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Mibus
10-04-2006, 01:28 AM
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/images/forum_header_small.jpg

Hi everyone,

We're very proud to announce our latest CG Challenge XX - EON! It is completely free to participate in and we encourage all CGSociety forum members to go for it!

In this CG Challenge we have invited one of the world’s best writers to join the digital art community in the first CGChallenge to focus on one of the most successful science fiction novels of all time. We have also added a video category that is open to team entries.

Your challenge is to create material for the promotion of a (potential) blockbuster film based on EON, a novel by highly acclaimed writer Greg Bear. Expanded to three categories: Illustration, 3D Render and Film Trailer, the challenge is to put great words into great pictures using 2D, 3D or video format. As well as giving CGSociety permission to theme the challenge around his best selling novel EON, Greg Bear has agreed to join the judging team.

Full details are on the challenge page (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/)!

Hardware Sponsors
• Boxx Technologies
• NVIDIA

Software Sponsors
• Softimage
• Maxon
• Realviz
• Luxology
• Autodesk
• Corel
• e-on Software
• Pixologic
• E-Frontier

Media & Educational Sponsors
• The Gnomon Workshop
• Ballistic Publishing
• Stash Media

If you have any questions, feel free to head on over to the FAQ thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=412270).

[ Digg this article (http://www.digg.com/tech_news/CG_Society_Launches_it_s_next_Challenge) ]

Tarrbot
10-04-2006, 01:50 AM
Damn. This rules me out as my life barely affords me the time to read novels anymore, let alone pore over a book to imagine a scene that will WOW the competition.

Good luck to everyone. I can't wait to see new entrys and am just salivating over what imaginary wonders will be rendered in short order.

Mordalles
10-04-2006, 01:55 AM
is there a movie of the book we could watch? :D just kidding. don't think i'll take part. don't know much about eon. to lazy to find out.:sad:

chrisWhite
10-04-2006, 02:02 AM
Teams? That sounds interesting :)

GSmiley
10-04-2006, 02:03 AM
I think I'll be in on this one. I like that it will help me with both reading more and working on my illustration, two things I've been wanting to do more of.

caseofchill
10-04-2006, 02:21 AM
Interesting competition. I might have to go and grab some cliff notes.

eek
10-04-2006, 02:35 AM
For anyone who doesnt know about 'Eon', brief overview from wikipedia (contained in the spoiler)






Eon

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/da/Eon_Book_Cover.jpg/200px-Eon_Book_Cover.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Eon_Book_Cover.jpg)

The cover art of Eon




Events in Eon take place around the year 2000 (in an alternate timeline from our own), when the USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA) and USSR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union) are on the verge of nuclear war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_war). In that tense political climate an asteroid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid) appears out of near space after an unusual supernova and settles into near Earth orbit at L5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point). The two nations each try to claim this mysterious object which turns out to have been hollowed out, terraformed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming), and filled with cities that now sit empty by human beings who seemed to come from Earth's future. A team of scientists discovers the asteroid is bigger inside than outside and in particular the last chamber seems to stretch into infinity. An expedition is sent down the final chamber where it will meet humanity's descendants.

The human inhabitants of the Way come from an alternate universe, set approximately 800 years in the future. In their timeline, human civilization was nearly destroyed by the "Death", a calamitous World War involving nuclear weapons. The humans living in the Way are loosely divided into two social groups, based on cultural and political viewpoints: the conservative Naderites, who reject much of the high technology trappings of their society for a simpler life; and the futuristic Geshels, who embrace such technological advances as artificial bodies. A minor character's joke that "someone should tell Ralph about the Naderites" turns out to be an accurate prediction: the Naderites follow the humanistic teachings of Ralph Nader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader), whom they call "the Good Man."

The high technology of this civilization with their control over genetic engineering, human augmentation, and matter itself are some of the main points of interest here. Several alien species have come to live with humanity's descendants who are themselves at war with an alien race known as the Jarts from further down the corridor still.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eon_%28novel%29

cheers,

BurrowingDuck
10-04-2006, 02:38 AM
I won't have time to participate, but I loved the book and I'm looking forward to seeing what people come up with.

DaveWortley
10-04-2006, 02:45 AM
Fantastic! I've got a university project running from now till the end of january and this fits the exact timeframe! :)

A group project with 3 other people, I think we'll be making a film trailer for this then! solves our problem of what to do!

Thank you Cgtalk!

JackZhang
10-04-2006, 02:57 AM
i'm in. Yet here, i want to state my personal humble opinion:

we use to spend 3 month creating a image, a piece of work. The final work contains our skills, and our understanding of the topic. Now things have changed.

we gotta read a book before we start.

Eon, written by Greg Bear in 1985.

- For those of you who've red the book, good for you, you can start right away.

- For those of you who haven't red the book, go buy a book as ....tomorrow, or some of you, today.

- For those of you who doesn't speak english as your first language, good luck because you might end up spending the entire first month read the book or

- Someone might suggest to get a copy in your own language, then for those of you who are from asia, mid east or some "not-very-advanced-region", you are probably doomed because you might not be able to find a copy of this book at all, even in english.


I waited almost 5 month after the previous challenge, and now this is what i got. I am more confused than disappointed. I'm not sure if i understand what's in the society leaders' mind. Such a topic and rules put challengers at different starting line, I'm not sure by doing so, the challenge would be fair to everyone.

Womball
10-04-2006, 03:09 AM
I won't be entering this time around, or next time if its in 5 months. Have a senior thesis animation to do! Good luck guys!

erilaz
10-04-2006, 03:11 AM
we gotta read a book before we start.




No, you don't. The brief descriptions in the inspiration section should be enough. Reading the book is only suggested, not a requirement.

Kris-S
10-04-2006, 03:12 AM
bugger, never read the book wont have the time to. would love to give it ago creating a 3D environment would be cool.

CodeNothing
10-04-2006, 03:39 AM
If you are a 2D illustrator can you submit your work to a team doing a trailer?


example: I make a matte painting as my 2D submission. Can I also join a team doing a trailer and use the Matte in the film?

AWESOME topic by the way.

adonihs
10-04-2006, 04:23 AM
im in!! sounds fun :D

mummey
10-04-2006, 05:17 AM
Interesting change in theme. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.

On one hand: Previously the theme's were open enough so that users could almost any work they wanted.

On the other: A specific topic is more like the scenario you'll find if you get work at a studio, especially as a concept artist.

Edit: Anyone know where I can find the audio book?

SquishMe
10-04-2006, 05:21 AM
No, you don't. The brief descriptions in the inspiration section should be enough. Reading the book is only suggested, not a requirement.

Is there an inspiration section? I couldn't seem to find it.

edit: sorry, I just found the About Eon (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/about_eon.php) page

niva
10-04-2006, 05:44 AM
Oh wow, I guess you really were giving hints! After all the conflicting info I let my irritation get the best of me.

Anyways, I'm looking at this now and I'm confused if I can join at all. We shall see, good luck to all, I'm sure lots of great artwork will once again be produced here.

JamesMK
10-04-2006, 05:48 AM
Very challenging - I like it!



.

dave247
10-04-2006, 05:57 AM
Man... this seems tough... maybe I'm looking too much at the big picture here, but it seems like it would be hard to capture the essence of that book's description in a single picture. Maybe I am having a hard time visualizing what the book is alll about... that was a samll but complex description and not enough for me to really get it. Man this really seems tough. But I'll give it a try.

CodeNothing
10-04-2006, 06:00 AM
:hmm: Hmmmm... Apparently no audio book version. and I dont have a visa or master card to buy the ADOBE reader version... that means i'm stuck with some crappy paperback and trying to find time to finish a novel + artwork. This challenge is becomming a lot less convenient.


I refuse to work off of the short snippets of info for 2 reasons...

Its important to know the characters, and read all the details of the environments, and know what is going on during the time the characters are there. Mood, attitude, attention to detail, people who know the book are going to spot who didnt read it imediatly.
80% at least are going to be working from those same topics. While i may end up doing the same after reading it, I'd like the option to try and work from a more obscure scene or image not a ton of people are doing to stand out.
that being said, of course im still particepating, but i find the lack of audiobook, and the only other option is to have a credit card, very inconvenitent. I have a 3 hour commute everyday that would have been a perfect oportunity to get throught the book in a week. now i need to find time to stick my nose in a paperback with tiny little type.

grrrrr..... :banghead:

all well. I guess ill hit the book store on my way to work tomorrow...

salmonmoose
10-04-2006, 06:14 AM
Check your local 2nd hand book store, thankfully it's a pretty old title, so you should be able to pick up an older copy.

dave247
10-04-2006, 06:17 AM
My thoughts EXACTLY CodeNothing.

Pinoy McGee
10-04-2006, 06:18 AM
Questions re: 3d scene category.

The illustration requirement, should it be a rendered 3d still or can this be a 2d painting?

The animation portion, again, rendered or would you allow hand drawn and painted animation that shows motion and sense of 3d?

Do we submit the two in one entry or separate?

dave247
10-04-2006, 06:18 AM
I just bought the book for .75 cents from Half.com

P357
10-04-2006, 06:20 AM
well i'm dissapointed in the topic this time. i'll wait for the next chalenge. lets hope it's something i can participate in.

Pinoy McGee
10-04-2006, 06:29 AM
I wonder how much that "In a world..." voice over guy that usually does trailers would charge for 30 seconds. :)

JDex
10-04-2006, 06:30 AM
I wonder how much that "In a world..." voice over guy that usually does trailers would charge for 30 seconds. :)

10k per hour... LOL! Actually I was told that once, but I doubt it.

CodeNothing
10-04-2006, 06:31 AM
I have no doubt ill be able to find the book, Its old, very popular, and this is the age of the internet. But finding the TIME to sit and read a 500 page book, which only seems to be available in paperback, (small type) is going to be realy tough. I have mabie 1-2 hours a night i can spend on this challenge. I have a full time job and have freelance clients on the side. I have a 3 hour commute and i still need time to at least attempt to have a life.

Theres no doubt ill be able to finish the book, but it may take me a month or more honestly as im not a very fast reader. I dont know, I realy wish they had chosen one of the other several good sci fi books that are already audio books. Or chosen some material that could be destributed free to all that wanted to enter.

ok, ill stop complaining about the free-to enter very well organized contest with excelent prizes now. I realy do appreciate these challenges, i do, It's just kind of dissapointing im going to be so behind everyone else. :sad:

MarkSnoswell
10-04-2006, 06:41 AM
We have both Greg Bear and David Brin helping with the Judging also http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/judging.php ... and as soon as word gets around that will atract pretty much all of the modern SF writers and fans :)

Rebeccak
10-04-2006, 06:42 AM
Well, it's exciting to see this go forward. It'll be amazing to see what everyone comes up with, and the Illustration category will certainly be spicy. Looking forward to seeing everyone's entries for sure! :)

salmonmoose
10-04-2006, 06:43 AM
ok, ill stop complaining about the free-to enter very well organized contest with excelent prizes now. I realy do appreciate these challenges, i do, It's just kind of dissapointing im going to be so behind everyone else. :sad:

If it makes you feel any better, I'm not even allowed to enter :)

funkyfoe
10-04-2006, 07:15 AM
HOLY CRAP! i love this novel!!! :bounce: I think i`m gonna have to join this
challenge even if I`ve got the time or not! sweeeeet!!! :thumbsup:

silvia
10-04-2006, 07:48 AM
I have never participated to the CGSociety contests because they seem a bit out of my league, but since I have read the book and both Bear and Brin are among my favorite authors, I may give it a shot. I can always fade quietly out of the contest if I feel I am just too far behind everybody else.
Also, I understand the frustration of those who haven't read the book. The good thing I can tell you is that there are very detailed descriptive passages all over the book, so you should get an idea of what you want to do pretty quickly.

Now a couple of questions if you don't mind:
Is there a time limit to enter the contest? I would like to see if I can come up with a decent concept, before I even bother entering, so I want to know how long I have to make up my mind.
Also I would like to enter the illustration category, and was wondering if it can be somewhat abstract (like a book cover) or if it needs to be like a frame out of a film.

Thank you and good luck to everyone in the challenge.

JDex
10-04-2006, 07:53 AM
Now a couple of questions if you don't mind:
Is there a time limit to enter the contest? I would like to see if I can come up with a decent concept, before I even bother entering, so I want to know how long I have to make up my mind.
Also I would like to enter the illustration category, and was wondering if it can be somewhat abstract (like a book cover) or if it needs to be like a frame out of a film.

You can enter at anytime between now and the deadline. You must meet all the milestone requirements and there is a community participation element... so you have plenty of time to decide, but you should probably enter as soon as you plan to commit.

I believe that the illustration (well any of it actually) is open to your artistic interpretation and style. No need to lock your work in a film look.

Mobious
10-04-2006, 07:57 AM
I love watching over these challenges. They are very entertaining, and educational to see all the different projects through from beginning to end.


I read about half of the spoiler in an earlier post but then stopped because I became interested and didn’t want to know the ending.


I defiantly will not be entering this challenge as I still have much to learn, but I am very interested in this story and quite sad that there is no audiobook for it. Like many others, I don’t have much time to read a large novel.


It would be nice if one of the people in contact with this author inform him on a demand for his book in audio form, both for this challenge that he obviously supports, and others that simply want to enjoy his novel.


Perhaps he would be interested in developing one.


Just a thought…


Anyway, good luck everyone :thumbsup:

JDex
10-04-2006, 08:00 AM
I too wish it were an audiobook title on itunes... I would have picked that up way back when the preparations for the challenge began. I haven't had a lot of free eye-ball-time in recent months... in a week or so I'll have plenty of that though.

Peddy
10-04-2006, 08:10 AM
Wow this is soon!

I do like the idea of it being so much more high profile, but in another sense, it also helps ensures that the amateurs, or less confident of us don't enter the competition. I can see the calibre of work from this competition being very high indeed (more so than usual)

I'd say no, I probably won't join in, but I still like to think I would, one day...

Seven
10-04-2006, 08:12 AM
Cool! Really good challenge. Right im off to buy the book.

salmonmoose
10-04-2006, 08:15 AM
You could always throw the text version of the book through text to speech converter, leave that running in the background, they're quite good these days.

Break the book into chapters and stream the result to an MP3 file, and you can put that on your Mp3 player of choice :)

Peddy
10-04-2006, 08:21 AM
You could always throw the text version of the book through text to speech converter, leave that running in the background, they're quite good these days.

Break the book into chapters and stream the result to an MP3 file, and you can put that on your Mp3 player of choice :)

bugger the challenge, im off to patent that and get some software developers under my wing! no more cheap crack for me!

Opeth
10-04-2006, 08:24 AM
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's disappointed that reading a Novel many of us would normally not read is a such an important part of this challenge.

I shall not compete. I will not spend my time on a book for the challenge. What kind of "suggestion" is this?

