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gabe28
02-01-2003, 06:24 PM
Hi,
I've just upgraded my new computer from Win98 to Win2000. The reason is that it wasn't stable enough in Win98 with the 512 megs of RAM that I installed.

Anyhow, everythings working fine except that I just can't figure out how to wrap my mind around the whole networking thing. When I was using Win 98 I'd set up an ethernet LAN between my computer and my wife's Win98 computer so we could share a printer, files and internet connection. It was easy and pretty much set itself up once I installed the LAN card drivers and DSL software.

I can't upgrade her to Win 2000 for hardware and software reasons (she would've be able to play her beloved Sims). I've been struggling with getting the conection to work and I've had minor success but the bottom line is that .... I.... just.... don't.... get... it....

Does anyone know of a good resource online for walking total morons through the process of networking different Window's OS's?

Thanks.

jscott
02-01-2003, 08:02 PM
Hey dude,

I have that setup at my house. My system in Win. 2000 and the other two Win 98 systems are hooked up using wireless LAN. I don't think I've tried to share a printer yet.

It's been a long while since I set them up but I thougth all the sytems just had to be in the same Workgroup.

Sorry I haven't been in the system admin scene for a while. Ive been doing graphics for the last few years. This is kind of one of those things where I know just about enough about it go get mind working but it's difficult to try to remember what I did so I can explain it to someone else.

Anyway on the Win. 2000 system look under Start > Settigs > Control Panel > System > Network Identification > Properties

I belive each system should have a unique Computer Name and you should all be set to Workgroup where the Workgroup name is the same on every system. All systems are members of the same workgroup. I think the default Workgroup name is 'WORKGROUP'

-jscott

nimajneb
02-01-2003, 11:12 PM
I seem to remember there being an issue with Win2K Sharenames and Win98. Sharenames should be kept short (eight characters), because Win98 cannot see them otherwise. Aside from that, set up the following.

Win2k Box
Right click on Network Neighborhood.
Right clich on LAN
Make sure Client for MS Networks is there, as well as File and Printer Sharing. Make sure TCP/IP is loaded. Select properties. Set IP to static. 1.1.1.1 Subnet 255.255.255.0, gateway blank, workgroup ="Workgroup".

Win98
Rightclick on Network Neighborhood. Should list installed components (you may have to select properties in the right click menu, it's been a while). Make sure share files and printers is checked on. Make sure TCP/IP-"devicename" is installed for your ethernet card. Rightclick on it, set IP to static, 1.1.1.2, subnet 255.255.255.0, gateway blank, workgroup="Workgroup".

That should be it. You should now be sharing files and devices. Remember to keep sharenames short in the Win2K box to prevent issues with Win98. Other than that, you should be fine. If you need to hook broadband into this mix, you'll liely need to ignore the static IP instructions and go for "Obtain IP automatically", or DHCP. Your ISP should have specific instructions for that . Feel free to ad additional questions to this thread. I'll walk you through any problem spots.

gabe28
02-02-2003, 04:56 AM
nimajneb,
Hey, thanks for the info. One question before I try my your instructions. I do plan on sharing an internet connection but I have a static IP address for my web service. Should I just substitute my static IP for the one you suggested? Thanks.

nimajneb
02-02-2003, 03:57 PM
Ok, need to know how you're getting your static IP. You plug into the broadband with an ethernet card or USB? Is there a router or a network hub involved? For example, my setup is relatively simple.

Account, 2 Dynamic IPs coming from Charter Com. co-ax into home to
WAN connection, Motorola Cable Modem wires to
D-Link Fast Etherlink Hub (5 port) which wires to
PC1 & PC 2 setup with DHCP, obtain address automatically

Your case may be something like this.
DSL or Cable Modem from ISP USB to
Win2K box, which wires via crossover cable ether or standard ether to hub to
Win98 box ether.

In this case, under network connections on Win2K box, you'd right click on the dsl/cable modem entry, and enable internet connection sharing. This would set the ethernet card on the the Win2K box to the default IP Sharing config for Win2K (192.168.0.1, if memory serves). You'd then set up the Win 98 box to obtain IP and DNS automatically, from the Win2K IP (if entering an IP is required, which I don't think it is). In this situation, the static IP from the ISP should be on the modem, and the the Win2K box acts as a router for the 98 box. Make note however, the IP on the Win98 box is "not real" and therefore, games and other IP services that require talkback may not work because they may not be NAT (Name Address Translation) smart. Hence the reason for my setup above with the two dynamic IPs, both real, no routing involved.

gabe28
02-03-2003, 12:31 AM
My setup is as follows:

I have an ethernet Lan kit with a hub and two computers, each with a network adapter card (in case it matters, I'm using a Netgear 10/100 megabit LAN kit). The hub has both computers connected to it and my DSL modem. For connecting to my ISP (which is Earthlink) I use a software program called Winpoet. I'm using my computer (the Win2000 machine) as the primary connection. My wife's computer is the Win98SE machine that I need to file share, and internet share with.

