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boxy
10-04-2006, 11:37 AM
oooh here we go again...

Ernest Burden
10-04-2006, 11:46 AM
oooh here we go again...

You're a little early--April 1 isn't for a few months yet.

benytone
10-04-2006, 11:47 AM
Just WoOoOoOoOoOoW :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


.

Darth Mole
10-04-2006, 11:47 AM
No, really. Check the Maxon website.

LemonNado
10-04-2006, 11:50 AM
Good Lord, I just hope I don't have to sell my last PC to afford the upgrade....
Lemo

Ernest Burden
10-04-2006, 11:51 AM
No, really. Check the Maxon website.

It's early here in the US, I need more coffee.

benytone
10-04-2006, 11:56 AM
MOCCA: Muscle Object , Muscle Deformer :bounce: :bounce:



.

Renderwise
10-04-2006, 12:29 PM
and Bodypaint 3 is included in the core version !!!

Uncle-Ox
10-04-2006, 12:30 PM
Did you perhaps notice in the very last line of the announcement that every licence of C4D R10 will include the "functionality formerly available as the optional BodyPaint 3D module." ...which ofcourse means BodyPaint is now part of the core.

S. J. Tubbrit
10-04-2006, 12:31 PM
Brilliant, I'm sooo glad they concentrated heavily on the character animation front, I've only been using C4D for less than a month, but was quietly looking over my shoulder at my old friend Maya, can't wait to see what R10 brings, just what I needed to help my transition! :)

Regards

wuensch
10-04-2006, 12:33 PM
VAMP sounds cool too-- like XSI GATR (Global Attribute transfer)-- a transfer tool for weights & UVs--also for deformation?--:thumbsup:

I am completely--like--WOW-- gimme--

boxy
10-04-2006, 12:38 PM
Looks good to me, I just ordered it. Not that this affected me because I already own it but I think one of the best things about R10 is the inclusion of Bodypaint as standard.

Cheers
Boxy

benytone
10-04-2006, 12:41 PM
-Hair + Fur
-Layer Browser
-Interactive Render Region like XSI :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :bounce: :bounce:


.

mt_sabao
10-04-2006, 12:46 PM
Hei,
Nice work guys! Excellent with the improved viewport/opengl preview. And it was about time with the interface change!
Good work, (but still, like the others looking forward for the renewed renderer. But hey, these guys are doing a hell of a job as it is)
luis

Damsel
10-04-2006, 12:51 PM
What a wonderful surprise to wake up to. :-) Awesome new features that will undoubtedly improve workflow and a new look as well. Outstanding job MAXON!!:thumbsup:

LoopCorp
10-04-2006, 12:52 PM
-Interactive Render Region like XSI [/size]

I was told Sniper was rolled into the core so that must be it. I like the new look interface, I'm sure a lot of old users will groan but I have to say I've always thought the icons were terrible before.

Erik Heyninck
10-04-2006, 01:00 PM
Ordered upgrade to XL!
A new puter can wait a few months.

LucentDreams
10-04-2006, 01:02 PM
theres a HUGE video going up on cineveristy this morning that should showcase allt he new stuff in the core. I'll keep you al informed as to when it goes live.

Top 3 features imo for R10

Constraints
LCSM unwrapping
VAMP

All the CA tools, very good,m some features that don't exist in any other apps, and caught up on a lot of the fundamentals. And what other app has muscles built in? (grantednot as advanced as some highend solutiosn out there like CGtoolkits)

the morph system I guarantee you is unmatched in workflow and power.

LucentDreams
10-04-2006, 01:17 PM
Also just noticed (the sites a little slow) don't be mislead by the website, Joints, Autoweighting, Naming tool, constraint, are all in core, mocca is about Morphs, Muscles and cloth.

Ernest Burden
10-04-2006, 01:18 PM
All the CA tools, very good,m some features that don't exist in any other apps, and caught up on a lot of the fundamentals. And what other app has muscles built in?

Could you write up a quick comparison of the other major apps CA tools vs R10? I'm not very familiar with any of it, though I have used the C4D rigging to pose and animate human models in arch-vis shots. It would be great to see where the tools stand.

fabianR
10-04-2006, 01:18 PM
Top 3 features imo for R10

Constraints
LCSM unwrapping
VAMP


Right, and the web-site forgot to mention that the basic ca tools like joints and weighting, ik and constraints are part of the core, not MOCCA 3! The new IK is very cool, by the way.


the morph system I guarantee you is unmatched in workflow and power.

Agreed. Very little room for improvement, definetly the best system I ever played with!

AdamT
10-04-2006, 01:23 PM
Being less of a CA guy, my favorite features are:

*Layers/bookmarks;
*improved timeline/f-curves;
*collapsing managers;
*improved selection tools (yea! finally using standard shift/control selection!);
*interactive render region;
*integrated PowerSlider.

LemonNado
10-04-2006, 01:27 PM
Now..... if that bridge to VRay comes.... Then I'm selling any other tool I own!
This rocks!
Lemo

benytone
10-04-2006, 01:27 PM
I was told Sniper was rolled into the core so that must be it. I like the new look interface, I'm sure a lot of old users will groan but I have to say I've always thought the icons were terrible before.

Preferences / Scheme / Classic.
...

Muscle ROCK http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/frech/c010.gif http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/musik/d065.gif http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/frech/c010.gif




.

ooo
10-04-2006, 01:29 PM
On the ordering side of things: is it correct that studiobundle does include all modules except Mograph? Just trying to do the math about upgrading from XL to studio.

odo

benytone
10-04-2006, 01:30 PM
theres a HUGE video going up on cineveristy this morning that should showcase allt he new stuff in the core. I'll keep you al informed as to when it goes live.

.

Many thanks kai :bowdown:


.

telnoi-c4d
10-04-2006, 01:35 PM
Just letting Maxon know that the new maxon website is completely screwed up when viewing with the Opera browser.

benytone
10-04-2006, 01:37 PM
Preferences / Scheme / Classic.
...

Muscle ROCK http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/frech/c010.gif http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/musik/d065.gif http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/frech/c010.gif




.


http://home.arcor.de/benytone/sad.jpg

.

kromekat
10-04-2006, 01:41 PM
I am guessing that I should have waited before buying the CD Joints & Skin plugin suite now huh - especially since I haven't had cause to use it yet!? lol!:shrug:

Timeline looks better, as does the interface (one I get used to it!)

Adam

brammelo
10-04-2006, 01:41 PM
Also just noticed (the sites a little slow) don't be mislead by the website, Joints, Autoweighting, Naming tool, constraint, are all in core, mocca is about Morphs, Muscles and cloth.

Are you sure 'bout that Kai? I thought the core had the old bones system, but none of the recent CA developments like joints, autoweighting etc. Could you confirm / deny?

Cheers,
BaRa

JoelOtron
10-04-2006, 01:42 PM
Did you guys miss the 2nd news article on the site?

So the LSCM pelt unwrapping--is that part of BP 3 or integrated into 10?

This is very cool.
I kinda thought we'd be seeing the powerslider integration ever since discovering Peranders was on the team.

Its funny how so many of the posts we've had recently complained of the lack of many of these features--almost like Maxon was purposely having fun with us.

brammelo
10-04-2006, 01:42 PM
On the ordering side of things: is it correct that studiobundle does include all modules except Mograph? Just trying to do the math about upgrading from XL to studio.

odo

Yes. MoGraph is the only module that's not included in the Studio Bundle. It's too new to be included.

LucentDreams
10-04-2006, 01:44 PM
Could you write up a quick comparison of the other major apps CA tools vs R10? I'm not very familiar with any of it, though I have used the C4D rigging to pose and animate human models in arch-vis shots. It would be great to see where the tools stand.


Uhm here is a quicky will try a better one later, in the middle of editing the new in R10 cineveristy vids.

Okay, what we have that others have:

Both joint based and Axis based bones. (many apps have one or the other)
Polygonal/renderable bones
2DIK solver
3DIK solver
Spline IK solver
Joint tool
Position constraint
Rotation constraint
Scale constraint
Aim Constraint
Upvectors
Spring (soft) constraint
Surface constraint
Morphs (though not much really compares here except they can morph)
Shrinkwrap deformer

More Unique features would include:

The fact that the joint obejct can work as an axis based bone, or a joint
The fact that as a Joint, the joint object can weight to child or from parent
Stetch, FK/IK blending, and several specialized constraints built right into the IK solvers
Automated handle creation and linking built right into the spline IK, no clustering needed
Naming tool, for easily naming and renaming hierarchies using customizable presets
Muscle object and Deformer
Rotational morphs (only mirai has these)
Support for absolute or relative morphs and External morphs (external files)
Morph deformer allowing used of falloffs on morphs
Falloff object (only messiah really has these) allows weighting an object without a single brush stroke, justs falloffs just like in mograph to weight areas.
4 Autoweighting algos, choices allow for the best fit.
VAMP (only XSI has this in Gator, maya 8 added a few features) Allows asset map transfers
Clamp constraints, a few constraints that dont' direclty exist in other apps and require cripting of complex constraint setups to mimic.


Thats not to say much of these are in lugins for other apps and I tried to note where one specific app may have the same feature.

Now for thigns I know no other app has

Connect object allows connecting two separate objects nond destructively, allowing them to subdivide and share materials anddeformation
SKin deformer has the ability to use other transformation spaces so mesh can trasnform with joints, or in the meshes space, or deformers space. Allows for thigns simply not posisbl in other apps.

fluffouille
10-04-2006, 01:44 PM
I am guessing that I should have waited before buying the CD Joints & Skin plugin suite now huh - especially since I haven't had cause to use it yet!? lol!:shrug:
Adam
Cactus Dan's tools still have some exclusive features and ease of use on their side.
You can easily mix both tools too, so you get the best of both worlds.
And you can't beat Dan's prices!

LucentDreams
10-04-2006, 01:48 PM
yes, considering morphs comes in mocca, one can easily not get mocca if they dont' need muscles and advanced morphs, and get Dan's morphs for a lot cheaper. Definitley a way I'd recommend to a lot of users.

Also Dan's got a lot of things like his hand controllers, a nicer soft constraint etc that are nice.

one thign I will point out is both systems convert to and from the old bones and vertexmaps/CB, so its quite feasible to switch from one to the other, and yes as Sebastien said they can mix, heck you can use cinema IK on CD joints or vice versa.

kromekat
10-04-2006, 01:49 PM
Cactus Dan's tools still have some exclusive features and ease of use on their side.
You can easily mix both tools too, so you get the best of both worlds.
And you can't beat Dan's prices!

This is all true, plus it's still usually the 3rd party developers that innovate the most, and we should make sure they can keep doing that by supporting them! :thumbsup:

Adam

brammelo
10-04-2006, 01:50 PM
So the LCSM pelt unwrapping--is that part of BP 3 or integrated into 10

It's included in the C4D Core version. As is HDRI-painting, BTW.

fabianR
10-04-2006, 01:57 PM
Are you sure 'bout that Kai? I thought the core had the old bones system, but none of the recent CA developments like joints, autoweighting etc. Could you confirm / deny?