I think that the "board" could have come up with a less discriminating topic.

Anyway, good luck to all of you :)

SquishMe
10-04-2006, 08:25 AM
I have never participated to the CGSociety contests because they seem a bit out of my league

I have heard this quite a bit and I don't like it. I have entered only one challenge before but it's not at all about winning. It is about making friends, getting motivation, getting constructive criticism and above all, honing your skills, whatever level they may be.
Sorry to single you out silvia, I just wanted to make a point.

Come on everybody, the more the merrier, let's get painting and chatting. It's supposed to be fun! :arteest:

machichi
10-04-2006, 08:27 AM
I'm in also. I new in this challange things but I try my best. The book is great.
I hope nearly a work, that is pro enough. I see it as a personal challange for my skills.

Good luck to all.

Srek
10-04-2006, 08:35 AM
I shall not compete. I will not spend my time on a book for the challenge.
You don't have to read anything but the challenge description. The book is a nice addition if you like SF but definitly not neccesary to read for the challenge.
Cheers
Björn

vrf
10-04-2006, 08:38 AM
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's disappointed that reading a Novel many of us would normally not read is a such an important part of this challenge.

I shall not compete. I will not spend my time on a book for the challenge. What kind of "suggestion" is this?

I think that the "board" could have come up with a less discriminating topic.

Anyway, good luck to all of you :)

It seems in your rush to oppose the reading of a book, you neglected to even read the challenge brief. The "inspiration" section and the "about Eon" section contain a very well-edited collection of the book's most descriptive scenes--the ones the administrators consider the best selections for this challenge. There is no need to read the book if you don't want to.

Opeth
10-04-2006, 08:45 AM
I understand this and have read the brief.

Still - especially with the author as one of the judges - in order to get a complete and proper view and atmosphere of the book, one must read more of it.

Also - do you not agree that one's creativity is limited to the vibe the book conveys? What I love in other challenges is that everyone could creatve images with an utterly different atmosphere and concept - here I am limited to the books atmosphere.

Do you think, for example, you will see any cartoons or comical entries this time? Anything "cute" or "happy"? Probably not many.


Look, I just think this is a narrow topic and that having it following a book, as good as it might be (admittedly, I haven't read it's Wiki page), is quite disappointing since not only the style and concepts are rather limited, but the entire atmosphere is as well.

Still interested in seeing what comes out, of course.

yousra_12
10-04-2006, 08:46 AM
More Info about EON here :

http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/about_eon.php :thumbsup:

JDex
10-04-2006, 08:50 AM
Can't please all of the people, all of the time I guess.

I actually see almost infinite room for interpretation and artistic license in this breif, and really hope I can complete an entry. Being tied to a story this broad in scope and filled with creative environments is pretty fascinating IMHO.

yousra_12
10-04-2006, 08:51 AM
also here

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0812520475/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-9648809-6522515#

SquishMe
10-04-2006, 08:57 AM
Well, since I haven't read the book yet I wasn't sure what I would end up doing. I imagined it would be a wide vista of a strange city, or a space shot of an asteroid and spaceships. Neither of which are up my alley.
But then I read in the inspiration page about the aliens. RIGHT SMACK BANG UP MY ALLEY! I can't wait to get reading and then conceptialising. Yay! :bounce:

vrf
10-04-2006, 08:57 AM
Can't please all of the people, all of the time I guess.

I actually see almost infinite room for interpretation and artistic license in this breif, and really hope I can complete an entry. Being tied to a story this broad in scope and filled with creative environments is pretty fascinating IMHO.

Wait a minute... Does someone who has known about the theme for so long get to participate, too? (Heh, you could have read the book twice in that time.)

I mean, I would trust you, but there are others here that might not... :)

JDex
10-04-2006, 09:00 AM
I believe if I partake, it won't be considered in the judging.

SquishMe
10-04-2006, 09:00 AM
Quick question.
Will Mr Bear himself be frequenting this forum, perhaps answering questions about ambiguities and under-described aspects?

Grin3d
10-04-2006, 09:24 AM
Uh, finally new challenge starts … and it sounds very cool, I haven’t yet read the bear’s novel but I’m thinking about entering …do I have enough time or not …first I order the book and read it.

Thank you for this challenge, always a lot of organization work, isn’t it ?

Great!

Grin3d

SpeccySteve
10-04-2006, 09:35 AM
Hmm, Eon is one of the few Greg Bear books that I haven't read, might go and pick it up from the library.

living_for_cg
10-04-2006, 09:59 AM
Wooooooohoooo:scream:... ! thats graet.... i will participate .I hope it will be a nice and helpfull challenge like previeuse one:bounce:... Thank you CGTALK !

buloght
10-04-2006, 10:38 AM
Ahh, a great topic. Though I was looking forward to competing and this is too narrow for me. My lack of interest in scifi books kills me here. Goodluck to all.

doffer
10-04-2006, 10:47 AM
It sounds very exciting, but very difficult at the same time.
I'm not sure I've got it right, but would a movie-poster be a valid entry for "illustration", or is a normal 3d image enough?

Great inspirational images by the way.

Jaspar
10-04-2006, 10:56 AM
Why are people so miffed about having to take the time to read a book? I can understand for those that English is not their first language. On the other hand, this is an English speaking forum, so reading a short book shouldn't be beyond the call of duty.

How much time are people going to spending on the actual challenge? I'd bet on it being many times over the time that it takes to read a book. Hell, I'm sure some of the astoundling talented people that are on this forum could knock off a great submission in a few hours, but personally for me, my time-scale is going to be measured in days or weeks if I enter this, so the hours involved in reading a book seem minor.

I reckon it's a bit of a shame that the prizes for the trailer aren't as grand as the still, after all it's going to take alot more work to do a trailer than a still, even as a team. Still, this is a fantastic, free to enter competition, so it's a bit unfair for me to nit-pick!

Anyhoo, enough of a rant from me. Think this should turn out to be a really interesting challenge! Hope I find time and inspiration to enter. My ultimate respect goes out to all those who put time in to organise this :bowdown:

Mythmaker
10-04-2006, 11:51 AM
Sounds great! I was wondering what the changes were going to be! :thumbsup:

ChewyPixels
10-04-2006, 12:08 PM
Great to finally see the challenge up and running. To be honest, I am a bit dissappointed about the topic. I mean, yes, for those that haven't read the book, as myself, there's the inspiration page to help us get started. However, the way I look at it, this wouldn't be sufficient. The top pieces to come out of this competition would more than likely be coming from those that have read the book...and it will show. Besides, I would imagine that the author would judge those pieces better than those that do not fit very well with his imagination. In other words, the judging might come out to be a bit biased. :shrug:

Ah well, enough of my whining. I guess I'm off to search for this book online. Going to have to do some speed reading the next few week...NO, days!

MarkSnoswell
10-04-2006, 12:09 PM
Quick question.
Will Mr Bear himself be frequenting this forum, perhaps answering questions about ambiguities and under-described aspects?

I am in regular contact with Greg Bear and David Brin and have just asked them to say hi on the forum here -- if they have time. Greg is right in the thick of writing a new book and may take a little time to post here. Both Greg and David are web savy and do respond to users questions -- however don't rely on that as there will be several thousand entrants and just two of them!

asela
10-04-2006, 12:20 PM
Sorry guys but i was waiting for this challenge so much so obviously i was dissapointed that
Its just not for the majority of this forum readers who have not heard, nor willing to read Eon (no matter how great it is) I think u should have stayed with the more "open" subjects.
hey, thats just my opinion.

Good luck to the guys who did read it and willing to trade thier original ideas for Greg's

SquishMe
10-04-2006, 12:31 PM
I am in regular contact with Greg Bear and David Brin and have just asked them to say hi on the forum here -- if they have time. Greg is right in the thick of writing a new book and may take a little time to post here. Both Greg and David are web savy and do respond to users questions -- however don't rely on that as there will be several thousand entrants and just two of them!

Great! I fully appreciate they are busy guys and if I do have a question, I will be sure to keep it short and simple.
I dream of being a writer one day. ah....

SpeccySteve
10-04-2006, 12:43 PM
Why are people so miffed about having to take the time to read a book? I can understand for those that English is not their first language. On the other hand, this is an English speaking forum, so reading a short book shouldn't be beyond the call of duty.


I'm a little surprised at the reaction myself, especially considering most of the people here use software that ships with manuals the size of a telephone directory.

It's a 500 page paperback, not Frank Herberts "Dune" series or all of the "Wheel of Time" books.

GingerDave
10-04-2006, 12:47 PM
Good idea for a challenge i think, i may enter the team trailer thing, though i am still considering this it would be a great opportunity to learn some new skills.

I know everyone was hyping themselves up on the "next challenge when" thread , maybe thats why some are dissapointed. :shrug: But i think its quite a nice change really, rather than saying do an illustration of topic x, it seems like there has been some serious thought put into making this challenge a little more dynamic, especially with getting the author on board.

so kudos cgs guys i say. and good luck to all those that enter.

RickBinkley
10-04-2006, 12:56 PM
I am like many of you got senior animation work coming up during this period, and I just finished an Adobe After Effects class where I did a film trailer. Generally I have the best intentions entering these contests but school usually gets in the way. So for once everything might just mesh.

I wish everyone the best of luck, and since this is running over the holiday period a early Happy Holidays to everyone where ever you may be.



Rick

Opeth
10-04-2006, 01:51 PM
Good luck to the guys who did read it and willing to trade thier original ideas for Greg's

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for putting it into words so nicely.

JTD
10-04-2006, 02:12 PM
I think the challenge has really evolved into such a professional package. I commend CGSociety for changing the challenge types and involving animation! And it's really neat to get Greg Bear involved!

As for the book: just because I read it doesn't mean I have an advantage over those that haven't...I read it some 15 years ago! Plus there's that whole thing about my serious lack of painting skills; so I think we all have strengths and weaknesses and reading the book doesn't guarantee a win. Good luck folks!

SONIC-X
10-04-2006, 02:14 PM
This sounds like a great challenge topic.I'm a big SF reading fan.

Cyberone
10-04-2006, 02:20 PM
im in :)

i think its a great idea...i think in the past the other topics have been "too open" and i think this will be alot better than the before :)

i havnt read the book but i love gregs work...i would really encourage ppl to read it cause his books are amoung my favs..

best of luck to all :0

Squash-n-Stretch
10-04-2006, 02:38 PM
Can't please all of the people, all of the time I guess.


I had mixed feelings when the challenge was announced. I have not read the book. I also thought it was constricting us to a Sci-Fi genre.

However. This is excellent training for people like myself who one day hope to pursue a career in 3D. We are going to be given briefs that we have mixed feelings about. Almost every brief will be like this. It is a great oppurtunity. The best entries. I guarantee ya the best entries will be the one's that grab the material by the balls and wow even Greg Bear with their interpretation.

Leigh, JDex, and all the rest of the mods, thanks for putting in all the effort. Can't wait to see all the entries, and getting mine together too!

MarkSnoswell
10-04-2006, 03:01 PM
I think the challenge has really evolved into such a professional package. I commend CGSociety for changing the challenge types and involving animation! And it's really neat to get Greg Bear involved!


The trailer can be done in any manner including live action and story board. It really is wide open to everyone. Illustrators, live action, flash animation, 2D animation... all have just as much chance as 3D animators. It's the impact of the trailer that counts most - the story component. A polished animated storyboard with great colourtiming, editing, music and sound FX is way better than a polished 3D animation without sound, good editing etc.

VladPascanu
10-04-2006, 03:18 PM
Guess we wont see any frogs in the trees and boobs in this challenge :applause:
Great topic :thumbsup: , i ve got some reading to do now.

sergioKomic
10-04-2006, 03:45 PM
Great Idea Guys!!:thumbsup:

Hmmm Ill probably go for the trailer!!

Reo
10-04-2006, 03:53 PM
good luck to all and I look forward to the work to come.

AnimZiggy
10-04-2006, 03:54 PM
i like the fact that the challenge gives ya a more specific topic/script. That's how its usually done in the industry out there.
Books are the best way to get inspiration n expand your creative horizons. i'll try to get hold of the book and try to come up with something! Can't promise as i ve never managed to finish any challenges so far. :shrug:
congrats with the grate idea cg talk :D

PremiereBoris
10-04-2006, 04:42 PM
would a matte painting count as a 2d illustration entry?

silvia
10-04-2006, 05:00 PM
I have heard this quite a bit and I don't like it. I have entered only one challenge before but it's not at all about winning. It is about making friends, getting motivation, getting constructive criticism and above all, honing your skills, whatever level they may be.
Sorry to single you out silvia, I just wanted to make a point.

Come on everybody, the more the merrier, let's get painting and chatting. It's supposed to be fun! :arteest:

Don't worry about singling me out, no offense taken, but I think you misunderstood my point. I will be the 1st one to tell you that participating to competitions isn't about winning, but about learning. I have competed before, on other sites, and the jump in quality of my work after each has been amazing.
What worries me is that with so many great works going around in the competition, the less spectacular would go unnoticed and receive very little attention and comments. I have noticed something similar happen in the WIP forum, where most of the threads are lucky if they get 3 or 4 comments, unless they are absolutely outstanding, in which case, they get pages and pages of feedback.
Since I work full time, and use my sleep time, and familiy and friends time for CG, I am sure you understand contests are a big comitment for me, and I enter them cautiously.
Thank you for bringing the point up, anyways, since I am sure there are other people that don't participate for the reasons you just described, and I agree with you, they should participate, they are a lot of fun!

DDS
10-04-2006, 05:04 PM
I enjoy reading and I'll buy the book right now, probably this weekend I will be done and making first concepts. Good luck to all entrants...wow I still can't believe we're doing this...it's so surreal, there must be so many cool possibilities in a "hard sci-fi" book as my boss described it.

Let's kick ass people! (http://www.ebookmall.com/ebook/111298-ebook.htm)

CodeNothing
10-04-2006, 05:06 PM
Im not supprised at all at the negative reaction some people have to this challenge. Though i dont agree with all of it. I dont feel there is any problem with having a more 'focused' topic than the traditional vague guideline previous challenges have had.


I do however sympathise with people who go to school, or work for a living. I generally have 4-5 hours a week i could dedicate to this challenge. and as i'm a slow reader it may take me two weeks or more to actualy get through the paperback.

that being said, i reminded myself im a kick ass artist and im not going to let a little thing like a paperback stand in my way! Onward to victory!!! :buttrock:

AnimZiggy
10-04-2006, 05:23 PM
Arrrrrrrr to that matey! :wise:

britofeliz
10-04-2006, 05:25 PM
About the subject. i think it´s fine, it´s ok that the people that have time to read the book entirely may do some more "complete" work. But people who read the chapters that CGtalk put in that thread is something to consider.