Again, thanks for the help.

dvornik
02-03-2003, 01:17 AM
Either buy a router (and get rid of winpoet forever and be online ALL THE TIME on both machines)

Or buy a second NIC card, connect internet to it and use your first card and a hub (or a crossover cable) to connect your wife's machine to the internet through your machine using win2k's "IIS" - internet connection sharing or other NAT software.

Routers are $20-40 these days and there's no reason not to have one.

After that adjust user accounts and permissions.

good link - dslreports.com, they have a good networking forum with FAQ.

Sieb
02-03-2003, 02:38 AM
The problem here is that Win98 has no security, and 2k is a NOS (Network Operating System) with full security. You have to have the SAME username and password configured on both machines (a user in 2k that matches the user on the 98 machine) and you HAVE to log into 98 (eventhough its not really loggin into anything) otherwise 98 doesn't technically let you do any network related stuff (its only decent security). After this, it will work fine. The only problem that can occure is the Hub setup. I would strongly suggest getting a DSL Gatway router with built in switch. Linksys has plenty to choose from. This will put a hardware firewall between you and the internet and you wont have to worry about ICS (Internet Connection Sharing). Your internal network will be totally isolated and dynamicly IP'd (DHCP). I STRONGLY recommend this as I have seen quite a few people get hacked by having a straight connection to their DSL modem.

The entire process is explained (as well as with other flavors of Windows) at www.helmig.com (http://www.helmig.com).

dvornik
02-03-2003, 02:40 AM
Yep, residential gateway router with built in switch if you want to be formal about it. :thumbsup:

gabe28
02-03-2003, 03:17 AM
I'll look into the router option but I need to know one thing first. Will I still be able to run a web server from my computer if I go that route? I currently run www.sad-world.com from a partition on my hardrive. I'd hate to give up that capability.

Also, I don't thing I can get rid of Winpoet. As of last summer Earthlink started requiring it for connections. With their old method, I didn't need special software at all, I just configured my network with the appropriate IP addresses and such and the modem took care of the rest. I really prefered that method over using Winpoet but what can you do?

nimajneb
02-03-2003, 04:12 AM
Okay, here's my take on the Hardware Gateway products out there.

Pros: Security. Cheap. Able to share out on IP to several PCs.
Cons: NAT's not friendly to games. Many ISP restrict use of routers (they want you to pay for the second IP), and their use can get you sanctioned.

Every router product I've seen has some way to allow you to open ports on the router to a specific machine, so you could run your web server.

Not familar with Winpoet, but if Earthlink is being a pain, there's a lot of other options for ISPs that aren't as restrictive. The aforementioned dsl reports site is a very good one for finding the right ISP for your needs.

gabe28
02-03-2003, 02:31 PM
Turns out I don't need to use Winpoet afterall for my connection. I tried an app called Raspppoe and it connects me to the internet just fine.

Regardless, I've completely failed to get internet sharing and file sharing accomplished with my setup. I'm going to follow the advise of those here and elsewhere online and just buy a dsl router. It seems what I'm trying to achieve is problematic even for those who know a lot more than I do about configuring networks. And besides, I guess I really should get the extra protection that the router will provide (especially since I run a web server).

Thanks again for all the help.

gabe28
02-05-2003, 05:10 AM
OK, I got my DSL router. As reported, setting up my internet sharing and file sharing between my computers was a breeze. I'm very pleased.

Now, I have one remaining problem. I can't figure out how to get my web server to work the dsl router. As I stated at the beginning of this thread, I run a web server from my computer.

I use Xitima for my web server.
The router I got is from D-Link. It's their model DI-604

The configuration panel gives the option of enabling web server capability but I can't figure out how to configure it to use my web directory. Anyhow, if anyone knows anything about this setup, that would be cool. Thanks

nimajneb
02-05-2003, 05:52 AM
If your D-Link Gateway is like my old one, then you'd have to get it up with the virtual server feature. Using the HTML control panel for the gateway, in the advacned features, there should be a table of ports and IPs that the gateway can use to forward http requests (port 80) it should be as simple as entering your IP and the port you run your webserver on. The gateway will then pass any requests it gets for port 80 to your webserving machine. Check your docs for the specifics of your gateway, but my old one was a DI-704 so I bet they're similar.

gabe28
02-05-2003, 07:09 AM
Damn it. I'm really getting to my wits end here.

OK, can someone put in REAL SIMPLE words how to assign computer permissions on a Win 2000 network?!?! From my Win2000 computer I can see and access my wife's Win 98 computer and drives. She can see my computer in Win 98 but cannot access it. When she clicks on it, it simply says she doesn't have the permissions needed. I'm not talking about the drives being shared. I shared them. She can't even get into the icon for my computer to see the drives or the printer that is shared. I've been trying for hours to figure out how to give her the permissions she needs but I JUST DON'T F***ING GET IT!!! I'm not stupid, really I'm not, but what the HELL am I missing here?!!?

gabe28
02-05-2003, 07:28 AM
Slight update to my sharing problem. Now when I click on the Win2000 computer from the Win 98 computer I get a dialog box requesting a password. I have no idea what the password is or where I can set it. Where is this stuff configured?!?! Why is this so HARD to figure out?!

nimajneb
02-05-2003, 12:02 PM
Two ways you can fix this.