Cheers,
BaRa

Yes, it's true. New joints, weighting, IK (2d, 3d and spline), mirror tool, weight effectors, constraints and naming tool are in the core.

Muscles, morph, VS and VAMP are in MOCCA.

Dumpduck
10-04-2006, 02:08 PM
I'm really a c4d newbie, and dont know much about the things on the list you wrote Lucentdreams, but. I guess this means, that C4D's animation tools now really can compete with the other 3d apps?...


Very nice announcement, Go Maxon. :)

Kokosing
10-04-2006, 02:12 PM
I just spoke to Maxon UK. It appears there's a £30 fee for Mograph owners who want to upgrade to R10. This is to create a new serial number. Is it just me or does this sound a little dodgy?

Will

jondoe0ne
10-04-2006, 02:17 PM
The CINEMA 4D rendering engine is legendary for its ability to deliver stunning image quality with unprecedented speed. When a deadline is breathing down your neck, it's good to know that you can rely on CINEMA 4D's outstanding renderer to deliver great-looking results in a very short time.

CINEMA 4D will easily support almost any broadcast or film application, with a maximum image size of 16,000 pixels square and support for Quicktime, PSD, TIF and many other popular formats. CINEMA 4D's raytracer computes reflection, refraction and other high quality shading effects with ease. Adaptive and object-based antialiasing options save render time and eliminate artifacts, while a variety of modes adjust the antialiasing for broadcast, print or other mediums.


(http://www.maxon.net/pages/images/products/cinema4d/highlights/rendering/rendering_2.jpg) CINEMA 4D also supports rendering in 32-Bit per color channel for high dynamics range images in HDRI or OpenEXR format. With support for multiple processors, HyperThreading and Multicore technology, CINEMA 4D ekes every ounce of rendering power from your computer. For even faster renders, you can use the Net Render (http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/modules/netrender/netrender_e.html) module to spread the rendering workflow to computer systems across the office or around the globe. With fast, high quality results you can count on, CINEMA 4D delivers real-world results on a real-world schedule.

are you for real???

fluffouille
10-04-2006, 02:18 PM
I just spoke to Maxon UK. It appears there's a £30 fee for Mograph owners who want to upgrade to R10. This is to create a new serial number. Is it just me or does this sound a little dodgy?

Will
This has always been the case with major updates of the core, as far as I know.

TimC
10-04-2006, 02:19 PM
Did you guys miss the 2nd news article on the site?

So the LSCM pelt unwrapping--is that part of BP 3 or integrated into 10?

This is very cool.
I kinda thought we'd be seeing the powerslider integration ever since discovering Peranders was on the team.

Its funny how so many of the posts we've had recently complained of the lack of many of these features--almost like Maxon was purposely having fun with us.


BP3 is integrated into R10.

Powerslider is included (although not entirely the same)

cheers
Tim

LoopCorp
10-04-2006, 02:19 PM
Great new reel too. Well done Maxon and anyone who contributed.

alisureyyatorun
10-04-2006, 02:21 PM
I though that there were such a new module like liquid simulator. But Im little dissapointed. But refreshed interface is my number one feature.

Better to go Maxon.

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 02:24 PM
I thought the core had the old bones system, but none of the recent CA developments like joints, autoweighting etc. Could you confirm / deny?

I can confirm.

Core includes the new joints system, new weighting system, IK, skin deformer, constraints, naming tool and mirror tool.

Mocca includes the new Morph tools, Vamp, Visual Selector, Cloth, and the old IK system.

On the non-CA front, core also includes all of the painting and UV tools of BP3D, including the new LSCM tools and 16/32 bit painting - an incredible value IMO.

- Rick -

JoelOtron
10-04-2006, 02:28 PM
Thanks Tim/Rick

Now the only thing missing is a place for me to buy it.
I just took a long trip through the site and havent found any mention of R10 as far as purchasing/upgrading goes. I guess I'll just call Rafi...

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 02:31 PM
Now the only thing missing is a place for me to buy it.
I just took a long trip through the site and havent found any mention of R10 as far as purchasing/upgrading goes.

Bear with us. The online shop for North and South America should be updated within the next couple of hours. We just woke up.

- Rick -

JoelOtron
10-04-2006, 02:33 PM
Bear with us. The online shop should be updated within the next couple of hours.

- Rick -

LOL--well--you do know how patient and laid back us C4d fans are. :)

automat
10-04-2006, 02:36 PM
I though that there were such a new module like liquid simulator. But Im little dissapointed. But refreshed interface is my number one feature.

Better to go Maxon.

i liked the old UI a littlebit more, and what i really miss is a Shadertree.
What is the systemrequirements for R10?

jsls
10-04-2006, 02:41 PM
wow, wow....cant wait! :thumbsup:

bobzilla
10-04-2006, 02:42 PM
Well, this certainly explains where all the plugins I was hoping for upgrades to have gone (SniperPro, PowerSlider, Visual Selector, etc)

I wonder if CD's stuff will work with any of this new CA stuff. I can't see myself rigging the same models yet again.

fluffouille
10-04-2006, 02:47 PM
I wonder if CD's stuff will work with any of this new CA stuff. I can't see myself rigging the same models yet again.
All of Dan's tools work perfectly within R10, and can be mixed at leisure with the new tools :)

spirozero
10-04-2006, 02:51 PM
Wow - this is really great. No complaints whatsoever. Thanks Maxon!

:thumbsup:

OK, so with Mograph the tagline was "You've got to move it, move it."

I'm thinking that the tagline for all the new CA tools should be "B-B-B-Bad to the bone!"

:buttrock:

bobzilla
10-04-2006, 02:53 PM
All of Dan's tools work perfectly within R10, and can be mixed at leisure with the new tools :)

So I can, say, attach the new Muscle system to Dan's Joints?

(If anybody other than us 3D geeks read that line...)

Srek
10-04-2006, 03:03 PM
So I can, say, attach the new Muscle system to Dan's Joints?

(If anybody other than us 3D geeks read that line...)
The muscles are not restricted to joints, they can work with practicaly everything.
The muscles themselve only need some objects to attach to, the muscle deformer then applies the deformation defined by the muscles to any object you want.
Cheers
Björn

slouchcorp
10-04-2006, 03:03 PM
sure can the muscles work on anything

mike

bobzilla
10-04-2006, 03:06 PM
OK. I gotta...I gotta kiss someone! Who!

This is really fantastic. Thanks to all involved.

Now if I can quit this pesky day job and sit down and learn all this....

plotz
10-04-2006, 03:11 PM
Adding UV mapping to the core application just cleared the only hurdle I had left in switching to C4D. I'm sure that's going to be the case for a lot of users. Good move Maxon!

(Is it just me, or are the scroll bars in the new site's frames not showing up? Using Firefox 1.5 and Safari.)

JDP
10-04-2006, 03:18 PM
In the preferences under my graphics card abilities it mentions that I haven't got the cgtoolkit, is this something I have to download from nvidia?

JDP

AkaKico
10-04-2006, 03:23 PM
WoooooOOO! Downloading! Hyperventaling! :love::love::love:

ThirdEye
10-04-2006, 03:24 PM
In the preferences under my graphics card abilities it mentions that I haven't got the cgtoolkit, is this something I have to download from nvidia?

JDP

what card do you have?

Srek
10-04-2006, 03:25 PM
In the preferences under my graphics card abilities it mentions that I haven't got the cgtoolkit, is this something I have to download from nvidia?

CG Toolkit is needed on Mac for some enhanced OGL Stuff. Since the toolkit is still in beta i can't recommend installing it on production machines currently.
Cheers
Björn

govinda
10-04-2006, 03:29 PM
And just after I wrote that long old beef about the timeline... Woohoo, this is like two upgrades--I always thought it would EITHER be CA or the animation tools that got upgrades, not both at once!

JDP
10-04-2006, 03:35 PM
Thanks Thirdeye and Srek for your answers, I currently testing the demo on my laptop, P4 with a Geforce fxgo5700. My workstation has a Quadro fx1100, does that support all the new OGL features?

Cheers JDP

kromekat
10-04-2006, 03:40 PM
Got the demo, just trying stuff out!

Getting used to the interface, but a slight stumbling block recognising some elements straight oof - will come fairly quickly though I imagine, but it is a bit of a 'slower' at first, since I am soooo used to the old ones. Like it though! :)

Timeline looks great!!! :D

Like the translucent safeframes - much better! ;)

Like the new GUI font, but qould like to make it fractionally smaller - what is the font?

More exploring...
Adam

boxy
10-04-2006, 03:41 PM
Haven't come across it yet, but is there a UB version of Axis Centre rolled into 10?
Oh the details the details!
Boxy

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 03:46 PM
Haven't come across it yet, but is there a UB version of Axis Centre rolled into 10?
Oh the details the details!

Axis Center is now a part of the core application - it's accessible from the Structure menu.

fluffouille
10-04-2006, 03:50 PM
My workstation has a Quadro fx1100, does that support all the new OGL features?

Cheers JDP
I have a QuadroFX 1400, and with the latest drivers it works great.

monsterfish
10-04-2006, 03:57 PM
I'm curious how the Mac Pro ATI X1900 will work with the new OGL features. Mac OGL has always kind of lagged behind the Windows implementation.

Looks like a great update. Wish Mograph was bundled instead of Hair. I purchased hair for my SB. Haven't even had a chance to use it yet. Too busy with other stuff. Maybe I can transfer it to my XL version.

JDP
10-04-2006, 03:58 PM
Thanks fluffouille, even without the enhanced features it's a massive improvement. :)

boxy
10-04-2006, 03:59 PM
Axis Center is now a part of the core application - it's accessible from the Structure menu.

great, thanks
Boxy

jsls
10-04-2006, 04:01 PM
so does anyone know what the upgrade price(s) are going to be?

neosushi
10-04-2006, 04:06 PM
Hey Guys,
i know everybody is excited and want to get informations about R10.
Well there are more informations if you check out the Modules Site.
On the following links you can also see some great animations done by
Ghosthunter by Wipix.fr & Jay by Sebastien Florand, completely animated using R10 & MOCCA3. Great stuff don't miss them.

Links:
MOCCA 3 Main Site (http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/modules/mocca/mocca_e.html)
Jay on New in MOCCA 3 website (http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/modules/mocca/newinmocca3_e.html)

Check'em out great job !

cheers
::neosushi::

Neil V
10-04-2006, 04:07 PM
The R10 upgrade looks great if you're a character animator. But as I'm not I'm entirely underwhelmed and a little disappointed. Sure, there are some great features such as layers, interactive render region, enhanced OpenGL and the new timeline looks great - if not a little overdue.

