point five penalty''.

Maxon is the only 3D co. that I know of that offers so many options.
Live and learn. Eh? Playing ''leapfrog'' with point releases can pay off. :love:
(But only when the Software company doesn't penalize for it. [like Autodesk Max and Maya, Form-Z, etc.).

[helluvapixel]

No, the flaw in your logic is that Softimage have charged for .5 upgrades to as have Alias (Autodesk) and Newtek. You can also buy maintenance contracts, but again remember that Maya and XSI based on past experience do not go a whole point a year but a half point every year.

Please, let's stick to what I illustrated. I merely pointed out the annual maintenance cost. I didn't necessarily say who put out a point release or full upgrade every year. However, I see your point in that if Maxon didn't release an update for 3 years it would be cheaper. However, that isn't realistic.

[Per-Anders]

Please, let's stick to what I illustrated. I merely pointed out the annual maintenance cost. I didn't necessarily say who put out a point release or full upgrade every year. However, I see your point in that if Maxon didn't release an update for 3 years it would be cheaper. However, that isn't realistic.

I am sticking to what you illustrated. Your original point was to put both the maxon point upgrade and the full upgrade togehter into one price. But C4D currently updates at about 0.5 per year, so it's only one of those values, unless you're willing to add the .5 update prices to the other software too to make it fair.

[sjmcc]

I think Maxon's upgrade pricing is very fair all in all. The inculsion of bodypaint in the core has definitly lost the studio bundle some of its value, even if it was the right thing for them to do. My only beef is having to pay $500 for a $400 module. I just don't get this one.

[ThirdEye]

I don't understand how people can compare a software like C4D (or XSI, or Maya, or Max) to something like Lightwave that stayed in the stone age for years or Modo which doesn't even have animation.

[Johnny Jpeg]

Personally, I'm glad to see a company that is putting the logical needs of it's customers ahead of profits. At a time when most companies are breaking out some specific functionality into a completely separate product in order to expand their product line and profits, it's very impressive to see Maxon integrate BP with the core. It makes sense from the customer's perspective, which is a perspective very few companies seem interested in these days.
I'm a motion graphics guy, and this upgrade is a no-brainer. The timeline alone is worth the price. Compare the what you're getting in Maxon's upgrades to what other companies offer - I can't think of another software package that I use that regularly has such substantial upgrades, regardless of the price.

kudos Maxon.

[helluvapixel]

I'm basing my observations on a yearly upgrade schedule where one MUST upgrade for the cheapest price per package.

Per-Anders, You may have missed this point I made in the first post. I am merely looking at the annual price to maintain a product without penalty. I in know way was competing what the companies did for that maintenance.

I haven't been charged for a point release by Softimage. Lightwave treated point 5 releases as relatively major releases.

However, I am ONLY looking at the annual maintenance cost wherein I will not have to pay penalties. With Maxon, if I skip a .5 release I have to pay an additional cost to go from major release to release (9.0 to 10.0 for example).

[Per-Anders]

Per-Anders, You may have missed this point I made in the first post. I am merely looking at the annual price to maintain a product without penalty. I in know way was competing what the companies did for that maintenance.
Then it's still wrong and you're still missing my point. The anual price for C4D is as I said just one of those figures not both combined, it has been currently upgrading by .5 per year, i.e. one or other of those figures, not by two whole paid for versions, usually included in that are one or sometimes two free updates including usually new features and bugfixes.
I haven't been charged for a point release by Softimage. Lightwave treated point 5 releases as relatively major releases.
How long have you owned XSI? I seem to recall them charging for 4.5 from 4.0 but maybe i'm imagining things there. There hasn't been a 5.5 yet (and may not be). Maya certainly was a charged upgrade for each .5 release as well as the whole number releases.
However, I am ONLY looking at the annual maintenance cost wherein I will not have to pay penalties. With Maxon, if I skip a .5 release I have to pay an additional cost to go from major release to release (9.0 to 10.0 for example).
But you're not looking at the annual mantenance costs because C4D's doesn't equal what you say it does annually. And yes with C4D you do have to pay an additional cost, but that's the same with most apps, as pointed out before if you skip a version with Maya/Max you have to pay the full cost again, so the whole argument which was Cinema is the most expensive isn't true on any of the points you made based on the criteria you put forward.

[helluvapixel]

Then it's still wrong and you're still missing my point.

Hahah.. I'm so thick today... maybe I need to take a rest. Deadlines... love their effect on sleep.

I finally see thru the haze my friend. I for some reason saw the .5 as a 1/2 year release cycle (i.e. 2 releases per year).

Option 1: Pay for every release (i.e. 9 to 9.5 to 10), then this would be the $495

OR

Option 2: Pay for the major release only, and pay the penalty which could be $100-200. In this case had I skipped 9.5 my upgrade cost may be $595 or $695 depending on the penalty figure. Which is an upgrade every 2 years.

Excuse my mistake.

[AdamT]

Option 2: Pay for the major release only, and pay the penalty which could be $100-200. In this case had I skipped 9.5 my upgrade cost may be $595 or $695 depending on the penalty figure. Which is an upgrade every 2 years.

