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madmenno
10-04-2006, 05:40 PM
Hi,

I bought a book that shouls aid me with my texturing skills. So i created this thread to show my props and textures and ask questions related to my textures. I also like critics and pointers on any aspect of the model or texture. I'm using 3D Max to model and photoshop to texture.

I start with this fantasy style treasure chest, counting 40 tri's and 3 256*256 maps for difuse, specular and normalmap.

I'm rather new to normal mapping, and i'm wondering if i'm doing this correct. I use the photoshop .dds/normal map plug in. And use that on the black and white image i posted here. Then i put the normall map in the bump map slot in max. First, it does not show up in viewport (i did put on direct 3d driver with directx 9.0). With a render it does do the job but not looking correct.

Later!

Vladislav-Ivanov
10-04-2006, 05:48 PM
Nice and clean.
One thing only the chest lid/cover doesnt look good , u wont find a chest with bended timber like that, I'd suggest u to rotate the UV coordinates.

______________________

www.vladislav-ivanov.com (http://www.vladislav-ivanov.com)

madmenno
10-04-2006, 07:35 PM
Yeah i noticed to late. Now i have to recreate the wood layer under it. Problem is, i don't know my color settings i used so it's hard to match up the other wood color. I do try to fix it up.

Anyway, i did a floor texture of 512*512, it's tiled 4 times over the plane. Also made a normall and specular map for it but it won't show somehow :(. Do i need to put my normall map in another slot in max?

madmenno
10-04-2006, 10:07 PM
I did some rather simple ones befor i go to bed :D.

Gamedev
10-04-2006, 11:07 PM
Check out my signature for a inrto to normal mapping video. It will show you how to get your normal to display in viewport as well as creating one from a high resolution model.

As for the texture work, I'd say your diffuse map is a bit bland on the chest. It needs some more wear, color varation and dirt in general. Good start.

Serum
10-05-2006, 06:30 AM
"i don't know my color settings i used so it's hard to match up the other wood color"

Use the eyedropper tool?

madmenno
10-05-2006, 03:44 PM
Thnx, gonna watch that vid.

I did some filtering and then some brightness/contrast changes so even with the eyedropper tool i won't come close enough to my original colors. I can however tweak for till it's good, but i'm still noob :D. Gonna try it anyway so don't worry.

Textures are almost only done with filters (thats what the book is about). So thats probably why my textures look too clean. I tried a quick search for dirt info in the book but nothing found yet. I can however add some dirt/scratches myself later, but for now i will do what the book tells me just to keep things a little less complecated. For the walls i just made a simple pattern and non uniformly scaled it up to make the horizontal ridges bigger.

However my book has tutorials on textures, but sometimes it explaines it realy wrong.
For instance:
->noise->noise-> 7,5%
Theres nothing about other settings, so by default it would be color noise. And i bet he means monochromatic noise.
Or
->use difference clouds 5 times
And when i use them 5 times there comes a gap in my clouds with a total different color and my texture looks way weird.

Also it reffers in later textures to other textures and there layers, but he names them wrong somehow as i can't find some of those names anywhere.

Anyway i tried to find his email in the book but could not find it. I probably can find it around the web somewhere.

Thanks for your input!

-PS-
Do you get a better normal map if you bake it from a high resolution model then if you paint a black and white image and use the plugin for it? As i'd rather stick to the nvidia plug in unless i get lot better results from baking a high poly model into it. Or i should just buy zbrush or something like that :D.

TychoCelchuuu
10-05-2006, 04:23 PM
Except for a few cases, your normal map will probably look better if you build a hi-res mesh, in 3dsmax or in ZBrush or in whatever.

Gamedev
10-05-2006, 04:31 PM
if you're using photoshop for your textures, a really simple way to match up colors / textures / whatever is to use the 'Match Color' adjustment. 'Image > Adjustments > Color '. Have your source image selected then from the drop down of the adjustment choose the image you want to match color to.

madmenno
10-05-2006, 04:56 PM
Nice tutorial, thnx a lot for that. It's nice and clear.