But having no enhancements at all (Pyrocluster is not an enhancement in my opinion) to Advanced Render is a shocking oversight. Inexcusable. No update to the lame Dynamics module. And I've gotta say the new interface icons are horrendous! Who the hell designed them? Looks like someone played with Modo, got drunk, forgot what he/she had been working on for the past month and went about recreating their Modo experience. Could those X,Y,Z icons be any bigger? I was so looking forward to AR3. Pass be that bottle of gin and the sleeping tablets......

ThirdEye
10-04-2006, 04:11 PM
And I've gotta say the new interface icons are horrendous! Who the hell designed them?

Me and Janine ;) If you don't like the new style you can switch back to the old one, no one's forcing you to use it.

LucentDreams
10-04-2006, 04:25 PM
Cineversity will have a whole tutorial on making R10 more R9 like, not jsut icons and scheme (thought he scheme itself is really nice) btu also what side icons areo n in OM, where mising fucntions from palettes have gone etc.

None of the new R10 tutorials for cineversity will go up till the actual release, with the exception of the whats new vids, going up soon as I can get them rendered out and uploaded.

Jannis
10-04-2006, 04:27 PM
Me and Janine ;) If you don't like the new style you can switch back to the old one, no one's forcing you to use it.

I have to say I disagree with Neil V. I love the new interface it looks modern and elegant. The old cinema look was bit old fashioned looking.

What I like to know, and I have asked the question else were, is there in version 10 a nonlinear editor like trax in Maya? Still waiting to download the demo, 14 more minutes

ThirdEye
10-04-2006, 04:29 PM
is there in version 10 a nonlinear editor like trax in Maya?

Sorry no, not yet.

Neil V
10-04-2006, 04:31 PM
Me and Janine ;) If you don't like the new style you can switch back to the old one, no one's forcing you to use it.


That's OK then. Back to the old ones it is. I'm sorry but I really don't like them at all. I'm sure other users will prefer them - subjectivity and all that.

LucentDreams
10-04-2006, 04:33 PM
yeah theres still some definite holes left

no clusters, no NLA, no audio preview in the powerslider, difficult mirroring, no autorigging (htought there is a type of xpresso autorig on the goodies I believe.)

jsls
10-04-2006, 04:34 PM
I have to say I disagree with Neil V. I love the new interface it looks modern and elegant. The old cinema look was bit old fashioned looking.

I agree the interface now looks how I thought it should look...very nice...excellent job Janine and ThirdEye....very clean, I love it!!! :thumbsup:

ooo
10-04-2006, 04:35 PM
I agree the interface now looks how I thought it should look...very nice...excellent job Janine and ThirdEye....very clean, I love it!!! :thumbsup:


quoted for agreement!

odo

Jannis
10-04-2006, 04:36 PM
yeah theres still some definite holes left

no clusters, no NLA, no audio preview in the powerslider, difficult mirroring, no autorigging (htought there is a type of xpresso autorig on the goodies I believe.)

Thats cool, leaves alot of room for Cactus Dan to fill some holes!

danmee05
10-04-2006, 05:15 PM
Wow Layers!

Gimme dat!

rikke
10-04-2006, 05:22 PM
New layout looks great, I always found the previous one to be very 1990's. Still a bit dissapointed, since I never do any rigging or use BP, R10's new functions are not enough for me to do the upgrade right away.

marshalartist
10-04-2006, 05:27 PM
All looks good to me, I like the new Icons a lot. Is there any more flexiblity on how you can arrange the interface and icon palletes? Also did any of the 10 Comm tools make it into V10, like the solo selected and disable textures and so on?

DMJ
10-04-2006, 05:27 PM
so does anyone know what the upgrade price(s) are going to be?

I ordered R10 from DesignExpress in Belgium this morning and they informed me on the upgrade prices (ex taxes).

R9.5 to R10 (core + BP3) = 195 euros
Advanced render 2.5 to 2.6 (including pyrocluster) = 90 euros

I immediately stepped into that offer and i hope to get the full packagedelivered within several weeks.

btw, extremely good job done on the programming, i'm going to look deeper into the demo tonight.

vinys
10-04-2006, 05:30 PM
I like the new layout very much. 2D icons are a pleasure for the eyes.

One question, does R10 support export in Collada format?

Thanks, vinys.

lildragon
10-04-2006, 05:31 PM
One question, does R10 support export in Collada format?

Thanks, vinys.

Unfortunatley no, not at this time, tho it has been requested.

Cheers

vinys
10-04-2006, 05:33 PM
Not at this time, tho it has been requested.

Cheers

Ok, thanks. I hope it will come. Maybe for R9.1 too.

FR33K
10-04-2006, 05:34 PM
Me and Janine ;) If you don't like the new style you can switch back to the old one, no one's forcing you to use it.

your style looks very good and clear i like it :)

3DBond
10-04-2006, 05:42 PM
One of the things I'm most excited about is the new interface. A modified 'Dark Glow' was the only one I could use previously. The default was totally dated.

ThirdEye
10-04-2006, 05:45 PM
One of the things I'm most excited about is the new interface. A modified 'Dark Glow' was the only one I could use previously. The default was totally dated.

This is the layout i'm using, i'll upload it later if someone wants it (the image in the texture view is a render i found on the web, it's by Jacques De Fontaine)

http://thirdeye.cgcommunity.com/gui.jpg

Aguz
10-04-2006, 05:45 PM
Maxon developes so fast, so nice and good, and Im pritty comfortable with the new interface:)
I can't wait to dive into the new release!:thumbsup:

Per-Anders
10-04-2006, 05:50 PM
All looks good to me, I like the new Icons a lot. Is there any more flexiblity on how you can arrange the interface and icon palletes?

Not sure how you could make it any more flexible than it is already for interface arangement. However you can now fold palettes and managers which is a nice new addition and the command manager has been given an overhaul which makes it nicer easier to layout and find your icons.

laiels
10-04-2006, 05:50 PM
that monkey is a render?! Done in C4d?:eek:

DMJ
10-04-2006, 05:53 PM
I think that monkey is to indicate that everyone is going ape about R10 and BP3.

Nice picture, and yes, i think ThirdEye's layout isvery interesting to look at (and work with).

3DBond
10-04-2006, 06:01 PM
I'd love the layout ThirdEye! Looks sweet.

So, if you fill out the Demo download form now, it's for R10?

Kutkin
10-04-2006, 06:03 PM
Cool!!
The new interface looks like nice.

Any new matte painting functions in R10?

squidinc
10-04-2006, 06:03 PM
your style looks very good and clear i like it :)

gotta agree with FR33K, the dark version is just brilliant
the colour scheme is pretty much what I've had 9.5 set at for a while, nice that I no longer have to bother changing colours when I install c4d :)

Neil V
10-04-2006, 06:18 PM
Now I won't know whether I'm working in C4D or Modo ;o)

Would have been nice to have some extra modelling tools too.

benytone
10-04-2006, 06:21 PM
This is the layout i'm using, i'll upload it later if someone wants it (the image in the texture view is a render i found on the web, it's by Jacques De Fontaine)

http://thirdeye.cgcommunity.com/gui.jpg

.
Lovely layout, very professional, very very nice :thumbsup:

.

leadnut
10-04-2006, 06:24 PM
4 out 5 stars-deduct 1/2star for no AR update... 1/2star for icons looking like someone fell into a bucket of windows 95...if that makes it run faster i guess us macusers will forgive you.

Neil V
10-04-2006, 06:43 PM
4 out 5 stars-deduct 1/2star for no AR update... 1/2star for icons looking like someone fell into a bucket of windows 95...if that makes it run faster i guess us macusers will forgive you.

At last someone who agrees with me!

mt_sabao
10-04-2006, 06:45 PM
if that makes it run faster i guess us macusers will forgive you.
Lol! No comments on your arrogant remark...

It´s been crashing alot here. Specially experimenting with the enhanced opengl preview. BTW, the opengl shadows albeit cool look a bit jerky. For example, had a light casting a red shadow, the selfshadow was red (ok), and the shadow on the floor was black...

Whats exatcly meant by post effects of the Enhanced OGL? No glow?
Also, no reflection? The video on maxon´s webpage, i guess that´s environment then? It´s a bit misleading.

cheers

Per-Anders
10-04-2006, 06:45 PM
At last someone who agrees with me!

Personally I love hte new icons, however if you dislike them then simply change scheme back to the old one (Edit->Preferences), it's not like C4D doesn't have one of the most flexible interfaces out there.

AdamT
10-04-2006, 06:47 PM
R10 also makes it easy(er) to edit icons or paint your own.

Neil V
10-04-2006, 06:48 PM
Personally I love hte new icons, however if you dislike them then simply change scheme back to the old one (Edit->Preferences), it's not like C4D doesn't have one of the most flexible interfaces out there.

Agreed. And it does seem like the majority of people actually love the new icons.

Damsel
10-04-2006, 07:03 PM
I would love your new layout ThirdEye if you decide to share it. :-) Very nice!

moka.studio
10-04-2006, 07:07 PM
I have been fidlding with the demo, and I am actually quite impressed.
( ok I would have liked to see some updates to the modelling tool, but fair enough, the dev team has limited ressources...).
I really like the improvements for scene management, and those to the timeline/ preview range, much better than in v9. I especially like how the scene management is very consequent throughout,
such as the layer principle, which is the same in the timeline, object manager, material manager, or the search filters throughout.

wbj
10-04-2006, 07:08 PM
Lol! No comments on your arrogant remark...

It´s been crashing alot here. Specially experimenting with the enhanced opengl preview. BTW, the opengl shadows albeit cool look a bit jerky. For example, had a light casting a red shadow, the selfshadow was red (ok), and the shadow on the floor was black...

cheers


Two options:
- install the latest OGL drivers for your card, except for ATI cards (the 6.9 catalyst has stability problems)
- Download and install the cgtoolkit from NVIDIA. Switch from GLSL to Cg (in the OpenGL Shading preferences of Cinema).

Best regards,

wbj

benytone
10-04-2006, 07:16 PM
for icons looking like someone fell into a bucket
of windows 95...if that makes it run faster i guess us macusers
will forgive you.
.

It's purely a matter of taste, personaly, i love the new design, look like After Effect -Modo, Mixed Baby

.
http://www.maxon.net/pages/images/products/modules/mograph/compositing_1.jpg

ooo
10-04-2006, 07:25 PM
Anybody knows if there will be printed manuals? I know, it's quite a heavy book but I like to hold a real book sometimes. Will it be included with the upgrade or does it need to be ordered separately.