Excuse my mistake.
Right, and since a major upgrade comes every two years (or thereabout) it averages to $300-350/year. Considerably less than the subscription plans you listed.

[4dthieves]

I think Maxon's upgrade pricing is very fair all in all. The inclusion of bodypaint in the core has definitely lost the studio bundle some of its value, even if it was the right thing for them to do. My only beef is having to pay $500 for a $400 module. I just don't get this one.
The modules are specialty tools for the most part. I tried to make hair with polygons before I owned Hair... believe me, it's DEFINITELY worth the price. S&T is the most powerful toon-shader I've ever used. I continue to find new undiscovered layers within it. I can't even think of a comparable tool on the market that can do what MoGraph can do. What's that worth?

-m

[sjmcc]

4dthieves, Hair is certainly worth it. After using it in the demo it is a must have. But if you look in the maxon shop it costs 395 for the module. So why are they charging an extra 500 to upgrade my studio bundle because I don't own it already?

[4dthieves]

4dthieves, Hair is certainly worth it. After using it in the demo it is a must have. But if you look in the maxon shop it costs 395 for the module. So why are they charging an extra 500 to upgrade my studio bundle because I don't own it already?
I think I misunderstood your post.
You're absolutely right.

-m

[flingster]

not sure whether this is really the case and its a perception rather than based on any factual knowledge but i just get the impression maintenance fees stiffle development where they shouldn't...eg company takes maintenance...thank you and worries a little less about sales since it already has the maintenance fee and so development/improvement seem to slow a little..eg the pace of development is slowed....whereas those who don't seem to push further quicker...however i would add there are benefits to maintenance fees also from a support point of view i guess...dunno i'm not keen on maintenance fees i think it makes them fat and lazy...but that just an opinion at the end of the day and i'm sure someone more knowledgable will be able to put me right on this. :-)
you'd think getting a maintenance fee would mean they'd beable to do more long term as some financial risk is avoided but doesn't seem to pan out that way.

[Venkman]

Well, I just got this quote from Rafi in an email:


- CAUTION PRICE INCREASE AHEAD -- There will be a substantial price increase with the Release of
R10 for new licenses

[fretshredder]

scare tactics? c'mon MAXON :eek:

[Venkman]

scare tactics? c'mon MAXON :eek:


I think it's all in how you read it. I took it as the "monster truck rally announcer" yelling it at me:

"SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY! MASSIVE PRICE INCREASES AHEAD!"

It was very entertaining.


I went through the whole form for downloading the BP3 demo, which is not out yet. Darn.

[AdamT]

I think it's not a bluff, but has to do with exchange rates which have gone way south for the dollar vs. the Euro over the last few years, but with no commensurate price adjustment from Maxon USA until....

[talos72]

I too just got the email about price increase. I'll be honest, I have been a C4D customer since R6 and it is becomming less and less enticing for me to keep up with the upgrades.

[RickBarrett]

Just to be clear - I haven't seen the email but the price increases Rafi is talking about are the increases in retail price from R9 to R10.

As Adam said, we're having to increase our prices here in the US because the dollar has fallen so dramatically in value in relation to other world currencies in the past few years, and we need to keep our prices and margins in line with those of other countries.

If you need an additional license, or haven't yet purchased C4D, it would definitely benefit you to take advantage of the current offer to buy R9 and receive a free upgrade to R10, because you're able to purchase still at the old R9 prices.

Existing users shouldn't see any changes to the upgrade prices posted on maxonshop for some time.

[Continuumx]

Just to be clear - I haven't seen the email but the price increases Rafi is talking about are the increases in retail price from R9 to R10.

As Adam said, we're having to increase our prices here in the US because the dollar has fallen so dramatically in value in relation to other world currencies in the past few years, and we need to keep our prices and margins in line with those of other countries.

If you need an additional license, or haven't yet purchased C4D, it would definitely benefit you to take advantage of the current offer to buy R9 and receive a free upgrade to R10, because you're able to purchase still at the old R9 prices.

Existing users shouldn't see any changes to the upgrade prices posted on maxonshop for some time.

Hello Rick, does this also apply for purchase of new modules such as Mograph?

[RickBarrett]

Hello Rick, does this also apply for purchase of new modules such as Mograph?

The "new" pricing is already reflected on maxonshop.com - some module prices have changed, but in the case of MoGraph I think the pricing has remained the same. Since the module is fairly recent, the pricing was already pretty much in line with current dollar values.

It's kind-of rough, because those of us in the US aren't used to dealing with exchange rates and price fluctuations like this are usually buried in the cost of the product. Unfortunately many speculate that the dollar will continue to fall even further in value. Nevertheless, we'll do our best to keep prices for C4D as steady and reasonable as possible.