What i didnt understand was about that 3 to 4 seconds of animation... Because... i have 3.2ghz rendering power, if i was going to render something in at least 800x600 ( which is a low rez for the challenge) it would take a lot of time. so... i could build a still. and render...

This would be my first challenge. but because of 3/4 seconds of rendered animation ( or lots of hours rendering) i think i won´t be able to join it.

just an idea
Brito

Viper
10-04-2006, 05:29 PM
This actually sounds very interesting...I've been looking for a book to read, and trying to find something interested to make some art out of it, so I guess this challenge will solve both problems...just got the ebook and will be reading it on the next few days ;) Who knows? Maybe I'll actually finish a challenge, heh...

cLos71
10-04-2006, 05:54 PM
Bring on the challenge! WoooHooo!

cLos71
10-04-2006, 06:01 PM
"I do however sympathise with people who go to school, or work for a living. I generally have 4-5 hours a week i could dedicate to this challenge. and as i'm a slow reader it may take me two weeks or more to actualy get through the paperback."

I agree with CodeNothing
Everyone has a life... I have entered 3 or 4 challenges, unfortunately only being able to finish one. But I'm very proud of that one that I got to finish, that's part of the Challenge as well. Most of us are in front of a computer all day long and then get home to sit down in front of another computer to work on the challenge. Do we I care if I get to finish it or not yes. But it doesn't stop me from working on it regardless of if I finish it or not; it's fun!

Bring it on!

grafikimon
10-04-2006, 06:01 PM
wow I just finished reading that book like a week ago. great book.

conceptx
10-04-2006, 06:02 PM
promising fight, am glued not to miss an entry. best of luck to everyone going to participate in this one :)

VonMarsch
10-04-2006, 06:12 PM
Damn brilliant challenge :) I went to local book store to get EON and I think I'm going to finish reading tomorrow. I think I'm going with 3d... and this time I really try do something :thumbsup:

Ravenslayer
10-04-2006, 06:21 PM
:D i was really waiting for this challenge
finally one that i can join in on .

Howitzer
10-04-2006, 06:29 PM
I have this book but never got around to finish reading it. I'm not sure if I'll participate, but at least I have a reason to dig it up and finish it.

chiwoo
10-04-2006, 06:39 PM
I dont think many 3D/animation peolpe will be doing the film trailer in 3D. If the goal of the trailer cetegory is concept then it really is pointless to do a full 3D animation trailer.

I dont recommend any 3D/animation teams jumping on this one considering your beautiful animated trailer could be knocked out of the running by a slide show concepted by some genius film student in grad school.

aesir
10-04-2006, 06:45 PM
I dont think many 3D/animation peolpe will be doing the film trailer in 3D. If the goal of the trailer cetegory is concept then it really is pointless to do a full 3D animation trailer.

I dont recommend any 3D/animation teams jumping on this one considering your beautiful animated trailer could be knocked out of the running by a slide show concepted by some genius film student in grad school.


Yea seriously. And I dont reccomend any 3d artists or 2d artists entering this for the still frame comps either considering they could be knocked out by some genius professional artists....

aliasali
10-04-2006, 06:48 PM
unfortunately,this is not that brilliant for me,reading a book,and create an enviroment,is not my favorite,i was expecting a more wicked topic...
good luck to those of u who are entering the challenge!
maybe next time!

J-CoM
10-04-2006, 06:59 PM
i'm in. Yet here, i want to state my personal humble opinion:

we use to spend 3 month creating a image, a piece of work. The final work contains our skills, and our understanding of the topic. Now things have changed.

we gotta read a book before we start.

Eon, written by Greg Bear in 1985.

- For those of you who've red the book, good for you, you can start right away.

- For those of you who haven't red the book, go buy a book as ....tomorrow, or some of you, today.

- For those of you who doesn't speak english as your first language, good luck because you might end up spending the entire first month read the book or

- Someone might suggest to get a copy in your own language, then for those of you who are from asia, mid east or some "not-very-advanced-region", you are probably doomed because you might not be able to find a copy of this book at all, even in english.


I waited almost 5 month after the previous challenge, and now this is what i got. I am more confused than disappointed. I'm not sure if i understand what's in the society leaders' mind. Such a topic and rules put challengers at different starting line, I'm not sure by doing so, the challenge would be fair to everyone.



Well, I read a LOT of science fiction and lemme tell ya, the covers RARELY if EVER depict the visuals in the book accurately. In fact, I think most book-art illustrators just read the FIRST and LAST chapters and then create the cover.

So, if you could bare to read about 20 pages, you too can create SF cover-art!

pearson
10-04-2006, 07:16 PM
Well, I read a LOT of science fiction and lemme tell ya, the covers RARELY if EVER depict the visuals in the book accurately. In fact, I think most book-art illustrators just read the FIRST and LAST chapters and then create the cover.

So, if you could bare to read about 20 pages, you too can create SF cover-art!LOL! If you look at the actual cover used for the book, it's not too impressive. I'm pretty sure most of us can at least do better than the current cover. :p:thumbsup:

walrus
10-04-2006, 07:18 PM
...or you could read the entire book and create good SF cover-art! :)

I dunno, this Challenge makes total sense to me: The Challenges have always tried to make things professional quality. Take, for example, the earlier Challenge's high resolution requirements. If your work is just seen on a forum it doesn't need to be all that big, but the management always reminded folks that if you're a professional doing an illustration, these are the kids of specs you have to create to. This new Challenge is just further down along the same path: If you're creating a professional illustration for a book or movie, those that are hiring you are expecting you to make images based on all the material. Folks without as much time don't have to read the whole book, but you'll be competing against those who have and will be judged by others who are familiar with it as well.

And to top it off, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that this Challenge has the longest deadline of any Challenge I've seen in the past.

Anyhow, it all seems plenty fair and plenty professional to me... But for next time, can I start petitioning for a Terry Pratchett book? :)

-mike

w1as
10-04-2006, 07:29 PM
Does the picture has to contain the word "EON" in it?

DDS
10-04-2006, 07:42 PM
Does the picture has to contain the word "EON" in it?

is it in the instructions? then it doesn't HAVE to :)

my guess...

Mordalles
10-04-2006, 07:50 PM
terry pratchett! that would be awesome.

it would be nice to be able to choose from a few books, and not just one. im not much into sci-fi novels. :sad: but then again, i shouldn't be entering anyway, im not even an artist. :shrug:

Grin3d
10-04-2006, 07:54 PM
Why are people so miffed about having to take the time to read a book? I can understand for those that English is not their first language. On the other hand, this is an English speaking forum, so reading a short book shouldn't be beyond the call of duty.
...

I have ordered the german translation of the book and I'm sure there are other languages available, but more then 500 pages I don't call 'short'. So I hope to finish reading before Challenge ends :rolleyes:. I have expected a longer time period for this type of topic (based on a book, new animation category ...) as previous challenges have.

roman grin3d

cbernardo
10-04-2006, 08:07 PM
This challenge looks really hard! I really like to do the trailler, but I think I dont have time enough.

The 3D scene could be an action scene?

Ps.: They dont translate the book for portuguese.

[]s
carlos

mdee
10-04-2006, 08:22 PM
I am not going to participate in the challenge (have enough of those at work everyday ;) ), but I am for sure going to read the book! The description sounds very interesting, I've never heard about EON till now, thanks for good reading tip!

w1as
10-04-2006, 08:26 PM
Is this something like "War of the worlds"?
...This "EON" book is very descriptive, but pretty complicated!:eek:
Can someone tell me brief description of the story?:)

Vizfizz
10-04-2006, 08:47 PM
As one of the contest judges, I can tell you from my perspective that this is an incredible opportunity for every contestant and very much related to working in the "real world".

My company, Persistence Of Vision - Previs, specializes in previsualization and conceptual "brain storming" for the film industry. The process of this challenge isn't too far off from what we do on an every day basis. We're handed a script and maybe, if we're lucky, a couple of storyboards. We have to take it from there. POV constructs entire animated previs sequences and if given enough time, we'll assemble the entire movie in animatic form.

Here's a link to some of our work. It should help you by providing some previs sequences you can look at.

http://www.persistenceofvision.com/?area=demo-reels&content=previs_sequence_samples

For those of you considering the trailer portion of this contest...I'll be watching you carefully.

jancko
10-04-2006, 09:02 PM
I've been waiting three months for this challenge.
I haven't read the book yet, but I still think it's a great challenge.......I'll try to read the book completely, but if I get bored, so be it; throw it up and I'll manage the best that I can, and have a good time at it.
The good thing about illustration, is that you can learn things that you`d never imagine to know before. That´s my humble opinion.
Good luck to all!!

thx1138
10-04-2006, 09:12 PM
Damn, this sure looks like one of the most exciting challenges ever. Very cool idea, and I can't wait too see what everyone comes up with. Love it already.

I'll try to squeeze in an entry myself. SF is right up my alley. Going to read EON asap :)

kingmango
10-04-2006, 10:06 PM
Looking forward to congratulating the runners-up...
;)
gl, hf and :buttrock:

btw I've never read the book gonna buy it today. Five hundred pages someone said? Should have it read in a week and a half.

mummey
10-04-2006, 10:15 PM
As one of the contest judges, I can tell you from my perspective that this is an incredible opportunity for every contestant and very much related to working in the "real world".

My company, Persistence Of Vision - Previs, specializes in previsualization and conceptual "brain storming" for the film industry. The process of this challenge isn't too far off from what we do on an every day basis. We're handed a script and maybe, if we're lucky, a couple of storyboards. We have to take it from there. POV constructs entire animated previs sequences and if given enough time, we'll assemble the entire movie in animatic form.

Here's a link to some of our work. It should help you by providing some previs sequences you can look at.

http://www.persistenceofvision.com/?area=demo-reels&content=previs_sequence_samples

For those of you considering the trailer portion of this contest...I'll be watching you carefully.

I'm glad to hear this perspective from one of the people who will be judging this. This challenge _does_ appear to be closer to what artists would encounter on-the-job. Becuase of this, I look forward to reading the mindset that participants had while creating their submission.

Pinoy McGee
10-04-2006, 10:25 PM
So I'm checking out the grand prize for the trailer category. If one person wins...does he/she gets all the 4 seats of XSI and other "4x" items?

ArtisticVisions
10-04-2006, 10:39 PM
Where the heck have I been to miss this news? (actually, I've been ill for the past days)

I've never read Eon, but I really like the concept of this Challenge and I will definately be entering it :thumbsup: (though I do kinda miss the separation of 2D and 3D entries).

ekah
10-04-2006, 10:39 PM
I think it's a great challenge. I'm looking forward to seeing the entries.

Working within confines of limitations is a challenge, hence the name of the event. :)

Good luck to all the particpants.

salmonmoose
10-04-2006, 10:53 PM
So I'm checking out the grand prize for the trailer category. If one person wins...does he/she gets all the 4 seats of XSI and other "4x" items?

Yes.

Likewise, if a team of 16 wins, they still only get 4x items.

OmeN2501
10-04-2006, 11:12 PM
Lol People what are you crying about? Its a great and fresh idea, to give us something close to real job experience. We all can learn from professionals how this things are done in industry and benefit from it

If I find some time between jobs/family/freinds/girlfriend - I'm so in ;P

Moysh
10-05-2006, 12:12 AM
All I can say is "YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!"

woohoo! :bounce:

ThePriest
10-05-2006, 12:38 AM
That's a difficult and long book to read unless you're really up for it.

One that is also considered by some in the SciFi world to be quite un-filmable also,
heh, no wonder they came here for inspiration.

If it were my concept they sold to the Hollywood big shots and it became a movie, I'd want more than BOXX system.

Goodluck.

Tenacious
10-05-2006, 12:43 AM
I think that greg bear is about to see a dramatic rise in sales from all the people here running out to buy his book.

I think this is a good challenge, the fact that the author is judging is really cool. Sometimes it's really good to be restricted in terms of topic and what they can do, it really makes people think and push creative boundaries. That being said the topic is still amazingly broad, a 500 page book has gotta have a lot of different subject matter to depict. As to whether I'll enter I'm still undecided but I will go and get the book now.

Best of luck to everyone in the challenge.

Vizfizz
10-05-2006, 12:53 AM
That's a difficult and long book to read unless you're really up for it.

One that is also considered by some in the SciFi world to be quite un-filmable also,
heh, no wonder they came here for inspiration.

If it were my concept they sold to the Hollywood big shots and it became a movie, I'd want more than BOXX system.

Goodluck.

Artists maintain rights to their own work in this contest. Greg Bear wont be able to run off with your work and sell it to Hollywood. Even IF it were to ever develop into an actual film and IF your work is actually something that Greg Bear could potentially use to help pitch the film, I would say that you would stand a great chance of being contacted for either rights or potential employment. However, that's all depending on whether or not a studio would even pick up such a film for production anyway. Trust me.. there's enough public awareness through this board that will define and protect your work. Nobody is gonna run off with it.

tAstyBITs
10-05-2006, 01:03 AM
It's seems like this isn't really a contest. I'm getting the impression that this contest is being set up as a way to get artist to work for free to pre-vis and concept for a movie. If so it dosen't seem like it's legal to call it a contest.

I'm sorry to bring this up, but this looks really bad to me.

I've worked at a video game company for over 10 years and at one point we wanted people to be able to go to our web site and give suggestions. It sounded harmless but the idea was illegal unless we contracted each person that sent in an idea. So we never did it. It sounds like this 'contest' could have lots of legal problems as people may sue if their idea is used.

Again I don't mean to cause any problems with the contest but this is how I see it.

Vizfizz
10-05-2006, 01:32 AM
Copyright - Derivative Works
http://features.cgsociety.org/images/spacer.gif
Greg Bear has granted CGSociety permission to base this challenge on his novel, EON. As EON is published work we need to be very clear regarding how copyright works in this situation.

When you have finished your work will be yours - you hold the Copyright for it as a derivative work, inspired by EON, a novel by Greg Bear. You will be free to show your finished work anywhere you want as long as it is in a non-commercial context and you include in the credit these words “inspired by EON, a novel by Greg Bear”. You cannot make any claim or imply in nay way that you created the work for Greg Bear and must not allow your work to appear in any form under ‘EON’ or ‘Greg Bear’ imprimatur.

As a derivate work you can not use your work in any commercial manner without gaining written permission from Greg Bear.

The arrangment is reciprocal. Greg Bear does not have any claim to your work other than being the inspiration for it. Should it be used by Greg Bear or the publishers of EON they are required to seek your permission to use your work.

So in other words... both parties are protected.

There is nothing to indicate that Greg Bear intends to make a movie, but lets just say he does and you create something so incredible that it could help Greg actually pitch a movie. In order to use it, he must obtain your permission. Then a studio would have to actually pick up the film and obtain rights and so forth... your work is protected and if you created something soooo amazing that it influenced a possible "green light" I'm sure you'd be compensated.

crazybread
10-05-2006, 01:43 AM
Not too bad. Hello everyone, perhaps I'll give this a shot.

good luck to all.