Thanks,

odo

marshalartist
10-04-2006, 07:27 PM
Well I have played with the demo and at first glance the improvements look very superficial (nicely done though), nothing added to workflow other than organisational options like layers etc. Animation is a different matter and that looks very thorough and delightful to use, worth the upgrade alone. Axis centre is a big relief, it makes working with imported models very easy. Mocca is transformed beyound belief it looks very cutting edge. I can see why some people were expecting more but when you look at the new modules and Mocca 3 you can see where the time has gone. I just hope the next time arround some of the ageing modules get a look in. Dynamics and Pyrocluster are two great examples, they could be so much more. I have not played with the new Bodypaint yet but it looks very promising. Overall I am quite impressed and I'm sure there is a lot more under the surface waiting to be discovered. :)

realsurreal
10-04-2006, 07:41 PM
I hope there is some improvement with the fbx problems mainly with a c4d motionbuilder pipeline, i've had nothing but problems, anyone have any info on that?

LucentDreams
10-04-2006, 07:44 PM
Well I have played with the demo and at first glance the improvements look very superficial (nicely done though), nothing added to workflow other than organisational options like layers etc. Animation is a different matter and that looks very thorough and delightful to use, worth the upgrade alone. Axis centre is a big relief, it makes working with imported models very easy. Mocca is transformed beyound belief it looks very cutting edge. I can see why some people were expecting more but when you look at the new modules and Mocca 3 you can see where the time has gone. I just hope the next time arround some of the ageing modules get a look in. Dynamics and Pyrocluster are two great examples, they could be so much more. I have not played with the new Bodypaint yet but it looks very promising. Overall I am quite impressed and I'm sure there is a lot more under the surface waiting to be discovered. :)

in terms of work flow, layers, OM filtering, Vertical tags, CTRL clicking to manipulate multiple sliders in the AM at once, or CTRL and shift to move them relatively at the same time, using Alt to move the sliders in larger increments, improved key frame selections now work in record key not jsut auto key.

Theres a lot of other stuff too, but they are much smaller things, but workflow's seen a lot of improvements.

3DBond
10-04-2006, 07:48 PM
I ordered a reference manual when I upgraded from 8.2 to 9.5 thinking (hoping) the manual would cover 9.5. Seems they only update it for major releases, no .x releases.

I imagine you'll have to pay a little extra for the printed one this time around too.

I'd love it and pay a little more for it if it was in nice glossy colour like the Quickstart Manual is! Please Maxon? :D

Rich-Art
10-04-2006, 07:51 PM
I like the layout. It is very comforting for my eyes.
I think Maxon did a great job.

Peace,
Rich-Art. :thumbsup:

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 07:52 PM
Anybody knows if there will be printed manuals? I know, it's quite a heavy book but I like to hold a real book sometimes. Will it be included with the upgrade or does it need to be ordered separately.

Some distributors may offer printed versions of their localized (translated) manual. Unfortunately MAXON US and MAXON Germany have opted to discontinue printed manuals.

The tradeoff is that R10 now includes new context-sensitive, searchable HTML help. For me, this is a lot more beneficial than a printed manual because I can simply right-click a parameter and see the reference related to the parameter. You can print the HTML help pages if you want, but it's a lot of pages.

- Rick -

Roger Eberhart
10-04-2006, 07:58 PM
Rotational morphs (only mirai has these)

FYI, Animation Master, Max, and XSI all do this quite well. No plug-ins required. And I would be surprised if Maya didn't have it as well.

chikega
10-04-2006, 08:02 PM
Overall I'm very impressed with this new release. :thumbsup:

Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to a more enhanced material shader flow ... perhaps the option of nodal-based shader flow in the near future. ;)

3DBond
10-04-2006, 08:02 PM
No printed manuals at all?!? Dang.

The searchable HTML help sounds nice though.

I just have to note that the new splash screen, top shelf. Love it!

Love the new interface. Only minor issue is that I wish there was a way to turn AA off in the interface. I like to use MINI 7 Condensed, but it's really blurry in R10

wbj
10-04-2006, 08:04 PM
I hope there is some improvement with the fbx problems mainly with a c4d motionbuilder pipeline, i've had nothing but problems, anyone have any info on that?

The plugin for Win32, Win64 and OS X is now based on Autodesk's latest FBX SDK (released March/April 2006).

Best regards,

wbj

Per-Anders
10-04-2006, 08:04 PM
FYI, Animation Master, Max, and XSI all do this quite well. No plug-ins required. And I would be surprised if Maya didn't have it as well.

Really? How do you do rotational shape blends in XSI? (this is not the same as keying or driving a cluster to rotate by the way with the morph).

realsurreal
10-04-2006, 08:07 PM
thanks wbj this is good news

imashination
10-04-2006, 08:18 PM
I hope there is some improvement with the fbx problems mainly with a c4d motionbuilder pipeline, i've had nothing but problems, anyone have any info on that?

Can you be more specific? We've been using a maya -> mb -> c4d pipeline here for a few months without a single hitch to mention. Which bit isnt working?

muckymouse
10-04-2006, 08:24 PM
4 out 5 stars-deduct 1/2star for no AR update... 1/2star for icons looking like someone fell into a bucket of windows 95...if that makes it run faster i guess us macusers will forgive you.

Oh yeah it looks exactly like windows 95 except for the colors, font, and everything else. Have you even used windows 95?? If you don't like it; open the prefs, click twice, and it will look the same as R9.5. Or is that too hard?

ooo
10-04-2006, 08:27 PM
Some distributors may offer printed versions of their localized (translated) manual. Unfortunately MAXON US and MAXON Germany have opted to discontinue printed manuals.

The tradeoff is that R10 now includes new context-sensitive, searchable HTML help. For me, this is a lot more beneficial than a printed manual because I can simply right-click a parameter and see the reference related to the parameter. You can print the HTML help pages if you want, but it's a lot of pages.

- Rick -

Thanks for the reply. I understand and respect this. It's a pity but I'll see how the html is working.

odo

jackb602
10-04-2006, 08:34 PM
Some distributors may offer printed versions of their localized (translated) manual. Unfortunately MAXON US and MAXON Germany have opted to discontinue printed manuals.


That's really disappointing to hear. I find it much easier to spend time with a printed manual than staring at a PDF on the screen. Will the manuals still exist in PDF format, or will the HTML files replace them?

Jack

pnoland
10-04-2006, 08:40 PM
Wow, this is looking freakin' sweet. I've been in the market for an upgrade to my software (still using c4d 8.5!?) so I'm thinking I will make r10 my purchase when I can afford to do so. Very very awesome that the CA got worked out along with the other new features. Fantastic work on the interface icons!

3DBond
10-04-2006, 08:42 PM
That's really disappointing to hear. I find it much easier to spend time with a printed manual than staring at a PDF on the screen.
I concur whole heartedly.

Erik Heyninck
10-04-2006, 08:49 PM
PDF is easy to print. Make a deal with some local photocopy shop, create a logo or some cards,...whatever, and have them print your manuals in colour.

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 08:49 PM
That's really disappointing to hear. I find it much easier to spend time with a printed manual than staring at a PDF on the screen. Will the manuals still exist in PDF format, or will the HTML files replace them?

The HTML files replace them. That's why it's not so easy for us to provide a printed manual anymore. It's definitely a trade-off.

- Rick -

Erik Heyninck
10-04-2006, 08:54 PM
No pdf anymore? That's bad, and unforeseen.
At least the html will be viewable outside cinema I hope?
That way it's possible to create a pdf yourself. (if I can remember how to do it)

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 08:56 PM
No pdf anymore? That's bad, and unforeseen.
At least the html will be viewable outside cinema I hope?
That way it's possible to create a pdf yourself. (if I can remember how to do it)

The HTML files are all stored in your C4D directory (or you can choose an external path) - you can view them outside of C4D.

- Rick -

ooo
10-04-2006, 08:57 PM
The HTML files replace them. That's why it's not so easy for us to provide a printed manual anymore. It's definitely a trade-off.

- Rick -


In the demo the html-files are not available yet am I right? I tried the help-function but that isn't working.

odo

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 09:01 PM
In the demo the html-files are not available yet am I right? I tried the help-function but that isn't working.

The documentation is still being finalized. Also, the help file is quite large, so I'm not sure if it will be made available for download with the demo or not. That would make the demo download quite a lengthy one.

- Rick -

jackb602
10-04-2006, 09:24 PM
The HTML files replace them. That's why it's not so easy for us to provide a printed manual anymore. It's definitely a trade-off.

- Rick -

Ugh, what was disappointing is now a full fledged disaster. I do really appreciate the improvments in R10, but easy access to complete documentation is essential to make use of Cinema. Are there hundreds of HTML files? I don't even know how I'd begin the task of having all of this printed. Please reconsider offering a conventional PDF manual, at the very least.

cbowyer
10-04-2006, 09:44 PM
Just got a note from Resolve (a C4D distributor) in Vancouver. After a call to Maxon USA she said the upgrade price from 9.6.XL to R10XL will bee $800 CDN. and that there was No additional fee to upgrade MoGraph?

Does this jibe with what others have found out about upgrade pricing?

marshalartist
10-04-2006, 09:53 PM
Is there anyway to disable textures in V10? it would of been nice to have it as choice on the layer manager. I am really liking what I am seeing so far though :)

spirozero
10-04-2006, 09:53 PM
Just got a note from Resolve (a C4D distributor) in Vancouver. After a call to Maxon USA she said the upgrade price from 9.6.XL to R10XL will bee $800 CDN. and that there was No additional fee to upgrade MoGraph?

Does this jibe with what others have found out about upgrade pricing?

Yikes. That would convert to about $710 US. Does that sound right?

cbowyer
10-04-2006, 09:56 PM
Yep. I can't recall but I believe i paid something close to that wehn going from R8 to R9. There was a thread earlier back with a quote of 190 pounds from Maxon UK but perhaps that is just for the Core module.

I have asked them to clarify the Mograph issue. I might hve missed it on the web site but is there an expected release date for R10 or is it avaiable now?

MikeS369
10-04-2006, 10:00 PM
I just preordered the upgrade (through Maxon) from 9.6 to 10 (studio) and the price was US $495. I was told that it will ship at the end of this month or early next month.

spirozero
10-04-2006, 10:02 PM
I just preordered the upgrade (through Maxon) from 9.6 to 10 and the price was US $495. I was told that it will ship at the end of this month or early next month.

That sounds more like it.

I'll be curious to find out how much it'll cost to upgrade from 9.6 XL to 10 Studio.

marshalartist
10-04-2006, 10:03 PM
I have ordered and the price was £279 +VAT (£328)

boxy
10-04-2006, 10:05 PM
UK - £279 (£328 inc vat) to upgrade frm 9.5XL to 10XL. In my case it was an additional £30 to upgrade my Hair module licence. Luckily Bodypaint was rolled into core or that would have been another £30 :D
Boxy

unseenthings
10-04-2006, 10:16 PM
Is there anyway to disable textures in V10? it would of been nice to have it as choice on the layer manager. I am really liking what I am seeing so far though :)
Yeah, I was really hoping that the "render" button in the layer manager would turn off the textures in the render like that plugin a while back did (except that it turned off all textures). That would be SUPER because then you could turn off your AO/raytrace/SSS materials or turn only those on, etc... I hope that's a change they make.

cbowyer
10-04-2006, 10:18 PM
I just preordered the upgrade (through Maxon) from 9.6 to 10 (studio) and the price was US $495. I was told that it will ship at the end of this month or early next month.