And Gamedev, i should realy look in to that.

I droped my normall right in the bump slot instead of making it normall bump first.

I do have one more question though... If i add a bump map my texture won't tile in the viewport. Both maps have the correct tiling settings but it won't show in viewport. It's good when i render but i kinda need it good in the viewport also.

Also if i render the view it's always the same level of bump. So if i change the bump amount, it changes in the viewport but it will still just renders the same old bumpmap it had before the amount change.

And maybe i should read the .dds plugin for PS, i just discovered i could change the strongness on bumpmaps itself.

-edit-
Ok i fixed that wood, doin the color was pretty easy in this case. And made it better i think... in a way of color choice. Also made the wood look a bit rough but not sure if it does it good or bad.

Anyway, i'm thinking of making a new chest texture. I want to creat a nice design for the metal around it. I should fiddle around with the pen tool more. I need to give it more character cause now it's the one in a billion chest. I still want to keep the fantasy setting.

Btw any good tutorial on making your own ornaments and shapes in PS? I still can't use the pen tool efficiently... it's so confusing, is it possible to manipulate both corners? like in the bezier corner in max splines.

madmenno
10-06-2006, 05:29 PM
Ok i'm posting an update on the new texture. Didn't do any normal maps or specular maps yet.

Any sugestions?

-EDIT-

Added normal and specular map. Gonne try adding some more details.

SylvanMist
10-06-2006, 05:57 PM
Don't even worry about normal/spec/etc mapping. Get better at making a nice diffuse texture. It needs more dust & scratches, more signs of wear, more details in the texture itself.
For ideas and inspiration, look at some screenshots from some big games, or around here in these forums, look at what the pros are doing and then try to get up to those standards.

madmenno
10-06-2006, 08:13 PM
Hehe, yeah i'm focusing mainly on the defuse texture. I try to add some scratches and dirt.

madmenno
10-06-2006, 09:42 PM
Tried to make it look aged. Added scratches and dirt and changed the gold again.

tofugorilla
10-06-2006, 11:09 PM
So you have a good start. I suggest you do a few things to make your objects more realistic:

Get reference and lots of it- Reference will always give you a better idea of what an object looks like than building straight out of your head. Even if it's just something that is similar looking in color and materials but not shape or function can help a whole lot.

Think about how the object was actually built. Add nails, cracks and seams, stains and scratches, any think that makes it more believable.

Forget about bump/spec/normal maps until you have a good looking texture. Then go crazy.

Dont be afraid to incorporate photos in your textures. Even the best texture artists I know can't paint a texture that is as accuate as a photo in any reasonable ammount of time.

Hope this helps :)

Tofu

DooFi
10-07-2006, 01:26 AM
For dirt make yourself lots of grunge-, dirt-, stain-brushes and so on and use the jitter features of your brush. Then paint the stuff with randomly on places where dirtyings would occur most likely and set the layer to burn or whatever.
Also your chest is missing a lock, but I suggest you model it. That could also be useful when the player for example has to break it open.


http://www.valuezone.co.uk/images/treasure.gif
http://www.treasurehuntjewelry.com/treasure%20chest.jpg
http://mishami.image.pbase.com/u10/laine82/large/37948034.MyTreasureChest.jpg
http://www.centurynovelty.com/catImages/014-50356_large.jpg
http://download.101com.com/pub/adtmag/images/0510_dc3.jpg

madmenno
10-07-2006, 11:31 PM
Hey folks, something terrible has happend. I cleaned my van on my video card and when i got it back in my screen stayed black. So i think i broke it or something :(.

Anyway, got an old computer up and running but it's.... like antique... Tomorow i will be testing if it is the video card thats broken.

2 minutes silence for my video card is the only thing i ask :D.

Gamedev
10-07-2006, 11:52 PM
its amazing what some people will do to get out re-working a model! Hahah, only kidding. Sorry to hear your video card died. You sure you hooked everything up right?

madmenno
10-08-2006, 08:19 PM
Yeah i'm pretty sure, need to check out my friends card to make it sure.

madmenno
10-11-2006, 05:08 PM
I got some good news and bad news.