Pinoy McGee
10-05-2006, 01:47 AM
It's seems like this isn't really a contest. I'm getting the impression that this contest is being set up as a way to get artist to work for free to pre-vis and concept for a movie. If so it dosen't seem like it legal to call it a contest.

But...nobody is forcing anybody to submit anything. Any exploiter can just browse all the galleries here and steal ideas and swipe designs.

As far as I know cgsociety inc. and participating artists have benefited from all those expose books and previous challenges. Why would this challenge denigrate the site's integrity just because it's based on the IP of a person? Would people still be turned-off if Peter Jackson or JK Rowling are the names attached to the contest?

vrf
10-05-2006, 02:03 AM
It's seems like this isn't really a contest. I'm getting the impression that this contest is being set up as a way to get artist to work for free to pre-vis and concept for a movie. If so it dosen't seem like it's legal to call it a contest.


But there isn't a movie being made. And the topic write-up is very clear about the artist's work being protected. Did you read any of it?

tAstyBITs
10-05-2006, 02:09 AM
So I can't sell the art that I enter into this contest with out written permmission, but I retain the rights to my work. This dosen't make sense how can it be like this, how is this contradicting concept be legal? Considering I'm doing my work for free I should have all the rights in the world to what I make. Now if I where making say a illustration of a already finnished and copywrited movie, then I don't have the writes to sell that illustration because of the copyrights of the character designs or what not that where already created in the movie. But you can't copywrite an idea. So if I create a intellectual property/concept that's used in the movie I would imagine I'd own the writes to it because I created it first.

Also if my work influences work in the movie, isn't that a grey area that can be subject to lawsuits?

Hey I really want to enter this but I want all rights to my work without reqiuring written permission for anything. Or I feel like I'm being scammed for free labor.

mummey
10-05-2006, 02:17 AM
So I can't sell the art that I enter into this contest with out written permmission, but I retain the rights to my work. This dosen't make sense how can it be like this, how is this contradicting concept be legal? Considering I'm doing my work for free I should have all the rights in the world to what I make. Now if I where making say a illustration of a already finnished and copywrited movie, then I don't have the writes to sell that illustration because of the copyrights of the character designs or what not that where already created in the movie. But you can't copywrite an idea. So if I create a intellectual property/concept that used in the movie I would imagine I'd own the writes to it because I created first.

Also if my work influences work in the movie, isn't that a grey area that can be subject to lawsuits?

Hey I really want to enter this but I want all rights to my work without reqiuring written permission for anything. Or I feel like I'm being scammed for free labor.

Well, the requirement for this contest is that submissions must be inspired by the Greg Bear work. If it wasn't inspired, then its not elgible.

Vizfizz's post made the conditions pretty clear: The work you submit to this challenge is considered "Inspired by Greb Bear". Lucky for us, Greg Bear has given permission for us to use the work for noncommercial purposes afterward.

To make it simple: No you can't sell it afterward, but it makes good demo-reel/portfolio material. It can also be submitted to shows, you just can't earn any money off of it.

vrf
10-05-2006, 02:19 AM
I'm sorry... but you lost me when you started talking about your "writes." :rolleyes:

No one is forcing you to enter. Don't like the rules... don't play the game.

Rebeccak
10-05-2006, 02:23 AM
The rules of the Challenge as stated on the Instructions (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/instructions.php) and Rules (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/rules.php) pages make it clear that artists are getting a fair shake here. But certainly no one is being forced to enter this Challenge. :)

From the Instructions page:
Copyright - Derivative Works
http://features.cgsociety.org/images/spacer.gif
Greg Bear has granted CGSociety permission to base this challenge on his novel, EON. As EON is published work we need to be very clear regarding how copyright works in this situation.

When you have finished your work will be yours - you hold the Copyright for it as a derivative work, inspired by EON, a novel by Greg Bear. You will be free to show your finished work anywhere you want as long as it is in a non-commercial context and you include in the credit these words “inspired by EON, a novel by Greg Bear”. You cannot make any claim or imply in nay way that you created the work for Greg Bear and must not allow your work to appear in any form under ‘EON’ or ‘Greg Bear’ imprimatur.

As a derivate work you can not use your work in any commercial manner without gaining written permission from Greg Bear.

The arrangment is reciprocal. Greg Bear does not have any claim to your work other than being the inspiration for it. Should it be used by Greg Bear or the publishers of EON they are required to seek your permission to use your work.
This seems very fair to me.

RockinAkin
10-05-2006, 02:24 AM
Hahaha... yesterday when the challenge was announed,
Eon's Amazon.com book sales rank was around #223,000.

Today its sales rank is #3,973.

:D

Vizfizz
10-05-2006, 02:36 AM
I need to make a correction. Here is the exact quote from the rules. I copy and pasted an earlier version....so just so we're all on the same sheet of music:

Copyright - Derivative Works

Greg Bear has granted CGSociety permission to base this challenge on his novel, EON. As EON is published work we need to be very clear regarding how copyright works in this situation.

When you have finished your work will be yours - you hold the Copyright for it as a derivative work, inspired by EON, a novel by Greg Bear. You will be free to show your finished work anywhere you want as long as it is in a non-commercial context and you include in the credit these words “inspired by EON, a novel by Greg Bear”. You cannot make any claim or imply in nay way that you created the work for Greg Bear and must not allow your work to appear in any form under ‘EON’ or ‘Greg Bear’ imprimatur.

As a derivate work you can not use your work in any commercial manner without gaining written permission from Greg Bear.

The arrangment is reciprocal. Greg Bear does not have any claim to your work other than being the inspiration for it. Should it be used by Greg Bear or the publishers of EON they are required to seek your permission to use your work.

Thing is tAstyBITs...EON and Greg's intellectual property are already copyrighted. Lets look at from another angle.

Star Trek and Star Wars are very popular franchises. People make fan art of those two shows/films all the time. You can create a unique work of art that is inspired by those franchises any time you wish...but if you paint a picture of Spock or Luke Skywalker you wouldn't be able to sell the rights or permissions to those characters to a movie studio or any other merchandizing machine. George Lucas owns the idea and "look" of Luke Skywalker... but George doesn't own your inspired individual painting. I believe you could sell your work in a one time, private, commission type arrangment...because you are selling your services as an artist to paint an inspired work, but you'd never be able to mass produce it without permission from the intellectual property owner. Attempting to do so would be a violation of copyright.

(Edit: Even a one time commission could prove to be a violation of copyright...especially if the commission was valued at a high price)

Greg Bear is granting permission to the artists of CGTalk to create individual works of art with his intellectual property. You can use that art to help you find a job, promote yourself, etc etc.. provided you give rightful credit back to Greg Bear as the inspiration of your work. Likewise, Greg Bear can't take your original work, despite it being inspired by his original intellectual property, and use it for his own gain. Your technique and artistic style of the inspired work is what is protected. Therefore...if that work proves to be so influential to any potential filmatic advancement, Greg Bear and the movie studios would have to gain permissions from you.

Since you are creating your work of art in a public forum.. you're protected even further because your entire creative process is being documented and witnessed.

ThePriest
10-05-2006, 02:38 AM
Hahaha... yesterday when the challenge was announed,
Eon's Amazon.com book sales rank was around #223,000.

Today its sales rank is #3,973.

:D

I feel dirty.

mummey
10-05-2006, 02:44 AM
I feel dirty.

I just purchased the only copy at the local Borders.

Vizfizz
10-05-2006, 02:51 AM
I feel dirty.

You shouldn't....everyone is being properly rewarded for their efforts.

The Artists obtain: A finished work of art, the potential to win an expensive prize, self promotional materials, status, and potentially many other future lucrative benefits like employment.

Greg Bear obtains: A boost for his book. The ability to see his ideas visualized...and who knows MAYBE inroads towards filmatic promotion for EON, if that's what he desires.

CGSociety benefits: By being able to publish your works in potential Expose type books. Increased web traffic which equates to more interested advertisers, etc etc...

All seems pretty fair to me.

salmonmoose
10-05-2006, 03:06 AM
So I can't sell the art that I enter into this contest with out written permmission, but I retain the rights to my work. This dosen't make sense how can it be like this, how is this contradicting concept be legal? Considering I'm doing my work for free I should have all the rights in the world to what I make. Now if I where making say a illustration of a already finnished and copywrited movie, then I don't have the writes to sell that illustration because of the copyrights of the character designs or what not that where already created in the movie. But you can't copywrite an idea. So if I create a intellectual property/concept that's used in the movie I would imagine I'd own the writes to it because I created it first.

Also if my work influences work in the movie, isn't that a grey area that can be subject to lawsuits?

Hey I really want to enter this but I want all rights to my work without reqiuring written permission for anything. Or I feel like I'm being scammed for free labor.

No you can not directly sell work from this competition; You may use works created for this competition for non commercial purposes so long as you note that it was inspired by the work of Greg Bear (and not created for Greg Bear). However you may personally contact Greg Bear and request permission to sell works. (He's a pretty good guy

This is a reciprocal arrangement. Whilst you may not sell works inspired by Greg Bear, should Greg Bear or the publishers of EON wish to use your work, for creation of a movie then they must also seek your permission.

tAstyBITs
10-05-2006, 03:21 AM
Then i guess I need to know the legal difference something that is fan art of Luke Skywalker and something that is influenced by Luke Skywalker art already created. In my mind if I draw a picture of someone with blonde hair that looks like my dad and call it Luke Skywalker, then I can't sell it, but if I call it Bob then I can. Now if I make art that looks exaclty like copywrited art/design (not words) then calling it Bob still makes it Fan Art. Its seems it's just the agreement that makes the diffrence but I don't think CGTalk can legally ask people to honor it because it may be illegal to begin with.

tAstyBITs
10-05-2006, 03:28 AM
You shouldn't....everyone is being properly rewarded for their efforts.

The Artists obtain: A finished work of art, the potential to win an expensive prize, self promotional materials, status, and potentially many other future lucrative benefits like employment.

Greg Bear obtains: A boost for his book. The ability to see his ideas visualized...and who knows MAYBE inroads towards filmatic promotion for EON, if that's what he desires.

CGSociety benefits: By being able to publish your works in potential Expose type books. Increased web traffic which equates to more interested advertisers, etc etc...

All seems pretty fair to me.

Only a few artists get a prize, then everybody else has to advertise EON, on their work. Most compaies hire people to come up with concepts and idea's for promotional work. Now really CGTalk is in a postion to get kick backs for getting these idea's for free. Really this seems like a scam. This works because you can't copywrite a idea so anybody can take all the ideas you want from this competition.

This is why i think it's illegal it's a way to get free idea's made for a potiential movie without having to hire other artist. It's not fair for a Challenge where people are doing it to share how they do things.

SquishMe
10-05-2006, 03:39 AM
Hahaha... yesterday when the challenge was announed,
Eon's Amazon.com book sales rank was around #223,000.

Today its sales rank is #3,973.

:D

Well that was expected :lightbulb

I really don't understand what people are whining about.
I don't care about giving my ideas away to Mr. Bear or anyone else. I am not planning to sell my work (not that it will be good enough anyway). I am just entering to have a laugh, make some friends, be part of a community, get criticism, have a solid goal to motivate me and hone my skills.
I know what I am getting into so I can't be exploited. :p
As for people who might have issues with the legalities... don't bloody enter this free competition!

SONIC-X
10-05-2006, 05:16 AM
Yeah, I,m doing this for the fun,meeting up with old friends ,commenting on other peoples work,getting crits from artists that knows more than me and just plain learning new things.

I love these challenges and wait for the next one to start.Its not about rights and money and nonsens like that ,I have a good paying job in another field.

So loose the politics and lets just have fun.

Vizfizz
10-05-2006, 05:34 AM
This Business of Art: by Diane Cochrane

In the United States, there is what we call "Fair Use". This is defined as:

"Fair use gives others the right to use copyrighted material without permission of the copyright owner for such purposes as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. It also allows the copying of a certain amount of the copyrighted image materlal. But, the law doesn't spell out exactly how much or what percentage of the whole work can be used."

Translation: You can use portions of an original copyright image to incorporate into a new original work, however, fair use may not cover you in all cases...especially when examining your intent for your original work. If your intent is to mass produce or directly sell your new original artwork and it contains obviously recognizable copyright imagery, you could be exposing yourself to copyright violation. In this particular contest, rights are granted to each party with certain conditions. Those conditions apply to both parties for their protection.

Then there is the issue of copyrighting an idea.

Can you copyright an idea? "...the answer is no. Ideas are not copyrightable - only the finished product."

Therefore, you could potentially create an image of a blonde haired person in a tunic yielding a glowing sword and not violate copyright laws. However, if the original copyright owner (George Lucas) felt your rendition is too similiar to his Luke Skywalker or possessed too much of resemblance, you could wind up in court. Thus, if you created an final work of art that was so critical to any potential future endevours by Greg Bear or a film studio they would have to obtain your permission for use. If they proceeded to use your image as the direct basis for say a new character in EON - THE FILM, you would have grounds to go to court. Arbitration would be required and a determination would be made to see if Greg Bear and said film studio violated your copyright and if so, you would have to be rightly compensated.

When does your copyright go into effect?

"Your work is automatically protected from the date of completition until the date of publication. Publication occurs when a work has been made public."

In this public forum, the moment you declared entrance into the competition and start posting artwork, you are protecting yourself.. its apart of the conditions of the rules and the agreements made between Greg Bear, CGTalk and yourself. Go to the rules and read and you'll find out exactly what permissions are being granted to each party.

Vizfizz
10-05-2006, 05:46 AM
As for people who might have issues with the legalities... don't bloody enter this free competition!

This about sums it up. CGTalk is taking all the necessary precautions concerning the legal issues of this competition. The existance of ideas out on the web are everywhere. tAstyBITs, I see that you entered the previous Challenge... you do realize that all of your ideas conveyed and expressed in that contest are just as much open to the public as anything you'll do in this competition? Who knows who looked at your past work and was inspired to create something similar to it. (Not to mention making money off of it)

You're right.. you can't copyright an idea...but you can copyright your work. If you are concerned with someone looking at your ideas and forming their own variation of it.. you shouldn't enter this contest or ever post your work in public again. I mean no disrespect with that statement. The visual nature of our medium and the type of work we do is constantly picked over and examined by other artists. Its sad, but true...however, every film that is made is compared to what came before it. Concepts and ideas altered...it happens all the time. Its only when direct copies of existing work are taken that we can actually have the grounds to take legal action. That is not happening here.