Yes I just confirmed with Rafi that the price was $495 USD as well. Which is about $560.00 CDN at present. I called Resolve on it, (I think they wanted to charge to much for MoGraph as I recall) to see if they will bring their price more in line with Maxon's. I can appreciate paying a bit more to avoid duty and International Shipping but not $300.

For any Canadian's out there I'll let you know what they say.

I also asked Rafi specifically about an upgrade fee for MoGraph and she said no, the original serial numbers should work for R10. So don't know if that is just for older modules like Hair and Dynamics.

flingster
10-04-2006, 10:19 PM
does mograph come with studio now?

can someone tell us a little more about this layers feature please? whats that all about...

credit to maxon for bundling BP with c4d...should have notices thirdeyes comment a bit better the other day when i was bangin on about it not being bundled...good one maxon for this. i'm sure the CA among us are v happy tonight. the interface/workflow stuff looks promising from what i can see and interactive render looks useful. icon look reminds me of modo/xsi a little..needs blue-ifying as its been orange tango'd so far...change is a good thing will run with it for a while then bitch on to thirdeye later..lol.
:twisted:

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 10:31 PM
For those of you in North & South America clamoring for pricing info & to pre-order - the U.S. Shop is now open for business.

http://www.maxonshop.com/

Sorry for the delay.

Kuroyume0161
10-04-2006, 10:45 PM
For those of you in North & South America clamoring for pricing info & to pre-order - the U.S. Shop is now open for business.

http://www.maxonshop.com/

Sorry for the delay.

Don't know about that. I click on the cart to 'Add to cart' and the resulting screen is blank (Firefox - latest).

Also, I have a question. I have Cinema 4D XL R9.5 + BP2.5 Hair. What all do I need here? Since BP3 is 'integrated' into R10, do I just do the XL R9.5->XL R10 upgrade (and add the Hair for $0) or does one also need to upgrade BP2.5->BP3?

Thank you,

Robert

spirozero
10-04-2006, 10:49 PM
For those of you in North & South America clamoring for pricing info & to pre-order - the U.S. Shop is now open for business.

http://www.maxonshop.com/.

I think the links are a little screwy ... at least in Safari. When I click on "Upgrades" it takes me to "Resources."

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 10:51 PM
Don't know about that. I click on the cart to 'Add to cart' and the resulting screen is blank (Firefox - latest).


Hmm, no problems here. What product are you adding? Does it happen with any product?


Also, I have a question. I have Cinema 4D XL R9.5 + BP2.5 Hair. What all do I need here? Since BP3 is 'integrated' into R10, do I just do the XL R9.5->XL R10 upgrade (and add the Hair for $0) or does one also need to upgrade BP2.5->BP3?


BP 2.5 to BP 3 is for standalone users only. You want the XL upgrade plus the free Hair maintainence upgrade.

BTW - please everyone make sure to request your maintanence upgrade for any modules you own that aren't part of your bundle (no need if it is part of the bundle you're upgrading to)

- Rick -

unseenthings
10-04-2006, 10:51 PM
Yes I just confirmed with Rafi that the price was $495 USD as well. Which is about $560.00 CDN at present. I called Resolve on it, (I think they wanted to charge to much for MoGraph as I recall) to see if they will bring their price more in line with Maxon's. I can appreciate paying a bit more to avoid duty and International Shipping but not $300.

For any Canadian's out there I'll let you know what they say.

I also asked Rafi specifically about an upgrade fee for MoGraph and she said no, the original serial numbers should work for R10. So don't know if that is just for older modules like Hair and Dynamics.
According to the maxonshop website, that $495 for Studio 9.5 to Studio 10 upgrade is *only* if you already have the Hair module (which is now included in Studio). If you don't have the Hair module, it's $995 USD. It also shows at the bottom of the order page that there's no upgrade fee for MoGraph, but warns that you should specify that you need to upgrade it to R10 at the same time or there could be a fee later.

does mograph come with studio now?
From what I understand, Hair is now included with studio, but MoGraph is not. It's too new, apparently.

pid
10-04-2006, 10:52 PM
In germany upgrade from R9.5 studio bundle to R10 studio bundle is EUR 835,20.
The last upgrade from R9 studio bundle to R9.5 studio bundle was EUR 299,--.
O.K. now Hair is included but Bodypaint went to the core bundle, Pyro Cluster is now in ThinkingPartikels and for Mograph you have to pay another EUR 379,--.

I feel very sad that Maxon didn't include all modules in the new studio bundle upgrade, because that makes the upgrade very expensive in comparision to old upgrades ... and there seems no chance for a special with mograph.

Is there a better place out there to get a better price for a complete sb+mograph upgrade?

pid

squidinc
10-04-2006, 11:00 PM
UK - £279 (£328 inc vat) to upgrade frm 9.5XL to 10XL. In my case it was an additional £30 to upgrade my Hair module licence. Luckily Bodypaint was rolled into core or that would have been another £30 :D
Boxy

30 quid just to make hair work with R10?.. I only bought the damn thing a month ago!

will I have to pay for sketch to be "upgraded" as well?

(also lucky for me that BP is now included.. or that would of been £90 on top of £328)

pid
10-04-2006, 11:06 PM
30 quid just to make hair work with R10?.. I only bought the damn thing a month ago!

will I have to pay for sketch to be "upgraded" as well?

(also lucky for me that BP is now included.. or that would of been £90 on top of £328)
I feel the same and I think our PlugIn developers out there are much more friendly with their update-strategy... they mostly do it for nothing. Thanks to all of them. Maxon should also do so.

pid

wuensch
10-04-2006, 11:09 PM
UK - £279 (£328 inc vat) to upgrade frm 9.5XL to 10XL. In my case it was an additional £30 to upgrade my Hair module licence. Luckily Bodypaint was rolled into core or that would have been another £30 :D
Boxy

No, if it is the same procedure as in the past you only pay the fee once, no matter how many modules you update.

Olli

jsls
10-04-2006, 11:10 PM
Sure glade I bought hair, otherwise that would be one very steep upgrade...:sad:

LucentDreams
10-04-2006, 11:17 PM
I feel the same and I think our PlugIn developers out there are much more friendly with their update-strategy... they mostly do it for nothing. Thanks to all of them. Maxon should also do so.

pid

9.1 and 9.6 ;) they do free upgrades, but they also need to make money to pay their developers sales people, demo artists (hi mom) and the likes so now and then they gotta charge, they make sure thats when they have enough major features to justify the cost. Honeslty if the features aren't enough for the cost, don't get it, wait until the upgrade offers the thigs you really need.

Kuroyume0161
10-04-2006, 11:34 PM
Hmm, no problems here. What product are you adding? Does it happen with any product?

I had the same problem with Upgrades to Resources and then did a search. Adding products with the search failed.

When I went back, Upgrades was Upgrades and everything went without a hitch (well, except that it wants a FROM date on the credit card - which mine doesn't have - only a valid TO date. I hope that I got it right and it won't delay the order).

BP 2.5 to BP 3 is for standalone users only. You want the XL upgrade plus the free Hair maintainence upgrade.

Make my day, Maxon. ;P I just decided it was time to up to Studio, so all of the modules are available - except Hair which I upgraded for $0. I'm keep the Mac end as the core C4D (for now) until I can afford to upgrade that to XL or Studio. Mainly for plugin development purposes at this time.

Thanks, Rick!

Robert

spirozero
10-04-2006, 11:35 PM
Geesh - I think I'm screwed. I have 9.5XL + Hair + S&T + MoGraph. I'd have to pay $1545.00 US just to upgrade to the Studio Bundle.

Bummer. I was hoping to add Bodypaint (I could care less about Dynamics). Oh well. Guess I'm sticking with XL.

Kuroyume0161
10-04-2006, 11:40 PM
Geesh - I think I'm screwed. I have 9.5XL + Hair + S&T + MoGraph. I'd have to pay $1545.00 US just to upgrade to the Studio Bundle.

Bummer. I was hoping to add Bodypaint (I could care less about Dynamics). Oh well. Guess I'm sticking with XL.

BodyPaint is part of the core now - or is that the problem? Too much either way for ya? Hair = $0 upgrade (if that helps at all).

Robert

squidinc
10-04-2006, 11:41 PM
Will we get a full boxed version if we order an upgrade to R10 XL, Studio etc. I dont want to have to install R9 first, then 9.5 etc

it's not going to be just a dvd case with an R10_uprade.exe on it

spirozero
10-04-2006, 11:45 PM
BodyPaint is part of the core now - or is that the problem? Too much either way for ya? Hair = $0 upgrade (if that helps at all).

Robert

I'm just thinking - why pay $1545.00 for the Studio Bundle, which includes Bodypaint, Hair, S&T, and Dynamics when I've already got Hair + S&T? So basically, instead of adding four new modules, I'd just be adding two.

Right?

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 11:52 PM
Will we get a full boxed version if we order an upgrade to R10 XL, Studio etc. I dont want to have to install R9 first, then 9.5 etc - it's not going to be just a dvd case with an R10_uprade.exe on it

Not to worry. We only do that with dot upgrades. R10 will be a completely new box, with a completely new installer, completely new set of serials, completely new quickstart and a completely new set of video tutorials (which are going to be really extensive btw).

LoopCorp
10-04-2006, 11:53 PM
I just spoke to Maxon UK. It appears there's a £30 fee for Mograph owners who want to upgrade to R10. This is to create a new serial number. Is it just me or does this sound a little dodgy?

Will

Sounds like they heard you:

"FREE MODULE UPDATE OPTION
For a limited period Maxon UK will not charge you for any update required for a module outside a bundle that hasn't had a major upgrade. Normally the fee for module updates is £30 ex VAT, but for the moment we are offering this service for free. For example if you owned R9.5 and Thinking Particles, then you can order the R9.5 to R10 upgrade for £139 ex VAT and add on the module upgrade free for £0 to update your Thinking Particles so it works with R10. This free service is for any module that hasn't had a major upgrade since your current version, ie from R9.5: Dynamics, Hair, Mograph, Net Render, Sketch & Toon & Thinking Particles. You can order this free update via the online shop or by calling us. Please note that if you've already ordered, we will automatically waiver the module update fee cost if you'd been quoted an upgrade including this."

RickBarrett
10-04-2006, 11:54 PM
I'm just thinking - why pay $1545.00 for the Studio Bundle, which includes Bodypaint, Hair, S&T, and Dynamics when I've already got Hair + S&T? So basically, instead of adding four new modules, I'd just be adding two.
Right?

Yeah, I was just going to post that - you only need Dynamics and Net Unlimited to make a Studio Bundle (if you really need them) - that's about $800 + $495 for your XL Bundle so it's a couple hundred dollars cheaper.