The good: i just found out that my motherboard supports PCIe, how stupid i forgot. So it supports the new age video cards. Also i screwed my processor a while ago (in bios between 70 degree celcius :D) but i also found out my motherboard still supports intel dual core 3,4 processors. and they aint that expansive anymore. so i only need an upgrade for like 250 euros and have a WAY faster PC then i used to have.

The bad: i don't have that money right away... so i figurly have to live on watter and bread, and no parties or other expansive stuff.

Good news: i fixed my old PC and it's running pretty well, i hope max works good (should be for low poly at the least) and atleast i can do some photoshop training.

The bad: The MB is laying naked on my desk, i am way to lazy to build my newer MB out and the older one in :D

Anyways, someone knows a good video card? I need to pay most attention to memory speed right? so ddr2 would be an option for me as ddr3 is to expansive and probably halve the price in 3 or 4 months. TX

(hope i won't go to off topic with this but if all's well i will be posting here soon again)

madmenno
10-15-2006, 08:24 PM
Hi again!

Kinda fixed my old computer, max runs quite good now and photoshop too if i won't go crazy on the files and poly's.

I have made a churge. It's 2962 tri's and has 1 1024*1024 map and 2 512*512 maps. i wanna make 1 more map for the windows, doors and some decals to make some dirt. And ofcourse add a spec+bump/normal. Is this to mutch?

Crits 'n tips welcome!

madmenno
10-16-2006, 10:36 PM
At work i figured i create a mythical kinda texture i could use in game editors (wanna try that some more). So i started on one, still need dirt, i know, i try. Every layer is still sepperate and i want to have one psd where you can put different layers on and off to make different kinda tiling textures in the same style. As for now i can turn that middle arch off.

Anyone has some good tutorials for adding cracks in that "stucco"? I tried with clouds -> difference clouds -> levels, but it won't get me good results.

Bye!

Btw: original map is 1024*1024, i should go larger for the latest games right? 2048*2048 or even 4096*4096?

WesleyTack
10-17-2006, 12:35 AM
2048*2048 or even 4096*4096?

hah, no not really :p
I think your model has a lot of sharp edges, it could use more detail, like waterdrains and the stuff where water runs into from the roof.. (dunno the name) a waterditch? :)
Just stuff to break the hard edges overall on the model. Also, the textures repeat a lot and some displacement map for the stone grooves wouldn't hurt aswell probbly.

The latest texture sheet looks ok, but it's a bit bright, and could use more highlights/shading.

Thats my 2 cents anyways

madmenno
10-17-2006, 08:00 PM
Yah i know what you mean by more watter didge. Ans yes it could use more detail, it is however already almost 3000 poly, didn't wanna crank the poly count up too mutch, it's a nice background/deco building as you cannot get inside either.

What you mean by displacement mapping? I thought thats used to make realtime height changes on a surface. But is it possible to make my texture tile less?

How am i gonna make my texture tile less? i know only 2 ways, unwrap it all in 1 map and make the bricks there (it's hard to get seamless textures this way). Or just add more stones in my brick texture witch will reduce the detail.... (2048*2048 would be great :twisted:).
Ow and another one, make decal planes planes over the tiling textures with some dirt.

I think i did a pretty good job to make the bricks detailed while keeping the tiling to a minimal (for the eye).

Actually my problem for big objects is:
If i'm gonna unwrap it, the building looks very pixalated from pretty close by, probably even with a 2048*2048 map. How would that be done in games (didn't do mutch with editors yet besides a bit of fiddling with Ued). What if i make a big hangar where you could enter and still see good details, does not tile and doesn't pixelate. My only answer would be: !BIGGER MAPS! Is a 2048*2048, with mipmaps ofcourse, realy to mutch?

Anyway, i'm getting on with my ancient texture collection. Then make a (simple) map for it with some meshes in it to see how it looks in game.