(Edit: What you're fighting is what you perceive as being an ethical dilemma. You feel it is wrong for anyone to potentially benefit from a public presentation of a work in progress...something that happens all the time, but you forget that none of this could be done without the permission of Greg Bear. If part of his terms are for the contestant to always post "Inspired by EON & Greg Bear", he has the right to do that. Since all parties are being upfront and forward with the rules, you can only agree or disagree with the said conditions. There is no evidence of any party attempting to withhold or deceive the contestant. Its up to you to determine whether or not it is something you can agree to or not...but its not illegal.)

Srek
10-05-2006, 06:24 AM
Then i guess I need to know the legal difference something that is fan art of Luke Skywalker and something that is influenced by Luke Skywalker art already created. In my mind if I draw a picture of someone with blonde hair that looks like my dad and call it Luke Skywalker, then I can't sell it, but if I call it Bob then I can. Now if I make art that looks exaclty like copywrited art/design (not words) then calling it Bob still makes it Fan Art.
In general as soon as you are using parts of or a strong resemblance to copyrighted work you are in for trouble. Your whole description makes it clear that in your example the goal is to get an advantage by making your work similar to copyrighted artwork. Prohibiting this is the main reason for the existence of copyrights.

I think the reciprocal rights granted for challenge entries are extremely fair.

Cheers
Björn

MarkSnoswell
10-05-2006, 07:03 AM
Our description of Derivative works is a summary of how international copyright is defined and implimented. It's not something we made up just for this challenge.

Copyright - Derivative Works

Greg Bear has granted CGSociety permission to base this challenge on his novel, EON. As EON is published work we need to be very clear regarding how copyright works in this situation.

When you have finished your work will be yours - you hold the Copyright for it as a derivative work, inspired by EON, a novel by Greg Bear. You will be free to show your finished work anywhere you want as long as it is in a non-commercial context and you include in the credit these words “inspired by EON, a novel by Greg Bear”. You cannot make any claim or imply in nay way that you created the work for Greg Bear and must not allow your work to appear in any form under ‘EON’ or ‘Greg Bear’ imprimatur.

As a derivate work you can not use your work in any commercial manner without gaining written permission from Greg Bear.

The arrangment is reciprocal. Greg Bear does not have any claim to your work other than being the inspiration for it. Should it be used by Greg Bear or the publishers of EON they are required to seek your permission to use your work.


In no way is the challenge designed to generate art work for Greg Bear or anyone other than yourself -- the entrant. If your work does in some way atract commercial interest then that is great -- you just need to be aware of the way derivative works are defined and work.

xstijn
10-05-2006, 07:17 AM
Even though it's a nice topic, i've never read EON and i find the topic to be a bit limited concerned freedom. I know you can do a lot of things with this topic but it has to have something in common with EON, compared to the previous challenges i think this one is a bit more limited. Still i'm participating, but i hope i can come up with a good idea that also has something in common with EON.

tAstyBITs
10-05-2006, 07:17 AM
Hey thanks for taking the time to address my concerns. But this is where I see things as different, George Lucas has finnished visual art and product. I can look Lucas art and see if I've created something that owned by Lucas, this book by said writer dosen't have established visual art nothing that said writer can claim as copywritable. Its just a book no images though I've only seen the cover and never heard about it until today. People are creating intelectual properties for any future movies for free by entering this contest. You ask them to give up commerical rights to avoid any lawsuits. The only reason you'd ask people to do that is to get free work to help develop proporties for a possible movie. Since you can just take bits and pieces of people orignal art here and change them enough to avoid lawsuits, said production will never have to ask for permission. I feel the 'intent' of this challege is save a pre production studio hundreds of thousands of dollars by not having to hire artist.

The word 'intent' is key here, what is the intent on asking people to give up commerical rights. I feel CGTalk is entering a grey area of the law. Why should artist give up their rights for this challenge, they haven't had to in the past. Now if this was a Lucas Fan Art challenge you wouldn't even have to ask people to give up their commercial rights because as they would have ever had them to begin with. But for this challengs it's not the case. Your asking them to give up commercial rights for what intent? Answering that question is what scares me. Pretty soon every production studio will start a forum and have challenges, think about it that way, this can't be legal. I love this web site but I'm really floored in astonishment on whats going on.

Srek
10-05-2006, 07:23 AM
The only reason you'd ask people to do that is to get free work to help develop proporties for a possible movie.
This sounds a bit paranoid to me. Do you realy think CGSociety is nothing but an ideas and artwork harvester for movie companies?

Cheers
Björn

tAstyBITs
10-05-2006, 07:48 AM
This sounds a bit paranoid to me. Do you realy think CGSociety is nothing but an ideas and artwork harvester for movie companies?

Cheers
Björn


I can only guess as to why CGTalk asks people to give up commerical right for art posted publicly for a art compitition. I hope for CGTalk that's its legal.

Personally if I'm going to waist my personal time making somthing I want to be able to own it and sell it.

Srek
10-05-2006, 07:58 AM
I can only guess as to why CGTalk asks people to give up commerical right for art posted publicly for a art compitition.
The rules cover this rather good imo, commercial rights are not given up by either side. As it is proper any commercial use from either side will need a seperate agreement.
I simply can't see your problem with this.

Cheers
Björn

storyForge
10-05-2006, 08:00 AM
Hey All! I found out the contest was going on last night, ran out and picked up a copy of Eon, finished it today (roughly 24 hours after I found out about it). I have to say thanks to Greg Bear for writing it, as it was an intellectually stimulating and overall entertaining work of fiction. SO even if I wasn't competing in the contest, I feel as if I've found a new author to read, which is always a +.

Interesting format thats been picked out for the contest as well, with the new addition of film trailer. I really think its an inspired move on the part of cgs.

As far as legal bindings and not being able to offer this work for sale, I feel that its a contest, the work is made for the contest. We are still able to use it in a noncommercial sense, so it may be included in any portfolio we wish to offer up.

SOOOO, good luck to all entries, I hope to see some epic artwork come from the contest!

Pyke
10-05-2006, 08:49 AM
Personally if I'm going to waist my personal time making somthing I want to be able to own it and sell it.

Then dont.

Honestly, if you dont want to enter into this contest, then dont enter the contest. If you are that afraid that this is a huge conspiracy by CGTalk and Greg Bear to 'steal' your 'intellectual property'-then by all means-do not enter. Nobody is infringing on your rights here.

I find it interesting that in the previous contest, 'The Journey Begins', the major complaint after judging, was that the topic was to broad, and allowed for to much interpretation. Here we have people complaining about the opposite.

These challenges are supposed to do that-challenge. This is providing as realisitic 'studio experience' as possible-where you will be working to flesh out someone elses vision. I applaud Ballistic Media for pushing the boundries of the challenge yet again.

If you feel this is to constricted, and wish to (in your personal time) create your own 3d images, depiciting your own fictional characters or worlds, then do so.

To me all of this seems like petty playground banter.

Abaddon
10-05-2006, 09:18 AM
Initially I was wondering why people were so concerned, but I do understand where TastyBITS is coming from, both ethically and legally. Especially after reading on Greg's news section on his site how a few months ago they were try to get one of his other books onto TV/film. Difference in 'concept design' caused the project to go no further...

But I always curse others for uninformed assumptions so I'll not go there myself. I am not going to concern myself with these issues for now, and get into the creativity and community fun. :thumbsup:

That said, if Eon gets turned into a movie in the next few years as a result of this increase in interest, sales, and concept designs, I'll merrily join the CG lynch mob. :twisted:

GL to all! :bounce:

tAstyBITs
10-05-2006, 10:05 AM
The rules cover this rather good imo, commercial rights are not given up by either side. As it is proper any commercial use from either side will need a seperate agreement.
I simply can't see your problem with this.

Cheers
Björn

Requiring written permission from the author means the artist has given up commercial rights no matter how you word it. Now if you tell me that 'he's a nice guy', then why not just give the artists rights to sell the work they make for this challenge without written permission?

JamesMK
10-05-2006, 10:16 AM
Requiring written permission from the author means the artist has given up commercial rights no matter how you word it. Now if you tell me that 'he's a nice guy', then why not just give the artists rights to sell the work they make for this challenge without written permission?
Why not simply skip this challenge entirely? If you don't like it, don't be a part of it.

It's really that simple.



.

AnimZiggy
10-05-2006, 10:20 AM
guys really this is getting out of hand! If you don't like the challenge don't take part and if you don't trust CGTalk don't be a member either.

Srek
10-05-2006, 10:22 AM
Requiring written permission from the author means the artist has given up commercial rights no matter how you word it. Now if you tell me that 'he's a nice guy', then why not just give the artists rights to sell the work they make for this challenge without written permission?
The very definition of the challenge is that your contribution must be based on the given artwork (a book in this case). You don't want to give up commercial rights on artwork you created based on the artwork of another artist, but expect that same artist to give up his rights in return?
Are we living on the same planet?

Cheers
Björn

Pyke
10-05-2006, 10:22 AM
Now if you tell me that 'he's a nice guy', then why not just give the artists rights to sell the work they make for this challenge without written permission?

So you are saying that he (Greg Bear) must give up the rights to Eon so that a separate company (Ballistic Media) that has no 'official' link to the Greg Bear name, other than this challenge, can host a contest whereby he is ALLOWING 'us' (the artists) to use HIS intellectual property in creating the artwork?

Of course... :rolleyes:

Squash-n-Stretch
10-05-2006, 10:52 AM
Ignore him. There's no point in arguing with people who think they understand intellectual property law when they actually don't...there's no winning there. Let him go and join deviantArt if he is that deluded about intellectual property law (he'd make a great mod over there).

I went scouring for this book but found nothing *sob* I went to all the second hand book shops and everything; there simply isn't a copy for sale in Dublin. So I bought one for 1c from Amazon...and the shipping is $9.98 so it's not too bad really. Just have to wait for it to arrive...which could be a substantial amount of time. :rolleyes::shrug:

AnimZiggy
10-05-2006, 11:11 AM
andrea i'm in dublin at the moment! freelancing and not sure where are the bookstores anyway :P
places like waterstones dont have it u reckon?

Jaspar
10-05-2006, 11:19 AM
I went to the Waterstones here in Manchester, which is a pretty huge one, and they only had one copy.

AnimZiggy
10-05-2006, 11:22 AM
thanks jesper. i guess i can always get it next week when back in london...

pearson
10-05-2006, 11:49 AM
I can only guess as to why CGTalk asks people to give up commerical right for art posted publicly for a art compitition. I hope for CGTalk that's its legal.

Personally if I'm going to waist my personal time making somthing I want to be able to own it and sell it.No one is asking you to give up the commercial rights, because you don't have them to give.

The point that you are missing is that while the "idea" can't be copyrighted, the "description" can be. So the image of Luke Skywalker was already protected even before the first picture was painted of him.

In this case, there may be no prior visual depictions of the characters and events described in the book. However, they are still copyrighted. You cannot legally make an image based on the descriptions in the book and then sell it. They are copyrighted already.

I don't know if making an image based on the book for a challenge would fall under educational fair use even without Mr. Bear's consent, but in no circumstances could you claim commercial rights to your derivative work.

buloght
10-05-2006, 11:55 AM
I think I'll give this challenge a try afterall, it be good to try somethin' different and outside of my interests. It might be a very rewarding experience. So yeah, I'll provide this community with the worst entry yet :bounce:

Ons suid afrikaners moet ons staal wys mense.

([edit] thanks for adding PNG)

w1as
10-05-2006, 12:16 PM
So you are saying that he (Greg Bear) must give up the rights to Eon so that a separate company (Ballistic Media) that has no 'official' link to the Greg Bear name, other than this challenge, can host a contest whereby he is ALLOWING 'us' (the artists) to use HIS intellectual property in creating the artwork?

Of course... :rolleyes:


:bounce: :buttrock: :thumbsup: :applause: :buttrock: :thumbsup: :applause: :bounce:

mosconariz
10-05-2006, 03:53 PM
What I loved about past challenges was the freedom to artistically represent the broad theme exposed.

What I love about this challenge is the animated scene and the trailer... submitting video rocks!

BC1967
10-05-2006, 04:12 PM
This is an amazing opportunity! If ever there was a novel written cinematically, this is it!
I've read this book ( and the sequel ) 2 times, and on every page is another great scene. It really reads as a movie, Mr. Bear's prose is that discriptive.
I'll be creating concept art that will be seen and judged by the man whose vision inspired it.
How often do I get that chance?

Neubius
10-05-2006, 04:24 PM
sounds scary, got to wait for the book to turn up,

but i reckon im in.

silvia
10-05-2006, 04:58 PM
Oh crap, last night I looked for the book everywhere in the house and couldn't find it! I must have thrown it away when remodeling the office... I guess I will have to go by memory... So much for having an advantage from having read the book...:scream:

And I am really baffled by all this noise about intellectual properties. I don't remember anybody from CGSociety pointing a gun at me telling me to participate or else... If anything in the contest makes you uncomfortable, it's really simple, don't do it! I think the people of CGSociety go through enough effort to organize these challenges with this kind of prizes without having to be submerged by idle complaints about each one.

vander
10-05-2006, 05:00 PM
What is EON? That book was never published in portuguese. The closest of the portuguese is a version in spanish, used, that is long 8 weeks to arrive in Brazil. Challenge only for americans and science fiction fans that already read that book of 512 pages.

Hug. To the next challenge, and forward.

BrokenCompass
10-05-2006, 09:32 PM
I have become a little irrated by all the nay-saying that keeps cropping up.

A lot of people in the past have complained that there is no real objective to previous challenges, and now people are saying it is too specific.

Surely it is good to have variety, because this makes it more of a CHALLENGE.

I have gone out and bought the book, and although I don't think I could achieve great results for this style, it is a amazing idea for a challenge, and gives a real purpose.

I hope all the negativety doesn't prevent future interesting challenges

Good on the moderators for all their hard work:thumbsup:

tAstyBITs
10-05-2006, 10:20 PM
e pThis is how I see things, I could be wrong.

CGTalk is providing a service to the author and to a pre productions studio by hosting this competition. I would like a clear definition of this service as it will be used to understand the intent of this competition. I'd like discosure of any monetary busisness practice regarding this relationship between the competions host and the reasons for picking the book if possible. (I don't know if CGTalk is a non profit web site).

Fan Art is illegal, check winki pedia, the agreement not to use all said art created for this competion for non commerical purpose isn't valid as said benifiting companys can easily abuse the "fair use" of created art for pre production work on intelecutal properties created hence forth the competion. Requireing proof of intent is the only way to show CGTalk and others are not abusing "fair use" agreements.