- Rick -
(not a sales rep)

boxy
10-04-2006, 11:57 PM
No, if it is the same procedure as in the past you only pay the fee once, no matter how many modules you update.

Olli

Oh I see, well if that is the case, no problem.
Thanks
Boxy

spirozero
10-04-2006, 11:57 PM
Yeah, I was just going to post that - you only need Dynamics and Net Unlimited to make a Studio Bundle (if you really need them) - that's about $800 + $495 for your XL Bundle so it's a couple hundred dollars cheaper.

- Rick -
(not a sales rep)

But then there's Bodypaint, which is like $895.00, right?

See, I'm stuck. I guess I'll just stick with XL. I'll miss Bodypaint, but I have absolutely no need for Dynamics or Net Unlimited.

LucentDreams
10-05-2006, 12:00 AM
you don't buy bodypaint separate at all anymore, its part of the cinema core, no charge

spirozero
10-05-2006, 12:02 AM
you don't buy bodypaint separate at all anymore, its part of the cinema core, no charge

When you say "cinema core" you mean Studio Bundle, right? Or is it also part of XL???

kromekat
10-05-2006, 12:05 AM
Will we get a full boxed version if we order an upgrade to R10 XL, Studio etc. I dont want to have to install R9 first, then 9.5 etc

it's not going to be just a dvd case with an R10_uprade.exe on it

EDIT! - just read that it's a new boxed version :)

Adam

boxy
10-05-2006, 12:07 AM
@spirozero - Lol its hard to believe I know, but if you upgrade to any version 10 you get Bodypaint for no extra cost.
Boxy

Per-Anders
10-05-2006, 12:08 AM
When you say "cinema core" you mean Studio Bundle, right? Or is it also part of XL???

No, he means Cinema Core, it's in the core version of Cinema, that's all versions of Cinema 4D including the base version. Bodypaint standalone also now comes with Cinema 4D (or to put it another way no longer exists beyond the name and the layout it'll by default start up with), none of this costs any more, it's the integrated package only.

RickBarrett
10-05-2006, 12:10 AM
When you say "cinema core" you mean Studio Bundle, right? Or is it also part of XL???

BodyPaint 3D is really a part of every C4D license now. It's not a module anymore. It's an integral part of C4D.

spirozero
10-05-2006, 12:12 AM
Lol its hard to believe I know, but if you upgrade to any version 10 you get Bodypaint for no extra cost.
Boxy

Good grief. I'm so confussed. I still see Bodypaint listed by itself in Maxon's shop, but I guess it's there for all the other 3D applications, eh?

I'll get Bodypaint when I upgrade to 10 XL?

I think my tear ducts are starting to well up ...

spirozero
10-05-2006, 12:14 AM
No, he means Cinema Core, it's in the core version of Cinema, that's all versions of Cinema 4D including the base version. Bodypaint standalone also now comes with Cinema 4D (or to put it another way no longer exists beyond the name and the layout it'll by default start up with), none of this costs any more, it's the integrated package only.

Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon!

Gotta go - must place a call to my good friend Rafi!!!

Kuroyume0161
10-05-2006, 12:32 AM
Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon!

Gotta go - must place a call to my good friend Rafi!!!

Didn't I say that BP was part of the core - that's the CORE (not XL or Studio). ;D That means, for me, my core MacOS upgrade should now have BP3 (Yay!!) and for you, heaven we hope. :)

And I'll join the chorus:

Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon! Thank you Maxon!

(I just copied and pasted some of yours) ;)

Robert

Incarnadine
10-05-2006, 12:41 AM
So, Master Code Ninja Robert, how fast can you upgrade your IPP? (grin - you got me hooked on that now!)

dawsonbob
10-05-2006, 12:54 AM
Okay, I'm drooling over R10. All I need now is the money for the upgrade. I would sell my first born son into slavery, except he's 39 years old and would probably punch my lights out. Hmmm...there must be a way. Think, Bobby, think. Must have R10.

Bob Dawson

Kuroyume0161
10-05-2006, 12:59 AM
So, Master Code Ninja Robert, how fast can you upgrade your IPP? (grin - you got me hooked on that now!)

(Cough, cough) We're you talking to me? The ninja is invisible - hidden and unseen as he wields his powers. I am nobody (don't call me PC). :)

Well, if I download the R10 demo, I'll have access to the api for updating IPP. But, as far as I know, the MacOS version of R10 is UB only - which leaves us (Mac users that is) in a bit of a bind.

Looks like Maxon has preempted my schedule. I was going to attempt more features before addressing other versions (x64, UB). But now it looks that after the IPP update to be released in a couple days, it will be time to work on all of these other versions (x64, UB, R10). UB, and thus R10, may take a month or so to resolve the aforementioned MacOS-related issue (and whatever changes are required for R10).

When the IPP update is released, the webpage will be updated with relevant information concerning these other versions.

Robert

Incarnadine
10-05-2006, 01:11 AM
Robert, I think you understand I was jesting. If and when you can,it will be appreciated. I AM really having a lot of fun with IPP so far and I also do understand such shifts in schedules/goalposts.

davesink
10-05-2006, 01:42 AM
as far as I know, the MacOS version of R10 is UB only - which leaves us (Mac users that is) in a bit of a bind.
Robert

UB only? The demo opens on my G5 no prob, though I don't know about plugin compatability. I would expect it like 9.6 UB, some work, some don't.

Dave W.

dawsonbob
10-05-2006, 01:46 AM
UB only? The demo opens on my G5 no prob, though I don't know about plugin compatability. I would expect it like 9.6 UB, some work, some don't.

Dave W.

The UB version works on both PowerPC's and MacIntel. I, too, am running a G5, but it will work just fine.

Bob Dawson

Primitiv
10-05-2006, 01:50 AM
For some users, the release bring little new with mostly interface
improvements. But don't forget that they included BodyPaint and Pyrocluster.


However, as it happened so much in the past, Maxon is including tools that
were already covered by 3rd party plug-ins such as Joints and Visual
Selector. If you can't innovate...integrate; seems to be Maxon's real motto.
Underwhelming upgrade for many, R10 reaffirms Maxon's will to compete with
3rd party developers.

Kuroyume0161
10-05-2006, 01:59 AM
The UB version works on both PowerPC's and MacIntel. I, too, am running a G5, but it will work just fine.

Bob Dawson

Right, but non-UB plugins won't work - and there is no recourse since there is only a UB version (from what I've read). For now, IPP Mac users will need to stick to using it with R9.x until I can make the UB version available.

Robert

flingster
10-05-2006, 02:14 AM
why isn't mograph part of studio? i don't get it..because it would be two modules upgrading to and the cost would look to big...so now we have to wait until R11 to get it in..given that in the past bundling never took place on point releases...thats just messed thinking imo.
studio is supposed to be comprehensive package really...not most things package. this is what hacks me off with the module methodology...it gives me ball ache to be honest..
i'll stump up for studio and mograph in the end i just can't understand why bundle and then start unbundling its lunacy par excellence imho.

mo is to new! what and hair isn't or BP isn't...its just nuts...all just nuts...
http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/frech/e045.gif
http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/boese/a040.gif

Primitiv
10-05-2006, 02:22 AM
This is the layout i'm using, i'll upload it later if someone wants it (the image in the texture view is a render i found on the web, it's by Jacques De Fontaine)

http://thirdeye.cgcommunity.com/gui.jpg

Looks like Lightwave. Horrible. Also, it leaves very little for working view. I optimized my interface so I can get the largest view possible and still manage tools around. To each his own I guess.

AdamT
10-05-2006, 02:46 AM
However, as it happened so much in the past, Maxon is including tools that
were already covered by 3rd party plug-ins such as Joints and Visual
Selector. If you can't innovate...integrate; seems to be Maxon's real motto.
Underwhelming upgrade for many, R10 reaffirms Maxon's will to compete with
3rd party developers.
No, I don't think that's fair. First, with respect to Visual Selector, Maxon isn't "competing" with Paul Everett. Paul is working *for* Maxon and VS is no longer a commercial plugin. Ever wonder why?

As has been explained before, Maxon plans its features far in advance of release, and when it appears that their in-progress development may cover some of the same ground as a subsequent plugin, the plugin developer is apprised of the situation.

LemonNado
10-05-2006, 03:07 AM
Looks like Lightwave. Horrible.

I dissagree. It's Modo and Hexagon's evil offspring... lol

Rainer



PS:I was just about done learning how to work with the 'old' setup and just started to be productive.... Now a new challenge.... sighhh.

Primitiv
10-05-2006, 03:29 AM
I respect your right to disagree. However, it is not the first time it happened and it does shake the customer's willingness to buy 3rd party plug-ins, or modules for that matter.

In a way, I am happy that Maxon integrates good tools to make the core even better. But why not give registered customers of these 3rd party tools some slack then?

And my big question here is does this integration of plug-ins and modules really warrant a R10 at all? I am not sure about this. There are some valuable new tools in R10, especially for CA. How they will stand the test of real CA done with C4D is still questionable. Mocca was a big thing until most people ignored it. Cactus Dan brought us great tools to make C4D more CA friendly, and I just hate to see Maxon put a hold on his efforts like this. Already people question if CD Joints is irrelevant. This happened to several plug-ins in the last couple of years. I am not sure how this affect 3rd party developers.

Also, check Cactus Dan prices, or Rui, or Samir, etc. They offer really good deals on their plug-ins. And they give excellent support. Maxon should just endorse them more, distribute them, I don't know. They should work with the 3rd party developers in a more cohesive manner and not just duplicate their work then cash the money on their base users. Somehow I think it is wrong. I might be wrong on this but this is how it makes me feel.

Per-Anders
10-05-2006, 03:45 AM
I think a point you're maybe missing is that most of C4D R10 is not plugin updates and integration.

A joints based system is not the preserve of any plugin developer nor is it based on any plugin, Maya and others have been using a joints based system for years, would you sooner that Cinema wasn't updated because a plugin exists for x feature? So no more AR updates because Final Render exists for instance? The Mocca core is totally new and not an integrated older as is the new CA core in the main app plugin, the users begged for CA updates and now you have it. You're also missing out that those plugins that have been brought in have been totally rewritten for R10, Maxon has paid for their development and improvement to the standards required for being a part of the C4D core, they continue to pay for their support, manuals and the rest, when many plugin developers may have over time simple dropped support.

It would be a bit silly to expect Maxon to subsidise developers, they're not a charity, but a business. They give a lot of support as it is far more than most other developers (even the ones where you have to pay for the privelage of SDK support).