WesleyTack
10-17-2006, 09:43 PM
3000 triangles for this building seems a lot? Post a wireframe.
I think you can texture this building on a 1024*1024 map, but given the size of it ingame (depending what game) lets say it's FPS, then it would be wise to use 2048*2048 because when you're standing next to it it would look very low-quality. But you say it's a background model (so i'm guessing a 3Dskybox model) or either way, the model wont be reachable by the player, so that would mean again that you don't need that much texturedetail. Then I would go for a 1024*1024 map. You can make a window extrenal aswell and not carve it into the model. just make the curch flat and place models against it. Like window banks, watergutters, water didges?, etc etc you should be able to make it a lot more detailed with 3000 triangles then what you have now. Just post a wire/texturesheet layout so we can see where it can be improved.

madmenno
10-18-2006, 04:41 PM
Actually i just started the churche without thinking what i'm gonna use it for besides improving my texture skills. I wasn't planning to put it in a game but just for practise. For a deco building the windows have an edge to mutch i think, and i can remove the middle line at the front entrance to reduce the poly count by +-500 tri's. Maybe i'm gonna delete the windows totaly, and paint in the windows and make the churche a real background building.

But like i said i want to focus on my texture set and make some meshes in the same style to create my first level, totaly created by myself.

Thanks for your input anyway, i'm happy to hear that i could use a 2048*2048 on a big model when realy needed for close up.

Anyone knows video tuts for hammer besides www.3dbuzz.com? Or is hammer outdated and should i buy/wait for a new game? I also have unreal 2K4, i like the way you just carve out the level instead of adding a brush and carve that out. But HL2 is newer and has way better physics (probably not even gonna use them :))

madmenno
10-18-2006, 09:50 PM
I tried making some cracks and dirt on the texture but didn't get good results. So i started a pillar to that "kinda" goes with the texture i made earlyer. What do you think? More dirt i guess?

-edit-
272 tri's and 1 512*512 difuse.

Ghostscape
10-19-2006, 05:31 AM
If you're going to model windows on the building, you'd do much better to model them as floating/intersecting geometry instead of cutting them into the building. The windows will look better with window sills and you should be able to tile your textures much easier by doing it like this. By extruding the window glass inward from the sill you can create depth without cutting into the big wall planes.

madmenno
10-19-2006, 05:22 PM
Thanks ghostscape, but i can't extrude it inward more then the sill is thick/extruded right? But then my window would be outside the wall witch is never the case in real life... Like i did in the attachment you can see what i mean. Did i miss understood something?

Anyway i figured, in the long run i will probably always unwrap my model to a powers of 2 map. I have mutch more controll this way but it is harder to work with. Anyway i just practise that and for a deco building i could probably just paint in the windows.

madmenno
10-20-2006, 05:04 PM
I made a stairs that goes with the pillar. I'm gonna put together some floor textures that can hook up with eachother and make some trims in 3d.

(184 tri's, 1 512*512 difuse map)

madmenno
10-28-2006, 04:31 PM
I'm getting crazy... i just can't get my model in HF. I have read some "how to" tutorials but i guess i am stupid. The tutorials don't seem clear to me and refering to files and images that aren't there. Just uninstalled steam :twisted:, now i'm gonna install Ued again.... it's a bit old already but it should get me started. Also i got more experience with Ued...

Anyone knows a new popular game with an versatile editor that could easy import my models. I'd like to make indoor and outdoor environments. i know about Unreal, HL2/CSS, doom and quake. Battle Field, farcry and medal of honor will be outdoor only i guess?

DooFi
10-29-2006, 08:58 AM
In UnrealEditor if you have the model as *.ase, you need 5 clicks to import your model. Open the SM Browser and click "File->Import" look for your model and press "okay". Then enter "mylevel" into the package field and give your model a nice name..

Softimage:XSI and Maya are capable of converting models to *.ase, as far as I know. Maybe there are patches for different tools as well.

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