Another way to look at it, this might make more sense,
Longstanding online art competition for professionals and amateurs becomes a potentially marketable entity where the competition's art is turned into a free IP development resource. The subject of the competition used to be open ended now it's specific to a published book. The author granting derivative copyright permission to the competitors aquires free IP development resources for the book as it will be used to promote a possible movie deals as indicated in the entry form of the competition. This may be unethical bussniness practice as the derivative copywrites of the contestant's art can be exploited under "fair use" by the participating movie pre production studio also envolved in the art competition for IP development. CGSociety puts the competition in a position where a production studio or author may find the competition valuable and may be willing to pay money to get their Intelectual Property setup as the competition's subject. The art the competitors provide is provided for free but since the art is in a public domain it's easly accessable for anybody and the particapating production studio and author can view it at any time for any length of time to help them develope the look of the book which has yet to be developed.

It's a cleaver way to exploit artists in this new digital age of art.

That is the end of my statement and it is my iterpitation of the law and not necessary the law.

I'd like to state that CGTalk is a great community and has always in the past to the best of my knowlege provided artists with tremendous opportunitys to share and grow. The positive influence of CGTalk is to great to measure and I hope to prevent any future problems by posting my interpretation of legal issuses that may occure.

UrbanFuturistic
10-05-2006, 10:55 PM
This is how I see things, I could be wrong.

CGTalk is providing a service to the author and to a pre productions studio by hosting this competition.Really? You have proof of this? I didn't think so.

You've already demonstrated a clearly shaky grasp of IP law and by and large you are:

1) making a lot of clearly unfounded assumptions

2) not listening anyone

Please, please,

please, please, please,

please, please, please, please, please shut up. You're ruining the atmosphere of this thread.

UrbanFuturistic
10-05-2006, 11:01 PM
As an asides, I feel very excluded from this competition because although I have the book, and I've already read Eternity so I have some ideas, I suck.

I think this challenge thing should be more open so the truly talentless can enter and not just those who can actually draw and stuff, y'know, like the Turner Prize. It's far too restrictive this way.

silvia
10-05-2006, 11:21 PM
As an asides, I feel very excluded from this competition because although I have the book, and I've already read Eternity so I have some ideas, I suck.

I think this challenge thing should be more open so the truly talentless can enter and not just those who can actually draw and stuff, y'know, like the Turner Prize. It's far too restrictive this way.

Not sure if this was a joke or not, but what do you mean that the challenge should be open to let the "talentless who can't draw and stuff" participate? How is this challenge different from all the previous ones? I thought a concept sketch was always a milestone.

And for the talentless, there are many of us out there, but we can still enter if we want to, and keep quietly in the background... :thumbsup:

Mordalles
10-05-2006, 11:24 PM
Really? You have proof of this? I didn't think so.


well, sales have gone up considerably! so you think wrong. i would also be "kind enough" to lend my novel to such a competition! thats if i had one! haha.

chingwa
10-06-2006, 03:11 AM
The last challange was the first I ever entered, but I didn't even know about it till the last 2 weeks. Just couldn't pull off a competent illustration in that time frame. This time though I'll be better prepared!

I don't normally read SciFi, but I just picked up the book this afternoon. I'm on chapter 7... and can feel my mind simultaneously expanding and shrinking at the same time. wow. :D

DoctorMonkeyFist
10-06-2006, 04:33 AM
I for one enjoy some conflict in a thread, especially when people are really ignorant and vocal or get caught ripping stuff off. It's darn entertaining. Also, I think this challenge is prejudice against illiterate CG artists. LoL...I'm looking forward to seeing all the terrific entries.

pearson
10-06-2006, 05:12 AM
tAstyBITs, you keep changing your argument, so discussing this further is pointless.

However, I would like to point out that, for those who aren't comfortable with this challenge, or for some reason can't participate, there is another challenge currently running. It's open to anyone, has no restrictive rules to limit your creativity, and you can own all the rights to your work. It also has no time limit.

The grand prize is a shiny "CG Choice" award to be displayed proudly under your avatar. Other prizes include being plugged on the front page and earning "stars" for your thread.

To enter please post your work in the appropriate forum here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=3). Best of luck to everyone!

:deal: :thumbsup:

nomorehere
10-06-2006, 05:14 AM
Yay. Finally a real excuse to procrastinate from end-of-year exams. Wonderfully timed, not only can I be distracted by bitch-fighting over copyright, but I get an excuse to read a scifi novel which is much more interesting then pouring over legal documents of WTO and World Bank trying to decide if one or the other is even remotely "democratic".

I think the concept is a great one. Producing "real-world" concept art isn't something I've ever had the opportunity to do... Although it does look suspiciously like homework... Ugh. No, ignoring that thought. I've started reading 'Eon', and I'm not sure whoes choice it was... but it was a good one.

Anyway, just wanted to go yippee! I've had too much sugar and coffee and excitement for one day. Better go finish reading those Articles of Agreement to calm me down a little.

Nazirull
10-06-2006, 05:16 AM
The theme was very close to what ive predicted.....after hints and hints form Leigh...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=3885294&postcount=128

crazy3dman
10-06-2006, 07:36 AM
Kudos to CGSociety for what looks to be another great challenge. Obviously, a lot of work goes into these things.

Hey kids, variety is the spice of life.

Pyke
10-06-2006, 10:00 AM
However, I would like to point out that, for those who aren't comfortable with this challenge, or for some reason can't participate, there is another challenge currently running. It's open to anyone, has no restrictive rules to limit your creativity, and you can own all the rights to your work. It also has no time limit.

The grand prize is a shiny "CG Choice" award to be displayed proudly under your avatar. Other prizes include being plugged on the front page and earning "stars" for your thread.

To enter please post your work in the appropriate forum here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=3). Best of luck to everyone!

:deal: :thumbsup:

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Mordalles
10-06-2006, 10:24 AM
tAstyBITs, you keep changing your argument, so discussing this further is pointless.

However, I would like to point out that, for those who aren't comfortable with this challenge, or for some reason can't participate, there is another challenge currently running. It's open to anyone, has no restrictive rules to limit your creativity, and you can own all the rights to your work. It also has no time limit.

The grand prize is a shiny "CG Choice" award to be displayed proudly under your avatar. Other prizes include being plugged on the front page and earning "stars" for your thread.

To enter please post your work in the appropriate forum here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=3). Best of luck to everyone!

:deal: :thumbsup:

:sad: your obviously missing the whole point of the cgtalk challenge. and please don't tell other people to stop discussing something because you decide so and you want to suck up the majority of members by being on their side. :thumbsup:

Jaspar
10-06-2006, 11:52 AM
Sorry, just changing the subject totally...

Question to anyone that has read the book:

I'm just reading EON, and am having trouble imagining the chambers from the descriptions. It might be that I've missed some important piece of description, but for the life of me I can't figure out where the Plasma tubes, and the singularity are in relation to each other. When they first visit the singularity they apparently go into a vacuum, but then step out onto scaffolding mounted on the side of the cap. There's mention of the singlarity running straight through between the chambers, and the plasma being capped at the end of each chamber, in part to maintain the atmospheric pressure. Where is the plasma's bulb maintaing pressure from if all these other tunnels run though between the chambers? They also mention getting a great view of the plasma tube, but I don't get where it is in relation to the scaffold at the center of rotation?

Feel free to tell me I'm just being dense, and should re-read from the beginning! :shrug:

SquishMe
10-06-2006, 12:52 PM
Sorry, just changing the subject totally...

Question to anyone that has read the book:

I'm just reading EON, and am having trouble imagining the chambers from the descriptions. It might be that I've missed some important piece of description, but for the life of me I can't figure out where the Plasma tubes, and the singularity are in relation to each other. When they first visit the singularity they apparently go into a vacuum, but then step out onto scaffolding mounted on the side of the cap. There's mention of the singlarity running straight through between the chambers, and the plasma being capped at the end of each chamber, in part to maintain the atmospheric pressure. Where is the plasma's bulb maintaing pressure from if all these other tunnels run though between the chambers? They also mention getting a great view of the plasma tube, but I don't get where it is in relation to the scaffold at the center of rotation?

Feel free to tell me I'm just being dense, and should re-read from the beginning! :shrug:

I have to say that I am having exactly the same trouble. I am about a quarter of the way through, but I am getting depressed that I just can't seem to visualise much of it, that I may have to go back to the begininng and read it all again. I think of myself as a very visual person and I don't usually have such a problem. I am enjoying the book thoroughly but I really think the descriptive/expositional passages are too weak, whereas the parts about science, politics and relationships are very strong. It's a shame since this challenge is relying on the descriptions.
As a comparison, "Rendezvous with Rama" was very easy to visualise (although there was no story at all).
Anyway, just my humble opinion. :D

rkeith0275
10-06-2006, 03:21 PM
The word in the title says it all, this is a challenge, the rules may be different, but in the end it is up to us to meet the challenge. Whether you read the book or not, or just read the tidbits given here come up with an idea and go with it. You never know what you actually may do and what the judges may vote for unless you do it. This also seems to be more of a "real-life" challenge if you are planning on getting in the industry. I somehow believe that when a client comes and asks you to do something, for the most part they give pretty specific instructions and usually not 3 months to get it done.

I have in the past used the excuse that I did not have enough time to read because of work and kids and home maintenance and all that stuff and the truth is all I had to do was make time. I, in essence, paid myself first. Now with this challenge I will have to "pay" myself more time to read it for the next week but that is OK, if it allows me to escape to a different world for those hours then it is worth it. Obviously this is a global competition and if the book is not in your language then you are at a disadvantage, but they have given some inspirational images adn brief excerpts to work with which should be enough. Hey if you join the competition to have fun with and see what happens instead of stressing about winning you may surprise yourself. I know the more stressed I am the less creative I am.

Have fun with this and good luck to all, I look forward to seeing everyones entries and will be here daily looking at everyones progress.

Enjoy.

Roald

"If life was fair, Elvis would be alive and all the impersonators would be dead."

crazy3dman
10-06-2006, 03:38 PM
The word in the title says it all, this is a challenge, the rules may be different, but in the end it is up to us to meet the challenge. Whether you read the book or not, or just read the tidbits given here come up with an idea and go with it. You never know what you actually may do and what the judges may vote for unless you do it. This also seems to be more of a "real-life" challenge if you are planning on getting in the industry. I somehow believe that when a client comes and asks you to do something, for the most part they give pretty specific instructions and usually not 3 months to get it done.

I have in the past used the excuse that I did not have enough time to read because of work and kids and home maintenance and all that stuff and the truth is all I had to do was make time. I, in essence, paid myself first. Now with this challenge I will have to "pay" myself more time to read it for the next week but that is OK, if it allows me to escape to a different world for those hours then it is worth it. Obviously this is a global competition and if the book is not in your language then you are at a disadvantage, but they have given some inspirational images adn brief excerpts to work with which should be enough. Hey if you join the competition to have fun with and see what happens instead of stressing about winning you may surprise yourself. I know the more stressed I am the less creative I am.

Have fun with this and good luck to all, I look forward to seeing everyones entries and will be here daily looking at everyones progress.

Enjoy.

Roald

"If life was fair, Elvis would be alive and all the impersonators would be dead."

Yay! A voice of reason and inspiration! Very well said.

AnimZiggy
10-06-2006, 03:39 PM
Yay! A voice of reason and inspiration! Very well said.

got to quote the quote!

rkeith0275
10-06-2006, 03:54 PM
Here is who said the quote, sorry....or shall I say DOH (yes, "Homer" ...Simpson that is)

"If life was fair, Elvis would be alive and all the impersonators would be dead."

-Johnny Carson

coCoKNIght
10-06-2006, 04:44 PM
Typical!

Just when I have no internet connection for one week, the challenge is announced... grumble grumble

Meshosh
10-06-2006, 07:36 PM
Please everyone, undestand that I am NOT bashing CGTalk at all here, but I just didn´t like this theme as much as the others... I don´t like the fact that it´s based on a book thats not avaliable on all languages, in fact, I don´t like that it´s based on a book at all, even if it was the lord of the rings, or harry potter, that we can find everywhere...

What I like the most about the past challenges is the raw creativity of the people involved, and how the artists can come up with so many great ideas and universes on the same theme... For me, this is the better part. But when you limit the creativity by using one common universe for everyone, it might force people to recycle ideas over and over again... having many people working with the same characters, places and so on...

I disagree with this illustration category, merging 2d and 3d... as for me they´re two different techniques, and shoud be treated as such. This is a proffessional forum after all, and as proffessionals, people tend to get more and more specialised on what they do and the technique they are good at, so it makes no sense to put 2 different artists on the same category... I know that the end result matters more than the tools involved, but this is a WIP contest, and I am shure that the way people do their work matters to the judges (well... at least it should).

I know people can say that I don´t have to enter this challenge if I don´t like it... and they are right, no one is forcing me enter anything, as a matter of fact, I´ve never entered any other challenge before, But I´ve aways watched them closely. I can have fun just watching, right?

anostudio
10-06-2006, 09:04 PM
Please everyone, undestand that I am NOT bashing CGTalk at all here, but I just didn´t like this theme as much as the others... I don´t like the fact that it´s based on a book thats not avaliable on all languages, in fact, I don´t like that it´s based on a book at all, even if it was the lord of the rings, or harry potter, that we can find everywhere...

What I like the most about the past challenges is the raw creativity of the people involved, and how the artists can come up with so many great ideas and universes on the same theme... For me, this is the better part. But when you limit the creativity by using one common universe for everyone, it might force people to recycle ideas over and over again... having many people working with the same characters, places and so on...

I disagree with this illustration category, merging 2d and 3d... as for me they´re two different techniques, and shoud be treated as such. This is a proffessional forum after all, and as proffessionals, people tend to get more and more specialised on what they do and the technique they are good at, so it makes no sense to put 2 different artists on the same category... I know that the end result matters more than the tools involved, but this is a WIP contest, and I am shure that the way people do their work matters to the judges (well... at least it should).

I know people can say that I don´t have to enter this challenge if I don´t like it... and they are right, no one is forcing me enter anything, as a matter of fact, I´ve never entered any other challenge before, But I´ve aways watched them closely. I can have fun just watching, right?


:thumbsup::buttrock: agree with you and good luck everyone

Epopisces
10-07-2006, 01:47 AM
Well, I lucked out. I haven't been checking CGtalk very much lately, but I randomy checked it today and hooray! A new challenge. Glad I caught it so early, here's hoping I can finish this time. :thumbsup: I haven't read the book, but I like the idea behind this challenge. Good luck to all who decide to enter!

Luks
10-07-2006, 01:52 AM
I hope's this contest gonna have wonderful works.

Good luck for everbody. :buttrock: :thumbsup:

kingfish3d
10-07-2006, 05:50 AM
hi there,

i really would like to participace , i`ve the book but will not have enought time to read it, my english reading is really slow,

i `m really intersted to create my picture bhased on the fourth chamber, any action in this chamber or , the arrival of any character there....,
is there somebody who can indicate me witch chapter of the boook i`ve to concentrate for get a deep description of this chamber or any action append there???

thank a lot

selenaart
10-07-2006, 05:12 PM
It mind sound like a stupid question but...
I was reading the inspiratin page, and the description of the third chamber not realy clear for me. Could somebody please help me to understand the exact meaning of the phrase:
Taking advantage of the upward slope of the floor...