Primitiv
10-05-2006, 04:14 AM
What I am saying is that in my opinion 3rd party developers are critical to C4D success. It is an honest opinion, though I agree that Maxon is a business company and they do what seems best for themselves and hopefully their user base.

unseenthings
10-05-2006, 04:28 AM
IIn a way, I am happy that Maxon integrates good tools to make the core even better. But why not give registered customers of these 3rd party tools some slack then?
Well, in Maxon's defense, they're not just slapping these plugins in there, like a recent (r8) lightwave release did (so I heard)... they're changed, they're ugpraded, and they're presumably going to be available for UB and 64 bit, which is a big deal for a lot of people, since a lot of those plugins weren't available anymore, and even if you'd bought the old version, it wouldn't run in your newest version of cinema (Ub or xp64). Not to mention people upgrading their plugins from really old sdk's to current probably required a re-write in most cases...

The interactive previewer is kindof similar to sniper pro, but it's about 10,000 times better. That's just one example.

Beyond that, they re-wrote the mocca stuff (with the muscles and morphing and VAMP and all that), re-wrote the timeline/f-curve stuff -- even if you're not doing CA, if you're doing *any* kind of A, that's going to help :) The enhanced opengl view is *very* nice and gives a much, much better representation of the final render, and the ability to create a preview render doing that.. man, that's just super.

IMHO -- not unlike most recent updates -- it doesn't *sound* like it's all that much, but one once you get in and start playing with the demo and the files and seeing what's there and how it works... it's sweeeeeet.

tntx
10-05-2006, 06:50 AM
GREAT UPDATE!!! ♥

RI0 need 1sec. to open - amazing speed. ♥

Srek
10-05-2006, 08:00 AM
Yes, i think we forgot to mention that on the website :)
On first startup R10 should load a good deal faster then R9 and on subsequent starts very much faster.
Cheers
Björn

mecha
10-05-2006, 08:46 AM
Even though I switched to Maya a few months ago this update looks sweet and may I say what a smart move to make BP3 and Cinema Core one package. Now, more studios that use BP will have a full C4D to play with - hopefully meaning we may start to see the big boys use C4D for more than title sequences.

Well done Maxon!

I will be getting BP3, but wont be upgrading the rest!

mecha

jamacsween
10-05-2006, 12:50 PM
Even though I switched to Maya a few months ago this update looks sweet and may I say what a smart move to make BP3 and Cinema Core one package. Now, more studios that use BP will have a full C4D to play with - hopefully meaning we may start to see the big boys use C4D for more than title sequences.

Well done Maxon!

I will be getting BP3, but wont be upgrading the rest!

mecha


I agree, very smart move...given popularity of BP the exposure from this to C4D core should be fantastic.

JA

hentsteph
10-05-2006, 02:13 PM
BP3 is in C4D R10 core but where is Pyrocluster now?

vbvcvj
10-05-2006, 02:17 PM
BP3 is in C4D R10 core but where is Pyrocluster now?

Pyrocluster now is a built-in part of Advanced Render module.

yolao
10-05-2006, 02:53 PM
big congratulations to maxon.

That enhanced open GL is the most advanced open GL that i have ever seen, opposite from the one from modo 202 where what you see in the view port is diffetent from what you see in the actual render.....but here the view port open GL and the render are very similar.. SWEET:thumbsup:..

Some questions please...

-Does C4D have now SSS material for skin?

-Speaking of SSS and enhanced open GL, does the enhanced open GL preview SSS material as well (if C4D has them)

-Can i also preview displacement maps in the enhanced open GL?

-Do i have the option to use BodyPaint with the enhanced open GL?...i know that i also have raybrush render, but this enhanced open GL looks great and is always ON, i mean with raybrush render if i rotate the model i lose the R. Render and i have to turn it on again..

thanks

Srek
10-05-2006, 03:07 PM
SSS needs some serious calculation power and is not possible with OGL.
For Painting it can't be used either since the process of keeping the bitmap current is to slow.
Cheers
Björn

moka.studio
10-05-2006, 03:12 PM
big congratulations to maxon.

That enhanced open GL is the most advanced open GL that i have ever seen, opposite from the one from modo 202 where what you see in the view port is diffetent from what you see in the actual render.....but here the view port open GL and the render are very similar.. SWEET:thumbsup:..

Some questions please...

-Does C4D have now SSS material for skin?

-Speaking of SSS and enhanced open GL, does the enhanced open GL preview SSS material as well (if C4D has them)

-Can i also preview displacement maps in the enhanced open GL?

-Do i have the option to use BodyPaint with the enhanced open GL?...i know that i also have raybrush render, but this enhanced open GL looks great and is always ON, i mean with raybrush render if i rotate the model i lose the R. Render and i have to turn it on again..

thanks

C4d has a SSS material. However it is slow, there is also a plugin material called Transluscent Pro which is a good alternative, I don't know if it will work with the new release.

If you want to have a look at the displacement, the best solution right now I think is to use the Displace Deformer from the Mograph module

ArndtvonKoenigsmarck
10-05-2006, 03:18 PM
there is also a plugin material called Transluscent Pro which is a good alternative, I don't know if it will work with the new release.


Yes, Translucent Pro and Vreel Skin just work fine with v10.

AdamT
10-05-2006, 03:31 PM
The built-in Chanlum shader is also a pretty good SSS fake.

ThirdEye
10-05-2006, 03:35 PM
If someone wants that layout...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3907260#post3907260

yolao
10-05-2006, 03:36 PM
thanks guys, i have never used C4D before with the exception of some tests with the hair (wich is fantastic), but i do use everytime that i do textures bodypaint and it rocks big time.

I just download the demo and i will go for a test drive:).

-About the muscle system, does it compare to the muscle system by M. Comet?

-Speaking of hair, does hair support rendering with GI and FG with HDR maps?

thanks

ThirdEye
10-05-2006, 03:39 PM
-Speaking of hair, does hair support rendering with GI and FG with HDR maps?

Yes, it does.

Incarnadine
10-05-2006, 04:07 PM
I'm going for it. Wanted BP for a while but could really justify it as a separate module as a hobby. Same for PyroCluster. Since both are now in the two parts I do have (Core/AR) this is a wonderful deal for me. I am actually going to celebrate this and add the Hat (Hair) module to boot. (very big grin)

Venkman
10-05-2006, 04:31 PM
Well, as I'm focusing more and more on game development, I would love for someone to hook me up with a link that really gets into the nitty gritty of the new features in BP3d.

Can bodypaint paint displacments/normal maps yet?

The pelting features are great, but man, my 3d engine eats normal maps/ displacements for breakfast.

It is between BP3 and zBrush for me. I think if BP3 had displacement painting they could crush zBrush with their usable interface.

Venkman
10-05-2006, 04:38 PM
Even though I switched to Maya a few months ago this update looks sweet and may I say what a smart move to make BP3 and Cinema Core one package. Now, more studios that use BP will have a full C4D to play with - hopefully meaning we may start to see the big boys use C4D for more than title sequences.

Well done Maxon!

I will be getting BP3, but wont be upgrading the rest!

mecha


Question- If I buy the bodypaint full version, does it mean I get the full core of C4d v10? They cost the same anyway, so is there any advantage to just getting Bodypaint by itself?

AdamT
10-05-2006, 04:41 PM
I wonder if they're going to keep selling the module version? It makes no sense to buy it, since you get the exact same functionality with C4D Core plus you get C4D Core!

mecha
10-05-2006, 04:58 PM
Question- If I buy the bodypaint full version, does it mean I get the full core of C4d v10? They cost the same anyway, so is there any advantage to just getting Bodypaint by itself?

I have a similar question! I have 9.6 XL and Bodypaint 2.5 module, how much is it going to cost to get BP3? Will I still be able to run 9.6 and Hair?

mecha

Srek
10-05-2006, 05:00 PM
Question- If I buy the bodypaint full version, does it mean I get the full core of C4d v10? They cost the same anyway, so is there any advantage to just getting Bodypaint by itself?
For a CINEMA user, no. For users of other apps, a small one. Different to CINEMA BP will start in painting layout, otherwise the two are identical though actual content shipping with both might vary.
BP Standalone is not targeted to CINEMA users

I wonder if they're going to keep selling the module version? It makes no sense to buy it, since you get the exact same functionality with C4D Core plus you get C4D Core!
No, a module version of BP does not make any sense after it was integrated in the core.

Cheers
Björn

Venkman
10-05-2006, 05:08 PM
For a CINEMA user, no. For users of other apps, a small one. Different to CINEMA BP will start in painting layout, otherwise the two are identical though actual content shipping with both might vary.
BP Standalone is not targeted to CINEMA users


Thanks, Bro. I will look into this heavily, especially if the stand alone duplicates functionality of C4d core. Nice bonus for the Maya users.

I can't wait for more details on this one. With things like zBrush and Modo out there all around the same pricepoint, it becomes very difficult to decide.

cbowyer
10-05-2006, 06:20 PM
Yes I just confirmed with Rafi that the price was $495 USD as well. Which is about $560.00 CDN at present. I called Resolve on it, (I think they wanted to charge to much for MoGraph as I recall) to see if they will bring their price more in line with Maxon's. I can appreciate paying a bit more to avoid duty and International Shipping but not $300.

For any Canadian's out there I'll let you know what they say.

I also asked Rafi specifically about an upgrade fee for MoGraph and she said no, the original serial numbers should work for R10. So don't know if that is just for older modules like Hair and Dynamics.

For anyone in Canada thinking about ordering R10 from Resolve I just received this god news from them:

Hi again Cameron,

I double-checked the price with Maxon and you do appear to be correct about the upgrade price from R9.5 XL to R10 XL as being $495 USD. As a result, the Canadian cost comes out to $570 in my spreadsheet.

All I have been told is that the R10 release will start shipping in the next few weeks. I don't have any more exact info than that.

Regarding the MoGraph module, I'm not really sure what the UK rationale is, but I have just been told that if you include your Mograph serial number with your C4D XL upgrade, we will be able to do this for you at no charge.

We will be updating our website/web store as soon as we have a complete price list from Maxon which should be in the next few days.

Since I'm going to be out of the office this afternoon, you can speak with my colleague Amy who can take your pre-order details.

Hope this helps,

All the best,

Tamás

That was from the Vancouver office. they also have an office in Toronto.

LucentDreams
10-05-2006, 06:51 PM
For anyone in Canada thinking about ordering R10 from Resolve I just received this god news from them:



That was from the Vancouver office. they also have an office in Toronto.

its a mail box and a line that forwards to vancouver ;)

cbowyer
10-05-2006, 07:02 PM
its a mail box and a line that forwards to vancouver ;)

Hey. I can totally understand why. Just ordered my copy from Tamas, and am looking forward to the new release.

BTW you've been doing a great job with Cineversity.

Damsel
10-05-2006, 07:21 PM
If someone wants that layout...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3907260#post3907260

Thanks so much ThirdEye!! :)

benytone
10-05-2006, 07:58 PM
Being less of a CA guy, my favorite features are:

*Layers/bookmarks;
*improved timeline/f-curves;
*collapsing managers;
*improved selection tools (yea! finally using standard shift/control selection!);
*interactive render region;
*integrated PowerSlider.
.