1. Safe way.
Select the shares in question (printer, folder, whatever). Goto the sharing tab. Click permissions. Make sure everyone is in the share permissions list. Give all rights (full control). Go into admin tools (Control Panels), Computer Management. Goto User & Groups. Make a new user account for your wife. Now when she logs in, accesses the share, she should have to enter a name and password. Possibly, here windows networking logon will supply the name, so make the User account match the name of her standard windows logon.

2. Dangerous way.
As above but instead of creating a new user account, enable the Guest account. This should allow her to come in (and anyone else) without a password. Your gateway will act as your security. This is common considered a bad idea, but it is very practical.

gabe28
02-05-2003, 07:50 PM
nimajneb,
Thanks for the reply. The problem is that when even after taking the steps you described, my wife still cannot get to the drives I have shared. She can see my computer in Neighborhood Network but when she clicks on it it give her a password prompt (see the image below for a screenshot of the prompt I'm talking about). There is nowhere to enter a username and I don't have any idea what password we're supposed to use. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong here?

http://www.reload-music.com/network.gif

Sieb
02-06-2003, 01:54 AM
As for the webserver, there should be an option for DMZ (Demiliterize Zone), this allows one machine on your network to respond to all web requests. But if this is your home machine, there should be an option for Port Forwarding. Here you can forward port 80 (http) to the IP of your server machine on your network. This will forward all requests for websites to that machine.

As for the sharing.. Does your wife get a login screen when she boots up win98? If so, is she loging in with a password or just hitting esc? For win98 to let you access shares, you HAVE to log in as usless as it seems. Also, as I said before, the user of the win98 machine HAS to exist on the win2000 machine, otherwise it won't authenticate. This user is the one from the win98 login screen, this username and password have to be the on each machine. You can add this user and password in the control panel of Windows2000. www.helmig.com explains this also with pictures.

Also, from your picture, does your windows2000 machine have shared folders? Or did you just share the entire C drive? The location in the dialog box is the root administrative share of the C drive which I dont think is possible unless the user is loging in as the Administrator, which isn't possible from a 98 machine IIRC.

gabe28
02-06-2003, 02:11 AM
Sieb,
Yes. YEESSSSSS!!!!! All my wife needed was to have a user named and password configured. Presto!!!! Now we're on and sharing all kinds of files. Printers too.

My router does indeed have a Demiliterize Zone option. I'll try it in conjunction with the http port 80 option and see if I get anywhere.

Whew!! Almost got this all figured out.

PS- OK, quick edit here. I figured out how to configure Zone Alarm to allow my server and router. (I just had to add my static IP to the permissions). Anyway, I'd still like to know if running Zone Alarm is worthwhile now that I have a dsl router.

gabe28
02-06-2003, 02:18 AM
Sieb,
OK, I think the DMZ was the answer!! My server is online. If someone could confirm this by going to www.sad-world.com (to see my outdated cg... hehe) I would really appreciate it.

Now.... I previously used Zone alarm for my firewall. Do I still need it or is having a dsl router suffecient protection. I ask because now that I'm using the router to broadcast my webserver to the world Zone Alarm wants to block it. I'm sure I can configure it not to block my server but I don't want to hassle with it until I know for sure if I should continue using it. Thanks.

fleedawg
02-06-2003, 03:05 AM
If you have the router w/ the hardware firewall, Zone Alarm is basically redundant, and can actually cause more problems, so I'd advise to take it out.

dvornik
02-06-2003, 06:06 PM
Hardware firewall doesn't monitor outgoing traffic.

Sieb
02-07-2003, 01:20 AM
I tried your site link, but it asked for a password.

Port forwarding is not needed if you are putting the same machine in the DMZ. This can cause some problems. Since this is your home computer, you might be better off using just port forwarding of port 80 since thats all your machine will respond to. The only issues I have seen crop up with using a firewall is sending stuff via AIM, and game server stuff.

As for zone alarm, if a machine is in the DMZ, and its your personal computer from the sound of it, its a good combo since all traffic will be forwaded to that machine. But if you just port forward, the router will block all other traffic and so your zone alarm will just alert you of port 80 traffic hits, not very useful. Zone alarm is alot more usefull if you don't have a router as the hardware firewall.

gabe28
02-07-2003, 01:29 AM
Sieb,

Thanks for the reply. You've been a great source of info for all my recent upgrades woes.

I think I'm just going to stop hosting a web server on my own computer. It doesn't cost that much to do it elsewhere and it won't take up all my personal bandwidth.

Sieb
02-08-2003, 02:32 AM
Glad to be of service!

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