Is it mean that the biger buildings were standing on the hills of the valley(meaning they were standing higher then those that were hanging on the cables)?
...or the chamber had couple of levels of hanging buildings, and on the upper level(right on those hanging buildings) they had build the biger structures that were ten kilometers long?

The reason I'm asking it's becouse I already did one mistake in my concept and don't want to do that again.

lukep
10-07-2006, 06:14 PM
Sorry, just changing the subject totally...

Question to anyone that has read the book:

I'm just reading EON, and am having trouble imagining the chambers from the descriptions. It might be that I've missed some important piece of description, but for the life of me I can't figure out where the Plasma tubes, and the singularity are in relation to each other. When they first visit the singularity they apparently go into a vacuum, but then step out onto scaffolding mounted on the side of the cap. There's mention of the singlarity running straight through between the chambers, and the plasma being capped at the end of each chamber, in part to maintain the atmospheric pressure. Where is the plasma's bulb maintaing pressure from if all these other tunnels run though between the chambers? They also mention getting a great view of the plasma tube, but I don't get where it is in relation to the scaffold at the center of rotation?

Feel free to tell me I'm just being dense, and should re-read from the beginning! :shrug:

I must say that while i find the idea of starting from a book a very good one, i'm pretty baffled that Greg Bear's Eon was chosen. In the same hard science sub-genre there is plenty of authors with very good descriptive texts, like I.M. Banks, Robinson, Brin, Hamilton, Simmons and many others. Greg Bear is a writer whose work i like, but his descriptions are rather shaky, i think.

That said, there is plenty of nice possibilities in this book.

Nazirull
10-07-2006, 06:27 PM
Sorry, just changing the subject totally...

Question to anyone that has read the book:

I'm just reading EON, and am having trouble imagining the chambers from the descriptions. It might be that I've missed some important piece of description, but for the life of me I can't figure out where the Plasma tubes, and the singularity are in relation to each other. When they first visit the singularity they apparently go into a vacuum, but then step out onto scaffolding mounted on the side of the cap. There's mention of the singlarity running straight through between the chambers, and the plasma being capped at the end of each chamber, in part to maintain the atmospheric pressure. Where is the plasma's bulb maintaing pressure from if all these other tunnels run though between the chambers? They also mention getting a great view of the plasma tube, but I don't get where it is in relation to the scaffold at the center of rotation?

Feel free to tell me I'm just being dense, and should re-read from the beginning! :shrug:

Im with you! I was reading the Insipration section under Alexanderia. I couldnt really sketch out the physical form of it. But as i read, some images pops up in my mind and that is the path that i think i'll follow.

I think the blur description of things gives us some freedom to come up with our own interpretation, similar to what rkeith0275 has said above.

My take on this is like im getting a job like LOTR, and im interpreting it, or more like filling in the blanks in the descriptions of things. That what Peter Jackson did with the Tolkien novels.

Great to be here tho!:thumbsup:

ChewyPixels
10-07-2006, 06:31 PM
Sorry, just changing the subject totally...

Question to anyone that has read the book:

I'm just reading EON, and am having trouble imagining the chambers from the descriptions. It might be that I've missed some important piece of description, but for the life of me I can't figure out where the Plasma tubes, and the singularity are in relation to each other. When they first visit the singularity they apparently go into a vacuum, but then step out onto scaffolding mounted on the side of the cap. There's mention of the singlarity running straight through between the chambers, and the plasma being capped at the end of each chamber, in part to maintain the atmospheric pressure. Where is the plasma's bulb maintaing pressure from if all these other tunnels run though between the chambers? They also mention getting a great view of the plasma tube, but I don't get where it is in relation to the scaffold at the center of rotation?

Feel free to tell me I'm just being dense, and should re-read from the beginning! :shrug:

You know, I think a lot of people are having the same problem, as SquishMe seems to have. Well, I'm just as puzzled. When I read your post, I thought, "Great, I guess I'm not the only one." When I first read about the plasma tube, my impression was that it ran through the center of the chambers, along the axis. As soon as I got to reading about the singularity (and its mentioned MANY times later), I became confused. Now it seems, and anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, that it's the singularity that runs through the center/axis. With that in mind, where does the plasma tube run in relation to the singularity? Is it off to the side of it, so to speak? Or, does the singularity exist within the plasma tube? Someone, anyone, please clear things up for us lost souls!

I'm a bit over half-way through the book and I'm still clueless. :argh:

Jaspar
10-07-2006, 06:52 PM
Puzzled people unite!

Hope Greg Bear signs up to the forum and enlightens us!

fgdf
10-07-2006, 07:37 PM
I'm reading the book atm - and I think this whole idea of such type of challenge is fantastic - At first i thought we just need to visualize some building etc but I think it's now something more than just a plain topic - We are to figure out the one for ourselfes. And it's just so much more challenging now ;)
.... back to the book

naetronic
10-08-2006, 01:10 AM
Thanks for the spoiler Eek. I hope to see some great work good luck to everyone!
This is my first challenge so wish me luck too.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=414509

piccolabella
10-08-2006, 03:12 AM
kingfish3d: there is a small description of chamber 4 starting on page 57, but nothing more really than the description on the inspirations page.

varunbondwal
10-08-2006, 01:09 PM
i've been waiting five months for a challenge but still i cant enter coz of the following reason....

The chambers' descriptions leave a lot to the imagination, and the cruel fact is that the works will be judged by the author..now who knows how he had visualized them... even if we made an astounding image/trailer...it may not be similar to the one he had thought of

Glosep
10-08-2006, 01:42 PM
Yeah! finally another challenge. The story sounds great.

Nazirull
10-08-2006, 03:57 PM
i've been waiting five months for a challenge but still i cant enter coz of the following reason....

The chambers' descriptions leave a lot to the imagination, and the cruel fact is that the works will be judged by the author..now who knows how he had visualized them... even if we made an astounding image/trailer...it may not be similar to the one he had thought of

This is not a contest of reading mr. Bear's mind....:)

Im sure they have line up criterias on judging.

ghZaaaRK
10-09-2006, 01:36 AM
Ahah, it's pretty funny to see how people are afraid to read a book, so don't even think about manuals. Moreover, i never knew Audiobook was so popular.

I'm seriously thinking to take part into this contest, for some reasons:
1) It places us in real job setup
2) The novel seems to be indispensable
3) SF!
4) I have no job at the moment
5) Prizes are really, really interesting
and finally
6)I could improve my suc**** english :p

Nevertheless, i'm not fan about long descriptive text, but this is a good exercise.

EDIT: Well, i read the "inspiration page"+ the 4 chapters from "about page" , i have to say, i'm not fan about the concept, it's a bit boring
It seems EON is showing its age.

Good luck everyone

MCRO
10-09-2006, 11:05 AM
Dear all,

It's a pleasure to meet you.
My first post here on CGSociety - CGTalk forums.
I got in because I'm interested in the EON challenge - tentative for film trailer mostly.
I'm not a graphic artist, so I'm not working with GFX applications. I see my self as a team coordinator. I have some contacts that will help me on this tentative. http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon11.gif

I don't have any big hopes, just to gain some experience.

Thank you.
Best regards,
‘M’

JurajMolcak
10-09-2006, 01:12 PM
Hello there. I am in. Wishing good luck to everybody. With deadline hunting and imagination too :)
I am missing one detail, though: File formats for "trailer" milestones (?) Could anybody describe, please...

cheers,

mummey
10-09-2006, 07:06 PM
Its cool to see some new people here. I'm starting to like the Cold War aspect of this book; I feel that this should _not_ be dismissed as simple sci-fi novel.

This challenge is an excellent opportunity to reflect a work on our past as much as a possible future.

Bob3D
10-09-2006, 07:21 PM
Well, it's a brilliant book and I wish I had the skills to do it justice :blush: :banghead: .

martu
10-09-2006, 11:31 PM
thats realy strange: no deadlines for submissions, no frame size (for trailer i.e.), no frame rate, no final render size for stills ...
is it possible (better: conforming the rules) to build a team for the trailer challenge including just myself ????

challenge team ... plaese reply ...

cheers

Mibus
10-09-2006, 11:49 PM
is it possible (better: conforming the rules) to build a team for the trailer challenge including just myself

Yup :thumbsup:

SquishMe
10-10-2006, 12:35 AM
When I first read about the plasma tube, my impression was that it ran through the center of the chambers, along the axis. As soon as I got to reading about the singularity (and its mentioned MANY times later), I became confused. Now it seems, and anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, that it's the singularity that runs through the center/axis. With that in mind, where does the plasma tube run in relation to the singularity? Is it off to the side of it, so to speak? Or, does the singularity exist within the plasma tube?

Yes, I have exactly the same problem too. And I can't visualise the bore-holes or scaffolding either. :cry:

JamesMK
10-10-2006, 08:33 AM
Its cool to see some new people here. I'm starting to like the Cold War aspect of this book; I feel that this should _not_ be dismissed as simple sci-fi novel.
QFA - really good sci-fi should traditionally be much more than what Hollywood tries to make of it - see Tarkovskij's 'Stalker' and 'Solaris' for reference (although Soderbergh actually made a brilliant remake of the latter).

ScottC
10-10-2006, 09:54 AM
Wow...what a great Book Ad! Let me know when you start a new challenge.

BaronImpossible
10-10-2006, 12:16 PM
Moved house last week and got rid of about 2000 books. On Tuesday I went back to the old house to clear up and found one single book that I'd missed, lying half-hidden on the floor. It was Eon, by Greg Bear. I thought, that was a great book but I'll not be reading it again, so I chucked it out with the rest. Things like this always happen to me.

Still, I can remember most of it from 20 years ago, so it must have made an impact.

yanic
10-10-2006, 01:13 PM
This contest sounds cool going to give it a go, i going to have gto work off wiki to get a good visualization of the world of this book

Bungalo
10-10-2006, 02:26 PM
Holy freaks!
It's a wonderful book, excellent story and here comes a top challenge!

I just hope I'll find a time to join on this one

seadonghai
10-10-2006, 02:35 PM
I will join this project.How can I get this book?

Hiraghm
10-10-2006, 03:33 PM
No insult to Mr Bear intended, but I'd much rather do a trailer or scene from other SF titles. Like, Rendezvous with Rama, for example. I have to confess that the wikipedia description of "Naderites" being "conservative" leaves me cold. I like the idea of technologists vs anti-technologists, but the wikipedia entry makes it look as though Mr Bear has the two groups confused.

When I read in my email that the theme was a Greg Bear novel, I excitedly considered entering for the first time. But it's one I'm not familiar with, with a storyline I can't get enthusiastic about. For contrast, I've been working on a trailer (in my head) for "Fallen Angels" for a couple years now. I've also on my list a still scene of the "trial" in "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel". So maybe this challenge will inspire me to get off my can and get to work on them.

Neubius
10-10-2006, 03:36 PM
I will join this project.How can I get this book?

i got it of play > about 7 pound, but it'll arrive in 3 days so.... hmm must start reading it and stop just being inspired by other peoples pics!!

A

Lovas
10-10-2006, 04:31 PM
I hope to find some time to read the book and to participate. I enjoy reading SF but haven't read the EON yet - so this would be a good excuse to do so.

The fact that the challenge's theme is a a bit more restrictive this time doesn't bother me (I've seen much, much worse examples of competitions - that were so industry-stinking, unimaginative and restricted that it hurted...). I'm mainly interested in SF and Fantasy subjects and whatever theme for a Challenge would be, I'd try to find an excuse to express myself through one of the two creative fields, anyway. Needless to say, it has never been a problem - as anything can be turned into SF or F - as long as one uses some imagination and is familiar with one or both fields as well.

As I said I intend to read the book - but even if I were not, I don't think it would put me in a subordinate position to those participants who would. There's enough info about the content publicly available (the contest instructions, wikipedia...) to spring the imagination and push the artist in the right direction.

I don't see anything suspicious in the legal part of the challenge as well. The contract seems fair enough for both sides and, knowing some neccessary basics of copyright laws, I understand why it would be illegal to use the artwork for commercial purpose later (the problem is not in the book nor in the resulting illustration, the problem is in the fact that by participating in this challenge the participant officialy admits that his artwork is based on another artwork - and not on an idea for an artwork - as that's obviously one of the main rules of the competition).

To use the Star Wars analogy, if I made an illustration for my own sake - depicting a blond guy with a lightsword in the middle of a desert and describe him as Prince Altar Wegha, The Defender of the Kalaach Desert - Mr. Lucas would need a very good set of lawyers to prove that I've stolen something from him (besides the basic idea - that can not be stollen as we all know very well). If on he other hand if I entered a competition with the subject "Star Wars - The Eternal Inspiration" with the same illustration - I could not deny in the court on what other artwork is it based on.

Anyway - I'm even glad that this time the subject is more restricting in the right direction - so I hope this time we will see more good, quality, realistic, hardcore sci-fi illustration and less childish stuff (frogs, cats, ants, whatever... there's a strong line between fantasy and fairy tales - and I stopped enjoying the latter when I was 6 or so...) and even less "illustrations" by the omnypresent "philosophers" who want to be illustrators but were unfortunately born with two left hands or lack the right kind of imagination.

Even if I don't find time to participate this time (I strongly hope I will!), I'll try to closely follow the goings-on. And will definitely find the time to read the book. I can only thank to the CG Society for their yet another effort of the kind and for the opportunity to participate and/or enjoy quality work of other participants, to make new friends, help others and broaden own horizons in the field of SF.

And don't forget: "there are no good and bad themes - just good and bad artists" :) ...

Lovas
10-10-2006, 04:36 PM
(ignore this - double post...)

Phalanx3D
10-10-2006, 05:29 PM
I read through about 5 pages before I replied, so forgive me if this has already been said:


Why does the trailer get such a crappy prize?

Selina42
10-11-2006, 12:28 AM
I certainly dont see anything wrong with the theme of this challenge, because i do see the benefits of working to such a brief, but i am saddenned that the CG society appears to be increasingly more biased towards the fantasy art format. I'm slightly confused as to why this is -after all -its called the CG society and not the Sci-fi society. Many years ago, after a fine art degree i was increasingly disillusioned with the high art/ low art divide that exists within the fine art world, as ive always taken what i consider to be a truly post-modern attitude that all forms and expressions of art are potentially equally valid, and I think its a shame to limit whats considered stylistically valid or acceptable within a forum such as this, because thats a path that can easily lead to artistic stagnation. Perhaps the defenders of the status quo may disagree with my thoughts, but i do believe that the vast majority of artwork here is more likely to be given recognition if its of a fantasy/sci-fi style. Sadly, last comp round, i noticed that several very fine artists were disillusioned with the process (and of course i am aware that you cant please everyone all of the time), but i think the CG Society can certainly guard against this by clearly entertaining an open-minded attitude. After all, when those participating feel ostracized, surely this is as great a loss for this society as for those individual artists? For that reason, while i think this is a very exciting challenge, and will be watching with a lot of enjoyment (work prevents me from taking part), i do hope that in future the CGsociety will consider a less stylistically restrictive challenge.