Everything that you said +
-Character
-Enhanced OpenGL
-New Style
-VAMP
-and new demoreel and homepage-style ( looks very nice -killer )

.

Venkman
10-05-2006, 08:03 PM
I guess I'll have to download the Bodypaint demo tonight, which means I'll get a sales call a day later! ;)

dawsonbob
10-05-2006, 08:54 PM
I guess I'll have to download the Bodypaint demo tonight, which means I'll get a sales call a day later! ;)

It never hurts to talk to Rafi.

Bob Dawson

Venkman
10-05-2006, 09:02 PM
It never hurts to talk to Rafi.

Oh, yes it does. It hurts my wallet! Talking to her is like listening to the song of the sirens...

must... buy... software... don't need food, heat, or running water...

I cannot resist!

;)

dawsonbob
10-05-2006, 09:07 PM
Oh, yes it does. It hurts my wallet! Talking to her is like listening to the song of the sirens...

must... buy... software... don't need food, heat, or running water...

I cannot resist!

;)

Well, yeah, but she's so nice to talk to.

Bob Dawson

Kuroyume0161
10-05-2006, 09:10 PM
Oh, yes it does. It hurts my wallet! Talking to her is like listening to the song of the sirens...

must... buy... software... don't need food, heat, or running water...

I cannot resist!

;)

Amen, bro!

Sweet persuasion with big, long gnarly teeth and claws (that's the effect not what she looks like). ;P

Robert

LucentDreams
10-05-2006, 09:31 PM
some notes on BP update


16bit/32 bit painting
New LCSM unwrapping
new path selection tool, great for lcsm seam selecting
Linup command, lines up points.
Improved UV terrace
unstitch command
New ability to save out a projection layer edit in photoshop, and reload before applying it. this in conjunstion with the freeze projection layer and detatch projection layers make BP still the most powerful projection painting system (granted Zbrush does two of those things now too)

You can't use the new OGL features in bodypaint! so don't expect to see your bumpmaps and normal maps all pretty like in the editor. and No displacement sculpting, though thats a modeling tool not a painting too perse thoguh I'm getting into technicalities on that. Now that cinema and bp are combined I think the likelynees of ZBrush like tools will be more plausible/sensible.

Venkman
10-05-2006, 10:55 PM
some notes on BP update


16bit/32 bit painting
New LCSM unwrapping
new path selection tool, great for lcsm seam selecting
Linup command, lines up points.
Improved UV terrace
unstitch command
New ability to save out a projection layer edit in photoshop, and reload before applying it. this in conjunstion with the freeze projection layer and detatch projection layers make BP still the most powerful projection painting system (granted Zbrush does two of those things now too)

You can't use the new OGL features in bodypaint! so don't expect to see your bumpmaps and normal maps all pretty like in the editor. and No displacement sculpting, though thats a modeling tool not a painting too perse thoguh I'm getting into technicalities on that. Now that cinema and bp are combined I think the likelynees of ZBrush like tools will be more plausible/sensible.

Thanks, Kai. I think not being able to see bump maps/normal maps in OpenGL is kinda crappy, but I guess I can see those in Maya. Sounds like it is a decent upgrade. I will hammer the demo to see how I like it.

Thank God for Maxon's unlimited demo time.

I want to see more Demo movies (I already saw yours on Cineversity).

yolao
10-05-2006, 11:15 PM
some notes on BP update

You can't use the new OGL features in bodypaint! so don't expect to see your bumpmaps and normal maps all pretty like in the editor.

mmm:sad:..... i was hoping to use that fantastic OGL with BP... either way BP rocks and the new version has some cool things too.:thumbsup:.

I wan to ask about C4D R10.

Does it have automatic rigging like final rig http://www.radiantsquare.com/modules/gallery2/
or the setup machine http://www.anzovin.com/TSM2Maya/ ??

I`m not talkin about just a rig that you scale acordind to the mesh, i`m talking about a rig that after you scale it and apply to the mesh you will have all the controls and handles of a full rigged ready to animate mesh (with the exception of the weighting and skinning)

thanks in advance for the info

Incarnadine
10-06-2006, 01:31 AM
Ah Rafi (Maxon's secret weapon), well I can now say that I am another victim. Just placed the order for the Core/AR upgrade and added the Hair module.

dawsonbob
10-06-2006, 01:37 AM
Ah Rafi (Maxon's secret weapon), well I can now say that I am another victim. Just placed the order for the Core/AR upgrade and added the Hair module.

It's amazing how she does that. Talk about Maxon Magic.

Bob Dawson

LucentDreams
10-06-2006, 02:33 AM
mmm:sad:..... i was hoping to use that fantastic OGL with BP... either way BP rocks and the new version has some cool things too.:thumbsup:.

I wan to ask about C4D R10.

Does it have automatic rigging like final rig http://www.radiantsquare.com/modules/gallery2/
or the setup machine http://www.anzovin.com/TSM2Maya/ ??

I`m not talkin about just a rig that you scale acordind to the mesh, i`m talking about a rig that after you scale it and apply to the mesh you will have all the controls and handles of a full rigged ready to animate mesh (with the exception of the weighting and skinning)

thanks in advance for the info

yes there is a pretty decent on in there made by Mike Batchelor. Its pretty easy to do overall, takes some time to setup but the concept is easy. Anyways ont he goodies there will be a rish whith nulls you place and then you change some switchsches and the full rig is ready to aniamte, hand controllers and such in tact.

yolao
10-06-2006, 02:50 AM
yes there is a pretty decent on in there made by Mike Batchelor. Its pretty easy to do overall, takes some time to setup but the concept is easy. Anyways ont he goodies there will be a rish whith nulls you place and then you change some switchsches and the full rig is ready to aniamte, hand controllers and such in tact.

thanks for the info Kai, i will begin to investigate the demo of R10.... it really looks sweet:thumbsup:

Zendorf
10-06-2006, 03:08 AM
Even though I have work to do, I just can't stop playing with the demo! Congrats to the devs and beta testers, the new version is outstanding. Aside from a lack of xrefs and NLA, the new animation system is truly world class and will make animating a real pleasure:thumbsup:

Since there is currently no documentation I have a ton questions, but will ask just a couple of the immediate ones.

How do I zero out the rotations on a joint?

How can I freeze transforms on an object?

Can I mirror a morph target?

Do I have to use a pole vector...can I use a roll attribute instead? I have a particular dislike of up vector targets floating around in rigs and much prefer a wired in expression to adjust the ik rotate plane?

When using the visual selector interface, can I have it change the viewport manipulator to either rotation or translation depending on what I have selected?

It seems that the TRS widget still only performs in local object space...can I change it world space like you can in component mode?

Another longstanding bugbear seems to still be there....when multiselecting objects, I can use the ctrl click on the dots to key them, but not to unkey them. I realise that I can right click and select delete key, but it would be nice to just click the the dots like you can with a single object.

any answers would be much appreciated!

unseenthings
10-06-2006, 03:45 AM
When using the visual selector interface, can I have it change the viewport manipulator to either rotation or translation depending on what I have selected?
Yes - more specifically, you can set it to move, scale, rotate or fire off a command (via ID) -- which I guess would be *super* handy for firing off a custom script. That's gonna prove to be a veeery handy feature, I think.

benytone
10-06-2006, 07:32 PM
Only want to say, hammer strongly, the perfect animation tools......-einfach geil!

.
http://home.arcor.de/benytone/biPO.jpg
.

xeno3d
10-06-2006, 07:38 PM
So is it full blown bodypaint 3 included in the r10 core or is it a stripped down version?

bobtronic
10-06-2006, 07:40 PM
So is it full blown bodypaint 3 included in the r10 core or is it a stripped down version?

It's the full BP 3.

Bob

xeno3d
10-06-2006, 07:41 PM
Man thats sweet....

Johnny Jpeg
10-07-2006, 12:19 AM
Was there ever a discussion about when R10 is going to start shipping?

GruvDOne
10-07-2006, 12:26 AM
Was there ever a discussion about when R10 is going to start shipping?


According to the lovely Rafilia Barbos, R10 ships at the end of October

Johnny Jpeg
10-07-2006, 12:37 AM
According to the lovely Rafilia Barbos, R10 ships at the end of October
Thanks, I guess I was so excited I forgot to ask her.

shakes
10-07-2006, 04:54 AM
the viewport speed is just amazing on my mac! feels twice as quick!
and I'm so excited about BP peltmapping. congrats Maxon!

Kuroyume0161
10-07-2006, 05:58 AM
According to the lovely Rafilia Barbos, R10 ships at the end of October

Yes, Rafi said the same to me. Had to call despite ordering online - any excuse to talk to Rafi. ;)

Robert

LucentDreams
10-07-2006, 07:32 AM
the viewport speed is just amazing on my mac! feels twice as quick!
and I'm so excited about BP peltmapping. congrats Maxon!


It will really vary. First of all the ehnahnced OGL loads a lot slower typically, that sbecuse shaders and more importantly texure nweed to bestored intot he memory Simple scenes such as the flabio character from the Hair module take several extra seconds to open if saved with ehnahced ogl on. If you have a lot of geometry, caching will be a lot faster and you'll find cinema in general handles more geometry a lot better with the enhanced ogl. Transparency and Shadows in editor will add a mjor speed hit often slowing you down. instead of speeding you up.

I think for actual working, I'll keep shadows off, and only turn them on when rendering out previews and such (has been much discussion on render as editor supporting both ogl and enhanced ogl now) You can also use display tags to control whether an object uses ogl or enhanced ogl so you can have objects that are not scene by the shadows and such

GruvDOne
10-07-2006, 07:38 AM
You can also use display tags to control whether an object uses ogl or enhanced ogl so you can have objects that are not scene by the shadows and such

That's a nice touch. :)

boxy
10-07-2006, 08:30 AM
I think one of my biggest frustrations may have been sorted - the texture path thing whereby if for any reason C4D can't find your texture it takes roughly 450 million years to display a simple black surface instead. Is this this right? Anything else done on texture paths?
Cheers
Boxy

Martin Kay
10-07-2006, 09:03 AM
I don't mind the new look- it looks less tacky, but on my monitor I've had to increase icon size to max in the OM to really see them sufficiently to recognise then easily...
I,m currently using 8.5. The GI speed in 10 seems to be a bout 20% faster than 8.5, but looks to be about the same 'quality' The GI is pretty good, but plain white ceilings seem to cause a problem with patchyness, where rest of scene looks fine at lower settings. Ok I've upped the 'accuracy' for that object. I'm currently comparing c4d GI with EIs offering. Its a long process, and not come to any final conclusions yet. EI seems at the moment to be as fast without the benefit of dual core processing...
The trouble with all this GI is render times... especially if you need repro resolution.

Martin K

I'm putting some of my tests on my site.

Srek
10-07-2006, 10:02 AM
Anything else done on texture paths?
You can now use references to bitmap files in libraries (lib4d files). Simply drag the FIle from the content browser into the linkfield
Cheers
Björn