- Rick -

[flingster]

i complained last time that the uk customer was paying more than the us customer last updat round...however this wasn't exactly the way i wanted it aligning...i've always asked to see that everyone pays the same price for the product...possibly small margin for language pack but even that don't like much really... still think we should all pay same price whether this new alignment means thats the case can't say but its a pity the us customers are going to see a dramatic price increase...and not everyone pay the same levels as a us customer and the rest of us see the price go down a little...unfortunately it never seems to work like this despite presumably better sales results than ever. arh well contensious issue once again put my head above the parapet to get it shot at...ducks for cover.:shrug:

[helluvapixel]

What I don't like is 'forced' pricing upgrades. Look at studio bundle now. Regularly the upgrade would be about $495 but now because with R10 the studio bundle contains hair Studio users are forced to pay for hair so that's now a $990 ($100 less if you order Hair now). upgrade. There is no adjustment made for the fact BP is rolled into the C4D core.

IMO, Maxon should have adjusted for BP and Hair so that Studio users didn't get a forced upgrade. As it is now, I see no adjustment for the role in of BP for those who either purchased the Standalone, Module or had Studio Bundle.

[flingster]

What I don't like is 'forced' pricing upgrades. Look at studio bundle now. Regularly the upgrade would be about $495 but now because with R10 the studio bundle contains hair Studio users are forced to pay for hair so that's now a $990 ($100 less if you order Hair now). upgrade. There is no adjustment made for the fact BP is rolled into the C4D core.

IMO, Maxon should have adjusted for BP and Hair so that Studio users didn't get a forced upgrade. As it is now, I see no adjustment for the role in of BP for those who either purchased the Standalone, Module or had Studio Bundle.


This is a good point really i need to update studio...i don't really want hair..i'd rather have Mograph...can i swap?

[helluvapixel]

This is a good point really i need to update studio...i don't really want hair..i'd rather have Mograph...can i swap?

I didn't ask, but I doubt it since you can't swap out modules in the bundles. :(

[ooo]

For me it's a great opportunity to upgrade from XL to studio. Because I already have hair I get an extra discount. Not bad!

odo

[fretshredder]

Well, I just took the plunge and upgraded to R10 studio. This may very well be my last upgrade because it's getting prohibitively expensive for this hobbyist. However, I know I'll enjoy this update, and we'll see what happens.

The good thing is my wallet is A LOT lighter now :D

[flingster]

i'd agree with you really its getting prohibitively expensive for the amatuer or hobbyist type users....shame really. was talking to someone else about this the other day the options are limiting despite the 3d markets falls in app prices in recent years. given maxons pace of development it can make it a very expensive hobby.

[Venkman]

Edit- price fixed. Cool.

[RickBarrett]

I hope that's a typo!

It is. Thanks for the heads up - it's been fixed in the shop.

Rick

[Erik Heyninck]

More expensive?

When I started with Cinema I bought Art6 with Bodypaint 3D. Art had no animation. I had to buy SLA separately. Total price: some 1300 Euro.

Now you buy C4D10 core with Bodypaint 3 included for how much?

Pyrocluster was a separate module and had its own price. If you wanted it, and wanted AR also, you paid for both.
Now you get Core10 plus Bodypaint3 plus AR2.6 plus Pyro for how much?

Prices and ease of use stayed approximately the same, only the quality of the tools got ten times better.

[talos72]

For me it's a great opportunity to upgrade from XL to studio. Because I already have hair I get an extra discount. Not bad!


I talked to Rafi about possibly upgrading from XL to Studio, given I have all the modules except for Dynamics and Net Render...but still I would have to pay around $700-800 plus. A bit steep for my taste given I mostly do illustrations: no need for Net Render or Dynamics. In either case, most of the big updates for R10 seem to center around character animation, as Maxon's site also mentions. So unless you are itching for new character tools, if you are an illustrator or an arch-viz guy (a good chunk of the C4D users) you should be ok with R9...IMHO.

[ThirdEye]

So unless you are itching for new character tools, if you are an illustrator or an arch-viz guy (a good chunk of the C4D users) you should be ok with R9...IMHO.

Can't do anything without layers on my arch-viz projects. Also i can't animate shit in r9 while i feel comfy in 10.

[Continuumx]

Can't do anything without layers on my arch-viz projects. Also i can't animate shit in r9 while i feel comfy in 10.

Wholeheartedly agree with this comment. For some reason, I have never touched animation prior to R10 demo. The the improved animation timeline, its very fluid and begs for mix of design and animation.

[mmhnemo]

What I don't like is 'forced' pricing upgrades. Look at studio bundle now. Regularly the upgrade would be about $495 but now because with R10 the studio bundle contains hair Studio users are forced to pay for hair so that's now a $990 ($100 less if you order Hair now). upgrade. There is no adjustment made for the fact BP is rolled into the C4D core.

IMO, Maxon should have adjusted for BP and Hair so that Studio users didn't get a forced upgrade. As it is now, I see no adjustment for the role in of BP for those who either purchased the Standalone, Module or had Studio Bundle.

Totally agree. Studio owners w/o hair get the shaft in this one.
Especially bad since hair itself was already a boot in the butt to Shave owners at the time :/

I'm seriously considering leaving this studio route...

[fretshredder]

Studio owners w/o hair get the shaft in this one.
...I'm seriously considering leaving this studio route...

Yes, and yes as well :)

[nirrad]

if you buy 9.6 on clearance ($695) before r10 ships you get a free upgrade to r10.
check the clearance page in the maxon store.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.