That being said, good luck to everyone!

MrHobby
10-11-2006, 02:34 AM
I have never read the book, i know very little about the overview of the novel, i'm way out of my league when it comes to sci-fi, and i'm in!! when do we start?

jhasse
10-11-2006, 02:47 AM
I don't understand the challanges, plz can someone put in simple turns. thx

SquishMe
10-11-2006, 03:16 AM
I don't understand the challanges, plz can someone put in simple turns. thx

What exactly don't you understand?

Magnatude
10-11-2006, 04:43 AM
Looks like a great challange, gonna find the book and hack away at it.... just dont know exactly which of the challanges to do... hmmm...

Lovas
10-11-2006, 07:19 AM
I certainly dont see anything wrong with the theme of this challenge, because i do see the benefits of working to such a brief, but i am saddenned that the CG society appears to be increasingly more biased towards the fantasy art format. I'm slightly confused as to why this is -after all -its called the CG society and not the Sci-fi society. Many years ago, after a fine art degree i was increasingly disillusioned with the high art/ low art divide that exists within the fine art world, as ive always taken what i consider to be a truly post-modern attitude that all forms and expressions of art are potentially equally valid, and I think its a shame to limit whats considered stylistically valid or acceptable within a forum such as this, because thats a path that can easily lead to artistic stagnation. Perhaps the defenders of the status quo may disagree with my thoughts, but i do believe that the vast majority of artwork here is more likely to be given recognition if its of a fantasy/sci-fi style. Sadly, last comp round, i noticed that several very fine artists were disillusioned with the process (and of course i am aware that you cant please everyone all of the time), but i think the CG Society can certainly guard against this by clearly entertaining an open-minded attitude. After all, when those participating feel ostracized, surely this is as great a loss for this society as for those individual artists? For that reason, while i think this is a very exciting challenge, and will be watching with a lot of enjoyment (work prevents me from taking part), i do hope that in future the CGsociety will consider a less stylistically restrictive challenge.

That being said, good luck to everyone!

For me, on the contrary, the main reason to stay at the CGTalk forums and to join the 3D Society was the fact that the site was not biased towards fine art but towards high-quality, aestheticaly pleasing and technicaly strong, commercial-kind of illustration - not neccessarily from the two genres but with the visible dominance of both. The kind of visual expression that doesn't try to change the world but to offer people what they want to see (no, it is not something to be ashamed of!). Plus the fact that the competition is strong and that one gets mostly useful constructive criticism of one's work - instead of useless pleasentary and kindness (following the mentioned, imho wrong, post-modern logic that "everything can be art so everything can be a good art" and that "criticizing an artwork means criticizing the artist" - that way of thinking, if anything, is the sure path towards the artistic stagnation...).

As for the fine artists - there are loads of places like Deviantart or Renderosity on the net - with very wide criteria of what is a quality CG - so I'd kindly suggest them to try the luck there if not satisfied with the current direction of the CG Society. I hope this site won't turn into another Deviantart clone - a place featuring all kind of boring, fine-artistic garbage in enormous quantities, with criteria down to below zero and with people not having balls to criticize other people's work honestly and in a constructive manner, for the sake of "kindness" or for the fear of getting back "bad" comments for their work.

BTW it is not directed to, you Selina42 (even though provoked by your post, as cited above) - I must say I like very much the style and the technical level of the illustration in your CG Portfolio and I'd like to see more of your work here!

Selina42
10-11-2006, 01:07 PM
Hey Daniel!

-Certainly no offense taken and im all for a good artistic discussion! -And thanks for the very sweet comment!

Just to clarify a couple of points -when i said i was disssilusioned i actually meant with fine art! I'm definately not against Fantasy/ sci-fi art -and infact love it. I spent most of my fine art degree arguing the validity of other kinds of art with my tutors. Yet i was constantly met with the viewpoint that fine art classifies itself as somehow external and superior to society. Fine Art quests conceptually to query and restructure pre-existing cultural language and conventions. However its cultural commentary is essentially a modernist one. When Fine Art comments upon different forms within society it is either to mock these forms or improve upon them which is an attitude i simply could not reconcilliate myself with.
Alternatively Postmodernist art appropriates mass culture for its own ends. Certainly the introduction of postmodernist thought heralds a denunciation of modernisms dismissiveness towards mass culture. It restructures the “high” and “low” connotations so that high art and high culture no longer inhabits the superior position it formally occupied. Consequently, while Fine Art still attempts to critically evaluate contemporary society, it can no longer do so from its former pedestal. This hostility towards mass culture has also changed the pertinence of Fine Art, in that through separating itself from a position within cultural life, it loses its cultural relevance and connection to mass culture, therefore distancing itself from a wider audience. This role has now been filled by other medium that recognise they share the same world with all other aspects of cultural life, for example, film, comic books, and other stylistic artforms -all of which i feel have a far greater significance to society today (for the reasons ive stated above) than the fine art form. And i hope, also explains my meaning behind my 'postmodern attitude' comment.

So actually -Daniel while you clearly have a very strong love of the fantasy art form i have to agree with you there, because i take the exact same standpoint! My point isnt that 'everything can be art so everything can be good art'. My point is that potentially, every art form has the capacity to be relevant and used in a way that constitutes great art and therefore, why dismiss other art styles as less relevant, unless we wish to go down the same path towards irrelevance to society that fine art has sadly been travelling down for a while? To illustrate my point -i wouldnt argue that all comic books contain the greatest artwork in the world, but I believe anyone would be hard pressed to argue that Art Spiegelmans "Maus" is clearly one of the most stunning works of art created in the last few decades.
Also, i certainly dont believe that criticizing an artwork means criticizing the artist. I'm sure we can all agree that one of the best things about these forums is the strong constructive criticism and artistic discussion (such as this!) that you can expect to receive here -which i know i have certainly enjoyed. I have definately noticed, however, that some artists have been dissilusioned with the CG society, becuase they felt that certain forms of artistic expression were not considered as valid, (rather than their specific artworks.) And that is, at the end of the day, a dreadul shame -because i would hope there would be room for everyone here. To me the CG Society has the potential to be so much more than purely a fantasy art forum. CG stands for computer graphics and so i would hope the society feels its their duty to make everyone welcome, whos work falls under that umbrella.
I do think this competition is a great challenge for all the reasons you've mentioned Daniel. I for one, have always believed that the artistic style of an artwork should fit the brief, so i certainly have no problems with the concept of this challenge. But i would hope that in the future, the society would also look for ways to leave the way more open for a differing range of styles within a competition such as this as i think thats potentially allowing for a more exciting competition.

And hey -thanks for the comments -i love a good artistic discussion! -I always think being able to discuss our differing viewpoints in this way is constructive in of itself! And though i dont have time to take part in the challenge at the moment, i'll certainly drop in to see how its going! I'm really looking forward to seeing what you all come up with!

Lovas
10-11-2006, 02:22 PM
Selina thank you for your time and the interesting post. As I said your previous post was only occasion and not the reason for my previous writing. I'm glad that we both seem to have rather close viewpoints on the matter. Also congratulations for the impressive analysis in the first part of the post that shows your broad education on the subject.

I also checked your web page - the portfolio is impressive (no, I'm not being "pleasant":) ). Looking forward to meeting you in person next time I'm in London (if you can spare some time and are in the mood to continue this debate over a beer or two :), that is... )

Selina42
10-11-2006, 02:59 PM
Hey Daniel!

I'm totally up for that! You sound like a great person to discuss art with so hell yeah! Thanks very much for all your lovely comments -you clearly have a very broad understanding yourself so its a lovely compliment! Ive taken a look at your artwork myself -and i especially hope you do find time to take part in the challenge as i think your style would really work well in the context of this challenge and i'd like to cheer you on! -and when youre in London next you must definately give me a shout! :thumbsup:

Discoseven
10-11-2006, 11:30 PM
I think this is a great challenge and wanted to thank you for the opportunity. The people that have complaints should head over to the "Whiners" forum and vent their frustrations there. That way, we all aren't subject to the negativity. Have a great day and good luck!

jhasse
10-11-2006, 11:42 PM
What exactly don't you understand?

what it is the challenge exactly? What i have to do? Read the booK? o what this challenge is so confuising:eek:

thanks,

SquishMe
10-12-2006, 01:14 AM
what it is the challenge exactly? What i have to do? Read the booK? o what this challenge is so confuising:eek:

thanks,

You just have to make a beautiful image or animation based on the book.

1) Read the instructions here (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/instructions.php).
2) Read the book, or the excerpts found here (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/inspiration.php).
3) Enter the challenge here (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/enter.php).
4) Submit images here (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/submit_entry.php).

Good luck. :thumbsup:

cyphyr
10-12-2006, 03:15 PM
I have not seen this covered so appologies if it already has been. Regarding the Trailer chalenge, when I see these trailers in the movies a main element in the so and so presents and staring or presenting this or that actor. So the trailer might be:

Paramount
in association with
Working Title Films
present
EON
staring
Bruce Willis and Nicole Kidmen

This is a vital part of the trailer experience and I am wondering how we should translate this element over to our trailers. What are the legal ramifications and can we use big names at all.
Richard Fraser

elfling bard
10-12-2006, 03:59 PM
You stealed my Eon wording design! Damn you! :scream: www.eonsounds.com (http://www.eonsounds.com)

Good luck to all btw. Seem like a great challenge.:applause:

Srek
10-12-2006, 06:29 PM
I have not seen this covered so appologies if it already has been. Regarding the Trailer chalenge, when I see these trailers in the movies a main element in the so and so presents and staring or presenting this or that actor. So the trailer might be:

Paramount
in association with
Working Title Films
present
EON
staring
Bruce Willis and Nicole Kidmen

This is a vital part of the trailer experience and I am wondering how we should translate this element over to our trailers. What are the legal ramifications and can we use big names at all.
Richard Fraser



Why use real names at all? As long as you present the titles in an interesting and fitting way the exact words don't matter at all.
Cheers
Björn

jhasse
10-12-2006, 07:32 PM
You just have to make a beautiful image or animation based on the book.

1) Read the instructions here (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/instructions.php).
2) Read the book, or the excerpts found here (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/inspiration.php).
3) Enter the challenge here (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/enter.php).
4) Submit images here (http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/submit_entry.php).

Good luck. :thumbsup:

thanks you man, simple enought ja ja

see yaa

atdesign
10-12-2006, 08:23 PM
Interesting challenge, more than likely I not going enter but I do have a comment. Two of the categories, 3D scene and Film Trailer are well defined. The Illustration category leaves me at a bit of a loss, I see this as being two completely different things. One that depicts a scene from the movie and the other a 1 sheet concept (movie poster). The difference between the two may seem subtle but the concept behind them, the look, the construction and purpose are vastly different. One is an publicity vehicle, the other an advertising one. My view point comes from over 25 years designing and creating artwork for movies/TV advertising, I have done work for movie pitches as well.

I though it would be very helpful to the artists in the challenge if the category was more tightly defined. Just trying to offer an insight.

Mibus
10-13-2006, 01:04 AM
The Illustration category leaves me at a bit of a loss, I see this as being two completely different things. One that depicts a scene from the movie and the other a 1 sheet concept (movie poster).

It's deliberately open so people can do whatever they want :)

V_Shane
10-13-2006, 01:58 AM
huh, EON eh? Well, this leaves me cold, and unispired. I really dig alot of Greg Bear's books, and this doesn't happen to be one I've read (though I did see it on the stand new when it came out a WHILE ago) or have been interested in.
Ah well, I'll be waiting around again for the next one. I've got a ton of work to do anyway and don't have that time to invest in a long story, let alone compete with the others who are jazzed to work on the story.

Good luck everyone!:shrug:

caplette
10-13-2006, 02:27 AM
Wanted to pick up the book since I have not read any of his works and needed more references after reading the selections on the site, but I had some trouble picking up the book at my local store. To find my copy ended up going to three stores just to find one. So if you are interested in buying the book off-line then you might want to call the store or check availability online before driving because it might take up a lot of gas. Thought I should warn others.
Looking forward to people's interpretations. Thanks for the read.

atdesign
10-13-2006, 02:34 AM
It's deliberately open so people can do whatever they want :)

No problem with that, I was not suggesting you change your categories. Thank you for clarifying that.:)


.

tomt
10-13-2006, 08:37 AM
Greg Bear is one of my favorite authors, so great topic. I think he writes with great scene descriptions and atmospheres, lots of food for an artist. Amazon carries the book in stock,

http://amazon.com/gp/search/ref=br_ss_hs/104-2825455-4018314?platform=gurupa&url=index%3Dblended&keywords=Greg+Bear%2C+Eon

Blackheart6004
10-14-2006, 02:57 AM
I hate to break it to you guys for this.

The guy(s) who made the head should feel bad about himself.

Eventually, he ripped an image from DeviantArt regarding to http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/25546303/ and I was wondering that if you actually emailed him for permission to use his image for the contest even thought it says "Image credit: Sun Rise (c) nelson pimenta 2005" at the bottom on the front page.

I've already note him about his and waiting for a reply back to see if you got permission to use his image.

Nazirull
10-14-2006, 05:03 AM
I hate to break it to you guys for this.

The guy(s) who made the head should feel bad about himself.

Eventually, he ripped an image from DeviantArt regarding to http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/25546303/ and I was wondering that if you actually emailed him for permission to use his image for the contest even thought it says "Image credit: Sun Rise (c) nelson pimenta 2005" at the bottom on the front page.

I've already note him about his and waiting for a reply back to see if you got permission to use his image.

Im sure they did...or else mr primera would be all over Leo's a**e already!:bounce:

Taxman9
10-14-2006, 01:11 PM
This looks cool.:) A bunch of us Cinema 4D users are putting together a team for the trailer at the C4D cafe.

rufsketch1
10-14-2006, 07:31 PM
i never learned how to read :(. makes checking my posts for grammatical errors rather difficult :(.


lol. i definitely possibly might enter. i'm gonna see what quality of work i can produce using only free software :).

SilviaAriaans
10-22-2006, 11:31 AM
Just got the book in my own language (Dutch)... through the internet, as the bookstore said it's sold out and won't be printed anymore... Ordered the English one, but that one would arrive within (hopefully) 2 weeks. I will start reading the book this weekend for sure... Can't do promises yet about a concept : ) Good luck everyone!!